User talk:Jaguar/Archive 7

Township articles, and issues
Perhaps you're getting tired of being questioned about these, but the concerns people are listing above are a prime example of why creating a batch of WP:Kittens as you've done is a problem. I didn't count exactly, but scrolling through your last 500 edits I see a bold N next to most of them. When you create articles in batch like this you can't possibly know much about each, or have the opportunity to correct them, or cite sources or follow up on any of that. I fear you're being too dismissive of people's concerns above.

My point is simply to say, slow down. Prefunctory stubs like this don't provide much useful information, and at worse mislead. They also increase the workload on everyone else trying to not only fix, but check your work, since there's no possible way you could verify it at the rate you're creating pages. You should also be aware of the bot approval group which includes large semi-automated creations. And while you say you're using Chrome to do them, you're clearly copy pasting a template from somewhere, I think this is veering into that territory. So please, fewer high quality articles would be better than many many stubs. You might also consider consolidating these similar regions into one large article for each area. That would make all of these concerns much easier to address. Shadowjams (talk) 21:20, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Shadowjams, and thanks a lot of that message there. You know I think you're right. I might have been a bit too dismissive with some of my speed issues and I apologise to everyone if I have been, but I have pushed aside a couple of warnings because of the speed of my article creations in the past because I knew that I was creating all these articles for a good intention. I'm simply starting all these Chinese townships so that any user with the knowledge of China (not me! :-D) can expand them, there are thousands of red links ready to be created, and I am up for that task.


 * Regarding your concerns, I think I will slow down for a bit and look back on the 10,000 townships I've created. There are only a few mistakes in those articles, and 90% of the mistakes came from errors in the list where I got the red links from, they are not typos made by me. I have little knowledge of China, so I don't know if I am making these mistakes. I will do the best I can to fix them!


 * I have a question anyway - I've heard of the bot approval group but I don't understand what they do and how I'm going to interfere with them. It's a bot group and I'm not a bot! My article creation is 100% manual and I don't use a script or template, nothing but browser tabs. Quality is my main concern. Thank you very much for your concern, I'll get using AWB soon but I'm very busy this week as I'm leaving school for the last time this week. It might have to wait at least another week. Kind regards, Jaguar   (talk)  20:21, 16 May 2012 (UTC)


 * There was a discussion a long time back, and a policy came of it. That policy is Bot_policy. "[A]ny large-scale automated or semi-automated article creation task must be approved at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval....While no specific definition of "large-scale" was decided, a suggestion of "anything more than 25 or 50" was not opposed. It is also strongly encouraged (and may be required by BAG) that community input be solicited at WP:Village pump (proposals)." I had no idea you'd made 10,000 such stubs.


 * Gees. Are you going for some record? There's no award for creating lots of articles. I think you really need to seek approval before you embark on any more mass creations. Shadowjams (talk) 01:41, 17 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Jaguar says he's been authorised to do it. But I wonder if whoever authorised him to do this knows that the articles he's creating are not properly referenced and that some of the internal links are also wrong.
 * Jaguar, could we please have the link to the discussion where you say you were authorised to do this? Thanks, Azylber (talk) 10:11, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Here we go. I had my autopatrolled status taken away a few months ago and when I asked for it back, I agreed that I could create a number of stubs that strictly contain one reference, which meant that I could stay out of trouble with creating articles. Jaguar   (talk)  15:28, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Jiangwan
As per multiple comments above, here's almost a random example of what's wrong with many recent stubs: Jiangwan. (Jiangwan, Heilongjiang). Harbin is not a province; Yilan County is a county, not a district; accessdate = means that the reference will show with today's date (i.e. the the date the reader looked at the article, and not the date you looked at the reference); "pushpin_map_caption    =Location in Fujian" is not appropriate for a location in provinces other than Fujian. "Jiangwan" is far from being a unique place name, so one (especially one who is by now has so much experience creating place name articles!) needs to disambiguate. Having a "?" instead of the name in Chinese characters is not helpful. A zh.wiki interwiki is missing, although it seems pretty much every township has a zh.wiki article by now. And for categories, having just a single Category:Township-level divisions of Heilongjiang (with over a thousand units, I suppose) is not enough; if we're creating articles for townships in bulk, we probably ought to parallel the structure on zh.wiki, where they have cats such as zh:Category:依兰县行政区划 (which would be Category:Township-level divisions of Yilan County for us). Cheeers, -- Vmenkov (talk) 03:11, 16 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Vmenkov. As I've said above, most of these province mistakes were not created by me, but indeed they were on the list where I create the articles from the red links. Some of them might be wrong, like Jiangwan as you've stated above. Addressing your concerns, I'll see if I can add a interwiki link to the zh.wiki to User:Jaguar/Sandbox/3 (that's where I create all these articles!). I will also use AWB later on in the week to correct most of these mistakes, such as replacing with a template that actually works! I'm sorry for replying to all these messages and not taking any action so far, but I'm leaving school forever this week and I'll be away from Wikipedia for a few days. I promise as soon as I get back I will look at these Chinese townships I create and I will see what I can do. Thank you for your concerns, I hope that I will put more quality in my articles in the future. Kind regards,  Jaguar   (talk)  20:37, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Jaguar, congratualations on your graduation, and best wishes with whatever's next in your career! As to the "list where I create the articles from the red links", I assume you mean lists such as List of township-level divisions of Heilongjiang. I don't see anything incorrect in that list: it correctly lists towns and townships in the appropriate prefecture- and county-level units, and it does not call cities "provinces" or counties "districts", nor does it menions Fujian anywhere :-) It also has the correct Chinese name for each town(ship), so it can be looked up on zh.wiki as needed. Anyway, take your time to improve what needs to be improved... and take care! -- Vmenkov (talk) 22:11, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for your message! I will be going to college in September, taking a course in English Literature and Language for journalism. I will get to fixing those dead links and anything else using AWB, but I see that I've just been reported to ANI, so I'll get to it in a couple of days or so. Regards, Jaguar   (talk)  15:08, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

ANI
Please see Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:47, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I've just left school forever and partied hard and I come back to this!! Jaguar   (talk)  15:05, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

YGM
--Tomtomn00 (talk • contributions) 16:40, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Lets work on a solution
OK there are a number of issues to be resolved. Lets have a list of them.

Issues

 * 1) Wrong province named (in internal link to list of districts)
 * 2) Dead external link
 * 3) Wrong province named in external link (in Chinese characters)
 * 4) "?" in lang-zh template
 * 5) accessedate not set.
 * 6) No interwiki
 * 7) URLs do not work in articles

Possible solutions

 * 1) AWB could fix this
 * 2) Need to understand what the link should be.
 * 3) Need a table of Chinese names of provinces vs English names
 * 4) Need a table of Chinese names of districts vs English names
 * 5) Best to set this when we replace the external link.  Simply using "Subst:" would solve this
 * 6) Can be done if we have the tables mentioned above. (Or add an interwiki template leading to zh.wiki)
 * 7) Need to deactivate Google Translate and link the ref to the original Chinese website

Please add to the above.

Rich Farmbrough, 18:41, 17 May 2012 (UTC).


 * Thanks a lot for making a solution, Rich. I've added to the above. Jaguar   (talk)  18:46, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll take these solutions on board the next time I create a bunch of articles, in the mean time I will get using AWB! I'm busy tomorrow and maybe the next couple of days, but don't worry, I will get to it this week. Regards, Jaguar   (talk)  18:47, 17 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Rich, the ones where he put google translate aren't just wrong because of the use of google translate. The URL's are actually wrong themselves, as they don't point to the correct page within the Chinese website.
 * I hope the list of issues I gave at WP:AN was/is useful. I took me a while to review lots of articles and to find all these errors and make the list. But be aware that there might also be other errors that didn't discover.
 * Azylber (talk) 22:59, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
 * There are no more errors. That's the last of them. Jaguar   (talk)  11:23, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
 * how do you know? Azylber (talk) 11:51, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Everybody has pointed out all the errors in all my articles. I'm going to take a short rest now because Wikipedia is doing my head in. Jaguar   (talk)  16:05, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Autopatrolled removed
Per the ongoing discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents, I have removed your autopatrolled rights again. I would strongly advise that you do not request autopatrolled again until this matter has been resolved to the general satisfaction of those who have presented evidence. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 14:49, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I knew everybody at ANI would gang up on me like bullies on playground... what else could I expect... Jaguar   (talk)  15:27, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Jaguar, nobody is ganging up on you but it's important to maintain the integrity of Wikipedia. Just slow down with your article creation and take a little more care with references etc. Best, ► Philg88 ◄ star.png 15:42, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I know, thanks. If I create one more article I know that I'll get in trouble or maybe banned but I'm going to begin fixing them now. I've already made a start. Regards Jaguar   (talk)  15:44, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

One of your most recent edits, at the time of writing, was to Xingshou. Despite this, you left behind:


 * Text saying "(Chinese: ?)"
 * A reference which is a Chinese site though you have said elsewhere that you do not read Chinese.
 * An infobox heading for a Chinese transcription of the name; with no transcription
 * An infobox "transcription language" heading, linked to "Chinese character"
 * An infobox "transcription type" heading, also linked to "Chinese character"
 * An infobox "settlement type" of "Subdistrict", though the lede says Xingshou is a "township-level division"
 * An infobox "Prefecture" heading, with no corresponding value
 * An infobox "District" heading, with no corresponding value
 * An infobox "District" heading linked to "County (People's Republic of China)"
 * A reference access date using
 * Use of Category:Changping District, unsupported by anything in the article

If this is how you leave an article after fixing it, I think WP:COMPETENCE is likely to come into play. Please take time to listen to what people are telling you here, and restrict your edits to those where you have community consensus. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:41, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
 * There is another nascent problem here with the absence of Chinese characters in stub articles created by Jaguar. According to WP:MOS-ZH it would be legitimate for an editor to remove the Chinese characters in List of township-level divisions of Beijing since they are no longer red links. However, to then add the Chinese back to the stubs is a whole mountain of work because of the homophone issues with pinyin. ► Philg88 ◄ star.png 18:06, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I was hoping to do them one at a time. Please don't think that I'm not leaving behind anything. Thank you for making a list there, it'll be helpful for when I begin to fix my articles in the future. Jaguar   (talk)  20:37, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Jaguar, FYI your reference in the Yangfang stub points to a list of subdivisions in Anhui not Beijing.► Philg88 ◄ star.png 08:54, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for telling me. I've just fixed over 50. Jaguar   (talk)  10:12, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

red links
Please remove the statement, at the top of your talk page, which says:

"it is found that my red link destroying career is not considered a problem"

Current discussion at ANI shows that is no longer the case. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:19, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Likewise "I've been 'authorised' to create them", on your user page Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:22, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

✅ Jaguar   (talk)  20:41, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Hmm... maybe this is my award for surviving ANI?? Jaguar   (talk)  20:39, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

May 2012
This is your last warning. The next time you make personal attacks on other people, as you did at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. Comment on content, not on fellow editors. GiantSnowman 16:23, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well that admin should not have personal attacked me! I've got to stand up for myself in life. Jaguar   (talk)  16:24, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * There's a massive difference between "standing upf ro yourself" and telling someone to fuck off. GiantSnowman 16:26, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I can't believe an admin can get away with something like that. Jaguar   (talk)  16:28, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Another editor has already suggested they strike it; there was no need to react like you did at all. GiantSnowman 16:30, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * For starters, I wasn't the one who wrote: "Oh no you don't! You're not deleting my hours of hard work! I won't let you!" And I don't consider calling someone "whiny, pouty" as a personal attack, whether it's true or not. At any rate, I don't mind if you want me to fuck off or if you think I'm a prick, and I wonder how devoting edits to that will leave much time for fixing up articles, but that's not really my concern at this point. (As an American, I don't have a sense of what it means to be called a prick, anyway, and at least one dictionary seems to equate it with anything from a bastard to a motherfucker ... Britishisms generally delight me but here I am just confused.) / ƒETCH COMMS  /  01:13, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You called me a "whiny, pouty, child", Fetchcomms. And you're also meant to be an admin. Jaguar   (talk)  09:58, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Another query about mass-produced stubs
Hi, I had a look at some earlier edits (from last year) and those have raised concerns too. It appears that you created a lot of Spanish stubs, citing a "source" which doesn't actually mention those topics. It would be very helpful if you could explain the situation here. If there are any other problems which haven't yet been identified by other editors, it might be a good idea to own up now - keeping quiet about problems makes them harder to fix and generates ill-will. Good luck with your exams! bobrayner (talk) 11:37, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! I've got seven left to do. Yep I've added my comments to ANI. Jaguar   (talk)  17:35, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi Jaguar
You've got email Penyulap  ☏  12:56, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thanks, but I'm afraid I will have to leave. I'm being kept under a close eye by ten different people and I can't do anything. Creating articles was my real purpose, but now I can't do that. Regards Jaguar   (talk)  17:35, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

WAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIT
Hey Jaguar, don't do it, no more China stubs, please, we're drowning... there's eight and a half thousand of your babies that need your love and care, feed them first... Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 17:47, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I've heavily objected on the ANI thingy. --Thine Antique Pen (talk • contributions) 17:48, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * My god, I only created 12! :D Jaguar   (talk)  18:56, 28 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Jaguar, after I read your decision to leave I wrote a few words, meant well, to post here. When I came back and saw you'd created another 12 pages, I couldn't help but think you do make things hard. --92.6.202.54 (talk) 19:25, 28 May 2012 (UTC)(formerly: User:92.6.200.56)
 * 92.6.200.56, I want to thank you for those kind words. They really meant something to me. You have been the only one in that ANI discussion who is understanding, and knows that other people were very hostile indeed. I have read and re-read that statement you made because it means a lot. I have done my best to improve this encyclopedia but I have failed recently. I know it really is time for me to leave because I can't do anything any more. I don't want too much attention and I want to leave quietly if possible.
 * I created those 12 extra articles for an example to show the people at ANI that I could create a higher quality version on the Chinese townships with Chinese included. I'm sorry if it was the wrong thing or if anybody took it the wrong way. Best wishes, Jaguar   (talk)  20:20, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

He Jaguar, just wanted to stress that, although I partly disagree with you on what the "minimum" should be for a non-Roman-language stub, that does not (and never does!) colour my total opinion of you. It is just a point where we disagree; I don't know you IRL and I know you have done many more things on wikipedia (you're just 1 hours behind me in terms of time zone, so it is time to go to bed after this for me). What I do know is that you didn't do it for yourself, but for the improvement of wikipedia; and that's the common goal we all have; and all that matters here! I have gone through one of your newly created articles with the chinese transcription (Luowang_Township), and tried to find the corresponding Chinese article. That is a challenge as the disambiguation page gives >10 options (兴隆乡), but (google translate and) I think I got it right, and it is worth it. If you look at that page (edit is just at the same location), you'll see that based on the statistical number (zh:中华人民共和国行政区划代码, Administrative division codes of the People's Republic of China, which amazingly does not have an English language article yet), all kinds of preset info is given (including the gps location!), also a template creates a sufficiently in depth statistical link. In other words, there might be something really interesting half-automated possible! Now the big question is: how to approach such a thing. Are the present articles useful, or is it simply easier to delete them and start again? That is a technical, but also an emotional decision, especially for you, but it might be worth considering it: taking a few test articles to get it right; create the useful templates (I don't read Chinese, maybe user:Anna Frodesiak is willing to help); discuss at "Wikiproject China" to make sure you have backing and "come back with a vengeance". I hope this is something you'll consider if salvaging them by fast improving the present articles with interlang/goodref etc (Literally noone has reacted to you bot suggestion...) turns out not to work. Anyway, Best of luck, whatever choices your making, L.tak (talk) 22:41, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Look here, tiger cub, I've just spent five minutes of my life on one of your latest brood, Wangtun Township; until someone finds something better I think this is the source for nurturing your litter, in conjunction with Administrative divisions of the People's Republic of China: per this article it goes Provincial level - Prefectural level - County level - Township level - Village level; this NBS link does the same, you can just keeping on drilling down; but Wangtun was a malnourished runt with no County level; also if you look at Yuwangtai District this is empty and needs populating with its townships before the townships are created; you are like Hercules at the Crossroads or Raphael's Knight, but your choice is between taxonomy and taxidermy! Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 01:17, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, in the lede of many articles, you can skip stating the prefecture-level division to shorten things. I personally only include the prefecture if a county name is ambiguous within the province or if the parent division is a district. Obviously, there should be zero skipping around in the infobox. GotR Talk 06:00, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

The comment on my last edit got cut off - it should have continued "Please be careful with Chinese language stuff if you don't speak/read Chinese and please please please do not use Google Translate for English WP content!" Best ► Philg88 ◄ star.png 06:43, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

(Update Administrative division codes of the People's Republic of China article created. ► Philg88 ◄ star.png 09:24, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * This discussion leads to interesting things (e.g. the division code article), but is not a very good venue for further discussion (especially now Jaguar has indicated he has completely had it with wikipedia). Feel free to join in at Talk:Administrative division codes of the People's Republic of China... L.tak (talk) 14:41, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

I'd like to give you a very special gift



 * Your massive editing to improve the project cannot go unnoticed.
 * Wikidragons are a rare and powerful breed who live by the motto "No Guts, No Glory !".
 * Thank you for demonstrating how important it is to never be shy of your responsibilities and that learning never stops until the day you die. You have set a fine example for us all in this regard. Penyulap  ☏  00:57, 3 Jun 2012 (UTC)


 * The Wiki is a way to multiply your efforts. When you come back you will find new and better ways to do the same thing - over unity editing! Rich Farmbrough, 02:56, 3 June 2012 (UTC).

WikiDragons are rare and endangered, probably because of their celebrity status, where a normal editor can make 1 mistake in 100 and those mistakes are spaced apart by a week, nobody notices, but when you or Rich make one percent errors, it's like all hell breaks loose. Take the Bart Simpson approach to Wikidragons, you're young, you are showing more promise and talent than most, and if a few little Chinese villages get burnt to the ground and the peasants are screaming, Hey ! let's not forget those villages were messed up when you got here. It's all in a good days work.

On the more serious note, what cannot be forgotten and has NOT been overlooked by the wise amongst us, is your exemplary attitude to being responsible for your edits and learning fast. That is something a LOT of editors lack, and you show them the way, setting the example which should be followed.

No Guts, No Glory. I like your style. Penyulap  ☏  00:47, 3 Jun 2012 (UTC)