User talk:Jameboy/Archive 2

Reg Ryan

 * Not sure it is absolutely necessary to reference exaxtly where you got his full name. The Matthews book is still listed as a source. Djln --Djln 23:01, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I am not over arsed, I just don't think his middle name is so significant that it needs a specific reference. I have written article on other WBA players Davy Walsh and Jack Reynolds if you are interested in checking them out. Djln--Djln 23:32, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Geoff Horsfield
Hi thanks for your message. I left them in as it doesn't really matter either way, whether they are there or not. Leaving them in does no harm, nor does leaving them out. When I edit, I cut and paste the sources from here using the "common usage" templates, and leave the layout as it is now on an individual line in the article, (which I used to amend so that it was rolled into one line in the text) because it is much easier on the eye to read and/or edit when the article is edited later. Thanks, hope that helps, and of course there is no reason why the lines not used could be edited out. ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 13:57, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Favour
Hey Jameboy, can you spare ten minutes and criticise/support/oppose List of Ipswich Town F.C. managers which is at WP:FLC at the moment? No real rush, just wanted to draw your attention to it. Cheers! Oh, and good luck this weekend yourself. I won't be there, but in spirit I'll be there....! The Rambling Man 16:56, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Comments added. --Jameboy 21:49, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Derby County revert
I didnt mean to revert your edits on Derby County.LeRAM 19:30, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, no probs. Cheers. --Jameboy 21:21, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I've removed the fansites per WP:EL - I'll keep an eye on it. Have a good break.  The Rambling Man 15:03, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Super job. --Jameboy 15:10, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Use of dashes in Nigel Quashie
I have seen your message left on the talk page for User:Orangina2 regarding dashes. Can you explain why "endash" must be used rather than a straightforward hyphen? I have read WP:DASH but this doesn't explain the reasons. Can you enlighten me? Daemonic Kangaroo 04:46, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Have a look at this in conjunction with WP:HYPHEN (it's immediately above WP:DASH so you can just scroll up). Hyphens indicate conjunction, e.g. re-dress, non-linear, hard-boiled. The dash has a number of uses, but in terms of football articles it is usually for a from...to range or a match score, so some examples might be pp78–79, 1981–82 season (confusingly, linking to an article named with a hyphen!) or 2–1. If I'm wrong on this please shout, but all the featured articles that I've seen follow this convention. --Jameboy 14:28, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

re: Dean Bennett
Thanks for letting me know about the error, I'd always thought the italics were part of the MoS but I was clearly wrong! Cheers. Simon KHFC 18:22, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No worries, I thought exactly the same myself until relatively recently. --Jameboy 20:19, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Ipswich Town F.C. seasons
Hey, when you get back from your break and get some time, could you have a look at Ipswich Town F.C. seasons for me? It's up at WP:FLC now so I'd appreciate some comments! Cheers. The Rambling Man 17:15, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Chapters etc
Hey Jameboy, Rambling Man here, editing from an easyCafe (so not logging in). Thanks for your interesting comments on the Seasons page, and more importantly, thanks for your support! Your point is fair but rather curiously I keep seeing debates all over the place as to whether Wikipedia shouldn't descend into a sporting almanac. Hmm. Who knows. So, to your other question, that of the chapters in Cite book references. You've made another good point. I tend to add the chapter if it's the first time I've gone into it but indeed, if the references are used out of order then that scuppers the idea. To be brutally honest, if you've got the book and the ISBN and the year of publishing then it's probably overkill to add the chapter in as well. Just my opinion. Have a good one, and thanks again. 193.82.16.50 09:49, 18 September 2007 (UTC) (easyRambler)
 * Cheers for the advice. The article is still very much in progress so I'll try out the different reference styles and see what looks best. Ultimately I hope to get the article peer-reviewed so I'm sure it will all be sorted out then, anyway. --Jameboy 10:46, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow, I just looked at his managerial stats. I know he's been in charge of ropey teams, but his stats are bad...! 193.82.16.50 11:11, 18 September 2007 (UTC) (easyRambler)
 * Have to agree, although I haven't verified them yet. As an aside, I noticed from here that Bobby Robson was once England B coach, seemingly around 1978-80, which I thought you might want to mention in the article. It seems quite relevant, especially as he went on to pick some of the same players at full international level. I'd be happy to add it in myself, but thought you might have some additional supporting material in books etc. that would put it in context. Cheers. --Jameboy 12:59, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Darren Moore
Hi. I've found loads of errors on Soccerbase to be honest. The correct figures for Darren Moore are on http://www.neilbrown.newcastlefans.com/bradfordcity/bradfordcity.htm. If you actually tot up the figures on Soccerbase, his league appearances for Bradford should be 61 (and not 63 showing how incorrect they can be) - 17 in 1997-98 and 44 in 1998-99, but they've missed a game against Tranmere in 1997-98. Peanut4 14:52, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Bryan Robson
Just noticed you've been doing quite a bit of work on Bryan Robson - possibly towards Featured Status? I've extended his managerial career at Bradford and added some references. If you want anything else, let me know. But since his stay wasn't particularly long, I don't think there's an awful lot more to add. Peanut4 00:43, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Cheers for your help, any additions are welcomed. Would like to get it to at least Good Article status, if not featured. I'm less than halfway through the autobiography though, so still a long way to go. One thing you may be able to help with is getting more images of Robson to add to the article. The one in the article is pretty awful...that tracksuit! --Jameboy 00:59, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Good work with the Robson article. Just one thing I've noticed. I've decided against changing it and thought would bring it to your attention but I'd changed all the dates to one format, probably e.g. October 16, 2007, to standardise it with the one that comes out in the Infobox. Peanut4 21:56, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Good point, cheers. As Robson is English I've changed all full dates to UK format e.g. 16 October, 2007. The date format can be set in user preferences for those that want to see it round the other way. Trust this is OK. --Jameboy 22:28, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Ai that's fine. I just get the feeling it's probably best being the same throughout one article, though I'm not sure there is a right or wrong format. Peanut4 22:35, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Article ratings
Hello mate, I replied to your question on my talk page to keep it together. Hope you're alright. The Rambling Man 17:32, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar
Just wanted to say well done on your edits to football articles, perticually your work on the Bryan Robson and West Bromwich Albion articles.

Liverpool importance
You were quite right to revert my change of importance to Liverpool F.C. under the current assessment system, my apologies for that. But for reasons I have listed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Assessment I feel this should be changed. John Hayestalk 10:44, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I totally agree with your comment, and thanks for making others aware of it. John Hayestalk 11:37, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Star thanks
Thanks for my star. It was no problem. Looking at his talk page, should have reported him to WP:AIV Doesn't seem to be active now so don't see the point. If he comes back again, just do it. By the way i have finally fixed the text leaking problem! (i think) Woodym555 20:38, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I must say i am honoured to be the recipient of your new-found generosity!!! Thanks again. Re-reading my earlier comments i can also see how they could be misunderstood! Thanks for understanding. Right, now we have to start implementing them across the templates..... Woodym555 21:21, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes it should and yes it can. I will move it now, what to call it? Template:Football manager ? Woodym555 21:46, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I know, i can't think of anything either, i had football manager listee ? LOL, really can't think of one that isn't convoluted. Woodym555 22:06, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I go for 6 months being the limit for managers. I think only main managers should be listed in the template and list caretakers in the main manager list if you have one. We should probably go for some game limit to notability. I could probably put something whereby a * would show up if you filled in a caretaker parameter, i see little use out of it though. I will try and think of a name. If it is long, oh well. Woodym555 22:20, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Ron Atkinson
To be honest, i think it looks bad, it also compresses the size of the manager templates so they get split onto more lines than normal. The succesion box issue is one for the WP:FOOTY project as a whole to make. I see it is an unneccessary duplicate, but that is my personal opinion. Woodym555 15:00, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Good point, I didn't notice the size difference (one eye on the TV). I'll change it back. --Jameboy 15:07, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

West Brom and GA/FA
Hey Jameboy, sorry not to have gotten back to you sooner, but here's what I think about the articles you've discussed on my talk page. Hope that helps. Do let me know if you need any help with any of it! The Rambling Man 16:39, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * West Bromwich Albion F.C. - this is in very good shape, I'd certainly pursue FA following an immediate peer review. Dare I suggest you look at Ipswich Town F.C. for some things, like turning the record section into prose, generating a graph of league finishes, proper fair use rationales for images (such as the old crest), citations for the particularly notable players etc?  But a PR will pick theses up.
 * List of West Bromwich Albion F.C. managers - good stuff, but you probably should look elsewhere for stats on early managers rather than Soccerbase. Also, Mogga's stats need updating to current.  But otherwise it's nearly there.  I've never had much success in PR'ing a list so I'd take it to FLC and notify your Wikiproject chums to come calling.
 * Bob Taylor (footballer) - work on WP:CITE for citation placements, not convinced by fair use rationale for the DVD shot, usually if the guy's still alive you can get an appropriate image. It's certainly GA quality with a couple of tweaks, so another PR for GA in mind would be appropriate.
 * Bryan Robson - yes, as you say, some work to do, you'd need to clear off all the citation needed's as a minimum. Getting a player article to FA is tough, took me long enough with Sir Bobby...  Anyway, keep up your hard work there and take it to PR with an FA in mind.

Bryan Robson
Hi, just to let you know, i've added a little to the article about his progress with Sheffield United. I have also added some references. Make any adjustments to it as you see fit (formating etc..). Keep up the good work. hawksworthm 07:45, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Excellent, cheers. I'm still plugging away with the article, making slow but steady progress. One thing that we could do with at some point is to create a Sheffield United F.C. managers template. You're probably aware of the new standard template, of which Template:Middlesbrough F.C. managers is as good an example as any - ignore the West Brom one as I need to fix and update it. You're welcome to pick this task up if you have time, otherwise I will get around to it eventually. --Jameboy 09:27, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi, I made the Sheffield United F.C. managers template you were wanting. I've added it to the article. hawksworthm 12:21, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Good work there. I made a couple of corrections to the dates. I'll tidy the WBA template up tomorrow, then the Robson article will be a lot tidier. --Jameboy 19:51, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

List of Ipswich Town F.C. players
Hi Jameboy. I hate to 'spam' but since you've been so useful in the past and generous with your time, I've come calling again to see if you'll help review and push List of Ipswich Town F.C. players to featured list status. It's recently been completely overhauled, so I've kicked off a peer review which I'm hoping you'll contribute to. Thanks in advance, The Rambling Man 16:51, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * If you know your Monty Python you should know that spam is both lovely and wonderful... I'll go have a look. Hoping to do a similar list of Baggies players but it may take me a while to do. --Jameboy 16:55, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Spam spam spam spam spam etc Indeed. And thanks for correcting the fundamental flaw!  That's what happens when you transpose stuff from a sandbox in a hurry..! The Rambling Man 17:03, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

The Moston Menace
Probably, but he'll be getting more expensive with every goal. At the start of the season I'd have laughed if someone suggested he was worth £2 million. Looks to have been a beneficial loan for all parties. Oldelpaso 22:12, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Villa Park
Hi Jameboy. I couldn't help but notice that you have Inglis's book on stadiums. Is there anything on the early years of Villa Park? Me and Everlast are trying to get it up to FA and i think some of the sources are a bit unreliable, especially for the history section. Could you take a look and swap some of the bad ones for Inglis if available. Any text you could add to it would be greatly appreciated! Thanks. Woodym555 17:35, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll have a look a bit later on tonight. --Jameboy 17:51, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That is great. Can any of the Heroes and Villains facts be verified by the Inglis book? I think it was based off it anyway. Even so, thanks for all your time and effort. On another note the managers template now accepts the "manager" parameter. Just add a list after it and it should work! Thanks again. (and now i should probably go to sleep) Woodym555 01:10, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Me too... I'm templated out. I have more to add on Villa Park but it's a start at least. I'll check on the above facts soon. --Jameboy 01:14, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Whenever you feel like it would be great! We've still got a history article to clear up as well! Yepo, i'm all parsed out, i think the template standardisation is going great, good job! I will see what i can do with AWB tommorrow. (i have only just downaloaded it). Have some nourishment to keep you going and to thank you. (Now i really am going to get forty winks) Woodym555 01:18, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Heroes and Villains facts
Confirmed, refuted or otherwise by the Inglis book:


 * It has been the home of Aston Villa Football Club since 1897. Confirmed
 * Villa previously played at Aston Park from 1874 to 1876 and Perry Barr from 1876 to 1897. Confirmed
 * The pitch was initially surrounded by a 24 feet (7.3 m) wide concrete cycle track ... Confirmed ... and a cinder running track. Can't find any mention of the cinder running track
 * When first built the stadium could house 40,000 spectators must of whom would stand in the open. Confirmed
 * It is one of the largest behind-the-goal stands in Europe. Book is too old to confirm or refute, due to interim developments


 * It was officially called the Aston Lower Grounds and it was situated in the former grounds of a Jacobean stately home, Aston Hall. Confirmed
 * The site had been used in the past as a Victorian amusement park, and also as a fishpond and kitchen garden belonging to the owner of Aston Hall, Sir Thomas Holte (the origin of the naming of the stand, the Holte End). Confirmed
 * This plan (to substantially expand the ground) was scrapped due to the outbreak of the First World War. Confirmed The running track was removed in 1914 ...Confirmed... when work started on the Trinity Road Stand and the ground was squared off. Only have the completion date of Trinity Road (1922). Can find nothing about squaring off.
 * When it was completed in 1922, ... date of completion Confirmed ... The Trinity Road Stand was considered the grandest in the land, complete with stained glass windows, Italian mosaics and a sweeping staircase. It was considered to be architect Archie Leitch's masterpiece. Unable to confirm or refute any of this, other than a mention of the sweeping staircase.
 * ...the Holte End was not covered until 1962, and the old rounded roof of the Witton Lane Stand was not replaced until 1964. Confirmed
 * Around the same time Villa Park was made an all-seater stadium in response to the requirements of the Taylor Report. The Holte End was the last stand to conform to the report when it became a 13,500 seater stand which was the largest End stand in Europe upon completion. Book is too old to confirm or refute
 * In June 1996 under soil heating was installed. Book is too old to confirm or refute
 * The North Stand, which used to be known as the Witton End, was built in the late 1970s... Confirmed ...and is the most dated of Villa Park's stands. Book is too old to confirm or refute due to interim developments


 * The highest attendance recorded at Villa Park was 76,588. This was recorded on 2 March 1946 in an FA Cup 6th Round tie against Derby County. Confirmed, but a recent source should be used instead, due to the possibility (however remote) of this record having been broken.

--Jameboy 15:00, 2 November 2007 (UTC)


 * That is absolutely perfect. Exactly what we needed. The more reliable the better and Inglis is one of the most reliable out there. Thanks for all your time and effort!! It was very much appreciated. Woodym555 16:03, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Wimbledon
As per your edit summary, here's a little something I created, especially for you:

Cheers. The Rambling Man 12:44, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the barnstar! And any more templates you'd like, please do shout.  The Rambling Man 12:54, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Present
We will just ignore your support of the Baggies for the moment. ;) Thanks again for all your work Woodym555 16:07, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * He has always said that he is a Villa fan although primarily because of the "beauty" of the stadium. (admittedly the one before Doug had a go at DIY). As long as we don't source non-neutral statements as though they were coming from a neutral source. I think the facts that we have sourced to him are fine. I think providing the link is good enough which was partly why I added it. Inglis is not associated with the club and he isn't a primary source. I think he is preferable to H&V, which I think copied him anyway. I am trying to locate the book he wrote about Villa Park but it is rare. I think his greatest obssession is that of architecture and Leitch in particular. Woodym555 18:01, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

navbox changes
The border should have gone now. It is part of an attempt to have the VDE/Show/hide links the same colour as the title. It involves complicated code. It isn't working on my comp. Is it working for you? I am talking to someone about it at the moment, trying to work out a way forward. Woodym555 22:11, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Update:The change has been reverted and it is being worked on. Woodym555 22:15, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep, border has gone now. Cheers. --Jameboy 22:28, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The colour fix has been implemented now. The show/hide/VDE links are the same colour as the title and it is so much easier to see now, especially on the blue ones! Woodym555 01:03, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * "Impressive. Most Impressive." --Jameboy 01:11, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Lloyd Dyer
Thanks for providing the cite. I had no doubt that it was true but such assertions always need to be supported by a reliable source. Keep up the good work! --John Maynard Friedman 13:59, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * No probs. I do generally source my edits but I was a bit slow with that one! --Jameboy 20:20, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Priestfield
Well I never knew any of that, so thanks for adding it in. And no, I have no idea what a "smoking concert" is..... :-) ChrisTheDude 21:39, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

West Brom GA
Hey, sorry I've been out of touch on this, I'm back on it. Did you still wish to run a peer review in parallel with me making comments for GA? The Rambling Man 13:32, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I've added some comments here. Address those and then perhaps let me know when you'd like me to do the GA review!  All the best... The Rambling Man (talk) 00:28, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

WBA 24 years unbroken thingy
Hi, happened to notice your edit summary regarding citing longest ever spell in the top flight. WP:OR says 'Research that consists of collecting and organizing material from existing sources within the provisions of this and other content policies is encouraged: this is "source-based research," and it is fundamental to writing an encyclopedia.' IMO, if you referenced the longest-ever spell to, say, the FCHD West Brom page, which shows finishing positions for every season, it would be consistent with source-based research as per the above quote, and therefore explicitly not WP:OR. You'd only be making explicit a verifiable fact contained in a reliable source.

Also, talking of edit summaries, this wasn't funny ;-) cheers, Struway2 (talk) 17:38, 18 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Cheers, I will probably do what you suggested. Sorry about the Bruce thing, it was a bit wicked of me! Although it looks like he's definitely going anyway. --Jameboy (talk) 18:06, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

List of Everton F.C. managers
Hi Jameboy, just wondered if you could cast your eyes over List of Everton F.C. managers as it's up for peer review with a view to taking it to WP:FLC. Thanks in advance for your time! 08:30, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Now at FLC, would be grateful for comments etc. Cheers! The Rambling Man (talk) 17:55, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comments here. I've responded there accordingly... Cheers! The Rambling Man (talk) 09:14, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Jack Dorrington
Hi, apparently Category:Date of birth missing and similar do go on the talk page rather than the article, don't know why. I'll put it back, cheers, Struway2 (talk) 08:41, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. That is a bit odd though. Thanks for letting me know. --Jameboy (talk) 19:59, 21 November 2007 (UTC)