User talk:JandK87

Election graphics
Hi, firstly welcome to Wikipedia. The graphics you added to the Irish elections articles are very nice. There are a couple of issues though, 1) You have misspelled Independents as IndependAnts, 2) Could you change the Fianna Fail colour to green to match its party colours? 3) Can you add the outline of Northern Ireland like the constituency maps - File:Carlow-Kilkenny (Dáil Éireann constituency).png, I believe this is the convention. Thanks, Snappy (talk) 17:40, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for your kind words. I'm terribly embarrassed to find I misspelled Independents. One misspelling on the original image got duplicated to every other one. I'll fix that as soon as I can, though to get them all done might take a day or two.

As for the colours, FF's party colours are green and orange/gold, I decided to use the alternative colours so that it would be easier to distinguish it from the various other parties that use green. The fact that the maps require different shadings of each colour only complicates matters. Also considering the Anti-Treaty Sinn Féin/Republican groupings which preceded FF are depicted in green, I thought the alternative colour was a better means of setting FF apart once it began its political life in the first 1927 election. It is clearly labelled "Fianna Fáil", so I would hope there is no confusion.

And as for Northern Ireland, I found that no matter what colour I shaded it, it was difficult to distinguish it from the colours of Independents or any minor parties on the maps. Even leaving it white made it look like it was simply an extra constituency. It was something I mulled over for a while before deciding that, strictly speaking, it was not necessary to include it on the maps. There is also the issue that more space is saved on the images without it.

I will change the FF colours if it's insisted upon, but for the reasons above I would prefer to leave Northern Ireland out for the time being.

Thank you. JandK87 (talk) 18:31, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I saw your reasons for FF's party colours on the 2007 ge talk page after I posted here, and that's fine with me, there are alot of parties that use green as their colour. No rush with fixing the spelling error, just as long as you are aware of it. Snappy (talk) 18:42, 17 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I've fixed the Independents, took less time than I thought it would. Is it all right then to leave the North out for now as well? I will have a look at it again to see if there's anything I can do, but I tried a lot of things before removing it so I'm not sure what would work. If I receive further queries about it, I'll add it back in, but for now I think the maps do their job. What say you? JandK87 (talk) 18:50, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
 * There is no need to include the North, if it causes problems as you said. You fixed the spelling of Independents on the bottom of the map but it is also misspelled in the smaller font on the top of the most right hand map! Another issue is the 1923 general election, you have Sinn Fein listed but De Valera and the other Anti-treaty people campaigned and were elected under the Republican banner. This should be changed. Also how about creating a map for the 1918 general election, it was a British election but since it led to the First Dail in 1919, it would be nice to have one for completeness. Keep up the good work! Snappy (talk) 17:13, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you Snappy. It was with the biggest of facepalms that I realised my second independent mistake this morning. I'll fix the 1923 election, good point. And as it happens I'm working on the 1918 election at the moment, hope to have it ready soon! Thank you for your help.JandK87 (talk) 17:25, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Another spelling mistake in the text under the map in the infobox - "Percentage of seats gained by each of the three major parties, and number of seats gained by smaller parties and independants." I've corrected some of them so far. It's probably one word you won't mispell again! Snappy (talk) 08:39, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh you can be sure of that! Yeah I realised that mistake too. Thank you for helping out with it, I was going to go through them all today. Finally finished the Irish elections (until next year, at least). I'll be on the lookout for other Irish politics articles to contribute to, and I have some embryonic ideas for certain things that I'm still fleshing out (I think for example the Irish componants of the 19th century UK elections could do with some elaboration) and if there's anything you know of that I could lend a hand to, I'd be more than happy to. JandK87 (talk) 14:04, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, the 19th century Irish election articles need some work. Also, if you have the time (and inclination), you could do maps for the historic Irish constituencies from 1918 onwards. I have been adding election results to them, but they all lack maps. Since you have already done the maps of Ireland from 1918 with the parliamentary constituency borders in them, it would be a matter of creating a map for each constituency with it highlighted. It might be best to use the same colours and style as the maps for the current Irish constituencies. Snappy (talk) 18:52, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
 * That may take some time all right, but certainly it's a good idea. My Ireland maps are not quite as hi-res as the other maps used on Wikipedia, such as the Carlow-Kilkenny map you linked at the start of this page, but I don't suppose that matters. I'll adjust them to look just like the others in colour and style.

EDIT: I've put a test map up for Carlow-Kildare, let me know what you think. Looking at the lists of old constituencies, I can see a few problems. The first is that some old constituencies would have been abolished and then brought back in a different shape (for example, Cork North East, which changed shape entirely during before being replaced). I'm not sure what to do about them. The same is true of current constituencies, but with regard to them I was thinking it would be easy to just have a photo gallery at the end of the page showing the boundary adjustments that occurred in those constituencies' histories. The image at the top would be of its current shape. There's no such solution for the now-abolished constituencies, though. JandK87 (talk) 19:01, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It looks very good. As for constituencies that changed shape entirely, either a photo gallery at that end as you suggest for current ones, or the infobox box could be changed to display 2 images. Snappy (talk) 22:30, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Aye, good idea. It will probably take a while, but I'll stick to it. Snowed in at the moment anyway so not a lot else to do! I'll start with the 1920 - 1923 constituencies and work my way up to the present, and then go back to deal with the 1918 constituencies, there are some issues with the UK constituency info boxes that I haven't quite figured out. JandK87 (talk) 22:57, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The issue with the Former UK constituency infobox is that it doesn't allow maps at present. I had a look at the infobox but its a bit complicated for me and is related to the Current UK constituency infobox, so I'm reluctant to change it at present. Maybe BrownHairedGirl can have a look at it. I noticed you added an infoxbox for the Irish 2004 EP election, it was correct, the only issue was that there was no shortname template for the Union for Europe of the Nations (UEN), which is why you were getting the red link error. If you look at the UEN one I did, you'll see they are simple to create, if you need to do one for another party in future. Snappy (talk) 20:43, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
 * On the contrary, I'd figured out the red link problem (the correction would have been in the edit after the one you saw) but had another problem - I took the 2009 infobox and adjusted the info accordingly, replacing Sinn Féin with the Green Party, but despite this the finished result still had Trevor Sargent's name appearing with Sinn Féin and its colour. I don't know enough about infoboxes to fix this, so I reverted it back to the way it was before I did anything. Since I saw this message and replied, I've figured it out, though. So it's back and correct now.JandK87 (talk) 20:49, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Constituency maps
Hi, and please let me welcome you to wikipedia too!

It's great to see the maps you are creating for historic constituencies. The are a very welcome (and long-overdue) addition to Wikipedia, and huge congrats on bringing your skills to this neglected area.

Howver, I do have a few questions/suggestions.

The first map which I spotted was File:Carlow-Kildare former Dáil constituency.png, and I was wondering whether the map shows the boundaries of the two counties, or the boundaries of the constituency as defined in the 1935 Act? Having checked, it looks like is the actual boundaries, which is great! Well done.

That brings me to my next question. For clarity, please could you state in the image's blurb which of the Electoral Acts defines the boundaries depicted, and when those boundaries were in force? I know this is a piece of pedantry, but it would help to clarify exactly what is being portrayed. Carlow-Kildare only existed between one set of boundary revisions, but for constituencies such as Sligo–Leitrim which went throughy several big boundary shifts, it would be very helpful to clarify exactly which incarnation is depicted.

On the same vein, it would be a good idea to use filenames which include an indication of the dates covered by the map. For example, instead of File:Carlow-Kildare former Dáil constituency.png, name it File:Carlow-Kildare Dáil constituency 1937–1948.png.

Second question relates to contents of the map. Would it be possible to show in some way where the highlighted constituency crossed the county boundaries? I have no idea how to present that info, or whether it would be too much work, but if it was possible to do it some visually clear form without being a huge extra hassle, it would be very useful data.

Anyway, please count the above as suggestions-for-improvements rather than as any sort of criticism, .... and congrats again on all your good work. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:22, 20 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much for your welcome, and I'm happy the maps are to peoples' liking. As you may have seen just above this section, Snappy and I were discussing how best to include maps for the old constituencies. I uploaded Carlow-Kildare as a sort of test run, but there are still some issues to figure out before implementing maps for every constituency. Thank you so much for your feedback, it's very welcome. I hadn't given much thought as to the file name as it was only a test, but I'll fix it and all future file names accordingly.


 * As for the blurb, do you mean the info that comes with the picture itself (as in, on its Commons page) or info on each image's caption in each article? If it's the latter I wouldn't think such info is needed, as it would all be contained within the article. The image is simply for illustration.


 * As for illustrating where the constituency borders cross county borders... that would certainly be quite difficult to do, I can't immediately think of any way of doing it either, but I'll think about it and we'll see what we can do.


 * I'm not sure how long all this will take me, it's a busy time of year after all, but I'll keep at it.


 * Again, thank you for the welcome and the encouragement. It means a lot!JandK87 (talk) 22:48, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Fine, if the county borders thing is too much grief, we can leave it as one for the wish-list, along with what I'd really like if Santa was feeling generous: constituency boundary layers for Google maps or Google Earth.
 * Sorry I wasn't clear in my suggestions wrt the blurb. In the articles themselves, I think it would be enough to just have the caption say "Carlow Kildare boundaries 1937-1948", but in the info on Commons be a little more verbose: "Carlow-Kildare Dáil constituency 1937–1948 as defined by the Electoral (Revision of Constituencies) Act 1935". That clarifies both the scope and the source.
 * Hope that helps. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:22, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh yes, absolutely. The current Carlow-Kildare image will be replaced with a proper version very soon. And you're right about Google maps. Maybe if I ask Santa too he'll listen to us? *begins letter* -- JandK87 (talk) 23:34, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

UK Ireland Elections
Hello there. I was just about to start creating a 1885-1910 ireland constituency map when I happened across this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Irish_UK_general_election_Dec_1910.png which is exactly what I needed. If it's okay with you, I'd like to use this as a base map to map all results back to 1885. I notice you have 1910 as a userpage, and I'm curious if you are ready to upload to wikipedia. If you'd like I can assist in creating pages for all Ireland elections back to 1885. If we can manage to work together and tag-team this, I may be able to push back to 1868, before which I loose interest unfortunately, though I might be convinced to go back to 1832. Please share your thoughts. Nickjbor (talk) 09:17, 16 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi Nickjbor, sorry for the late reply, been unwell a lot lately so my contributions to wikipedia have suffered. Getting back on track now though! I've already created election maps going back as far as 1832, and I was planning to create pages for each UK Ireland election. I'd started with the 1910 as you saw, though my work had to stop there for a while. I'm back on it now though, currently improving upon my existing 1921 - 2007 maps and getting one ready for 2011.


 * I would love any help you could give me for the UK Ireland elections. I'd like to create articles that are more than just an election box, a map and a brief summary, and as you can see from the userpage I've been trying to include info on seat changes and the like just to have something worthwhile on the page. Once I've finished re-doing my modern election maps I'll be turning my attention back to the UK elections, and hopefully uploading the December 1910 page proper.


 * I'd love to discuss it with you, so I'll give you my email/MSN, give me a shout!


 * - JandK87 (talk) 16:16, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Irish general election 2011.png
Hi there, someone has left a note on Talk:Irish general election, 2011 regarding an error in your Irish general election 2011.png map. Snappy (talk) 21:32, 3 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you for alerting me. All fixed now. And there I was thinking I had finally created an errorless map! - JandK87 (talk) 21:50, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * It's only a minor thing. Well done on creating all the Irish general election maps. Looking at them, highlights things like how regional (south and east) Labour traditionally have been, something you dont really get from text but is very clear from the maps. They are a great addition to the articles. Snappy (talk)
 * Thank you, I'm very glad to have been able to contribute something substantial to these articles. I'm presently (albeit not as quickly as I'd like) working on UK general elections in Ireland pre-1918. I can't promise they'll be of Featured Article quality but I hope they'll prove interesting and worthwhile as well. - JandK87 (talk) 22:14, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Non-free files in your user space
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