User talk:Jane023/Archive 3

The Signpost: 31 December 2012

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GLAM/smarthistory
Have you considered joining WP:GLAM/smarthistory? I think it will become a very good example of how Wikipedia and an outside educational non-profit can work together to improve both websites. Anything you'd like to contribute would be appreciated! Smallbones( smalltalk ) 21:38, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Of course - I meant to, and then got caught up in the Your paintings dataset. Jane (talk) 09:05, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Just a thought - maybe update a series of women painters from one or both projects in time for Women's History Month.  I'll see if I can identify a group on Smarthistory ...   Smallbones( smalltalk ) 14:58, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Good idea - there are lots of women on the Your paintings list as well. Jane (talk) 16:58, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 07 January 2013

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Zanobi di Benedetto Strozzi
 Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved.
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The Signpost: 14 January 2013

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Apology
Sorry if it sounded like I was having a go at you earlier. I guess I just saw red mist when somebody suggested getting rid of one of my favourite and most useful areas of Wikipedia. Ritchie333 (talk)  (cont)   20:53, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * That's fine, and believe me, I can sympathize. I am just asking people to please take a moment and look at the results of this AfC project. I really think there is something wrong with it. Jane (talk) 20:59, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for January 17
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The Signpost: 21 January 2013

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Thanks, correction (?)
Jane,

Thanks so much for The Angelus. This is exactly what the GLAM/Smarthistory project needs. I made 2 changes - one just a link correction. "prayer TO the Angelus" sounded wrong to me, so I did a bit of reading in the sources you included and came up with my best guess for a correction.

Note that I'm not Catholic and the mysteries of that religion remain mysteries to me. My previous encounters with the Hail Mary are highlighted by the following:

Hail Mary! Full of Grace Notre Dame's in 2nd place

So clearly my "correction" might be wrong!

Thanks again.

Smallbones( smalltalk ) 21:36, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the copyedit and compliment! I got into it mostly to do with the fascinating financial story, which I am still planning on working some more on when I get the chance. I noticed the article on droit-de-suite needs some wiki-love (odd because those of us who are into Visual arts on Wikipedia should know all about the history of this stuff). The influence on Dali during his schooldays was serendipitous - I had no idea, and now I keep seeing a praying mantis when I look at the woman in the picture. Sadly, the basket turns out to have been a coffin after all - xrays have been performed, something Dali wanted to have done in his lifetime. I am not Catholic either, so feel free to hack away at the religious theme - for some reason pictures of working folk praying were very moving to the 19th century public, and it would be interesting to find out why. Jane (talk) 21:54, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

links - re your comment
I think that's where the community need to judge where ext.links are advertising or good calls of where to go next. We could use a commons cat but that might be tricky if there is no picture. smarthistory? I must find out more Victuallers (talk) 09:54, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Aren't we the community? I see nothing wrong with making the link. I suppose we could ask for links to the holding institutions (and where there is none, then a link for the PCF). I am thinking here with my hat on as organizer, since I honestly don't see how else we can track the articles. Asking people to slap a template on a talk page is fine for hard-core Wikipedians, but frankly, newbies have no clue what that is. Or should we limit the contest to just the die-hard Wikipedians who regularly visit the project page? That's fine with me, since then we will get a lot less "chaff". Jane (talk) 11:51, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 28 January 2013

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Disambiguation link notification for February 5
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The Signpost: 04 February 2013

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Progress over at Today's articles for improvement
I was reading an old conversation you participated in, and I thought I'd mention how much progress has gone on over at Today's articles for improvement. If you missed it, an RFC was held and concensus was established that the TAFI content should be placed below the DYK content. We will be launching the feature on the Main Page shortly, and the Main Page sandbox shows it will look. Participation on the talk page is always welcome. -- Nick Penguin ( contribs ) 04:38, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the note, it's nice to see this developing. I still think there should be a game element though. That makes it more fun for people to participate and serves as an extra motivator to join in the conversation. Jane (talk) 23:58, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for February 12
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Category:Lists of artists by biographer
Hi, I just started this. Am I missing any that you know of? Johnbod (talk) 20:37, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Nice work! Looks like you found all the ones we have. I don't think there is a list of Bryan artists, but this would be useful to have to. Jane (talk) 23:57, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 11 February 2013

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Notification of discussion
A few months ago, you participated in a discussion on Wikipedia talk:Did you know about Gibraltar-related DYKs on the Main Page. I am proposing that the temporary restrictions on such DYKs, which were imposed in September 2012, should be lifted and have set out a case for doing so at Wikipedia talk:Did you know/Gibraltar-related DYKs. If you have a view on this, please comment at that page. Prioryman (talk) 22:07, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I will respond there, thanks for the link. Jane (talk) 22:19, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 18 February 2013

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The Signpost: 25 February 2013

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A barnstar for you!
Thanks! Jane (talk) 07:00, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 04 March 2013

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Commentary
It's actually nice to see that people here can still carry on a discussion from opposite viewpoints and not have it comes to blows or have third party interference from policy. I've not met you on site before, although to be fair most who still edit do so within certain spheres of exclusion/inclusion, so that is not altogether unsurprising. In either event, I thank you for the well thought out replies to my posts, since as I said it is getting harder an harder to find people who can be civilly engaged here. TomStar81 (Talk) 00:19, 12 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks! You brought up several important and relevant points, and I agree that Wikipedia is dying. I feel the reason is not the increasingly exclusionist policies however, but something much more simple - the amazing increase of mobile and use of film such as on Youtube. Wikipedia is working hard to improve the mobile experience, but I for one hate to edit on my phone. If you look at my edits, most of what I write is in article space in the spirit of "get it done", but I have recently been working more on outreach projects because I deeply feel that the "new article creation" process is seriously messed up, and I need help gathering the sum of knowledge on just Haarlem, not to mention the rest of the world! I don't think people are necessarily inclusionists or exclusionists here - I think the vast majority of "vets" like to edit their corner of Wikipedia and don't ever see the broader discussions. The question is how to get more people from the suffocating "newbie" stage where each edit they make is policed, and get them into the free-and-easy "vet" mode, without running the risk of major vandalism to the encyclopedia. It's all about trust, isn't it? I have talked in real life to dozens of Wikipedians who have made at least one edit, but who never noticed the donation button, the extra languages option on articles, or even the central notice banner - perhaps they developed a blind spot for extra screen spam from the early days of the internet, or perhaps the place where they work uses an intranet in such a way they no longer notice - who knows? Many Wikipedians devote all their time to these "cosmetic" corners of the screen and get very insulted if users haven't paid attention. If you have trouble finding civil Wikipedians in your corner of the world, maybe it's time for you to stop looking at the more contentious areas of Wikipedia for a while, and go back to what makes you happy about editting? I like resurrecting stories from the murky depths of archives and museum depots, but I occasionally step into the modern era and find myself slapped with copyvios as soon as I cross the magic 1913 copyright line. In order to keep sane I regularly go back to my list of forgotton-but-encyclopedic artists from Haarlem. Jane (talk) 08:11, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Well I used to alternate between military history and certain fictional realms here, but fiction is arguably the most discriminated category of material on here, so these days I just stay away. I used to take pleasure in long term R&D work, but the standards for featured content are so far up there now that I have trouble appeasing everyone. Consequently, I usually just stay off the site these days. As for cosmetics, you may be on to something there, since our decline began around the time we switched to our currently used default page view option from the old monobook (I think) option. Perhaps the aesthetics have defeated us? Only time will tell. TomStar81 (Talk) 09:36, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Personally I care more whether an article I created gets translated into another language than whether it gets a bump up in "stub-start-A-B-C" status. I only use those talk page templates when I am working on a project for tracking purposes, and they are pretty messy to use for that. I don't believe I have ever properly read any one of the featured articles - they are usually quite long! If you are interested in Military history you should attend one of their meetups or try organizing one. I have met many polite Wikipedians who are pretty heavily into ships, for example. I agree fiction is difficult around here with all the non-fiction lovers around, and I have ignored a few requests for help on fictional books myself - I prefer non-fiction, but I do think the work should be done, just not by me. Jane (talk) 10:37, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 11 March 2013

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Gib DYKs
Hi Jane. Thanks for your support regarding the Gib DYKs! You can find plenty of articles yet to be written here if you're interested :) --Gibmetal 77 talk 2 me 12:08, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the link! I will contribute a DYK for anything "Gibbish" that comes my way. The more I read about it, the more I want to join the project. Jane (talk) 12:16, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Interesting find on the Pieter van de Velde painting! Thanks again for your support :) --Gibmetal 77 talk 2 me 12:47, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks - I am hoping that someone can verify it's not a fantasy building in the foreground, but a true-to-life painting of a historical harbour. Jane (talk) 13:40, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Vrouwenhuis
Hi there. BlueMoonset asked me to do a formal review on this DYK because of the Gibraltar mention. The article is fascinating, but I have a few queries, see: Template:Did you know nominations/Vrouwenhuis, Zwolle. Regards, Espresso Addict (talk) 02:50, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the input! I will some the changes you suggested. Jane (talk) 10:05, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Adriaen van Cronenburg
I have started Adriaen van Cronenburg and Johnbod has added some bits, but there's very little in English. Is this article something you can help with? I've added the article and the new Commons cat to the Your Paintings 1500-1599 list as well. - PKM (talk) 18:58, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Wow, nice work! I'll add the rkd reference, but you did a pretty good job already. Jane (talk) 21:25, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
 * thanks! -- PKM (talk) 23:35, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 18 March 2013
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The Signpost: 25 March 2013
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DYK for Vrouwenhuis
PanydThe muffin is not subtle 08:02, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Awesome! Hopefully some art detective somewhere will click on it and we'll find out how and why those marine paintings got into that lady's gallery in the 18th century. Jane (talk) 08:53, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 01 April 2013
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The Signpost: 08 April 2013
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Disambiguation link notification for April 17
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The Signpost: 15 April 2013
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DYK nomination of Self-portrait wearing a white feathered bonnet
Hello! Your submission of Self-portrait wearing a white feathered bonnet at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know!  —♦♦ AMBER  (ЯʘCK)  07:24, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

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The Signpost: 22 April 2013
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DYK for Self-portrait wearing a white feathered bonnet
— Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:02, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 April 2013
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May 2013
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The Signpost: 06 May 2013
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Pieter van der Borcht
Hi Jane. I've left a query at Talk:Pieter van der Borcht since I'm a bit worried in case people of the same name have ended up being conflated. I see we also share an interest in women's history. Best, Dsp13 (talk) 14:31, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The guy you mean is definitely an earlier Pieter van der Borcht and can have his own page, if you have any biographical info (maybe a picture?). I responded on the talk page. thx for the note. Jane (talk) 15:24, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Dali's Ghost of Vermeer
Hi Jane I've been doing some work on the page on page on Dali's "Ghost of Vermeer". Do you have a citation for the material you - I think - added about the crutch/maulstick correspondence and the significance of the bulbous hand? best wishes Jimi 66 (talk) 14:53, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Nope. If you google Vermeer Dali maulstick you might find it. Dali used a maulstick himself. Jane (talk) 15:16, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 13 May 2013
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Love history & culture? Get involved in WikiProject World Digital Library!

 * Hey Jane! I'm so happy to see you signed up to join the project - welcome. You can dive into our to-do lists here. Be sure to watchlist your favorite to-do lists, as they will continue to grow as new content gets added to the WDL website. Also, you can always search the WDL website for something that you're interested in. And be sure to share your outcomes here. If I can help with anything just ask and welcome aboard! SarahStierch (talk) 14:03, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for sorting those links out, the Dutch ones are indeed very interesting and I will go ahead and look into how I can help. Jane (talk) 21:09, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

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Disambiguation link notification for June 1
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The Signpost: 05 June 2013
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Achter de schermen bij Koninklijke Bibliotheek en Nationaal Archief
Hallo Jane, Voor de foto's die er genomen zijn heb ik zojuist een categorie aangemaakt. Voeg bij het uploaden op Commons graag de Category:Koninklijke Bibliotheek & Nationaal Archief - behind the scenes 2013 toe. Dank! Romaine (talk) 00:20, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 12 June 2013
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Disambiguation link notification for June 15
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Edit-a-thon Invitation

 * I'll make a note of it - I am sure there is something I can do that day for you. Jane (talk) 12:33, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thomas Willis, Iatrochemistry, and created Mattheus van Helmont. I also did some image sorting on Commons and put some pictures into the category for "Images from the Chemical Heritage Foundation". Jane (talk) 19:45, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

This Month in Education: June 2013
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Thank you! Great work!

 * Thank you! I enjoyed reading about Iatrochemistry and browsing the books on Flickr. I ended up getting obsessed by all the paintings of alchemists and noticed that the CHF has quite a few of these, and several by Mattheus van Helmont, who turns out to have been a relative of the guy behind Helmontism, Jean Baptist van Helmont. Unfortunately I didn't have time to create Helmontism, but maybe I will get back to it eventually. Jane (talk) 05:57, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

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World Digital Library-Wikimedia Partnership Newsletter
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 * We have an easy way to now cite WDL resources. You can learn more about it on our news page, here.
 * Our to-do list is being expanded and features newly digitized and created resources from libraries and archives around the world, including content from Sweden, Qatar, the Library of Congress, and more! You can discover new content for dissemination here.
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 * Our first batch of WDL barnstars have been awarded! Congratulations to our first recipients: ProtoplasmaKid, ChrisGualtieri, TenthEagle, Rhyswynne, Luwii, Sosthenes12, Djembayz, Parkwells, Carl Francis, Yunshui, MrX, Pharaoh of the Wizards, and the prolific Yster76!! Thank you for your contributions and keep up the great work. Be sure to share your article expansions and successes here.

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Come celebrate IdeaLab’s (re)Launch!
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Laurens van der Hem
Hi Jane023! Thanks for your contributions. I noticed you add Laurens van der Hem to the outcomes in the World Digital Library project. I was taking a look at the article and ended up adding an external link to WDL content, however, I didn't see that you actually cited WDL's website or added any images from their cite in the article, so I had to remove it from the WDL outcomes page. That's how we're determining outcomes for tracking the successes during my residency. On the flipside, great work on Ab Salm, I'm so pleased to see that new article! I just wanted to let you know why I originally removed it, and why I'll probably remove the Laurens van der Hem article again. I'm sorry about this! (It's part of my metrics process, and I'm avoiding reporting content that actually wasn't directly improved utilizing WDL as a resource, at the request of WDL). Thank you again for your contributions to the project, I am so pleased to have you involved. SarahStierch (talk) 16:53, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
 * OK Thanks for the note - I would probably have added it back a third time otherwise, since I was unaware of that rule. I only wrote the article because it was redlinked on the WDL TODO page, though I didn't end up using the WDL link at all (I guess this means that you personally inspired me by listing his name there, not the WDL page, though I did see that the WDL picture was unusually colorful, so that led me to do some more investigation). For Ab Salm the WDL note was more informative, so I could use the WDL text though I didn't use the WDL picture. Jane (talk) 17:47, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

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This Month in Education: July 2013
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July 2013
Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=566539137 your edit] to Joachim von Sandrart may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry, just [ edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20-%20&section=new my operator's talk page].
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Unvisited aagainst other Wikipedias
I added support to Unvisited for Wikipedias in 35 languages. Good news is that sv:wp and no:wp are available now. Bad news is that nl:wp and nn:wp never return anything when I use the wikimedia api query for nearby places. I only implemented xx:wps searches for the 35 language codes that returned results. Faolin42 (talk) 23:40, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the update - that's weird about the Dutch Wikipedia - I tested and you're right, nearby doesn't work for me in that project, but it does in English. Jane (talk) 14:41, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

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This Month in Education: August 2013
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Discussion at Wikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creation/RfC Reviewer permission
You are invited to join the discussion at WikiProject Articles for creation/RfC Reviewer permission. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:27, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

GLAM-spam
Dear Jane,
 * As soon as something is going on concerning your (?) project called GLAM some places like the Dutch Village Pump is flooded by templates and messages some of us don't want. We have more important things to do like e.g. writing and/or improving articles. Photography is a nice hobby for me too, however it's not easy in a country that refuses to respect the freedom of panorama. My suggestion is to make a special section (namespace even?) for this and other projects. Better than bugging everyone with it. English people seem to think they can tell theit ideas to the rest of the world and we have to accept their point of view. It's called bureaucracy at least. Many Wikipedia contributors don't like a behavior like this. We are all free (most of us). Hopefully soon enough you listen to the not so free as well. Thank you very much indeed forr time spent to read this wee complaint ;-)  Klaas&#x7c;Z4&#x241f;V:  11:08, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Dear Klaas/Zeaforus, thank you for your wee complaint. I am sorry you perceive my contribution today to the Dutch "Kroeg" as GLAM spam. Point taken and I must admit that your chances of being confronted with more "GLAM spam contributions" like the one I added today are indeed quite high. Sorry for the inconvenience, and I appreciate that you recognize my freedom to post such contributions! Though not everyone in the Kroeg is interested in architecture, I noticed that several people have already responded to my GLAM spam message. Happy editing. Jane (talk) 11:35, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
 * We are blessed as EU=citizens that we can move so easily from one country to another. We can go to places where life seems better than in our own, but in all countries there is something "wrong". We're still far away from a perfect world, I'm afraid. II wonder if such a perfect environment exists at all in this universe. I'm an optimist luckily, but we have the disadvantage to meet more disappointments than pessimists... Klaas&#x7c;Z4&#x241f;V:  12:41, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

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List of monuments of Aruba
Translated. :) Ciell (talk) 16:50, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Die laatste rij in de tabel, "other monuments", wat voegt die nog toe? En zijn dit echt de namen die ze gebruiken, of zijn sommigen eigenlijk ook in het Nederlands? Weet jij dat toevallig? Ciell (talk) 16:51, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Ik had dezelfde vraag, maar ik wilde afwachten hoe hun website dit zou behandelen. Ik denk dat zij ook iets willen in het papiaments, maar dat weet ik ook niet zeker. Mijn tabel is allemaal gebaseerd op Mirca's tabel hier: User:SMFA/sandbox. Bedankt voor het vertalen, en wat fijn dat je meedoet! Jane (talk) 17:04, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Ik doe al een tijdje weer mee, maar was vooral druk met gemeentes bellen. Een vertaalklusje tussendoor is dan leuk voor de afwisseling! Ciell (talk) 20:45, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

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Welcome to the IEG Committee
Hi Jane, Thanks very much for your interest in joining IEG Com - we'd love to have you as a member! I left some info about setup for the committee in a longer message on your meta talk page, hope you check that page too. Cheers! Siko (WMF) (talk) 23:47, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks Siko! Jane (talk) 17:26, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Wat leuk, gefeliciteerd! Ciell (talk) 17:20, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Dank je Ciell. Ik ben heel erg benieuwd naar alle proposals, en of ik ze kan snappen en/of ondersteunen! Wie weet helpt het ook met het formuleren van toekomstige WMNL strategy omtrent nieuwe projecten. Jane (talk) 17:26, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

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This Month in Education: September 2013
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De Adriaan, Haarlem
Hoi Jane, De Adriaan is geen rijksmonument. De originele molen is afgebrand. De huidige molen is nieuwbouw. Multichill (talk) 17:38, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Weet je het zeker? De molen is gebouwd op een oud stukje van het stadsmuur (volgens mij ook het enige resterende stukje stadsmuur als je de Spaarnwouderpoort niet meetelt). Jane (talk) 18:00, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

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Je voordracht op WCN2013
Beste Jane,

Heb je emailadres niet, dus zo maar. Leuk je te spreken op de ALV. Met passen en meten kwam het programma rond: http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/WCN_2013/Programma. Hoop dat je akkoord bent met 20 minuten.

(Als er een pagina klaarstaat, kun je desgewenst de tekst zelf aanbrengen.)
 * Kun je me nog helpen aan een 1. titel 2. inhoud 3. minibio?

Welbedankt, hans muller hans at wikimedia.nl — Preceding unsigned comment added by JMMuller (talk • contribs) 08:24, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
 * 'Tuurlijk, ik zal je mailen. Jane (talk) 08:54, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

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This Month in Education: October 2013
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Request for comment
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Wikimedia LGBT
I just wanted to bring Wikimedia LGBT, a proposed user group and thematic organization that promotes the development of content on Wikimedia projects which is of interest to LGBT communities, to your attention. I am sure you are so busy with your current projects, but I hope you might be able to direct people to this group if they are interested in LGBT content in any way. Of course, you are also more than welcome to indicate your interest/support, if you wish. Hopefully we can get some LGBT-related GLAM/Education/etc. projects up and running in the near future. Best, -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 20:20, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

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This Month in Education: November 2013
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December 2013
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 * *Delemer, Jean (Tournai, c.1440 – Brussels, c.1460)
 * *Dircksz, Adam (active around 1500)

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This Month in Education: December 2013
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I have unreviewed a page you curated
Hi, I'm Xcia0069. I wanted to let you know that I saw the page you reviewed, Vincent Sellaer, and have un-reviewed it again. If you have any questions, please ask them on my talk page. Thank you. Xcia0069 (talk) 15:46, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Sorting of Flemish painters
Hi Jane023, I noticed this and similar edits, and I wondered: why? Is there is a reason that Flemish painters pre-1830 should be ordered different than Flemish painters post-1830? I would personally, in the above example, use the "Van Apshoven" sort instead of the "Apshoven, Thomas van", but I'ld like to hear your arguments (or get a link to the discussion about this if any exists). Fram (talk) 13:07, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
 * The main reason is because all period accounts of people with tussenvoegsels in their names were always sorted by patronimic up to well after the splitting off of Belgium in 1830. Later Belgium settled on their somewhat bizarre convention with the introduction of telephone directories (and most such Belgians solved this in modern times often by just removing the spaces between the tussenvoegsels and the patronym). See for an example in the group of Baroque painters that Anthony van Dijk is never sorted with the V's, but with the D's. Sorry, I am not good with digging up the diffs on this, but it has been discussed at length. Jane (talk) 13:45, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, van Dyck is a bit of an exception, having worked in England for so long. Looking at e.g. Hendrick van Balen, I note 568 cases sorted on Van, and 571 cases sorted on Balen, which is impressively inconclusive :-) Even looking at 21st century only, both seem to be in use. I prefer the "Van Balen" version (to stick with that example), but there doesn't seem to a strong argument against your choices, so feel free to change or not, whatever you prefer. Fram (talk) 14:00, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
 * That also depends on what language your Google search is set to as default. I try to keep with the sorting and spelling used by the RKD, and the further you go into the 18th and 19th centuries their sorting does start showing up with tussenvoegsel first, then patronymic. When the RKD seems off, I will follow whatever was already decided on Commons for the Creator categories. I don't think there are any good reasons to sort by tussenvoegsel for people who died well before 1800 though. Jane (talk) 21:10, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 18 December 2013
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A barnstar for you!
Jane, thank you for adding your voice to the Individual Engagement Grants Committee this round! I appreciated how quickly you gave direct feedback to proposers on talk pages, and I know your input really helped them. I hope we'll continue to have your help in the future :) Best wishes, Siko (WMF) (talk) 00:15, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I enjoyed learning all about the process and I found most of the proposals inspiring. I really hope the chosen ones work out well. Jane (talk) 10:54, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

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The Signpost: 25 December 2013
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