User talk:Jayron32/Archive14

Bother bother bother
I'm just wondering if you think this would be a good place to try and start with actually contributing. There's already information there and stuff but it looks like it could use referencing and formatting and work. Shouldn't be that hard to find good sources for a band, right? :0  Audiosmurf  ♪ / ♫  19:41, 18 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Looks like as good place to start! The article has serious formatting issues.  I would look into the standard formats required of band articles by exploring some of the bands listed at WP:FA and WP:GA; and start digging up sources for things like awards, chart positions, etc. -- Jayron  32  19:47, 18 January 2010 (UTC)


 * What a shame! I looked about a bit and couldn't really find anything for that article, but I'm gonna try and look some more.  Maybe they've been on some Japanese charts or something.  Audiosmurf   ♪ / ♫  19:04, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Follow-up re: Swimming pool sanitation
Hi there, Jayron. I've been traveling recently and only just noticed your comment on the Talk page for Swimming pool sanitation. If you are still available to help, I have a lot of ideas about how it should read (and ways it currently does read but probably should not). I have access to research on pool sanitation issues and know plenty about Wikipedia as well; but for the potential COI I would be editing directly. If you can still help, I can start preparing suggestions for the Talk. Hope to work with you shortly. Cheers, NMS Bill (talk) 21:28, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I would be glad to help. I have that page watchlisted, so if you propose anything at the talk page, I can respond there.  If I don't respond in a couple of days, just ping me here to make sure I don't miss it.  -- Jayron  32  23:11, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your patience. I've just posted a new version of the article's first paragraph on the Talk page with a brief explanation of what the revision accomplishes. Let me know when you can! Thanks, NMS Bill (talk) 17:03, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Extremely belated thanks

 * Um, holy shit? That was like, 3 years old.  What are you doing digging thru 3 year old AFDs?  -- Jayron  32  05:45, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Lordradish re-adding deleted inappropriate links again
Just discovered your block after posting this complaint External_links/Noticeboard. His "defense" at discussion here included outing and allegations of racism. CarolMooreDC (talk) 20:00, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Please take this to WP:ANI for a more through discussion and on this case. This needs to be seen by more admins than me.  -- Jayron  32  20:02, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I left similar "External links" warning on his talk page and the article discussion page and an ANI warning, since don't have time or energy today. Though giving people such a break often turns out to be a thankless courtesy. Sigh... CarolMooreDC (talk) 20:28, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Re deleted page for pianist Valentina Seferinova
MLADENOVA (talk) 22:00, 23 January 2010 (UTC) Hi Jayron32 I am Mike Bradley, husband of Valentina Seferinova (visit www.valentinaseferinova.com for more info)

Some time ago, perhaps 2 years ago, I attempted to create a page in her name (she is already listed on the Classical Concert Pianist's page, also on the 'Recorded Classical Concert Pianist' page - though neither have been my responsibility) - however after inserting some text (with the intention of adding to it later) I discovered that it had been deleted with 'blatant copyright infringement' cited.

I am the author of all publicity materials relating to her; am web author of her site, as well as web master, thus claim that I am the actual copyright holder of the information I was trying to post.

Why? Well, she is of dual Bulgarian/British nationality - and whilst her command of the English language is just fine - she tends to leave any official English-ese to me - a Brit!

I now wish, if this situation can be resolved, to continue to post relevant information about her, but am anxious to avoid running into the same editorial problem.

To establish my bonafides in this matter I may be contacted at mjb@valentinaseferinova.com; or should you wish to contact my wife - she is at vs@valentinaseferinova.com However - as I routinely deal with her emails as a matter of the household chores either will get to me.

Hoping that the matter can be quickly resolved, and thanking you for your attention in advance.

Regards

Mike Bradley

Do over
Can we get a do over on the Dramaout? ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Meetup
Hiya Jayron, I see you're in the NC Highways wikiproject and say that you've lived in NC ... we're finally having an NC meetup in Raleigh on March 6 (sponsored by the Bathrobe Cabal, but everyone's invited). See WP:Meetup for details. Hope you can make it. (Watching) - Dank (push to talk) 03:35, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, thanks. I'm kinda already in on the organizing end of it, a little bit.  Lara and I have been scoping restaurants and stuff.  But thanks for the invite!  -- Jayron  32  17:45, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Doh, no one tells me anything :) Carry on! - Dank (push to talk) 18:31, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Hey Jay. Can you sign the page for the days you can make? Either for sure or possibly? I'm trying to solidify locations. I just realized that Big Ed's is closed on Sundays, so I'm changing that one to (maybe) 18 Seaboard. Still looking around. We also may have too many people for the Dessertery, so anyway, I'm trying to get solid numbers so I can make reservations. Let me know. :) Lara  23:08, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, maybe we could do Big Eds Saturday for lunch? Another idea for dinner Sunday, maybe 42nd street oyster bar.  They're big and good for large groups.  Fun place, good food.  Oh, and 18 Seaboard is ( I think ) a little too froo froo for lunch.  I was thinking maybe a classic Carolina BBQ kinda place?  I'll look into some stuff for that... -- Jayron  32  02:22, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Big Ed's has been moved to Saturday for lunch. Dinner at Raleigh Times Bar, I think. A BBQ place might be good. I've been picking locations off TripAdvisor.com to get ratings and reviews, just working from the top ranked down. If you've got a really good lunch place that can accommodate our numbers and has good food at a reasonable price (the oyster bar looks a bit expensive for lunch), drop it on the meetup page. Lara  20:46, 8 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Did it already, you seem a bit behind the times. I suggested The Pit for Sunday lunch. See the Raleigh Meetup talk page for more on that. Several people have seconded that as an option. -- Jayron  32  20:49, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Hi
Hi ... I see you just reverted my edits, in which I sought to make clearer min requirements for notability (as various editors have been applying the concept on that page), w/ the summary "revert spam edits by Blavery123.". Not sure where the snafu is -- my edit was neither spam, nor am I that editor.--Epeefleche (talk) 17:09, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, sorry. I was trying to undo his edits, after cleaning up a bunch of spam he left all over.  Looks like you already got it.  Carry on.  -- Jayron  32  17:17, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Whew. Yep ... I figured as much after leaving you a note, and going through the article history.  Great -- many thanks.  Cheers.--Epeefleche (talk) 17:47, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

St. Louis Browns, etc.
Since it now redirects to Orioles, should the Orioles page mention, not just the 1875-77 Browns team, but also the Cardinals, who were originally the Browns AA 1882-91? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:52, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, Lets create St. Louis Browns (disambiguation) then. I'll go ahead and do that.  -- Jayron  32  21:08, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Jolly good. I think we had a similar page at one time, but it might have evolved. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:02, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Category:Future living people
Tough audience over there! pablo hablo. 11:57, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Greater Nashua Habitat for Humanity
Dear Jayron32,

We are trying to understand why you keep deleting the Greater Nashua Habitat for Humanity page and redirecting to the International organization?

Greater Nashua Habitat for Humanity meets all the notability standards stated in the guidelines. The organization's focus is different from Habitat for Humanity International (all affiliates serve unique areas where the organization exists), and its work is intertwined with the French Hill area in Nashua quite profoundly - it's a pity that the Nashua entry has not had a substantive coverage of this, but that should not take away from the substance of the work done in that area by many organizations, GNHFH included.

Not a single person in the organization is paid - the Wikipedia entry has not been advanced as a promotion tool but as a historical record of the organization and its growth, the impact it has on Nashua, New Hampshire and the communities it surrounds. Habitat for Humanity Ireland, which is another affiliate - playing the same role we do but in a different region of the world - has a Wikipedia entry that is honored and serves to inform the public and provide some minor historical account.

One main person worked on this article a few months ago - a volunteer who is passing on their work to other volunteers as the organization evolves. It has been resourceful for people in many respects, both internally and externally - could someone please contact those of us with editing access to let us know how to improve the article rather than lose the work done?

wks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wkstrategies (talk • contribs) 00:44, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Being paid is not what promotion is about. Promotion is about advancing the interests of the organization you are intimately involved in.  Furthermore, you and other people working on this article have a clear and unambiguous conflict of interest in that you are interested in seeing the internet profile of the organization advanced.  That runs counter to the basic core values of Wikipedia, which is about presenting neutral, well referenced, reliable articles on notable subjects.  Regardless of whether or not it is notable or not as a local organization, and regardless of how much awesome work it does in French Hill and around Nashua, you should not be doing this writing.  I am quite familiar with the local area, and I am sure you do awesome work.  But leave it to someone who has no stake in seeing the organization promoted to do the writing, please.  -- Jayron  32  03:59, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Habitat / French Hill
Dear Jayron32,

I think the intent is misperceived. Someone volunteered to record the history of the organization and asked for help with supporting articles, etc. Initially the concern pointed out was that accessing citations was difficult because much of what is in the media is subject to charges (paid subscriptions) but the person very kindly made an effort to tackle this and it seems they did fine.

There were two Habitat for Humanity articles on Wikipedia that were used as examples: the Habitat for Humanity International article, and the Habitat for Humanity Ireland article. I think that what this person kindly created was a good reference source that fell somewhere between those two and open for further editing by anyone, of course.

I respect what you are pointing out and just hope the article is given the chance to develop with the help of other Wikipedia writers, particularly those who would be interested in creating a useful historical reference in this subject area. I think the attempt made was to improve on the context and history provided by the Habitat for Humanity Ireland example with this particular affiliate; based on the criteria expressed it seems this article fits it as much as the Habitat Ireland one - but the intent is most definitely not in creating or supporting the creation of a biased piece, but in piecing together information that is cited to provide a brief narrative that explains the basic what, when, where, and why. As an editor do you as see fit and that will be respected; but it can be said in all honesty that the person who wrote the item did so in a public interest and not an organizational one.

Thank you for your efforts in Wikipedia.

wks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.218.22.3 (talk) 05:31, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

WikiCup 2010 January newsletter
We are half way through round one of the WikiCup. We've had some shakeups regarding late entries, flag changes and early dropouts, but the competition is now established- there will be no more flag changes or new competitors. Congratulations to, our current leader, who, at the time of writing, has more listed points than and   (second and third place respectively) combined. A special well done also goes to - his artcle Jewel Box (St. Louis, Missouri) was the first content to score points in the competition.

Around half of competitors are yet to score. Please remember to submit content soon after it is promoted, so that the judges are able to review entries. 64 of the 149 current competitors will advance to round 2- if you currently have no points, do not worry, as over half of the current top 64 have under 50 points. Everyone needs to get their entries in now to guarantee their places in round 2! If you are concerned that your nomination will not receive the necessary reviews, and you hope to get it promoted before the end of the round, please list it on WikiCup/Reviews. However, please remember to continue to offer reviews at GAC, FAC and all the other pages that require them to prevent any backlogs which could otherwise be caused by the Cup. As ever, questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup and the judges are reachable on their talk pages, by email or on IRC. Good luck! J Milburn, Garden, iMatthew and The ed17 Delivered by JCbot (talk) at 00:15, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Adopt me please and help with this question?
A quick question. Must there be a Creative Commons link or icon on a page for me to quote from it? Is this info enough for me to use their material? "All material on this website are free copyright as long as you provide our website and as long as money is not charged." Im unsure if this is enough for me to use their material? Please help. Peace —Preceding unsigned comment added by Humilityisfine (talk • contribs) 11:01, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

SPA
On the ref desk talk page a couple of days ago, I had this megillah of a discussion with an IP address who objected to my term "drive-by" and suggested I use the "SPA" tag instead. That discussion was later collapsed. I took the talk page off my watch list, so I don't know if it's still there, has been archived, has been deleted, or what. I noticed that nannyistic question from an IP whose only entry was that complaint. Hence I posted the SPA tag to alert editors to the fact, in lieu of calling it a "drive-by". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:58, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe I should consult that IP and see what he thinks about this situation, since he endorsed the SPA thing. Notice I didn't participate otherwise in what to me looks like trolling. Have fun. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:18, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I see I'm not the only one that gets frustrated. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:21, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Ironically, that does fit the definition of an SPA. I've seen endless discussion of this kind of issue on the ref desk talk page, yet no one is willing to do anything about this kind of nonsense. That's part of the reason I've taken the talk page off my watch list. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:33, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Registered users get topic-banned, and little or nothing happens to the countless trolling IP's. No wonder the IP's are reluctant to create registered user IDs. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:45, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

You were right
You were right. The fact about the NCAA not sanctioning the BCS was in the article. I have no (expletive) idea how I missed that. Well done. Now if we could only prevent vandalism of that article. I understand why people are angry at the BCS (and I would love to see it modified), but that doesn't justify the vandalism. Obamafan70 (talk) 23:09, 4 February 2010 (UTC)


 * It's all good man. Just keep fighting the good fight.  -- Jayron  32  00:08, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Global sysops/Vote
You or someone with your username has voted in Global sysops/Vote but you don't have a SUL account. Please merge your accounts or add a link from your Meta user page to your local user page to confirm your identity, or your vote may be struck. Thank you, Nemo 17:27, 6 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Confirming that this is me. -- Jayron  32  19:13, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

SockPuppetry
Hi there.

You answered my query on the helpdesk about a user called KellyPR124. You said that if there was evidence of SockPuppetry being used for vandalism (whick KellyPR124 has been flagged up for) then you would investigate. Well, there's another user on that page called KellyPR1234 - presumably this is evidence enough to look into it?

Here's the revision page http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=David_Amess&action=history

I'd like to talk to you in confidence about why I'm looking into this. Please email me at shanedavidcroucher@gmail.com - I'm a journalist.

Thanks,

Shane —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shanecroucher (talk • contribs) 16:16, 9 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I said I would help you set up an SPI report. As I am not a checkuser, I do not have the technical ability to actually do the investigation you want.  The report would serve to get the attention of a checkuser, who CAN do the investigation you want.  If you wish to discuss this in confidence with people who have the power to investigate the matter, you should send an email to the Arbitration Committee; information for doing so is located at WP:ARBCOM.  They have been empowered by the Wikipedia community to investigate complex claims like this, and have both the technical ability and moral authority to do so.  Please contact the ARBCOM as described at WP:ARBCOM.  -- Jayron  32  16:21, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your help, I shall look into it further.

Shane —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shanecroucher (talk • contribs) 21:42, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Pool sanitation
Hi there Jayron, I posted another request / recommendation over at the Talk page for Swimming pool sanitation, specifically about promotional claims made in one specific paragraph. Would like to get your input at your earliest convenience. Cheers, NMS Bill (talk) 18:57, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

note
Psst... 1889. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:09, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Fine... -- Jayron  32  04:13, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Your block of User:Yank your dick and shake it...
...almost made me fall out of my chair. The Thing  //  Talk  //  Contribs  05:43, 15 February 2010 (UTC)


 * You are welcome. I aim to please... -- Jayron  32  05:44, 15 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Is the blockee a Yankees fan? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:46, 15 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, considering the strong connection between being a Yankees fan and being a dick, quite possibly... ;) -- Jayron  32  05:48, 15 February 2010 (UTC)


 * The time honored cry of "Yankees suck!" must fit in this discussion somewhere also. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 05:51, 15 February 2010 (UTC)


 * ... -- Jayron  32  05:54, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Suggested replacement paragraph
Hi Jayron, I've just posted my proposed replacement paragraph at Talk:Swimming pool sanitation; take a look when you get a chance and I'll check back in when you do. Cheers, NMS Bill (talk) 21:48, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Review
HI, could you please look over this for me? I left a note in the Bibliography section because I didn't know how to properly reference it. Thanks, PoeticVerse (talk) 02:49, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Suggestion?
Hi! I was wondering what you would suggest I get involved with here on Wikipedia? Obviously I'm aware of writing and editing articles, but is there more I can do? Thanks, PoeticVerse (talk) 00:16, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Unblock request
Please look at the user's contributions; also, please contact ArbCom for more information. -- Avi (talk) 04:04, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

It's "VAYA" not "VIA". Learn how to speak Spanish.
Where did you learn your Spanish. "Via" the web? Learn how to speak a language please before you make another attempt and look like a fool. Vaya! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.76.64.16 (talk) 17:32, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * ¿Cómo se dice <> en español? Eddie Yost, Owego. :) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:52, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

24.1.197.58 unblock request
Just FYI that is a hardblock (and should stay blocked). Prodego talk  18:02, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Swimming pool sanitation
Hi Jayron, haven't heard back for you in a few days; I'm inclined to be bold and change out the spam-infested paragraph I pointed out recently with the one I posted on Talk:Swimming pool sanitation as I've written a replacement paragraph, and no one else appears to be active on the page. Please have a look though, and let me know if you have any suggestions. I may get to it later today. Thanks, NMS Bill (talk) 14:19, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * And so I did change out the paragraph a few minutes ago. Let me know if you have any concerns. Cheers, NMS Bill (talk) 21:53, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Quick question
What does the [mark as patrolled] button do? I clicked it once by accident. Hope I didn't do anything wrong. PoeticVerse (talk) 02:12, 20 February 2010 (UTC)


 * No big deal. It just means that you have patrolled the new article and confirmed that it isn't vandalism.  If it is vandalism, you can tag it for deletion using WP:CSD.  It just lets other patrollers know its been looked at so they don't have to check it themselves. -- Jayron  32  22:58, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Block
Greetings,

For some reason I get a message saying I have been blocked from editing from 130.76.64.16, yet this is not even close to my IP range. (The 130. prefix is correct, but not the subnet addresses.) Perhaps an error occurred?&mdash;RJH (talk) 19:56, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I signed out and back in again, and the block seems to have dropped. So, sorry to disturb you.&mdash;RJH (talk) 19:59, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The block came back again. What the hey???&mdash;RJH (talk) 20:06, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, if you are posting to my talk page, it isn't currently occuring. If this is an intermittent problem, please request an IP Block Exemption from an admin.  I can do that for you if you want.  -- Jayron  32  16:02, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Unfortunately I'm getting blocked again. The message doesn't even appear to apply to me: "Editing from 130.76.64.16 has been disabled by Jayron32... Block evasion: User:Jaredkunz30 evading block". It looks like that IP is for a commercial proxy server (down in Anaheim, CA) rather than a host. Perhaps somebody may be hopping around between different hosts behind the proxy.&mdash;RJH (talk) 19:34, 25 February 2010 (UTC)


 * WOuld you like me to grant you the IPBE? -- Jayron  32  05:27, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Final discussion for Requests for comment/Biographies of living people
Hello, I note that you have commented on the first phase of Requests for comment/Biographies of living people

As this RFC closes, there are two proposals being considered:
 * 1) Proposal to Close This RfC
 * 2) Alternate proposal to close this RFC: we don't need a whole new layer of bureaucracy

Your opinion on this is welcome. Okip  02:20, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Urgent- tiebreakers for WikiCup round 2
Hello. As you may be aware, the second round of the WikiCup begins tomorrow, and you are one of five users on 20 points. There is one place remaining in the next round. As such, I have two questions- firstly, are you interested in getting through to the next round? If the answer is yes, then secondly, please let me know of any outstanding nominations (as in, ongoing nominations) of content, so that this may be considered, or any work you have done in review processes (GAC, PR, FAC, that kind of thing) over the last two months. Thanks. Please reply as soon as possible in this thread. J Milburn (talk) 11:52, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yep, you've been put through :) J Milburn (talk) 18:48, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

WikiCup 2010 February newsletter
Round one is over, and round two has begun! Congratulations to the 64 contestants who have made it through, but well done and thank you to all contestants who took part in our first round. A special well done goes to, our round one winner (1010 points), and to and , who were second and third respectively (640 points/605 points). Sasata was awarded the most points for both good articles (300 points) and featured articles (600 points), and TonyTheTiger was awarded the most for featured topics (225 points), while Hunter Kahn claimed the most for good topics (70). claimed the most featured lists (240 points) and featured pictures (35 points), claimed the most for Did you know? entries (490 points),  claimed the most for featured sounds (70 points) and  claimed the most for In the news entries (40 points). No one claimed a featured portal or valued picture.

Credits awarded after the end of round one but before round two may be claimed in round two, but remember the rule that content must have been worked on in some significant way during 2010 by you for you to claim points. The groups for round two will be placed up shortly, and the submissions' pages will be blanked. This round will continue until 28 April, when the top two users from each group, as well as 16 wildcards, will progress to round three. Please remember to continue to offer reviews at GAC, FAC and all the other pages that require them to prevent any backlogs which could otherwise be caused by the Cup; thank you to all doing this last round, and particularly to those helping at WikiCup/Reviews. As ever, questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup and the judges are reachable on their talk pages, by email or on IRC. Good luck! If you wish to start receiving or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn, Fox, iMatthew and The ed17 Delivered by JCbot (talk) at 00:48, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

RfC on Community de-adminship
You are receiving this message because you contributed to Wikipedia talk:Community de-adminship/Draft RfC and have not participated at Community de-adminship/RfC or been directly informed this RfC has opened. Please accept my apologies if you have been informed of and/or participated in the RfC already.

This RfC has opened and your comments are welcome and encouraged. Please visit Community de-adminship/RfC. Thank you, --Hammersoft (talk) 16:15, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Euthanasia promotion
Your action in closing the Euthanasia argument at the Ref. Desk was proper. Thank you. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 13:11, 5 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Day nah dah. -- Jayron  32  17:19, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Climate change denial AfD comments
Re your comments on AN/I about JohnWBarber's AfD nomination, might I draw your attention to my follow-up comments here? -- ChrisO (talk) 15:06, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Gene Omission
I have explained at User talk:Gene Omission. Cool Hand Luke 21:47, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

IMDB as a source; List of documentary films
Thankyou for your response on the help desk, I tend to agree with you. I am editing the list of documentary films, which includes such infomation as year; director; producer, I have been using IMDB as a source for such information, before I continue I really need something in writing stating IMDB is O.K. for such information (basically needing the nod a approval) for this list.-- intraining  Jack In  07:49, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Front page
Hi! Do editors go through new articles to find "Did You Know?" and "In The News" or does one have to apply for them? Thanks, PoeticVerse (talk) 03:45, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Followup to Meetup
It was good to see the strong turnout. I enjoyed chatting, let's do it again sometime. - Dank (push to talk) 23:56, 9 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Absolutely! We should set a date like 6 months out and do it again!  -- Jayron  32  04:33, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Yep, I'll sign up! - Dank (push to talk) 05:06, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Munson 2.jpg
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Research Triangle vs Person County
The RTP official site indicates that there are only three counties in the "Research Triangle area". Person County is not one of them. 

A google search revealed that any websites that indicated Person County was part of the Research Triangle were clones or outright plagiarized copies of Wikipedia. 155.84.57.253 (talk) 17:52, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

List of programs broadcast by Cartoon Network and tooncast
Look I I all have erased it them vandalism;Look at track records and there pay attention on the false information that they put on boomerang 2 something that does not go to exist nape of the neck and also there are insults look at the track record of the two and look at the user...... My user name adding 1 nothing else has been imitated please block this user he is a Vandal.Thanks--Hugo Felix - Messages Here 04:43, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Look, I still don't see it. Could you just show some diffs and explain what is wrong with each diff so I can understand the nature of the problem?  -- Jayron  32  04:47, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Tooncast
These anonymous users put this false information:
 * []
 * []
 * [] Something that is not going to happen
 * The user Juliohfv1 puts these false reports and information:
 * []
 * []
 * []
 * This user juliohfv1 has created the same equal name to me you stop her that I be to blame and no the.--Hugo Felix - Messages Here 04:57, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting support.svg Semi-protected&#32;for a period of 1 week, after which the page will be automatically unprotected.. Both articles done.  Thanks for explaining in more detail and showing some diffs that explain the problem.  I have also blocked the impersonation account.  -- Jayron  32  05:06, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

sockpuppet returns
Banned sockpuppeteer Escapeeyes has returned using the new name MONOLOPEES.Purrum (talk) 11:46, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

False accusation of sock puppetry
Hi Jayron32, User:Dewatchdog is being blocked in accusation of SOCK of my account. I am afraid that it was a wrong decision. That account has nothing to do with me. I have also dropped a mail to the blocked admin in this regard. Since you are following up this case (I got to know from the talk page of Dewatchdog), let me clarify my part:

I was very surprised to find that my username is blocked from editing. The reason stated was that I am using socks. The matter of fact is that I am/was not using any sock accounts.. I went through the details of the alleged sock accout (User:Dewatchdog), and found that his contributions are mainly centered around Kochi, India article.

I have attempted to stop the edit war between the concerned users giving advises and discussing in talk pages. I have even issued warnings to all the related users, including the alleged sock, Dewatchdog : http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ADewatchdog&action=historysubmit&diff=317229955&oldid=317049537

Some range of the IP addresses he uses matches with my IP addresses, but not all (I can see that from the nature of edits). I am editing wikipedia through the IP address dedicated to Citigroup. Citigroup is spread around 150 countries with more than 500,000 employees worldwide. Most of the internet connections (irrespective of the country) are routed to the NewYork IP. I am only using these range of IPs since an year for editing wikipedia. Hence, it is unfair to judge that all the edits made from these ranges of IP are from me.

If you can scrutinize the nature of my edits and contributions, it would be well evident that I am not keeping a sock account. I request you to re-think in this and to come up with a fair decision.

Cheers, -- Rajith Mohan (Talk to me..) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.193.164.8 (talk) 11:28, 20 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I am holding no opinion on the matter at all, and I am waiting on a response from the blocking admin regarding the matter. Please be patient.  -- Jayron  32  19:37, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Iko Iko
Jayron32 On 20th March 2010 you effectively decimated the Iko Iko article by removing 80% of it. It was I who wrote the section 4 which decribes the deciphering of the originally unfathomable chorus. You cited as reasons copyright violation and I invite you to cite whose copyright was violated in section 4. You also cited 'supposition' as if to say that section 4's deciphering of the lyrics was not factual. Are you a good enough Louisiana French Creole speaker to challenge the Creole translation and accenting of the lyrics presented in Section 4? Also, are you a good enough Mobilian Trade Jargon speaker to challenge Profesor Emmanuel Dreschler's (who wrote the Mobilian dictionary) and Laura Redish (who is a Native American Chocktaw) who confirmed that the lyrics 'Jocomo fee na' was really the Native American greeting 'Chokma Finha'? I'd like to know what your qualifications in these two languages are because perhaps you really are a language expert, and Redish and Deschler have git it wrong..

I've been getting a pile of emails from YouTube users asking for the original explanation of the words which have now been deleted (by you).

I intend to restore them, but would like to submit them as a draft to whatever panel is deputed by Wikipaedia to look into such things so that they obey Wiki rules and don't get deleted again. History cannot be left to th whims of anyone - and in this case you have deleted a precious piece of New Orleans history. I don't think anyone has the right to do that. I'm obviously committed to repsecting Wikipedia' guidelines, and I'd like to know to whom I should submit the draft. Now I'm not sure of how the system works, of the codes, and where I'll be able to see an answer from you. So I'm giving you my personal email (ian.cully@wanadoo.fr) because this history issue cannot be allowed to die in the murderous fashion it has. Please have the grace to reply both on Wiki as well as to my email. Iancully1 (talk) 15:15, 21 March 2010 (UTC)iancully1

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jayron32" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iancully1 (talk • contribs) 15:18, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Iko Iko - reminder # 1 - 22 March 2010
You have chosen not or reply to my previous query Iko Iko. May i respectually remind you that someone with a Wikieditor qualification should be responsible and polite enough to respond. Iancully1 (talk) 15:17, 22 March 2010 (UTC)iancully1

Swimming pool sanitation
Hi there, it took me awhile but I now have another proposal to make. In this case I have undertaken the effort of rewriting an entire section to make it more streamlined but retaining as much important information as possible, and providing high-quality citations where they do not presently exist.


 * Here is the live section now: Prevention of diseases in swimming pools and spas
 * Here is my proposed revision: Prevention of diseases in swimming pools and spas

I have also placed a request for comment on the Swimming pool sanitation Talk page, and I've checked in with another editor who appears knowledgeable and has recently made a small correction. Any thoughts? Cheers, NMS Bill (talk) 16:05, 22 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Went ahead and made these changes after talking with another editor. You seem busy, and I don't mean to be an annoyance, I just want to make sure I've got consensus as I overhaul the article. I've got more revisions to the article coming up, so please feel free to check in, if you're so inclined. Cheers, NMS Bill (talk) 15:43, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, its looking real good. From my end, you seem to have a real good handle on this now.  If you want me to review anything, feel free to let me know.  But so far, I think you're writing is top notch!  -- Jayron  32  14:09, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Significant Gains (the album)
You deleted my page http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Significant_Gains_(the_album)&action=edit&redlink=1

citing that (A9: Non-notable music by artist with no Wikipedia article). That is completely not true. Here is the artist's page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Phillinganes#Solo. Now restore it so that it can be cleaned up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ethiopiashimsham (talk • contribs) 18:03, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion
Several years ago, you were involved in a deletion review on Directional Michigan. Here is the original discussion. A new proposal for deletion has come up and you are invited to participate here.

This note is being posted on the talk pages of everyone involved in that discussion that still has an active account. Feel free to express your opions for or against deletion as you see fit.--Paul McDonald (talk) 03:42, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

April 2010 GAN backlog elimination drive
–MuZemike delivered by MuZebot 17:44, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Re: Tolerant666 vs Rourke name change
Hi Jayron32,

I considered changing my username. The thing is, even after reading, I'm not sure what that entails. I've considered abandoning the "Tolerant666" name, but since the original Tolerant666 name is registered to a public computer, isn't it possible that other users will consistently vandalize under the "Tolerant666" name? I just don't want to be associated with vandalism.

Thanks,

Rourke 21:25, 27 March 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tolerant666 (talk • contribs)

Join the WP:USRDCUP 2010!
We're going to go ahead and try this again! The contest will begin April 1. It is a contest to encourage editors to improve teh quality of WP:USRD articles and participate in USRD. Precautions will be taken to make sure that people do not "game the system" and bring article quality down. Please sign up ASAP! Announcements regarding the contest will be made at WP:USRDCUP, Twitter, and/or IRC. --Rschen7754 06:51, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Speedy delete tag on Artistic Freedom & Social Responsibility
Hello,

I am writing this to you after seeing the following notice in the "My Talk" page:

"A tag has been placed on Artistic Freedom & Social Responsibility requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be a blatant copyright infringement."

In this connection I would like to bring to your notice that the article written by me has appeared in several websites including the following:

(1) http://india-forum.com

(2) http://thefreelibrary.com

(3) http://voxindica.blogspot.com

(4) http://voxindica.sulekha.com

I am permitted to create and post article on blog / web sites mentioned at (2), (3) and (4) and in the site mentioned at (1), I have done so as a guest writer. Further I am free to use the article in other sites.

Hence I affirm that there has been no copyright violation and request you to please undo the deletion.

Thanking you,

Sincerely, U.NARAYANADAS

P.S.I am not aware whether I am violating any guidelines by sending this message to you but am doing so only to set the record straight. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Unarayanadas (talk • contribs) 14:25, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Huggle
Hi. I recently got rollback, and I've been using Huggle, but I've been noticing that some of the edits in the queue have red circles next to them. What does this mean? Thanks. PoeticVerse (talk) 21:57, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

WikiCup 2010 March newsletter
We're half way through round two, and everything is running smoothly. leads overall with 650 points this round, and heads pool B. currently leads pool C, dubbed the "Group of Death", which has a only a single contestant yet to score this round (the fewest of any group), as well five contestants over 100 points (the most). With a month still to go, as well as 16 wildcard places, everything is still to play for. Anything you worry may not receive the necessary attention before the end of the round (such as outstanding GA or FA nominations) is welcome at WikiCup/Reviews, and please remember to continue offering reviews yourself where possible. As always, the judges are available to contact via email, IRC or their talk pages, and general discussion about the Cup is welcome on the WikiCup talk page.

Although unrelated to the WikiCup, April sees a Good Article Nominations backlog elimination drive, formulated as a friendly competition with small awards, as the Cup is. Several WikiCup contestants and judges have already signed up, but regular reviewers and those who hope to do more reviewing are more than welcome to join at the drive page. If you wish to start receiving or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn, Fox, iMatthew and The ed17 Delivered by JCbot (talk) 22:16, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Peer Review Request
If you have the time, I'd really appreciate you taking a look at Manchester United F.C., its currently waiting for peer review. Thanks. Tomlock01 (talk) 19:50, 2 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for reviewing, really appreciate it. Using your comments, and also those from the GA review, I have made suggested changes. Would appreciate your views. If you have anything to add on the level and scope of work required to make it featured, I'd appreciate that too. Thanks again. Tomlock01 (talk) 22:14, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Lkhuih and vandalism
I noted you've previously warned Lkhuih about vandalism and wish to point out this second infraction in regards to the Jim Zorn entry. Yes, I am a rat fink. --Quartermaster (talk) 15:43, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

SoftDEL Logo deleted
Hello Jayron,

The SoftDEL logo has been deleted from the SoftDEL Systems page. I am unable to get it back. Can you help me out.

--Peswriter (talk) 11:37, 6 April 2010 (UTC)


 * It looks like you did not comply with the proper uploading procedures, so it was deleted. You're going to have to upload a new version, with the following items on the image description page:
 * You need to properly indicate that the image is copyright, and indicate the source of the image and who owns the copyright on it.
 * You need to use a properly formatted fair use rationale which explains why the image is being used at Wikipedia, and why it is necessary to violate copyright in order to use the image.
 * You need to use the image in an article (unused copyrighted images are deleted).
 * If you do those things when you upload the image, you should be fine. -- Jayron  32  17:44, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Iko Iko - submission for review after your excise of entire section as OR
Riposte to Wikipedia Editor JAYRON 32 on Iko Iko

Your reply to me after I protested at your elimination of the entire Section 4 on the song ‘Iko Iko’ which I had added to the original article was: ‘…the ENTIRETY of your additions to the article were original research…’. You also told me they were ‘personal opinion’.

Wikipedia’s guidelines exhort their editors to ‘''Avoid using blocks as a first resort. Consider talking to a user before you block them.’'' I would really have appreciated this courtesy being extended to me first time round. Instead, I woke up one morning to find the entire section had vanished and there was no opportunity to re-edit or correct anything in the face of this unilateral obliteration of the entire section. The only explanation provided by you was a cryptic message accompanying the entire elimination of Section 4. It was, word for word: (removed MASSIVE section of personal analysis and lyrics, per WP:OR and WP:COPYVIO). I later wrote to you asking for an explanation and you left an equally short message for me on ‘talk’ telling me “the ENTIRETY of your additions to the article were Original Research… and based on personal opinion”

I intend to reintroduce the section you excised.

However, this time I am submitting it in advance, proving that what I wrote was from published sources, not original research. I have taken the precaution of proving each and every line. Each justification is presented inside brackets and in boldface and preceded by the mention NOTE TO JAYRON 32.

Below is the Section 4 which you excised, with full explanation after each sentence of why I protest against the Original Research, personal opinion, personal analysis tags that you unilaterally applied to the entire section.

I start with the initial heading of the original Section 4 which exists no more following your blanket elimination of the entire section.

The Meaning of the words of Iko-Iko

The following section uploaded by a Wikipedia contributor looks into the origins of the lyrics of this famous song.

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32 This is not an Original Research assertion. Nor is it a personal opinion or personal invention. It’s a purely factual sentence. I suggest it’s allowed to stand or that you provide proof that the sentence emanates from Original research, personal invention, personal analysis or personal opinion

The African/Creole/Native American origin

"Iko, Iko" made its debut as "Jock-o-mo" in 1953 when it was sung by Sugar Boy Crawford. One version of his song can be heard by clicking on to www.deezer.com and entering 'Jockomo' in the search box. However the song changed its name to 'Iko, Iko' in 1965 when the Dixie Cups made it into an international hit.

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. You said "the ENTIRETY of your additions to the article were Original Research”.

I disagree with the ENTIRETY accusation because the above paragraph is word for word the opening paragraph of the Section you eliminated, but the assertions I made therein were definitely not Original Research or the result of personal analysis, opinion or invention.

May I say why?

1 -It is an undeniable FACT that Jock-o-mo was released by the Checkers label in 1953 (it’s published on the record sleeve and printed on the record. I can send you a scanned copy) 2 – it is an undeniable FACT that the song was sung by Sugar Boy Crawford and the Canecutters (as noted on the sleeve)' 3 – it is an undeniable FACT that you can hear James Crawford’s original song today on Deezer.com (type Jack-o-mo into the search box) 4 - it is an undenaible FACT that the song’s name was changed to Iko Iko by the Dixie Cups (it’s published on the record sleeve and printed on the record. I can send you a copy of the Red Bird record sleeve),  5 -it is an undeniable FACT that it was released by Red Bird records in 1965 (record sleeve).'

'''However, as the entire section was eliminated by you as being Original Research, I’d like to know which particular one of the facts above qualified as being Original Research, personal invention, personal opinion of personal analysis. '''

'''I’d be grateful for this revelation so I can avoid repeating the mistake and learn more about the nuances of Original Research. '''

'''Perhaps your elimination of the entire section wasn’t due to the factual elements above but to the last two words - my calling the song an “international hit”? Perhaps this was in your view ‘Original Research’?'''

Let us start with the single word ‘hit’.'

'''Wikipedia itself classifies a ‘hit’ as a song that has ranked in the Billboard Hot 100 in the US or in the Top 75 in the UK. You can verify this by looking up Wikipedia.'''

'''The Dixie Cup’s version placed at number 20 on the Billboard Hot 100 in 1965 and the Belle Stars’ version placed at number 14 in 1989. Thus there is PUBLISHED evidence for the song being called a ‘hit’, as defined by Wikipedia itself. It was a PUBLIHED SOURCE I was quoting – not Original Research nor personal opinion, personal invention or personal analysis. '''

Or perhaps you felt that calling it ‘international’ was Original Research or personal analysis or personal invention or personal analysis on my part?

In that case, please consider the following. '''In the sections previous to the Section 4 which I wrote, the song’s recording history is given by other contributor’s in Section 2. That was my source for calling it ‘international’ because the song reached the Top Ten in the UK with singer Natasha England, it was released by Australian Rolf Harris, by the Englishman Long John Baldry, and by the German ‘Captain Jack’. On You Tube you can even see a Japanese version.'''

How much more ‘international’ does one have to get?

'''I therefore submit that there is enough published and historical proof for the original opening sentence to stand and refute your allegation that it is entirely due to Original Research, or personal opinion, personal analysis or personal invention. We go now to the next section you eliminated.)'''

The song's words are neither impenetrable nor gibberish, as many have thought. They are also neither old French nor Cajun French in origin. They are a mix of three languages:

-Kreyol Lwizian (Louisiana Creole) which used to be the lingua franca of the old French colony of Louisiana

-words from the Native American Muskogean Languages including the Choctaw, Chickasaw and Houma tribes. . The language differences between these various tribes was resolved by the emergence of a common simple Native American language to facilitate communication and trade. It was known as Mobilian Trade Jargon, its name originating from the Indians around Mobile, Alabama.

-and words from the Gambian languages

The words of 'Iko, Iko" come from these three sources - Creole French, Mobilian Trade Jargon and Gambian – and this will be demonstrated in detail below.

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. Serious published sources are the backbone of this passage, not Original Research or personal opinions or personal analysis as you allege. 

May I explain?

'''1. Iko Iko is undeniably a Mardi Gras New Orleans chant. This is not my opinion, nor is it Original research. It is a stated and published confirmation from the song’s composer himself, James Crawford, who wrote the chants down phonetically after hearing two Black “Indian” tribes chanting in a ritual face-off in New Orleans at Mardi Gras in 1953. As sources are important to over-turn Original Research accusations from Wiki editors, please understand that the source of his comment is included in an interview Crawford gave - quoted in the references in the original Wikipedia article given in Section 3 above (which you have already reviewed and approved and which was not written by me) but which contains the source reference in which the composer’s interview was published. I therefore assume that I am not offending the tenets of Original Research in asserting that the song’s origin is in New Orleans. It’s not my personal opinion; it’s a confirmation from the man who actually wrote the song.'''

'''Establishing that the song Iko Iko is a New Orleans song is just the start. Next we must prove WHO in New Orleans wrote the original chant of the song.'''

'''2 Over the last two hundred years there have been a great number of languages spoken in New Orleans. This information does not emanate from Original Research I conducted - it is published information you will find on New Orleans City’s own official tourism site – www.neworleansonline.com which I presume to be an acceptable source because if the official representatives of New Orleans don’t know about their own city and its inhabitants and history, who would?''' The languages quoted by this source to have been spoken in New Orleans over the last 200 years were  1 English,  2 French (they once owned Louisiana),  3 Creole (pidgin French), 4 Spanish (they also once owned Louisiana),  5 Native American (they actually lived there), 6 French Cajun (they arrived in Louisiana in the late 18th century),  7 Remnants of the languages of African slaves originating from Gambia, ' 8 And the languages of other European immigrants such as the Greeks,  9 the Italians,  10 the Croats '''11 the Germans.  12 and some Yiddish was also spoken amongst the Jewish population of the city.'''

'''3. The song Iko Iko was therefore composed by someone from the above 12 ethnic backgrounds present in New Orleans. You will accept I hope that a New Orleans song must have emanated from someone from one of those ethnic populations of New Orleans i.e. that the chant is unlikely to have been composed by a Mongolian shepherd from Ulan Bator, an aborigine warrior from New South Wales, or a Japanese Bushido knight.'''

'''4. However not a single word of the Iko Iko chant can be found in 9 out of 12 of the languages mentioned on the New Orleans Official Tourism site. It follows that those languages were not the originators of the lyrics of the chant.'''

''5. Those nine languages which do not contain a single word from the Iko Iko chant are now cited below. I list each of them together with the source to prove the inexistence of any of Iko Iko’s words in that language.'''

'''For this proof, I have used the authoritative, published dictionaries of that language- which I presume does not offend against the Wiki Original Research principles. If it is wrong of me to assume that published dictionaries are acceptable (i.e. not Original Research), I would be grateful if you would let me know. The nine languages whose dictionaries contain not one of the words in the Iko Iko chant are: ''' 1 English (source Webster’s English Dictionary), '''2 French (source Larousse and the eminent HarperCollins Robert), 3 Spanish (source Oxford Spanish dictionary),'' 4 Cajun (source A Dictionary of the Cajun Language by Reverend Jules O. Daigle), 5 and collectively the Greek, German, Croat, Italian and Yiddish languages (the source for all five languages being the official Oxford dictionary for these languages).

'''6. In other words, nine published and widely accepted sources (which are the primary dictionaries of nine of the languages spoken in New Orleans over the last 200 years) do not contain a single word of the Iko Iko chant. Its lyrics are simply not part of those languages.'''

''7. However ALL the words of Iko Iko are found in the dictionaries of THREE of the languages that the New Orleans Official Tourist Board tells us were spoken in New Orleans. These are:''' (A) Seven Dictionaries in the Creole language, (B) Four Dictionaries in the Native American tongues of the Choctaw, Chickasaw and Houma tribes and the Mobilian Trade Jargon Language, (C) and finally a published source for the Gambian origin of one of the words of the song.

A. The seven Creole Dictionaries containing Iko Iko’s words are:  1 ‘Dictionary of Louisiana Creole’ by Albert Valdman  2 ‘Le Dictionnaire Créole ' 3 ‘Le Dictionnaire Sioudi’  4 ‘Louisiana Creole Vocabulary’  5 ‘The Creole/English Wordlist’ 6 ‘The Verbix Creole conjugator’ 7 ‘Webster’s Creole-English Dictionary’

Each of the above dictionaries contains each of the Creole words mentioned in the Iko Iko chant.

B. The four Native American dictionaries containing the Native American words of Iko Iko are: '''1 Dictionary of the Choctaw Language (The Connecticut Academy of Arts and Sciences) by Cyrus Byington. It’s available for sale on Amazon.com at $72.54, but they also sell some second hand copies if you’d like to save yourself some money.''' '''2 Introduction to Chickasaw - Edited by Richard L. Eby. It’s available for sale on Amazon.com at $49.95, but alas without second hand copies.''' '''3 Houma source - http://encyclopedia.farlex.com/Houma. The Houma have now largely converted to Catholicism and speak Cajun French. Their Native American language was however very similar to the Choctaw and Chickasaw tongues''' '''4 Mobilian Trade Jargon dictionary by Professor Emanuel Drechsel, the world’s number 1 recognized linguist on the Mobilian language. If you do not know what Mobilian Trade Jargon means, you can look it up in Wikipedia. It has its own page. You won’t have to pay to consult this dictionary because it’s published free by Google.'''

Each of the above four published Native American dictionaries listed contains each of the Native American words mentioned in the Iko Iko chant.

'''C. The official web site of the Grateful Dead for the one African word included in the chant. The reference is quoted below in a later section (clearlight.com).'''

'''The above 7 reasons have, I hope, demonstrated that the statement that the origins of the words of Iko Iko were African, Creole and Native American in origin was not, as you alleged, concocted out of Original Research but anchored in published information from published sources. It is neither personal opinion nor something I personally invented, nor is it as you allege ‘personal analysis’.'''

'''I therefore submit that my original sentence (which you excised wholesale) be allowed to be published intact. If you disagree, I would appreciate it that you prove that that what I wrote is Original research, personal invention, personal opinion, or personal analysis, with reasons to back up your opposition to the sentence being published in Wikipedia. I think it only fair to ask you to give reasons – because as I’m giving the reasons and sources to prove that what I write isn’t Original research, it is only equitable that you do so as well if you disagree with me. Now we proceed to the next part – the relative rarity of these old languages in the New Orleans of today).'''

Sadly, today, Louisiana French Creole and Mobilian are rare and the practice of the African languages has disappeared. Louisiana Creole is still heard in some rural areas and parts of central Louisiana but it is not heard in New Orleans any more. Only words and phrases remain – whilst the Mobilian Native American tongue is even rarer - and no one speaks any of the old African slave languages anymore

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32.  This is not Original Research, or personal invention or personal opinion or personal analysis.  The information on the diminishing use of Creole comes in fact from Wiki itself - a published source - a Wiki article on the Louisiana Creole people. To find it simply type into Google ‘Wiki Louisiana Creole People’.

'''A second published source backing up what I wrote about the disappearance of Creole is the New Orleans Official Tourist site (which should know its own city better than other experts) who say, and I quote: ‘Creole French is seldom spoken but, the Creole accent lives on in New Orleans' food, architecture, joie de vivre’. You will find this reference on http://www.neworleansonline.com/neworleans/multicultural/multiculturalhistory/'''.

Given the fact that what I wrote about the disappearance of Creole as a commonly spoken tongue in New Orleans is contained in two published sources, I find it difficult to understand your elimination of the sentence I wrote as Original Research, personal invention, personal opinion or personal analysis.

As to the rarity of Native American and the absence of the everyday use of old African slave languages in the New Orleans of today, I believe that the fact that the New Orleans Official Tourism Authority does not list them as languages commonly spoken in New Orleans today as sufficient official source backing for my making the assertion.

It’s true I cannot cite a PUBLISHED source for the assertion that slave languages and Native American are not anymore the lingua franca of New Orleans, but it’s just as impossible to find a PUBLISHED source to say that Gaelic is not a language that is commonly spoken in the Solomon Islands.

'''I therefore submit that my original wording be allowed to stand unaltered because I believe you will be unable to prove that it emanates from Original Research, or personal opinion or personal invention or personal analysis. If you do object, I’d be grateful of you provide your reasons. Next we move on to the age of the original chant, another section you eliminated wholesale.)'''

Age of the Iko Iko chant

No definite date for the chant’s origin has been established. It is however a matter of historical record that masked Black “Indian” face-off’s during Mardi Gras started in the 1850’s.

The chant of Iko Iko being in Creole and Native American with the inclusion of one African word (proved below) means the chants were composed when those languages were still spoken in the city and when some memory of the old slave African languages still persisted in the Creole community.

A Youtube clip containing a rare etching of Creoles masked as Native Americans in a Mardi Gras 'face-off' parade in Canal Steet, New Orleans, in the late 19th century can be seen on You Tube. REERENCE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj6-irrsnsw

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. None of the above is Original Research – it is historically undeniable. The dating of the Black Indian face-off’s to the mid-19th century is published on the official New Orleans Tourist web site – see ‘The Black Indians’ section on the site where Arthur Handy specifically identifies the beginnings of these parades to the mid-19th century. The ‘You Tube’ reference is a genuine one as well and not invented or imagined by me. I imagine You Tube is not really an acceptable publication source for you, but I am not referring to the authentication provided by the video, but to the rare 19th century etching which appears in the clip. Please let me know if this sentence is acceptable or should be dismissed as Original Research together with your arguments for elimination of the sentence. We now move on to the French speaking environment of New Orleans).

The French Heritage of Louisiana

The south-eastern United States has two types of French speaking people.

One is the Cajun people - settlers of French origin who were expelled by the English from Acadie (Acadia) or Nova Scotia in Canada in 1755 and who after much roaming and hardship eventually resettled in Louisiana in 1764.

The second set of French speakers is the Creole people, who are the descendants of the settlers and slaves of the original French colony of Louisiana (La Lousiane).

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. You eliminated this entire paragraph on the grounds of Original Research, personal invention, personal opinion or personal analysis. However, each one of these sentences are historically undeniable facts whose veracity you will find in the New Orleans Official Tourism site cited above. I find it hard to see why you classified them as Original Research. I submit that you allow the original wording to stand intact, or that you provide reasons for them to be eliminated as original research, personal invention, personal analysis or personal opinion. We now move to the Creole accent).

Their language, Louisiana French Creole, evolved from the way the slaves of the French colony of Louisiana copied the way their French masters spoke. It is basically pidgin French and its syntax and grammar are much simpler and shorter than real French. The accent is also different to the French accent, being an accent that was African in origin - so it's basically African accented French. The words are foreshortened and spoken flatly in quick, rapid-fire delivery. It is short-form, truncated French - for instance, an English equivalent would be "Me go bayo’” for "I am going to the bayou."

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32: This is not Original Research.  It’s a description of the way the Creoles speak. If you speak (or have heard) Creole and have some smattering of genuine French, the description given above would be obvious, but I’m assuming you may nor be terribly conversant in either of these two languages (or you wouldn’t have cancelled the paragraph as Original Research). Perhaps your excision is of an academic or intellectual nature rather than being based on actually having a practical working knowledge of either language. I don’t have a ‘PUBLISHED’ source for the fact that Creole is not spoken in the same way as continental French - it’s like being asked to prove that a Scotsman speaks English in a different accent to the Americans – it’s a widely accepted fact. '''I can only offer to send you audio recordings in French and Creole to convince you that the two languages are not spoken in the same way. Please let me know if you wish me to send you these recordings. Now we move on to the published sources of the Creole language).'''

Unfortunately, the Creole language was never written down (seriously) for 200 years except for a few poems or songs. Now, it's starting to be, but dictionaries are rare, and often incomplete. Some dictionaries that do however stand out and which have been used for the purposes of this article are "Dictionary of Louisiana Creole" by Albert Valdman "Le Dictionnaire Créole" “Le Dictionnaire Sioudi” “Louisiana Creole Vocabulary” “The Creole/English Wordlist” and the “Verbix Creole conjugator”

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. The whole of this sentence is simply a listing of the published sources for Creole dictionaries and where they can be consulted. I find it hard to see why you eliminated it as Original Research, or personal opinion or personal invention or personal analysis - because it’s simply a listing of published Creole dictionaries. I assure you I don’t have the time to write dictionaries. I ‘use’ them, but I don’t invent them, and none of them are based on any personal analysis I can provide their authors with. '''I suggest that you allow my original sentence to stand unaltered because each of the dictionaries ARE officially published sources and accepted as such in both academic and intellectual circles. If you intend to eliminate the mention of these published sources as original research, personal invention or personal opinion or personal analysis, I would appreciate your advising me of your reasons for doing so. Now we go on to what I wrote of the Black Indians)'''

The Black “Indian” Tribes

African American Mardi Gras revelers masked themselves as Native Americans and formed coherent "teams" or "tribes" (also called "krewes") of Mardi Gras performers that competed informally in the streets during Mardi Gras parades. The African American "Indians" worked all year to develop elaborate personalized costumes, songs, dances, and drum rhythms. Through the socially permitted masking of Mardi Gras, African Americans preserved elements of their African heritage while appearing physically in public as Native Americans. This provided a kind of social sanction for overt expression of African pride, which in most cases and places were punished or suppressed the rest of the year.

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. This information does not emanate from Original Research I conducted - it is what you will find on the city’s own official tourism web site – www.neworleansonline.com which I presume to be an acceptable source because if the official representatives of New Orleans don’t know about their own city and its inhabitants and history, who would? The actual basis of what I wrote is contained in Arthur Hardy’s Mardi Gras Glossary published on the site. Amongst other things The Glossary says: ‘The Groups of black men in New Orleans who portray American Indians and are magnificently outfitted with handmade beaded and feathered costumes; this Carnival custom dates to the mid-19th century; among the more legendary tribes are the Wild Tchoupitoulas, the Creole Wild West and the Yellow Pocahontas. Now we come to the Creoles of New Orleans)

The African-Americans in New Orleans were mainly Creoles, who fraternized with other oppressed minorities such as the Native Americans, in particular the Houma, the Choctaw and the Chickasaws. Naturally, the ‘chants’ they sang were based around their own Creole language, words handed down by their ancestor slave forefathers, and the common Native American language of Mobilian Trade Jargon which was spoken by the only friends they had in other oppressed minorities they had in white New Orleans.

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. You eliminated this sentence as Original Research. It comes however from a published source, the New Orleans Official Tourist Board - http://www.neworleansonline.com. The assertion that the Creoles were oppressed is also not Original Research. It comes from a published Wiki article – New Orleans – which outlines the Jim Crow laws forced on the ethnic populations of New Orleans by white American lawmakers. I submit that the sentence be allowed to stand, or that you justify why it is Original Research, personal opinion, personal invention or personal analysis)

There are now about 40 Indian tribes. It wasn't always so. Jelly Roll Morton (born Ferdinand Joseph Lamothe), the American jazz pianist, bandleader and composer, was a 'Spyboy' for a tribe in his youth, and revealed that at that time there were only four or five Black Indian tribes in New Orleans.

The confrontations between the tribes at Mardi Gras in the streets of New Orleans are highly ritualised. The principal members of the tribe confront their counterparts in the opposing tribe – Spyboy versus Spyboy, then the Flagboys, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Chiefs, the Queens, and children. Finally, the Big Chiefs have their showdown, swaying and rotating and preening to show off their costumes. An acknowledgement of success is for the opponent to admit that the other’s costume is “pretty”.

Jelly Roll Morton mentions that the chants are generally in the 'Call and Response' fashion – which was copied by the way the Dixie Cups version of the song, with the lead singer calling out, and the response being echoed by the supporting singers.

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. You eliminated these entire paragraphs as Original Research, personal invention, personal opinion or personal analysis. They come however from the published book ‘Mister Jelly Roll: the fortunes of Jelly Roll Morton, New Orleans Creole’ by Alan Lomax; which details Morton’s youth as a spy boy and descriptions of the ritualized face-off’s. His real name – Ferdinand Joseph Lamotte – is not an invesntion of mine. It is published in the Wiki article on Jelly Roll Morton. The fact there are now 40 tribes comes from the list of the names of Mardi Gras ‘krewes’ and their year of incorporation. You will see their names if on Google you enter the search words “Krewes of New Orleans”. If you can’t find it, I can send you the exact reference.I therefore fail to see your justification for eliminating the entire paragraph as Original Research. I submit that it be allowed to stand, or that you justify why it is Original Research, personal opinion, personal invention or personal analysis)

The phonetic words of the song Iko Iko

The words as first sung by Sugar Boy Crawford are:

Iko! Iko!

Iko! Iko! an day

Jockomo fee no an dan day

Jockomo fee na nay

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. I find it inconceivable that you eliminated the lyrics of the song as Original Research.

'''How could they be Original Research? They’re the words of the song.'''

'''These are the lyrics sung by dozens of artists, and the same lyrics figure in the five major films where the song has been used as the movie’s soundtrack. I couldn’t possibly have had to ‘research’ to find them because they’re everywhere.''' It’s almost akin to someone writing in a Wiki article that the song ‘White Christmas’ contains a line ‘I’m dreaming of a White Christmas’ and being challenged to prove that this isn’t the result of Original Research.

However, I’ve thought about it, and the best way to justify to you that those are really the words of Iko-Iko, is to refer you to three sources.

'''1 The first is Deezer.com – by typing ‘Jock-a-mo’ into the search box you can hear the song’s composer, James Crawford, singing the song himself, and you can compare his lyrics to the lyrics I reproduced. They’re an exact match.'''

'''2 The second is to enter Deezer.com and type the song’s title Iko Iko into the search box. You will then be able to hear 111 versions of the song, all of which use exactly the lyrics I did. It couldn’t get more ‘published’ than this.'''

'''3 The third source is the song’s own published sheet music. You can buy the score, including the lyrics, on http://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtdVPE.asp?ppn=MN0068718. It will cost you only $5.75.'''

I trust that these three ‘published’ sources are sufficient to prove that the lyrics I produced are not the result of Original Research or my personal invention.)

The word "Jockomo"

Sugar Boy Crawford wasn't the only singer to use the word Chocomo (as he sang the word) or Jock-o-mo (as the record label misheard and entitled the song). The most oft-recorded Indian tribe, Big Chief Boudreaux and the Golden Eagles, issued "In the Morning, Jockomo", the Krewe Renegades recorded "Jockomo Zydeco", Huey Piano Smith's song "Don't You Know Yocomo" can be heard on Deezer.com and Danny Baker's song released on King Zulu Records had lyrics of "Choco Me Fee ndo Hey".

There have been myriad speculations as to the origin of the word 'Jacomo'.

Giacomo (from the Italian)

Jester or Jokester (Dr. John said this on the sleeve of one of his albums)

John Jolly (apparently a famous former Big Chief tribe leader)

Jacquemot (familiarisation of Jacques)

Jacomo (‘Birdman’)

Jaquotmo (man in a monkey suit)

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. You eliminated all of the above as Original Research. However, they are all published comments included in a TEN YEAR OLD music forum thread on Mudcat Café. 

'''Such has been the interest in the original words of Iko Iko that for TEN YEARS the thread ‘Jacomo finane?’ has been going, and is still going. It was started on 11th July 2000 at 1.25pm and is one of the longest continually running threads on Mudcat Café.'''

Each of the speculations of what the word ‘Jocomo’ means recorded by me above comes from these PUBLISHED comments in that ten year old thread of questions and speculations.

'''You are welcome to peruse the lengthy thread to double-check the veracity of what I wrote – log on to Mudcat Café and type Iko Iko into the search box. From the different identities of the contributors to the thread you will see that there are hundreds of people speculating on the origin of the word Jocomo, many of them advancing their own opinions (John Jolly, Giacomo, Jester etc).'''

'''Not one of the speculations which I reproduce is either Original Research, or my personal invention or my personal opinion. Each of them is a speculation PUBLISHED by someone on Mudcat Café at some time during the last ten years. I cannot understand why you eliminated them on the basis of Original Research, personal invention, personal opinion or personal analysis.)'''

Dr. John’s record sleeve for the album ‘Gumbo’ states that Jocomo was a ‘jester in the old tradition’. Dr? John provides no information as to where he got this information from. French, Cajun and Creole dictionaries all refer to a jester as a "fou", or as a "buffon" (buffoon in English) as the courts of the Kings of France did. Even the Joker in a deck of playing cards isn't called a 'Joker' or 'Jocomo' but a 'fou'. The word ‘Jocomo’ does not exist either in any Native American dictionary or in the dictionaries of the old African slaves of Louisiana (Wolof, Mandinga or Yoruba).

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. The above is fact, not Original research. It is also all published information.  You can search for Dr John on Google, which will reveal his discography and the album ‘Gumbo’ whose sleeve states exactly what I wrote. I didn’t invent it, he did. And consulting the French, Cajun, Creole, Houma, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Houma, Wolof, Mandinga and Yoruba dictionaries, all of them PUBLISHED sources, and whose references I have given earlier on, will clearly prove that not one of them contains the word Jocomo. I therefore fail to understand why you eliminated the above paragraph as Original Research on my part.)

'John Jolly' as a possible source for the origin of Jocomo has been advanced by some. The real John Jolly was however a genuine Cherokee Indian Chief who lived in Houston in the early 1830's and corresponded with Sam Houston over Native American rights in the then fledgling city. Jolly wasn't a Black Indian chief from New Orleans.

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. The above is fact, not Original research.""" John Jolly was one of the speculations advanced on the ten year old Mudcat thread as to who Jacomo might be. The fact that he was Houston based, was a Cherokee Chief and negotiated for Native American rights with Sam Houston himself is from a documented and published history of Houston. I even provided the Published Source in my sentence, but you still eliminated it as Original Research)'''

The speculation that Jocomo could be the French name 'Jacquemot' came about because it could arise from the familiar Creole name Jacques, to which 'mot' was added affectionately meaning "Small Jack", or "Dear Jack" or "Our dear little Jack" – much as Pierrot is used for Pierre, and Jeannot for Jean.

The case for 'Birdman' was the 'Jaco', which is Creole for a perroquet (parrot) and some of the Black Indian costumes are of men completely covered in feathers with a pseudo beak – le Jaco – easily turned into Jacomo.

'Jaquotmo' - the theory of a man dressed in a monkey suit comes from Jaquot (a monkey) but this is less likely because Jaquot is Creole for monkey in other Creole speaking parts of the world rather than in Louisiana.

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. You eliminated all of the three above sentences as Original Research.  However, they are all published comments found in the TEN YEAR OLD music forum thread on Mudcat Café which I referred to above. They are all PUBLISHED speculations as to the origin of Jocomo from contributors to the thread. Not one of the contributors’ speculations which I reproduce is either Original Research, or my personal invention or my personal opinion and I cannot understand why you eliminated them.)

The real origin of “Jocomo”

“Jocomo” wasn’t a name.

When James Crawford phonetically copied down what he heard, he didn’t copy it down as ‘Jocomo’. He states himself in an interview that he copied it down as ‘Chocamo’ and that’s exactly how he sang the song in the recording studio - as he relates earlier in this article – with a definite initial sound of ‘Choc’, not ‘Jock’.

It was the recording company who mistakenly introduced the ‘J’ and issued the song under the title ‘Jock-a-mo’, making it sound like a name, and that is how it has been sung in more than 100 versions and releases of the song in the more than fifty years since its appearance in 1953.

In fact Crawford was much nearer the truth than the recording studio.

The word he copied down as ‘Jocomo’ was a chant in Native American, “CHOKMA”, which means ‘It’s good’, as has been confirmed by three linguists of note - Professor Dreschel who wrote the Mobilian Trade Jargon dictionary, Professor Thomas Klinger of Tulane University, New Orleans and Ms. Laura Redish who runs Nativelanuage.org, which is a repository of all the Native American dialects spoken in the United States.

The word that follows CHOCKMA is FINHA, which means ‘very’ – so CHOKMA FINHA means ‘It’s very good’.

In the sheet music of the song Iko Iko, these words are shown as JOCOMO FEE NO, compounding the error made by the record label in using a ‘J’ instead of a ‘C’, together with the English phonetic notation of the words heard by James Crawford, who spoke no Native American and therefore had no choice but to write down in English notation the words he heard the rival gangs chanting.

The error has persisted for over fifty years and is the reason why the real words have eluded researchers for such a long time.

Laura Redish, herself a Native American, has provided us with an auditory description of what the word sounds like. “''Chokma is a common greeting in Muskogean Indian languages, and because the ‘c’ sound is unaspirated in most Muskogean languages, it has a sound midway between ‘ch’ and ‘j’ to English speakers. It could definitely get corrupted into ‘chocomo’ or ‘jocomo’ by a person who spoke no Native American. But the actual meaning of ‘chokma’ is literally ‘it's good!’ - as in ‘it's good to see you’, ‘it's a good day’''”.

Professor Emanuel Drechsel, an acknowledged expert of worldwide renown who wrote the Mobilian Trade Jargon dictionary, has confirmed also that "Very Good" or "It's very good" in Mobilian is "čukma fehna". Mobilian is the shared common language of the Choctaw, Chickasaw and Houma tribes from the New Orleans region of Louisiana.

So Jocomo wasn’t a jester, a birdman, or anybody’s name. It was a Native American greeting – “It’s good!”

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. To refute the charges of Original Research, please consider the facts submitted below:

'''1 - It is a FACT that James Crawford said he sang ‘Chockomo’ and not ‘Jockomo’. This is published as referenced in the previous section above in an interviewer with the singer''' 2 - It is a FACT that the published Native American dictionaries and the published Mobilian Trade Jargon dictionary state that CHOKMA FINHA means ‘It’s very good’ '''3 -Ms. Redish’s description of how the words are pronounced is not from a published source but from an email she sent me. I can produce the documentary evidence if you wish, which you can reconfirm directly with her''' '''4 -Professor Dreschel’s spelling of CHOCKMA FINHA as “čukma fehna” is also given in an email which I can send you and which you can reconfirm with him. The different spelling is due to the different accent in Mobilian compared to the Houma, Chickasaw and Choctaw accents, which needed the common and universal Mobilian Trade Jargon to overcome local language difficulties so as to permit trade and communication between them''' '''5 -None of the above is my personal opinion, nor my personal invention or opinion, and not due to interpretation or Original Research. It is factually what I was told by linguistic experts and what is published in the Native American dictionaries and the Mobilian Trade Jargon dictionary''' In the light of this, I hope I have secured your agreement not to dismiss this section as Original Research.)

The words "Hey now! Hey now!"

This is the opening of the Black Indian chant as popularized by the Dixie Cups. It's a call and response code - the leader shouts 'Hey now!' and the support singers respond 'Hey now! Future generations of singers followed the Dixie Cup’s lead and used ‘Hey now! Hey now!’ as their opening call and response. Some artists, Dr. John included, sing ‘Hed now! Hed now!’

‘Hey now!’ is however an invention. It was not part of the original chant.

This was not what Sugar Boy Crawford wrote down, and it’s not what he sang. Instead of the English words 'Hey now! Hey now!' he sang 'Iko! Iko!' - which is what the Indian chant was. As we shall see below, 'Iko! Iko!' are genuine African/Creole words - whereas 'Hey now! Hey now! are merely English words which have been conveniently substituted by later singers.

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. No original research here. The opening Black “Indian” chant clearly heard on Crawford’s 1953 gramophone record. I don’t know why you eliminated the sentence as being Original Research, personal pinion, personal invention or personal analysis. It’s a fact, not supposition.)

The words "Iko! Iko"

There is no case for a Native American origin for the word “Iko”. It simply does not exist in the Choctaw, Chickasaw, Houma or Mobilian dictionaries.

There are however four documented, unconnected and published sources for an African origin for the word ‘Iko’.

1 A web site called 'clearlight.com' identifies the Gambian call "Ago! Ago! - Amay!" (Attention! Attention! - and the response - We are listening!") as the origin for “Iko Iko an day”. There is historic support for this contention because many of the Creoles of New Orleans were the descendants of African Wolof and Mandinga slaves transported from Gambia to Louisiana by the French Compagnie des Indes who had the exclusive royal concession for slave trading for the old French colony of Louisiana up to 1803.

2 Further support for an African origin for the word Iko lies in Bamanankan, one of the primary dialects of the Mandinga language where "A Ko" means, "he says" (reference the Bamanankan Dictionary http://www.bambara.org/en/). The language is widely spoken in the area once known as French Equatorial Africa (Senegal, Gambia, Mali, the Ivory Coast, Burkina and Burkina) which was from where slaves were captured by the French Compagnie des Indes and taken to Goree Island for transport to the old French colony of Louisiana.

3 Yoruba dictionaries show "Ago" as meaning "make way",

4 In Yoruba Creole, “Ago” is found in Lukumi songs and Orishas. Yoruba originates from the Niger River Delta region of Nigeria and Benin (formerly Dahomey). Many Yoruba speakers were also brought to Louisiana as slaves, and the evidence of their culture's survival in New Orleans is documented. They tried to perpetuiate their ethnic origins with these songs which formed part of their adherence to their original religions rather than the Roman Catholicism they had been forced to convert to.

There are thus four plausible possible African origins for the word Iko i.e. the word “Ago” which in all four African languages has to do with drawing a crowd’s attention (Listen! Attention! I say! Make way!).

There is also a case for “Iko” being of Creole origin, but unlike the four African sources cited above, it isn’t from a published or authoritative source. The word “Iko” itself does not exist in Creole dictionaries, but it approximates to “Akout” - the Creole word for “Listen!” which comes from the French “Ecoute!”. The word ‘Akout’ chanted with a silent ‘T’ at the end would be heard as ‘Akou’ – also similar to ‘Ago’ or ‘Iko’.

On balance however, the claim for a Creole origin for the word ‘Iko’ is poorer and not substantiated, as are the claims for the African “Ago”.

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. 1 There is no Original Research in my statement that the word ‘Iko’ is not of Native American origin because all four sources for Native American Dictionaries are published documents – not personal opinion from me – and the word Iko or Ago does not exist in them.

2 There is no Original Research in the possible African origin of the word Iko. A. The ‘Clearlight.com’ reference given above is a PUBLISHED source '''B. The Bamanakan reference to the word ‘A Ko’ comes from a published source, an Article on Wikipedia itself – called ‘Bamara language’. The Bamara dictionary quoted above is a PUBLISHED document, which you can consult. You will be glad to know this will cost you noting, it’s a free resource published on http://www.bambara.org/en/''' C. The Yoruba dictionary referred to is published in London, Oxford University Press, called Atumo ede Yoruba, by Isaac Oloye. D. The PUBLISHED source for Lukimi and the Orishas comes from a Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santer%C3%ADa) which shows how the slaves tried to preserve vestiges of their religions through their songs

'''Accordingly my sentences concerning a potential African origin don’t come from me – they are not Original Research, personal invention, personal opinion or personal analysis. They come from PUBLISHED sources.'''

There IS Original Research in the possible Creole origin for the word ‘Iko’ being ‘Akout’ because it is a personal opinion (mine) so I have clearly indicated to the reader that the claim is unsubstantiated I submit therefore that the section be allowed to stand as it is.)

The words "An day"

"An day" as written down phonetically by Sugar Boy Crawford is pure French Louisiana Creole. It is "an déyè".

The word "an" is like the French 'en' (in) but accented in the Creole accent. In Creole it has a lot of meanings - 'to' 'at', 'in' etc (See Webster's Creole Dictionary).

The word "déyè" is like the French 'derrière' (back) but accented in the Creole accent.

So the combination of the two words "an déyè" means "at the back" or "in the rear".

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. None of the above is Original Research or personal invention or personal opinion or personal analysis. It all comes from published sources – the seven Creole dictionaries)

The words "Jocomo fee no an dan day"

The next section of the chant phonetically copied down by Sugar Boy Crawford was "Jockomo fee no an dan day".

A previous section has already explained that ‘Jocomo’ was ‘CHOKMA’ in Native American (meaning ‘it’s good’) and that ‘fee no’ was ‘FINHA’ in Native American (meaning ‘very’).

The combination of the two words means “It’s good very”. The reason that ‘very’ comes after ‘good’ is explained by Laura Redish of Native Languages Org. “Modifiers normally come after the word they modify in Muskogean languages.” So in effect, to say 'It's very good' the Native Americans would say 'It’s good very’.

The rest of the sentence ‘Jocomo fee no an dan day’ concerns the three words ‘an dan day’. These are not Native American words. Phonetically, "nd" sounds are not typical of Muskogean languages. Neither are they African words as confirmed by the Wolof and Mandinga and Yoruba dictionaries.

As an entire set of three words, "an dan day" does not exist in traditional old French, modern French, or Cajun French either. In Creole French however, the three words do exist. "An dan day" means 'into (or at) the rear'.

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. None of the above is Original Research or personal invention or personal opinion. The words “Chokma Finha” appear in all four Native American dictionaries and the words “An dan day” appear in all seven Creole dictionaries).

The word "An"

The word 'An' means 'at' or 'in'.

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. The above is not Original Research or personal invention or personal opinion. The word “An” is a Creole word and is contained in all seven Creole dictionaries).

The word "Dan"

The Creole word ‘dan’ is the short-form of the tradition French word for ‘in’ – ‘dans’. Continental French and Cajun French doesn't shorten the word to "dan' as the Creoles do, and it isn't pronounced as 'dan' but more like 'dahn' with a nearly silent 'n'.

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. The above is not Original Research or personal invention or personal opinion. The word “dan” is a Creole word and is contained in all seven Creole dictionaries).

The word "Deye"

As explained previously, ‘Déyè’ is Creole for back, rear, behind, after, following etc. It is exclusive to French Creole (reference - Creole/English Wordlist). Cajun or classical French would use 'à l'arrière' or 'derrière', but French Creole typically shortened this to "déyè".

They also pronounced it differently to ‘derrière’. In Creole it is rushed and is pronounced and delivered in a flat accent - ‘day yeh’ – a pidgin quick form of the longer ‘derrière’.

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. The above is not Original Research or personal invention or personal opinion. The word “déyè” is a Creole word and is contained in all seven Creole dictionaries).

The words "Jocomo fee nah nay"

By now, we know from the explanations above what the first part of this last line is: it's 'Chokma finha' which means 'It's very good' in Native American.

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. The above is not Original Research or personal invention or personal opinion. The words “Chokma Finha” are Native American words and are found in published sources i.e. the four Native American dictionaries referred to above).

The only remaining problem is the last word 'nay'.

"Nay" definitely does not mean anything in Choctaw, Chickasaw, or Houma and is absent from all their dictionaries. Neither is it listed in the Mobilian Trade Jargon dictionary. There are no real "ay" vowel sound in any of those languages.

Nor is “nay” an African word, being absent from the African dictionaries quoted above.

Finally, the Creole dictionary does not contain the word “nay” either. The closest to 'nay' in Creole is 'ane' (pronounced "annay"), which in all the Creole dictionaries cited earlier means 'year' and originates from the French word for year – année.

So in the final analysis, we have found no authoritative source for the origin of this one word in the entire chant. The nearest one can get is the Creole word ‘ane’ (‘year’ from the French ‘année’).

Readers should therefore be aware that in an encyclopedic sense, the chant’s is therefore not entirely deciphered. It is missing one word, the last word ‘nay’, which could be ‘ane’ but for which assertion there is no authoritative proof.

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. The section on the word “nay” IS Original Research. I have therefore stated this as accurately and clearly as possible so as not to imbue the theory I advance as being authoritative or in any way encyclopedic)

The English verses of the song

Over the years new English verses have been added by different artists since Crawford’s original verses in 1953. They include:

‘My gran’ma and your gran’ma, sitting by the fire’

‘My spy dog and your spy dog, sittin’ in the bayou’

‘My marraine said your marraine, I’m gonna fix your chicken wire’

‘My marraine said your marraine, I’m gonna fix your chicken wire’

'Look at my Queen all dressed in red'

However, these English verses are not the subject of this article. They were added by James Crawford because the Black “Indian” chants on their own weren’t long enough to make up a whole gramophone record. So the English verses were the support used to surround the chorus of the song, which was constituted by the two “Indian” chants he had phonetically written down.

This article only addresses the African/Creole/Native American chorus. The Black Indians who composed the original chant didn’t include any verses in English – they were black Creoles whose lingua franca was French Louisiana Creole, not the English of their white American masters to whom Napoleon had sold their lands in the Louisiana Purchase of 1803.

It would be more than 150 years before African-Americans in New Orleans would become fully Americanized.

So their chant was written in the languages they were familiar with: – African words handed down from their slave forefathers - Everyday French Louisiana Creole which they spoke clandestinely in their communities (it was banned by the white authorities) - And the Mobilian Trade Jargon of their friends the Choctaw, Chickasaw and Houma Indian tribes of New Orleans.

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32. The part above concerning the English verses is not Original Research but audibly proved by listening to the different versions available on Deezer.com. 

The assertion that the Black “Indians” did not chant in English is founded in the words that James Crawford copied down phonetically, none of which was in the English language, a fact confirmed in the published interview with him referenced above

The final part concerning the lingua franca of the Black Indian Creole population of New Orleans is not a matter of Original Research but of historical fact as stated on the official New Orleans Tourism site

'''I therefore submit that the above not be dismissed as Original research, personal invention, personal opinion or personal analysis. I f you do decide to eliminate it, please provide your arguments and rationale.)'''

The Whole Verse

As sung by Sugar Boy Crawford:

Iko! Iko!

Iko! Iko! an day!

Jockomo fee no an dan day

Jockomo fee na nay

Using the real words: 

Ago! Ago! (African)

Ago! Ago! (African) an déyè! (Creole)

Chokma Finha (Mobilian) an dan déyè (Creole)

Chokma Finha (Mobilian) ane (Creole)

And in English:

Listen! Listen!

Listen! Listen! at the rear!

It’s very good! At the back!

It’s a very good year!

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32 The above verses have all been described in detail above together with the published sources they come from. I therefore hope you don’t propose to excise them as original Research, personal invention, personal opinion or personal analysis. If you do, I would be grateful if you will provide your rationale).

Conclusion It’s unlikely that we shall ever see another chant like Iko! Iko! because the ‘tribes’ or 'krewes' who wrote the Black Indian chants are now almost completely Americanized and their first language is English, not the French Creole or African of their forefathers or the Mobilian Trade Jargon of their friends the Houma, Choctaw and Chickasaw tribes. The resources for writing a similar chant to 'Iko, Iko' in its source language are scant in present day New Orleans, if they exist at all. This speculation is obviously only a personal opinion. It may well be that one of the modern “krewes” will resurrect the language of their forefathers in a modern day Mardi Gras chant.

(NOTE TO JAYRON 32 Part of the above IS my personal opinion i.e that the resource to write a similar chant are scant in New Orleans today. I do however say so openly so as to avoid my conclusion being imbued with an authoritative or encyclopedic camouflage)

CONCLUDING NOTE TO JAYRON 32

I intend to resurrect the addition in seven days (to give you time to review)

I note that since you unilaterally excised my Section 4 without consultation, a complete new section 4 has appeared from someone else as a dissertation on the group Iko Iko (who have nothing to do with the song but are a group that has adopted the name of the song).

I therefore assume that my addition which was originally Section 4 will now become section 5

I would be grateful to know what the appeal process is in terms of Wiki editorship. Is there a sort of ‘Supreme Court’ of Wiki Editors I can write to? Or is a single Editor’s decision unchallengeable?

Yours Sincerely New Wiki contributor ‘iancully1111’) Iancully1 (talk) 12:33, 6 April 2010 (UTC)iancully1111

GA nomination of James Moore
Hi. I've reviewed James Moore (Continental Army officer), which you nominated. There are a number of issues, so I've placed the nomination on hold. See the review page for details.  Magic ♪piano 04:06, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

YMMV
You apparently haven't worked on any of our articles about climate change, 9/11 conspiracy theories or list of common misconceptions. Or maybe I'm just drawn to conflict. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 15:26, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I avoid those topics like they were on fire. You have a much more collegial editing experience when you edit areas like American football historical articles, or great North Carolinians of the 18th and 19th century... -- Jayron  32  15:32, 7 April 2010 (UTC)