User talk:Jcroasdaile

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~&#126;); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! ---J.Smith 19:40, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
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spam
Please do not submit advertisements to Wikipedia. Thank you. DS 02:53, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Kinetics, subsidiary of NCR - Deletion
I don't understand your reasoning for the deletion of this page... and should I say summary deletion without any notice. Someone already said it was advertising and I didn't realize the policies of Wikipedia and I modified the page to be historical factual profile of the company and they said it was ok. If this is considered advertisement then any company website is then so you should remove them as well. Please explain your reason for deleting the entry and why I was not given any notice to modify the entry.

The facts within the entry
 * company history
 * the recent purchase of the company
 * factual numbers

As far as I am concerned there was no marketing copy in these entries so how you call it an advertisement is beyond me. I also am bothered with the fact you did not put the entry in the deletion log. When it was put in that status last time it said I had 5 days to make changes so it wouldn't be removed. Again, I am new to Wikipedia so I am not up on all the inner workings, but I don't see justification for your actions.

Kinetics
Hay, I was noticing the issue with the Kinetics and I hoped I could help you get though this a bit without getting in trouble:) Have you taken a look at WP:CORP? The article is lacking any evidence that it passes the recommendations laid out there.  A good way to research more info is to goto news.google.com perhapse.

The idea behind WP:CORP is do differentiate the small hot dog vendor in new york (who is not notable in the least) and companies that are truly notable such as IBM and Ford. Where do we draw the line between AOL and John Doe's Hot dogs on 4th street? Part of what the article needs to address is why it is notable enough to be included here. Good luck, and if you have any questions feel free to ask! ---J.Smith 18:17, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

J Smith, My issue is... what is advertising and what is factual. I can add a lot of data on Kinetics, but when DragonflySixtyseven rips it down after what I put up I thought was non advertising it puts me in a poor position. Kinetics is a pioneer of self-service hardware and software with a larger market share of the US market than IBM which you have used as a benchmark (but if I put something like market share to give weight to the entry it is considered an advertisement). Kinetics is a subsidiary of NCR which is obviously a large entity and has an entry here so comparing Kinetics to a Hot Dog vendor is a poor arguement.

What I wanted to do it start the page small and then add so I make sure I'm not breaking any wiki rules by placing anything that comes off as an advertisement. I was very offended by DragonflySixtyseven and the fact he used CSD on someone who is just starting on wiki as well as where are the grounds for immediate deletion? I reviewed CSD and there was nothing present to justify his actions.

So on one hand I'm beaten down and then when I try to fix it by moving slower to verify I'm in compliance with the wiki I'm told add more to make it a worthy entry. I'm happy to take your guidance and I don't want to sound like I'm angry, but do you understand my position? I will look up what you advised, but if I make an entry and it is seen as advertising then the entry will be deleted without notice again??? This is my first interaction with Wikipedia, but it is very hard when you make an entry and get attact from different angels with arguements that conflict.

So how can I effectively add to the entry without worrying about admins like DragonflySixtyseven deleting it without any discussion. —This unsigned comment was added by Jcroasdaile (talk • contribs).


 * User:DragonflySixtyseven (talk • contribs) is a decent admin from my interactions with 'em. I think you might be right that he acted a bit rashly.  Unfortunately I don't have the benefit of seeing the original page, but if it was something that looked like it was a copy/paste from the corporate website, it would get deleted relay quick.  The problem is that wikipedia gets tons of marketing/advertising spam so people are really quick to react.  Please don't be offended... it's not personal.  I've even had one of my business articles marked once.
 * A comment about the market share would be great on that article, but it would also at the same time need to be Verifiable by a good source.---J.Smith 19:38, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Suggestion
Try creating it as a subset of your own page first - User:Jcroasdaile/Kinetics (company) or some such. Pages in your individual userspace don't get deleted unless ask that they be deleted; this way, you can ask various admins for their opinions on how you're shaping the page before putting it up in the main database. DS 22:11, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
 * If it's a good page you shouldn't even need to do that... ---J.Smith 23:21, 31 March 2006 (UTC)