User talk:JeremyML/sandbox

=Instructor Comments on Draft/Peer Review 2=

Thegodofchaos thanks for a great review, and for carefully going through your peer's work section by section you make good suggestions for improvement for both sentence-structure and presentation. I would have liked to see a bit more on the overall content, and where additions could be made. Grade: 13/15

JeremyML your peer gave you some great suggestions for rewording your sentences for clarity, and I see below that you have responded and plan to make those changes. However, this was also mentioned in your first review and I only saw one sentence that was reworked (but good job putting in some info on Hyginus); I would have liked to see more content added and more work done between drafts so your peer reviewer had more to work with. What's your plan for adding content in the coming weeks? There's a lot of opportunity here to expand the existing sections and make them really great, so keep at it! Grade: 11/15 Gardneca (talk) 11:46, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Peer Review 2
My comments are in bold, hope it is clear! Worship Road of Hercules The Road of Hercules is a route in across Southern Gaul that is associated with the path Hercules took during his 10th labor of retrieving the Cattle of Geryon from the Red Isles . Hannibal took the same path on his march towards Italy and encouraged the belief that he was the second Hercules . Primary sources often make comparisons between Hercules and Hannibal. Hannibal further tried to invoke parallels between himself and Hercules by starting his march on Italy by visiting the shrine of Hercules at Gades. While crossing the alps, he performed labors in a heroic manner. A famous example was noted by Livy, when Hannibal fractured the side of a cliff that was blocking his march. '''This could greatly benefit from an image depicting the Road of Hercules if such an image exists! Which Hannibal are you referring to? Perhaps a hyperlink to that Hannibal's page could answer that question. I feel like the third sentence could probably be combined with either the second and/or fourth and/or fifth sentences to make the third seem less out of place.''' Worship from women In ancient Roman society women were usually limited to two types of cults. Those that address feminine matters such as childbirth, and cults that required virginal chastity. However, there is evidence suggesting there were female worshippers of Apollo, Mars, Jupiter, and Hercules. Some scholars believe that women were completely prohibited from any of Hercules's cults. Others believe it was only the "Ara Maxima" that they were not allowed to worship at. Macrobius in his first book of Saturnalia paraphrases from Varro's actinology: "For when Hercules was bringing the cattle of Geryon through Italy, a women replied to the thirsty hero that she could not give him water because it was the day of the Goddess Women and it was unlawful for a man to taste what had been prepared for her. Hercules, therefore, when he was about to offer a sacrifice forbid the presence of women and ordered Potitius and Pinarius who where in charge of his rites, not to allow any women from taking part" . Macrobius states that women were restricted in their participation in Hercules cults, but to what extent remains ambiguous. He mentions that women were not allowed to participate in Sacrum which is general term used to describe anything that was believed to have belonged to the gods. This could include anything from a precious item to a temple. Due to the general nature of a Sacrum, we can not judge the extent of the prohibition from Macrobius alone. There is also ancient writings on this topic from Aulus Gellius when speaking on how Romans swore oaths. He mentioned that Roman women do not swear on Hercules, nor to Roman men swear on Castor. He went on to say that women refrain from sacrificing to Hercules. Propertius, whom in his poem 4.9 also mentions similar information as Macrobius. This is evidence that he was also using Varro as a source '''I think a semicolon should be used to join the first two sentences as they read like that anyway, same goes for the fourth and fifth sentences. What is Ara Maxima? Who is Macrobius and Varro? These can be answered by links to their respective articles! I feel that the sentences "Macrobius states that women were restricted in their participation in Hercules cults, but to what extent remains ambiguous. He mentions that women were not allowed to participate in Sacrum which is general term used to describe anything that was believed to have belonged to the gods. This could include anything from a precious item to a temple." Could be re-written to be more concise and have a more neutral tone. The same goes for "There is also ancient writings on this topic from Aulus Gellius when speaking on how Romans swore oaths. He mentioned that Roman women do not swear on Hercules, nor to Roman men swear on Castor. He went on to say that women refrain from sacrificing to Hercules.". I feel the statement on Propertius could have been lumped in with one of the sentences about Macrobius.''' Worship in myth There is evidence of Hercules worship in myth in the Latin epic poem "The Aeneid". In the 8th book of the poem Aeneas finally reaches the future site of Rome, where he meets Evander and the Arcadians making sacrifices to Hercules on the banks of the Tiber river. They share a feast, and Evander tells the story of how Hercules defeated the monster Cascus, and describes him as a triumphant hero. Translated from the Latin text of Vergil, Evander stated: "Time brought to us in our time of need the aid and arrival of a god. For there came that mightiest avenger, the victor Hercules, proud with the slaughter and the spoils of threefold Geryon, and he drove the mighty bulls here, and the cattle filled both valley and riverside . Hercules was also mentioned in the Fables of Gaius Julius Hyginus. For example, in his fable about Philoctetes he tells the story of how Philoctetes built a funeral pyre for Hercules so his body could be consumed and raised to immortality . Where does the quote from Vergil end? I'm glad to see some links to other pages! Hercules and the Roman triumph According to Livy (9.44.16) Romans were commemorating military victories by building statues to Hercules as early as 305 BCE. Also, philosopher Piny the Elder dates Hercules worship back to the time of Evander, by accrediting him with erecting a statue in the Forum Boarium of Hercules. Scholars agree that there would have been 5-7 temples in Augustan Rome. There are believed to be related Republican triumphatores, however, not necessarily triumphal dedications. There is two temples located in the Campus Martius. One, being the Temple of Hercules Musarum, dedicated between 187 and 179 BCE by M. Fulvius Nobilior. And the other being the Temple of Hercules Custos, likely renovated by Sulla in the 80s BCE. '''I don't think you need to say "Scholars agree..." here, just state what you want to say and cite it. I am confused by the sentence "There are believed to be related Republican triumphatores, however, not necessarily triumphal dedications. "''' '''Overall, I think you have added lots of great content, adding to the page significantly, however, I believe many sentences could use re-structuring to be more concise and neutral in tone. I think you have a few good sources, but the more the merrier! Hyperlinks to other pages would greatly benefit the sections you are adding, giving the reader the page that could answer any question your content might raise for them. Images could also improve your content if you can find any! Thank you for sharing your knowledge on this topic with me!'''

--Thegodofchaos (talk) 02:38, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the edits Thegodofchaos. I'll be sure to add the links to the various people in my article and change the sentences that you pointed out.

Instructor Comments on Peer Review/Draft 1
Camsara99, thanks for your review, and for posting a link to the page here on your peer's talk page. Your review is very supportive and encouraging, and I agree that your peer had a lot of praiseworthy aspects of their draft. However, try to be a little more critical (while still remaining positive, of course!) so that your fellow students have more to work with for their next round of edits. Your suggestions at the bottom of the review were most helpful, namely adding primary source citations, and neutrality. It always harder to come up with critiques for a good draft, so you need to push yourself a bit more to find areas to improve - for example, how would you rework some of the more ambiguous sentences so they are less choppy and more clear? Also, you know from your own research (and meeting with me!) certain Roman sources that might be able to add more info to the Roman versions of Greek myth (Hyginus, for example), and it would be great for you to mention the challenges that you faced since your peer may be facing the same issues. Overall, great work and thanks for such a positive review! Grade: 18/20 Gardneca (talk) 17:09, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

JeremyML you've done an excellent job of adding information to the new 'worship' section of this page. I agree with your reviewer that you should proofread and edit the existing work you have - there is no one major area to address, but the overall clarity can be improved by reading your work out loud or through a quick visit to the Writing Centre. Over the next week I'd also like to see you add primary sources to your page (as mentioned by your reviewer) - come see me for the work of Hyginus, I have a source you can use. Keep working away at expanding and adding info (I'm intrigued as to the road of Hercules and the splitting of the cliffs with vinegar...), I'm really impressed with what you've done so far and want to see you maintain this momentum as you incorporate the suggestions made by your reviewer this week. Great job! Grade: 20/20 Gardneca (talk) 17:09, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Peer Review
I think you did a great job of this article! Here's the link to my full peer review! Keep the suggestions in mind and keep up the good work! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JeremyML/Hercules_in_ancient_Rome/Camsara99_Peer_Review

Camsara99 (talk) 03:26, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Citation Exercise
I've recorded that you completed the citation exercise, JeremyML, but just a heads up that the sentence you wrote (and added a citation to) is unclear - please rewrite it if you are going to include it in your draft! Gardneca (talk) 15:38, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Annotated Bibliography
JeremyML I really like your goal of creating a 'Worship' section on your Wiki page, I think that will contribute a lot to the content. However, you didn't add an annotation for your Hirst article, so it's unclear how you will incorporate that. Also, I'm not sure how well your last source will fit in, since it's about art - you mention that you want to include info about the 12 Labours, but if that's the case you should find a source that is about the 12 Labours. Moreover, you'll want to think about whether the 12 Labours would fit into a page about Hercules in Rome since none of them took place in Rome - are there depictions of a particular labour that are more specific to Rome, for example? Please let me know if you need help finding additional sources. Otherwise, I'm looking forward to seeing how this progresses. Grade: 8/10. (one point deducted for no hard copy, one point deducted for lack of annotation on second source). Gardneca (talk) 20:09, 21 February 2020 (UTC)