User talk:Jggorst

December 2011
Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to blank out or remove portions of page content, templates or other materials from Wikipedia, as you did at Andrew Geller, you may be blocked from editing. Bryce ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 02:33, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Bryce, I am Andrew Geller's grandson and archivist. This post is full of errors and I am trying to correct some of them.Jggorst (talk) 02:37, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * If it's in error, I'll be willing to help, but - How is the article in "error"? -- Bryce  ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 03:01, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Jake, you probably have a strong conflict of interest in editing the article, and if you want to edit the article you need to declare the conflict on the article's discussion page. Also, information in the article needs to be based on notable, verifiable soures.  Original research, even the recollections of a grandson, would be tricky to include in the article.  But get to the point on the article's discussion page about the specific info you question and why you would be questioning Alastair Gordon's writings.


 * You deleted several pieces of information: the bit about the Boars Head logo. Alastair Gordon writes: "Joseph was a socialist and an accomplished artist, who, during the depression years, painted large commercial signs on the sides of buildings. (Among other commissions, Joseph Geller designed the logo for the Boar’s Head company, still in use today.)  So clearly you are questioning the noted historian?  You deleted the final bit about some career points following AG's leaving Loewy.  These are also itemized in the Gordon "Architect of Happiness" article.  Do you want to take up the disagreement with Gordon directly?


 * By deleting the information, you are questioning other sources. This is very tricky when you have an overt COI. So, probably best to discuss, declare your COI and go from there.  If there are genuine errors, consider this a process and we'll get to the bottom of things as a part of the process.  All the best. (I took the liberty of formatting some of the previous posts here for clarity).842U (talk) 03:09, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Jggorst (talk) 03:24, 31 December 2011 (UTC) I am sorry guys, but my great grandfather did not design the Board Head Logo. Alastair's comment from his book was not correct.  I do not have a conflict of interest here - except to make sure that this entry is accurate and that more rumors fly around like this.  It's bad enough we just lost my grandfather.  Now I have to deal with this?
 * Again, the article was expanded in good faith. Sorry it's catching you off balance or seems in any way disrespectful of its subject or the seriousness of an online encylopedia article, however easily derided Wikipedia may be.  And no offense intended about the assertion of COI.  It's a fair assumption that people close to a subject may not be neutral observers. In the meantime, please don't shoot the messenger: it appears you dispute information contained in Alastair Gordon's "Andrew Geller, Architect of Happiness" heavily disseminated article: 1) the Boars Head logo info (sourced to that article) and 2) a group of points about AG's career after Loewy (sourced to that article).  I wonder where Alastair got that information?  Hmmm.  Could he be mistaken?  Could you be mistaken?  In the meantime, if these are the only disputed items, that means that on balance, the article is accurate. If anything, the article appears respectful to its subject. Perhaps that's small compensation for whatever discrepancies do exist &mdash; either here or in any of the many, many heavily disseminated articles that have appeared about him since his death, despite the best of human intentions. It helps to recognize the article was expanded in good faith. 842U (talk) 03:53, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Jggorst (talk) 12:46, 31 December 2011 (UTC) I have been researching this material for nearly 15 years. I am a documentary filmmaker and make my living from researching subjects of all sorts.  I have to know what I'm talking about.  Many of my films have been broadcast nationally through PBS distributors and screened worldwide.  Unfortunately some errors have crept into the press over the years and have been repeated over and over - despite the repeated efforts of the family to correct them.  My great grandfather's vocation was a sign painter, fine artist and frame maker.  He had Boars Head as a client - and he painted their signs and trucks.  Believe me, if he had designed the logo I would be promoting that.  But he did not.  The Quiet House was designed in the early 1960s at the Loewy office and the Easy Care House was later in that decade - also at the Loewy office.  He also designed many vacation house systems - none of them actually called the "vacation house system."  Most notable were the Presidential Homes and the Kingsbury Homes, both done in 1966 at the Loewy office. These are all simple corrections.  Other than that the article is fairly accurate - but very incomplete.  Leisurama (which was the topic of one of my nationally broadcast films) was one of hundreds of his projects at Loewy's office, including interiors in the Lever House, and a great deal of well-known work for Associated Dry Goods.  The end of the article barely touches on his solo career - which is really where his most notable innovations took place (including such things as the restaurants in the World Trade Center - NOT a Loewy project...).  As time allows I will add these to the article, along with references.
 * Thanks for the update. It would be good to get bonafide notably sourced references for the information you put forth.  It must be doubly distressing when (or if, as the case may be) one of Andrew Geller's most staunch supporters, Alastair Gordon, propogates information that is, possibly, inaccurate &mdash; given that to question him, would be to undermine somewhat the credibility of, again, a staunch and vocal supporter. With all due respect to your credentials and your current situation, you would be well advised &mdash; when it's appropriate &mdash; to study Wikipedia's five pillars (e.g., "editors' personal experiences, interpretations, or opinions do not belong here.) as well as the guidelines on original research and conflict of interest.  All of these will pertain heavily to any edits you make, and how to go about them properly, where that is possible.  If you think the article is very incomplete, rest assured it's far less incomplete than it was two days after Andrew Geller's death &mdash; when it covered little of his life at all and contained only a single reference.  The broad arc of Geller's life is covered now, is almost entirely accurate, is written from a npov and contains 27+ solid sources.  I'd say it's headed in the right direction.  On the surface, it's easy to dismiss Wikipedia as lawless or feckless; it is in fact quite the opposite.  842U (talk) 13:44, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Jggorst (talk) 14:06, 31 December 2011 (UTC) The materials that need referencing for some of these corrections are found in magazine and newspaper clippings in the Loewy archives found the Hagley Museum in Wilmington, DE. I located these articles and have been archiving all of my grandfather's materials in the years since Alastair's book came out (the Boars Head reference is a quote from the book).  At the time, the materials in the book were as accurate as anyone knew - and there are really only a small number of errors that have been uncovered in recent years.  Sadly, my grandfather's illness made it difficult to fact-check with him.  But Alastair and I have discussed this in recent months.  Because so much new information has been uncovered over the past 10 years there is much yet to be compiled and published.  I should also mention that most of the false rumors that have circulated were put out by bloggers and some poor reporting by smaller publications over the course of the past decade - not by Alastair.
 * So then, poor reporting in the Wikipedia article wasn't the problem, either. The Wikipedia article is accurate, neutral, and covers the arc of Andrew Geller's life without undue weight to any specific area. As you've acknowledged that your current situation is trying, you can come back here when the time is right &mdash; taking into account WP:OR, WP:COI and WP:Five Pillars.  Heads up, sign your posts at the end, not the beginning, and indent per WP:TPG.  Thanks.842U (talk) 14:38, 31 December 2011 (UTC)