User talk:Jhhorwitz1956

Please do not add or change content without citing a reliable source. Please review the guidelines at Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you. OhNo itsJamie Talk 05:02, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Sorry--I am totally new at this.

This is about "Henry W. Grady High School" (sorry again--can't yet figure out the proper way to show that here).

My edit was based on info in the photo that I had uploaded via E-mail just after making the edit. However, James G. Howes contacted me by E-mail and, with his help and advice, I uploaded the photo again (properly, I think!) to the Commons and it should be ready to use.

The photo provides proof that the 1947 date in the lead-in paragraph (that was stated to be when the school was renamed from "Boys' High School" to "Henry W. Grady High School") is erroneous. The photo is of a plaque installed in the school building upon its completion in 1924. The plaque shows that the school had "Grady" in its name at least as early as 1924. Prior to 1947, the school was known generally as "Boys High" and, in 1924, it was already 50 years old. In the past few years, the "Henry W. Grady" name has become contentious for political reasons because the person carrying that name is widely believed to have advocated a post-civil war south that would have been based on white supremacy. (Note: My only opinion on this is that we learn from history, so erasing bad history doesn't help us improve. As a second level thought, and having been brought up in the south and seeing and being a big fan of the movies "Song of the South" (long hidden by Disney) and the marvelous "Driving Miss Daisy", it's hard to imagine that childhood environments wouldn't affect the thoughts and behaviors of their residents.)

Until a few hours ago, I hadn't located any info that reflects the school's full name earlier than the 1924 that the plaque and photo show, so I couldn't say for sure when the Grady part of the name actually went into effect. However, in a Google search a few hours ago, I just came upon the following at which I have not yet qualified regarding copyright or other requirements (each "..." in the extract below represents irrelevant text that just takes up space and could be included in the Wiki or not):

"Boys High moved into . . . building until the fall of 1924. After the Fall of 1924, Boys High would move into its final location on Charles Allen Drive and 10th streets. . . . APS superintendent H.R. Hunter approved the idea to combine both Tech High and Boys High under one roof. . . . The new school building would be able to accommodate up to 1,500 students, . . .  In addition to a large facility, the newly consolidated Tech High and Boys High would now be known as Henry W. Grady High School."

When you look at the photo, you can see that it actually presents the name as the "Henry W. Grady Senior High School for Boys". We also know that Tech High and Boys High existed on their joint campus beyond the 1920's and actually merged in 1947 (see below). So, putting the above together, here is what I believe occurred, but still don't have definite proof nor all of the info: Boys High was renamed in 1924 or so with the move to the new building and campus. Tech High also moved there and I don't know whether a similar name change occurred for it. The two existed side-by-side in that new building and some wooden "portable" classroom structures until the big school reorganization and their merger in 1947 (again, see below).

As to 1947, I can personally testify on this: When the smoke had cleared from the school reorganizations, there were just two levels of public schools in Atlanta: Grades K-7 were in elementary school; grades 8-12 were in high school. My HS class graduated spring of 1956. So we completed our first HS year, 8th grade, four years earlier in the spring of 1952. The senior class that year (1952) was the very first to go thru all five HS years under the reorganized system and at the renamed school. That means that they completed 7th grade (almost certainly in a still-existing Junior HS) five years before that, or in the spring of (ta da!!) 1947. And they would have started the 8th grade in their new HS in September 1947. I think that locks it down pretty well!! The merger of Tech and Boys' High Schools, the elimination of Junior High Schools, the K-7/8-12 grade reorganization, etc.. all did happen over the summer of 1947.

Assuming we can agree on my edit contents, did my construction of it survive somewhere or does this require a total redo?

Thanks with putting up with my slow learning--behind the scenes here is far more complex than I (and probably most users) could ever begin to conceive!

Jhhorwitz1956 (talk)
 * Your photo has been added to the article. However, it doesn't qualify as a WP:RS for establishing anything. The date on the plaque indicates the date that the school was built; it doesn't prove that's the same date that the plaque was installed. It's most likely that the plaque was installed after the school was renamed. On the other hand, there are numerous reliable sources that state the school was named after the journalist. OhNo itsJamie  Talk 14:56, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

The school was named after the journalist Henry W. Grady, no question about that. What my edit was attempting to do is to correct the date as to when that actually happened.

This whole issue "bloomed" in about 2017 when the 70th anniversary of the school was being talked about. But that 70-year number dates back to the date in the article, 1947. However, the Grady name was actually applied to the school (the "Boys' High" half of it) in 1924. The plaque shows that and my reference #2 (still pending research as to its qualifications for copyright and perhaps some further proof) fully supports that by reporting that the Superintendent of the Atlanta Public Schools had approved that name change with the 1924 move.

Now I wasn't around yet to see what happened in 1924, but I lived across the street from that new-in-1924 building when I was a little kid, so I know it was there and in use well prior to 1947. And I find it difficult to think they would have put that plaque there in 1947 (although it might have been moved in the building during renovations or changes in aspects of the building usage over time. In fact, since 1947 was 23 years (almost a full generation) later than 1924, if they were placing a plaque in 1947, they would certainly have at least mentioned some of the folks who were involved then and not just those from the 1920's.

So, maybe I can summarize what I see as the time line like this:

=
============================================ Prior to ca. 1923-1924, two high schools, commonly referred to as "Boys' High" and "Tech High", had been located at various sites in "downtown" Atlanta over the years since about 1872. (Not relevant to this Wiki, but there was also a "Girls High" and there might have been other schools, including religious and private ones.)

Around 1923-1924, the Atlanta Public School system created a new campus and building for both of the schools on Parkway Drive (Note: Parkway Drive was renamed "Charles Allen Drive" after I left Atlanta in 1959, but I don't know just when and that's not really part of this discussion although maybe the street name change should be mentioned in the Wiki). That school building is the one that housed the plaque in my photo. (I haven't been back in the building since 2006, so whether it's "still there" might need verification if we mention that in the Wiki).

The plaque also documents, and my second reference discusses, that "Boys' High" was renamed "Henry W. Grady Senior High School for Boys" upon the move to the new campus. So the "Grady" name was applied to the school ca. 1924, not in 1947.

After the 1924 move and name change, pretty much everyone still referred to the two schools as "Boys' High" and "Tech High". That continued until the "big change" in 1947.

"Big change" in 1947:


 * The two schools, "Boys' High" and "Tech High", were merged as "Henry W. Grady High School" (and commonly called "Grady High School");
 * Gender segregation was eliminated;
 * Atlanta's Junior high schools were eliminated (some became high schools and some may have just closed); and
 * The grade "split" was changed from three levels to just two: K-7 in elementary schools; 8-12 in high schools;

=
============================================

My sole purpose in editing the Wiki page was to try to correct what I perceive as a date error. Even though it wasn't in common usage, the Grady name applied to this school starting in about 1924, not 1947. And since that date showed up at the lead-in part of the page, that's where I tried to deal with it.

Where do we go from here?

Jhhorwitz1956 (talk) 21:57, 18 January 2020 (UTC)


 * Further discussion about the school belongs at the article's talk page, Talk:Henry_W._Grady_High_School. Before you reply, please review our policies on original research here, which is what your comments above fall under.  In other words, your personal recollection/interpretation of events does not meet our verifiability criteria.  You'll need to find an article or document that clearly meets our reliable sources guidelines if you wish to present a counterargument to what the other sources say; in particular, this source, from The Atlanta Journal Constitution and this one from Henry_W._Grady_High_School, the school's own newspaper. OhNo itsJamie  Talk 00:50, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

OK, thanks. I have to work on some other projects for a while, so I'll see whether I can meet the Wiki requirements for my edits to this article and, if I think I can, I will "talk" on the Wiki's talk page. That might take some time because some of the data might not be readily publicly available. Jhhorwitz1956 (talk) 21:01, 19 January 2020 (UTC)