User talk:Jkaharper/2020/January

Jack Smith (end)
With regards to Jack Smith (end) - any chance you may know if it's possible to request a death certificate from California? This https://www.mylife. com/jack-smith/e780942171936 public records aggregator website also has the 6/6/2015 death date for him, and though I can't find it elsewhere, I'd bet on it being correct due to the lack of recent mentions. Unfortunately I've seen it to be the case in the past (with NHL players as well) in which some will just assume players to be living, even without any recent mentions or news. If I recall correctly from further research on Smith, he was a dentist after his athletic career and lived in either Riverside County or Contra Costa County. Connormah (talk) 22:56, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi Connormah, thanks for the message. Interesting! Can you please cut and paste the information on Smith's MyLife page below for me to see? The website is now sadly blocked in the UK under EU law as it breaches GDPR. I wasn't happy using the source already listed on his page that gives a death date as the website admin by his own admission copied the info from an online football forum, but if the MyLife data backs it up, I agree that we should reinstate the date of death :) Cheers --Jkaharper (talk) 19:10, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Here's a screenshot of the info: . It seems to have some from some sort of public record I think (I also used it as a lead to find James Enoch Hill's obituary, which confirmed the info). I don't think that MyLife is a valid source to use here on a BLP (it's in the blacklist too), but I'm leaning towards Smith not being still living. I wonder where that forum post they got the info was? Connormah (talk) 03:46, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm satisfied that the MyLife page backs up the website info - whilst Wikipedia doesn't like it as a source, it does take information from public records. My only doubt was, as you correctly identified, some amateur NFL articles that stated he was the oldest living former player. I now believe they just assumed he was still alive without verifying. The forum in question is here: http://www.profootballresearchers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5384&p=34046&hilit=bullas#p34046 A researcher listed his death then it was copied onto the Football Archives page. I'm now satisfied that their information is correct. If you're in agreement I think we should just reinstate the death date and once again cite this: https://www.profootballarchives.com/players/smit18600.html Cheers --Jkaharper (talk) 22:38, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Vinnie Bell
Hmmm.... This source, which certainly appears reliable, says that the Vinnie Bell who died in 2019 was indeed a member of the Ramrods in the early 1960s. It's my bedtime here now, but can we discuss conflicting sources on the article talk page? Ghmyrtle (talk) 23:27, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, I checked that source actually. Which page does it mention that he was a member of the Ramrods? In any case, I removed the section because it was sloppy and mostly unsourced anyway. It even had a different birth name and year of birth from the intro and infobox of the article! I do think there are two different people being confused here somehow. Thanks --Jkaharper (talk) 23:31, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
 * The info is on a pdf file - go into the site and click on the "essay" link. It says...  " In the very early 60’s, he started out as a member of the bands, The Ramrods, and The Gallahads. Shortly after that, he was briefly a member of the highly successful The Three Suns....".  I've only just picked up on this edit as well.  Clearly there are issues there that need to be resolved.  Obviously, I'm happy to get rid of sloppy prose (not mine in this case, I think!) and use the best sources.  I may not have time to look into this further today.    Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:03, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Happy to leave this to you. The paragraph didn't have a reliable source attached to it before and half of it contradicted the rest of the article, which is why I wiped it. I still think there is some degree of ambiguity here though. The Collins UK Hit Singles, 1952–2006 book that I have in front of me says they formed in 1956 and refers to him as "Vinny (spelling difference) Lee (part of his name not mentioned in his article) Bell". Somebody who edited the article also seems to think that this one died suddenly in 1966 (though this was also unsourced so I removed it). I won't touch the article again, and if you want to put a line in about the Ramrods using the source above then it's your call. Thanks --Jkaharper (talk) 10:49, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Perhaps consider this first. Suggests that the Ramrods' Vinny did die early (and it is also cited on The Ramrods page): http://www.rockabilly.nl/references/messages/ramrods.htm Thanks --Jkaharper (talk) 10:54, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, you're quite correct. I've tweaked the article a little.  Thanks for spotting the errors.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:35, 25 January 2020 (UTC)