User talk:Jlvsclrk/Archive 2

Times are changing
Take a look at this older Wikipedia version of the Top Flight Handicap.

Now look at it today after the update that shows its grade history, purse etc. Top Flight Handicap

I had not realized the changes over time. A bit depressing. Stretchrunner II (talk) 20:07, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Good work! So sad to see that grade steadily dropping - it used to be such an important race. I don't know if we should be showing the grade as I, II, III though - that was an old decision by the team, reflecting the original usage by the committee. I see its seldom used in sources anymore. Do you want to ask on the WikiProject page? Jlvsclrk (talk) 23:51, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I come read Wiki T'bred and equestrian articles quite often without editing. As as result, I try to edit with the idea of how the article would look to a "newbie" who perhaps came to Wikipedia because of the Kentucky Derby (check the view count on Derby day). We certainly could use more contributors but if they think it's complicated and see the work of "pros" here then they may be hesitant/discouraged from contributing. For new viewers it is extremely difficult to understand why there are so many variations of something so simple as a table. If they have to repeatedly pause to figure things out when reading an article, it is just plain annoying and the chances that they will return to read/edit are very low. If we format things that are simple and easy to understand it helps to get people to come back and then hopefully they might even venture to give creating/editing a try. When a "newbie" creates their first article we need to be careful. I/we have a tendency to pile on more info which is very disheartening for a "newbie" and I think we need to find a way to work with them so they do most of the editing and then are happy about their new creation. I started changing the Grade column for some of these reasons, plus IMHO that lonely "I" is just plain ugly, eg. Turf Classic Stakes. So, I was going to raise that point as part of a presentation for a standardized table (and also a standardized infobox). I gave notice of my plan on the Project Talk page some time ago; now I just have to get around to actually doing it. Thanks again. Stretchrunner II (talk) 15:53, 14 May 2021 (UTC) P.S. I'll have my 2nd COVID shot in time to finally (bucket list) go to this year's Queen's Plate.

Update
The following reflects perfectly what I was talking about with respect to getting new T/bred contributors. Note, this article contains only G1 wins including the B.C. Juvenile plus the US$20 million Saudi Cup and US$12 million Dubai World Cup. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft:Luis_Saez&oldid=1016128049 Draft:Luis Saez

Check out the Revision history, the new editor did their best and even came back days later to try to improve it. After that, they appear to have given up and departed Wikipedia. Sad, because their first time effort was earnest and commendable. On the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Horse racing I had made this suggestion on another similar decision-making issue: "I think it would be a lot easier for you and others who work hard to ensure quality for Wikipedia but who don't have in-depth expertise on this particular subject to leave a question on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Horse racing where someone knowledgeable will certainly answer it."

My "suggestion" is certainly reinforced by this Luis Saez article which was killed long after this 30 December 2013 post by knowledgeable and thoughtful editor User:Montanabw who goes to great lengths to get it done properly. Montanabw asked "Is there a jockey guru in the house?", and in the comments wrote: "We also need new articles on Luis Saez, who is now the regular rider of Will Take Charge and is now ninth for the year in USA jockey standings - I presume people in the top 10 nationally for a year are sufficiently notable?" - Stretchrunner II (talk)


 * Yeah, it really is sad when we lose people because they don't get a response. I'm thankful I started out small with simple edits and was contacted pretty quickly by I dream of horses and montanabw with tips and tricks because some things on wiki just aren't all that intuitive. I find the AfC page and process really offputting. Luis Saez should definitely get moved into mainspace. He more than met notability two years ago with Maximum Security! In fact it was my plan for tomorrow to create one. So should I work from the draft or start again? Jlvsclrk (talk) 22:58, 9 June 2021 (UTC)


 * I'd like to see Luis Saez restored as is to an article but add a stub tag. Then, leave a note on that guy's talk page thanking him for the good start etc. That way, you can improve the article and if he/she should one day come back and see a note of thanks they might give Wikipedia horse racing another try or at worse they would at least feel a little better. Offputting? You are being really generous! BTW, I have stuff to post shortly on the deletion of Broadway Stakes (NYB) and sometime ASAP I plan to post something on the Project talk page about the farce that the so-called "Notability" criteria applied to T/bred racing really is. Stretchrunner II (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 00:25, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
 * doneJlvsclrk (talk) 22:00, 10 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Just a drive by comment: it appears that no one is actually reading the SNG on notability, let alone applying it properly. I wrote the damn thing, and I believe requested input on it back in 2015 when it went live.  The idea was to prevent notable stuff from being deleted for foolish reasons, not to exclude everything not specifically identified as notable. , you really need to settle down about this. The main reason the Bway stakes article was deleted was because you had a copyright violation, and that's totally outside the scope of the horse racing project.  The question of whether these state-bred races (mostly an issue in CA, KY and NY) are notable is one for the project to discuss.   Montanabw (talk) 19:15, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

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Section move discussion for [[Belmont Stakes]]
An article that you have been involved with (Belmont Stakes) has some content that is proposed to be moved to another article (United States Triple Crown of Thoroughbred Racing on television). If you are interested, please visit the discussion at Talk:Belmont Stakes. Thank you. JRHorse (talk) 01:03, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

WP:AFC Helper News
Hello! I wanted to drop a quick note for all of our AFC participants; nothing huge and fancy like a newsletter, but a few points of interest. Short and sweet, but there's always more to discuss at WT:AFC. Stop on by, maybe review a draft on the way? Whether you're one of our top reviewers, or haven't reviewed in a while, I want to thank you for helping out in the past and in the future. Cheers, Primefac, via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:00, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
 * AFCH will now show live previews of the comment to be left on a decline.
 * The template db-afc-move has been created - this template is similar to db-move when there is a redirect in the way of an acceptance, but specifically tells the patrolling admin to let you (the draft reviewer) take care of the actual move.

Rich Strike
The page is definitely going to be eligible for DYK. Did you want to do a joint nomination of it once you have it where you want it? Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 03:03, 8 May 2022 (UTC)


 * I'd love to get it to DYK, but it's already going to be linked through ITN which is why I'm working a little faster than usual. Thanks for the work you've put in! Jlvsclrk (talk) 03:16, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Rich Strike isn't yet a bolded page in the ITN nomination, so the way I read it, it's eligible per WP:DYKCRIT 1c: An article is ineligible for DYK if it has previously appeared on the main page as bold link in "Did you know", "In the news", or the prose section of "On this day". Sammi Brie  (she/her • t • c) 03:37, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Precious anniversary
--Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:41, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Sonny Leon
For a day or two after the race, there was an article on the jockey, Sonny Leon, but none of us were able to find sufficient sources to support a stand-alone article for him, so Sonny Leon has been redirected to 2022 Kentucky Derby. Is it okay if his few biographical details (32-year-old Venezuelan) are added to the article? It looks like you're working on ITN/DYK noms and I didn't want to mess with it while that's in progress. Schazjmd  (talk)  13:47, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Never mind for now, another editor is reverting the redirect. Schazjmd   (talk)  15:23, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

ITN recognition for 2022 Kentucky Derby
Giving credit on behalf of the posting admin. Thanks very much for all of your work on the article. PCN02WPS ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 19:30, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Rich Strike
— Maile (talk) 12:03, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Conspiracy theory?
Hi Jlvsclrk, I recently took a crack at editing Kent Desormeaux, some info is definitely false because there is proof that there was no fall on December 11, 1992, he raced after judge hammer same day even following day, equibase has record of it, also the source saying desormeaux riding in Japan for three months to be with son is false, equibase has record of only 2 months. more info later, thank you, Madison
 * Madison, you are looking at incorrect data. These two pieces are very well documented. Maybe you should read the sources I cite. Jlvsclrk (talk) 23:09, 5 August 2022 (UTC)


 * What data is incorrect? Equibase is credited by one of the sources you cite as the official record database. I’m pretty sure they check. Also bloodhorse says he returns from Japan after 10 weeks.

I’m pretty sure they would not go introducing and writing data that was not correct. Common sense 50.81.166.34 (talk) 23:58, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Madison, as for Equibase, show me your evidence. Meanwhile, I'll take the statements in the LA Times and from his fellow jockeys as the truth. As for Japan, he went back and forth several times over the year, but spent most of his time there. Well documented. Jlvsclrk (talk) 18:49, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

What LA times says is something different than what one of the sources you cite say. It says he and Sonia Wed in 1990 https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-04-15-sp-1844-story.html, not that I fully trust just any of these. As for equibase, If you look at results from years, if you go to 1992, there’s record of him riding in races after judge hammer the same day, and the following day he was racing, not almost dying in the hospital. Aside from that, show me him going back and forth data from Japan.
 * The DRF article I cite says the first marriage occurred in 1989, but the LA Times article is much clearer on the date so by all means change that with the right source. (That's the problem with articles that are career summaries - they can blur dates). As for Japan, well, the article cited shows him shuttling back and forth, and the later DRF article says he did so over several years, and the Japanese records clearly show him racing there in both June 2005 and November 2005. Finally, as for the fall, that's really well documented and you really need to show your source to have a chance at convincing me otherwise. https://www.google.com/search?q=%22kent+desormeaux%22+1992+fall+%22judge+hammer%22 Jlvsclrk (talk)

2 https://www.equibase.com/profiles/allStartsPeople.cfm?eID=502&typeSource=JE&rbt=TB&year=1992 right here in black and white, also if the horse had kicked his helmet, the horse would have stumbled or tripped to rip the material off. Just common sense and records. As for Japan, I never said he never went, but if the drf article can’t even get dates right, how reliable is it?
 * every source in existence can have errors in specific data but that doesn't make the source unreliable in all aspects. You have to weigh your sources and understand how fact checking et al work. The DRF, writing in 2012, didn't fact check a date closely because that date wasn't important to the story. It doesn't invalidate everything else in the story. As for the fall and Equibase, what I'm pretty sure we see from your link is the fact that Desormeaux was BOOKED to ride horses on the 11th and 12th, so was stored in the database as the jockey of record. But he actually was in the hospital at the time as shown in numerous very credible sources. The track physician is quoted by UPI: 'He had several skull fractures but none requiring emergency surgery,' Kerlan said. 'He will probably stay in intensive care for another 24 hours and be hospitalized for several days.' https://www.upi.com/Archives/1992/12/12/Leading-jockey-Desormeaux-in-intensive-care/7802724136400/ . So although Equibase is generally our most reliable database, in this case, it too is wrong. Jlvsclrk (talk) 21:53, 13 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Wow, you are the most gullible person ever, if he was booked to ride and didn’t, they would have found another rider or scratched the horses if no one could fill in, mounts are booked several days in advance and equibase keeps track of changes and scratches. Doubt they would have just written him down as jockey. I have doubt about Kent even being married to this so called Sonia and that she is really the wife laffit pincay iii, the racing industry claims his so called ex wife is dating him, ironically, his so called sons look more like him than Kent, they only appeared during the 2008 triple crown run also they are not six desormeaux children, their is no actual other source in the racing industry biography saying they are 6 kids. Keith nor Kent never talk about them. They even talk about, the desormeaux family, mentioning only the parents, no other siblings, if not available, they likely would have watched another time. A lot of this like the drf story is probably just to write a story for the sake of writing a story. You said, show me the evidence, I did, you are just wanting either be right or are gullible, 2600:1700:4EA0:D80:DDE:6729:E5DA:494 (talk) 01:33, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The Sonia and josh and Jacob being his sons I believe was just a publicity stunt for Jacob, Kent never talked about him in a fatherly way after his racing wins like summer bird in the actual Belmont, would give his son a chance to see his dad win a Belmont, the drf Arctic or I believe is trying to exploit Kent’s struggles for an article.judge hammer fall was just a way to sensationalize a story, nearly dying, becoming a dad shortly after, getting to go home on Christmas Day, sounds like a Hollywood story, 2600:1700:4EA0:D80:DDE:6729:E5DA:494 (talk) 01:51, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry to be blunt but you are delusional. Do not post anything else on this page or I will delete it. Do not post on any article I see or I will revert it. Jlvsclrk (talk) 21:13, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

YouTube fall

Still is able to be debunked. Like I said horse would not have been able to tear felt off and not fall or at least trip. I’m not gonna stop reverting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.81.166.34 (talk) 23:09, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

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