User talk:Jmurdock21

"The Beard" Nickname
I am going to change this article to include James Harden's nickname "The Beard." A previous entry to reversed under the basis that "personal sources are not allowed." That logic is faulty because there is no official source for nicknames nor is there any way to make a nickname "official."

If you look at other basketball players' wiki pages, Dennis Rodman's nickname "The Worm" is mentioned, as is Michael Jordan's "Air Jordan" nickname, Wilt Chamberlain's "Stilt" nickname. etc etc etc.

If James Harden nickname is not allowed, then whoever removes it needs to remove Jordan's, Olajuwon's, Earvin "Magic" Johnson, and make the same argument on those wiki pages.
 * This is stupid. Jordan's, Wilt's, Magic's nickname are well established. Sources are everywhere if you look. Please don't add Harden's so called nickname unless you have a source.— Chris! c / t 02:11, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

So those wiki pages are subject to different criteria based on your opinion that Wilt Chamberlain's nickname is "well established?" Just FYI, there is no source for a nickname. I have yet to come across an official reference guide of nicknames. If a nickname was "official," it would simply be a name.--Jmurdock21 (talk) 02:16, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * They are not subjected to different criteria. Those nickname are well established because sources for them are abundant. Google them if you want. Right there is no official source for nicknames, but we need source to at least verify that they exist and are actually used. There is no source for Harden's nickname to verify that it exists. For all we know this is a nickname made up by you.— Chris! c / t 02:25, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

If the criteria used to determine whether or not a nickname is official is to need "abundant" sources that can be found by "Googling." Then I challenge you to go to google and type in "James Harden T." Google will predict that you are searching for "James Harden The Beard." If you type in "James Harden Nickname," the results yield several pages prominent with "The Beard."

That meets the same criteria you have set forth for other players like Jordan, Rodman, etc. You are treating this page with different criteria based on your subjective opinion that Harden's nickname isn't as "well known" as guys like Jordan.--Jmurdock21 (talk) 02:31, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok. Are those source reliable? We are not going to use fan's pages, forums, etc as sources. Good sources are news articles by major media like the one I show you. The entire point is that we need to make sure nicknames exist and are actually used. Only good sources can work to do that. If you can't provide a source for a nickname, then it should not be in an article. Period.— Chris! c / t 02:42, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Then the same argument applies to Jordan, Magic, etc, and all nicknames should be removed from wiki pages.

You will be hard pressed to find, in print, writing that says, Shaquille O'Neal's official nickname is "Shaq." It is used in passing by journalists, fans, and other athletes until it is accepted as real. However, the criteria you've given me is subjective and needs to be more clearly defined.

Basically what we have is, James Harden's nickname can't go in, but Wilt Chamberlain's can. Why? Because Wilt's is more famous. How do you know that? Truth is, we don't.

Therefore, we have 2 identical situations treated differently based on subjective point of view.
 * No, 2 different situations treated differently. Wilt Chamberlain's nickname is well established by sources, so it is in. Harden's nickname is not well established by sources, so it is out.— Chris! c / t 02:50, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

So by your new rationale, if I can find enough "legit" sources that call James Harden "The Beard" than it can go in? Whether you require 100 or 10,000 instances of that occurrence, it could be found. I am certain there is at least a minimum of 10,000 different people who have referred to James Harden as "The Beard." But to force someone to meet that requirement is preposterous, and I can guarantee whomever listed the nicknames for Shaq or The Worm wasn't required to meet that same criteria. --Jmurdock21 (talk) 02:59, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I am not going to argue endlessly. I already explain everything above. No source = should not be in an article. That's it.— Chris! c / t 03:07, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

It appears that this is going on endlessly. Nevertheless, in all of your explaining, you failed to clearly define what is an acceptable source vs. what isn't. You first used the "well known" & Google criteria, and when that was met, you changed your tune and said that was no longer acceptable. You did not clearly define why James Harden's profile is treated differently other than subjective opinion. Criteria should be easily definable and measurable. Your criteria was neither. --Jmurdock21 (talk) 03:19, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * What. Did you read what I said? I highlighted it for you to see.— Chris! c / t 03:24, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Your recent edits
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June 2012
Please do not add or significantly change content without citing verifiable and reliable sources. Before making any potentially controversial edits, it is recommended that you discuss them first on the article's talk page. Please review the guidelines at Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. ♥ Solarra ♥ ♪ Talk ♪  ߷  ♀ Contribs ♀ 02:22, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

The Beard
The problem is that many people add ridiculous nicknames for people. If there is no source, how do I (or others) know you are not just one of those making it up? A mention of it such as this NYT article might be sufficient: Though, it is not capitalized as "The Beard". Cheers Jim1138 (talk) 02:59, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think that article ever uses "The Beard" as a nickname. The writer is literally talking about the facial hair. Zagal e jo^^^ 03:44, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

It is not uncommon for a writer to label an athlete with a positive or derogatory nickname never used before based on recent actions or performances. Based on that rationale, it would be okay to include a once only used derogatory nickname that was included in an AP article.--Jmurdock21 (talk) 03:03, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * No, you have to use editorial judgement, too... But these issues should be discussed in a centralized location, like Talk:James Harden. I'll head over there now. Zagal e jo^^^ 03:44, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * But I should say, for the record, that I never reverted you. I was reverting a different user, who was trying to insert a different nickname into the article. ("The Pharaoh", which really isn't used anywhere, as far as I can tell.) Zagal e jo^^^ 04:06, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

A belated welcome!
Here's wishing you a belated welcome to Wikipedia, Jmurdock21. I see that you've already been around a while and wanted to thank you for your contributions. Though you seem to have been successful in finding your way around, you may benefit from following some of the links below, which help editors get the most out of Wikipedia: Also, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); that should automatically produce your username and the date after your post.
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Again, welcome! —Bagumba (talk) 04:32, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

July 2013
Hello, I'm Flyer22. I wanted to let you know that I undid one of your recent contributions, such as the one you made with this edit to Robin Williams, because it didn’t appear constructive to me. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. Flyer22 (talk) 19:05, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.
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 * I didn't want to reply there because it's way too long as it is, but I just wanted to thank you for correcting me on the 1992 bit. After checking sources, you're right, it was HGH which caused that dispute.LM2000 (talk) 18:27, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

August 2014
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