User talk:Joe bock

Joe Bock
Thanks for adding the Joe Bock article to Wikipedia. Please note that Wikipedia has certain rules and, for that reason, the article has been added to satisfy the rules. The Welcome info at the top of this page has links to the rules. I hope you enjoy the article, and I am sure that other Wikipedians will add to it in the future. By the way, I am from Rochester, your dad's hometown. Thanks again. Truthanado (talk) 00:47, 24 December 2008 (UTC) Hello, you used the helpme tag but you did not post a question. Please write out your question and when you are done, place back the tag. I or someone else will be along to help. Alternatively, you can join the #wikipedia-en-help IRC help channel to get real-time assistance. (Click here for instant access). Joe Bock 12/27/08 22;14 PM ```` // roux    03:17, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Hello, you used the helpme tag but you did not post a question. Please write out your question and when you are done, place back the tag. I or someone else will be along to help. Alternatively, you can join the #wikipedia-en-help IRC help channel to get real-time assistance. (Click here for instant access). NuclearWarfare  contact me My work 03:20, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the message on my talk page. By luck, I stumbled across this article shortly after it was created. By even further luck, I happen to also be from Rochester ... who woulda thunk? Anyway ... The article satisfies the required Wikipedia notability for athletes as defined in WP:ATHLETE; Joe Bock played at "the fully professional level of a sport." That is important because non-notable articles do not belong on Wikipedia. As much as some would like to believe, not everyone is entitled to a Wikipedia article, only those that satisfy certain criteria. The "three big blocks" at the top of the page are what we call maintenance tags, they are nothing to worry about; they are added by Wikipedia users to help improve articles ... other Wikipedians see the tags and do what they can to satisfy the weakness that each tag identifies. In this case, the tags are no longer needed; they have been satisfied and have been removed. You added some references as external links, for example. See Talk:Joe Bock. You're doing great as a newcomer. Keep it up. Ask questions of others when needed. Remember that the Help desk is always available. Happy holidays. Truthanado (talk) 03:42, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Offer of help
You can ask a question here or on on my talk page and I will try and help you out. Mfield (talk) 03:21, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Wow, fantastic, thank you truthanado, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP. It is somewhat difficult navigating through this. That is funny you are fdrom Rochester. One last question, how can the personal section be put back in with the part about my son being named after my high school coach? Does that not fall in the guidelines? It was in there for a couple days and now gone. Thank you so much for your help. We are definitely beginners. Joe Bock 12/27/08/22:59 pm ````


 * Re the section about your son's name and the coach. It was me that removed that. The problem is that it needs to be reported elsewhere per WP:BLP. I am sure you understand the importance of keeping the truth in a biographical article on a living person, you would want uncited slanderous information removed and that safeguard is the same one that prevents any unreferenced information from being included. If you had written a book, or done an interview (or even had a bio on your own website or blog that made this claim then as it is non controversial) then it could be referenced to there and added back in. I removed the section about your family members names and years of birth for privacy reasons as they are not of any direct relevance to the subject of the article. Mfield (talk) 04:05, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Your recent edits
Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment. If you can't type the tilde character, you should click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 03:54, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Some help for you with Joe Bock
OK, I understand the history of the situation. The tags have been removed from the article and an explanation left on the talk page so the situation is not as bad as it seemed.

A few things to understand about the tags that were placed....


 * 1) Notability - Wikipedia has standards that ensure that an article's subject meets a certain level of notability before inclusion. There are a lot of autobiographical and self promotional articles added by people which are subsequently and swiftly deleted every day. In order to avoid this from occurring, and to demonstrate notability, the subject's activities, accomplishments, notoriety and/or accolades need to be reliably referenced. This brings us to point 2..


 * 1) Reliable sources - what constitutes a reliable reference? The internet is full of self published sites - i.e. sites who's content is generated by a single person (often the site's owner) like blogs, and with forums and sites with user generated content (a lot of sports sites are run this way). Self published sources can be used but they will not rate very highly if at all when judging the referencing of an article. What is needed are reliable, third party, publications - think newspapers, sports pages of broadcasters, books etc., sources that have a degree of accountability and editorial oversight.


 * 1) Conflict of interest - if you are the subject of an article, or know or are affiliated with it, then great care has to be taken to avoid accusations of COI. Understandably, self promotional material has be to weeded out of a neutral and unbiased encyclopedia, and the sight of an article's subject editing an article, especially a biographical one will raise eyebrows and draw observation. The best way to avoid this is to declare your interest openly on the articles talk page and not edit the article directly, instead proposing changes that can then be made by a neutral editor. At the very least the declaration will prevent accusations of COI, even if the actual changes are disputed.


 * 1) Neutrality - to avoid problems with self promotion, with autobiographies especially, great care needs to be taken with wording so as to keep the article fair and balanced. This is not limited to the wording, but also to making sure that all points of view are included, controversies etc. even if you do not agree with them. This is another reason to avoid editing an article about yourself as if may prove difficult to remain completely neutral.

Note that none of these are accusations I am leveling at you in this case, I am speaking hypothetically to explain the situations that develop and how to avoid them. Mfield (talk) 03:57, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you BOTH so much, it really is great, thank you and for responding so quickly. This can be very complicated. Also, I have been signing with the four tildes every time since I came across it. Thanks again for the help. How should the personal part be added? Joe Bock 23:10 PM Joe bock (talk) 04:11, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
 * No problems. Please see my answer about the personal section a couple of sections up this page. You need reliable sources to back all information in a biography of a living person article. Mfield (talk) 05:24, 28 December 2008 (UTC)