User talk:JohnCengiz77/Archive 2

Name change on Ahmad Wali Karzai
Hi. The correct spelling is Ahmad. --AlimNaz (talk) 19:05, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Mohammad/Mohammed
لا أفهم, من أين جئت بالنطق الغريب لمحمد و أحمد, بكسر الحرف قبل الأخير؟ هذا ليس نطق عربى ولا ينطقه هكذا حتى من يتحدث لغات عامية عربية. أرجو أن تجاوبنى بالعربية. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 12:33, 16 July 2011 (UTC)


 * If you look at the "Vowels" section on "IPA for Arabic" you will see the IPA "e" as in pet for the sound of the letter "e". محمد is transliterated commonly in English text as "Muhammad" or "Mohammed/Mohamed".


 * There isn't just one pronunciation in Arabic or English, the final vowel in English could be the listed "ə" or "ɛ" also.


 * And in Arabic also, the "e" pet sound in the final vowel is highly common so I can't see why you can't accept this as an Arabic pronunciation, it matches up letter by letter in the Arabic IPA.


 * I don't think one can argue any Arabic implied vowel as just an "a" pat sound. John Cengiz   talk  03:06, 17 July 2011 (UTC)


 * لقد أثبت لى أنك لا تعلم شىء فى اللغة العربية ولا تفهم ما الهدف من الألف باء الصوتية الدولية :) التحريفات يجب أن تتماشا مع الجدول لكن ليس عشوائيا. . كل هذه الصوائت موجودة فى الجدول, لكن هذا ليس نطق فى اللغة العربية أو فى اللهجات المحكية. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 17:27, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I totally understand your reason behind your Arabic statements. I really do, but please avoid writing Arabic-only on the EN Wiki for the community to be able to follow. Btw, I love the "مصرى زى اللبلب" on your userpage. I love the way how Egyptians mix English and Arabic terms :p
 * I agree with you Mahmud, as I haven't also heard it. I haven't been to much Arabic countries, but I've met almost all nationalities elsewhere. Can you please bring a source for your claim John? Thanks you both     ~ AdvertAdam   talk  23:08, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Request about Mzali
Hi JohnCengiz77! Could you possibly add this Arabic name means? I'm thinking of Al-Masri... and Yılmaz and Deniz (given name). On a bit of a tangent, I can't for the life of me remember what the Turkish name that means "star" is. --Shirt58 (talk) 09:12, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yıldız, of course.--Shirt58 (talk) 09:21, 19 July 2011 (UTC)


 * That would be an interesting ménage à trois, although I'm not sure on the etymology of Mzali, other than it is similar to names such as Mzoughi and Mzoudi. They are possibly names relating to a place where the bearer is from. John Cengiz   talk  09:49, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Al-Fayed
Both the Bower biography and the BBC profile assert that the "al-" was added in the 1970s. Bowers biography provides more details. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 16:05, 25 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Do you know how ridiculous "which was said to have afforded him importance in the Arab world" sounds, when "Al-" is a part of the majority of Arabic family names. Often when written in English, the "Al-" bit may be ignored or deleted (Saad Hariri, Muammar Gaddafi), and just the family name itself kept, or it may be returned if the bearer feels like it, without the English press thinking you're a "phony" for adding some "title". John Cengiz   talk  16:16, 25 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Why would one decide to use the "al-" or not? Why did you move the "Fayed" diambig page? There are other pages on Arab surnames, like Gaddafi, without the "al-" prefix. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 16:25, 25 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I moved the page because more people have the name on Wikipedia with the "Al-", so it is more fitting. Maybe Mohamed did not have a choice as to who would transliterate his name when he moved to an English speaking country, and added it back himself, plus he has the option as other Arabs do - to use it or not, the English press clearly have no clue about Arabic and only attack him about the "Al-", there's oodles of others they could call "phony". John Cengiz   talk  16:37, 25 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I understand you now. I am just wary of his name changes, seeing that he called himself as Sheikh in Haiti. His missives to Max Hastings reflect, I think the importance he places on this. I do of course respect his choice of name. There are certain well respected newspapers that still refuse to call him "Al-Fayed", something I disagree with. Keep up your great work on Arabic names. Gareth E Kegg (talk) 17:45, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Aziz
Hello,

I have reinstated the bodybuilder/internet celebrity, Aziz Shavershian, into the Aziz article. You had previously reverted it due to notability concerns, when clearly in it's article, it is shown otherwise. If you have any issues, take it up with myself, or at the talk page. Thank You -- MelbourneStar☆ (talk to me) 04:55, 4 September 2011 (UTC)


 * The Aziz Shavershian article was created on 17 August 2011, I last edited the Aziz article on 11 August 2011, so at the time of my editing he would not have been notable. John Cengiz   talk  05:04, 4 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Right, sorry if I sounded a little harsh above. If sources are needed to coroborate his notability in the Aziz article, I'll be more than willing happy to provide. Thank you for your time :) -- MelbourneStar☆ (talk to me) 05:09, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Given name / Surname templates
Hello, JohnCengiz77. You seem to have the page Chadi well in hand, but I just wanted to point to the documentation for Template:Given name and Template:Surname. In particular, the templates should be placed at the bottom of the page. You may also want to think about whether or not the page is intended to be a disambiguation page, in which case either Hndis or   may be appropriate. Happy editing, Cnilep (talk) 03:21, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Aladdin
Would appreciate an answer to the point - this is an article about a fairy story that happens to have an Arabic name rather than an article about that name - in this context its pronunciation in Arabic seems unconnected to the matter in hand. This seems much more like common sense than the sort of thing likely to be covered by a rule. Sorry if this idea seems single minded, just that you won't say what is wrong with it. As I've said more than once - no objection to whatsoever to a point about the arabic pronunciation at a more appropriate point - like say in the article about the name, or the disambiguation page. And I'm more than ready to admit myself wrong - if you can convince me by something other than just "reverting the reversion". --Soundofmusicals (talk) 04:43, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Cut and paste moves
Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you recently tried to give Adela a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into another page with a different name. This is known as a "cut and paste move", and it is undesirable because it splits the page history, which is needed for attribution and various other purposes. Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

In most cases, once your account is four days old and has ten edits, you should be able to move an article yourself using the "Move" tab at the top of the page. This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a redirect from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at requested moves to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other pages that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at Cut and paste move repair holding pen. Thank you. --MegaSloth (talk) 20:44, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Your assistance please...
I see you moved Abdul Salam Gaithan Mureef Al Shehry to Abdul Salam Al-Shehri. But I can't see where the discussion as to which was the best transliteration took place.

If there was a discussion as to whether to rename this article can you point to where I can read it?

If there wasn't a prior discussion would it be possible for you to explain why you thought the transliteration you chose was superior to other transliterations?

Unfortunately, Arabic is not like Chinese. With Chinese there are standard transliteration schemes for transliterating Chinese into latin characters. I am old enough to remember when Wade-Giles was always used when transliterating into English. But just about everyone uses Pinyin scheme now. But there is no standard for transliterating Arabic to English.

It can be frustrating. Personally I think the best approach for us is to try to be consistent. Al Shehry has several relatives who we also cover. An argument could be made that we should use the same transliteration for all of them. But which of the dozen or more choices should we use?

Can I trust that you are also interested in working towards consistent transliterations? Geo Swan (talk) 07:11, 21 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, the names "Gaithan Mureef" didn't belong in the title. The Bani Shehr tribe of Saudi Arabia use a standardized spelling of Shehri for members. This is the spelling used in most articles I found about Abdul Salam. The article receives so few views and is needing some attention I decided to move the page.


 * There are several Guantanamo prisoners pages with half a dozen other names in the title which don't belong there, once I deleted the word "Hyacinth" out an inmates title. A lot of these pages lack effort on them so I enjoy working on them, and working towards consistent transliterations. John Cengiz   talk  03:32, 22 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I have picked up enough familiarity with Arabic names to know it is quite complicated, and that I have only scratched the surface. If you know more about this topic, then please share your knowledge with the rest of us.


 * WRT consistency, Consistency, among all your edits, while admirable, is not going to be as much help, I suggest, as working with others to make sure the edits of all these related articles are done consistently.


 * Can you explain how you know that "Gaithan Mureef" doesn't belong in this individual's name?


 * There was another contributor who I had a lot of disagreements with, who was permanently blocked a few months ago for various policy violations unrelated to his conflicts with me, who wanted to always use the transliteration chosen by the New York Times. While I really admire the NYT's efforts I was not convinced by his assertion that their choice of names was informed by experts in Arabic naming.  The NYT's never claimed this.  I think they were merely doing their best to be consistent.


 * I asked this other contributor where they stood on captives who claimed the DoD's official name for them wasn't their actual name, wasn't close to their actual name. The NYT's was inconsisten on this, sometimes using the captive's own version of their name, sometimes using the version supplied by the DoD.


 * I tried to get this difficult contributor to discuss the common issues in choosing whether or not to rename articles on Guantanamo captives in one location. He was totally unwilling to discuss this.


 * I hope I have convinced you that discussion is necessary, even if you have the true word, if only so less informed individuals aren't tempted to revert your changes, because they don't understand them.


 * Give me a little while and I will try to find those attempts.


 * WRT Hyacinth -- (1) so that wouldn't be credible? (2) maybe it slipped in via vandalism?  The DoD had an "emdash" as a component of one guys name.  Of course an "emdash" is a typographic term, and could have slipped into the name when a file with typographic commands in it was inexpertly converted to plaintext.  Another guy was named "adbul" -- not "abdul".


 * Ahcene Zemiri comes from an Arabic country that had once been a colony of Spain. So initial reports of him used a francophone based transliteration.  It took me over a year to realize he was the guy the DoD called Hassan Zumiri.


 * You probably know the DoD uses non-standard transliterations. Usama bin Laden, for instance.


 * The formerly secret file, leaked by WikiLeaks, lists the following alternated versions of his name:
 * Abdul S Ghetan
 * Abd Al Salam Ghaytan Murayyi Al Zaydani Al Shihri
 * Osama Al Jendi
 * Abdul Salam Al Shehri
 * AbdAl-Salam Bin Ghaythan Al-Shahri
 * Abu Yasir
 * Abdul Salam Ghaithan Al Shehr
 * The DoD has also called him:
 * Abd Al Salam Ghaytan Murayyif Al Zaydani Al Shihri
 * Abdul Salam Ghetan


 * Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 04:12, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification
Hi. When you recently edited Turkish name, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Enver (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 10:50, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

European Market Infrastructure Regulation – EMIR
John, I see you did not like the redirect. Take a look now and see if you can live with that. I gave Emir as the title top billing. Rick --Rick (talk) 02:17, 21 February 2012 (UTC)


 * "EMIR" is an acronym and has little confusion with the title "Emir", "EMIR" redirects to the only acronym that uses it.


 * The European Market Infrastructure Regulation page has been added to the Emir dab page, the correct page. John Cengiz   talk  16:57, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

John - I see you removed the reference to EMIR from the Emir page. This is a challenge as people who enter emir seeking EMIR land on the Emir page an there is no xref. What would you think of emir going to a disambig? Is the any reason you want users looking to land on EMIR to land confused on Emir? Very different audiences. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.199.61.220 (talk) 13:02, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your contributions. Please remember to mark your edits as "minor" only if they truly are minor edits. In accordance with Help:Minor edit, a minor edit is one that the editor believes requires no review and could never be the subject of a dispute. Minor edits consist of things such as typographical corrections, formatting changes, or rearrangement of text without modification of content. Additionally, the reversion of clear-cut vandalism and test edits may be labeled "minor". Thank you. PatGallacher (talk) 12:46, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Zakariya
Hi, I am minded to reverse your work expanding the page Zakariya, as the people you added do not seem to be known by the name Zakariya alone – see MOS:DABNAME. Any objection? – Fayenatic L (talk) 00:29, 8 March 2012 (UTC)


 * There's other guidelines that show that middle names may also be listed, there are countless name pages with people with the middle name listed; and or a separate middle name section added.


 * As for my other work in that edit, they are all positive contributions that expand the article. John Cengiz   talk  01:48, 8 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I apologise, as I see it has since been made into a name page rather than disambiguation.  I initially thought it was better to include Zakaria, Zakariya and Zakariyya in the lists of names at Zechariah (given name) and Zacharias (surname), but taking these spellings together I now agree that they do justify a separate page, so I will help to split the relevant content from these and tidy up the many redirects.
 * By the way, are you sure that all the last names are surnames? North African and South Asian names are often cited either way round, and I think Zakariya was a given name rather than family name for Baha-ud-din Zakariya. I suggest combining the lists into one as "People with this name". – Fayenatic L (talk) 11:57, 8 March 2012 (UTC)


 * In Indian, Pakistani, and Arab cultures the surname may be just the last given name. In the English context, it is treated as a surname in every respect, and as such with every other Arab name page the surnames are listed separately. Possibly Baha-ud-din Zakariya is quite a rare example, if that is the individual's accepted given name, and what they are always called in full - it may be listed on the given name section. John Cengiz   talk  05:16, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I've done some more work on the page, splitting the list by historical era, and just separating surnames in modern times which sidesteps the above. There are more entries in Special:PrefixIndex/Zakari which you could add if you like. – Fayenatic L (talk) 08:16, 22 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your work expanding that article, it is looking quite thorough. John Cengiz   talk  02:15, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 8
Hi. When you recently edited Abu Abdullah, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Alias (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 11:02, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Turkish army Sikorsky crash


The article Turkish army Sikorsky crash has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * An accident/incident during military combat operations is rarely notable

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. MilborneOne (talk) 11:13, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Turkish army Sikorsky crash for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Turkish army Sikorsky crash is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Turkish army Sikorsky crash until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. ...William 13:42, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of 2012 Turkish Army Black Hawk crash for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article 2012 Turkish Army Black Hawk crash is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/2012 Turkish Army Black Hawk crash until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. ...William 21:30, 28 March 2012 (UTC)


 * [[Image:Ambox warning_pn.svg|48px|left]]I've speedy deleted it as a recreation of an article that was deleted after a deletion discussion. Please don't do that again. If you wish to contest my findings you may pursue deletion review. If you choose instead to keep recreating the article that will only lead to the article being WP:SALTed and/or you being blocked. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:48, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Please see WP:COMMONNAME and WP:BLP
Hi. I have reverted Yasmine Niazy as there appears to be no WP:RS evidence for the spelling to which you moved the BLP. Feel free to comment on the Talk page if there's a reason for this move. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:16, 11 April 2012 (UTC)