User talk:John Gibbons 3

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Hi and welcome again. Well done on your edits so far, particularly concerning Colin Ross, but I feel I should point out that ticking the minor edit box is really only for very small edits like typos and adding links. It doesn't bother me much but some editors treat this as disguising controversial edits where the matters are more substantial. Keep up the good work.--''' SabreBD  (talk ) 21:24, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of William Vickers (fiddler) for deletion
The article William Vickers (fiddler) is being discussed concerning whether it is suitable for inclusion as an article according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/William Vickers (fiddler) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

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Your recent edits
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Thanks for the reminder, and the hint about the signature button.--John Gibbons 3 (talk) 16:48, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Joe Hutton (disambiguation), which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created. Thank you for helping Wikipedia! sonia ♫ 16:30, 2 April 2011 (UTC)
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Notability of your articles
Hi John, I'll start by saying that your primary editing topic, piping, is probably as familiar to me as my regular topic, Australian rules football is to you (and my feelings for the bagpipes rank only slightly less than the saxophone for my least enjoyed instrument!) But, somethings on wikipedia cross all geographical and topical boundaries. I'll separate them into points below: We have a policy here of assuming good faith in all editors, and I'm assuming that all of your edits are made in good faith, and likewise, trust me, I'm not going to start deleting your articles if you don't fix everything in the next week! I can see that you are enthusiastic about your topic of choice and probably are filling in a big whole in this compendium of knowledge, but the quicker you can pick up some of the nuances of the rules here, the easier and more productive your time here will be. If you have any questions, just reply here and I'll try to explain myself better. Regards, - The-Pope (talk) 16:27, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) You shouldn't recreate new pages such as William Dixon manuscript when a similar page already exists, ie William Dixon (piper). Instead, there is a move button that will allow you to move everything, including the page history and talk page to a more appropriate title with one click (well, a few clicks).  To fix up the current duplication, given the more extensive history at the (piper) article, could you attempt to merge the relevant info from the manuscript article into the (piper) article, and then use the db-G6 template to request that an administrator temporarily deletes the manuscript article and then moves the (piper) article to the more appropriate title.
 * 2) The notability requirements of articles is controlled primarily by the WP:GNG - the general notability guidelines.  They state, that there should be significant coverage, in independent reliable sources.  Each of those key words, significant, independent and reliable are explained in more detail on that page.  Individual topics also have their own refinements to what is notable, and WP:MUSICBIO is probably the most relevant to your piper articles. Whislt they are probably skewed towards popular music and keeping out every garage/high school band that wants some publicity (which is obviously not the case for your long dead pipers), you should review the community agreed consensus and try to ensure that all of the articles that you create fulfill the requirements.
 * 3) WikiProjects are areas on wikipedia where editors who are either geographically or topically related can discuss, maintain, review and assist improving articles.  I note that most of your new pages don't have any projects listed.  You add projects by adding the relevent project's template to the article's talk page.  For example, all of the pipers should at least have a  template on their talk pages, and maybe a piping or county/region project too.  Look at the talk pages of other similar pages for other examples and other projects.  You don't need to ask permission, or sign on as a member of a project (although many projects do maintain an unofficial list of members) to add projects, but try to ensure that the article is truly in the scope of the project.  I don't know if there is a piping related project, but there probably is a project related to the Northumberland region.

Many thanks for the advice about the 'move' button. My reason for creating the William Dixon manuscript page, was in answer to the criticism of the William Vickers page - a tentatively identified man can't possibly be notable, so the MS itself, in either case an important historical source for Northumbrian music and, in Dixon's case, for bagpipe music, should be the subject. The older William Dixon (piper) page can be deleted, as the content was copied across. I haven't found a project specifically covering Northumbrian music. John Gibbons 3 (talk) 20:58, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

I see the newer William Dixon manuscript page has already been deleted, so I'll try moving the William Dixon (piper) page. John Gibbons 3 (talk) 21:03, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

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Willy Taylor (musician)
Great job on your article Willy Taylor (musician)! It is well formatted and very informative :). Let me know if there is ever anything I can do to help out, and keep up the good work!  --Cerebellum (talk) 02:55, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the encouragement! John Gibbons 3 (talk) 22:09, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of John Armstrong (of Carrick)


A tag has been placed on John Armstrong (of Carrick) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a band or musician, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think that the page was nominated in error, contest the nomination by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion" in the speedy deletion tag. Doing so will take you to the talk page where you can explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but do not hesitate to add information that is consistent with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Intoronto1125 Talk Contributions  23:46, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

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John Armstrong (of Carrick)

 * I removed the speedy deletion tag on this one because it makes a credible claim for notability, but some more sources would really help stave off further efforts to delete it. You can even email me scans of hardcopy sources and I can help.--Milowent • hasspoken  15:52, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Archie Dagg
I am tracking down further printed, online and oral sources for this article. But his published compositions, his association with Billy Pigg and John Armstrong (of Carrick)and his musical influence generally in Northumberland and the Borders, mean an article about him is needed.

June 2014
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 * of his own. One of the most famous was the Wheatstone concertina . It was a six sided instrument with 64 keys. These keys provided for simple chromatic fingerings.

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Thomas Hair (musician) has been accepted
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File permission problem with File:Clough Colour Photos -in greyscale- - Jim Bryan + Tom Clough + Foster Charlton + 1009.jpg
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Fenwick manuscript article
Hello, thanks for writing this article! I’ve just read it and I’m a bit concerned that it has no citations. That worries me since without proof that this topic is notable, meaning covered enough in media for it to be possible to write a fair article on the topic, and that the information in the article is true, itmay get deleted. (It would be in particular good to know who has custody of the manuscript now, and if it's a well-known library the shelfmark and catalogue number etc.) Are there any reliable sources on the topic that you can add? If so just edit the article and add citations using the cite tool, or if you have any thoughts or questions just let me know. Blythwood (talk) 12:38, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

The MS is currently in private hands, and I need the owner's permission before saying who owns it. He has placed some information on the website I linked to, but I do not want to divulge more than I am free to. I will add citations as soon as I am able. But nothing relevant is yet published in print, at least since the Northumbrian Small-Pipes Society folded in 1900. The MS was only rediscovered this summer, so it is early days yet.John Gibbons 3 (talk) 12:59, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
 * OK. I'm sorry, then, but I'm not sure this is exactly right for Wikipedia. One of Wikipedia's principles is that it can never contain original research - claims based on your own knowledge. Everything must be verifiable in reliable sources that I or anyone else can check. There's an explanation of this by Jimmy Wales here. I will leave this, but I do recommend considering if this kind of material is right for posting on Wikipedia or if it's better off on your own blog that you control and has no expected community standards of what goes on it, since I'm not sure this kind of material would survive a deletion discussion - what it needs is to be referred to in reliable sources that are trusted and have a professional reputation. Perhaps a local museum in Northumbria would be interested in putting up an article about this manuscript on its website? Anyway, hope this is helpful to you. Blythwood (talk) 19:53, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

This is a pity, as the MS is important, and has only recently come to light. But I accept Wikipedia's reliance on published sources, so it is perhaps too early to create a Wikipedia article on this subject yet. I may well be back with this once something has been published. The suggestion of a museum in Northumberland is a good one - the owner is hoping the MS will eventually go to the Pipers' Society, and be lodged in the Morpeth Chantry Bagpipe Museum. But while research on it is ongoing, it makes sense for him to hang on to it for the time being.John Gibbons 3 (talk) 20:07, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Formatting references
John!

Good to see you working to add to your article on Young William.

If you could, when you add a reference, instead of putting it in brackets, could you put after it? That way, it will show up as a reference and be on the reference list rather than as a link in the line of the article. (It look like you tried once, but just put  at the end instead of .)

Thanks!

--Nat Gertler (talk) 19:29, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Many thanks - I'll bear this in mind. - John

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A barnstar for you!
Very many thanks - I'm glad that what I'm trying to do is appreciated. The project continues ....

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Speedy deletion nomination of Cornelius Stanton


A tag has been placed on Cornelius Stanton requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a real person or group of people, but it does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

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Auld lang syne / William Shield
Fascinated by your edit to the William Shield article, especially after visiting the website about the Rod MacKillop album (the idea of Scottish lute music is a new one to me, but just the sort of thing to tickle my jaded old musical palette) - I might well want to get this one).

On the other hand the Balcarres manuscript, from which the (pre-1700?) set of variations on the well known melody is allegedly drawn, is not something that has previously featured here and DOES really need a more "reliable" citation than a "sleeve note" attribution. Our present remarks on the subject of the origins of the well known melody (both here, and in the parent article) are also poorly cited (another question altogether) - but regardless they do represent the consensus of several older sources that make no mention of the manuscript. Does it even warrant its own (well cited) article? Either way - a little more background information about the manuscript (how and when it came to light, for instance) would be useful. In fact, assuming that the manuscript is authenticated and reliably cited it makes nonsense of much of what we say in both articles - and both of them would require substantial editing.

The final point I would like to make is that any edits you make to Wikipedia need to be in "encyclopedic style". They need to read well in conjunction with what is already there, and not to make "persuasive" or rhetorical comments that might be very appropriate if you were writing a book or magazine article, or even an academic essay.

By all means respond to anything I say here (preferably on the talk page for one (or both?) of the articles concerned). Very best wishes! --Soundofmusicals (talk) 08:56, 29 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Incidentally - have been doing some more digging on my own - Rod McKillop doesn't actually play the Auld Lang Syne variations, does he? Was keen to hear them. A little more of the information we want about the manuscript at https://boydellandbrewer.com/the-balcarres-lute-book-2-volume-set-pb.html - which may be a better source at least. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 09:13, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Rob McKillop does play the Auld Lang Syne variations, and a fine bit of playing it is too. One of more than 100 pieces on his Youtube page. The Balcarres lute book, as one of the early sources of popular music in Scotland, and as - in McKillop's words, the 'most professional' of the Scottish lute manuscripts, deserves its own page, but I am certainly not the one to write it. I can add a relevant citation. For sure, the attribution of the tune to Shield is spurious, and needs little discussion except to refute it. John Gibbons 3 (talk) 15:16, 29 November 2017 (UTC)


 * I'll have to try again to find it! Of course we always knew that the "attribution of the tune to Shield is spurious" - we have never taken this seriously, but, as you remark, been determined to refute it as succinctly and conclusively as possible. At the time this article was written (several years ago now) a google search brought up dozens of (mostly 3rd rate) "sources" - newspaper articles etc. - one or two of these (from memory) actually got a mention here but disappeared like the ephemera they always were, so that all that remains are those wretched "citation needed" tags. --Soundofmusicals (talk) 04:26, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

I have found a long obituary of Shield, from a few days after his death, on the British Newspaper Archive. I will use this to expand his biography. In particular, he seems to have known Haydn quite well, and said 'he had learned more from Haydn in four days, than in any four years of the rest of his life'. I will play through the relevant bits of the overture to Rosina - I am convinced that much of its material is taken from Auld Lang Syne, but it would be interesting to see if the modern form of the tune preexisted its appearance in Rosina. All other appearances in print that I have found seem to postdate it.John Gibbons 3 (talk) 11:54, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

One 20th century newspaper article says ALS is derived from The Miller's Wedding, in Bremner's Scots Reels, from 1759. A totally different tune. Only primary sources will do.... John Gibbons 3 (talk) 10:25, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

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S0091 (talk) 15:18, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:George Atkinson (Northumbrian piper)
Hello, John Gibbons 3. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:George Atkinson (Northumbrian piper), a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again&#32;or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 16:02, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

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Your draft article, Draft:George Atkinson (Northumbrian piper)


Hello, John Gibbons 3. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "George Atkinson".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz Read! Talk! 17:13, 14 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the information, I understand your policy. I am still learning more about this important piper; I hope to return to the subject in the future - in particular, there's a press cutting where I need to identify the date and source before I can cite it. John Gibbons 3 (talk) 20:51, 14 April 2024 (UTC)