User talk:John from Idegon/Archive 60

Edit revision on St. Mark's School of Texas
John, if you look closely at the diff of the edit you reverted, you'll see that all I did was reformat some rather horrible hand-rolled, plaintext references; I didn't add (or subtract) any information - just use wiki formatting to better present what was already there. I'm reverting your revert. Markelele (talk) 18:09, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

If the notes on the alumni are indeed unsourced, then it seems like the proper thing to do is to remove them entirely. Markelele (talk) 18:18, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

Elementary schools
Hi John. Could you have a look at Template:Peel District schools. My understanding is that elementary and middle schools should only have an article if they are notable. Otherwise, they should be redirects. Thanks. Magnolia677 (talk) 23:12, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi, Magnolia677. I'd say go ahead and boldly redirect them all. Please add after the redirect mark up and mention WP:WPSCH/AG and WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES in your edit summary. If you get any pushback, take them to AfD. Let me know if you encounter any problems.  Thanks  John from Idegon (talk) 23:22, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

The Signpost: 6 February 2017
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Revision of entry: Swastika, Ontario
I have posted on 2 Feb 2017 the reasons for my reverted edit to this entry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Swastika,_Ontario

Please review and consider this my request for undoing your reversion. Ontarioboy (talk) 16:02, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

Fenton High School
Hello, my name is Preston D.T. English, a 2015 Pacemaker Award winning photographer for the Fentonian. I have lived in Fenton for quite some time and am a member of the Fenton Historical Society, having copies of physical yearbooks in my collection dating back to 1904. Perhaps I am most known for being Fenton's Typewriter collector, with three newspaper articles written about me to date. As for right now, I am working on attaining resources regarding our yearbook, along with a resource regarding Cari Cucksey, the HGTV television star from Fenton High School.

Thanks,

Prestondenglish (talk) 21:03, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
 * What's your point? John from Idegon (talk) 22:22, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

AN3 report
I thought I'd notify you since you were involved in the discussion on the talk page: Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring  Toddst1 (talk) 23:46, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks . I haven't much experience with ANEW; but I was pretty sure this was a self flushing toilet, so I didn't comment. John from Idegon (talk) 05:40, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Bev Facey Community High School
I have not done anything much to this for a couple of weeks so I guess I'm done. The refs in the info box are messy but I'm not sure how to best handle refs that are used in multiple places (including the infobox) but with different page numbers. Meters (talk) 05:18, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
 * All your sources appear to be websites, so I don't really understand your point about the "messiness". They look fine to me. Article looks really good to me and I've assessed it as a "B". I think there may be the potential to take it to GA or FA. I'd suggest you contact, as he has the most experience with good and featured school articles. A GA would look really good in regard our interaction on your talk page last week. Hint, hint. John from Idegon (talk) 05:36, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
 * BTW, there are 0 Canadian GA or FA school articles. There are currently no A school articles at all. So, this is among the best articles on Canadian schools in the 'pedia. Kudos. John from Idegon (talk) 05:52, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Some of those refs are PDFs with many pages so I had to include page numbers for the various bits I used. Thanks for the feedback. I'll see what Jon has to say. Meters (talk) 06:32, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
 * To go further with it you will need more secondary sources, but much of your content lends itself to secondary sourcing (unlike most school articles). There is a more elegant way to handle the references you're concerned with. I'll dig around and find it. Images would also be helpful. Do you have anyone that can shoot some good quality photos for you (I'm assuming the school is a long way from being your neighbor)? Also, do you have a subscription to newspapers.com? The foundation will pay for it. If you don't and want one, I'll look up how to get it for you. Need to do that anyway cause I want to start doing more content work too and every time I go to my local library, the book is checked out. Joys of rural living. After 12 years out here, I still haven't been quite able to adjust. Growing up in Chicagoland doesn't help....John from Idegon (talk) 06:45, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Adding School Infobox Template for Central Valley Christian High School
That would great, I am new to the Wikipedia world and learning from some Wikipeida veterans would be very helpful. Thanks, Williamvb99 (talk) 20:38, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I'll need the school's webpage. Thanks. John from Idegon (talk) 20:55, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I think I figured it out, I found the right template and I am adding information now. Thank you for all the help, I really appreciate it. Williamvb99 (talk) 21:01, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Unless someone contests it you really don't need to cite the school's website. However, the only info that should come from the school's website are the most basic things. Address, staff (but we only name the principal and with a stand alone private school, the chairman or whomever heads the organization) and basic history (but even history would be better sourced independently). If there is no good source at the state sanctioning body, a listing of sports could be also sourced to the school's webpage (I do believe that's the case in California. You should include a specific reference for that). Everything else, especially any achievement or firsts, needs independent sources. You'll find guidelines for school articles at WP:WPSCH/AG and I'll leave instructions for properly formatting references on your talk page. Thanks and again, welcome. John from Idegon (talk) 21:32, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I believe that the name of this page is wrong. It should be Central Valley Christian Schools, as the high school just a part of the much larger kintergarden through 12th grade school. Williamvb99 (talk) 22:25, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

I agree. The only independent source I could find (I added it) shows the school as K-12. It needs to be rewritten to reflect that. You cannot actually edit a title, so it will need to be moved to a new page. I'll take care of that. Please add my talk page to your watchlist (there is a check box near the save button for that). That way I don't have to keep leaving you Talkback notices. Plus you can learn a lot about school articles by reading the stuff that ends up on my talk. John from Idegon (talk) 23:50, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Jeffers High School
Hello! Your submission of Jeffers High School at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! CeeGee 16:37, 12 February 2017 (UTC) CeeGee 16:37, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Lexington high school sports edits
Please note that the edits I put in and you deleted were sourced. There is no controversy about the sports as varsity sports. Also please note the consensus that was reached on Ultimate Frisbee's inclusion as a varsity sport, which granted by schools only, not a state commission. Please allow the edits to stand. Mrljdavid (talk) 23:22, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I see no consensus for that. Please direct me to it. I see no source for varsity sports. Provide a reliable source for that. It's not optional. If a source is requested, it must be provided. WP:V provides that non contentious material may be added without source. All that means is if no one contends that it needs a source, you don't need to add one. I contend it does. Controversial doesn't enter into it. John from Idegon (talk) 23:40, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I had the sources listed with the items you deleted. Here's the school website: lps.lexingtonma.org/Page/1309. Clearly showing the listings for boys and girls Ultimate Frisbee and Boys Volleyball. And lps.lexingtonma.org/page/1308 clearly shows Boys and girls Alpine skiing. I'm not sure why consensus is needed when the school itself states it. Mrljdavid (talk) 23:49, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Content discussion belongs on the article's talk page. YOU claimed there was a concensus that ultimate frisbee, a non sanctioned sport, was to be included as a varsity sport, not me. Generally, non - sanctioned sports are not included in the athletics listings. If reliable independent secondary sources are available for them, they can be briefly discussed under activities. We do not discuss topics whose interest is limited to the school community. This is shown by providing secondary reliable independent sources. A Wikipedia article is not for disseminating information the school, its staff, the alumni or the students wish to be disseminated. Instead, we report on what reliable secondary independent sources have written about the school. Sorry if you've had some confusion on that. Now you don't. John from Idegon (talk) 00:03, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

So what would qualify as a reliable secondary source? The school website doesn't suffice? Mrljdavid (talk) 02:09, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

http://lexington.wickedlocal.com/article/20150624/SPORTS/150628386 Would this work? Mrljdavid (talk) 02:16, 14 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Nope. It's user-generated. See WP:RS for details. And until you comply with the conflict of interest issues raised on your talk page, I'm done. Make edit suggestions in the proper form on the article's talk page only after you fully disclose your conflict of interest there. Do not edit the article directly and please refrain from posting on my talk page again. Any direct revisions you make to the article will be reverted on sight with no further explanation. Good bye. John from Idegon (talk) 02:39, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

Seymour High School
Hi John,

I recently contributed to the Seymour high school page by adding this: "In the summer of 2016, a new turf soccer field and stadium were built on the west side of the school grounds. A turf football field was also installed, replacing the natural grass that once supported the football stadium."

I saw that you deleted this content. Assuming you have never been to Seymour, Indiana, you would not know whether or not Seymour has these things. Well, as a graduate of said school, I'd appreciate it if you would stop deleting contributions for our school. You can even look up on the internet that Seymour DOES have turf fields. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.102.244.192 (talk) 06:12, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi, 139 etc. I'm sorry your having difficulty grasping this concept, but I do not need to have been to Seymour (which BTW, I have been, many times) to contribute to an encyclopedia article about it because everything added to an article on Wikipedia is supposed to come from a published reliable source. You stated in your edit summary and again here you were basing your change on personal knowledge. That is not what Wikipedia is. Sorry you do not understand this. If you provide a source there is no problem making the addition. Frankly, if you hadn't made such a deal about the source being you, the content probably would have stood without a source. Live and learn. John from Idegon (talk) 14:39, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Parkland High School
Google Maps is a single source, but it had to be split up into three different citations because it is not possible to show all three schools at once. The fact that they look nearly identical on Google Maps and Google Earth is irrefutable proof that they have the same design, as well as having being made by the same architecture firm as confirmed on the other source. Adervae (talk) 02:38, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
 * No it is irrefutable proof that you think they look alike. It amazes me that you've been here six years and haven't figured out the very nature of what an encyclopedia is. Even if every single person who saw the photos thought they looked alike, it still is not a source for including content that they are the same design. Someone writing about them being the same design is what would be needed, but even if you had a source that said that, you STILL need to gain concensus to include it as it adds nothing of importance to the article. How does the reader know any more about the school by knowing there are two other buildings of roughly the same design elsewhere? And having been a contractor for years, I can tell you for certain that even if they were built off the same general design, they are not the same. You cannot build a structure on the soil in Pennsylvania the same as you do in Minnesota. All and all your addition is nothing more than poorly sourced trivia. If you wish to try to build concensus for your change, take it to the article talk page. You need to stop re-adding it without concensus. And I'm done here, so don't bother replying. I'll participate in a discussion at the article talk page but we are done here. John from Idegon (talk) 04:19, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I've cleaned up the identical material added to Neuqua Valley High School and Stillwater Area High School, leaving just the design company info. Meters (talk) 20:00, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

Claremont High School (California)
Hi John,

Thanks for your help! I tried to add back in the references for the CUSD District information and for the High School demographic information. Hope this is an improvement! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ebrooks113 (talk • contribs) 20:13, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Glad to help, . Haven't had a chance to look yet. BTW, it's very helpful if you include a Wikilink when you correspond with another editor about a specific article. Please note how I've modified the title of this section. And don't forget to sign and timestamp your talk page postings by typing four tildes at the end. Thanks. And again, welcome to Wikipedia. Just a warning: It's highly addictive. John from Idegon (talk) 20:43, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

DYK for Jeffers High School
&mdash; Coffee //  have a cup  //  beans  // 00:03, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Bit of help
John, I'm not sure if there's a problem with my computer, or if I'm dealing with a vandal. Could you have a look at Talk:Zaytoven? Thanks. Magnolia677 (talk) 23:28, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Small Town Indiana Survey photos
A couple of points. I am not an admin on the Commons so I will not be able to help directly. If the uploader does not promptly get things moving on getting an OTRS ticket for these photos, they will have to be nominated for deletion. The best way to do this by starting a deletion request, Commons:Deletion requests and do a bulk deletion nomination. There should be a link on the left to nominate for deletion where you can list one of the files and then go in and add the others manually. You might have a look at Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Kannansivaram for a recent example of how to lay out a bulk nomination. Notifying the uploader of the first nomination should happen automatically if you use the link on the left. Then go to their talk page and manually add the others so they are notified of all and are not overwhelmed with templated messages. For example. Also, "Chris Flook" could be a woman's name. They have not contradicted you so I suppose you guessed correctly. I have to log off now, ttyl. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 01:35, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

Chris Flook
I'm emailing Chris now; it would be technically WP:OUTING if I explained what it was, but the statements on the website made it trivially easy to find his work email address, so I'm sending both to that address and to the address mentioned at http://smalltowns.soulofindiana.org/contact/index.htm. Rather than requesting a permission confirmation for the images, I'm having him just verify his identity, since that will mean that we can trust that the account has permission to upload from the website. This has been done in many other situations; for example, see File:Phil 1.jpg, where the same approach was taken with a famous professional photographer who decided to upload some of his images. Nyttend (talk) 12:24, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * John and Diannaa, I just wanted both of you to know that Chris has sent the identification email to permissions-commons as I requested (he cc-ed me on it, so I can testify that it's sufficient), using the email address provided at http://smalltowns.soulofindiana.org/contact/index.htm. Of course, with their backlog they haven't yet tagged his userpage with OTRS user identified, but still please don't tag any of his images for deletion.  Nyttend (talk) 01:56, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much for taking care of this. If you could please ensure that Mr Flook understands all current and future uploads need to have the OTRS ticket in place, that would be perfect. (Sorry if that sounds pompous, but I just want to make sure nothing goes wrong :) ) — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 02:04, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks to you both for your help. Nyttend, you especially should appreciate the monumental amount of work Flook has in this and what a cool gift it is. I'm glad I found this early on before he started getting photos deleted. There are many many miles of really bad roads connecting the town's he photographed. Thanks again. John from Idegon (talk) 02:09, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Having driven many of those roads myself, I definitely understand :-) But at least Indiana has an excuse: they're all county-maintained, and many counties don't have a ton of money for roads, but at least pretty much all of them are decent gravel with nothing worse than some washboarding.  Here in Virginia, the state maintains all the roads in the unincorporated parts of 93 of our 95 counties (and all the roads in a good number of towns), but in just a few months of living here, I've driven more dirt roads than I have in any other state, and as you can see in these comments, some of our mountain roads really are bad.  Nyttend (talk) 03:13, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Niles West High School
I added a notable alumni to Niles West High School, you reversed for lack of references, which I thought I put in the comment. The guy doesn't have a wiki page, but he's certainly notable, a billionaire breast cancer drug inventor. Please let me know how I should fix JoeBorn (talk) 00:25, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Write his bio, then link it. Accomplishments don't create notability. See WP:ANYBIO for what does. "Notable" only means one thing on Wikipedia. It means the subject qualifies for an article. For any edit involving a living person, inline citations are required per WP:BLP. You did not provide them. Generally, on school articles, entries to the notable alumni sections are reverted if they are red links (always if they do not have references to notability and attendance). The only exceptions are those that can be shown notable easily with one citation and perhaps a second to show attendance. These people almost always meet one of the dozens of exceptions to WP:GNG so that there notability can be shown with one citation.  Examples include certain political figures, military personnel, and athletes. There is no exception to GNG for being wealthy or even for inventing something. John from Idegon (talk) 00:36, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

I guess I'll let it go. I'm not familiar enough to write his bio, but I think the drugs his company produces are important, and seem notable to me. JoeBorn (talk) 22:54, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Notability is not created by fame or accomplishments. Notability (with certain exceptions as mentioned above) is based strictly on the amount of information that has been written about the subject in reliable sources that are totally independent of the subject. In other words, if enough sources have made note of him, he's notable. If not, not. John from Idegon (talk) 00:22, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 February 2017
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