User talk:John from Idegon/Archive 9

About History of Seattle Seahawks
Hi Gtwfan 52. The reason why I was editing the page was simply because I was trying to add some more information about the team that some people may have missed. I only try to help gather information for pages because I feel they must have way more to say than what is already said. If this message was of any understanding, thank you.

Notability of places - re Bitch Creek Cow Camp, Idaho
Where is it written that "being on a map is the notability req. for a place"? I can only find WP:NPLACE which says that "smaller suburbs" are generaly merged to a larger entity, but doesn't mention rural places marked on maps, and Notability (geographic features) which is a draft for a proposed guideline (but which in its "nutshell" says "Inherently notable are legally recognized, populated places and named natural features with verifiable information beyond simple statistics.", neither of which criteria seem satisfied here. Pam  D  18:54, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The place in question has had substantial edits which would preclude any assertion to the notariety of said place. Additionally, it is a geo stub and there are lierally thousands nd thousands of geo stubs M understanding has been that as the stubs appear, other editors are able to contribute and "grow" the articles. This would appear to be the case in the matter of Bitch Creek Cow Camp Idaho, which acquired its name via French settling and hunting which is a tradition in that part of Idaho. I would never had known this had not another editor added this information I would have never known. In short, I LEARNED something from this encyclopedia. I find it interesting as well as informative. This was also an inhabited place, I find it interesting that the name draws attention. I could have for example chosen, Maggies Nipples, which was never inhabited for a prolonged period or Whorehouse Meadows Oregon, again, not inhabited, but this place, was.Coal town guy (talk) 19:17, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
 * After researching the matter further, there is zero requirement of a place being recognized OTHER THAN and I quote:

"Populated, legally-recognized places are, by a very large consensus, considered notable, even if the population is very low or at zero. Even abandoned places can remain notable, because notability encompasses their entire history. Reliable sources that document and verify governmental recognition of a place, such as a national census, are usually adequate to establish notability." This was found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(geography) ERGO, it is upon ALL OF US, to help one another and avoid censure of places because a quick internet search, turns up very little...Coal town guy (talk) 19:43, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
 * What I don't get, Pam, is why whether or not it is in the encyclopedia even matters to you? You admit it is on the map.  How does it hurt to have an article here so that when someday, some bored person looking thru the encyclopedia might see it and say, "Wow, I remember reading about that place in "Foo's comprehensive History of Foo County, Idaho"!  That person might take it upon himself to pull out his well worn copy of "Foo" and go to writing!Gtwfan52 (talk) 15:50, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I just created Bread Loaf Vermont. Turns out they had a post office, how about that? I bet, there is a great history, in Bread Loaf VermontCoal town guy (talk) 16:08, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
 * And also Pam, I cannot quote a policy on it, but I made the same basic argument you did at an AfD several months ago and it was totally shot down based on "a history of decisions at AfD". FYI Gtwfan52 (talk) 19:15, 1 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Maybe I'm misunderstanding American terminoogy: is an "unincorporated community" necessarily a populated place, or is it just a place on a map with or without population? The article when I PRODded it gave no indication (to me) that it was anything other than a spot on a map - no population figure, no mention of anything except its existence. The one reference in the original stub leads to a link which defines it as a "locale", and defines that as "Place at which there is or was human activity; it does not include populated places, mines, and dams (battlefield, crossroad, camp, farm, ghost town, landing, railroad siding, ranch, ruins, site, station, windmill)." Wikipedia does not need an article for every named place on any map - that's a world gazetteer. The article has now been expanded, as often happens with a PROD: that's good.  Pam  D  09:27, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Pam, you hit the nail right on the head. "gazetteer"! If you will look at the 5 pillars, you will see that one of the intended purposes of Wikipedia is as a gazetteer. A mountain cow camp will not have a recorded population, because as you may know, here in the states we do census on April 1 of the years ending in zero. On April 1, someplace that far up in the mountains would be uninhabitable. Hence, no recorded population. I am not familiar with Bitch Creek, but some of the cow camps I am aware of have populations into the hundreds June-September and a considerable amount of permanent infrastructure. And as I said earlier in this discussion, AfD decisions have held that the consensus is, at least for the States, that if a place has either census data or is on an official state map, it is notable enough for an article. Gtwfan52 (talk) 20:19, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

How to upgrade an article to a "Start" as opposed to a "Stub"
Hey there, a few weeks ago, I had requested that Whitby, West Virginia be upgraded to a start, as opoposed to a Stub. Is there nother way to get the ball rolling as it were? Many ThanksCoal town guy (talk) 02:53, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

People from North Bay, Ontario
Dude, just because you don't know John McGale personally that doesn't mean that he is not a notable resident of North Bay.

He is a legend in Quebec for his work with Offenbach and with several other artists. So although his following is from French Canada you have no right in denying him his place as a notable resident from North Bay. So leave it alone OK? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.119.88.231 (talk) 23:01, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
 * According to Wikipedia policy WP:NLIST, a person listed in a list of notable residents must meet notability standards to have a Wikipedia article written on them. That means you have to find at least two reliable, independent, secondary sources that vet his notability and connect him to the town.  I looked.  All that existed were sources like YouTube (not reliable), Facebook (not reliable) and sites connected to him or his record company (not independent).  I am not trying to dis your friend or say he isn't notable in your town.  It isn't enough to be included on lists like we are talking about to be notable in the town the article is on...the subject must be notable by Wikipedia's notability guidelines, which require that secondary sources have made note of him and his work and notability of a more world wide type.  Find reliable sources for your insertion and you are welcome to put it back.  Again, this isn't personal.  Please don't take it that way.  It is the same standard that notable lists are held to in Wikipedia community articles all over the world. Gtwfan52 (talk) 23:38, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Junjunone and religion
Hi Gtwfan52,

you might be interested in the possibly tongue-in-cheek, possibly cynical posts that Junjunone is making at Wikipedia_talk:Teahouse. IMO he is actually a troll :) Aarghdvaark (talk) 02:13, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
 * That is actually a couple weeks old, and I made note of it and asked a couple adms to look at it, but they never got back to me, so I am just turning the other cheek. It certainly is indicative of a total lack of commitment to a collaborative project and a predisposition to believe in only one correct version of anything, the one she expounds. Gtwfan52 (talk) 02:29, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I think she is sometimes just trying to get a reaction, as a good troll would - so much the best way to treat her is to turn the other cheek. There are different, evolving, social rules on the net from F2F - and at least we can use her to help achieve balance! Cheers Aarghdvaark (talk) 02:46, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I didn't completely follow the last. F2F=friend to friend?  I think what you were telling me is don't feed the trolls!  :) Gtwfan52 (talk) 02:54, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
 * F2F = face to face :) Aarghdvaark (talk) 05:39, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Correction of page move
I see that you moved Talk:Ella Henderson (Singer) to Talk:EllaHendersonSG, giving the reason as "improper move of user talk page to an article talk page". I have moved it to User talk:EllaHendersonSG, which is no doubt what you intended to do. JamesBWatson (talk) 10:09, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It was...when I realized I had messed it up, I stopped. Thanks for the catch.  do you really think the user above is the subject of the article?  I'm thinking SG might just stand for "super groupie".  who knows? Gtwfan52 (talk) 10:17, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Do you know, I wondered what "SG" meant, and I didn't think of "super groupie". However, whether the same person or not, clearly not someone who writes about the subject from a neutral point of view. JamesBWatson (talk) 10:32, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Teahouse question
Are you sure it's in the encyclopedia? I still see this, which leads me to believe it's not. Are we discussing the same article? Go  Phightins  !  17:58, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yup! Jon Cohen (entrepreneur) Gtwfan52 (talk) 18:01, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

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Kalaupapa, Hawaii. GHOST TOWN???
Hey, take a look at Kalaupapa, Hawaii They have an active post office, they have a population, they have tour buses. BUT, its being called a ghost town....Sure, its a former leper colony and one of the few populated ones in the US....but, this aint a ghost town per wiki definitions..........What do you think?Coal town guy (talk) 17:05, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Basic Tool Use Clas for Editors in search of a meaningful Purpose
The editor we discussed elsewhere seems to have found a niche that might be a good fit. I think I'll "step left" and leave her to her devices. She is lucky in that she has acquired a few quality editors that seem genuinely concerned for her. Not to say I'm not interested, I just feel its a time drain, an emotional cliff that I have no desire to fall off of. I'm enjoying welcoming but I am in search of a new WP challenge. I'd like to improve my limited ability with the many tools available. Any ideas? Im willing to enroll in someones BasIc Tool Use Class```Buster Seven   Talk  18:04, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Twinkle! you don't have to have any "rights" bestowed on you as it is available to everyone.  You will find a good tutorial for it here (section 6).  Good Luck! I'll be happy to answer any questions, as the editor that wrote that has retired.  Gtwfan52 (talk) 18:29, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 03:47, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Misunderstanding on Waco Page
Hi Gtwfan52, thanks for your polite note on my talk page concerning Waco, Texas and the Execution of Roy Mitchell. I apologize for the misunderstanding: I meant to convey the fact that Mitchell's legal hanging, and protection from lynching, was part of a gradual reform brought about in part by the NAACP's campaign following the Lynching of Jesse Washington. As I noted in my edit, Mitchell's trial was still an example of an essentially bigoted 1920s legal system in Waco. Please do accept my apologies for the poor wording. Also, please realize that commentary on Waco in the 1920s is not meant to imply anything about current day citizens. Thanks, -Darouet (talk) 20:52, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Not a problem. I fully realize what a pit the criminal justice system was (and to some extent, is) all thru the south.  And just so you know, I live in the NW.  It isn't personal.  Lynch is a word I hate having to know and i don't like to see it get tossed about.  Happy Editing! Gtwfan52 (talk) 21:04, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

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Steinert Logo Again
Hi, I would like your opinion on this issue before I proceed. One of my classmates designed some unique logos for Steinert High School Alumni; she sells them on t-shirts and so forth. Her designs are definitely different than the MSU Logo. She says they are her copyrighted graphics, but I could put one or two on the Steinert HS page under fair use. What do you think? Steinert Spartans & Grads Gamweb (talk) 09:05, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Unless the image comes from the school, which is apparently using a copyvio image itself, it would not be fair use. It would only be fair use to use it to illustrate an article about the ladies company.  She could release it, but she then gives up rights to it.  I am not sure how to do that, but it involves her sending an email to someone.  Please pose that question at the teahouse  There are numerous people there to answer questions such as these, most who have more experience than I in matters like this.  The only images I have ever uploaded are company logos under fair use and my own images. Gtwfan52 (talk) 08:34, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Alright, a different logo. This is a "patch" that is sold in the SHS school store, that can be sewn on clothing. You can see that it is different from the MSU logo. What do you think? Spartans patch Gamweb (talk) 09:05, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It is only gonna be fair use if it comes from the school. That is what the fair use exception is.  The use of a small low res image copyrighted by an organization to illustrate an article about the company.  To use that would be a violation of the manufacturer's copyright.  I assume that is your flickr account.  That in and of itself is a copyright violation.  And if you think this isn't a serious issue, you should take a look at Warsaw Community High School. Most sporting goods stores sell replica NFL uniforms.  Does that mean you could take a picture of a logo on say the Pittsburgh Pirates uniform and use it to illustrate an article about Pirates under "fair use"?  No.  Nor could you use that photo to illustrate an article about the Pittsburgh Pirates.  Why?  Because it would violate the license agreement the uniform manufacturer made with the NFL.  Gtwfan52 (talk) 09:29, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

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You were vandalized
I rolled back blatant vandalism on your page, hope you do not mind. If so, please accept my apologies, it was of course, BrandonthebeanCoal town guy (talk) 17:33, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
 * TY...I think we both hit it at the same time. Gtwfan52 (talk) 17:35, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I wanted to be certain you were OK with that, some folks, would not be.Coal town guy (talk) 17:36, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Never a problem...I edit a lot of high school articles and I end up getting some schoolkids antic's on occasion. You don't even need to ask!  Gtwfan52 (talk) 17:38, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

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ANI notice
FYI re legal threat ANI notice FYI Cheers! Jim1138 (talk) 08:51, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

WP:HWY/IRC
Just so you know, we do have an IRC channel that is open 24/7, if you have any questions, or just want to chat. --Rschen7754 20:19, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I know not of this IRC you speak of..can you direct me to some basic information on that? I assume it is some sort of chat thingie? Gtwfan52 (talk) 20:30, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yup, it is. You can connect to it with an IRC client; people use ChatZilla, or MirandaIM, or Trillian on Windows, or Colloquy on Mac. --Rschen7754 20:35, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Whitby, West Virginia
Hey there, do you think that Whitby, West Virginia could be a start and not a stub?? Morbid curiosity, of course. I would like to see it become a start, lots of history there.....Coal town guy (talk) 02:23, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Almost forgot, what do you think it would take to make it a start?? I have several hundred pics of the community, yes, hundred, and pretty much any artifactCoal town guy (talk) 02:27, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I just looked at that article today.  I think it is still a stub.  Also, the threshold for inclusion in a list of notable people on a settlement (or a school, for that matter) is enough notability to warrant a Wikipedia article on the subject.  The person you have as a notable resident isn't.  The standards for quality assessment are here.  Hope that helps.  You probably need to expand history and do a part that gives some sense of location (highways, railroads, rivers....means of transportation infrastructure).  Sorry if this is short.  Not in the most cordial of moods today.  Happy editing!  Gtwfan52 (talk) 02:54, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Understood, I thought they would be notable because he was one of the first residents of Raleigh County who also resided in that place. I will try harder, many thanks. Hope all goes betterCoal town guy (talk) 16:11, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Notability, and all content really, is supposed to be geared to a view from afar, not a local perspective. You are writing articles for the world.  that guy would be great in a history section, tho! Gtwfan52 (talk) 17:25, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Will do, I have read the data you referenced, many thanks,I do have the data, but in a form that will take a bit of time to format for Wikipedia. Very much appreciate the reference data.Coal town guy (talk) 21:47, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

MJism
You may be interested in this. Thanks for the help. Cheers! Evanh2008 (talk&#124;contribs) 08:33, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Anti-Messianic Bias
You don't care about "TW", "NPOV", etc.. You have a clear Anti-Messianic bias and won't even trust JewFAQ, which has a clear Anti-Messianic bias. I'm not going to engage in an edit war, but I'll certainly call you out for what you have.Nickidewbear (talk) 06:46, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

The Bible and Webster's Are Not Original Research
I didn't write them. Get a grip.Nickidewbear (talk) 06:56, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Sir, you really need to get a grip.
I am a Messianic Jew. I know what Messianic Jews do. We not do proselytize. I cited 1 Corinthians 3:5-7. The pogromists, Inquisitors, etc. proselytized. By the way, I don't go after the majority (in this case, you and your Anti-Messianic friends) to do evil. Also, I cited JewFAQ to show that any variant of "Kohen" and "Levy" is Jewish, and Tracey Rich has Anti-Messianic ("Anti-Missionary") bias on her website. If you want to go frequent Jews For Judaism, etc., go do that; but don't be Anti Messianic--unless you refuse to be neutral--here. Nickidewbear (talk) 07:05, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

USRD
Welcome! Of the states you've listed, I'd say that Idaho and then Indiana are most in need right now, as Michigan's currently at the top of the leaderboard (WP:USRD/A/L. --Rschen7754 02:32, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll get started on what I can. I'll try to create stubs on uncovered Idaho roads as my initial project.  Any leads you can suggest for sources would be appreciated, altho I think I still have my notes on 71.  On another point, a good step toward recruitment might be an easier interface to sign up on, with a more direct link to the project page, waaaay at the top.  You should just be able to enter your username in the easiest way possible and be done.  All the other crap that was asked on the sign-up could be covered by a welcome letter, just like you just sent me.  an initial contact that asks questions of the newbie is a great way to show that the new guy is wanted and needed and should lead to better retention of editors in general, not just for the highway project. Gtwfan52 (talk) 02:43, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm, it appears I forgot to respond to this. :/ Anyway, a good example is Idaho State Highway 50 - that would get all the Idaho articles created and to the "Start" assessment, which would be a massive improvement. We're still looking for sources for the rest of it, but that would be a huge step forward. There's a list somewhere with all the articles that still need to be created, and Category:Stub-Class Idaho road transport articles has some of the really short ones (including all the ones I created in a failed four millionth-article attempt, lol). --Rschen7754 01:03, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * No worries. You are busy with goal setting.  I will figure this IRC stuff out one of these days.  I am not really following what you are saying.  There are several Idaho State Highway articles missing (67 & 72, for sure, but probably more).  At least Idaho State Highway 60 and Idaho State Highway 62 are super-stub.  I will try to get the infoboxes at least completed on them very soon.  I'm planning on starting with the articles with incomplete infoboxes and then moving on to the missing ones.  That ok?  I will be happy to help with some recruitment stuff too, but I gotta tell ya, I absolutely suck at advanced (or even moderate) coding, so we will have to find someone else to code any templates I come up with. :)  Happy editing! Gtwfan52 (talk) 01:37, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * You can use http://webchat.freenode.net to get started on IRC - it's not as convenient as a full chat client but you can still log in for an hour or two. Yeah, Idaho's one of the states where anything would be useful at this point since there's not much content. --Rschen7754 02:05, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Nobody Is Proselytizing You; So Get A Grip
You are really going too far here. If you have a problem with Messianic Jews (e.g., Kogon) and other Jews who don't fit your mold (e.g., Levitsky, Nozick), go frequent JewsForJudaism.org. Who's stopping you? After all, they have plenty of Anti-Messianic bias that you can traffick in. Wikipedia is not the place to persecute Messianic and other Jews who don't fit your mold. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nickidewbear (talk • contribs) 07:12, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

I Frankly Don't Mind If Anti Messianics Like You Try To Stop Me
Besides, if you looked at the sources yourself, you'll know that they weren't my original research. And, sir, you condescending, chauvinistic attitude (e.g., calling me "Miss") is not helping. Also, the Bible specifically says the following:

2 Corinthians 13:11 [ Greetings and Benediction ] Finally, brethren, farewell. Become complete. Be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace will be with you. 2 Corinthians 13:10-12 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 13 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations Philippians 1:27 [ Striving and Suffering for Christ ] Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, Philippians 1:26-28 (in Context) Philippians 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations Philippians 2:2 fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Philippians 2:1-3 (in Context) Philippians 2 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

So, any Messianic Jew who differs from the Bible is not really Messianic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nickidewbear (talk • contribs) 07:19, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

MJism (redux)
Feel free to take it to ANI if you feel you need to. Probably very few admins are awake at the moment, so it may get a quicker response there. Evanh2008 (talk&#124;contribs) 08:22, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Just did. First time for that for me. Gtwfan52 (talk) 08:32, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Congratulations, or my condolences. (Multiple choice! :)) Evanh2008 (talk&#124;contribs) 08:41, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Notification of Involvement In POV Dispute
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.Nickidewbear (talk) 08:38, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

You're Only Making My Point
You block anyone who dares to correct your point of view. Sorry, but the Nazis were National Socialists (Leftists); Levitsky and Kogon were Jews (even though they didn't fit your mold), etc.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nickidewbear (talk • contribs) 09:03, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify, no one has been blocked in connection with this dispute. Evanh2008 (talk&#124;contribs) 09:07, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Evan. Nikki, I am going to ask you to not post on my talk page anymore.  Let's just keep the entire thread in the ANI line where it belongs.  This is not productive. Gtwfan52 (talk) 09:09, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

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Independence High School
I am an alumnus of Independence High School in Thompson's Station, TN. I understand your concern for following Wikipedia's guidelines. The academics section could certainly use some editing, but a complete deletion is unnecessary. Moreover, citation is important, I agree, but it is unnecessary to have citations for faculty. Even though I find your crusade for sources ridiculous, I have provided adequate sourcing throughout. If you wish to take a page under your wing, then perhaps the page should be something you know about, and if you do not know about it, then you ought to intensively research it. I would love to collaborate with you. I do not wish to have an editing war. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andwís ælcuht (talk • contribs) 00:07, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Firstly, when you post on a talk page, be it an article talk or a user talk, you should sign by typing four tildes ( ~ ). Secondly, the way you resolve content disputes is to talk about them on the articles talk page and I ask you to take this there.  Thirdly, being an alumni of a school gives you no special rights or privileges to edit that school's Wikipedia article.  it is actually better if you are not.  That way you have no emotional attachment to the subject.  But the entire academic section was trivial, and I completely stand by my edits and am willing to cite policy to show you where it was wrong.  Additionally, I am not the only editor that has reverted that section today.  You need to accept that Wikipedia is edited by consensus, and as it stands right now, you have none.  Please take any further discussion to the talk page and please do not restore that section until you gain some consensus as to what it should include. Gtwfan52 (talk) 00:15, 30 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I would agree with you that being an alumnus gives no special benefits; however, I highly doubt you or any other editor has been to Thompson's Station, TN. The policy you cite only warrants deletion of some parts of the section, but not all. You have consistently started editing wars through absolutist views of policy. You already got into an edit war with another high school( your 8th archive page).Andwís ælcuht (talk) 00:24, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * And if you would have looked, I was correct there, too. I am asking you to come to the articles talk page and discuss it.  If you don't want to, don't.  That is where this will get resolved, not here.  And if I have ever been to Thompson's Station, TN, it was just to pass through, but that has absolutely no bearing on the subject either.  Wikipedia only reports on what others have written in reliable sources, so why would my presence in your town or lack of it have any bearing? Gtwfan52 (talk) 00:29, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Positive repartee
I always like to learn from other editors. Check out User talk:Blast&gas. The User is being given some great advice in a calm cool manner. He's not taking the advice but some newbies have their own agenda. I'm convinced some come just to be disruptive time wasters. I like the professional way he is being handled and thought I would share it with you. TRA! ```Buster Seven   Talk  13:56, 30 November 2012 (UTC)