User talk:Johnhenrydale

March 2013
Hello, I'm Binksternet. I wanted to let you know that I undid one or more of your recent contributions to Music of Argentina because it appeared to be promotional. Advertising and using Wikipedia as a "soapbox" are against Wikipedia policy and not permitted. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about Wikipedia. Thank you. Binksternet (talk) 23:12, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Please do not add or change content, as you did to Music of Argentina, without verifying it by citing a reliable source. Please review the guidelines at Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you. Binksternet (talk) 04:29, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Your recent editing history at Music of Argentina shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing&mdash;especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring&mdash;even if you don't violate the three-revert rule&mdash;should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. Binksternet (talk) 18:34, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

I believe your editing history also shows you are engaged in an edit war, since you've now undone my edits and violated the three-revert rule too. I've initiated a dispute resolution for this reason. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Music_of_Argentina.23Electronic John Henry Dale 19:23, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Your recent edits
Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. When you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, please be sure to sign your posts. There are two ways to do this. Either: This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is necessary to allow other editors to easily see who wrote what and when.
 * 1) Add four tildes  ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment; or
 * 2) With the cursor positioned at the end of your comment, click on the signature button (Insert-signature.png or Signature icon.png) located above the edit window.

Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 19:05, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Neutral point of view
John, here's what I wrote at the now-closed dispute noticeboard entry: "John Henry Dale is a new editor here, establishing a user account just one day ago. Thus, I assume John is unfamiliar with various Wikipedia guidelines and policies. John appears to be interested in promoting himself as a DJ, music producer, IT engineer and more, with the addition of this text to his user page. As well, John appears to be promoting ZZK Records, the Zizek Club in Buenos Aires, and the people involved in the club. John added "Zizek Club" to the Music of Argentina page four times within 24 hours.
 * Added "Zizek Club", 21:43, March 28, 2013
 * Re-added "Zizek Club", 00:15, March 29, 2013
 * Re-added "Zizek Club", 17:07, March 29, 2013
 * Re-added "Zizek Club", 18:32, March 29, 2013

This behavior approaches the brightline rule of WP:3RR, prohibiting more than three reversions in 24 hours. I warned him two minutes after his most recent reversion.

Because of user page promotion and the ZZK/Zizek promotion, I have to assume that this editor is not here to help maintain a neutral point of view in music articles. Rather, I think the user is here as a promoter. The most recent change to the Music of Argentina article is indicative of what this editor wishes to do at Wikipedia: Extremely famous people such as Gustavo Cerati and Hernán Cattáneo get a very brief mention, but ZZK Records, Zizek Club, and three little-known individuals get described in detail. The weight and balance of the paragraph is completely thrown off here, slanted away from famous people and toward lesser knowns.

My advice for John is to write an article about ZZK Records or the Zizek Club within which the mention of the three club leaders would be properly weighted and balanced. Don't try to change the Music of Argentina article to promote lesser artists above very famous ones."

Please accept this advice not as condescension or "abuse", but as an experienced editor telling a new editor how things work. Binksternet (talk) 19:58, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Just because no one else has added extensive entries for Hernan Cattaneo or Gustavo Cerati (who, to be clear, is currently in a coma and, despite a well-known interest in electronic sounds, has always been much more active and famous for his work within the Latin Pop/Rock/Rock en Espanol genres with his (already well-documented) band Soda Stereo.

I am not promoting myself. Do you see a self-edited Wikipedia page entry for me under my name written by me ? No. Because it's not there. The terms which you're using to describe my supposed "self-promotion" are found on my user page, and are the same ones used on my website. They are a short summation of my professional and biographical experience. Nothing more.

I am also not promoting ZZK records and am not affiliated with them in any way. I don't even know them. The fact is, however, that ZZK records artists have been getting much more press coverage recently than any other Argentine electronic music artists, including either Hernan Cattaneo or Gustavo Cerati, with the possible exception of Bajofondo, who already have an entry above ZZK in the section.

Thus the entire TWO WHOLE SENTENCES - which is hardly an excessive amount of text to describe an entire label and stable of artists - I entered to describe them are both accurate in their descriptions and in their weight and balance within the context of the Electronic section as regards the current state of electronic music in Argentina.

If you'd like further proof, Google the term "argentina electronic music" and you will see that ZZK comes up as the third hit in a CNN article from 2009, behind Bajofondo (whose article in that search, btw, is from an Argentine publication, not a well-established international journalism website such as CNN.com).

Again, just because no one else entered more details about the other artists listed in the Electronica section of the page, does not mean that two sentences about a newer entry, which - again describe an entire label and stable of artists not just one person - are "promotional".

My advice for Binksternet is to do a little more research into the current state of Argentine electronic music before taking upon himself to aggressively police and continually negate the changes and good-faith edits made to the Music of Argentina page's "Electronic" section by someone who, despite their newbie status as a Wikipedia editor, happens to have more current and relevant information about the subject than Binksternet. Stop bullying newbies, Binksternet. You can say you're not being "condescending" but your quoted words in previous talk entries reveal otherwise. John Henry Dale 20:54, 29 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Cerati could be dead and buried and he would still merit a mention—his being in a coma is not an issue here. The article called Music of Argentina is an encyclopedia description of the very most general variety. It is not a bulletin board for updates and announcements, nor is it intended for detailed descriptions about entities without Wikipedia articles. Your insistence upon the names of three people involved with ZZK looks exactly like promotion. Binksternet (talk) 22:05, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

So using your rather circular logic (and really "tautology" is a better description of the mechanism you're using here), then, the mention of every other Argentine artist on the page whom either you or ANY other Wikipedia editor isn't familiar with, or whom you don't deem to be "extremely famous", could be seen as looking "exactly like promotion". What this is really starting to look like is that you have a bias to new information being introduced that you were previously unfamiliar with. I'm guessing this isn't the first time you've tried to aggressively police a Wikipedia entry based off someone introducing information you weren't previously aware of.

Face it: just because you've authored 163 Wikipedia articles doesn't mean you know what you're talking about here or have any expertise about the issue. Furthermore, Wikipedia is not the be-all and end-all source of information about this subject, nor is it necessarily an accurate guage of the popularity or fame of the musical artists described within its numerous pages. The fact no one has written a Wikpedia entry about ZZK records has absolutely no bearing on whether or not the information I've added to the Music of Argentina page is accurate, fair or balanced.

I'm sorry that this new information conflicts with or falls outside of your biased viewpoint on which Argentine electronic music artists deserve a reference in this page, but, despite your well-crafted attempts at trying to appear "neutral" by using as much official Wikipedia jargon in one email as possible, you are not the only arbiter of what information may appear on this particular Wikipedia page.John Henry Dale 22:40, 29 March 2013 (UTC)


 * This page goes a long way to understanding your anger at Wikipedia. If the biography about you was speedily deleted without following valid guidelines then I'm sorry. The admin who deleted the biography has quit the project out of frustration. Binksternet (talk) 22:51, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Nice try Binksternet (I imagine these types of Wikipedia disputes are a lot easier for you engage in when you can hide behind an alias and not reveal your real name), but I actually had no idea that page had even been created, nor do I hold any "anger at Wikipedia". Judging by the user ID, the user who did that was probably my wife and it's likely the page was understandably deleted for being impartial and promotional. Again, I had no knowledge of it. But hey, kudos for trying to introduce a non-relevant, personal issue into a discussion about a completely separate public one. That's very "neutral" and mature of you.John Henry Dale 23:05, 29 March 2013 (UTC)