User talk:Johnlp/Archive 2

"Name day"
Thank you, but it does not stand for Jan 1, 2007. Since Tintin, Tintin1 etc are all already taken at wikipedia and webmails, I picked a number with cricketing significance at random that is unique everywhere. (952 is more important but wasn't picked for obvious reasons :P ) Tintin (talk) 03:35, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Sydney Pardon
Many thanks for supplying his date of birth, which I couldn't find anywhere. I don't suppose that you happen to know his place of birth and/or place of death? JH 19:32, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah, I should have thought of looking there! (As an aside, it's a shame how Births and Deaths has been emasculated in recent editions. I also greatly miss the list of Test cricketers, showing who they played against, in which years, and how many Tests.) JH 19:44, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I've had the same thought, that splitting it into two volumes would be a good idea. I bet that Pardon would have done so by now. JH 21:25, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Summer of four captains
Just to make sure that you noticed this. is the problem statement. It does not seem to appear in the online Wisden, but do you remember if it was used in Cricketer or WCM ? Tintin (talk) 10:50, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks Tintin and thanks in advance Johnlp. Can I also draw your attention to this diff . Ta. --Dweller 11:33, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I put a note on the talkpage thread last night. Not sure it was particularly helpful! Johnlp 11:34, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I found that ref too... and it's not a brilliant one anyway, because it's not really used in the right way. How annoying... I can't believe that I was creative enough to make it up myself, yet I can't find any decent refs for it. --Dweller 11:42, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

? pic for Midsomer Norton railway station
Hi, I saw your recent edit to Somerset and Dorset Joint Railway & wondered if you could help. Do you know if the picture at geograph is right for the wikipedia article on Midsomer Norton railway station if so it is licenced under creative commons & we could use it?&mdash; Rod talk 22:12, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks I've added the pic - perhaps you would be kind enough to improve the caption or add more info (I've also linked to the station article from the Radstock article which includes Midsomer Norton.&mdash; Rod talk 22:32, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Radstock
Following your suggestion I've added a comment on the Talk page for Norton Radstock about possibly separating Midsomer Norton & Radstock into 2 different articles - would you like to add any comment?&mdash; Rod talk 09:34, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

B&NSR
I'm no railway expert but the Bristol and North Somerset Railway article seems fine - certainly in terms of local geography & links. Thanks &mdash; Rod talk 22:40, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

William Clarke
Hi, Would the William Clarke mentioned on the Bristol and North Somerset Railway be William Tierney Clark?&mdash; Rod talk 22:09, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Ganteaume
Re, apparently AG was the third wicket keeper. Kanhai kept wickets in the first three Tests (it seems Alexander was available but not picked) and Alexander for the last two. Tintin 00:24, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Mendip Hills
Thanks for correcting my error on Mendip Hills, I've now put the article up for peer review & would welcome any comments on Peer review/Mendip Hills/archive1.&mdash; Rod talk 10:17, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Calcutta Cricket Club
CCC is considered as the second oldest current cricket club after MCC (though it is, as mentioned in the article, probably older). The source mentioned in the article says that 1792 came to be regarded as the most authentic because the Wisden Cricketers Almanack, acknowledged to be the authority on all cricketing matters, accepted the version on the basis of the score-card of a match played between Calcutta, on the one hand, and Dum Dum and Barrackpore, on the other, as reported by the Madras Courier.. I was under the same impression that the yearly history section in the Almanacks says so but on checking specifically for this today found that it has no entry for CCC or 1792.

The Rowland Bowen article from 1967 does say so but some of things mentioned in it have since been revised. Don't we have anything newer in Wisden to support the 1792 claim ? Tintin 07:12, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

(Please reply here since this may become a three way discussion)

Will try to look this evening, but have a bad day today and it may be late. BTW, not three-way, did you spot I found two more murdereds in a book of obits? Johnlp 08:54, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Re murdered ckters, yes, I have that page in the watchlist. Never thought those lists would become so long ! Tintin 08:57, 2 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure that Calcutta is the second oldest current club or MCC the oldest. ISTR that some town club in England celebrated its 250th anniversary a decade or two ago. I suspect it might be arguable whether it was really one and the same organisation throughout all that time, though. Regarding Wisden, I think that the main Dates in Cricket History has appeared several more times since 1967, but I don't think that it's been revised at all, and I don't think that the Dates in Indian Cricket History has appeared since. Bowen died in 1978, and I don't think that anybody else has taken it on. Looking at what the Calcutta article currently says about its origins, it all appears to be correct. JH (talk page) 09:56, 2 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I can see nothing in subsequent Wisdens that changes the 1792 date, and it is also mentioned in the Barclays World of Cricket book (though I suspect that used Wisden as its primary source). Mitcham Cricket Club just a couple of miles from me here in south London claims to have been founded in 1685 and to have been watched by Lord Nelson (presumably when he had the use of both eyes, so before 1794!). Someone has believed that enough to create a Wikipedia article on it. Johnlp 22:02, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Added these two points and mentioned Mitcham specifically. Tintin 04:44, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Btw, this is what the entry in Bengal Gazette in 1780 reads :

News extraordinary from the Cricket Club : The gentlemen of the Calcutta Cricket Club are themselves into wind and preparing to take the field for a very active campaign - but as Prior observes : "The strength ofevery other member depends upon the belly timber. They are laying in a capital stock of that necessary ammunition, fed beef and claret, allowing no other intervals but the short time required for its concoction - many of the club are so indefatigable as to work double tides, at this agreeable, though fatiguing operation. Calcutta Cricket Club enjoys today the use of a splendid site as good as can be found anywhere. One reference is enough. At a meeting it was decided to admit officers of Her Majesty's regiments quartered in Fort William, Dum Dum, Alipore, Barrackpore on payment of half fess because their pay did not permit them to incur the expense. As the Cricket Club had the free use of regimental bands, they have to show some appreciation so the underpaid bandsmen gave their services to help their officers enjoy themselves.

This is dated 16 December, 1780. Tintin 09:35, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Q 437
Since this is from Herecombe v Therecombe, please wait till the others have a go at this one. Tintin 23:27, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * LOL. Despite the topic it is a little funny. I added the cat to Collie Smith too. Tintin 02:14, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Mendip Hills FAC
Thanks for your edits of Mendip Hills. I have now put it up as a Featured Article Candidate & comments, support or opposition is being recorded at Featured article candidates/Mendip Hills.&mdash; Rod talk 10:43, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

reply
thank you for letting me know, it wasn't intended to happen so was probably a mess up by the browser or my crappy computer; anyways thanks.--Thugchildz 19:25, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

About Monty Panesar
If you look at the batting and bowling section, you'll see. --71.163.66.77 22:33, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

It is true
Hello John. Yes, I've been persuaded and I've returned. I'll only be making short visits for the next couple of weeks because I've a lot on but I intend to get stuck into the 19th century material and take that forward. Thanks for dealing with those NZ article prods while I was away. All the best. --BlackJack | talk page 19:37, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Murder
Agree, we should create two lists out of it. I'll create the tables first. Tintin 13:07, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * List of cricketers who were murdered is up. Tintin 08:51, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Please do the needful for DYK. I am on to the other list now. Tintin 09:12, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

There is some confusion about the presence of David Hookes. User:Daniel Case changed "Other deaths" to "Possibly murdered cricketers". It sounds better but Hookes doesn't belong there. Strictly speaking, Hookes should not be given equal prominence as the rest when the article is about "murdered" cricketers. Another of his suggestions is to change the article title to "List of cricketers who were homicide victims". What do you think ? Tintin 04:43, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Re Hylton, may be in a notes section. In DYK, shouldn't it say that Hylton is the only Test cricketer to be hanged ? Now it sounds as if he is the only fc ckter but we can't be certain about it. Tintin 15:43, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Bill O
Hey! You started without us! (Great job btw...) --Dweller 20:12, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh heck, do yourself justice. You've done brilliantly. If someone did decide to take it on, it's in fine shape for heading to FA. --Dweller 08:20, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Bramall Lane
Thanks for the heads up! It was just my terrible spelling. I've put the extra information in the existing Bramall Lane article so the one I wrote, now called 'Bramall Lane Cricket Ground' can be deleted if you like. Thanks again. Nick mallory 08:04, 2 April 2007 (UTC) Nick Mallory

The redirect is a good idea, but I don't know how to do it. I'll look it up and try to do it, but I'd be happy for you to get rid of my 'Bramall lane cricket ground' article and redirect people to the right one through my wrong spelling. I wonder why I thought it was spelt like that? I must talk really posh or something. I wrote a piece on the "Roses Match" as well because it seemed to be a gaping hole in the cricket coverage and now I wonder if there's another article on that somewhere on wikipedia. How do these redirects work? I'd like people who look for 'Roses match' or 'Roses matches' to find my piece, how do I do that? Thanks for being patient with me! Nick mallory 09:28, 2 April 2007 (UTC) Nick Mallory

*Sigh*
and http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/288672.html Tintin 06:00, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Takes my breath away
Nick Mallory, I mean. He's quicker than Brett Lee! I see you wrote to him just before I did.

Changing the subject, thanks for your message to me. And many more thanks for all your help recently while I've been away from the site. Much appreciated. --BlackJack | talk page 21:43, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Roy Booth
Your stuff is brilliant. It's a great article now. Well done. Nick mallory 01:22, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

SDJR re Glastonbury

 * Thank you for your comments, I'm glad someone else likes the idea. Actually I've just sandboxed the Templecombe link and when the servers return from maintenance I'll put it up. Now you mention it I think I saw earthworks connecting the SDJR and WS&W from a passing DMU the day we saw Western Gauntlet in Dorchester West.

So I'll need to look into that. A few more positive views and Cock Mill goes in (!) Britmax 22:34, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Stoat etc
I had a stab at WP:CRIQ. --Dweller 15:39, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

List of premature obituaries
Thanks for your additions to this. Re Frederick Fane, you said: "By a coincidence, Mr Fane's father also once read his own obituary" - do you have any more information on this? Even the name of his father? As it ideally should have a separate entry. Ben Finn 15:26, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the message - I think I'll create a separate entry for his father, though it'll be sketchy! Ben Finn 18:09, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Cuthbert Burnup
This guy's name appears in the Guinness book but I can't remember why. Do you know if he has scored 10 off a single ball in fcc ? Tintin 18:01, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Re. the net system, the official announcement reads like this : "It has been decided to enclose the ground with nets (3 feet high) during club matches as an experiment, and to dispose as far as possible with bounds. If the ball hits the net 2 runs will be added to the score as well as those actually run. Hits over the net to be counted as boundaries, ie, three runs". The experiment was dropped after the one season (1900) because it was disadvantageous to the strong hitter. (The mention about boundary being three sounds interesting). Tintin 01:21, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

TeckWiz's RFA
Hey Johnlp. Thanks for commenting on my unsuccessful RFA last month under my old name, TeckWiz. I'm now known simply as User:R. I've been very busy lately which is why you're getting now. I will use your comment to help improve, and I hope to keep helping and improving Wikipedia alongside you. -- TeckWiz is now R Parlate Contribs@(Let's go Yankees!) 16:22, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Kapil Dev (Coach)
i responded to your comments on the talk page. Please let me know if you agree with my comments and if so, remove the merge request. Kalyan 14:18, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Re David Stevens
Yeah, it's very likely Darren. It's what happened when I wrote a lot of articles off scorecards with DI Stevens and had a guess at the first name! ;) Sam Vimes | Address me 22:54, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

O'Reilly support
Hey, just a quick word to thank you for your support on Bill's FAC, it suddenly made me realise that I ought to have paid more attention to the history of the page so that I could have name-checked you in the nomination. When I said it was predominantly a collaboration between me and Dweller, that would overlook, by far, your contributions, for which I apologise. Thanks again for your support, good work to you and all the best... The Rambling Man 19:52, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

David Smith (Surrey, Sussex and Worcestershire cricketer)
Thanks for spotting the omission of Sussex there! The name looks a little bit unwieldy with three counties in the title, but it works and that's what matters. Cheers. Loganberry (Talk) 22:24, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

weston (bath) railway station
Thankyou for your help! Just to check, is this the right building? Thanks again!! :) guiltyspark 19:02, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I'll leave the coordinates as they are for now then, just a general area is often good enough (although I of course aim for exact locations!). A photo of the nameplate could make an interesting addition to the article, if you are so inclined. Thanks again :) guiltyspark 20:22, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Les Berry
Thanks for writing such a good article. It was I who added him to the Todo list, but I never got around to writing an article myself. JH (talk page) 20:58, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

TMS
Definitely an imposter, John. I've only seen about ten minutes of the game today. Spent most of the day helping the garden to recover from the storm! All the best. --BlackJack | talk page 18:41, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

RE: Somerset pic
Thanks! I've got about 250 of them, I'm uploading good ones slowly, have ones uploaded for Kadeer Ali, Marcus Trescothick, Justin Langer as well as the Somerset CCC one, I'm also about to add a good one to the article about batting in cricket, go have a look in a few minutes! SGGH speak! 20:50, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That is my favourite, look where the ball is! SGGH speak! 20:59, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

And Image:Battingthroughshot.JPG this one, sorry for showing off! :D SGGH speak! 21:31, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That's 13 now SGGH speak! 21:59, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks :) SGGH speak! 22:40, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Bill Alley
Having looked at the infobox that you added for Alley as a player (and thanks for doing that), I then glanced at the one below, for him as an umpire. I was surprised to see that it said "Nationality: English". I suppose that he could have taken out British citizenship at some point, which would justify that, but I wasn't aware of it. I don't suppose that you'd happen to know? At the moment, the article is liable to confuse people, showing him as an Australian player but an English umpire. JH (talk page) 21:02, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * "I hadn't seen one of these umpire infoboxes before: I think I'm inclined to alter that rather than the playing one. Shall I go ahead, or do you have views?" I agree with you. Please go ahead.
 * When I started creating player articles, I didn't know how to do an infobox, so my early articles don't have one. Thanks for the offer to create some. Players lacking one are Alfred Mynn - though for so early a player it's questionably how meaningful it would be, Syd Buller, Tom Barling, Tom Rushby, Stan Squires, Tom Shepherd, Michael Barton (cricketer), R. C. Robertson-Glasgow, Ken Suttle, George Cox senior, George Cox junior, Jack Newman (English cricketer), Francis Lacey, Harry Altham. Phew! JH (talk page) 21:28, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Many thanks for the ones that you've done. JH (talk page) 08:48, 18 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, that sounds sensible. JH (talk page) 16:47, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Essex
You are completely right, I don't know what I was thinking when I lost concentration there. I completely missed the mistake until now. Thank you! Bobo. 03:21, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Wisden Trophy
I have mostly finished on the Wisden Trophy but need more info on the actual trophy, e.g who made the trophy, dimensions, weight etc... Monsta666 20:18, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

WBCR
If you have a Wisden Book of Cricket Records, can you please verify this part about Morris/Bradman from the Arthur Morris article : ''The season was marked by a low scoring match against Queensland in which New South Wales needed 142 on the final day to win. Morris took 108 runs from the opposition in only 80 balls, steering his team to victory before lunch. Until then, only Bradman had scored a century before lunch in a Shield match''. The match was the one between NSW/QLD in 1948/9. Tintin 14:18, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks (sorry for the delay). Tintin 13:56, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Active or Inactive?
Hi John. Yes, I'm finding it difficult to tear myself away. I have started a new writing project and do intend to devote myself to that but I also promised that I would sort out all those tour articles and so I am still here, so to speak. Don't know about teatime, though: maybe in time for breakfast tomorrow morning........ All the best. --BlackJack | talk page 05:04, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Specific references
Hi John. No problem with you asking at all. I'm doing a general housekeeping of mainly tour, season, club, venue and pre-20th century player articles to ensure each has correct categories, valid references, no obvious typos or falsehoods, suitable headings and, above all, a rating. Especially in the ratings, I'm ensuring that if an article needs attention because it is one of my "bare stubs" or because it has been tagged in some way, it is flagged for attention and goes into the attention category.

All of this will give me a baseline for further development with the attention items getting priority, but first I need to understand the scale of the thing.

As for the article you mentioned, it is one of hundreds that have non-specific references. I realise I was originally responsible for this sort of reference being used as a placeholder but if we are going to improve these articles to B-class and above we have got to be specific about references. So if I see anything that includes "various issues" or suchlike I am deleting or amending it. I have a problem with Wisden and Playfair because they are also used generically but I've taken the view that they are at least specific book titles and there is no doubt that the relevant issue will have material about the article (although I've frequently found Playfair in articles that are about subjects before Playfair started!).

My difficulty with the "various publications" type of reference is that it is not even the name of a book, but of a publisher, and that goes against site policy. So I've decided to remove that line and others like it where it arises. We have got to ensure that references are specific. If you look at Colin Cowdrey or Derek Lodge, for example, you will see how this particular publisher should be utilised in reference sections via specific titles.

Hope that helps you to understand the method behind the madness. I still do intend to take a lengthy break to work on other things but I remembered my promise to sort out the tour and season articles, so I decided to do that first. The talk page was changed before I made that decision so I ought to change it back, really. --BlackJack | talk page 06:22, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

John Daniell
No, I haven't begun, and would be delighted if you wrote an article. I hope you'll include the "four more gernaia, Crusoe" story. :) JH (talk page) 16:38, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for producing the article. JH (talk page) 20:44, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm having trouble tracing a source for the "gerania" story. It wasn't in any of the books that I thought were the most likely candidates. From memory, Somerset's opponents were playing out time for a draw. With something like 30 minutes left, they were about 192-8. They were being careful not to score any runs, as in those days a second new ball could be taken when the total reached 200. Therefore Daniell instructed Crusoe to deliberately bowl a delivery wide down the leg side. It duly went for 4 wides, finishing up in a bed of geraniums in front of the pavilion. (I don't know which ground it was.) As Crusoe walked back to his mark, Daniell called out something along the lines of: "Four more gerania please, Crusoe." In looking for the story online I did find two interesting links (the second a blatant copyright violation): and . JH (talk page) 19:53, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Since the story seems not to be mentioned in Crusoe's autobiography "46 Not Out", I suspect that it is false. However the story is so good and is so in character, that perhaps we might include it preceded by some words such as "Neville Cardus claimed..." JH (talk page) 13:40, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It doesn't look as if any post-WW1 Somerset v Yorkshire matches can be made to fit. I haven't checked the pre-WW1 matches (in which case Crusoe wouldn't have been involved, of course). Pity, as it would be very in character for all concerned. JH (talk page) 16:26, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I doubt that Cardus would have been at Bath in June, 1912 to watch two southern counties, so if the incident occurred he could only have heard of it at second hand (perhaps from Daniell himself?). No doubt he would have felt that Emmott Robinson ought to be involved, so changed Somerset's opponents to Yorkshire. Wanting Crusoe to be the bowler, he also shifted it to the 1920s. Another problem is that there weren't as many as 8 byes in the Hampshire innings. Perhaps we could write something alomg the lines of: "Neville Cardus told the following famous story which, though almost certainly apocryphal, would be in character for Daniell..." (With the appropriate citation.) JH (talk page) 20:41, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I found a very similar story while doing the Shute Banerjee article. According to the Sujit Mukherjee book, UP took the first innings lead in their 1949-50 match and were set a target of 230 odd in the second innings. UP fell to 64 for 6 and then recovered. The new ball was due when the score reached 150 and so as that score approached, UP refused to score and stopped taking even taking easy singles (so that they could draw the match and qualify to the next round on first innings lead). Bihar responded by deliberately conceding runs. The cat and mouse game went on for half an hour before Bihar succeeded in pushing the score past 150. The new ball broke the partnership and Bihar won by 47 runs. The hole in this story is that all this happened on the third day but it was a four day match, and UP could have gained nothing by wasting time, and so I did not mention it in the article. Tintin 05:09, 31 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Just after writing this, I looked again the scorecard and it is more likely that the problem is with the scorecard. Bihar had just started their innings at the end of the second day, and if the match ended on the third day, the teams must have bowled something like 180 overs on the last day - after bowling about 85 each on the first two days. So the match almost certainly did go into the last day, but the close of play scores for the third day are missing from the scorecard. Tintin 05:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up and for youur good wishes. I hope that you too have a good 2008. Looking at the John Daniell article just nowm it seems to me that it could do with more on his rugby. I won't volunteer, as that's a sport that I have never understood. JH (talk page) 19:12, 31 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The odds are that at least one or two people on WP Cricket will also be keen on rugby, so maybe asking for help there might be a good idea? JH (talk page) 19:46, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Robert Burton (cricketer)
You should create the target of the redirect first (Claude Burton (cricketer)), before creating redirects, or else they'll be speedied under R1. --Coredesat 09:24, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

William Oates
On User talk:Bobo192, Johnlp said: Hi Bobo. I have stuck a 'Prod' on your William Oates article because there is a second article on the same chap under the title William F. Oates that I thought had a bit more info in. I've carried across to the William F. Oates article the stuff that you had that the other article didn't, but the joined article is still more substantially Nick Mallory's than yours. I hope you don't mind too much, but I think Oates is probably a bit obscure to warrant two articles! Kind regards.

Hey there John. Nice to hear from you. Simple answer - do what you feel necessary. I feel stupid that there are now two articles on the same player, and had I realized this all along I would have been more careful with my links.

Merge whatever content you wish from my version of the article into your version at William F. Oates (as much or as little as possible, I will not be offended in any way), then feel free to stick a detailed enough db-reason on my version (or even a redirect, if you feel that's what it needs). Heck, if I notice it on a speedy deletion list before anyone else, I'll get to it. Thank you for warning me that this actually happened. All the best. Bobo. 01:31, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

A short addendum
Apologies for sending you this second message immediately after sending the first, but, if immediately prior or after you do this, you have the time or energy, could you please warn me, merely out of me remembering to do a small amount of personal housekeeping. Bobo. 01:34, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

On User talk:Bobo192, Johnlp said: I was just going to let the prod process take its course, which will leave your Oates piece hanging around until Wednesday evening next before it gets culled. I think your article was probably the original of the two: Nick Mallory probably created the other when he was doing his large-scale push on Yorkshire cricketers, and though Oates was mostly a Derbyshire player, he had a couple of games for Yorkshire in 1956.

Exactly — similar to my push to get the first fifty or so Derbyshire players an article each — I'm amazed that me, or at least someone, has now created one for each of the last 211 debutants for the team – in my list as of the 2006 season. As for the first fifty, I'm one off knocking off that list. Honestly, if it's a duplicate article, just request speedy deletion or plant a redirect for it. I got us into this mess and this'll get us out of it.

Thank you for understanding the situation better than I feel I could have. Bobo. 09:22, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Heroism?
On User talk:Bobo192, Johnlp said: What a hero you are! Thank you. No more grim pictures of the Moomintrolls on all our cricket bio pages. ;-)

I'm afraid three hours of spare time is not heroism. It's a severe case of boredom and proof of inexistence of everybody who should be in the house keeping me company. But otherwise, everything appears to be working properly now. Let me know if anything else needs to be done with regard to this. Thank you very much. Bobo. 20:05, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Help ...
Can you please check the year in which Wisden started including the full name of VM Muddiah in the list of international cricketers. My guess is that it should be some time in the late seventies. This is regarding some confusion about his actual first name. Tintin 08:06, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. The problem here is that Venatappa appears to be a typo, it is probably Venkatappa. The Venatappa used in Who's who, CMJ etc apparently came from a single article published in the late 70s. There are several Indian books which use the latter version. (If you try google, there are no hits for Venatappa which does not include the cricketer while Venkatappa has some 57K hits). Tintin 02:09, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * There is only one VM Muddiah listed in the Karnataka telephone directory but he lives in the centre of Bangalore city. The most recent article that I found on him is from 2005, he was living in a farm 70km outside Bangalore then. I'll give a ring one of these days to check whether it is the same guy :-) Tintin 05:35, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

South American cricket team in England in 1932
Thanks for the Antony Legard; I've now made South American cricket team a redirect to the tour article on the grounds that they never otherwise played first-class cricket. Loganberry (Talk) 23:22, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

SDJR Halt/Station
Thanks for spotting that an article existed on Shoscombe & Single Hill. I think the inconsistent Halt/Station labelling is just something that'll come with the territory in a project such as this one. I'll have to be careful when filling in those red links tho'! Britmax 09:10, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Shapwick
Thanks for pointing out my error caused by lack of coffee. Shapwick it is. I infer from some closure dates that there was a purge of halts in 1956 (Stourpaine & Durweston, Charlton Marshall are examples) and as part of this economy drive some stations were downgraded to halt status (Spetisbury, for example). Britmax 09:45, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Spetisbury
RVJ Butt has the name change to halt as 13th August 1934 Britmax —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 14:18, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

SDJR
Re LSWR/Midland balance. Thought that might be the case but decided to keep the momentum of producing boxes up and clean them up afterwards. Would you agree with putting Somerset and Dorset Joint Railway in large letters with LSWR/Midland smaller beneath, in the middle box? Britmax 17:56, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

P.S This sort of thing

Britmax 18:37, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

SDJR Boxes
Thanks for the thioughts and the offer of help. I did the changes and turned a few boxes round so you can flick through the line by staying on the same side. The only exception is Wimborne where the direction of the Southampton & Dorchester makes it awkward. I don't know if that matters though. As for "universal" to "widely", good idea, it is more precise.

Pictures
So Wellow gives me some idea where you might have been on the 30th of September. If you want to know where I was, Marc Bolan might give you a clue! Britmax 10:55, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that - good pictures, although Morning Star looks a job and a half. My brother and I went out this afternoon and he says he nearly suggested going out to Shillingstone! That was a near miss!? Britmax 20:44, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Jack Meyer
As founder of Millfield School and Somerset captain, he ought to have an article but doesn't seem to. The link for "Jack Meyer" in the list of Somerset Cricket Captains turned out to go to some American baseball player, so I've made it link to the non-existent article Jack Meyer (educator and cricketer) instead. As the resident expert on Somerset cricket, you seem like the natural person to write an article. JH (talk page) 20:35, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks. There's no rush. :) The 1992 (I think) Wisden has an obituary, but of course it has much more on his cricket than on Millfield. JH (talk page) 21:46, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks again. I'll advise User:Robertson-Glasgow. (I've heard the dog story before. I'd like to think that it was true.) JH (talk page) 22:03, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I'll take a look at the article, and the article for Millfield School, and see if I can add anything. JH (talk page) 09:55, 26 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Having looked at it, I think it's a good article. I've added a few categories (including English Cricketers, as I think that's occasionally useful), and made a few other minor amendments. It's a pity that the Millfield article has so little on him. (Incidentally, I've had no success in tracking down a citation for the Daniell/Robertson-Glasgow "gerania" story.) JH (talk page) 20:03, 26 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I've now added an infobox. I hope you approve. I've limited the teams listed to the 5 "main" ones, rather than listing them all. I've put Somerset first as the primary one and then the others in chronological order of first appearance. JH (talk page) 21:14, 26 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Excellent! :) JH (talk page) 17:34, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

invite to Somerset wikiproject
 Hello, this is an invitation to join WikiProject Somerset.

You may be interested in joining WikiProject Somerset. This WikiProject aims to improve the standard of all articles relating to Somerset, which includes all subdivisions of the county, major buildings, roads and other related articles.

You can help by:
 * Creating new articles.
 * Expanding stubs.
 * Adding photographs.
 * Referencing articles.
 * Research topics.
 * Anything else really...

For more information, see the project page, and if you have any questions you can leave them at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Somerset and someone will get back to you.  As you already seem to edit lots of Somerset articles.&mdash; Rod talk 17:19, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

CRIQ
Thanks, the writer was just a guess though, based on the "outlived by many years" hint :-) Tintin 13:58, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Cricket Talk Pages
I'm sorry, I had no idea. My assumptions were wrong. I'll join your group in including the content. Thank you for your note, I wouldn't have noticed otherwise. - Mtmelendez (Talk) 10:42, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Gerald Barry
On User talk:Bobo192, Johnlp said: You intimated that you weren't going to create an article for Capel-Cure's brother-in-law, Gerald Barry. So I did.

Sometimes I should watch what I say otherwise my scariest of dreams may indeed come true. In all fairness, I had no idea that Gerald Barry met Wikipedia guidelines under more criteria than merely his single first-class cricketing appearance - and hey, if this one ever goes to AfD, (which I know it won't, don't worry!) we can at least fall back on the one first-class appearance criterion. Ironic seeing as it's presumably the thing he's known least for! All the best. Bobo. 22:51, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Petrockstow railway station
Looking much better now - good one. DuncanHill (talk) 00:50, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Loxton
Great work! That's a brilliant kick-start to the article. Want to come join in with Miller? --Dweller (talk) 10:21, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds excellent. I knew next to nothing about Miller (or Barnes or Morris for that matter) before I began work on his article. For me, part of the fun is learning about these characters I'm only vaguely aware of. --Dweller (talk) 13:31, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The ship's a nice added touch - just wondering why you're so shy about your sources? --Dweller (talk) 09:40, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

RMS Strathaird
Nice job on this article. I've converted it to use a standard ship infobox (you can find the code here: Infobox Ship Example). Thanks for an interesting read! Maralia (talk) 01:27, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Colin McCool
Thanks for the info on his Somerset time. A set of Wisdens can come in quite handy. Cheers, Mattinbgn\talk 14:30, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Since I nominated it, you have added to it immensely.  I have found a head shot for him, but I think we are lacking on some of the personality section.  At Somerset, he seems to have been the hard-bitten pro, but what was he like as a Test player?  I will keep looking.  Cheers, Mattinbgn\talk 12:50, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

BlackJack
He specifically asked on the talk page that his own article should not be raised on WT:CRIC due to conflict of interest. I think you need to take a step back and realise that he is having personal problems because of this "dispute" that you have broadcast to everyone. It is not just an article on WP that is the problem. You are not helping the situation at all. Obviously the other two articles should be raised at WT:CRIC so no problem there. By the way, my name is Albert Wright, not John Leach. I met John/Jack via WP because of our common interests in sport and stamps. --AlbertMW (talk) 11:37, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


 * John, thank you for your reply. Jack's point was that people applying for admin are not allowed to "canvas" their projects and he thought the same should apply here.
 * If you care to look at the now historical versions of mine and Jack's talk pages and also of the User talk:Richard Daft talkpage, you will get a much clearer idea of what this has all been about, bearing in mind that Jack has received a few very nasty anonymous e-mails lately and a couple of suspicious no number phone calls.
 * Good luck in the new year. --AlbertMW (talk) 07:35, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Your submission
Thank you for your intelligent submission. If you are of a mind I can only refer you to either the ACS committee(I am not a member) or Mr Peter Wynne Thomas at Trent Bridge where transcripts of a certain correspondents e-mails are held on file. I think anyone reading these can only come to the conclusion that Wp as a whole, despite considerabled perfectly fine contributions regarding player biographies, has benefited by his resignation. I believe that WP can provide incomplete, slightly inaccurate or occasionally out of date entries. These are picked up and altered as time goes by. Wat it can never have as 'authorative' entries if you like, are a persons misguided crusade. Cricket has attracted these. Major Bowen, a man who carried out masses of remarkable and completely original research, ruined it by littering his work with some trenchently held personal views. I would argue that genuine experts like Wynne-Thomas, Douglas Miller(no friend of mine I might add), Goulstone and Warsop, are dispassionate interpreters of considerable personal research, much of it original. On a point of information I was on the ACS committee and edited the Journal in 2005-6 and have incontravertable evidence that some of Mr Leach's claims as to endorsements of his work are utter fiction. He did produce a list of pre-1800 scores that collated much previous research by a variety of people. It was a good list but like a number of others mulled over at the time, included inevitable errors. It was the opinion of some who had a detail knowledge of the subject(not me), that it reveal a want of first hand research. That was no big deal because it was thought that Mr Leach was very reasonably not providing a council of perfection. His subsequent behaviour involving rude and vitriolic emails to people attempting to engage him in a discussion(again, not me) revealed someone who perhaps had a greater, much greater idea of there work than was remotely credible. as I have staed to Mr Wright, John Leach has a wide and detailed knowledge of sport and could be described as having considerable knowledge of pre-1800 cricket, certainly greater than mine. However flaws in his methods and a reliance on secondary sources mean he could not be described as an expert. In particular Mr Leach makes unsubstantiated claims. Some - there is a decline in reporting of cricket during the 1760's which Mr Leach attributes to the seven years war, there being a similar decline during the Napoleonic period, is a fair point but where are the citations - where is the analysis of primary data and sources. As an example, I questioned the estimable Tony Percival's use of the Salop team as a Shropshire County side in the 1840's. In fact in my home county we use Salop for Shrewsbury, many still do. Howeverto try and work this through required a trawl through those papers to confirm that this was so. Days of work for not a lot. People like Warsop and Wynne Thomas have spent years on pre 1800 cricket, at libraries and looking at Primary sources. Sorry to go on and best wishes. (I don't have email) Mark Asquith —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard Daft (talk • contribs) 01:25, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * John, I don't think I need to introduce myself, do I? Lets see if I can make an intelligent submission too and take some of these incoherent points into account, shall we?
 * Albert has already answered the one about the "rude" e-mail and the rest of the first paragraph simply doesn't make sense because it is so badly written: does he mean "ACS" when he says "Wp"?
 * Second paragraph is equally baffling though I wonder why Mr Miller is not his friend? Mr Miller seems such a nice chap too.
 * Endorsements. An interesting word.  If you look at the article that was written about me it simply states that the ACS published this, that and the other on either its website or in its journal (or both).  Nowhere does it say that Mr X endorsed the article.  Distortion of the facts.
 * Everything he says about that pre-1801 article is drivel. That article was created jointly by Keith Warsop and myself with inputs from four other people including John Bryant whom he mentions elsewhere.  There were originally three matchlists (mine, John's and Keith's) and we worked together to consolidate them.  We also worked with CricketArchive to get scorecards of all those games onto its database.  When the article was ready for submission after being reviewed by about ten people and then effectively proof-read by Keith, I submitted it as I was maintaining the master copy. It was not published in the ACS journal until after Asquith had, er, "resigned" from the role of editor because he wanted to delay it (and some good submissions by other members) while he included his own work instead (one of the main reasons why the committee got shut of him).  The article was eventually published after Asquith had gone.  His whole premise that it is wrong to collate information from other sources is frankly ludicrous: I have a book by his idol Goulstone which lists over 30 other books in its bibliography so is he saying that Goulstone (like all authors) does not collate information from other books?  Of course we got the information from other sources: Buckley, Waghorn, Ashley-Cooper, Britcher (Keith Warsop especially relied on Britcher), Haygarth and plenty more.
 * The series of "vitriolic mails" that led to my resignation from the ACS were nothing whatever to do with anything I had written but with an issue I had with the ACS committee about its failure to address the question of 18th century match status in a reasonable time. I decided that they would not progress the matter and I resigned because I felt my time had been wasted.  I still have all the mails in question.
 * Nowhere have I ever claimed to be an "expert". In my own book, I have spelled out in the introduction that I welcome constructive feedback and ideas for improvement.
 * Unsubstantiated claims is an interesting one. There are hardly any cricket references at all during the time of the Seven Years War and so I have presented my analysis of the social and political situation at that time which is that this war had a severe effect on cricket, especially upon investment in cricket.  I don't claim any particular credit for coming to that conclusion: the fact of a major war at the same time as a noticeable decline in cricket is a pretty big clue, I would think?
 * I might ask exactly what good it has done the recent researchers to spend so much time in libraries going over primary sources that have already been comprehensively documented by Buckley & Co. but there we are. I write as a pastime and don't have much time to spend in libraries but he is wrong to assume that I have not done so: after all, my book does contain a number of primary source references and would you believe it I have actually looked at old newspapers in libraries on a few occasions.


 * John, turning to another matter, although again Albert answered it before he understandably decided that he had enough. My book is there for readers to use so that they can see what Buckley & Co. wrote about all these long ago matches.  If you are studying matches in the 1736 season do you want to traipse round a lot of libraries trying to find Buckley and Waghorn or would you rather just look at a copy of the details on the internet?  If you want to delete all references to that book from the site, then write a bot that will do it.  I don't care.  I thought I was helping the readers but if I shouldn't be helping the readers then what am I doing on the site?


 * As for the controversial article, I have just tried to renominate it for AfD but I can't do it because there is already an AfD page. I have discovered that the Gibbons reference had the wrong date and, as I don't know the correct date, I have removed that reference which means there is now no verifiable source for the philately bit.  I have also removed anything about the ACS which does not involve actual writing so that means there is now very little to satisfy a policy like WP:RS.
 * I would like that article to be removed, not because Asquith is right but because I am sick of all the trouble it is causing me given the existence of people like Asquith. I cannot find any way whereby the subject can request its removal so it has to be done via something like WP:RS.  If you would try and get that done for me, I would appreciate it.


 * As for Jack becoming a "model citizen", Jack is a model citizen in the real and wider world and he has many other interests to pursue. I have decided to follow Albert's advice and find something else to do, so I am finished with both cricket and Wikipedia.  Goodbye.  --The Ghost | séance 10:05, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Acknowledgement
John, thank you for your message which I will reply to in due course. In the meantime, please see this discussion on the admin pages.

Regards. --AlbertMW (talk) 06:56, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

John, I am resigning from WP. I am utterly disgusted that someone like this Asquith can be allowed to wage a campaign of invective against another person. I see he wants to forge an alliance with you now, so I will leave you to decide about that.

As for the John Leach article, there is nothing to stop you from renominating for deletion. The previous AfD is not a precedent. Perhaps Asquith has some "facts" and some "verifiable evidence" that he can contribute.

As for Jack using his book as a source, you have conveniently overlooked the fact that he also lists Buckley, Waghorn, McCann and all the rest as sources too. The point about his book is that it provides consolidation of all their match references so that anyone on the internet can see them. If a reader would like to try and obtain a copy of Mr Buckley's books, he might find it difficult, and then how can he verify the reference? I really don't see that it is a problem but, in any case, I'm now past caring.

Goodbye. --AlbertMW (talk) 07:39, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

John Leach
I am sorry Mr Leach has continued his fictions. His article was not delayed but printed in thre parts due to length. The last part was held back when a large amount of ACS business was presented for inclusion at the last minute and I was anxious not to strrtch the article over to many parts. Incidentally, Keith Warsop is a close friend of mine but it is not for me to express his opinons. For someone not on the committee, and never on it, John seems to have privileged access to different information from my minutes of meetings I actually attended. Please contact Mr Wynne Thomas for examples of John's friendly emails. I have decided to close this issue. MA —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard Daft (talk • contribs) 14:33, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Please note that Richard Daft has been blocked indefinitely from using the site on account of his many violations including the threat to User:AlbertMW. See User talk:Richard Daft for the administrator's ruling.  Time to move on.
 * I have decided to continue as the Ghost, for the time being, because I was thoroughly enjoying myself until Boxing Day by just concentrating on new articles about underarm and roundarm players, so I will see if I can restore that level of enjoyment.
 * If you wish to do anything with a certain article then it is fine by me. And if you have an issue with a certain external source, again, fine by me.  You must do what you think is right.  I know you have the best interests of the readers at heart.  Best wishes.  --The Ghost | séance 17:52, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

My note

 * Thank you, John. Much appreciated.  I think you may now understand a little about how I came to fall out with a certain group of people although I am not entirely blameless (like Roy Keane, I have Irish blood and a red mist to match).  There is nothing I would like more than to just enjoy a quiet life (or death!!) and (for the time being) work out how many matches James Saunders played in the 1820s before his untimely death from consumption.  What really, really annoyed me about the "Mark Asquith" episode was: that was not Mark Asquith.  I know who it was but I'd better not say.  Back to James Saunders and dozens of other guys who could wield a bat or a ball when Keats and Shelley were still alive: the romantic in me.  --The Ghost | séance 19:51, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Polite request
Would you please remove the first five items on this talk page and also remove this one? It doesn't matter if you delete them or add them to your archive as they will still be in the logs. I cannot give you a full explanation for this request but please accept that it is made in all seriousness. Please do not reply as I am no longer using the site except where it affects my interests in terms of what is on open display. Thank you. --BlackJack | talk page 21:07, 13 February 2008 (UTC)