User talk:Jolandawilliams

January 2008
Please do not simply remove tags placed on articles. There is also no need to place page breaks at the end of paragraphs. Thank you. ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 20:44, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Please refrain from removing tags from articles. I have already requested that you do not do so. The only time tags should be removed is once the articles have been sorted with regard to each tag. For instance the "unreferenced" tag you keep removing yet you are not providing sources. (See WP:VER and WP:RS and please also see WP:CITE for a long explanation of how to add sources. If you need advice on how to add sources and/or help to do so then you need only ask). That tag should only be removed once you provide valid, verifiable sources and not before. ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 21:19, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I have no idea what tags are. Also, I work for the organization. I am trying to update the Wiki pages for accuracy. The Web site should be reference enough. How can I communicate with you if you do not have a place that I can e-mail you? Thanks - jo

No worries, you are clearly trying to add good content. You can leave messages on other users talk pages the same way I did on yours. After each message users "sign" their messages by adding 4x tildes (these ~). And if you click on "talk" at the end of this message you can leave a message on my talk page. However, I am more than happy to chat with you on here. The tags are the thing sI placed at the top of the articles, that you have removed twice now. The tags that say "this article may require clen up" etc. They need to stay on the article until that has been sorted and not simply removed. With regard to the references, self published sources are not really the best references unfortunately. If that is all you have at the moment then we can just use them for now. However, if there are other third party verifiable sources that you know of that mention each topic (for instance American newspapers online that mention the orgainzation) then they would be great to add. There are templates to add for sources. But the way in which you are adding references at present is not the correct way to do so. I will have a go at formatting the two you have added in the correct place for you, then you can see where they should go. ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 21:42, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Just to add that I have added the "in use" tag to the MƒA Fellowship article. Just let me amend it and I will then let you know? ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 21:43, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for your coments. . . I realized I didn't know how to format references, so I took it down. I am trying to format the reference section for out Web site MfA. We do have various articles that talk about us, but that will have to be a longer process. How long before the tags come off? Also, We have old entries in the Wiki dictionary that are now defunct. . .namely Newton Fellowship and Newton Master Teacher Program. . .I basically just left them for now, and updated the information with links to the new name. . .I think that should work for now. I don't know what Wiki's stance is on removing current dictionary items. Do they just wind up staying even once they are defunct? Let me know and thanks much. - jo

OK bear with me while I reformat the MƒA Fellowship article and then maybe that could be used to them re-format the other associated articles? I have also found a third party cource from seed magazine online which mentions how MFA came into being through James Simons so I wll be able to add that as a source on there and it can also be used as a source for all the other associated articles. I will let you know when I've added it. With regard to the tags, one I have added the seeds magazine source I will amend that tag to another one "refimprove" which is just a tag stating that more sources are needed, and I will also remove the "clean up" tags. ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 21:55, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay, cool. Thanks much! - jo

Have a look at MƒA Fellowship‎ now as I have added the seed magazine link and amended it. Might I suggest that the background section is also used for some of the other articles and for the main Math for Ameroca article with the source? ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 22:21, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I've also redirected Newton Fellowship Program to MƒA Fellowship and Newton Master Teacher Program to MƒA Master Teacher Program as there should only be one article for each topic and redirects sort that out. ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 22:25, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the redirect, I appreciate that. There is a problem with the background section, though. . .Our founder does not want to overshadow the program. The background as you have written it overshadows the fact that he was not the sole person developing MfA. . .he is the funder of the organization. . .also, the program was created to recruit, train, and retain, math teachers - both new and current. The background, the way you have edited it doesn't do the mission of the organization justice. Thanks for some of the other edits, though. Is it necessary to have a background section, especially with all of the links embedded in the page that lead to the "mother" page for MfA, the page that truly explains more about the program. too often our founder is mentioned in the media for his $ instead of his MfA mission. I was trying to keep our Wiki pages from making that same mistake. Let me know your thoughts. i am headed to the gym fo rthe day, but will look for your response in the morning. have a god evening. - jo

Also, we use Fellows as a proper noun, hence the capitalization of the word. Also, Jim funds the organization, bu tthe organization was brought to fruition through an advisory board/board of directors.

No worries! All content can be changed but at least by adding sourced content it is a basis from which it can be changed. There is no problem with removing his name, maybe it should only be in the main Math for America article and then not in the other articles. The background section is brief and should really be in each article though even if it is also in the main Math for America article. I will though amend it as you mention above. Have a fun evening. My evening is nearly finished it's nearly 11pm here (I'm in England)! :) ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 22:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay, so I am looking over your edits, and there are several mistakes. . .I take it I have to now go in and correct these, yes? based on your comments, that's the point, so that's good! Whew! LOL! Our organization does not have "replicable" programs, but in fact our partner sites have similar programs, bu tthey are not identical. Also, the organization is in the process of splitting into an mfa national and mfa chapter sites. . .although mfa NY haas a 90K stipends, all sites do not. they vary and can be more or less depending on sites. hence the need to include these numbers only on pages specific to mfa ny and where it is clear that mfa ny was used as the model. anyway, i will go back in and clean up tomorrow, but i wanted to give you a heads up so that you would know what i was doing adn why. i am trying to get our information as accurate as possible and some of your edits are in fact distorting that information. but i do appreciate the help. good night and talk later. - jo

Indeed, the info I was adding was all taken from the Seed magazine article - so blame them if any of it is wrong :) :) However, it was just to get sourced content on there first and foremost and then you can expand/correct it. It is always best to start from sourced content no matter whether some of that content is 100% accurate or not; as I said you can amend it. I wasn't trying to take over what you were doing just trying to add a source and show you how to do so, then you can add the content and sources from there. I've removed the "£90k" from it now (I think from all the articles). But at least it gives you an idea of how to add the references. Have fun! ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 22:56, 31 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I have merged relevant content from MƒA Fellowship, MƒA Master Teacher Program and MfA New York into Math for America, and changed the separate articles into redirects. There was a great deal of overlap and duplication between the contents of these articles. Much better to keep all the Math for America content in one article. Gandalf61 (talk) 14:38, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi there, sorry I didn't get your messages until just now. I will have a look over the article for you shortly! Have fun! ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 21:16, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Copyright problems
Hello,. Concerning your contribution, MƒA Los Angeles, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from either web sites or printed material without the permission of the author. As a copyright violation, MƒA Los Angeles appears to qualify for deletion under the speedy deletion criteria. MƒA Los Angeles has been tagged for deletion, and may have been deleted by the time you see this message. For text material, please consider rewriting the content and citing the source, provided that it is credible.

If you believe that the article or image is not a copyright violation, or if you have permission from the copyright holder to release the content freely under the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL) then you should do one of the following:


 * If you have permission from the author, leave a message explaining the details at Talk:MƒA Los Angeles and send an email with the message to "permissions-en (at) wikimedia (dot) org". See Requesting copyright permission for instructions.
 * If a note on the original website states that re-use is permitted under the GFDL or released into the public domain leave a note at Talk:MƒA Los Angeles with a link to where we can find that note.
 * If you own the copyright to the material: send an e-mail from an address associated with the original publication to permissions-en(at)wikimedia(dot)org or a postal message to the Wikimedia Foundation permitting re-use under the GFDL, and note that you have done so on Talk:MƒA Los Angeles.

However, for text content, you may want to consider rewriting the content in your own words. Thank you, and please feel free to continue contributing to Wikipedia. DGG (talk) 04:31, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Math for America article
Tangerine. . . i need your help again. . .I just logged on and all of the pages that i just added have now been taken down. The MfA Fellowship and Master Teacher pages as well as the site pages. Is that possible or am i missing something? When i do a search for MfA Fellowship, it links me to the MfA page. Also, the MfA Site pages are also missing. Do i need to repost these? And why are the links now dead on the page?

Also, I just read the comments above and they make no sense. We previously had both a program overview page and a fellow/master teacher specific page up. Why now is it that we cannot have both? Please help me. BTW. . .I work for MfA and am trying to update the pages. . .please help me to make this as simple as possible. . .this is becoming rather difficult to get the information as accurate as possible.

Hi there! Yup I noticed that the articles had all been merged into the one main article. If you scroll up above this section you will see a message from Gandalf61 who has merged all the articles into Math for America and included all the content you added in there, just in one full article rather than all the different articles so that all the information is available in one good article rather then being duplicated in a number of articles. Perhaps that is the simplest way for all this then it is all contained within the one article? Have a read of the article and see if it includes all the information. I must admit that to me as a total outsider it does seem easier to read about the whole project one one page where anyone can then find out about all the various Fellowships in California and NYC as well as about the porgram itself. ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 19:08, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah. . I have been checking it out. . .I guess it works out okay. . .the only problem now is that when you do a search for mfa fellowship online it goes directly to teh mfa wiki pages instead of it's own page, whcih is okay. . .but what about the mfa san diego and mfa los angeles pages? BC teh mfa ny pages have been embedded into this piece, it moves away from the fact that we have a national mfa organization and are now branching into chapter sites. how will i be able to add info on the chapter sites if everything is in one article. . . i guess we can deal with that later? but what abot MfA SD and LA. . .those pages were stripped as well. what to do? thanks - jo

OK, I have added two new sub-headers under the "expansion" header for San Diego and LA. You can add info about each of them under there. The main details about the whole project as it stands talks specifically about it in relation to NYC which I presume you would also wish to amend when you can? Don't worry too much about the specifics of it all as even if it takes a while, in the end it will end up a decent article. Just keep plugging away and you will get there in the end! ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 19:26, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

okay, that sounds do-able. . .but part of the delimmna is that we are in fact a new york based program that is expanding nationally. . .as we expand, the program changes depending on what city it is in. . .all sites have their own, yet similar vision, mission, and program components. We hope to have several sites in the next year. . .so, teh question is. . .what will we do once we have ten new sites. . .at that point, the page becomes too long and search terms like mfa sd and mfa la can not be found directly. . . at what point would wiki allow for new pages to be developed instead of them all being combined into one? for instance. .when i go to the teach for america wiki page, they are able to link to the cities where all of their programs are located. .our programs vary depending on site, so it will be important to have them listed separately. we envision reaching even greater proportion than even them http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teach_for_America

The Teach for America article only links to the cities and not to individual articles about Teach for America in each of those cities. If you look at this history section where it says, "TFA is now active in 26 communities:" then all the links below that are to the city articles such as Houston, Texas. And after the list there is a small line about further expansion referenced with a link to TFA website articles about future development. As MFA expands so can the article be changed to suit. Slowly, slowly though. ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 19:45, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

okay, cool. thta sounds okay. i will update the page shortly. also, i have a lot of references i would like to post, but is it correct that when you post references they need to be attached to certain sentences within the article? They can't just be listed at the end? We have tons of articles and Web references about our program on our Web site that I can use, but I don't know that linking them to all of the sentences is the smartest way to do this. Or woudl i just put them in a Notes section or the external links section. Please advise and thanks again for all your help. - jo

All you need do is add the reference using the template I added in full, at the end of the relevant sentence/section to which it refers. That will then add it to the References section at the end of the article. It isn't a matter of linking them to the sentences not being a smart idea as all that will appear at the end of a sentence/section is a number which when clicked on will show the full ref with the URL and details in the references section. Have a go at doing it and I can always have a look at it for you afterward. Have fun. ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 21:23, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Okay, tangerine. . . I made some final edits. . .when will the "This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. Please improve this article if you can. (February 2008)" come down? What else needs to be changed on the article for that to go away? I will work on adding more citations next week. I am headed home now. Talk soon and thanks again for all of your help. - jo

I've removed the "clean up" tag as it is no longer appropriate. As the article still needs more sources though I have elft the "refimprove" tag on for now. Have a good weekend. ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 23:06, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

New Questions Re:Math for America Wiki Article
Tangerine, I need your help again. I am adding in references, but am not 100% sure how to document the sources. After I post them, can you go behind me to check and see if I added them properly? Also, how do I reference media clips? I have one from CNBC and one from CBS I would like to include. I should post something soon. I am trying as hard as possible to get that verification thing off. A couple of people internally and externally have already asked about it. Thanks again for your help. Talk soon - jo

Tangerine: Okay, I edited the page and added a ton of references. Can you please take a look at them and let me know if I have formatted them properly. Also, now that the page has substantial references up, is it possible to remove the "This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding reliable references. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (February 2008)"? Please let me know. Thanks much and talk soon. - jo

Hi there Tangerine. I just got your message. Have you had a chance to take a look at it yet? I also would like to add a book reference. How can I add that? "The book is: The Age of Turbulence: Adventures in a New World" by Alan Greenspan, copyright in 2007 on pages 404-406. Let me know. And thanks again for your help. It is appreciated. - jo

Patience :) Onlyhad a brief look so far. Don't worry wikipedia isn't going anywhere and it will all get sorted! I have for now redirected a couple of talk pages that were from some of the old articles to the Math for America talk page. Just a quick question about the book, which specific part of the MFA article do you want the book ref to go? I can add the it in for you if you like? ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 21:25, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

My Apologies!
Okay, sorry! I was getting worried. I thought you had forgotten about me. . .the book talks about Jim having founded the organization, about the Fellowships that are being offered to math teachers, and it also talks about the legislation that was created in congress using MfA as a model. So any of those places in teh article where those three things are talked about would be great. Thanks again for your help. I aapologize for being a bug-a-boo. . .I just thought you went AWOL! :o) Glad you are still here . . .there! Thanks much and talk soon. - jo

Hi there my apologies for not doing so earlier, I have been concentrating on other articles, but I promose I will help now! I'll let you know once I've had chance to have another read through the article again. ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 22:14, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

OK, first things first, are these the correct details for the book above -

The isbn I have taken off Amazon, but if youc could just confirm if that is the one as there is more than one isbn on there? If the details are right, I can add it as a source into the article. Am I right in that pages 404-406 cover the founding of MfA, the Fellowship to math teachers and legislation in the US congress using MfA as a model? ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 22:33, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Happy Valentine's Day, Tangerine! Yes, you are correct! That is the correct book and those are the correct pages. If you are around today, I will stay logged in so that I can communicate with you about any questions you may have. . .just let me know! Jo 17:38, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

OK I have added the book source in two places which seem to be the relevant sections (in the lead and in the Fellowship description). However, I can't find anywhere on the article that mentions Congress and legislation? ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 18:26, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, no, Greenspan doesn't have anything to do with Congress or Legislation. . .he just advocated for national programs that would bring STEM education to the forefront. The two places you edited are perfect. When will the citation flag be removed? We must have enough references now, right? Were you able to verify that they were listed correctly? Let me know. I am still here. talk soon. - jo 20:17, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Tag removed!
Hi there, sorry not to do this yesterday, I have though removed the "refimprove" tag now as there are more than enough refs on there now and the article seems (to me anyway) to be fine. If you need help at any time at all with adding content to the article just let me know. Have fun! ♦Tangerines♦ · Talk 14:46, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

You Are GREAT!
Thanks for all of your help Tangerine. . .I really appreciate it! I will let you know if I need more help. Best - jo Jo 21:39, 27 February 2008 (UTC)