User talk:JonathanConner03

Hi. I noticed that you changed back my edit a line in the lyrics of the article 'Sailing the Seas Depends on the Helmsman', from 'Maoism' to the original, 'Mao Zedong Thought'. Since you provided no explanation for the change, I was just wondering if you could give me your reason. While the phrase 'Máozédōng Sīxiăng' literally means 'Mao Zedong Thought', it is merely the appropriate Chinese euphemism for 'Maoism'. I would direct you to Wikipedia's article on Maoism, in which 'Maoism' and 'Mao Zedong Thought' are seen to be interchangeable. Since 'Maoism' is the more commonly used term, I decided to change the word used in line with Wikipedia's mission to make articles accessible and straight-forward. If you would like to rebut my assertion, I'm happy to debate this point. --Jln Dlphk (talk) 02:46, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, of course, Máo Zédōng Sīxiǎng is literally Mao Zedong Thought. While that can certainly be interpreted to mean Maoism, it is also very debatable. It is a minor change, however it is also more accurate; Maoism is a much more western word, while the Chinese government and Mao himself preferred the term Mao Zedong Thought. There is also a difference in the meaning of the two; while Maoism is just based on all the actions taken by Mao, Mao Zedong Thought is a more selective term, with "good Mao Zedong Thought" and "bad Mao Zedong Thought," described by his successor Deng Xiaoping. You can actually refer to the wikipedia article for Deng Xiaoping Theory if you wish. It explains that following the exact teachings and actions of Mao (this would be Maosim) is actually contradictory to Mao Zedong Thought. Another difference is how the terms are seen in the world. While Mao Zedong Thought is universally recognised as referring to the teachings of Mao, in Western Europe Maoist also describes communist countries that aligned towards China rather than the USSR, which did not necessarily follow Mao Zedong Thought or Maoism as you think of it. Jln Dlphk (talk) 04:47, 29 June 2012 (UTC) Maoism himself often argued that there was no such thing as "Maoism," especially in his early years and instead said that he was simply continuing the tradition of Marxist-Lenninism. The literal English translation should use the least interpretation necessary, and while it is a very minor issue the term Mao Zedong Thought is more accurate, which is why I choose to make the change. --JonathanConner03 (talk) 03:56, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

First of all: 'Maoism himself often argued...".  Bad form, my friend, bad form.  And have you started 1 yet?  You should really try to download it instead of just discovering it.  Then, it'll be easier and less subject to 'interference'. Mao also argued that there was no 'Mao Zedong Thought'.  And Deng Xiaoping is not exactly the model communist.  And the countries that allied themselves with China against the USSR did so because they ideologically agreed with Mao over Lenin and Stalin, so that still makes them Maoist.  And while westerners may have applied different meanings to the terms 'Maoism' and 'Mao Zedong Thought', don't forget that westerners also managed to change the meaning of 'Epicurean' from someone who follows a philosophy of tranquillity in the world to someone who likes food, so go figure.  Also, again, regardless of what the two terms may now mean in the west, they are still the same term in Chinese, so they can't possibly have two different meanings in Chinese (you know, being the SAME EXACT PHRASE and all). Also, contrary to what you said in the email, this is your talk page, not mine. --Jln Dlphk (talk) 04:47, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

You are right, it should be Mao himself often argued, good job catching that. Yes Deng Xiaoping is not exactly a model communist true, but as the successor of Mao as the leader of China he is certainly qualified to try to define Mao Zedong Thought. Some countries may have ideologically agreed with Mao, but if you look at the countries that became "Maoist" you will see that (with the bizarre exception of Peru) Maoism and Maoist movements spread in Asian nations with proximity to China, while Eastern European Countries remained with the Soviet Union. It seems that Geography is the main factor behind which countries tried to adopt Maoism. Unless you are of course under the opinion that Easterners are more genetically predispositioned to follow Maoist Communism, while Westerners follow Stalinism.

Perhaps Westerners do strange things sometimes, however we would like to strongly emphasize the fact that this is a western Wikipedia, with a primarily western audience. We would like to draw your attention to the Chinese Wiki if you want to escape from Western definitions of words.

http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:首页

Finally we would just like to stress the fact that this is a literal english translation, and the translation with the least interpretation should be used. Mao Zedong Thought is the most literal definition; if you want to interpret that to mean Maoism then go ahead, and if other people want to interpret it differently then they are free to do so as well. Translating it as Maoism is imposing your beliefs and interpretations on the readers, while you should try to be as unbiased as possible.

P.S. Ownership? How capitalist. That said it is "your" talk page by virtue of the fact that it is a talk page created by you.

--JonathanConner03 (talk) 14:16, 29 June 2012 (UTC)