User talk:JontyWoodall

Welcome!
Welcome...

Hello, JontyWoodall, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like this place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
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Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically produce your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome! Bilby (talk) 12:04, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Peter Goers
Hi! In relation to the Peter Goers article, the best method would be to raise any concerns you have on the talk page for the article. Most of it is sourced, and replacing a sourced version with a non-neutral unsourced version is problematic, especially when it appears that you are relying on unpublished documents which probably won't meet the reliable source guideline as your references. I'd love to see any problems fixed, but we really need to address them individually rather than through the current method, and our rules on the sourcing of biographies of living people are very strict. - Bilby (talk) 12:08, 18 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Dear Richard,


 * While I do apologise for breaking your etiquette regarding the Peter Goers article I am a very close friend of Peter's and he has asked me to correct various inaccuracies which are anecdotal and in no part your fault. He thanks you very much for your work and we feel that the new entry keeps very close to the spirit and style of yours. But Peter does ask that you please allow the new text to be left as is.  Peter can be reached at the ABC at goers.peter@abc.net.au if verification is required.


 * Yours sincerely


 * Jonathan


 * Hi. The difficulty is that we can't accept unreferenced material in a biography. While I fully understand that Peter Goers may well be requesting the changes, the problem is that Wikipedia relies primarily on verifiability: we can't accept material in biographies of living people (where we are especially careful) if that material can't be independently verified. Unfortunately, someone's personal account doesn't tend to meet this unless it has been published - if Peter has a published biography which can be used, or other published material that can be incorporated, this would be great. If not we're stuck with secondary sources, which are generally preferred anyway.
 * However, in terms of possible inaccuracies you only seem to be making some minor changes: you've changed the date of birth, which I presume to be correct now, mentioned that he has studied Arts at Flinders, added his work as a historian, changed his theatre career, removed the mention of Ireland, and cut back on what was there about FIVEaa. Most of those don't seem to represent significant problems. I can see cause to incorporate those changes, however there are two problems: the prose is no longer neutral in tone, which is a significant concern, and you've removed all of the references.
 * If there are specific inaccuracies that need to be addressed I don't see any reason not to do so, and I'm happy to see content that Peter disputes removed, so long as doing so doesn't overly affect the neutrality of the article. But it would be far better, I think, to modify the existing content than to try to replace it with something that doesn't meet Wikipedia's requirements. Perhaps we could work on doing this? - Bilby (talk) 13:51, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Further to the above, I've made an attempt at merging the two versions to try and meet Wikipedia's requirements, while taking into account the changes you seem to need. Hopefully this is ok. However, if you would like to make changes, rather than reverting I'd like to suggest that we discuss the changes that you would like to see. Unfortunately, if you continue to revert the changes by replacing the text with unsourced content you risk coming afoul of the various policies on Wikipedia, which I'm hoping we can avoid.
 * I'm also very happy, if you wish, to open up discussion about any changes you would like to make. The best way of doing this, of course, is to discuss them on the article's talk page, which is sadly lacking in commentary. :) However, we can also discuss the issues on the biographies of living people noticeboard, which I've found to be a great place to work through issues.
 * As an aside, I'm not sure who Richard is, but he isn't me. :) - Bilby (talk) 14:37, 18 June 2010 (UTC)