User talk:Joseph10741

Welcome
Hi, Joseph10741. Welcome to Wikipedia!

I hope you like it here and decide to stick around. If you see something on Wikipedia that you want to change, just press the edit button and change it!

For the basic principles, see the five pillars of Wikipedia. And if you're ready to make some edits, this Wikipedia cheatsheet may come in handy.

Cheers, ChzzBot IV (talk) 22:58, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation


I noticed your submission in Articles for creation, Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Rami Bar-Niv. Thanks! It will be reviewed by a volunteer soon.

Before it can be added to Wikipedia, your submission should have references. All articles on Wikipedia should have inline, numbered references after facts, showing the 'reliable source' (a newspaper, book, etc.) where the information can be checked, so that all information is verifiable.

Here's an example of how to add references: Chzz is 98 years old.&lt;ref> "The book of Chzz", Aardvark Books, 2009. &lt;/ref>

He likes tea.&lt;ref> Smith, John. " Interview with Chzz", Foo News, 1 April 2010. Retrieved 2011-05-22.

== References ==

That makes the references automatically display as small numbers[1] which will link to the details in the section titled == References == at the end. You can see that example in action here.

Please add references to your submission, which will be reviewed as soon as possible. See also, Referencing for beginners. If you need any help, just put at the end of this page, followed by a question or get into our live help chat chanel at.

Best, ChzzBot IV (talk) 22:58, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved.
 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, you can find it at Wikipedia&.
 * To edit the submission, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the help desk or via live help
 * Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! Hallows AG  ( direct your questions on your article here ) 06:58, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved.
 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, you can find it at Wikipedia&.
 * To edit the submission, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the help desk, via live help, or on the [ reviewer's talk page]
 * Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! Alpha_Quadrant   (talk)  18:58, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

In response to your feedback
The thing to remember, Joseph, is that we're creating an encyclopedia. It is complicated and, I'll agree, sometimes annoying! :) But there's a reason for that. To ensure that Wikipedia IS a great encyclopedia, guidelines and process have to be in place. I hope you don't give up on it. Try and understand the need for some of the things that are annoying and complicated.  Please let me know if you have any questions or problems!  Just click "Talk" after my name and you'll go to my talk page and you can leave me a message.

  Wikipelli Talk   17:51, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

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In response to your feedback
Much of the text for your article seems to have been pasted or directly copied from here. This copyright violation is not minor and is not allowed on Wikipedia because it is illegal.

Harkey (talk) 18:33, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

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Your submission at Articles for creation
 Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved.
 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, you can find it at Wikipedia&.
 * To edit the submission, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the help desk, via live help, or on the [ reviewer's talk page]
 * Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! Dalisays (talk) 22:17, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

In response to your feedback
Possibly WP:42 will help.

Ariconte (talk) 02:10, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

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"AWESOME" JOB Wikipedia Reviewers!

You seem to be focused on frustrating individual contributors, rather than helping with getting an article published!

When I compare my article to other similar articles, it seems to me of equal quality -- still you keep rejecting it.

Please compare to this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itzhak_Perlman

How about YOU edit it instead? You seem to know very well how it should be written.

I stand in awe watching this endless back-and-forth and the lack of progress in publishing this article. What is your objective? To frustrate contributors??
 * The objective certainly isn't to frustrate contributors (though sometimes we could do a better job of encouraging!). I have a longer response below, but you brought up the Perlman article and it's good that you did because it illustrates many of the things I say below.


 * Perlman performed at the White House. You see after that bit of information that there is a reference cited - A White House press release. This is the kind of thing that is missing from your article. This is what is necessary to establish notability. It's true that not all information in the Perlman article is cited (actually, I was quite surprised to see how little was cited!), but there are enough to establish notability and more can be added.


 * Unfortunately, you're at the stage with your article that you have to establish notability to begin with. As I said below, references on his work after being a student would go a long way to helping establish that.   Wikipelli Talk   02:38, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Also in response to your feedback
The reasons why the article is not passing the review are all there in the notices, but they might not be clear to someone that is not used to 'Wikipediaspeak' :) When I looked at the article, I was struck by the fact that there are many references to the artist as a student of this teacher or that teacher.  So, the fact that he was the student of someone famous is established. However, in order for the subject to have an article in Wikipedia, 'notability' needs to be established. In short, blunt language, is this subject 'important' enough? I'm afraid that's an inelegant paraphrase, but it's appropriate. I know you believe that the artist should have an article, but there are no references to his work after he was a student. I see that he "received the "Best Performer Award" from the Israeli government". That's great. Now what's needed is some mention of that in a newspaper or journal.

The article also mentions that he was invited to play in Cairo in 1979 on the occasion of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty. It should be an easy matter to find some 3rd party mention of that to cite in the article to verify the claim. The article mentions that he gives performances "to critical and popular acclaim". If the acclaim is there - perhaps in a review of a performance by a music critic, or even just an announcement in a periodical that he's going to perform or did perform - there must be citations available to use.

I do not believe that these are false claims and I hope I'm not giving you the impression that I believe they are false. Hopefully, I'm giving you a sense of what is required for this article to be 'passed'. Editors sometimes need to scour library holdings or the Internet for references that support what is in articles. I hope that you're able to find some sources (that are reliable) so that editors and readers have verification of the information. I hope this is helpful. I can tell that you're frustrated. If I can be of any more help, please feel free to let me know.   Wikipelli Talk   02:30, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

If someone would just care to check the very first reference, they would find that this is a link to Wikipedia itself, with a list of notable(!) and famous israeli composers.

So, if someone still doubts that Rami is not 'important', then why is he listed on a German page with a list of famous and notable Israeli composers??

Maybe, whoever doubts the 'notability' is not qualified to make that judgement, and should rather take a hint from the cited German wiki page.

Are there any reviewers who are knowledgeable in classical music?

Maybe it would be a good idea to have reviewers who are knowledgeable of the subject matter?

the Israeli-Egypt peace treaty was in '79, Rami visited Egypt in '81 -- that was _before_ the World Wide Web!! you might want to check this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCSA_Mosaic

Just because I am not able to cite a reference, doesn't un-do that it is a FACT.

http://ramibarniv.musicaneo.com/about.html

http://events.stuff.co.nz/2011/sep/st-marys-bay/rami-bar-niv-piano-recital


 * The second link can be used in the article. Please include it! It's not enough, but it's a start. The first link, if you look at the bottom of the page, says, "This is the personal page of Rami Bar-Niv. MusicaNeo does not monitor its content." This suggests that the information was placed there by the artist or a representative and therefor wouldn't be considered 3rd-party.
 * Also, references that you include do not have to be on the web. They can be in print also - books, magazines, newspapers - all that is required is sufficient information for readers and other editors to find the source and verify it. The burdon, in Wikipedia, is on the author to verify, not the reader.   Wikipelli Talk   03:08, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved.
 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, you can find it at Wikipedia&.
 * To edit the submission, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the help desk, via live help, or on the [ reviewer's talk page]
 * Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! B  music  ian  03:51, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Regarding your submission Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Rami Bar-Niv
Hi! It appears you are trying to get this article accepted but are very frustrated with it getting declined over and over again. I promise that I will help you resolve the issues and that it will be accepted, no exceptions.

The article currently lacks reliable sources that are independent of the subject. Wikipedia and other user-generated content are not considered reliable, and your article seems to be heavily based on those types of sources.

There are also a lot of information that is not even supported by a reliable source. Our biographies of living people policy is very strict about that. I will mark any information that needs to be supported by a reliable source with a [citation needed] tag. Please replace those tags with a reliable source to support the facts.

Also, please note that references don't need to be on the Internet - publications such as books, magazines, and other sources that are reliable can be used as references.

Please note that I am a classical musician, and I have heard Bar-Niv's playing on YouTube and enjoyed it. Therefore that means I can provide better help than any other AfC reviewer to you.

B music  ian  03:13, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Even though the article still has issues, the issues are small enough to allow the submission to be accepted. I've moved it to Rami Bar-Niv. You are more than welcome to continue improving the article. Best wishes, B  music  ian  03:35, 29 March 2012 (UTC)