User talk:Joseruiz1986

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Luis Eduardo Moreno
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Colombian politician articles
Hi Jose, I noticed that you have edited some articles in relation to the MIRA party, which is great, but I thought I would offer some advice as to how to improve your articles following Manuel of Style. First of all, I don't know for sure, and I'm going to assume good faith, but if you have a direct connection to the MIRA party, please remember that you have to maintain a neutral point of view, and to heavily reference each MIRA-related article to avoid a conflict of interest. Be specially mindful of contentious words (see Manual of Style/Words to watch), I did notice some in some of the articles I edited.

Now, Spanish Wikipedia is another world, I won't discuss what normally goes on there, but in the English Wikipedia we never use flags in infoboxes (also see Template:Infobox person for a detailed description of how to properly use infoboxes). Also when using the Template:Infobox officeholder remember that MIRA is not a public office, offices should be reserved for elected or appointed government positions, otherwise it can be used for "President of Olimpica Stereo" and other informal private offices. Please avoid using succession boxes at the bottom, their use is discouraged specially if the offices are not of a political office (not a party), and more so if an infobox is used, which it is. Also Remember that the information should not be presented in forms of lists or boxes as this does not make a paragraph or provide direct references. For example in the Carlos Alberto Baena article, it says he has been Councillor for Bogota D.C. three times, when this is not true, he was Councillor once, but re-elected twice. In any case I am just trying to help, I hope all articles in relation to Colombian politics follow a similar format that abide by Wikipedia standards. I have edited Alexandra Moreno Piraquive to comply with all the things that I mentioned, I hope you can see that now all the information is provided in a streamlined manner, similar to other Wikipedia article. The information is the same, just integrated in a way to reflect on her personally and not on broader terms like MIRA electoral results, and the infobox is free of icons. If you have any questions or comments please let me know, I hope you continue editing Wikipedia, y yo también hablo español por si acaso. mijotoba (talk) 20:27, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Reply
Hi Miguel, In response to your message, I have to say that it was nice being lectured by you. You have been very clear and kind and have enlightened me in several things. You were right in your assumptions since I don´t have direct relations to MIRA, and so the contentious words and related content in the articles is a result of the translation I made from the original articles in Spanish (and you know that things are different in that world). However, after you clearly showed me where to check the words I need to avoid, I will fix the articles in a reasonable amount of time. Well, about the references, I will also check them, but I only have those who have been used in the original articles.

I have seen the work done on the Alexandra Moreno Piraquive article and I find it all right (thanks, by the way). I will try to adjust the rest of the articles to comply with the established rules and format. Well, all in all I wish I had your wiki-advice in the future, since it is apparent that you are much more experienced than me in this area. Thanks a lot for your politeness. Ah, y no había necesidad de la aclaración, con lo de "President of Olimpica Stereo" era más que suficiente (lol!).--Joseruiz1986 (talk) 03:20, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Correction
Well, apologies for reading your instructions right after disobeying them, but this time it is you who changed the rule of replying to messages. I already corrected the mistake and put my reply here. Chao. --Joseruiz1986 (talk) 03:31, 17 June 2013 (UTC)


 * No worries I actually forgot that I had put that request there until I saw that you had undo your comment. I was not trying to lecture you in any way, but I didn't want to be like "you did it weird, fix it cause I dont like it" kinda way, so I'm glad that you took it nicely, I have made PLENTY of mistakes over the years (7 years now) and I only wish someone had pointed out some of the mistakes I made back in the day, I still see articles that I created years ago and I feel silly for doing some things, so I only wish to help anyone, specially when it comes to articles about Colombian politicians which is my main focus.


 * The sources issue is understandable, there is hardly any information about most politicians, CongresoVisible is a very reliable source though so that's pretty good, and all articles on Colombian congressmen should have that a source; searching eltiempo.com is also helpful cause sometimes they do interviews or pieces about politicians, also semana.com is good and has a good archive. The one thing I would say to avoid is to use the candidates own websites as a reference, because even though they will be the most trusted source about themselves, after the elections they usually delete the site and all that information is lost and so the source will not be reliable in the future. And yeah I was going to say President of Olimpica (the store) but I wasn't even sure whether they still exist (I havent been in Colombia in a long time) so I changed it to Olimpica Stereo cause I was almost sure that that is still a thing in Colombia. Anyways do take care, let me know if you have any questions or encounter any problems with Wikipedia, it's great that more people are interested in editing articles about Colombia.mijotoba (talk) 04:16, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Request for review
Hello again Jose, after engaging with you over the MIRA politicians, I saw that the status of all pages relating to the Senate of Colombia are in horrible, outdated condition, so I am working on updating some of the info and at the same time in creating new content, and I would like to hear your opinion on the current things I'm working. I am working on a list of current Senators of Colombia, I am not sure whether I can/will make it into a standalone list, or whether I will just fuse it as part of the current Senate of Colombia article, but I feel that page should focus more on the institution and procedures than on its current members, and the information I have gathered would definitely outweigh the current information on that article. I was also working on user:Mijotoba/List of Presidents of Colombia to replace the current List of Presidents of Colombia; it has considerably more information on the presidents and will once and for all (hopefully) solve the issue of indexing presidents and vice presidents by order, as well as provide a list of important colombian figures for anyone interested.

If you could take a look at those pages, let me know what you think, what can make it better, or if you have any questions. I will be meeting with other wikipedians this weekend, and will ask their opinion as well, but I feel that you being Colombian and having some familiarity with the topic might have a better input than the wikipedians I will be meeting. My goal is to make the Presidents list very clear, readable, and complete to make it into a featured list; for the senate list I wish to make it an accurate source for the current senate. mijotoba (talk) 04:53, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

About the review
Hello Miguel, I read your message and checked the wikipages related to the Senate and you are quite right in your appreciations. Those articles are poor in content and structure, and the Congress of Colombia already contains the fundamental information presented in the Senate of Colombia and Chamber of Representatives of Colombia articles (I guess that there is need to fuse those articles, don´t you think so?). I also think that you are right in proposing that the focus of the aforementioned articles should be on the institutions and not in their members. Of course, the parties and members should be part of those articles, but as a complementary part of them.

I checked the current and proposed list of presidents and I think that yours is more readable and I found it great that you give a historical description for each of the periods in which Colombia´s history is divided. I also saw that you suppressed the information about those periods before the independence from Spain, which is logic since this article is about presidents of the country after Simon Bolivar´s time (apologies if I write non-senses sometimes, but you should bear in mind that my area of knowledge is very far from yours and that I am not that good at History or Politics). Nevertheless, what do you think that will happen to the information that you propose to dismiss in the future article? All in all I like your work and also thank you for thinking about me as a supportive member of this task.

Respecto al mensaje anterior: 1) Digamos que sí, "lo hice raro", pero ese era el formato de los artículos en Español, así que solo los traduje y dejé con la misma apariencia (la que encontraste), 2) Ya corregí el artículo de Carlos Alberto Baena y te agradezco por las correcciones a los de Alexandra Moreno Piraquive y Manuel Antonio Virgüez, 3) ¿Crees que ya con esos cambios se les puede retirar esa bandera en el encabezado que dice "This article may be in need of reorganization to comply with Wikipedia's..." o hay que hacer algo más?, 4) Los supermercados Olímpica todavía existen, pero Cali ha cambiado bastante en cuanto a infraestructura en ciertas áreas de la ciudad (muchos puentes nuevos, por la Avenida Colombia (al frente de la iglesia La Ermita) los carros pasan por un túnel y hay un boulevard en donde antes era vía vehicular, etc., y 5) Yo sé que usualmente se toma al verbo "to lecture" en forma negativa, como en "don´t you lecture me", pero en la universidad todos asistimos a las "lectures" impartidas por los "lecturers", así que personalmente no me parece malo "to be lectured" si se hace de manera amable y constructiva. So, your lectures about Wikipedia are welcomed and thanked for.--Joseruiz1986 (talk) 09:44, 20 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Pues yo nunca conocí Cali, yo vivía en Santa Marta hasta los 12 años y luego me vine para los EEUU, por eso me meti a Wikipedia, porque quería aprender mas de Colombia ya que sabia muy poquito al haber venido tan joven, y al ver que no había suficiente información acerca de Colombia me dedique a editar para remediar la situación. El problema con la Wikipedia en español es que no hay suficiente gente para controlar la cantidad de artículos y mucho menos para generar un consenso de lo que se necesita en un articulo, así que aunque la mayoría de artículos relacionados a políticos colombianos siguen un patrón similar, ese patrón en si, no es valido en wikipedia, pero no se cambia porque no hay suficiente gente disponible para eso, así que es muy normal cuando se transiciona articulos del español al ingles encontrar dificultades. La sección "Publications" se debería llamar "Selected works", normalmente se llama "Works", pero como la persona esta vive existe la probabilidad que la lista no este completa. De todas maneras, creo que esta sección se debería eliminar ya que no se tiene los ISBN, y pues prácticamente sin eso, el libro no existe como publicación si no como copias personales, si tienes al alcance los libros usa esta plantilla: Template:Cite book, y pon por lo menos esos parametros: . La seccion "Achievements and Awards" no es algo que se usa normalmente en Wikipedia, o por lo menos no en este formato (lista en vez de prosa), mira la sección "Awards and honors" del Dala Lama: 14th_Dalai_Lama. De todas las cosas que se listan, solo están dos con referencias, las otras deberían eliminarse por no tener referencias, y la referencia de lo que lo hicieron ciudadano honorario viene del MIRA, la referencia debería venir mejor de la alcaldía de Quibdó por que se asumiría que es solo propaganda política ya que la única fuente de que esto ocurrió fue su propio partido, y aunque también se puede usar esa fuente, es mejor buscar fuentes no relacionadas directamente con el sujeto en especial para cosas contenciosas como premios. La sección de "Personal life" debería ir debajo de la carrera, ya que a el se le conoce mas por político que como persona, solo en ciertos casos como cuando el articulo es bien largo, entonces si se ordena cronológicamente con su vida personal al principio, y tiene que tener referencias para sus padres, su esposa, las escuelas y títulos obtenidos. Lo de enlaces externos tambien se deberia eliminar, no se puede hacer enlaces externos a sitios sociales como youtube, el enlace del miraismo es del miraismo, no acerca del Senador Baena, el de la pagina del senado ya se uso como referencia, y el de la pagina oficial de el ya esta enlazado en la plantilla infobox. Se que es....mucho, lo que se necesita, tal vez por eso es que hay tan pocos artículos de politicos colombianos en ingles. Aun así, si se quita las secciones que mencione se puede dejar el articulo como esta y aun así tendría suficiente información relevante, con suficientes referencias para saber quien es el y que hace, la ves pasada ayude a la hija de una escritora Colombiana, ya se me olvido el nombre, y aunque ella tenia un mundo de información al respecto, la mayoría no se pudo usar por esas mismas razones. Voy a darle otro vistazo a los artículos para ver que mas puedo hacer para mejorar los artículos, la etiqueta esa ya se puede quitar poque por lo menos ya cumple con la estetica de wikipedia, que es a lo que hace referencia esta etiqueta, pero se remplazaría ahora por una que dice que falta referencias, mira a ver si encuentras otras fuentes para la información, si no pues quitas las secciones, y se deja un poco mas simple, mira como el de Alexandra.


 * Thanks for looking over the articles too, the things you said are right, and those are the things I want to make clear when I finally put the articles online. And I agree with you on the presidents before Simon Bolivar, I was very hesitant about that, I actually was thinking of putting them, but I agree with you, they were before Colombia was Colombia, maybe they should be included in another article, but if the list is about "presidents of Colombia" then they should not be counted. As for the pages on the Senate, the Chamber, and the Congress over all, I wish I could do more, but I am not an expert on Colombian legal politics, and there are things that are unique to the way the colombian system works (no one else has two vicepresidents in senate for example), so its hard for me to improve those articles without knowing fully, or truly what they are about, BUT I WILL TRY! mijotoba (talk) 20:35, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Finalization of recommended improvements
Hello Miguel. I have finally included all of your recommendations about the article Carlos Alberto Baena. Could you please give it an approval or, if necessary, give me more recommendations? Anyway, thanks a lot for your support! Por otra parte, bueno, antes de hablar contigo pensé que el supermercado Olímpica y la emisora radial del mismo nombre estaban presentes sólo en mi región.


 * Hi José, I checked it and I just removed some lines that I found redundant and other minor details, but I removed the citation templates because the article looks complete now, good work. I don't see what else to say about the formatting, of course more information could be added about his political views and senate workings, but it's hard to find clear sources for that information about him or anyone else really, Colombian media is more set on reporting about the scandals and less about actual reporting, plus political parties rarely hold their members to a defined platform so even within parties people hold wildly diverse positions. I realized this while I was working on creating the article about Juan Manuel Galán Pachón, which I'm still working on. I figured I would create more articles on Senators since I created the new List of current members of the Senate of Colombia and there are barely any senators with a proper article. Galan seemed easy to create given his history and potential future, but even for him I found more information about his wedding than about his work in Congress which is frustrating and telling about the way politics and media works :S


 * Y no, al contrario, Olimpica estereo es de la costa (ve Organización Radial Olímpica), asi que eso es mas de nosotros que de Cali, y lo mismo con Almacenes Olímpica, todo eso es de la costa, asi que aparentemente los caleños se creen costeños jajaja. mijotoba (talk) 20:39, 2 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks Miguel, but the final article is the result of our joint work, so you also get credit for that. Nevertheless, I would like to ask you something: if there is only one General Preacher at the CGMJCI, why is it that you used "a" instead of "the"? Of course, the answer may be simply that it is grammatically correct what you did, but I wanna be sure. Well, I also wonder why you removed the word "minister" from Baena´s description at the beginning of the article. Any reason? I mean, he has been a neo-pentecostal minister by far longer than the time he has been a politician. Apart from this, I am glad with the changes you made, thanks again for your selfless help. About Juan Manuel Galán´s article, it seems good considering the prevailing yellow journalism in our country.


 * Jajaja, ¡te di pie para sacar el orgullo pues! No, no interpretes mi falta de conocimiento como un deseo de pertenecer a otra región, así que no, los caleños no se creen costeños. Como dicen: Cali es cali, y lo demás es loma :P. Bueno, bueno, no vamos a empezar una batalla regionalista, lo importante es que somos de Colombia. Por otra parte, hablar de este tema me permitió saber el por qué los Char son tan influyentes en la política colombiana, así que fue un efecto colateral positivo.--Joseruiz1986 (talk) 10:17, 3 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh okay, that's my mistake, I assumed there was more than one General Preacher, then yeah it should be "the" instead of "a", and I did take out the minister part because I felt that the first part had more about his political life, and the second paragraph already mentioned he was a preacher, and because minister and General Preacher are not necessarily interchangeable, having different terms would be more confusing. mijotoba (talk) 00:39, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

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