User talk:Journalist/Archive 19

Unreferenced BLPs
Hello Journalist! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 1 of the articles that you created  is tagged as an Unreferenced Biography of a Living Person. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to insure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. if you were to bring this article up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current Category:All_unreferenced_BLPs article backlog. Once the article is adequately referenced, please remove the unreferencedBLP tag. Here is the article:

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 * 1) Nella Martinetti -

Celine Dion Voice section
I don't expect you to follow each edit made on the Celine Dion article, but you have obviously been unaware of the user's WP:DE behavior. They have been vandalizing the article for quite some time now, and were recently banned from editing, thanks to my complaints. The user made personal insults to me, and would not engage in any discussions at all. That is why they were banned. So, before you point fingers, at least get all of your facts in order. BalticPat22Patrick 05:07, 10 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't think you understand. I didn't make the "Voice" section--the now banned user did. I didn't even want it there. All I was doing was preventing the user from making additional edits that were either false or were uncited. Personally, I was suprised that you came back to the article, entirely. Your user page says that you were "retired", which was bad for me, because I sure could hve used your help when this user began a massive edit revamp on the article. I'm not here to confront you. I am just a bit tired from trying to keep the other user "in check", and your behavior about something that I didn't even begin is getting too much for me to handle right now. You have no clue how much stress that user put me through. They didn't give any reasoning towards why they created the new section, and kept adding more, and more irrelevant info to it, all the while making personal insults. I hope we are on the same page now, because if something like this happens again, we cannot be on opposite sides. Thanks. BalticPat22Patrick 22:12, 10 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Haha, well I think we both can agree that Wikipedia can be a bit stressful at times, but we stay because we believe in reputable editing. That said, I want to apologize as well. I have acted quite testy with people as of late, which has to do mostly with a personal situtation, and not anyone's particular actions. Honestly though, you can do whatever you want with the "Voice" section. Seeing that neither of us created the section, and knowing that you are a much more experienced editor, I have no qualms whatsoever with what you would like to do with it.

The only thing that I would like is to keep the original wording that was once a part of the "Artistry and Image" section. That includes her vocal range, the NY Times quote, her ranking in some of those polls, and some of the other critiques of her voice. I think those facts give a balanced review of her voice. Again, I appreciate your honesty and hopefully you'll stick around Wikipedia, even though it can, at times, be a royal pain.BalticPat22

Sasha Fierce article
How does it make sense? She is also a producer. Should exec.s even be there? Dan56 (talk) 00:46, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Celine Dion Photo
I don't want to get into a scuffle, but I do not like that photo of her. Frankly, it's ugly. The other one was much more flattering, and actually showed her singing, not standing in a weird pose, like this one. The other one was from her Taking Chances Tour as well, and is is much better in my opinion. Also, I could have sworn that there was a clause in the editing section of the article that stated photo changed need to be discussed, but I guess I was mistaken. Regardless, I don't like the photo one bit, and hopefully there is another one that can be used. BalticPat22Patrick 17:01, 9 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I didn't even notice you purposely deleted the clause that stated "Image Changes Must Be Discussed" until just now. That is competely unneccessary and wholly uncivil. I don't particularly care if the photo doesn't please you, but you need to discuss it beforehand (like the clause said), and not take matters into your own hands. You of all people should understand that. I am frankly very surprised right now, and I am hoping that you can explain your reasoning for all of this. I don't get it, at all. BalticPat22Patrick 00:25, 11 March 2010 (UTC)


 * This is to acknowledge your latest entry on my talk page. For various reasons, I will be backing off on the situation, perhaps revisiting this in a few days. Dl2000 (talk) 04:39, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Beyonces Page
Im sorry I didn't mean to put one on Alicia keys. Ill remove that. However beyonce doesnt have it listed as how many records she has sold as a solo artist. No longer being in a group solo album sales matter more than with the group. Another thing was Destiny's child sold 53 million I believe as a group. So I don't understand how anyone could think she has sold nearly 50 million as a solo artist which brought me to my first problem with the article. Beyonce has 3 solo albums and she sold at least 48 million? Her first album went 4 times platinum in the united states, her second went 3 times platinum, and finally her last album went double platinum. Which means she sold from 9-12 million in the United States. So I doubt shes sold more than 30 million outside the U.S. Im aware she went platinum in other countries but in some other countries 100 k is platinum. Those are my problems with the articles as well as a lack of trust worthy citations for proof and some improper grammar. Texasmade2010 (talk) 18:03, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

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Thank you. DASHBot (talk) 00:11, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

really good edit
That was a fine piece of editing, my friend. :) - Jack Sebastian (talk) 16:40, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Let me know if I can be of further assistance. I don't really listen to his music, but I am aware of the narrow path that BLPs must walk. :) - Jack Sebastian (talk) 22:17, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

You may be interested...
...In the outcome of this sockpuppetry case, which involves. Just a heads up. — ξ xplicit  19:31, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for notifying me. I had suspected similarities in their edits and had blocked both for their involvement in the Usher article. I should have contacted a checkuser, but it must have slipped me mind. Oran e   (talk)  01:49, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit summaries
Jivesh has come a long way since his blocks, and I've been trying to impress the importance of sources and good edit summaries on him. It would be nice if we could avoid edits like this one, where you reverted him without explanation. It's hard for him to figure out why his edit had problems if no explanation is given, and that leads to him reverting to edit-warring.&mdash;Kww(talk) 16:49, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. I had explained the reason for my edit in my edit summary yesterday when I reverted him, but he either ignored it or hadn't seen it. Oran e   (talk)  17:33, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

3RR
Please note that the three-revert rule refers to "more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period", not or. What you appear to belive it is would be called a two-revert rule.Furball3 (talk) 22:43, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Is there a point to all this? Oran e   (talk)  01:54, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Populist
Regarding your favourite films and music on your home page. Your tastes are EXTREMELY populist, one would think that you are a sheep that only follows critical opinion. Frightened of liking something not popular, or just not as intelligent as you like to think you are? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.10.210 (talk) 22:07, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I never once said I was intelligent. lol I simply like these songs/artists/movies for various personal reasons. There is actually a story behind a few of them. But yeah, I've been told that my favorite movies are popular, but not necessarily "good". Then again, liking something that isn't necessarily popular doesn't make you any smarter than me. People seem to automatically assume that popular=bad/tasteless, while indie=smart/tasteful, which isn't necessarily the case. It just means that you like it. It's all about personal taste, and if you think I have bad personal taste, that's fine :-) Oran e   (talk)  03:25, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

JeremyStalked and Beyonce
This may give you insight into his edits and his declaration that those sources aren't "reliable" -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 05:57, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads up. He hasn't responded yet, however. I'll just wait, before I revert anything else. Oran e   (talk)  20:00, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Beyonce's associated acts
Hi, I have undid your revision on Beyonce's article on her associated acts. The reason behind this is because all those people who were there before you changed it, have worked with Beyonce on several occasions. Lady Gaga has only collaberated with Beyonce. Please check her discussion page for more details. I hope you understand. ozurbanmusic (talk)

Please Stop!
Once again, associated acts are not just producers, but for people beyonce has worked with for several years. they do not include collaberations of just one or two songs. associated acts are people beyonce have worked with on her album, songs or other ventures. If you do not understand, check other singers articles. Ozurbanmusic 08:58, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Merry Christmas
Please, join the discussion here. Max24(talk) 20:55, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

File:Beyonce Sweet Dreams.ogg
Hi! May I ask you something? Since you uploaded the file could you please, if it is not too much trouble, reduce the time of the file to at most 21 seconds, per MoS music sample. Of course I would do it by myself but I don't know how to do it. Thank you. Tb hotch Ta lk C. 18:57, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I actually don't even remember how to do it, to be honest, and I don't have the programs to do it. That was over a year ago. I'll try to read up how to do it. Is it an immediate thing?


 * Also, under fair use, it could be allowed to stay. I remember a discussion&mdash; I can't remember where&mdash; and the author, who I believe was an admin or a bureaucrat, was saying that the 10% thing was just a rule of thumb. And he also said that if we can justify the use of a longer sample, it is permissible. For example, in the critical review section, one of the reviews commented on the expertise in the sound and her vocal styling, saying, "The vocal performance here possesses an elegantly gliding tone that perfectly maintains the tension in the lyric and arrangement. ... However, she tempers it with a stunning sense of control. Each time she climbs into agitation here it is almost as if she takes a quick breath then settles herself back to a slightly less tense state" . If we move the sample down to critical section, or if we expand the caption in the sample box to include a comment like the above, we could make a case for it. What do you think? Oran e   (talk)  02:45, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Of course it is an excellent idea. Thank you for letting me know. Tb hotch Ta lk C.  02:51, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that the rationale use was added. Tb hotch Ta lk C.  06:23, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

The Saturdays
Yeah, ya caught me. I can't keep away from this place lol. I'm waiting for a start date for a job so I've got little to do with my days in the meantime... eeeek. x Extraordinary Machine (talk) 18:00, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol, I was wondering about that. I thought it was just a one-time, house-keeping thing. lol. Hopefully, you can come back and help bring some quality to these articles. Good luck on your new job. I too am waiting for a call about a new job. Submitted my resume and waiting for the call back. Keeping my fingers crossed. Oran e   (talk)  18:05, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry but there was no reason to undo my edits. I have removed unsourced information as well as adding links to Headlines (EP) which now exists. That is why you should look at all the edits very carefully before you revert. Don't worry we've all been guilty of it. But next time check exactly how much baby you're losing when you discard the bath water!.--Lil-unique1 (talk) 18:12, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
 * My sincerest apologies. My edits were not aimed at you, but at the blind revert of Extraordinary Machine's edit by the anon editor. Oran e   (talk)  18:21, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Amor Prohibido
Hey can you do a 30 second sample of the song and add it on the article (Amor Prohibido (song)) please? Thanks AJona1992 (talk) 17:15, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * It's going to take a while. I'm off Wikipedia for a few days, and when I'm on, I can only spend a second. Also, I can't remember which programs I used. But give a few days and I'll see what I can come up with. Is there any particular section of the song that you want highlighted? Oran e   (talk)  03:07, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Review?
Hi Journalist, I just noticed you're edit to Higher (The Saturdays song) and thought ... "Hey that was actually really good". Aside from thanking you for that, I wondered if you'd be interested in reviewing some articles on my behalf? I recently got When Love Takes Over to GA but the reviewer said that the prose was not of particularly good prose. So I've nomed it with the Guild of Copyeditors. Also I wish to take Commander (song) to FA but have never done it before so any comments people can make are always useful. If you could help with either of these, that would be most appreciated. Don't worry if you can't, I am being a little forward here... =) --  Lil_℧niquℇ №1 &#124;  talk2me  22:35, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Any help you can give will be appreciated. I'm glad to help and its great that people think I'm making a difference. It makes it more enjoyable. Thanks --  Lil_℧niquℇ №1 &#124;  talk2me  21:19, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Radio by beyonce
Can yopu please upload a 30 second music sample of "Radio"? Please, i need your help. Jivesh boodhun (talk) 18:05, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for replying. Let it be. I am happy to see that you would have definitely helped me if your computer is good. Intention counts. Jivesh boodhun (talk) 06:29, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Take a look here. Jivesh boodhun (talk) 18:35, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

If you like MC
Check this out-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   19:31, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Mariah Carey
The Mariah Carey WikiProject is now initiated! If you'd like to, you can join here. Thank you. Novice7 | Talk 06:05, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Beyoncé
If you want to join add your name at WikiProject Beyoncé Knowles. Thanks, Jivesh boodhun (talk) 06:32, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi
Hi Orane, so I know your a fan of MC, but I guess you don't have time to re-create articles and stuff. SO I have promoted like 16 Mimi articles to GA, and I'm trying for FA, but they are mean and tricky editors there. So I was wondering if you would be willing to sporadically perform really small and easy copy-edits, just whenever I'm going to nominate for FA. Do you think its okay? It yes, can you please take a look at "All I Want for Christmas Is You"? It isn't a major job at all. I'm not sure if your into grammar or if you are a good writer, but if so, I'd appreciate your help. Thanks :)-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   08:26, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Golden Globe
I nominated it here for you, and guess what, so far consensus is against it. --BorgQueen (talk) 19:53, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Can you help?
At WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request there's a request that seems to cry out for a Wikipedian with a subscription to the Daily Gleaner. Might you be able to help? LeadSongDog come howl!  06:21, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

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Beyonce
Yes I think it needs serious copy editing. Well I did try to keep it simple, but if DIL's album sales should be removed then go right ahead. It still should be mentioned that it debuted at number one, because its her debut, and also her third album because it makes it her third consecutive number one. Ozurbanmusic (talk) 06:32, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Adele
hey, thanks for the comment :) well i am (i think) the main contributor to her discography and things always crop up from ip's about unsourced, sales etc etc so i often hop over to the 21 page. usually it's removing unsourced and incorrect bits. but i'll have a looky and see where i could lend a hand, don't know if i'll be much use tho! Mister sparky (talk) 19:27, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Adele and 21
I've probably made about 20 or so edits to Adele-related articles, so I wouldn't consider myself a big editor of them; and I don't frequent FAC either. However, 21 looks like an excellent page to me (though I did a minor formatting change just now), so I'd recommend you nominate it. The work you've done has been great! Wonderful article. Acalamari 17:35, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much for looking it over, and thanks for the vote of confidence. It really means a lot. I'm gonna polish the prose a bit and head over to FAC by the end of the week. Oran e   (talk)  03:00, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

I read your message and I'd love to help. Is there anything you want me to look out for? Fixer23 (talk) 05:22, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * No biggie, I went ahead and did some edits that were not likely to be contested. The article is very substantial as is. Here are some suggestions that you can consider. I apologise beforehand in case some of the wording below appears rude, they're just some rough notes I took while reading the article through.

Cheers! Hope this is helpful. Fixer23 (talk) 07:16, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * On "uneventful meetups", were these meetups specifically for producing music, or just chance meetings around town. If so, it can probably be rephrased for clarity.
 * "Adele announced the other producers shortly after", after what? The Tedder sessions? I think it can be left as just a list like "Additional producers include Jim Abbiss, Fraser T Smith, Dan Wilson and Paul Epworth."
 * The "hip hop exposure" thing is unsourced and can easily be left as is without the additional "she was exposed to" part
 * Is there a significance in the sentence with Stone, Duffy and Winehouse. It's unsourced and most of the comparisons, at least that I know of, were done when she dropped her first album.
 * I also noted that the article jumps from past tense to present tense to past again pretty frequently, makes for a little confusing reading to me. I'd say go with past tense completely but some other editors prefer present tense. What I'm trying to say is stick with one :)
 * The WSJ quote doesn't add anything to the paragraph in Influence and sounds and "substance over style" is repeated two sentences later. I'd remove the earlier sentence completely. Also the anti-Gaga thing is repeated in the Impact section. My suggestion is to remove that phrase and keep the "full figured" quote since the Gaga comparison is done by another published source right above.
 * How does the title for Set Fire to the Rain suggest contradiction? Maybe I'm dense, but perhaps this can be expanded.
 * The phrase "lamenting vocals" seems awkward to me.
 * The fanbase sentence pertains more to the previous album. (first sentence of Marketing) No? I can see its relevance for the US paragraph, but even then it doesn't completely gel, how did he reconnect the viewers of SNL with Adele? Seems its not adressed.
 * The Single sections looks like it can be expanded. Maybe its because the other sections are all so meaty, but this section looks a little sparse. Perhaps some of the Rolling in the Deep from Song and lyrics can be transplanted here? Its paragraph does look a little bloated compared to the other tracks in the section.
 * UK or United Kingdom or U.K./US or United States or U.S., consistency is needed!
 * Some of the Impact section should be introduced into the Chart performance section, since the prose on chart performance (bar the UK) looks kind of sparse in my opinion. Some of the impact section would easily fit into chart performance. Perhaps the distinction can be made on chart and cultural impact.
 * List in the lead (i.e. producers, countries where the album hit number one) should be avoided I think, either we list all or none, since it raises the question of why some were omitted.
 * I noticed some information in the lead that is (i.e. record for the longest running consecutive number-one studio album (i.e. not a compilation or a soundtrack) for a solo artist in the U.K. and biggest-selling album download of all-time in the UK.) This is not acceptable according to WP:LEAD
 * On a side note, the number of weeks that Legend does not seem important enough to mention in the Lead.
 * Your welcome! Do note that these are merely suggestions and can be ignored if you disagree :) Fixer23 (talk) 08:27, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * About the Singles section. I think it was mainly when juxtaposed against everything else, it seemed a little on the "skinny" side. (I'll try to help) Fixer23 (talk) 23:47, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Scratch that, I think you've done an awesome job already. Glad I could be of help :) Keep up the good work. Fixer23 (talk) 23:52, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Um, I'll have to check again. I'm pretty sure there's something about not introducing brand new information to the lede. Or... I misread. I'll check the marketing section again. Fixer23 (talk) 22:21, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it's a definite improvement from the first version I read, but I moved the sentence on the BRIT awards being a major push to the start of the section, because as much as the BRIT awards affected the UK buying public, it probably registered as a mere blip in the US. Especially since (if I'm not mistaken), the album release in the US was a couple of weeks after the BRITS. Having said this, I don't exactly gleam what you described (not having to work as hard in the UK etc) from the prose, but it still conveys information that flows. That's kind of confusing. What I mean is that it is clear and informative but does not necessarily convey what you intended it to convey, since I don't get a sense that the UK promotion was any less comprehensive. I have a question though, the part about building a fanbase in the United States, is that for 19 or 21? Cuz I'm kind of baffled that they'd have to rebuild an entire fanbase after just two years. Fixer23 (talk) 22:42, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * On the lede, "Significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article, although this does not mean that everything in the lead must be repeated in the body of the text: specific facts will often appear only in the lead, such as quotations, examples, birthdates, and titles, depending on editorial judgment. This should not be taken to exclude information from the lead, but to include it in both the lead and body: in a well-constructed article, the emphasis given to material in the lead will be reflected in the rest of the text." I think I interpreted these sentences to be that the lede should not contain new/significant information. In this case, in my opinion, those two pieces of info would be kind of significant since they are records? Of course that's just one interpretation. Fixer23 (talk) 22:51, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

It's mainly your project. You can take as much time as you want. I'm merely lending a helping hand :) I'm rereading the whole Billboard article, and it seems to me that the concerns they had for selling Adele to the American public were before her first album, so I'm removing that and rewriting for it to make some sense to myself, feel free to revert if you disagree. I think now the prose does show that they were trying to attract the debut album fans, but maybe what we need is to establish that the album was a bona fide hit in the US (it was certified platinum)? I also removed the Twitter sentence since it does not establish that Twitter is used as a marketing tool by Columbia, the Billboard article as merely states that her company uses it to direct fans to her blog. Also, I found a quote from the Billboard article that kind of adresses the BRIT award thing "But no one cares about the BRIT Awards in the U.S.", he's not talking about what we were talking about, but it substantiates my point that the BRITs wouldn't affect the US. Fixer23 (talk) 04:02, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry i hadn't responded sooner to your message Orane (just logged in). I'm not well versed on what merits featured status, but purely from scanning other featured articles which have met the necessary criteria, i would say that your work on 21 would have a very strong claim. To Fixer, the Brit Award performance is very notable in sparking the initial surge (which yes was almost exclusively UK), but i have read a US reference on Adele's Brit Award performance, noting the lower number of youtube hits that Rihanna's performance had got in comparison.LisaSandford (talk) 11:03, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Set Fire to the Rain
You edit was incredibly harsh considering that: neither the song's article nor the album state that "Set Fire to the Rain" was released as a single yet I did add a reliable source (the Australian Recording Industry Association) which stated that "Turning Tables" is the album's third single. I understand that the article is an FA candidate so I should have formatted the reference, though I did not know this at the time and it does not warrant incorrect information being present in the article. I will re-do the revisions I made yesterday, this time with a formatted reference. In the mean time it would be pay dividends for you to actually add sources when something has been disputed rather than simply revert if with an edit summary that says "i could find a source if i wanted to", which tbh is not relevent because as a none involved editor I've disputed a claim made in the article thus other readers could do the same. I didn't expect a brash response from you since I have encountered you in the past and found you to be a respected and reasonable editor. &mdash;  Lil_ ℧ niquℇ № 1  [talk]  22:17, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
 * My comments were in no way meant to offend you, and I apologize for how blunt or harsh it was. I knew you were trying to improve the article, and my reaction was unnecessary. Yes, the ARIA announced that "Turning Tables" is a single; however, I don't know if its worldwide or just in Australia, since I have a few sources that claim "Set Fire to the Rain" as a single, like this one from Digital Spy, this one from New York Post, this one from Prefix Magazine, and this one from zimbio.com. I don't know how to reconcile this discrepancy. Oran e   (talk)  02:43, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Taking that into account it was incredibly unprofessional to remove sourced information. Considering ARIA (a chart organisation) has listed the song as a single I would consider "Turning Tables" as the third single. Until there is a date of release confirmed for "Set Fire to the Rain" I wouldn't add it though it could be the album's third single in most other territories. Even if that was the case both singles would need to be listed as even a release in one country counts as a single release. Criticially the date of February 25, 2011 for SFTTR seems to be plucked out of thin air... a quick search of ten retailers fails to yield that date and it has not been playlisted on any radio stations. &mdash;  Lil_ ℧ niquℇ № 1  [talk]  13:01, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

21
Good work on developing this album, but Orane, the chart section and formatting is really a mess. I think you weren't around enough while the new formats, rules etc were developed. If you want me to take a look, I can but good luck with the FAC anyways. — Legolas ( talk 2 me ) 13:53, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * How exactly is it a mess, though? Oran e   (talk)  04:44, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Beyonce
Hey, i did not know you were such a big fan or maybe you told me and i forgot. Lol. By the way, i love Beyonce a lot. You are right. I think she has already become a legend. I applause her for experimenting new genres. Jivesh   &bull;  Talk2Me  05:09, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I am, without a doubt, her biggest fan. Since Destiny's Child days. lol. Can't wait for this new album to come out. She has one thing that I doubt others (and by others I mean Lady G) will have: longevity. Her and Adele are my top two singers. Oran e   (talk)  05:15, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry for late reply. I thought you would reply on my talk-page. And yes, you talk a lot like me. Wow, i keep saying to others that Beyonce knows how to build momentum. and she has one more thing you did not mention. she is an amazing live performer. Jivesh    &bull;  Talk2Me  05:24, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't want to compare her to MJ, but i think she is the closest that this generation will come to him. She is phenomenal live. That presence. That voice (which I still think is underestimated). I'm embarrassed to say this, but my itouch is packed with videos of her live performances that I converted to mp4 off of YouTube lol. Even her "Time to Move" promo video lol. Oran e   (talk)  05:34, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * What's you absolute fav song from her: top 3, if u can narrow it. Oran e   (talk)  05:34, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm also a PCD fan, and Xtina :) Oran e   (talk)  05:36, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I love Christian a Aguilera. I love Nicole Scherzinger as well. They are so pretty but i know they wear a lot of make-up. Beyonce is really close to MJ. Remember the "Single Ladies" video. All those parodies. It feels a bit like "Thriller". My favorites are:


 * 1) Sweet Dreams
 * 2) Halo
 * 3) Ring the Alarm
 * 4) Freakum Dress
 * 5) Crazy in Love
 * 6) End of Time
 * 7) Run the World
 * 8) Irreplaceable
 * 9) Upgrade U
 * 10) Single Ladies
 * 11) Naughty Girl
 * 12) Baby Boy
 * 13) Why Don't You Love Me
 * 14) Check on It
 * 15) If I Were a Boy
 * 16) Get Me Bodied
 * 17) Welcome to Hollywood
 * 18) Diva
 * 19) Video Phone
 * 20) Listen
 * 21) Broken-Hearted Girl
 * 22) Me Myself and I
 * 23) Beautiful Liar
 * 24) Deja Vu
 * 25) Kitty Kat
 * 26) Green Light
 * Ego

Jivesh   &bull;  Talk2Me  05:43, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Lol, so I guess you couldnt narrow it down :P. I love most of those. According to my ipod playlist, my top fav Beyonce songs are:


 * 1) "Get Me Bodied (Live: I Am...World Tour)"
 * 2) "Run the World"
 * 3) "Upgrade You"
 * 4) "Sweet Dreams/Dangerously In Love/Sweet Love (Medley)"
 * 5) "Freakum Dress (Live: Beyonce Experience)"
 * 6) "Me. Myself and I"
 * 7) "Dangerously in Love (Live in Atlanta)" (converted to mp3 from Youtube :P), and
 * 8) "Hello (Live)".
 * And I'm not too much a Nicole Scherzinger fan, since she broke up the group with her diva ways. My fav in PCD were Melody and Jessica. Oran e   (talk)  05:57, 27 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Ah okay. so you really like her live performances. Lol. Do you want to have a nice laugh, see this Jivesh    &bull;  Talk2Me  06:09, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * LMAO, sooo funny hahah. I think I lost it when he went down on all fours. I tell you, B has some crazy fans. I knew people were going to parody the video lol. When's yours coming out lol. Oran e   (talk)  06:16, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh no, i will never do that. Maybe because i am a boy and i do not find myself imitating B. It's hilarious. I have to go now, i felt very nice talking to you. I have to go to tuition. See you. Take care. Before i go: Do you like "Why Don't you love Me? Was it a single? I feel it was for promo. Jivesh    &bull;  Talk2Me  06:22, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Was nice talking to you too. Yeah, I love "Why Don't You Love Me". I think it was also for promo, but I loved the video, esp the part where she dusted her Grammys on the mantle. lol So hilarious. Oran e   (talk)  06:24, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I strongly feel the same way but some people are bound to make it a single here on Wikipedia. Bye, i have to go now. I asked you that question because i know you know a lot about Beyonce. Thanks. See you. Jivesh    &bull;  Talk2Me  06:29, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Amazon and Born This Way
Well then, my absolute apologies. I'm not here to cause trouble and, I admit, I was under the impression that the 440,000 were Amazon's total sales. If that is indeed how many digital albums sold at 99 cents, then by all means let it be written. RM-47 (talk) 12:13, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Hey there :)
Hi Orane. Yes, I now see your point completely. Thing is, we all honestly got a bit confused and overwhelmed, just my the sheer amount of sources and page edits and conflicts. And for the FA, no problem! I actually think you did a great job, and didn't think it deserved the carping it did. I myself have tried to get a few MC articles to FA around 4-5 times and failed :( and I know the feeling when people come and slap an oppose and a generic reason, so I definitely wanted to support you there! Anyways, welcome back and looking forward to more great work from you! :D-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   20:17, 3 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Haha yes, they can make things quite crazy here. Ah, I feel you on that one. I did summer courses last year and they were tough, I'm never doing them again lol. I just finished my last final yesterday. I am now about 70% to my bachelor's degree :D. Ah, I didn't know you worked on Mariah articles in the past? Yes "We Belong Together" was the first GA of her work, and now she has around 30 :). I am working hard to transform her entire discography into GA. I did the FLs and just finished The Emancipation of Mimi. I hope to nominate this one for FA, after it passes GA and PR. I will keep going until I get at least one lol :).-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   22:36, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Beyonce 4
Orane as you must already know i am a boy. I rarely cry. Maybe once in 5 years. Lol. But for the first time in my life, i have know what is a song that touches your soul. I listen to "I Miss You" and i cried inevitably. It is such a heartfelt song. Beyonce is the best. Jivesh   &bull;  Talk2Me  08:00, 9 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I think "I Was Here" is the best song from 4. It is sadly the only one from the album that I truly love. Very nice ballad indeed.-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   08:08, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * So I take it you've heard it in full? Lucky you lol. Before this, I've always said that I don't consider B a balladeer. To me, she just didn't have the voice for it. But man is she proving me wrong. She hits some high-octave notes, reminiscent of a young Whitney, esp on "Love on Top". Oran e   (talk)  08:11, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Well i will not say i hate "I Was Here" but i do not have much of a liking for it. Too flat. I really love "I Miss You". Beyonce should release it in December 2011. I also like "I Care", "Countdown", "Love on Top" and "Party" is so appealing. All songs are good but they need to be listened to at least twice before they grow on you but "I Miss You" just hits you instantaneously. Jivesh    &bull;  Talk2Me  08:17, 9 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Guys i have to go. If you are all still here in six hours or even more, we will continue this discussion. This is the best album Miss B has offered. Jivesh    &bull;  Talk2Me  08:18, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * six hrs from now, I'll be asleep hahah. But we'll finish it soon. And yaasss, Beyonce is finally releasing a great album (God knows I only like about 3 0r 4 from Sasha). Oran e   (talk)  08:20, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yup, I've heard the whole album in full. Sadly, I don't like it much, but a few songs are tolerable. I'll give "I Miss You" another try tomorrow. Yes, Beyonce does not have a balladeer voice, I still say that. She has a very soft and pretty voice, but its limited and bland, and her lower register is dull and forced. I appreciate her attempts, but they don't ever knock my socks off. BTW Jivesh, not at all my friend, its a weak effort.-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   08:21, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

"Weak effort"??? And a full-out diss on Beyonce's voice :S Jivesh, we have a hater in our midst!! Round-up the stans with their torches and pitchforks! lol. jokes.

I do think her voice is "pretty". And to be honest, since B'Day when Jennifer Hudson showed her up, she's been taking a lot of vocal risks. Sometimes I think she pushes her voice a bit on some songs, but I do consider her in my top 5 vocalists of today (random order): Adele, Charice, Kelly Clarkson, Beyonce, J-Hudson. Oh, and Christina, when she's not struggling. Oran e  (talk)  08:28, 9 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Are you here? Jivesh    &bull;  Talk2Me  05:20, 10 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Do you live in the US? How excited are people about the album? Jivesh    &bull;  Talk2Me  05:30, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Haha Oh Orane, I feel like there is so much to talk to you about! I love Bey, but I'm honest about her strengths, and her voice isn't it. Its her fierce style and productions, and innovative dancing and trending. Yes, I remember when Jennifer stomped her at the 2007 Oscars lol. I was so pissed, I hated (and still dislike) J. Hud. Adele definitely is over-rated. Her voice is very basic (Bey's is better IMO) and her songs are often boring and lacking in style. I do love "RITD" and "SLY" though (even though she never sings the chorus properly live!). For me, the top three vocalists will always remain Mariah, then Whitney and last Celine. Who are yours? I hate X-Tina though, she shouts doesn't sing properly. Did you notice how her voice has deteriorated!? She's having a 1997-98 MC era! She totally lost her voice, all she does is grunt and shout now! And Jivesh, I do, and the answer is no one :S I've heard "RTW" once on the radio, and never the others. None of my friends even know she has an album coming out.-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   05:32, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Where can i listen to it? Jivesh    &bull;  Talk2Me  05:34, 10 June 2011 (UTC)


 * That's not very nice. Is he younger than you? Does he like Beyonce at least a little? Jivesh    &bull;  Talk2Me  05:38, 10 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Nathan, please tell me more about this Jennifer and B episode? Jivesh    &bull;  Talk2Me  05:39, 10 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Actually it is because she is not promoting the album. she has not even yet appeared on a television show to talk about it. I think the song "I Was Here" tells everything. She has reached stage where she will let things build up on their own.  Jivesh    &bull;  Talk2Me  05:42, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * (3 edit conflicts) Nathan, I would say my absolute favorite singer is Mariah Carey. My mom grew I grew up listening to Celine because she is my mom's fav singer, and she was my favourite for a while. But then I remember one Christmas i was watching BET, and MC's "O Holy Night" came on. And during the final chorus, I remember wondering why she put the song in such a high key. But when she flipped in the whistle register, I was converted to a lamb. hahaha. Fav song by her though is "Forever", "H.A.T.E.U" and "I Still Believe", and everything on "Butterfly" except the screechy interludes. lol. And yes, Xtina's voice is gone, gone gone. Her entire middle range is completely gone, she has no color to her tone; it's become dark and strained. And Adele is overrated?! You're just saying that to anger me lol. Oran e   (talk)  05:42, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

I hate that she isn't promoting the album. But maybe she's waiting until the last 2 weeks. Can't over-saturate the market. Oran e  (talk)  05:44, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Guys, critics form everywhere are telling that this album shows maturity and that Beyonce is growing in the music industry along with her age. You cannot expect her to still sing lines like:

Soon as you saw me, turned on by how the dress was fitting right Short and backless (backless, backless) See my silhouette in the moonlight Such an attraction, keep telling me how my outfit's so nice Little did he know, Ha my man gonna take it off tonight When you put it on it's an invitation, when they play your song get on up and shake it, Work it out your back you don't have to waste it, Spin it all around then take it to the ground Ladies look at here, when you been with your man for a long time (oh) Every now and then you gotta go in the back of that closet and pull out that freakum dress (oh) uh!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jivesh   &bull;  Talk2Me  05:48, 10 June 2011 (UTC)


 * However, if i have to tell the truth, i will still love to see Beyonce doing her bad girl like in "why Don't You love Me". Jivesh    &bull;  Talk2Me  05:51, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzi4xnPd02c Amazing :) Lip synced lol, but amazing. Oran e   (talk)  05:53, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * No it is not lip-synched. Beyonce does not do that. The parts she was not singing, she left for the MaMas but did not lip-synched. Jivesh    &bull;  Talk2Me  05:55, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah... we could have an entire debate about that. We'll just agree to disagree on that one. But yeah, B lip syncs the hell out of some of her songs lol. Oran e   (talk)  05:58, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * May be in concerts but not on televised shows. How much do you think 4 might sell first week? 120,000 copies have already been pre-ordered in the US. Jivesh    &bull;  Talk2Me  06:00, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

I'd say 4 will sell between 400,000-500,000 copies in the first week. And unlike Lady Gargoyle, it will be a steady seller :) (Listening to "Love on Top" right now!). Oran e   (talk)  06:04, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I have just listened to "Start Over" and guess what. It's so good even better than "Love on Top". (In my opinion, actually i love ballads). Have to go. Take care. See you soon. Jivesh    &bull;  Talk2Me  06:09, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Take care, buddy. Talk to u soon. Oran e   (talk)  06:12, 10 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Haha, Orane, guess what!? She's my favorite singer too :D You want to join the WikiProject Mariah Carey? :) I can't believe "HATEU" ranks among your favorites! It was my biggest disappointment (after hearing the low quality snippet which I loved). The production is just aweful! My favorites are "Through the Rain"," Whenever You Call", "One Sweet Day", "ATYNAF", "Butterfly", "Everything Fades Away" is wonderful, basically her whole catalog lol. Do you like Whitney? Yes! I thought I was the only person to notice Christina having completely lost her voice! Well, I really tell you I don't think Adele's voice is anything special :S Lol, Jivesh, I don't mean to make you scared, but it will sell no where near 500K in its first week. Sasha sold 480K with the heavy success of the singles. Now, with the music industry having further decreased since 2008, I estimate 220K if shes lucky! You'll see :S-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   07:15, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * We seem to have a lot in common regarding who we like. Whitney has always been one of my favs too. During her vocal peak, no one could touch her (yes, including Mariah!). Just listen to this. I love her live performances the best, because she really knows how to milk every last note out of a song (that flourish at 3:45. Hmmm.). I'm more a fan of classic Whitney, up to and including Preacher's Wife Soundtrack. After that, her vocal change just got to me.
 * To be honest, I have weird taste in music. I'm a bit of a romantic, and sometimes I can love something because I have an emotional connection to it, despite it being technically sub-par. "H.A.T.E.U" is probably one of these. It was released around the time of my worst break-up (I know: TMI), and the song brought me through a lot. And it's been a favorite of mine ever since. Emancipation of Mimi is my all-time favorite album, with "Stay the Night" being the best track. But I don't like "Through the Rain"- I like only the climax. I was never a fan of her breathy vocals, and esp on the second chorus where she sang the last word of every line in falsetto (listen to it!), it just annoyed the hell out of me.
 * And I'll tell you why Adele is such an amazing singer. There are those technically proficient singers who give me goosebumps with how high they can sing, or how strong their voice is. But in cases like these, I'm not in awe of the song, I'm in awe of the notes the singer hits. For Adele, when she sings, you don't hear the high notes- you hear the pain and conviction in every word she sings. That's the difference between having a good voice, and being a good singer. Adele is the latter. Adele+Amy Winehouse= greatness.
 * I'd join the Wikiproject, but to be honest, I'm not on here often, though I can def help out. Her main page went up to FA status with a lot of input from yours truly :) And I know the writer of the article personally. Oran e   (talk)  08:00, 10 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Haha, well if The Emancipation of Mimi is your favorite album, then you should be at my feet as we speak :P (a lot of hard work hehe). Don't worry, I'll be satisfied if you one day comment on its PR :) Well, I wouldn't go that far. I agree Whitney's got a stronger tone, and in her peak was very consistent vocally, but Mariah has the whole package (range, agility, versatility, etc.) so Mimi is the superior vocalist IMO. Idk, her voice just touches me more than Whitney could ever. Plus, I still can love MCs voice (MCIIY great!) and can't bare to here Whitney's current voice (girl let herself go down the tubes!). And Celine, though almost always nasal, cracking, going far beyond her natural range, is a hell of a good singer, and I love those bottle cracking, throat-pushing, screaming at times, long notes she does ala-All By Myself. I agree about Adele, her voice is very raw and controlled. She has good vocal control, but it always pisses me off that she never sang SLY properly! (the chorus) did you notice that? Yeah, sometimes the way Mimi goes up and low so often gets irritating lol. I'm like "just belt it girl!" lol :)-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   08:21, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * SLY is the best song I have heard in a while on pop radio TBH. Those lyrics, those notes, that chorus, uff everything about it appeals to me and I can clearly see from where Adele sang it and the pain she felt from the break up. It does a faaaaaaaaaaaar superior job than RITD I feel. PS Emancipation is my favorite Mimi album. — Legolas ( talk 2 me ) 08:25, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * True that! SLY is a very heartfelt (emphasis here) ballad. Very beautiful. And Legolas, her 90s work will always be superior IMO, but it is one of my favs.-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   08:28, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * What is SLY? Jivesh    &bull;  Talk2Me  08:30, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Adele's "Someone Like You". And, I noticed you asked before. J-Hud basically tried to over-sing over Bey at the Oscars. It was kind of obvious that they were rivaling, mainly J-hud trying to show off.-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   08:35, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I always get a bewildered look when I say this, but I prefer mature Mariah to the old Mariah. Despite her vocal deterioration in the late 90s (after peaking on Daydream (again, "Forever" is her best vocal performance ever! listen to how she goes in and out of falsetto, every note connected to the next etc)), for me she peaked again vocally on Glitter. "Never Too Far" and "Lead the Way" are amazing vocal performances. But then it just went downhill for Charmbracelet. And yes, I love the TEOM article. Congrats :D. And Mariah beats Whitney today, by far. I've always thought of Whitney as the stronger performer, as Mariah sometimes looked uncomfortable on stage, even to this day. Whitney had more charisma, and her live voice was always unpredictably nuanced. And Celine is the queen lol. Falling into You is the bomb. Oran e   (talk)  08:46, 10 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Hehe :) Yes I agree, Whitney always knows how to command that stage, her inner diva is very strong lol. Nah, Glitter has good vocals, but her voice was no where near as good as in the 90s. Orane, her voice in 95-96 was extra girly, nasal and less powerful than before, I don't see how "Forever" makes your list!. 91-92 were the best vocal years, just such power! Watch "If Its Over" on SNL and the Grammys (Wow!). Lol, I love "FIY", such a nice one! Its the "Thriller" for elevators and dentists offices around the world lol.-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   08:52, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Hahah, yes,I always used to get into it with other fans who say that she peaked in 91-92. I just can't see how she's gonna peak at the start of her career. I've always been a fan of singers with a different tone to their voice. Around 94 is when she developed a slight huskiness to her voice that I just loved hearing. And this rawness developed, and I think we hear this grittiness and rawness fully on "Can't take That Away from Me". To me, in 1990, her voice was thinner, girlier, and plainer, although yes, with slightly more power. But overall, "Heartbreaker" "Whenever You Call", "Outside", heck, even "Butterfly" and especially "My All" and "Can't Take That Away" give me a more satisfying vocal than anything from her first 3 albums, except AYNAF, where her G#5 notes just had be twitching all over hahha. Oran e   (talk)  09:02, 10 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Lol, true! 1990 was not a great vocal year for her, but I think 1993 is also very good, although I find 1994 a very bad one for her :S, but the worst is late 1999-00, just complete deterioration! Very sad to watch her sing during those years. But 2008 was even worse, the AOM tour totally drained her voice. Maybe also the weight loss, but she could barely sing TMB properly live! Now she's regained a lot back, and I'm hoping the rest she got during her pregnancy helped even more :) I have a whole map of her voice and how it sounded during each year. As for Whitney, her prime is also at her start, around 85-88. And Celine, her prime was 1993-94, then in 98 she totally lost her chest voice. Ever hear the evolution in her voice? just wacth the years go by on TPOL (before the lipping started lol).-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   09:08, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I've gotta run :) We can talk more later. I've also got a few list/clips of what I consider "perfect vocal performances" that I'd love to hear your thoughts on. That's for next time. See u later. Oran e   (talk)  09:18, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds good my friend! I'm a huge fan, but also a huge critic :) Looking forward to it. Take care!-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   09:22, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Kurt Hummel
Hey there. User:Frickative and I have put some work into fixing Kurt Hummel's references. Do you think it looks better now? HorrorFan121 (talk) 21:22, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Not sure if you have the FAC on your watchlist or not, but I left you a message there. ;) HorrorFan121 (talk) 23:23, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Amazon and Lady Gaga
It's a fact that 430,000 copies were sold at the promotional price, and you were right to put the number back in. But we can't say that the promotional price accounted for these sales, because we don't know how many of these sales were caused by the promotional price, and how many would have happened at full price. A reliable source could perhaps make some kind of estimate of this, but I haven't seen one that does.VoluntarySlave (talk) 17:00, 17 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't understand the issue. Those sales are due to the special sale. It does not matter the wording or anything, that is a fact.-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   17:02, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Your emphasis on semantic specification just doesn't make sense to me. I just can't grasp it. The original statement doesn't claim to know how much would have been sold had album been offered at the regular price. But it's a fact that 40% of its total is attributed to the 99cent sale. Your wording in the article is just a more awkward way of stating this very fact. Oran e   (talk)  18:31, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Featured article candidates/Everything That Happens Will Happen Today/archive3
Please review I took a look at your suggestion about publishers and I've filled in that field on every reference--what am I missing here? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 03:30, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBEYONCE
Oh no. I was not aware of that. It's great news. We are so similar. I have been doing the same thing. Really. Jivesh   &bull;  Talk2Me  09:54, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

RE: Beyonce's 4
With respect to my revision:
 * "Generally positive critical" seems more complicated and sounds like three adjectives.
 * 4 "received positive reviews from most music critics" seems simpler and more concise, as it mentions from who they were "received" rather than the assumption of critics b/c their described as "critical". Also, "most" is more appropriate to use than "generally", considering their definitions,, . I don't understand how it's grammatically "akward" or what you meant by "individually positive reviews". Most critics gave the album a positive reviews.
 * As you pointed out, critics found the album a progression from her previous albums, but writing "the album's progressive musical direction" would not express it as accurately as "found its musical direction progressive from her previous albums". Something like that, so it doesn't sound like the article lead is making a judgement on the album's direction. "Understated" works fine.
 * What I meant by "who" vs. "most of which" wasn't which was grammatically correct or not, but which subject to use, "critic" or "review", as in the second point. It would make more sense to mention the critic, a person, criticizing or complimenting something, rather than the review, which is what the critic did that through.
 * As for your addition of reviews, I considered the notability of the review source and making an accurate representation in the review template.

As for favorite singers, I wouldn't consider Beyonce one of them. I'd consider Al Green, Stevie Wonder, D'Angelo, Tony Toni Tone, Prince, Marvin Gaye, Erykah Badu, James Brown, Bilal, R. Kelly, Teddy Pendergrass, as my favorite singers. Dan56 (talk) 18:17, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:Mugshot.jpg
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Mugshot.jpg, has been listed at Possibly unfree files because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the file's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the file description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Eeekster (talk) 01:14, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

21
You seem active in editing 21. You love the album, don't you? How are you Orane? --Efe (talk) 05:02, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes I am. Not "full time". Just hangin' around when I have free time. Mostly weekends. Good luck buddy. --Efe (talk) 05:10, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Of course I do. I bought the deluxe edition last July 4. Her best, so far. I can't stop listening to the songs. --Efe (talk) 05:17, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

The Emancipation of Mimi
Hi Orane :) Hope you are doing well since we last spoke! So TEOM is now GA (I know, proud moment for both of us :D) and I believe, complete. I've nominated it for a peer review before I take it to the gruesome FAC, so please if you can, come and make as many constructive mentions to better the article as possible. Thanks so much anyway! :)-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   23:52, 18 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry for the late reply! I was in the middle of going through every reference, so I just finished. Thanks a lot for all your comments, I will comment back on that page once I have addressed both of your concerns. Thanks again Orane! :)-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   10:58, 19 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Haha, you are awesome like that :) Thanks again for all the help! :D BTW, what do you mean by "locations"? I'm not sure I know about that parameter. As for the dates, is it necessary they be spelled out? Or just a question of taste? The others I'll get to now!-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   01:59, 20 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Lol, no not at all! :) If those are the rules then I'll change them. Thanks for all the tips! I think I got everything on the list, except the locations. See anything else? :D Good night my friend!-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   07:11, 20 July 2011 (UTC)


 * The samples I'm getting to :P and the credits...OH! haha, I didn't realize there were more people listed there on the bottom that weren't in the body. Will do! :)-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   03:12, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

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21 (Adele album)
I'd like to know why did you protected that page. Vandalism at time of protection was none, nor even enough to justify its indefinite semi-protection, not even for a few days. I'm making a formal request to you for unprotect it and do not do it again. We do not need another Yellowmonkey. Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions.  04:27, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * No, I'm not your boss, but Stewards and Bureaucrats are, somehow, your bosses, and using your tools in your benefit will lead you to lost them. Tb hotch .™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it!  See terms and conditions.  08:07, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The tools were not being used to my benefit&mdash; they were being used to the article's. The internet backlash against the singer made the news. And I've already stated that in hindsight, I may have been hasty in semi-protecting it. Either way, I'm not about to argue with you. Protection removed. Is there anything else I can do for you? Oran e   (talk)  08:12, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

21 (Adele album)
I've posted some comments to the article's talk page. I looked at the lead only and considered it as if it were at FAC. I've left some detailed comments and some explanation of my thinking. I hope it doesn't seem too harsh, but I've been quite fussy about the prose, which I assume is what you wanted. I would suggest, before considering putting it at FAC again, trying to go for GA status, where the prose demands are much less; if the lead is representative of the whole article, I cannot see there being prose objections for GA status. I would also suggest, after this, putting it up at PR, where there are some outstanding reviewers. The more eyes the article has before attempting to go for FA, the better. I hope this helps, and all the best. --Sarastro1 (talk) 14:26, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

RE: 21
Thanks for clearing that up with your post and the edit summary. Also, I suppose the "generally [...] reviews from music critics" expression would be more appropriate. Dan56 (talk) 19:53, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Mimi
Hi Orane! Hi you doin? :) So I'm finishing up the PR, and have few issues left. Can you do me a small favor? I seem to be having trouble delivering the first two paragraphs of the lead, or all of it lol, in terms of the music and production and making it flow. Since you are familiar with the material, can you try and tweak the lead, mostly the first two paras? Thanks alot! :D-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   17:15, 2 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Sure, take your time :) All I need is the Lead to be perfect, mostly the first to paras. Shouldn't be too much work :D-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   08:48, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Discussion
Hello :), please help reach consensus by weighing in your opinion here. Thanks!-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   11:58, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Adele
Orane! Has Adele lost her voice already so early in her career? :( Everything wet downhill.-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   03:57, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Her voice is a litte raw. She's currently on tour, and just needed some vocal rest. She was diagnosed with laryngitis a few months ago due to overworking her voice, did a month vocal rest and continued her tour. She didn't sound as bad as you imply, but I could tell she was a bit off. Oran e   (talk)  04:10, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * But I'm a bit pissed right now, because she should have won Video of the Year. She won the most awards for the night:4. But Video of the Year was supposed to be her's damn it!!
 * Yeah, I read that she had laryngitis for a while, and had to take on a new singing technique. I don't know Orane, when I compare this and the performances at the Tabernacle, these worry me :( And no way, Adele might be a great singer and beautiful (but heavy), but she doesn't have "Video of the Year". I think Perry's was a great video and I'm glad she won :)-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   15:37, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Lol @ "Beautiful (but heavy)". Didn't know these were mutually exclusive qualities.
 * On a serious note though, Perry only won "Video of the Year" because she had a legion of teeny-boppers voting for her. And she clearly doesn't deserve it. At all. Adele's target audience/fans (middle-aged moms) don't really care about MTV awards, or just don't know how to vote. But there is a reason that Adele won all of the technical categories-- the ones that are voted on by the MTV panel: it's because her video was 10x better than all of them. If you want me to critically analyze it to show why it's so good, I will :) Oran e   (talk)  23:39, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Lol. Well Orane, she is beautiful, but yes the weight does take away from it IMO. As for the audience, true again, but I know that most of the younger audiences can learn to appreciate some of her better material. Thing is, remember that the awards are because of the video,not the song. All Adele did for "RITD" was sit in a chair. While the filming and costume etc was really nice, a video like Perry's, that involves a positive message and hundreds of teens in Turkey, should really come out on top there. Of course, when it comes to the Grammys, I'm sure Adele will sweep, and Perry will come home empty handed or win one win.-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   06:12, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, I completely disagree that you, and I think that both thin and people with fuller figure can be equally beautiful. But I digress. And yes, the video is a million times better than Katy Perry's and Gaga's. I honestly think that you're operating under the assumption that bigger is better, and Adele has always been about substance over style and less is more. "Rolling in the Deep" is simply golden. I study English Literature, so the many references and symbols were clear to me after a couple views. If you listen to the lyrics, and watch the video, the number of symbols and understated imagery that the video gives is simply breathtaking. A few obvious examples: you state that the fact that she sits on a chair works to the video's disadvantage. But I don't think a more appropriate video concept could have been achieved here. The song is about Adele's lover leaving her, and she laments how they could have had it all etc etc etc. The video shows her sitting all by herself in a dimly lit room in a large, broken-down, old house-- this signifies loneliness, desertion and abandonment. Her sitting down symbolizes hopelessness and despair (her movement is intentionally confined; there's nothing she can do about the situation; she's given up). The abandoned house and dilapidated furniture symbolize things that could have been; broken dreams (house usually symbolizes "a home" etc). We see dishes breaking-- this symbolizes anger, rage (stereotypically, women throw/break dishes when they're furious-- Rihanna even has a song about it lol called "Breaking Dishes"), but the number of dishes symbolize the serious, almost apocalyptic nature of her situation (an idea that is strengthened with the burning city at the video climax). Water symbolizes calmness and tranquility. In an interview, she said the beat of the drum in the song symbolized her racing heartbeat. As the drum beats in the video, the water (which represents her initial calmness) begins to jerk and ripple with the rhythm of the drum, suggesting increased agitation, emotional disturbances (which match the lyrics as she sings about a fire burning in her heart, reaching a fever pitch etc...) And I could go on and on and on. Dude, someone doesn't have to shoot fireworks out of their tits, or have intergalactic birth and flashy production values to be a good video. Adele gave us a glorious piece of work, something that can be analyzed and examined from a number of perspectives. And it's sad that people can't even pick up on these ideas and appreciate them. All they want is dancing and flashy moves and explosions. It's just sad. Adele gave high art, Perry gave a lyrical interpretation of a metaphor, which is just plain stupid. Oran e   (talk)  07:58, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Wow. Haha, hear me out. Some people don't mind over-wight people, I've always likes a more fit figure. However, she is certainly beautiful. Now as for the video, I too have studied literature, and have learned to take small details and apply them to the message; don't think you're talking to a dumb-ass here :P Of course the video is great etc. But, at the end of the day, Perry's video (as well as Gaga's) recquired a lot more work than Adele's, and had more of a story. Of course Adele made a story with imagery and scenery etc, but to win "Video of the Year" I think Perry really deserved it. I guess we disagree here my friend :) I just really hope Adele can restore her voice to how it was back in January.-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   21:58, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * My sincere apologies. I get really sensitive about Adele. It's the same way many lamds defend Mariah. I mean you no harm. So let's agree to disagree :) Oran e   (talk)  07:50, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

21 FAC
So when are you taking it for a second round. Frankly this article is so ready for the bronze star. — Legolas ( talk 2 me ) 12:04, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi bud. It's been a while :). The article has come a long way, but to be completely honest, I think it's only about 70% ready. The prose is still rough in places, and a lot of info, especially in the chart performance section, needs to be sourced. Also, I'm looking to tweak/rearrange the "cultural impact" section etc. But, most importantly, I'm waiting a bit until the album's chart run has declined (it's still in the top 3 in the US, and 20+ weeks at #1 in a couple European countries). The album and its singles are still breaking records every week (yay), so information changes weekly. After a few months, I can actually write in a summary style and provide a comprehensive overview of the album and its performance/reception. Oran e   (talk)  03:43, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Calvin999
You remember the above editor and the discussion we had about his attitude and cribbing. Well I had to do this. Frankly, I'm tired of seeing this one just do crib, throw tantrums like a baby and basically be a dick. The user doesn't want to learn, why should I waste my time even teaching right? — <i style="color:blue;">Legolas</i> ( talk 2 me ) 12:35, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree that he seems to have a snarky attitude. I'm not entirely sure why this is. Maybe he is just overly sensitive about his work, and gets defensive when people critique it. But that's no excuse. And maybe he is not aware that his messages come across like that. He really needs to check his attitude. With that said, I'm not sure I completely agree with some of your choice of words when dealing with the editor. Saying "frankly, you are a poor editor" is a bit harsh. It's best to say he has made some questionable/poor editing choices. I completely understand why you would day this--the editor's petulance and sense of entitlement make him frustrating to work with. But be careful not to aggravate/insult him. Oran e   (talk)  22:46, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I know Orane, it was bad to tell that. I never tell any1 is a bad editor since everyone is growing and learning including me, but this one was just too much. Everywhere I see—FAC FLC GAN GAR—this one is just cribbing, cribbing and cribbing. Oh well, this was a learning experience for me too you can say. Not to help people who don't deserve it is all I can say. — <i style="color:blue;">Legolas</i> ( talk 2 me ) 15:15, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I fully understand what you mean. And I know you're not a mean or disrespectful person. I may have a word with the editor, just to try and talk with him and see what's up with him. By the way, I'm sorry I haven't had enough time to devote to Wikipedia. I'm just really busy in real life can I'm only able to come on here at night for a few minutes. Oran e   (talk)  14:40, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Someone Like You
Hello Orane. I really love Adele and I was working on "Someone Like You". I wanted to ask you have you bought 21? If you have, can you please tell me where the song was recorded and add a credits and personnel section to the article? My love is love (talk) 16:43, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Journalist is quite irregular. But you better wait for him. I bet he must be having a copy. He will be very happy to see what you have done. He is the greatest fan of Adele (at least for me). ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 19:18, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I actually don't have a physical copy, but now feel the need to go buy one. I usually get all my music via ForstWire or the internet. But I personally paid for 21 and 4. My love is love, I slapped the info on the talk page. Sorry, i didn't have time to fix it, and cite it. I was in a rush. And love what you've done with the article. Oran e   (talk)  23:21, 29 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Journalist, do you know someone on Wikipedia who has a physical copy? ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 04:12, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
 * To clarify, I own a digital copy of the album, bought through iTunes. No, I don't know of anyone on WP with a physical copy. But I do know people in real life. Oran e   (talk)  04:17, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry for late reply. I never thought you would reply so quickly. Okay, it does not matter my friend. Do you want to have a lokk at how Adele is right now? ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 04:36, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I like how you handled the situation above. You have a very good sense of maturity. You are FAIR. (This is very rare on Wikipedia) And i respect you a lot for this. ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 07:16, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Aww, thank you. That brought a smile to my face haha. I just believe that you have to show respect to earn respect. btw, didn't quite understand your last message about Adele. Were you asking me about the singer or the article? If it's about the singer, then I still love her. Even more so now. The article is good too, although it could use some beefing up in the "artistry" section. Oran e   (talk)  14:45, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
 * You are most welcome. It came directly from my heart. I sincerely see a very kind and patient in you, unlike how others are here. Sorry. I wanted to write *look*? Do you want to see how Adele is looking right now? ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 15:22, 1 October 2011 (UTC)


 * See.

Reasons:
 * SLY is slaying iTunes.
 * Its video is slaying the critical reviews
 * It is slaying US pop radio.
 * Overall, it is increasing by at least 3 million AI daily
 * It is coming for Maroon5 and Xtina wigs.

★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 16:39, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

OMG, that image is probably the funniest thing I've ever seen lmao. But yeah, Slaydele is snatching everyone's wigs right now. I have no doubt that "SLY" will go to number one on the charts next week or the week after, since "Moves Like Jagger" is now at #2 on iTunes, and "SIL" is #1, and "SIL" is moving up on the Airplay chart. Damn, this girl is amazing. Didn't remember that you were this big of a fan. Oran e  (talk)  06:21, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
 * No in fact i am a fan of Adele but i am the biggest fan of this girl. How about this one? ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 10:20, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
 * When you need something to cheer you up, you are most welcome. ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 10:22, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Peer review/FutureSex/LoveSounds/archive2
Hi Orane. I don't know if Timberlake's music interest you. But I am wondering if you could chip in the PR? Or do some prose fixes? Thanks. --Efe (talk) 14:30, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't call myself a fan, but I did buy this album.T'was pretty good. I read through most of the article, and will be able to comment on it/edit it later on Friday afternoon, since I have an early start in the morning. Oran e   (talk)  07:04, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Left replies at the PR page. Thanks Orane. --Efe (talk) 15:44, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you mad at me? --Efe (talk) 03:05, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Not at all. I just refuse to have anything to do with the article. But we're still cool :) Oran e   (talk)  06:01, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I was just taken aback by your giving me an example that's not even an example at all by FA standards (no insult to whoever is the writer). --Efe (talk) 10:54, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Can we not get into this again? Because as much as you want to argue against the fact, I gave you no less than two examples that were featured articles (both of which you ignored), and the non-featured article I gave you comes closer to the FA standard than the one you're working on. I said that you were to overlook the length, and that the content is what you should be aiming for, but you kept making excuse after excuse. So let us not talk about it again. Oran e   (talk)  18:06, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Rehab
Hello. How are you? Thanks for the comments concerning "Rehab" at it's FAC. I addressed some of the issues and there were additional comments. Can you check it and wright what you think about? Thanks — Tomica1111  &bull;  Question Existing?  19:33, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Ooooo I'm sorry. I thought that how faster I address the issues is better. However, It seems like I Should find a FA copy-editor. — Tomica1111  &bull;  Question Existing?  07:09, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
— WP: PENGUIN  · [ TALK ]  20:06, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Wow
Hello. How are you my friend??? Very happy to see King B in your top 5. ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 07:50, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Doing good. A bit under the weather, actually. Was actually just heading to bed, but can spare 5 minutes. Yes, King B is forever in my top 5. How are u? Oran e   (talk)  07:53, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I am fine. Thank you. For me, King B will always occupy my whole top 10. Lol. Let it be. We will talk some other day. Goodnight and sweet dreams (not that song of Beyonce. Lol.) ★Jivesh 1205★ (talk / ♫♫Give 4 a try!!!♫♫) 08:00, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Sup buddy
Hey Orane, thanks for the sources and concern! I've been having some issues in real life and honestly so confused and unsure about this coming year :( Yes, I saw about the FAC. I will try and craft a better recording section and get to some other points the other editors brought up. If its okay with you, please take a look at the article after I'm done (I'll ping you) and maybe you can see if anything else sticks out before I nominate again. BTW, the news of Adele's surgery/illness are very sad ad worrisome :( I really hope its not cancer as all the tabloids are indicating, and that she fully recovers. I think she's like MC, and tours really kill her voice as well. Thanks for everything! :D-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   22:22, 31 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks very much for your message Orane! It was very touching :) I really appreciate all your care and support, you're really awesome! That's exactly what I've been recently doing, I've had to cut a lot of people out of myself, simply because they impede my goals and ambitions for the future. I'll keep those two rules in mind, they are definitely helpful. Thanks for the help with Mimi, I'll really try to cover all those little things I missed this time! Again, thanks for being there buddy, talk to you soon :)-- CallMe Nathan  &bull;  Talk2Me   22:34, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

AfD
Your input here is appreciated. So many MBDF song articles are being made. Thanks! — WP: PENGUIN  · [ TALK ]  19:03, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

RE: Take Care
I reverted your removal of "downtempo" in Take Care. Not only is it a genre, but it is a sourced genre in the article. Dan56 (talk) 18:20, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Please refrain from changing genres, as you did to Take Care, without providing a source and without establishing a consensus on the article's talk page first. Genre changes to suit your own point of view are considered disruptive. Thank you. Dan56 (talk) 05:25, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Your ownership of articles have led to run-ins between you and I in the past. I'll say to you what I wrote in my edit summary when I removed downtempo from the infobox: "downtempo IS NOT a genre. The sources never said they were genres. Songs vary in TEMPO across various genres. temp referes to the beat/pace of the songs. The genre of a "downtempo R&B song" is R&B." Oran e   (talk)  05:29, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Do the sources need a direct statement like "this is a genre of the album"? And the only previous edit summary you gave was "downtempo is not a genre". While a Wikipedia article is not the first place to go to, I doubt it's someone's fabrication or some made-up genre/style. Google Books' results for "downtempo" show the term used in the two contexts, the tempo of the music or the genre. I don't think accusing me of article ownership is fair when I'm the only one expanding the article's prose (apart from the mess that was there before) with prose about the music, and you go on removing a genre that I cited (and had a legitimate reason to think it's an actual genre) with an assertion that it's not a genre. Dan56 (talk) 05:43, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
 * While I appreciate your efforts to expand the article, WP states that if you do not want your work to be edited mercilessly, then don't submit it here. You have not proved that downbeat is a genre. The sources you provided use them in a descriptive sense about the genres of the songs "downtempo hip hop", "downtempo R&B". If a review had said "uptempo R&B", would you think uptempo was a genre too? Oran e   (talk)  05:48, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Please review the Google Books link I gave you. "Downtempo" is an actual genre, and some writers use it synonymously with low-tempo. That's as simple as it gets. Dan56 (talk) 05:56, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

This just got more ridiculous. When has "low tempo" ever been a genre? Oran e  (talk)  05:58, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry. Why do you think I claim "low tempo" to be a genre? I'm refering to the thing you said about songs' tempos. It's about context. And as for getting other opinions, I've already requested some opinions from contributors to WP:Albums articles. Dan56 (talk) 06:01, 16 November 2011 (UTC)


 * About something seperate, you think a caret and an asterisk are clearer and better aesthetically than (co.) and (add.) for co-producer, additional production in track listings? former latter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dan56 (talk • contribs).
 * To be honest, I actually prefer the asterisk. But it's up to you. Btw, I won't challenge your addition of "downtempo" anymore. Don't get me wrong: I still oppose its inclusion in the infobox. But I'm not a fan of Drake or his music, and realize I was wasting a lot of time on what I've come to realize is a very trivial matter. So I apologize for my tone. And I hope too that you also learn to compromise in the future. Oran e   (talk)  04:32, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Appreciate the reply, and I may have something that can be a comprimise, which I recently posted at the Take Care talk page. Would it be cool with you? Dan56 (talk) 05:34, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Electronica works for me. Good stuff. Oran e   (talk)  05:42, 17 November 2011 (UTC)