User talk:Joy/Archive/2011

File:KoH-CS-Varasd.png listed for deletion
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:KoH-CS-Varasd.png, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Kelly hi! 01:43, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Importance rating
I've noticed that you've recently reassessed some articles with a remark that "importance != popularity". While it is true that importance does not equate to real life popularity, its major component is "encyclopedic popularity", i.e. likelihood that a Wikipedia user will look up a certain article, as measured by WikiProject Croatia/Popular pages. And Tesla and Tito are not exactly deficient in that department... I do not necessarily dispute the rating, I just think that the rationale given is not valid. GregorB (talk) 10:20, 3 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Actually, now that you've spelled it out, I can't say that your reasoning isn't sound. There are no hard and fast criteria on what establishes importance for a particular project, and people tend to construe it in different ways. As for myself, there are three criteria:
 * Encyclopedic importance (sometimes I try to distinguish "mid" from "low" by asking myself: is it likely that a paper encyclopedia would have this entry?)
 * Encyclopedic popularity, as already described
 * "Impact"/"specificity" - if a subject is marginally related to (or marginally impacts) Croatia and/or Croats (e.g. Battle of Lissa (1866) - this is even a borderline case for inclusion IMO), or is very broad and thus not specific to the project (e.g. Slavic peoples), it moderates the "points earned" by #1 and #2.
 * So yeah, in these two cases #3 does moderate #1 and #2, and importance is subjective and hard to define anyway, just as quality is. GregorB (talk) 11:05, 3 January 2011 (UTC)


 * If I may add to the discussion - there is a neat system in place at WikiProject Germany - maybe something could be borrowed there?--Tomobe03 (talk) 11:11, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Their criteria are very well explained... I thought about starting a discussion at the project's talk page, but I don't feel it's a major issue. I may be the only nitpicker here :-), and that's not enough to waste the time of other participants. Also - and partly for the same reason - I'm currently not in favor of creating formal criteria for WP Croatia, let alone starting an Assessment subpage, despite my general interest in the subject (I've probably assessed 3000 or so articles across various projects). But we'll see - if other editors are interested, why not? GregorB (talk) 12:38, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

"U boj, u boj" na engleskom
Dobar dan, Nisam logiran i nisam nikada uređivao wikipediju, pa koristim ovaj način da se izmijeni jedna stvar (ako držite da je moja primjedba točna).

U pjesmi "U boj, u boj" stih: "Pun'mo puške, samokrese, naše grome, naše trijese, neka ore, ruše more!" Ima idući smisao: Punimo puške, samokrese naše grome, naše trijese, neka ore, NEKA UNIŠTE NOĆNE MORE! Vjerojatno dolazi do nerazumijevanja zato što na suvremenim tipkovnicama nedostaje naglasak na slovu ó u riječi "móre".

Dakle u tom dijelu je prijevod na engleski netočan i besmislen jer nema smisla uništavati more (sea).

Hvala. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.92.205.180 (talk) 15:56, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Handling a disruptive editor
Hi! I'm afraid there's a disruptive editor at the Croatian War of Independence and Justice and Arbitration and I tried to reason with him on the talk page, but that seems to be ineffective. I'm not sure what to do not to aggravate the situation, yet to improve the article. Could you have a look please? Cheers!--Tomobe03 (talk) 16:39, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Serbian troll(s) again
Hi!

You have been involved in the case of SPA User:Velebit and his fixation with Ante Starčević.

Could you please take a look at here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Rjecina

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Velebit/Archive

and anonymous IPs.

--Kennechten (talk) 15:27, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

GA Review
Hi Joy! Can you please look at this. Apparently he wants to made a GA Review of some articles (Michael of Zahumlje & Croatian War of Independence), but needs some help. Accidentally, by doing so in wrong way, he can block other users who can made a proper GA Review. Kebeta (talk) 18:48, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Same persons...needs to be merged
The persons are: Josef von Philippovich and Josip Filipović! Regards, Kebeta (talk) 14:45, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Using images from other wikis
Hi! I'd like to use an image] from another wiki (and other city coat of arms). Is that permitted or even possible, and how should a link look like? Thanks.--Tomobe03 (talk) 17:55, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The images I'd like to use are not logos, but city coats of arms - and some of those are already present on commons (e.g. Dubrovnik). How does the copyright policy apply there - same as logos or are there any differences?--Tomobe03 (talk) 20:40, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I contacted Roberta F. on hr wiki and was informed that they got a written permission to use those images - and it is stored in a file linked to each of the images. However, Roberta had no idea what are rules in force on the English wiki for those and suggested contacting one of English wiki administrators... so should we go with that specific permission or are we required to bother the author again?--Tomobe03 (talk) 14:12, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Re: Re: File:Eastern-Europe-small.png
Nor do I, for that matter.

To get back to my request – political-geographic regions (say, the UN geoscheme) always use the existing state borders, even if their territories aren’t completely contiguous. The only exception to this rule occurs when the non-adjacent areas are exceptionally far removed from one another (French Caledonia isn’t considered part of Western Europe, for instance). --Morgan Hauser (talk) 03:51, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Your edits being copied from Trsteno
Hello, I just wanted to let you know that I have been discussing your edits at Trsteno Arboretum (although I haven't named you). It appears that some of your work on Trsteno is being used without attribution on another website.-- Beloved Freak  14:56, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

A duplicate paragraph
Hi! Could you please have a quick look at the Talk:Croatian War of Independence? Thanks.--Tomobe03 (talk) 10:42, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

People by location categories
I've noticed the creation of some people by location categories recently. In some cases, it didn't look like a good idea to me, so I inquired about it... GregorB (talk) 16:25, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Naming conventions - Momčilo Tapavica
Hi, Joy. :) It is nice that you are back to en Wikipedia, thought I was not here by myself for a wile. I want to ask you is there a way that this article can be renamed to proper title: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momcsilló_Tapavicza As I understand naming conventions related to personal names, native names of people should be preferred in titles, but it is not the case with this article. Momčilo Tapavica was an ethnic Serb who lived and died in Yugoslavia and, in accordance with that, this article should be named by Serbo-Croatian variant of his name. Current name of the article is in Hungarian only because 3 Hungarian users voted 2 years ago that it should not be in Serbo-Croatian. Their argument is that name of the article should be in Hungarian only because Momčilo Tapavica was listed under that name in the time when he won Olympic medal. Aside from magyarization and from fact that usage of non-Hungarian native names was not allowed in the Kingdom of Hungary in 1896, this man was also an architect who lived and died in Yugoslavia. So, what exactly could be done about name of this article? I know that you do not want to be involved in POV disputes related to Balkans and Central Europe, but I think that you will have neutral opinion, so I am asking you two questions: 1. which of the two names is more in accordance with naming conventions? 2. If name Momčilo Tapavica is more in accordance with naming conventions, what action I should take to rename this article? (simple renaming option just do not work for ordinary users in this case). PANONIAN 23:20, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Is this source acceptable?
Hi! Could you please look at inline citation 261 of the Croatian War of Independence. Is that video acceptable as a reference/link? - WP:YT says there's no blanket ban but I'm not sure if that's a WP:COPYVIO. Thanks.--Tomobe03 (talk) 17:14, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

The Barnstar of National Merit
Well, you deserved it long ago..:-) Kebeta (talk) 19:57, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Dalmatians (ethnic group)
Dear Josip Rodin of Hrvatska (Croatia): What did your nation's government do to the Dalmatians? Are Croatians of today their descendants? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yjfstorehouse (talk • contribs) 07:35, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Pashaluk
By adding the template to all the related articles I hope it starts growing. The article subdivisions of the Ottoman Empire is sp big that people are less encouraged to contribute. Term specific pages trigger users that can add there. I will also look for linking to trWP etc. GRprefectures-have-been-dissolved (talk) 18:01, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Herzegovina Eyalet
If applicable could you add Category:Ottoman Croatia? Also History of Bosnia and Herzegovina (1463–1878) could be renamed to Ottoman Bosnia and Herzegovina. GRprefectures-have-been-dissolved (talk) 13:09, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think I confuse anything here. I just wondered whether any part of the territory of Herzegovina Eyalet was at any time covering soil that now belongs to the state of Croatia, thus would allow to put the eyalet into the category. Another question is whether there ever was a Herzegovina Vilayet, i.e. whether after the Tanzimat reform introduced vilayet system Herzegovina was separate from Bosnia. GRprefectures-have-been-dissolved (talk) 14:32, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Hvala lijepa. GRprefectures-have-been-dissolved (talk) 14:58, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Serbia, 1941-1944
Hi, if you have time, perhaps you can help that this dispute is solved: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nedić_regime User:DIREKTOR claims that there was no political entity with name "Serbia" during WW2. Here, I collected sources that claiming otherwise: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:PANONIAN/Sources02 However, user:DIREKTOR is simply ignoring these sources and pushing idea that term "Nedić regime" was not just name of regime, but also name of territory in which this regime governed. He, however did not presented a single source that claim that "Nedić regime" was a name of a territory. I do not want to be involved in disruptive revert war with him, but I do not know what else to do instead to ask for help from administrators. I do not know how to deal with user who ignoring sources and who pushing unsourced claims, and who also cannot stop himself from revert warring. Please help with this problem, if you have free time. PANONIAN 10:20, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Croatia geography stub categories
Hi Joy - forgive me if I've overlooked it somewhere, but I can find no mention of a proposal at WP:WSS/P to create all these new Croatian geography stub categories you've been making. most of them look like they are seriously undrrsized and likely to remain so -were they ever proposed? Grutness...wha?  23:36, 16 February 2011 (UTC) (PS - please reply on my talk page, not here - you talk page is so bg it will not load properly via dial-up (this is the third time i've tried to comment on your talk page - it crashed on the other two times. I don't know what the reasons for you not archiving are, but I hope they're good ones!)
 * Thought I must have missed it somewhere! You're too kmuch an 'old hand" at this sort of thing to fall foul of the "stub nazis" ;) Grutness...wha?  01:06, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Slovenia's blockade of Croatia's EU accession‎
Hi. Just to let you know that I started a discussion about your proposed merge of Slovenia's blockade of Croatia's EU accession‎ into Croatia – Slovenia relations here. Cordless Larry (talk) 19:07, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, I now realise that you've already commented there so you must know! Cordless Larry (talk) 19:09, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Could you help? (Oduzeta stanarska prava)
A user recently created an article at Oduzeta stanarska prava which I believe to be written in Croatian. Would you be willing to either 1) help translate the article (if it can be kept), or 2) communicate with the user as I suspect he doesn't understand the messages we've been writing. The Google Translation is surprisingly good, but even if the article subject is worth keeping it would need to be massively rewritten to survive the verifiability process.

Thank you.  — Soap  —  15:45, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Nedićeva Srbija
Hm, šta će biti onda sa naslovom članka "Nedić regime"? Ovde je postignut konsenzus nekoliko korisnika da se članak preimenuje u "Nedić's Serbia"], a i korisnik DIREKTOR koji je ovde glasao protiv se kasnije složio sa tim naslovom, posle "trećeg mišljenja" korisnika TechnoSymbiosis, koji je lepo objasnio zašto naslov "Nedić regime" nije podesan kao ime države. Dakle, možeš li kao administrator da zatvoriš ovo neuspelo glasanje o mom prvom predlogu i da preimenuješ članak u "Nedić's Serbia" u skladu sa ovim konsenzusom ili treba da pokrenem novu zvaničnu proceduru za promenu imena članka u "Nedić's Serbia"? PANONIAN 15:19, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

from Dr. Pazaristanka
Thanks Joy!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr. Pazaristanka (talk • contribs) 03:06, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Croatia–Slovenia border disputes
Hi. Just to say good job at Croatia–Slovenia border disputes. I've forgotten to keep track of the merge discussion but it seems a good solution was found and you've done a good job of quickly making the moved article cover more than what was in the original "blockade" version. Keep up the good work. Cordless Larry (talk) 13:45, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Phew. And here I was, expecting a new flamewar :) Thanks for caring. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 13:50, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Uskoks
Good job on expanding and fixing the article. Now, if you could add some citations on the end of the sections, we could aim for 'B class'...:-) --Kebeta (talk) 18:29, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I know. Still, the article looks much better now. --Kebeta (talk) 18:51, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Yugoslavian elections
Please stop moving these articles. The naming format for election articles is Demonym + election type, year. Only in cases where there is no demonym (i.e. the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes) do we not use one. Cheers. Number  5  7  12:46, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but you do not get to break with the standard naming format because you don't like it. If you actually read that discussion, you will see that all three editors prior to your input supported the use of "Yugoslavian". Number   5  7  12:50, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
 * If we're using the BRD cycle, then Pelusu is the one who originally started the cycle and was reverted. Number   5  7  12:55, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Also, on a totally unrelated note, please could you consider archiving your talk page? It is far too long and takes ages to use. Cheers, Number   5  7  12:52, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Biting a newcomer
I what way of the listed here have I not avoided biting a newcomer in the article Sava? Please, assume good faith and don't call every action intended to keep things of quality being "hostile toward fellow editors". Regards. --Eleassar my talk 15:06, 30 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but I don't think the image is good enough to be kept in the article and I have provided a decent summary of my edit. So I have not "just reverted". --Eleassar my talk 15:11, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Template:Zagreb
Regarding this edit of yours - I disagree about the relevance of individual faculties being listed in the template. I've created the template based on similar templates in Category:City templates and my reasoning for including items was whether the articles might be interesting to a hypothetical visitor to the city. For this reason I only included the five most important sports venues in the city and ignored the rest in Category:Sports venues in Zagreb. UNIZG has 30+ faculties scattered across the city as I'm sure you know and IMO they deserve a separate template to list them all. Regards.  Timbouctou ( talk ) 07:44, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Request for comment
This message is being sent to you because you have previously edited the Naming conventions (use English) page. There is currently a discussion that may result in a significant change to Wikipedia policy. Specifically, a consensus is being sought on if the policies of WP:UCN and WP:EN continues to be working policies for naming biographical articles, or if such policies have been replaced by a new status quo. This discussion is on-going at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (use English), and your comments would be appreciated. Dolovis (talk) 17:40, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Karta @ izbori
Hvala! Inače se radi o "slijepoj" karti koju sam sam nacrtao po predlošku s neke karte DZS, a napisao sam i program koji povlači podatke s interneta (s DIP) i sam crta karte.

Inače sam tu kartu već i objavio, ali lijepo je i da je na Wikipediji:


 * http://pollitika.com/crveno-plavo-2010-rezultati-2-kruga
 * http://pollitika.com/detalji-prvog-kruga-tablice-karte -- jednu od ovih karata bi se moglo ubaciti za 1. krug

Imam takve karte i za prošle izbore...

lp dnik ► 20:13, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Croatian presidential election, 2009–2010
Have you seen this? Comments? GregorB (talk) 14:00, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Your message
Did I ask you ever for any explanation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.163.229.6 (talk) 22:42, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

National cabinets
Hi Joy,

The prior discussion is here. The decision was not to move to the "Adjectival cabinet" format. Based on the arguments presented in that discussion and the actions taken by other editors aftewards, it appeared that "Cabinet of country" was the accepted format; soon after the discussion, other editors moved both Canadian Cabinet and Cabinet (Fiji) to the "Cabinet of country" format. I therefore moved the remaining articles about national cabinets to that format. I made sure that all the articles about national cabinets are in Category:National cabinets or its subcategories; feel free to review them there and notify me of any moves to which you object.

Neelix (talk) 20:02, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

edits to OS-level virtualization
> Is it just me or are these edits of yours completely broken? How could those entries be duplicates when they aren't mentioned anywhere else on the page? --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 21:05, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Sandboxie was deleted accidentally. Restored. iCore Virtual Accounts was a duplicate. --MikhailGusarov (talk) 16:25, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Your opinion would be appreciated
As a member of WikiProject Countries, I'm seeking your opinion on a possible issue identified at List of sovereign states. If you have some spare moments, please contribute a comment at the Discussion of criteria. Best regards,  Night w   06:01, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

belgrade metro
You had ruined the belgrade metro page some months ago. Just so you know, I fixed that vandalism. Just because a particular commuter train goes under ground does not make it a metro. (LAz17 (talk) 01:36, 23 June 2011 (UTC)).
 * Absolutely nothing was speculative. It has not been built yet, and that is a fact. It's in the news all the time in Serbia, about plans and funding and other such problems. It's continually being delayed.
 * BG Voz is clearly a line of the Beovoz commuter rail system. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the Belgrade Metro. (LAz17 (talk) 19:50, 24 June 2011 (UTC)).

Operation Corridor
Protection might be needed here again.  Timbouctou ( talk ) 18:33, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
--Ragib (talk) 07:42, 11 July 2011 (UTC) You also have talkback about your request on nl-wiki, see here. Kind regards, Lymantria (talk) 15:34, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Assistance in Filing a Request against Administerial abuse and potential harassing
Hello Joy.

I hear you're the most experienced and oldest Croatian editor on the Wikipedia.

I seem to have gotten into some problems over at the Croatian Wikipedia, and believe that the admin who had blocked me has violated that Wikipedia's rules and guidelines. Since all other means of dispute resolution have been exhausted and since the appeals through asking administrators' opinions have failed to yield a result, after numerous discussions with other Wikipedians, who agree that this is possibly one of the most grave examples of misuse of administration powers, I have decided to file a request for the formation of a special committee which is to arbitrate between me and Administrator Ex13.

Here is in short the type of assistance I require. Will you come forth and place the request in my stead?

The Croatian Wikipedia seems to have a heap of problems...

Thanks in any case --SavoRastko (talk) 15:51, 13 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Greetings, Joy.
 * The problem has just become significantly more troublesome, as I have been indefinitely banned from the Croatian Wikipedia.
 * Are you able of offering me any sort of assistance? --82.208.217.169 (talk) 16:30, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

WP Croatia in the Signpost
"WikiProject Report" would like to focus on WikiProject Croatia for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Other editors will also have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Have a great day. -Mabeenot (talk) 14:52, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Comment from Dr. Pazaristanka
sorry I tried to fix it again, due to biased opinion from unknown, I haven't really navigated to get the practice on this site as yet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr. Pazaristanka (talk • contribs) 09:28, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Ante Starcevic
the ref Tanner, Marcus (2001) I cannot locate anywhere in his book stating that his father is Catholic Croat and Mother orthodox serb. All I can locate from his book regarding Ante Starcevic is quote " opposition to the Illyrians was led by Ante Starcevic and his Party of Rights. Starcevic and his followers took a stand on historic rights of the Croat Kingdom and looked to an idependent Croatia, not a joint Croat-Serb state." if you know in this book it states his mothers ethnicity can you please advise me as the only place I can find his mothers supposed background is from servian site srpska mreza which I know is unrealiable information. I didn't know where I could write this on the Ante Starcevic page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr. Pazaristanka (talk • contribs) 10:57, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

David S. Miller & co.
Thank you for having worked with me on this article. After reading LWN today, I commented on other notable linux hackers at WT:LINUX. Your advice over there is welcome. Regards, Comte0 (talk) 13:03, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Serb National Council
Thanks for the rename. It was pretty straightforward, but I couldn't do it myself over a redirect. I might as well have asked you right away... GregorB (talk) 20:22, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Renaming

 * Hi Joy, your temporary account on nl.wikipedia Joy-temporary has been renamed to Joy. Sincerely, Taketa (talk) 20:34, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Joy, your temporary account on sk.wikipedia Joy-temporary has been renamed to Joy. Sincerely, Adrian.benko (talk) 14:48, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Usurpation of de:User:Joy
Hello, I'm sorry to inform you, that the usurpation of de:User:Joy isn't possible, see. The german usurpation rules say, that there has to be no valid edit, but there is at least one edit in the article namespace. --APPER (talk) 11:52, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Rename bnwikisource:User:Joy
Hi, bn wikisource does not have any bureaucrat now. So you need to leave the request to the Stewards at this page. I hope they can help you.--Bellayet (talk) 14:59, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Usurpation on cs.wiki
done. --Tchoř (talk) 13:18, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Usurpation at mlwiki
Case of usurpation at ml.wikipedia has been taken up. Local user has been informed. Let us wait for his reply for 7 days. Regards --Vssun (talk) 10:32, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Request processed and done at mlwikipedia. --Vssun (talk) 19:45, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Usurpation at thwiki
The request is done. Enjoy. --Lerdsuwa (talk) 10:22, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

SUL req @ zh wiki
Hi, your request @ zh wiki is approved! best regards!--Mywood (talk) 12:22, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Usurpation on hu.wiki
Done. Cheers, SyP (talk) 12:33, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

Request for usurpation on pt.wiki
Hi. The account "Joy" is now available on pt.wiki. Regards.” TeLeS ( T @ L C S) 19:46, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Its probably acidental mistake on my part
It's probably accidental mistake on my part, it won't hurt on article about SOKO even if you can't find any. (Wouldn't hurt if you make archive for your talk-page, either). Cheers!--Santasa99 (talk) 07:37, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

AfD
Hi Joy. I disagree that All-time Prva HNL table has any merge-able content that is not already in the Prva HNL so I have taken it to AfD: see Articles for deletion/All-time Prva HNL table for my reasoning. By the way, I know it says at the top that you won't archive your talk page, but it took me quite some time to load it. Perhaps you might reconsider for the benefit of your your fellow editors (especially those with slow internet connections). Just something to consider. Best, Jenks24 (talk) 22:03, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Zagreb..
Thank you on your message and good wishes. I will be free to comment my editing name Agram to Zagreb profile. It is partly true, what you have mentioned in your message, that name Zagreb prevailed formally as name for Zagreb in german speaking countries. But it is also true that it is still traditional name for Zagreb. As you can find on pages about Ljubljana old name Laibach, on Maribor pages name Marburg or on Vienna pages croatian or hungarian name Becz or czech Viden, I dont find suspectable to put name Agram as german name for Zagreb. Most of the cities and populated places in Central Europe have few different names; of course, one official, but sometimes other better known or use in communication. One good example is Prague in Czech Republic; his czech name is Praha, but known more on his english version Prague or german version Prag. Wish you nice day:) Timeon (talk) 13:20, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Zagreb..
Your opinion stays as argument, but personaly I would never delete what other Wikipedians write except if it is untrue information or harmful subjective opinion. Does it name Agram as german or historic name have to stay in lead section or not, for me it is irelevant. The same thing is with other croatian cities; question is only is that informations are true or harmful as informations. Wish you nice evening, Timeon (talk) 21:02, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Yugoslavian elections
Eh? Where did you get the idea that I had no further qualms. I believe I clearly stated that the titles should be "Yugoslavian" and never stated that "Federal Republic of Yugoslavia elections" was right. Number  5  7  20:26, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * That's because I didn't understand what you meant. If you want to move the articles to a non-standard name, use the WP:RM process. Number   5  7  21:26, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, and threatening me with your "admin rights" is pretty poor form, especially when I'm also an admin. Like I said, initiate an RM or start a thread on WP:WPE&R if you're that bothered. As far as I'm concerned they are at the right title at present. Number   5  7  21:30, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I am aware of what the country's long form name was, but the demonym for the country remained "Yugoslavian". It does not confuse matters to keep the articles with this title because it is clear from the years when they occurred. Anyway, we are clearly of differing opinions, so I suggest you get some third party input via the avenues suggested above. Number   5  7  21:38, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Indonesian Wikipedia username
Done. dif Sorry for the long wait. Hopefully it's okay now. Meursault2004 (talk) 12:52, 22 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Done also on Wikibooks. It is a bit strange that I didn't receive your message on e-mail while I set it on. As for the users, our numbers of active users are dwindling. I think somehow people are losing interest, which is a pity ... Meursault2004 (talk) 13:11, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Serbian villages dab
Hi. Since you do a lot of maintenance of populated places in ex-Yu, may I ask you that you disambiguate Serbian villages using municipality name in parenthesis? That's the de facto naming convention over here, see List of populated places in Serbia and the wikitext therein. I know that, technically, adding, Serbia is OK way to do that, but we want to use consistent naming scheme. I believe the same convention is used for Bosnia and Herzegovina -- I'm working (still) to update List of populated places in Bosnia and Herzegovina. No such user (talk) 14:29, 22 August 2011 (UTC)


 * It's not really about parens vs. comma, but about municipality name. The bottom line is that for obscure hamlets like that, we prefer a single naming schema than a chaos where all Foo, Serbia; Foo (village), Foo, Knjaževac or Foo, Bor District are appropriate disambiguated titles. In those cases, one can see what was the basis for disambiguation, but I don't see why would anyone care. No such user (talk) 15:54, 22 August 2011 (UTC)


 * It says "Any specific national convention takes precedence though." I don't care one way or another, but it's a lot of job to move them all. Sounds like a job for a bot, or at least AWB, to me. There are several hundred articles disambiguated using parens. No such user (talk) 12:29, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Diacritics
Hi Joy. I don't know if this is of interest to you but we have one issue involving one of our famous language diacritics here and your comments will be most welcome. Thanks. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 20:25, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for responding. I appreciate your comment. It's not important whether you agree or dsagree with me personally, I'm just glad you left your mark. All the best. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 21:15, 23 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Don't be silly - your contribution was fitting and well written. I wasn't pressing for support and besides, the comments submitted by you and GregorB straight after appeared neutral (whatever is best is fine). I did feel however that it needed comments from editors from this side of things. To be honest, I know nothing about the girl: she has done well this past year ad has reached the top ten in the WTA but concerning her background, I know as much as you, she was born in Tuzla but she represents Germany internationally and that is all that is said of her in sports coverage. Now she may be Serb, Croat, even one of those declaring Yugoslav; her parents may be mixed. Her name doesn't sund Islamic but as you also know, that hasn't stopped some Orthodox/Catholics from declaring Bosniak/Bosnian! To whom do you turn when you wish to raise a dacritic issue!!??!! Wha we all need to establish is how the name is in English and go from there. In the meantime, you can add extra comments at a later time, perhaps if you've developed new ideas! In the meantime, I know there are bigger topics we all need to edit. Cheers Joy. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 21:34, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Actually, I did hear of her mother being Muslim (by faith) but it's something I haven't verified. I do believe you. You've made a good point, very inspirational. I intend to change my position from "move" to "comment" and hang in neutral. I shall continue to argue against keeping just because the so-called "reliable" sources are too lazy to observe diacritics. But we've reached the problem's apex by realising, this is a foreign issue and what do we do in English!! Until then, it will probably stay as it is. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 22:01, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Maps of municipalities
Well, I thought about showing areas that surround municipalities in these maps, but I also had other idea about that. When I draw similar maps of municipalities of Vojvodina, I thought that geographic position of each municipality could be better presented with "parent" maps that showing position of municipality within Vojvodina or within one of the districts, while maps of municipalities themselves are meant to represent positions of settlements within municipality. Therefore, if one want to see what is geographic position of one municipality, he can see that in these "parent" maps:,. Then he can also see municipality maps to see what is geographic position of each settlement in municipality:,. Sure, I agree that in the case of Croatia we do not have good detailed maps of counties which can show geographic position of each municipality. Perhaps I should create first an map of Osijek-Baranja county and only then maps of municipalities. OK, can we agree about this: I will firstly create an detailed map of Osijek-Baranja county where geographic position of each municipality will be presented and then I will create new maps of municipalities that do not showing surrounding areas (It is simply style that I prefer). Are you OK with my proposal or you still want maps of municipalities that showing surrounding areas? I think that map of municipality that show only small amount of its surrounding cannot give very good info to Wikipedia readers about geographic position of that municipality - detailed map of the county is much better for that purpose. PANONIAN 12:45, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Is this version better: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Erdut_mun.png PANONIAN  14:42, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

New Orleans MediaWiki developers' meetup in October

 * In response to your message on my talk page: Yup, this is ("subtle") recruiting. You're a developer, you love Wikimedia, so we want you to know of Wikimedia software development get-togethers and consider attending.  Within Europe, there's also going to be a UK hackathon this fall, in case that's an easier place to start! Sumanah (talk) 18:51, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Jadranska vrata
Hi! I created article Jadranska vrata with a redirect page Adriatic Gate Container Terminal (English language name of the company which is registered and in use, especially since it became 51% foreign owned). There is also article Postojna Gate with a redirect at Adriatic Gate. Could you please take a look at those and see if a hatnote should be in any of those, if any. Thanks.--Tomobe03 (talk) 19:21, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Importance categories
This sequence of edits broke the categorization for the Croatia wikiproject's importance categories, by removing the "Croatia articles by importance" category which they need to have. I put the assessment categories back into that top-level category. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 19:52, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Center / Centre
As you can see the dictionary could not recognize Centre, as it's not a correct-written word. Only correct written word is Center, and therefore you must undo your new edits on the page. Alex discussion ★ 14:01, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, then it's my mistake. Sorry.
 * Also, I strongly suggest you to archive your talk page. Reason: It takes a lot of time to load, even with a rapid connection, which knows to be very irritable. Cheers Alex discussion ★ 14:14, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Natio Hungarica
I would like to ask why it was the article Natio Hungarica redirected to Nobility in the Kingdom of Hungary? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Natio_Hungarica&action=history Until the 19th century it completely belongs to the nobility of kingdom. But in 19th century it was the basis for the creation the Hungarian nation and Slovak nation. So its connected with nationalism and with identity. Its 36 200 articles about Natio Hungarica in google books: and 16 200 hits at google scholar: http://scholar.google.sk/scholar?q=natio+hungarica&hl=sk Its enough for the independent article. This article is important because it explains the genesis of the modern nations in the Kingdom of Hungary. It belongs more to nationalism than to the Nobility in the kingdom of Hungary. Its books about this topic: http://www.uread.com/book/natio-hungarica-lambert-m-surhone/9786135415223 It was the part od my diploma work at university. Its very important to have a independent article to explain the genesis of modern nations from the Natio Hungarica. I understand that Magyar editors try to delete or hide this article, becuse it can explain that modern Magyar nation and the modern Slovak nation were created in 19th century from the Hungarian political nation which was based on the Natio Hungarica. For me its important to observe this article as the independent - i will expand it. From 19th century has this term only marginaly connection with the nobility in the kingdom of hungary. --Samofi (talk) 07:28, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * okay. thank you for your answer in my talk page. i will continue in: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Samofi/Natio_Hungarica&action=edit&redlink=1

Slovakization, Czechoslovak-Hungarian population exchange, Hungarians in Slovakia
just a one more thing. how is it possible that almost same things are written here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czechoslovak-Hungarian_population_exchange http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovakization http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarians_in_Slovakia - Slovakization in present Slovakia is written only from the Hungarian point of view and its seems like original research or POV - they are no english sources about present slovakization of hungarian minority in slovakia. i removed it about year ago and it was push back to slovakization. population exchange between hungary and czechoslovakia is hardly slovakization - it was agreement signed by Czechoslovakia and Hungary and the population was ex-changed. Is it also the part of magyarization because the 70 000 slovaks from hungary were moved to czechoslovakia. Its fictional connection with Slovakization. the part of article about current slovakization is attack to slovakia and POV, hungarians have a schools, cultural institutions, media and university in slovakia - so all this section should be redirected to Hungarian Minority in Slovakia, where it belongs. It has no connection with Slovakization. Population exchanges should be mentioned in czechoslovak-hungarian population exchanges. And section about re-slovakization is not the same like slovakization, but okay it can be mentioned. i think someone sould to do something with this. --Samofi (talk) 08:16, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Natio Hungarica
I am rather miffed at the trigger-happy full protection of this redirect by, but what you did looks a lot like wheel-warring, too. The best thing would be to unprotect this thing, and block the patriotic trolls edit-warring over it instead.

Your redirect is now itself a violation of WP:SURPRISE, as I have removed the obviously misplaced section you pointed it at. Please fix it. Or, imo, ideally just unprotect the thing so it can be edited by people who are actually interested in fixing the nationalist troll problem our Hungary topics seem to be suffering from at the moment.

I wanted to turn "Nation Hungarica" into a disambiguation page, as follows: Natio Hungarica may refer to:
 * in the medieval kingdom of Hungary, members of the Hungarian Diet
 * in the modern era, a concept in Hungarian nationalism
 * see also Name of Hungary

--dab (𒁳) 09:15, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

wait, what? I had no intention of "abusing" you. The above is, in my book, an expression of irritation that you edited a fully protected page, and a constructive suggestion on how to proceed. I don't know when I have last edited a fully protected page, but I am sure you are fully aware that whenever you do this, you are going to take some flak. Usually people will shout "admin abuse" and post angry comments to ANI. I realize, of course, that your edit was harmless and in good faith, but I cannot understand why you should come to my talkpage and shout at me for "abusing" you. It takes an "admin with balls" to ignore full protection, and I salute you for that, I suppose, but you will still have to live with my disagreeing with your edit, that's no big deal. --dab (𒁳) 09:43, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

yeah sorry. I apologize for my tone.

I had no administrative involvement with this article. As happens often, apparently one of the edit-warriors picked up on my "adminhood" and started to throw around claims of what "admin Dbachmann" had done even if I had just been involved as a regular editor and never touched my admin buttons.

All admin involvement with this was entirely benevolent, and we must avoid having an edit-war between pov pushers spill over into a dispute between bona fide Wikipedians with no stakes in the content issues.

I can only surmise that what we are seeing here is a spillover of ethnic crankery going on in Hungary in the wake of the 2010 Jobbik election victory. --dab (𒁳) 10:00, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

New Battle of Vukovar article
FYI, I'm working on this article in my user space now - see User:Prioryman/Battle of Vukovar. There are many changes, including a completely new reference format, so I wouldn't worry too much about fixing up the existing article at the moment. Prioryman (talk) 22:25, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Vinux
Hi Joy. Problem solved. Take a look at Template talk:Linux for a discussion on this. I was looking for a place for it to fit in, and advised to add it to the list, so have now done that. Cheers TheRetroGuy (talk) 13:35, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Re: Lučko interchange
Indeed we should have one for each named interchange of that magnitude, Lučko certainly topping the list. I'll get around to that once A1 (Croatia) FAC is over one way or another - unfortunately as of yesterday, I'll have a lot less time to edit during the next ten days or so because of an urgent project IRL.--Tomobe03 (talk) 12:59, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

DIREKTOR moje mape zamenjuje svojim prepravljenim verzijama
Joy, molim te pogledaj ovo:
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * 
 * 

DIREKTOR je prepravio mape koje sam ja radio i sada te prepravljene verzije mojih mapa ubacuje u članke umesto mojih originalnih. Suštinski, njegove mape se razlikuju samo po boji i ne vidim ni jedan objektivan kriterijum zbog kojeg bi njegove prepravljene verzije bile "bolje". Mislim, ako sam već uložio neki trud da nešto nacrtam za vikipediju, da li je fer da sad drugi korisnik promeni boju na tim mapama na osnovu svog potpuno subjektivnog osećaja i da zameni te mape verzijama sa promenjenim bojama? Šta sad da radim ako on bude počeo "revert war"? PANONIAN 07:48, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Nemam živaca nastavljati se sa DIREKTOROM na svim člancima. Što se mene tiče, nek stavi svoju mapu NDH u taj članak ako hoće. PANONIAN  07:55, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Ž1035
Hi! I was wondering would it be of any benefit to merge Slavonska Avenue, Zagrebačka Avenue and Ljubljanska Avenue into Ž1035 road (Croatia) since the three are fairly short articles with a common history as Brotherhood and Unity Highway, all three are greatly affected by Zagreb bypass, all three are designated as Ž1035, and most importantly the Ž1035 article would lend itself to expansion to become a better article. Any thoughts?--Tomobe03 (talk) 11:32, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Just thought to mention this as a possibility.--Tomobe03 (talk) 12:41, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Perhaps a redirect from Ž1035 should be made to point to something so that template would work (like in case of Ž1040 road (Croatia)?--Tomobe03 (talk) 13:56, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Sorry
I'm very sorry Mr. Joy, I did not know that. You see, my approach for interacting with Wikipedia is not editing directly the articles but to meditate on them, and serve as a lighthouse for others. It is the same approach to my life: I set aside worldly concerns in order to focus on spiritual and philosophical matters. You and your friends would benefit enormously from that, trust me. Why are you here or I, after all? It is a basic question. On the one hand, this life is attractive because it requires my soul to set my life—inner and outer—in order. In the midst of a culture that increasingly pitches towards chaos, my life stands fast, with balance and structure. But along with this balance and structure come costs: following a rule of life will set my soul against the patterns and trends of contemporary culture, against the habits and prerogatives of friends and family and against the principalities of darkness that roam the earth much like corporativism. This life is attractive purely for what it is: a way for my soul to grow in knowledge and love of others, including you. Your love and generous hospitality. Along with this love comes a deep sense of being at home here at Wikipedia. Peace and tension; freedom and submission: these are some of the paradoxes of this community. As the saying goes, a life lived without a rule or plan is as a ship without a chart or compass.

Have a bright day, --Phleer (talk) 15:19, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Battle of Vukovar FAC
I'm planning to nominate the article over the weekend after I've done a bit more copyediting. However, I may be without Internet access for a few days next week as I'll be away. Would you mind it if I named you as a co-nominator so that the FAC can be looked after in my possible absence? I don't expect there will be much action in the first few days, as it will take some time for people to read and review the article. Prioryman (talk) 21:24, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, I've co-nominated the article at Featured article candidates/Battle of Vukovar/archive1. Email is enabled too, by the way. I'll be reunited with my regular Internet connection in a week's time - I'll try to check in here in the meantime if I can find a usable wi-fi network. Prioryman (talk) 00:05, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Balkans etc.
Hi, just a quick note to advise that your 'friend' 58.173.108.97 is back in action again!!. Denisarona (talk) 13:45, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

You re-introduced a false claim on Cdrkit
With http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cdrkit&diff=450435070&oldid=450433926 you re-introduced an easy to prove false claim. The false claim exists as a result from reverting the time line and thus incorreclty claiming that Debian reacted on something. When Debian started to attack the Cdrtools project in summer 2005 by claiming that cdrecord partly changed the license, cdrecord was 100% GPL. The license for cdrecord was not changed before May 15 2006 and the license change was just a reaction on previous false claims from Debian and the fact that the FSF did not help against this attack. After the license change, cdrecord was 100% CDDL and Debian continued to claim that there was a "GPL problem" with cdrecord. Wikipedia cannot be used as a platform for incorrect or biased claims. Please follow the WP rules and fix your mistake. --Schily (talk) 11:58, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Maps in infobox settlement
Is there some simple way to replace the standard location map used in articles on Croatian settlements with maps highlighting counties? For example, to replace the map shown in the article on Novalja with File:Croatia location map, Lika-Senj county.svg?  Timbouctou ( talk ) 21:21, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Re: re-creation
Either History of Dalmatia or, perhaps even better, Dalmatian Italians - there's already a substantial "History" section in this article. I thought the content was reasonably well written and organized so it may still be useful for improving either of these two articles. GregorB (talk) 14:01, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Can't really say yes or no... I don't have an interest in this subject. I don't know for sure what is the degree of duplication. You might drop a note explaining the situation on the talk pages of these two articles, so that interested editors would have a chance to use the deleted content. GregorB (talk) 14:16, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

"Southern" A5
Hi! Would you please take a look at this - a quite official-looking document which appears to have the A5 at Ploče... What do you make of it, and should it be somehow touched upon in the A5 (Croatia)? Thanks.--Tomobe03 (talk) 23:00, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe it was just a sloppy rush job or something. There are still ample sources for the A10 as it is such as this government website, this Narodne Novine site, and this HAC site. The first two are from 2011 and the last one is from November 2010, all more recent than the "southern" A5.--Tomobe03 (talk) 23:44, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually the sources are very conclusive on existence of the motorway plans its route details etc. And in all cases except the above document the A10 reference is consistent. I think we may disregard this one but remain on lookout for any further indication of any number changes.--Tomobe03 (talk) 23:58, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I couldn't agree more... But in case of the A10, since EBRD funding is secured, construction designs completed and the thing is actually supposed to be less than 5 km long there's hope. On the other hand, the redirect you mentioned may very well apply to the A13 (Croatia) as it appears to be made entirely of wishful thinking.--Tomobe03 (talk) 00:20, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Content deleted
I am recovering material from the Google cache, because much of it seems good quality. Can you help me somehow? Many articles about WW2 and Italian irredentism have been deleted: can you resurrect and move them into user/project subpages? --Enok (talk) 20:13, 29 September 2011 (UTC)


 * The only article that I copied in full is 1 Libyan Division Sibelle, which is very short and contains only basic informations. The other two I created are Italians of Ethiopia and Italian Libya Railways, two stub articles on a subject that I do not know (I re-created the pages just to not lose the hyperlinks, but they are basically empty). Now I'm copying the rest into my subpages (eg sandbox5), so do not miss the content and can work leisurely on it. If you can do this, I need two articles from the deleted revision storage: Italian irredentism in Istria and Italian irredentism in Switzerland. You can copy them in sandbox6 and sandbox7. Thanks. --Enok (talk) 23:05, 29 September 2011 (UTC)


 * The current status of 1 Libyan Division Sibelle (the recreated version of the deleted sock article 1st Libyan Division Sibelle) is untenable, because of the lack of copyright attribution. Either the article remains deleted, or it gets rewritten completely from scratch, or the old page history must be restored and histmerged with the new copy-paste reposting. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:30, 30 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I looked at it, and there was a wee bit of prose that could be copyrightable, together with the general layout, so I merged the histories. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 07:50, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Well, if you do not want to ban also the article about Italo-etiopians, we need to find a solution. Maybe lock the page(s) to anonymous users for a month? Personally I do not have enough knowledge on that subject, besides having no time during this period. --Enok (talk) 11:39, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Dinara
I see that you recently made some edits on the article Dinara. I am hoping you could shed some light on the issue I raised on Talk:Dinara as I am very confused by some things regarding this mountain. Thank you. --Racerx11 (talk) 20:56, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Battle of Vukovar again
Thanks very much for all your help in the Battle of Vukovar A-class review. I've renominated it for FAC at Featured article candidates/Battle of Vukovar/archive2 (taking the liberty of naming you as co-nominator again - hope this is OK?). Please feel free to comment there. Prioryman (talk) 18:39, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Zrinski Bridge and Zrinyi Bridge
Hi! I have just created Zrinski Bridge article, but I'm not quite sure should it be Zrinyi Bridge instead or not. Maybe even Mura River Bridge (A4-M7) or something else. Any thoughts?--Tomobe03 (talk) 17:32, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

You've got mail

 * Thanks for the move, I simply could not manage. The table in the Croatia article looks fine now, except (at least in my browser) it overlaps with Education section title which appears near the top of the table. The rest of the education section, starting with the main article template is correctly positioned at the bottom of the table. It appears to be solvable with so, I'll add that after the table.--Tomobe03 (talk) 09:27, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Citing references
I am sorry, what was this? I am very much interested in alternative suggestions, but they need to be referenced. The only source I found, i.e. the one I did cite, suggests precisely what I have said it suggests. Here is an online version on scribd.com. The author states explicitly that "Primordia" was an old name of the island now known as Premuda. I don't know what to make of this, or why such a tiny island would be one of the nine provinces of "Illyria", but by simply removing this reference and replacing it by a completely unreferenced claim of your own, you are not exactly helping.

This is a rather hairy problem, and we need to keep track of who said what exactly. "Hulmia" is not the term used in the armorial, it appears to be a term invented by Blazevic (2010). I have no idea where it is from, but there is no other evidence on google books of its being used in the context of "Illyria". The actual armorial says "Primordia". Blazevic for some reason seems to "translate" Primordia as "Hulmia". If you can shed light on this, I will be grateful, but by "shedding light" I mean citing better sources than the ones we have so far. Thank you --dab (𒁳) 11:07, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

I replied on my talkpage. Also, check out this image, I believe of the "Belgrade Armorial", with a handwritten note (a 19th century hand?) which says "Primordia & Rumania". Perhaps you can make something of this. I tried to google it, but with zero result. I rely on google translate to make sense of Serbo-Croatian web pages, perhaps you are in a better position to find something. Regards, --dab (𒁳) 15:18, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

After giving this some thought, I have come to the conclusion that you are very likely correct, and that Primordia is Zachlumia. But it is surprising how difficult it is to find any quotable source on this. I understand that "Zachlumia" was the bit of coast facing the Adriatic Islands, so it makes perfect sense that it may also have been called primorja, and it makes further sense that this was heard as primordia in Latin. Finally, the name of Premuda apparently continues not just primorja, but indeed the Latin corruption primordia, so that it is likely that this island just happens to preserve what was formerly the name of the entire province.

So, I am happy to assume that the coat of arms in question was supposed to represent Zachlumia.

Of course you are right that all these coats of arms are "heraldic fiction" of the 1590s. But they are extremely interesting inasmuch as this fiction became reality, i.e. the coat of arms of Serbia (Serbian cross) as well as the Golden Lion of Macedonia and perhaps the Coat of arms of Croatia are all based on this "fiction". What makes it interesting is that it was a fraud created not for reasons of nationalism, but just for personal advancement, which ended up turning into "real" heraldry over the next century or two, and remains in use by real nationalists today. --dab (𒁳) 11:28, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Luka, Zagreb County
Hi! I spotted in the WP:Croatia assessment log Luka, Croatia, and noticed that there are articles linking to it via Luka, Zagreb County redirect (A12 (Croatia)) and via Luka DAB page (Vrbovec). Still, the two references are about Luka near Vrbovec and have nothing to do with the municipality or settlement north of Zaprešić. I'm not quite sure if Luka near Vrbovec warrants an article or not, or what the disambiguation should be if it does, so I thought to drop you a note. Cheers.--Tomobe03 (talk) 11:02, 8 October 2011 (UTC) Oh, and just to make things more interesting, there is another Luka in the municipality of Sali, Croatia that also links to the Luka DAB page.--Tomobe03 (talk) 11:05, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Vukovar
Thanks Joy (wow, you have a great user name!) for this. I am sorry for my error and I have explained at the FAC discussion how it happened. Thanks too for all your hard work on the article. I have only ever been to Croatia once, in November 1990 when I visited Kardeljevo and Zagreb, but I liked it very much. Maybe one day I will come and see it again as an independent country. Best wishes, --John (talk) 03:40, 9 October 2011 (UTC)


 * As far as the user name is concerned - ditto! Yet, when I first I picked it I was aiming for the emotion, and didn't realize it was a feminine given name. Oh well. :)
 * I figured it was a series of circumstances that led to the problem. It was just odd to me that you were doing a copyedit but missed the big red syntax error warnings at the end :D
 * Regardless of politics, November seems like the worst time to visit - please do come back some other season :) --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 08:58, 9 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I was doing an InterRail tour of the newly-open east, also involving Budapest, Prague and Belgrade. I loved Budapest, and Prague was beautiful but left me cold. I was nearly arrested in Belgrade for taking pictures of railway trains. On the way I met two Soviet citizens and we talked for a day, which was fascinating. They were entranced by the sight of palm trees when we reached Kardeljevo. Their valuables were all stolen while we slept on the train on the way to Zagreb, and we got drunk together on vodka. I was too hungover to see much of Zagreb though it looked like a cool city. On all the trains in this era were JNA soldiers who were deploying. They were very friendly young guys. I wonder how many of them survived the coming war. Oh, the memories. --John (talk) 19:49, 9 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, after hearing that, one thing that I could promise is that your experience today would be different, because we tried our best to lose much of that rusty, eastern-Bloc feel :) though the railways are still a bit behind and there's certainly no shortage of rakia. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 20:11, 9 October 2011 (UTC)


 * I've not been to Croatia myself in a few years - my last trip there was down the length of the Adriatic coast in 1993, which was an interesting time and place to visit. I suspect those $10 hotel rooms I stayed in at Dubrovnik have had a few price hikes since then! Prioryman (talk) 21:28, 9 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Slivovitz! I would love to see what it is like now. Working on the article has reinforced my wish to do another Eastern Europe tour when I can. I passed through Sarajevo by night in 1990 and would love to see it properly, and Vukovar should probably be on the list too. I hope I can some time have both the free time and the money to do it. --John (talk) 04:28, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Prevara Don Pedra
In case you are still interested in this, the article at ciode.ca said that Don Pedro was inspired by a 1555 armorial by Virgil Solis. I have now researched this a little, and it turns out this information was valuable, and likely correct.

Virgil Solis has numerous fictional coats of arms, including those of the Three Magi(!). His "foreign kingdoms" section is interesting, as it mixes genuine and fictional heraldry. It turns out that his arms of "Anthiopia" became the strange bolts-with-heads in the coat of arms of Bosnia, and "Schlafanien" turned into Slavonia. Also very interesting is "Crawacien", which was given the arm-with-sabre that ended up as the coa of "Primordia" and eventually Habsburg Bosnia. Note that "Crawacien" is different from Croatia, which is "Croacien" and given the correct checkerboard coa by Solis.

Also intriguing is the fact that while Solis has Croacien, Crawacien, Dalmatia, Schlafanien, besides the weirdest items like Gog and Magog and a "kingdom of 15 islands", there is no trace of Serbia, with either a fictional or a historical coa. So the Serbian cross may have been the original invention of Don Pedro(?) --dab (𒁳) 14:09, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Lt. Gen. Drago Lovrić, Chief of CAF GS
Hello,

would you please consider using the information from the following link (official bio) http://www.osrh.hr/data/ngsosrh_en.asp for the English version of the page for Lt Gen Drago Lovrić, Chief of CAF GS ([]).

Thank you

194.126.213.14 (talk) 12:53, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Stack and fix bunching
I responded on the talk page for stack begin and overhauled the examples in stack documentation to show why the stack templates are needed for layout problems. In short, it is no longer a "[edit]" links bunching issue, but a float layout issue. I hope this clears things up a bit. Thank you. Frietjes (talk) 17:58, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Re: Barnstar
Ha ha, I guess one could say I'm too lazy to arrange them properly... Thank you! GregorB (talk) 10:39, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Question
User recently changed a number of sports club logos, by simply taking existing images, converting them into svg format, uploading them and then changing the file link in articles to point to his creation. I only noticed because he did that with a couple of png logos I had uploaded way back. Normally I wouldn't mind if they were really conversions to vector format but when one looks at his svg's they are blurry in resolutions higher than the original file, so nothing really was gained by it. Is this some kind of vandalism, should this be reported somewhere or is this sort of thing OK? I really don't know.  Timbouctou ( talk ) 00:04, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
 * He doesn't seem responsive to messages left on his talk page so I'll just leave it be. One of those things which are best ignored I guess. (Btw you didn't get me - I was not asking for intervention but an opinion on whether this is something that needs fixing or not per image policies, guidelines and the other million or so obscure rules we have around here.)  Timbouctou ( talk ) 13:21, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Italians of Ethiopia
Could I please get your input on Talk:Italians of Ethiopia? Need an admin's help, and obviously you've been involved before with this page. Would be much appreciated, thanks. :) Buttons to Push Buttons (talk | contribs) 16:24, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Dedaković
Have you seen my remark re Dedaković in the talk page? The article currently chooses Butković over Šušak, and I'm not sure that's entirely warranted. If not, these two sentences about him are perhaps best dropped altogether. GregorB (talk) 10:10, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Is this an admin abuse?
I need a help or advice. Fut.Perf. gave me a topic ban: " I am therefore banning you, indefinitely, from all edits relating to Hungarian and/or Slovakian ethnic and national disputes (including but not limited to: naming issues, issues of ethnic/national characterization of historical personalities, and historic conflicts involving these nations". Last time I was editing only this: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Hungarian_people&action=history Somebody started discussion about rename page "Hungarian people" to "Magyars" because "Magyar" is ethnic term and "Hungarian" is connection with territory (all ethnicities from the Hungarian kingdom were Hungarians - like a political nation). I think its not reason for topic ban. Its not about ethnical or national dispute, its about usage of terms "Hungarian" and "Magyar". I have a master degree and these topics were a theme of my diploma - so its not about ideology, Iam neutral in this case (iam not hungarian and i did not study at slovakia). Iam not nationalist like a some people here thinks, or Iam not a POV-pusher. I have only different opinion and I discuss it at talkpage. This admin undone my arguments: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Hungarian_people&diff=next&oldid=456639173 Is it justified ban topic? I was nationalistic a 1,5 year ago but I changed. I dont understand which rule I have broken now, excpt of thing that I have a different opinion than User:Fakirbakir, but is this not a bigger nationalism: ? I argumented by sources, they by emotions and Iam banned. Thank you for help or advice. --Samofi (talk) 09:13, 21 October 2011 (UTC)


 * About User Samofi: Fakirbakir (talk) 11:05, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
 * It is a harassment, all Magyar users argument with this old statement - it was a long time ago. Yes I told it, I was a newcomer, I knew nothing about Wiki rules, I was a nationalistic and I was blocked for a 6 months - so stop to talk about this, I was punished. I had time to change and improve my English. From that time I have not used such words. User:Fakirbakir has no consequences from his nationalistic editing and attacks to Slovakia and Slovaks. Administrators were sleeping in this case: but my discussion at talkpage about terminology of "Hungarian" and "Magyar" based on reliable sources is nationalistic and a reason for a topic ban. It looks like a double standards of admins at Wikipedia between me and Magyar users.--Samofi (talk) 12:46, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I do not want a debate here, this is my last comment. Unfortunately, User Samofi continuously accuses Hungarian users (User:Baxter9, User:Norden1990, User:Nmate, User:Hobartimus, User:Koertefa and me.)Fakirbakir (talk) 13:09, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

statement
Fakirbakir (talk) 10:53, 21 October 2011 (UTC) Fakirbakir (talk) 12:38, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Noted
I understand.

Thanks anyway, --SavoRastko (talk) 12:39, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Care to talk?
Please stop edit warring at Moroccan. Discuss until consensus is reach and do not move the page. Since 2004 this has been a redirect, you should respect that and not try to impose it by instant-revert --Tachfin (talk) 16:37, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok see you at ANI, you've used your admin tools while involved. Tachfin (talk) 16:39, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

ANI notification
There currently a discussion regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Discussion is here --Tachfin (talk) 17:11, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Portanova (Osijek)
Dear Joy, I would be grateful if you could give me an explanation why is article Portanova (Osijek)advertising or promotion and all articles about shopping center set on this page are not?: Shopping mall, examples: Manchester Arndale, MetroCentre (shopping centre), Eldon Square Shopping Centre and so on… Further, if Portanova (Osijek) article was advertising, why it is not deleted in Croatian version from where it was merely translated to English article you have deleted. Portanova Osijek is a regional center, not a small “garage” company and all the items in article were facts! Thank you for your response in advance. MajaMP — Preceding unsigned comment added by MajaMP (talk • contribs) 06:59, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Archive?
Hi, might it be time to archive your talk page? It's over 650 threads long now. There are nifty bots that can do it automatically, if you'd rather not waste time :). Regards, AGK  [</nowikI>&bull; ] 09:24, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Portanova (Osijek)
Dear Joy, if you could overlook Portanova (Osijek) article on User:MajaMP/Portanova (Osijek) so I would be sure this time it is written according to English Wikipedia policies so I don't publish it if you disaprove. Thank you. MajaMP — Preceding unsigned comment added by MajaMP (talk • contribs) 11:44, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Portanova (Osijek)
Dear Joy, are we out of the woods with newest editing on article Portanova (Osijek)? if not, please be more specific what more editing is necessary to create an aproved article by wikipedia. Thank you. --MajaMP (talk) 08:38, 27 October 2011 (UTC)MajaMP

Notes for Croatia
Hi! I saw you moved the small font notes within the Croatia infobox to a separate section. I think that was a good move, but looking at the sections in plain view now, I feel they are redundant: The formation of the Kingdom SHS is covered and referenced in the text, so is the first mention of Croats in Frankish chronicles, and so was - most plainly end of the Frankish overlordship. Would you object if I removed those, arguably adding the official language info in form of a single sentence with an appropriate ref to the "Languages" subsection. IMO that would be an improvement.--Tomobe03 (talk) 10:18, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem, sorry about the EC... I'll get back to the article in a little while.--Tomobe03 (talk) 10:22, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads up... one thing though the SHS was renamed to Yugoslavia in 1931. Dictatorship started in 1929 and formally ended by imposed constitution of 1931 which also introduced the name. Formally no constitution was in force in 1929-1931 (see ref in the article for details).--Tomobe03 (talk) 10:27, 27 October 2011 (UTC)


 * After a closer look, I still have a dilemma: Should co-founding of the Kingdom SHS be in the infobox between State SHS and Yugoslav Republic? If so, the infobox template offers no further slots, so would you recommend merging the two principality slots (after all the years are not very definite, especially the first one which may only be said to probably date to the 9th century) or the two 1991 events? I personally lean towards simply removing the first item in the "Establishment" section of the infobox, but I'm not quite sure. The period is well covered in the article itself and the lead so I don't feel a major loss would occur, esp. since the 840 independent principality is right there next to the entry.--Tomobe03 (talk) 10:42, 27 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Agreed, this should be in Talk:Croatia... how do we move the discussion from the two talk pages?--Tomobe03 (talk) 10:45, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Congratulations on the promotion
Congratulations on the FA promotion of the Battle of Vukovar. Great work on the article! Now, is there a procedure to nominate the FA for a main page appearance on the November 18?--Tomobe03 (talk) 15:28, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
 * See WP:TFA/R. Jenks24 (talk) 15:44, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
 * There's a limit of five candidates on WP:TFA/R at any one time. So we need to wait until a slot opens up - most likely when Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare gets the nod for November 5 or 8. I'll write up a blurb and post it on the article talk page for comment. Prioryman (talk) 18:28, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

A beer for you!

 * Cheers :) --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 08:51, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Krsko Nuclear Power Plant
You've just threatened me with banning my IP because I've deleted a Croatian variant of Krsko Nuclear Power plant, quoting Balkans arbitration. If you continue to impose biased usage of the arbitration rules I will expose and escalate your behavior.

Also, just out of curiosity, please explain a) how does the arbitration you've cited apply to this case, and b) why does a power plant in Slovenia require Croatian name variant.


 * If the two major owners of the plant speak Slovenian and Croatian, and you remove one of these, you reduce the amount of easy verifiability that any reader can do by searching elsewhere for these terms. When you do it several times without explanation, it demonstrates lack of civility and a bias. Please follow Wikipedia policies. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 10:36, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * By that rationale all companies with international stakeholders should have their name written in their stakeholders' respective languages. Which is clearly not the case and is not a policy of Wikipedia. Again, please follow Wikipedia policies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.63.27.251 (talk) 13:37, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * So, what exactly is your argument, which exact policy are you basing it in? All I see is straw man. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 14:23, 30 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Again, which Wikipedia policy states exactly that a company's name must be spelled out in all languages of its respective shareholders? Here's a quick answer: none. It is you who's quoting a bullshit policy, not me, buddy. But, of course, if you'll feel better wielding your 'power', please go ahead and undo my edit. It's just another small dent in Wikipedia's fading relevancy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.63.27.251 (talk) 16:58, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Serbinum
I did not had time to answer your post about Serbinum, but I am not sure that your edits are correct. Do you have some sources that saying that name Serbinum/Serbinium was used for Pécs? Article about Pécs says that it was known as Sopianae. I do not think that these old maps showing Pécs - by my opinion, they showing Gradiška, but authors of these maps wrongly depicted its location. So, which source connecting this name to Pécs? PANONIAN 06:01, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, maps that showing Serbinum in Baranja are definitely wrong. I now included one that showing it in proper location, and I also examined Ptolemaic maps in two published sources that I have, which also showing this settlement in Bosnia. PANONIAN  17:36, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I do not have source that explicitly says that maps that showing Serbinum in Baranja are wrong. It is my own opinion that I based on the following facts: 1. there are other maps that showing location of Serbinum in Bosnia (like one that I recently included into Serbinum article), 2. there are sources that saying that Serbinum was located in Gradiška (for example Gradiška web site) and 3. there are no sources that saying that Serbinum is old name for Pécs (at least as far as I know). Therefore, map that showing Serbinum in Bosnia should remain in Serbinum article, while two maps that showing Serbinum in Baranja should not be used in any of the two articles (about Serbinum or about Pécs) until we find some evidence which of the two modern towns is depicted on these maps. PANONIAN  19:43, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Battle of Vukovar TFAR
Hi Joy, I've written a blurb for WP:TFAR which you can see at Talk:Battle of Vukovar. When a slot opens up on TFAR - you'll need to monitor it - please add in the blurb for November 18. The article has six points in total (1 for November 18 being a significant date, 2 for the decennial anniversary, 2 for being widely covered, and 1 for you being a first-time requester). Prioryman (talk) 08:53, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Imported edits
Hi! I've noticed that you seem to be a bit upset about edits imported to some wiki from some other wiki (for example, edits imported to German Wikipedia to English Wikipedia) because the importing process may miscredit someone's edits to someone else. Are you aware that German Wikipedia also is importing edits from external (non-Wikimedia) wikis which are not using the SUL system? For example, I noticed that and  recently were imported to de:Canon de 120 long modèle 1878 and de:Somers-Klasse. Since this external wiki isn't using SUL, someone else could easily "steal" your user name there, potentially creating new miscredited imported edits in the future. You might wish to register a local account on this wiki in order to prevent this. I just did the same myself. If you're aware of any other non-SUL wiki from which any Wikimedia project might import edits, it would be nice to know. --Stefan2 (talk) 14:27, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, don't get me wrong, but there's no freaking chance in hell that I'm going to start running around the Internet opening accounts on places just because some people don't understand basic tenets of the copyright law. This needs to be fixed at the root - any import of any edit that can cause ambiguity over its true author must not be done. Can you recommend a place where this can be appealed to? My previous attempts have failed. Well, some people told me they agree, but nothing of any relevance seemed to have been done in response. Right now I'm tempted to bring it up at User talk:Jimbo Wales... :/ --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 22:50, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not too happy about the imported edits myself either. If I hold the same user name on the other wiki (e.g. Greek Wikipedia where one of my English Wikipedia edits was imported), there's no problem, but I also have some misattributed edits, which could cause confusion. I don't know very much about the administration behind Wikimedia projects, so I'm not aware of any place for appealing. Given that German Wikipedia decided to import two articles from the mentioned external wiki, I take it that German Wikipedia administrators may import articles from any MediaWiki wiki using a compatible licence, and there are plenty of those wikis. I decided to register an account at the weapon technology wiki since I know that articles have been imported from there to Wikimedia, but I don't want to spend all of my time opening accounts everywhere on the Internet. I'm mainly concerned about imports to Wikimedia wikis; if edits are imported here and misattributed to me, other users might believe that I have knowledge or interest in something totally uninteresting or unknown to me, and if someone else's vandalism is imported, it could maybe make admins believe that my account needs to be blocked somewhere. If edits are exported from Mediawiki and imported elsewhere, this would be someone else's problem, so I don't care too much. --Stefan2 (talk) 13:47, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Operation Corridor
Can you point me what exactly i can help? If you ask me, i would remove several pointless things, as for now, article is like a list of backgrounds, while numerous parts as completely unsourced. -- WhiteWriter speaks 22:41, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Archive
Yes, I know this has been brought up many times before.

Can you please archive your talk page now? There are bots that will do it. See WP:ARCHIVE for more info, such as how to do it, what bots you can use to automatically archive it, etc. I request that you do this because you know a user talk page absolutely needs archiving when it has over 650 topics at once. Thanks. LikeLakers2 (talk &#124; Sign my guestbook!) 01:42, 1 November 2011 (UTC)


 * No, it doesn't. Will everyone please stop pestering me about this? :) --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 10:54, 1 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I understand you like your talk page the way it is and that's fine by me. But would it be possible to add some shortcut button on top which would save time needed to scroll down to bottom? <span style='font-family: Georgia, serif; color:#639;'> Timbouctou (<span style='font-family: Georgia, serif; color:#639;'> talk ) 13:24, 1 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Press the End key. D'oh. :) --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 13:49, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the tip, one learns something new every day :-) <span style='font-family: Georgia, serif; color:#639;'> Timbouctou (<span style='font-family: Georgia, serif; color:#639;'> talk ) 15:47, 1 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Timbouctou, if you buy stronger computer and faster Internet, you will load Joy's page in a second. :) I do not have problem with his page any more. PANONIAN  17:44, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

TFAR time
Two slots are open now - time to go nominate Battle of Vukovar! :-) Prioryman (talk) 08:05, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Villages/settlements
The article calls it a settlement of a village. If it's not accurate to call it a settlement, fix the article so that the article calls it a village. A disambiguation page should not contain information that's not in the linked article, and someone editing a disambiguation page should not be called upon to understand the intricacies of Croatian geography. Theoldsparkle (talk) 20:13, 3 November 2011 (UTC)


 * For purposes of the Grab page, it doesn't really matter what Gracac is, that I see. As I understand it, our disagreement is whether to describe Grab as a settlement or a village. The linked article, Gračac, says that Grab is a settlement. Since the disambiguation page should only include information that's contained in the linked article, the disambiguation page calls Grab a settlement. If it's not accurate to call Grab a settlement, then Gračac should be corrected. Theoldsparkle (talk) 21:23, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

DIREKTOR (again)
Check out his recent edits at Zoran Milanović. <span style='font-family: Georgia, serif; color:#639;'> Timbouctou (<span style='font-family: Georgia, serif; color:#639;'> talk ) 10:49, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, check out this, this and this. <span style='font-family: Georgia, serif; color:#639;'> Timbouctou (<span style='font-family: Georgia, serif; color:#639;'> talk ) 15:26, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, and you might want to check out this edit, this revert and this revert. <span style='font-family: Georgia, serif; color:#639;'> Timbouctou (<span style='font-family: Georgia, serif; color:#639;'> talk ) 15:58, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * If you think I should enforce WP:ARBMAC, I should tell you that I've recently been dragged through WP:ANI for being "involved" for a completely frivolous reason. So there's little I can do with DIREKTOR because we've had a run-in at e.g. Talk:Prime Minister of Croatia, which is both relatively recent and relevant. I think you may want WP:RFC/USER or something similar. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 18:53, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Hello. Sorry about this, just as a courtesy I am here to let you know this matter has been taken up, and is being handled, by someone both familiar with it and in a position to do something. Let us not cover this ground any further than you have already (unless you have a specific action you want to take). Nor ought we to pay attention to the editor in question - that is the advice. Djathink  imacowboy  04:54, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Uh, what the hell does that mean? Sorry, but I don't take kindly to this kind of cabal-talk. Please say whatever you want to say explicitly. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 08:15, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

This reported user is problematic in my opinion too! Read: User talk:TParis--Daneto (talk) 15:40, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Origin of the Serbs
Well, I do not think that I wrote that whole article. I started it with description "Transfered here from History of Serbia" and, as far as I remember, I wrote only some parts of it. Now, I understand that we have a problem because citations were not properly added into text, but only into this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Serbs#References However, what ever issues user:Ivan Štambuk might had with this article, the way in which he simply annihilated whole article is very wrong course of action:. I just restored that article to its last version, but I do not have enough time now to work more on its content. Perhaps user:Ivan Štambuk (or any other user) can post "citation needed" tags to parts of this article that he considers POV, unsourced (or what ever) and then somebody (me or anybody else) could later add proper quotations. Note that I edited this article some 4 years ago and that I still did not examined all changes of other users in these 4 years. I am sure that article now also might have some parts that would be seen as POV or unsourced by myself. When I find time, I will see to improve this article a bit. PANONIAN 11:09, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Croatian Coat of Arms
You can see in this video (at 02:19) the Croatian policemen as they replace the old flag of the Socialist Republic of Croatia with the new flag of the Republic of Croatia, before the Croatian parliament, in 1990. The new flag has the historical Croatian coat of arms, and that coat of arms has the first white square. Is that enough for a reference?--Calapone (talk) 17:26, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Here's the official video from the Croatian television. You can see the date, 20.06.1990 --Calapone (talk) 12:11, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Hm, how do I do that?--Calapone (talk) 12:34, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Is this good?--Calapone (talk) 13:29, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Reply
I replied to your question at User talk:APPER. --188.120.236.147 (talk) 22:33, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Main page appearance: Battle of Vukovar
This is a note to let the main editors of Battle of Vukovar know that the article will be appearing as today's featured article on November 18, 2011. You can view the TFA blurb at Today's featured article/November 18, 2011. If you prefer that the article appear as TFA on a different date, or not at all, please ask featured article director or his delegate, or start a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Today's featured article/requests. If the previous blurb needs tweaking, you might change it—following the instructions at Today's featured article/requests/instructions. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. The blurb as it stands now is below:



The Battle of Vukovar was an 87-day siege of the Croatian town of Vukovar by the Yugoslav People's Army (JNA) and paramilitaries from Serbia, between August–November 1991. In 1990, Croatian Serb separatists launched an armed uprising, supported by Serbian President Slobodan Milošević, and seized control of Serb-populated areas of Croatia. The JNA intervened in favour of the Croatian Serbs and launched an offensive in August 1991 against Croatian government-held territory. Vukovar was defended by around 1,800 lightly armed Croatian soldiers and civilian volunteers, against 36,000 JNA soldiers and Serbian paramilitaries equipped with heavy armour and artillery. When the town fell on 18 November 1991 after prolonged fighting, hundreds were massacred by Serb forces and the town's non-Serb population was expelled. Vukovar was peacefully reintegrated into Croatia in 1998 after the end of the Croatian War of Independence and has since been rebuilt, but deep ethnic divisions remain. Several Serb military and political officials, including Milošević, were later indicted and in some cases jailed for war crimes committed during and after the battle. (more...) UcuchaBot (talk) 00:03, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Origin of Croats
Perhaps we should restore this article too: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Theories_on_the_origin_of_Croats&oldid=217302023 Theory about Iranian origin of Croats is not elaborated anywhere in Wikipedia and it is well known subject. I also found an interesting source that elaborating it: http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/common_origin_croats_serbs_jats.php PANONIAN  14:48, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Politics of Croatia
Hi! I reworked the Politics of Croatia article, and I'm wondering if anything else should go there - the lead still needs reworking, and there are no images yet but I thought to ask if you could possibly have a look for other missing material, if any? Thanks!--Tomobe03 (talk) 23:21, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Jewish Filmfestival Zagreb → Zagreb Jewish Film Festival
Looks like an improper page move (article history is lost). Not sure how to fix it, could you take a look? GregorB (talk) 09:13, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Archiving Battle of Vukovar talk page?
Hi Joy, I won't be around tomorrow and my time today is severely limited, but could you possibly archive Talk:Battle of Vukovar in advance of tomorrow's Main Page appearance? It is getting rather long. Prioryman (talk) 13:29, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Nikola Tesla - help!!
Joy, I'm sorry about this. I need your help, even if you are not an administrator (because I do not know if yes or no). User DIREKTOR is over at the talk page attempting to start something with me - and he has done this before. It is at the bottom where we are discussing the date of a photo. I'm getting sick of him. Please, if you cannot help administratively, see what you can do there or find us someone to help! Djathink imacowboy  09:29, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Handling a disruptive editor
Hi! Could you please spare a minute and take a look at Talk:President of Croatia. Your feedback will be appreciated. Thanks.--Tomobe03 (talk) 10:09, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Hah, the brooch may yet warrant an article :) Thanks for the response.--Tomobe03 (talk) 10:16, 22 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi again! I'm sorry to bother you again about this, but legitimate and sourced edits seem to be reverted now. I'm not that familiar with this kind of situation. Any advice what to do?--Tomobe03 (talk) 22:14, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Mila Horvat
I thought I already took out the "well known" section here! How come you restored it and removed it again?! Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 16:51, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
 * See what happens now when you "undo" spectacular editors? ...Only joking! It's no problem. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 17:05, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Referencing narodne novine
Just saw an ISSN marker on Narodne Novine and thought to ask: Would it be appropriate to reference the NN using cite journal template instead of cite web or cite news? I'm not sure I'd like to change all the NN references posted earlier, but I'm asking for future reference (pun intended).--Tomobe03 (talk) 23:02, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Greater Yugoslavia
Do you support the new proposal for how to deal with this article at the bottom of the project page? As you haven't left notes there the past day you may not have known that an idea has developed which may be neutral in how we handle it. Regards. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 06:15, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Some comments
I left you some comments on "History of Croatia". Do you prefer I write to this talk page or on the page of the last post? --Silvio1973 (talk) 11:58, 27 November 2011 (UTC)--Silvio1973 (talk) 11:58, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

eNotes
Hi! Is eNotes a reliable source per WP:RS?--Tomobe03 (talk) 22:48, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

from Silvio1973
Joy, I speak to you with big respect. I can see that you have a lot of posts on en:wiki. You do not need to "placate" me. I just point that "Healthcare in Croatia" is copy/paste of another page. I also point that all contributors to these pages are of Croatian origins/nationality. The two affirmations are facts. I hope we will find a fair, healthy way to confront our opinions. --Silvio1973 (talk) 08:42, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Giorgio da Sebenico
I'm about to be travelling for a few days, & frankly tend to lose patience with all the twists and turns of the edit history, but if you need support for edits here, just let me know on my talk. Johnbod (talk) 15:34, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Perućica
There are some things to change in Perućica article.--Palapa (talk) 00:10, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Stojan Janković
On Stojan Jankovic I had added some cn tags concerning the composition of his army. Zoupan removed the tags with no explanation. About a month ago he was making the same edits so I reported him and he got blocked for 10 days(+ARBMAC note), but now instead of finding the sources he again removed the tags.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 11:57, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Djerzelez
Thanks for participation in discussion about renaming Gjergj Elez article and sorry for not replying on your question. The simple reason why I did not reply to your question was that I did not manage to find enough English language encyclopedias with texts about him. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 23:42, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Ćirilica
Bok jel možeš pogledat ove doprinose stavlja masovno ćirilične nazive na naselja u hrvatskoj mislim da to nema smisla.--Sokac121 (talk) 13:59, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Problem
Hello, Joy. I'm having a certain problem with the user DIREKTOR. He's calling the first flag of Croatia (about which you and I had a talk a month ago) the "Ustaša nonsense", he's removing that flag and the coat of arms from that flag from the following articles (List of Croatian flags, Symbols of Croatia, Socialist Republic of Croatia, Coat of arms of Croatia, and Croatian Chilean). I have posted a reference for that flag and for that coat of arms (with your help), and now he's removing the reference too, as you can see here. Should I report him to administrators?--Calapone (talk) 08:50, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I suppose the opposition's contention is that the clip is not original - no, he never actually disputed the clip, he just removed my Coat of Arms and replaced it with his, and left the reference for my coat of arms behind his coat of arms. That has no sense at all. But after I spoke with him, he started to remove the reference too.--Calapone (talk) 10:46, 14 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Here's the link to the screenshots of that video on the Croatian Police Association web page. There is no doubt about the authenticy of that video, because it is taken from TV kalendar of the Croatian Radiotelevision. So, I don't know why is Direktor making problems about so simple fact. The first Coat of Arms of the Republic of Croatia had the first white square, and yet, Direktor is trying to change history.---Calapone (talk) 12:33, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Images from Hrvatski Sabor
Joy, there is a deletion review discussion going on about a non-free image of Zlatko Tomčić, and there is some ambiguity about language from the webpage of the Croatian Parliament that admits the use of materials without special permission. Please comment if you wish, thank you! – MirancheT C 16:33, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Giorgio da Sebenico
On my books of Art they are reported as being the same person. I gave a look to the talk on Talk:Giorgio da Sebenico (honestly disappointing, I wonder if these users mind really something about art) and I must confess that it's a true mess. Also, it is simply not serious that 80% of the article is about the dispute on the name and only 20% about his masterpieces. And everywhere in the article there are translation in the two languages of names and places... honestly the article should be written again from scrap. It should be an article on art and it is looks indeed as a street fight. What some users should understand is that in the XIV century parents did not go to the Town Hall to register their children! Only people with noble origins were keen in transmitting the family name to their children. Most of them were called "Name" + From (da) "somewhere". Concerning Giorgio Orsini (Alias Giorgio da Sebenico) this name was given to the artist when he was already dead. My proposal is to report in the text (briefly) this fact but to use for the rest of the article the name Giorgio da Sebenico. Side comment : in Italy it is quite known as Orsini. --Silvio1973 (talk) 14:31, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Zadar
I am trying to add some information concerning the history of Zadar in the XIX century but I find firm opposition from one user. I tried to round as much as possible the modification (Talk:Zadar, Zadar) to get to a consensus but without any success. I do not want to suck you in the querrel, but I need the advice of an admin to understand where is the issue. Unfortunately we are only two to debate around the matter, perhaps we both need external challanging. Thanks for your help! --Silvio1973 (talk) 22:49, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification
Hi. In your recent article edits, you've added some links to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.


 * Sunja, Sisak-Moslavina County (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
 * added links to Vedro Polje and Novoselci


 * Pakra (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
 * added a link to Bučje

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 11:33, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Re: Venetian & Italian cultural presence in Dalmatia‎
Yeah, I knew it was a recreation, and that there was something fishy about that editor but I couldn't remember the details, so I hoped someone will notice it. Settled, then. GregorB (talk) 01:33, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

RFC/U Draft on DIREKTOR
Given the recent discussion on AN/I, thought I would let you know that I've started a draft RFC/U at User:Nuujinn/direktor_rfcu. --Nuujinn (talk) 00:40, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

New ministries
Hi! I started a new government of Croatia template in my sandbox, but it appears that quite a few ministries will split or rearrange their scope of authority starting today. Should I use the template as prepared for now - some ministry articles are linked twice, and some are not linked at all, and allow those to be reorganized later or is there another preferred/customary way to handle this type of situation?--Tomobe03 (talk) 10:22, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification
Hi. When you recently edited Jelsa, Croatia, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Poljica and Zavala (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 10:29, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Merry Xmas
<div style="border-style:solid; border-color:green; background-color:white; font color:red; border-width:2px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">

--Tomobe03 (talk) is wishing you a Merry Christmas and a happy new year!

Speedy deletion nomination of Hacked by:jolicnikola


Please refrain from introducing inappropriate pages, such as Hacked by:jolicnikola, to Wikipedia. Doing so is not in accordance with our policies. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. -- MST <font color="#964B00">☆  R   (Merry Christmas!) 12:43, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Merry Christmas
Have a merry Christmas and a happy New Year! All the best! <span style='font-family: Georgia, serif; color:#639;'> Timbouctou (<span style='font-family: Georgia, serif; color:#639;'> talk ) 12:46, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Fair use image of a referendum poster
Hi! I'm working on expanding and referencing the Croatian independence referendum, 1991 article, and I'm struggling to find any relevant images. I saw a poster image on Croatian wiki article, but since it's not available on the Commons, I'm wondering whether it would be alright to upload it to en wiki and use it as a fair-use image. What do you think?--Tomobe03 (talk) 20:55, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, this is it. Should I upload that file to the commons then?--Tomobe03 (talk) 23:18, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * It appears that the poster was used in some sort of official capacity - as suggested by this article, but I have no direct confirmation of that.--Tomobe03 (talk) 11:12, 28 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I found the solution - at least it seems that way to me: The poster is exempt from copyright protection by Article 8 Section 2.1 of the Copyright Act, and the Commons even have the Template:PD-Croatia-exempt for such files. I'm thinking about changing the license and moving the file to the commons...--Tomobe03 (talk) 15:05, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually no. The legislation provides that a piece of material which would otherwise be copyrighted is in fact exempt if distributed by the government, regardless of the author.--Tomobe03 (talk) 21:25, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I found this instance of use and description by a government founded institution, that leaves hardly any room for doubt regarding use of the poster.--Tomobe03 (talk) 22:38, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You're right, asking is simple and definitive. You're also right there are only the two possible origins of the poster given its proliferation. In both cases someone affiliated with the HDZ commissioned/made it and knowing a thing or two how things get funded by the government I'd say it is a safe bet the government budget paid for it. Still, I prefer asking to cover all bases.--Tomobe03 (talk) 23:08, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Notice of discussion at the Administrators' Noticeboard
Hi Joy. There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 05:58, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

File:Europe-southern-countries.png needs authorship information
Dear uploader:

The media file you uploaded as File:Europe-southern-countries.png appears to be missing information as to its authorship (and or source), or if you did provide such information, it is confusing for others trying to make use of the image.

It would be appreciated if you would consider updating the file description page, to make the authorship of the media clearer.

Although some images may not need author information in obvious cases, (such where an applicable source is provided), authorship information aids users of the image, and helps ensure that appropriate credit is given (a requirement of some licenses).


 * If you created this media yourself, please consider explicitly including your user name, for which: will produce an appropriate expansion, or use the own template.


 * If this is an old image, for which the authorship is unknown or impossible to determine, please indicate this on the file description page.

If you have any questions please see Help:File page. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 13:08, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Zagreb
Thank you for changing the wording in the opening paragraph on the Zagreb page to more clearing make the point of what the population figures meant. However, is there anyway to do this in the infobox? It still reads "city" for what you said is the settlement population, and "urban" for what is the administrative boundaries/municipality populations. "Urban" should probably be the wording in place of "city", and "city" should be in the place of "urban." --Criticalthinker (talk) 23:55, 31 December 2011 (UTC)