User talk:Joy/Archive/2023

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Happy New Year, Joy!


Happy New Year! Joy, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.

— Moops  ⋠ T ⋡ 03:21, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

— Moops  ⋠ T ⋡ 03:21, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for January 10
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Waard
Thanks for fixing this! I tried various variations of "something" "nl" "something else" "Waard" "end something" but missed the right one, and gave up and copied the URL - just, unfortunately, picked the wrong tab to find the URL! Pam D  12:10, 18 January 2023 (UTC)


 * No worries :) --Joy (talk) 14:11, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Honeymoon Lane
Thanks for your RM comment. You're right that the non-existence of the musical article doesn't make the film WP:PT, but so easy to create the musical stub I did so. but really shouldn't have to. These kind of moves are exactly what WP:PT exists to prevent. Thanks again. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:08, 21 January 2023 (UTC)


 * @In ictu oculi In general, I often observe WP:PTOPIC not being applied judiciously, I seem to see so many proposals where folks are overzealous in trying to short-circuit navigation, even when we have no real reason to think that the average reader is having trouble with less trivial navigation methods. Maybe we'll need to make an effort to temper the text of the guideline in order to clarify that. --Joy (talk) 13:12, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Grand Principality of Serbia
See the discussion and initiative at Talk:Grand Principality of Serbia. Also, please, warn Theonewithreason to stop calling me Crovata. That's not in good faith. Thanks Miki Filigranski (talk) 10:30, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Smiljan (given name)
I note you reverted my edit on Smilja. In the "see also" there is a link to Smiljan (given name) which (as we do not have an article for it) redirects to the disambiguation page Smiljan. This is about places rather than peoples names.&mdash; Rod talk 18:50, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the response. If a link to the dab page is the best option then this should be formatted per WP:INTDAB (ading (disambiguation) to the link otherwise it will still show up in the lists of links which need to be disambiguated and someone else will come along and do what I did.&mdash; Rod talk 19:27, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 * You could do Smiljan (given name) which would take them to the same place, with no extra text for the reader. If there was a page at Smiljan (given name) obviously this wouldn't be needed, so it might be better just to create that.&mdash; Rod talk 20:19, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Maël
Hello, I tried to answer your questions at Talk:Maël. Thanks, 121.127.212.32 (talk) 13:09, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

User talk:SapientiaLinguistica
The editor continues to make disruptive WP:POINT edits and personal attacks on me and scientists. Please warn first the editor to stop doing it, if not, in the next 24h don't have a choice but to report them to the admin's noticeboard. Miki Filigranski (talk) 23:07, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

A disruptive editor
Hello,

Could you keep an eye on 91.148.81.82, as he continues to vandalize both History of Croatia and List of 2022 FIFA World Cup controversies by removing well referenced claims. Thanks.

Franjo Tahy (talk) 16:56, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Opinion on 25 kuna coin as "rarely used" in infobox
Hi Joy, since I am familiar with your work on articles about Croatian currencies (and you probably with mine aswell), I would like to hear your opinion on something: What do you think about the infobox in article about the Croatian kuna mentioning the 25 kuna coin as "rarely used"? The question seems at first very simple and something that could without any doubt be answered with "yes", since it was indeed legal tender and you could have paid with them. However, in fact it was never used for any non-numismatics related purposes and I would go even so far to claim that it was not even really created as a coin for everyday payment.

Bez obzira na osobna iskustva (WP:NOR), smatraš li da ima smisla spominjati prigodni numizmatički novac u infookviru?

Best regards, Koreanovsky (talk) 19:25, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Fascist as an insult Article
Came across this edit and am curious your take. Would calling someone an Ustasa count as calling them a facsit essentially? From the quick look, it seemed like the section was sourced based on the brief overview. Seems like a misunderstanding or different interpretations by various editors and ips. Thanks. OyMosby (talk) 18:03, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

Dubrovnik
Joy, your edit here of reverting because the IP seemed to possibly be a banned users doesn’t make sense for justifying the counter to the reasoning behind the edit. It does seem weird to bury the fact that it is one of the historical regions as it was even though for long periods it remaind a separate state. I agree, I don’t get the distancing of its relation. I can see the MariCro user has a perennial account dedicated to this which seems soapboxing as well. Heck they even removed Croatia from the lead and said it was located Wast of the Adriatic as if it’s own country. Seems weird. Why placate them? Between that and Italian Nationalist users doing the same, it been tiring over the years. :/ Stating “historical region” by itself doesn’t make sense as historical to what? For other countries, regions are stated as being part of that country. The details left to the article. I think it works best that way. OyMosby (talk) 00:01, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 7
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Bosnia and Herzogivna
Hello,

I saw that you changed the Bosnian language to Serbo-Croatian. May I know the reason why? WikiUserFromTheBalkans (talk) 16:37, 15 April 2023 (UTC)


 * I just saw your message on my page. WikiUserFromTheBalkans (talk) 16:38, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Slavs in Lower Pannonia
Hi, I was told that creating citations without using them as references wastes resources. It also raises harv:warning messages. Also, your reversion changed Sedov|2013 to Sedov|1995, so the links no longer work. (Only the date is recognized in the template, not the orig-date, although there are work-arounds with sfnref if you don't want to see 2013 displayed.) Andy02124 (talk) 20:46, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Hrvatsko kulturno vijeće
Hi Joy! A new page was created on the English wikipedia a few days ago. If you can edit it properly, see how it looks here [] and this is how it looks on the Croatian wikipedia,[]. I looked at the sources from the newspapers that were put there and nothing says what is written there on the page. I didn't want to touch anything, because I'm not very good at editing wikipedia. I hope you will edit that page and fix it. Greeting 78.0.115.249 (talk) 04:57, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Kajkavian
Hello, can you join the conversation on the Kajkavian topic [] ,and here are the latest changes to the site[] Thanks. 93.138.3.122 (talk) 08:31, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

List of Glagolitic manuscripts
Did you find any broken links? If so, which ones? We are in the process of moving over to permalinks and more stable URLs, so any help would be appreciated. Thank you! Ivan (talk) 16:29, 10 May 2023 (UTC)


 * @Renamed user Inatan They're probably not broken now, but they have no associated metadata, so if the links get broken, we get very little verifiability out of them. Please see WP:CS. --Joy (talk) 17:06, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Since you are here, would you mind filling out the for the alvin-portal.org and HAZU references? Ivan (talk) 17:16, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

2021 population data
Hi Joy. I have HR population data → article title → Qid mapping from hrwiki and it shouldn't take me long to set up a bot to update the Croatian settlements infoboxes on here (upon approval). But one thing is confusing: Rijeka, Split, Zagreb use different sets of population_ params in their infoboxes. HR census data only contain "naselje" and "grad/općina" values. Do you think those should be population_urban and population_total of Infobox settlement? In Rijeka we now have City:108,622 and Urban:191,293, but what does the latter number represent? What do you think of this whole idea? Thnx, Ponor (talk) 14:50, 12 May 2023 (UTC)


 * @Ponor Nice to hear. We should probably draft Croatian Census 2021 just like we have for 2011 and 2001 so that when you do a bot change it uses a common template. Those city infoboxes are notorious for being arbitrary, I think I left some with population_urban matching the city settlement and population_total matching the total city administrative area population, and at the same time I know that there are in practice huge variations (there are cities with a handful of adjoined villages and some with 20+). We should probably leave efn explanatory footnotes in all city infoboxes whatever we put in there. --Joy (talk) 18:21, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Croatian Census 2021 is going to be a very simple one – a link to the xlsx file from my first posting that they said this time would be a permalink. I don't think there will be separate html pages with this data like before. Okay, I'll prepare everything for these two params, in which case the bot should blank the population_blank ones. Though I see it's quite a mess out there, e.g. Supetar should not have population_metro but population_total. My first run should be current data collection&analysis, I'll let you know how that goes. Ponor (talk) 19:02, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Hey Joy. My bot is pretty much ready. Before the nice people at WP:BOTREQ approve it, they'll probably want to see if there's enough consensus for the type of edits I want to make in 3000+ existing HR settlement articles. I've started a discussion at WikiProject Croatia. I don't know how active that community is, but please let's continue our discussion there. Thanks, Ponor (talk) 01:17, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Hej, Joy. Studenci, Croatia: delete or leave? See Studenci. Thnx. Ponor (talk) 14:43, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @Ponor aha, this is where can use R from incomplete disambiguation, I did that just now. --Joy (talk) 18:08, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Kosovo note
Hi Joy, I see that you've been removing the Template:Kosovo-note on a few articles, do you mind leaving the reason in the edit summary such as "per the result of the discussion" so editors can understand. Thank you Sculpordwarfprunesea (talk) 14:44, 14 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Sure. --Joy (talk) 15:04, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

CC of the 12th Congress
First, thank you very much for your edits. I don't know any "Yugoslav" language, so I need all the help I can get :P

Second, could you help me with two things? One very easy and more complex. First, can you scavenge the list and check if I categorised all the members by sex correctly? I find it challenging to decipher female names since I don't know the language! Last, there are eight members I can't find any birth information on, and there are 37 other individuals I can't find any information on the year of death. Some of them may be alive, but others are probably dead. I mean most people born in the 1930s or earlier are dead or dying at this point.

Of course, I understand if you have other things to do. This is Wikipedia, and you edit what one deems fun. But if you have the time, thank you in advance :) TheUzbek (talk) 08:57, 25 May 2023 (UTC)


 * @TheUzbek they're not actually called "Yugoslav" languages, rather South Slavic languages :) it'll take me a while to go through the entire list. Female names can indeed be a problem esp. as there are also unisex names and in that case one has to actually check the specific person. In general, you might want to ask for this at WT:YU where there could well be people interested in helping with the topic. --Joy (talk) 08:10, 26 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Pardon, meant to offence! Just my ignorance, I'll use South Slavic languages from now on :)


 * Aha, that makes sense! I thought, when I began editing these lists, that it would be similar to the East Slavic languages of the Soviet Union but alas I was entirely wrong!


 * That was a good suggestion; I'll ask there.


 * What surprised me regarding the LCY is 1) the lack of English language sources and 2) the apparent non-existence of digitalised LCY documents. In contrast, it is easy to stumble on CPSU documents in the internet in the Russian, Ukrainian and Byelorussian languages. Of course, the Soviet Union collapsed more peacefully and the actual war was postponed to 2022 unlike the Yugoslav wars.


 * Anyhow, thanks for your help :) --TheUzbek (talk) 09:01, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 2
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CS1 error on A1 (Croatia)
Hello, I'm Qwerfjkl (bot). I have automatically detected that this edit performed by you, on the page A1 (Croatia), may have introduced referencing errors. They are as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:Qwerfjkl/Botpreload&editintro=User:Qwerfjkl/boteditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:Qwerfjkl&preloadtitle=Qwerfjkl%20(bot)%20–%20Qwerfjkl_(bot)&section=new report it to my operator]. Thanks, Qwerfjkl (bot) (talk) 21:05, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
 * A "bare URL and missing title" error. References show this error when they do not have a title. Please edit the article to add the appropriate title parameter to the reference. ([//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=A1_(Croatia)&action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+reference+error+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3AQwerfjkl%20(bot)%7CQwerfjkl%20(bot)%5D%5D Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:Qwerfjkl%20(bot)/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F1162551467%7CA1%20(Croatia)%5D%5D Ask for help])

Dalmatia Historical Region
Hi Joy, hope you are doing well. There seems to be some pov pushing going on by a single purpose account. Looking at other Hisotrical Region articles like Moravia, it lists historical regions of Czechia. It doesn’t “restrict scope” as the term Historical Region literally means region that transcend modern borders. The user claims “ especially for a region which (let's be real) was part of Croatia for a relatively short time in its long history.” which is clearly pov pushing and not academically correct. I don’t think. It ignores Mediaeval history. They also proposed this edit with no consensus.

Dalmatia today is literally in Croatia. I don’t see why it controversial. Also why other Historical regions of said country also mentioned at the top like other articles.

I came to you as you undid this IP edit believing they had some agenda but they simply reinstated a version you yourself reverted to before. I could say the same about the other participant as well. I returned the original wording as it doesn’t claim Dalmatia as a Croatian exclusive land. I’m not sure why the same edit is fine now but not before as in both edits Dalmatia being one of four regions of Croatia is being buried despite today it being a region alomg with the rest.

What are your thoughts? Do you deem their version more logical and the original too Croatian nationalist pov? My concern is it seems double standard compared to the Czech historical regions articles. You had reverted them a year ago when they did the same edit and I agree it does only have a purpose of burying the lead. You were right to call it an “irredentist argument”. I agree. They will likely ince again push their version and refuse using the talk page as you originally suggested. OyMosby (talk) 22:13, 29 June 2023 (


 * I believe I addressed this at Talk:Dalmatia. You edited this post 9 times on my user talk, and this generated 9 email notifications to me :) please follow up over there instead of here. --Joy (talk) 10:26, 1 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Not exactly the issue of them denying considerable historical association and determination to move away it being a region in Croatia at the top but instead the very bottom (burying the lead). They seemed to have stopped though so seems ok for now. Sorry about the multiple edits though. I wasn’t aware each edit gives you a notification. Thought only making a new section does. Cheers OyMosby (talk) 16:26, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Nostratic
Why are you promoting this fringe theory? Its own page says it's widely rejected. If you find evidence that it is widely accepted, then please add that evidence on Nostratic languages. Then it would make sense to include Nostratic theories on other pages, such as Župa. 173.206.79.106 (talk) 14:54, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Vandalism from this user has been going on for years
Please pay attention to this user [], his vandalism has been going on for years. This is the same user blocked on one year which will expire soon [] but he returns again from another ip address. I hope some administrators will block him.89.172.84.249 (talk) 10:56, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Am I being heavy handed?
Hi Joy just wanted to check. This addition on July 4th to the Bosnian Genocide does it seem warranted? Would people confuse the Bosnian Genocide witth the Genocide of Serbs in Croatia during WWII? Should Genocide of Bosniaks and Croats during WWII also be mentioned? There hadn’t been a description above the article at all and I removed it as I interpreted it as a new jumbled name account making nationalist point according edits. They keep adding Cyrillic to various Croatian regions as well which I guess makes sense being a minority language set? Or perhaps a pov that these are Serbian lands? The user even changed Ratko Mladic to being birn in “Kingdom of Yugoslavia occupied by NDH”, however NDH was already an occupied territory by thr Axis. I question their goals on wikipedia. Wikipedia has made be quite a cynic over the years. I trus your judgement so I came to you for a second opinion. OyMosby (talk) 16:36, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Ivan Gundulic is Croatian
My friend, Ivan Gundulic has been proven to be Croatian and not Serbian. Due to the grand hatred of Croats in the 1990s as of his Wikipedia Page, Serbs started to claim Gundulic as theirs. Which is definitley pathetic and propaganda. Bawix (talk) 19:29, 23 July 2023 (UTC)


 * @Bawix none of this has any bearing on the fact that editing articles with search&replace is simply not useful. --Joy (talk) 07:11, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Email about a block
I have just found an email you sent me some time ago in my spam folder. It was an IP block which I thought was not anon-only, and you said it was. I have now checked, and you were right. I don't know how I made that mistake. JBW (talk) 13:16, 25 July 2023 (UTC)


 * @JBW no worries, it took me a while to double check that myself :) --Joy (talk) 13:58, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Category:Use of the term Illyrian in modern history has been nominated for deletion
Category:Use of the term Illyrian in modern history has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:40, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

NikolaZrinski and ZidarZ
I received a bunch of notifications where the editor mentions me. The self-called (non-)expert new editor is editing walls of text and comments based on outdated or unreliable sources on articles and talk pages, but not being constructive and making personal attacks on other editors (myself and others) for reverting or making any comments against their liking. Reading all the notifications was confusing, I reverted at Nikola IV Zrinski, Siege of Szigetvár, and Talk:Siege of Szigetvár reverting edits by editor NikolaZrinski. They alike editor ZidarZ (who added outdated sources in the "Further reading") based their edits and talk page comments on same outdated sources, have same commentary style and wording, arguments, date of editing. NikolaZrinski edited for example Talk: Šubić family, yet ZidarZ with whom I did not have any correspondence and who did not edit or comment anything about Šubic or Zrinski family and the siege of Szigetvar on articles or talk pages, suddenly shows big fascination and concern about the Šubic and Zrinski families (also claims to be an expert on the Zrinski family), instead of NikolaZrinski, ZidarZ went to report me and comment about Šubic family and again on their Talk page, stating "''because he told me that for stuff I try to write about Nikola Zrinski and events during the 1500s that books written in the 1500s and 1600s lack credibility because these primary sources are "outdated sources". To me, that is absurd''", I said that to editor NikolaZrinski not to ZidarZ, NikolaZrinski also said the same "Miki Filigranski's deletion based on the comment “outdated soures” is absurd". Miki Filigranski (talk) 00:04, 26 September 2023 (UTC)


 * @Miki Filigranski If you suspect a violation of the WP:SOCK policy, please file a WP:SPI report. --Joy (talk) 11:33, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Seasons in Federal Republic of Yugoslavia basketball


A tag has been placed on Category:Seasons in Federal Republic of Yugoslavia basketball indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and removing the speedy deletion tag. Liz Read! Talk! 21:29, 21 November 2023 (UTC)


 * @Liz as I mentioned in the edit summary, this was a draft in support of an ongoing CFD. Since CFDs last for a week anyway, is it safe to just leave it tagged as is? --Joy (talk) 21:38, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Yugoslavia categories
What happened is that other subcategories (establishments in/disestablishments in) were prematurely moved into the new "YYYY in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia" categories while they were still redlinks, so they all showed up at Special:WantedCategories as non-empty redlinked categories — and when I checked the "YYYY in Yugoslavia" categories, none of them were tagged with the CFD template at all, because those tags appear to have been already removed from the categories in preparation for the renames that hadn't happened before this showed up at WantedCategories, so I had no knowledge of any CFD discussions relating to the base YYYY categories at all because the CFD tags weren't present when I looked at them.

But redlinked categories are strictly forbidden in all circumstances, which means that I couldn't just leave them there as redlinks — anytime redlinked categories are present on an article or another category, they always have to be either created or deleted immediately, and cannot be left sitting red. So, since the "YYYY in the FRY" categories were template-generated redlinks that I couldn't remove or edit, and the "YYYY in Yugoslavia" categories didn't have any tags on them to indicate that they had been subject to any CFD discussions, my only option was to redirect the redlinks to the existing categories.

If there actually are real CFD renames involved, then it's quite easy to fix by doing the indicated category moves — but they have to be done, and stuff can't be left sitting in the redlinks in advance of the moves being done, and since the categories to be moved weren't tagged I had no way of knowing that CFD had already weighed in on them. So I'm sorry for the confusion, but it's easy to fix if you just get the category moves done. Bearcat (talk) 14:05, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Tomasevich
The infobox qualifies as supporting material under Milhist. See if you can find a photo of him… Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 14:13, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
 * See WP:MH/B. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 14:17, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure, but that seems kind of basic these days :) --Joy (talk) 14:19, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

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"weird pipe link" ??
On the page Time_(disambiguation) you cancelled my addition, on the ground that it would be an "unexplained addition of a weird pipe link".

It seems to me quite arbitrary. Where should I have explained this addition before ? Should I have added some references ? It is not a common practice in disambiguation pages. So please explain me.

Here are some links proving that a Time magazine existed in England. 

Varlin (talk) 14:41, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 10
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Neuilly
Hi, thank you for your contributions. I believe that Neuilly as a primary redirect works best, and object to your recent move of the disambiguation page to that title.

I'm not exactly sure, however, if this should be discussed by WP:RM or WP:RFD. If the latter, the back should be moved back first, I'd imagine. Your thoughts? 162 etc. (talk) 21:36, 18 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @162 etc. since we last discussed this in a WP:RM, and it would involve moving the content of the disambiguation page over, you should just go with another move request over there so whoever wants to participate can easily see the context. --Joy (talk) 21:38, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
 * RM has been opened. 162 etc. (talk) 21:54, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 19
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Nomination of Antė for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Antė is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Antė until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished. AllTheUsernamesAreInUse (talk) 05:35, 30 December 2023 (UTC)