User talk:Jrg1000

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Roger Bansemer (July 28)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Chris troutman was:

The comment the reviewer left was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


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Chris Troutman ( talk ) 20:41, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi Chris. Thank you for reviewing. I agree with WP:NACTOR and there is no statement that he is an actor in the draft. In fact if you do a Google search the Google info box says "Actor" which he is not. In the TV series he is himself (i.e. not acting). This article was scant when I picked it up and was lacking secondary independent sources. Looking back to April 1 it had only two at the last declined submission. There are literally hundreds of secondary independent articles to choose from. I would have declined the article as well. Since picking it up, the ones I've added are not mere mentions, rather articles with Bansemer as the focus. So although this declined submission says it is lacking in secondary sources I think that's a template statement as the current 34 references exceeds the sum total for many wiki articles.

As for WP:BIO there is this qualification: "The person's work (or works) has: (a) become a significant monument, (b) been a substantial part of a significant exhibition, (c) won significant critical attention, or (d) been represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums."

Let me call out the "Spyglass So Long" article as a start (there are a number of articles related to this). In 1978 Bansemer had painted a 100 foot tall mural on the side of the Spyglass Hotel on Clearwater Beach, Florida. In a 1978 article it stated people traveling to the beach cross a causeway and literally thousands of people every day started seeing this mural on the drive. It stuck out in the landscape and it became an instant landmark as well as iconic of Clearwater Beach. This mural was seen by millions over the 30 years (significant monument with significant critical attention). In 2008 the building was demolished and an article written in retrospect which summarizes for us the "critical attention". It goes "So long to artist, familiar sight. Roger Bansemer and his landmark mural soon will be gone from Clearwater. Home-grown artist Roger Bansemer is leaving town, and so too, is one of his most-viewed paintings. But he's not taking it with him.  It's going courtesy of a wrecking ball. Back on Nov. 14, 1978, Bansemer completed a 100-foot-tall murla of a hot-air balloon on the side of the old nine-story Spyglass Resort on Clearwater Beach.  In the painting, a bearded captain sits in the balloon's basket, navigating with the help of a sextant.  Seagulls hover above.  An anchor swings below.  Clearwater leaders now want developers of the Kiran Grand Resort & Spy to tear down the vacant hotel building to make way for their new project. The mural is Bansemer's biggest work ever and probably has been seen by more people - perhaps millions - than anything else he's done in a long and distinguished career."

Bansemer also qualifies under "been represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums." There are references I've provided for that as well. So I think your comment " this draft attempts to make Roger look notable by being around famous people or projects, which isn't how Wikipedia sees notability" is where the discussion is at. Absolutely, agree with you. You cannot make someone notable by who they know, they must stand on their own merit. I think the disconnect may be that I provided what I thought were entertaining images of the artist with others to paint an overall picture of Roger Bansemer. Would it be better if I include an image of his landmark mural? Would that help change the appearance? I was never trying to establish notability based on his connections with other notable people, though I can see where by the images I included that would become the impression.

Jrg1000 (talk) 04:11, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Please be advised that a wall of text is not the best way to argue with me. I performed a review of your draft and now consider the matter done. If you wish to resubmit your draft after improving it, another reviewer might get to it. We have a backlog drive on draft articles through July, so the sooner you re-submit the better chance you'll get a prompt re-examination. Beyond the promotional language and external links in the body, the article does not make plain the case for notability. If the subject has painted murals but not for museums, how can the subject fulfill the requirements of NARTIST? I took a second look through and saw nothing about permanent exhibitions in multiple notable institutions. If none of his works (except the TV show) are notable, how could he meet the requirements for NARTIST? I must emphasize that if millions of people saw a mural, maybe you'd write an article about the mural with supporting newspaper citations and then you could make a case for the artist, himself. You might rewrite to make your case perfectly clear. Perhaps you're too interested in your own prose? Please clear up your draft so we can understand what case you're making, because all I see is promotional dreck replete with name-dropping. Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 21:00, 30 July 2021 (UTC)