User talk:Jumpster

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Notability of Marco Mann
Your argument of "Go around improving instead of deletion articles about your fellow Egyptians" doesnt stand, and even though you chose to argue an incompletely irrelevant line than the original point, I am going to give you a chance to convince me not to put that article for WP:AFD, convince me he is suitable according to WP:BIO using sources other than his own website or that he is a moderator for a yahoo group and I will drop the subject. --Shipmaster 11:29, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Jumpster, I am still not convinced that this artist satisfies WP:BIO, A solo exhibition in the Sidi Gaber center which is known for its lax criteria for exhibitors or mention among 30 others in a local magazine doesnt qualify as "significant" (A solo exhibition in Bib. Alex. would have convinced me right away of course), And being a moderator of a yahoo group with less than 100 message activity per month doesn't make him notable as an artist. If you want, I can make a formal inquisition at the Bib. Alex, the Arabic wikipedia has very strong ties with the Bibliotheca, but I am guessing the artist has not had any exhibitions related to the Bib. Alex., also, making the claim that such a large entity as the Bibliotheca is memeber of the group is a bit bold, my guess is that the person you mentioned is the member not the Bibliotheca itself, again, I can verify that formally if you want with the Bibliotheca.
 * Not catching the irony in your argument, I think the article evaded deletion for so long because people assumed he is notable in Egypt, that's why I specifically noted where I live, also not sure what you want me to do? Ignore WP:BIO for a fellow countryman? I am sure that's not what you wanted to convey. You are correct that it caught my attention when it was posted in the Arabic wikipedia, but there it was posted for AfD as soon as it was created (not by me). It has nothing to do with the name or beliefs of the artist btw, I don't have anything personal against him and I don't know him personally, I am just following WP:BIO. If you don't have any more sources to backup his notability I will go ahead and put it on WP:AFD and let the community decide, also, I will move this discussion to the article's talk page to make it easier to follow, I hope we can cooperate more in the future on Egyptian-related articles, or you can join us on the Arabic wikipedia which really needs all the help it can get.--Shipmaster 12:49, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * You are putting words in my mouth (and making a whole rhetoric out of it about politics and stuff I dont know how on earth would get crammed into an argument about article notability), I never said BA listing is needed for notability, you brought the BA as a reference not I, so I was simply discussing how the BA can be used as a reference, and you contradict yourself by listing your only sources for the artist notability being inside Egypt then saying he is only known internationally?! In the end, why are you so riled up? I am just putting the article up for community discussion of deletion, if I am wrong the community will not buy into my argument, no? If you still need to go at such a tirade to discuss it, just do so on the AfD request,but be prepared to backup your claims with sources this time not just words, I will notify you when I put it. --Shipmaster 16:46, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Um also, to set the record straight, strong ties is not equal to under control of, Alexandrian wikipedians are cooperating with the library to make a bid for organizing wikimania 2008, there are around 5-10 Alexandrian wikipedians out of 50,000 users or so on ar.wiki, BA doesnt hold any control over anything done in the wiki, dont twist my words. --Shipmaster 16:49, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

RE Marco Mann
Sorry, but the evidence you provided at the AfD isn't enough to meet the primary notability criterion of WP:BIO, which is that there must be evidence of multiple non-trivial coverage in reliable independent sources. Although I know very little about the world of art, you haven't provided any evidence to show that this person passes the criterion given above; the links you provided are to Yahoo groups, which do not count as reliable sources for the purposes of Wikipedia. I'm not saying he's necessarily non-notable; show me relevant published sources (mentions in art journals, reviews, etc) and I will change my mind. Wal ton  Vivat Regina!  17:16, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Although you quote WP:BIO correctly, you need to back up your statements with reliable sources. It's no good saying that he's "made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in his specific field", for instance, without providing sources to back this up. The links you've provided are all to groups.yahoo.com, which does not count as a reliable source. (See WP:ATT and WP:RS for more information on sources.) I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. As I said, I know next to nothing about art; I'm also not Egyptian and have never visited Egypt, so I have no bias or preconceived ideas on this issue. But to prevent the article getting deleted, you need to back up what you say with sources. Wal  ton  Vivat Regina!  18:53, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I know you are trying to be objective. Dont worry, I am not being defensive, but dealing with this objectively as well. But the International Group for Art and Culture is a recognized contribution, and an eduring historic record in the world of Art.. please take a good look at the link I sent to the message archives and dont be too hasty to judge yahoo groups as something trivial or game-like, because this is the same mistake people make about wikipedia (and some even about the whole internet) .. You will find that the IGAC is a valuable ad indispensible resource for most people in the Art field with tens of new members joining every week from every part of the world; (please check and see for yourself) with this being the case and with all internet activities being archived and accessile to all future generations, could you tell me how This is not widely recognized (4000 members worldwide) and not enduring? .. you said you are not related to Art, but if you were, chances are you would already be very Familiar with Marco Mann and the IGAC. I not only want you to see this article in its true perspective and as result chang your vote, I also want to also help me convince others as well to vote to keep Marco Mann. With Respect, Jumpster 19:16, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The nominator is an IT specialist and is not related to Art at all, so how could he nominate an article for deletion that is about something he knows nothing about!! except if it was in bad faith? And why would he pursue it so vehemently unless he knows the artist personally in real life and has a bone to pick with him?? he mentioned that if the Artist had exhibited in the Alexandria Library he would have considered him notable and removed the AFD template!!! which I find very strange? and then it became evident that he is working in close ties with the Library (possibly an employee there) .. so what is that? extortion? you either exhibit in the library of Alexandria or you dont exist?? Is he trying to muscle alexandria articles to follow the Big Brother library?
 * This whole issue is confusing me. Although I'm still not convinced by the reliability of your sources, it is also clear that I'm out of my depth trying to make a decision on this article when I know nothing at all about art. I'm therefore going to change my vote on the AfD to Neutral, and leave the rest of the community to decide. Wal  ton  Vivat Regina!  17:42, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

not about winning or loosing
Despite the fact that you are considering this an ego battle and also despite the fact that you have attacked me for a lot of reasons none of which are true (even though I am sure you are not convinced), if the article gets deleted and if you provide sources in the future that will prove me wrong, I will rewrite it myself. I am not after deletion of articles that satisfy wiki criteria because of some vague personal vendetta chasing shadows. I follow up on all my AfDs and if you look through my history on ar.wiki, you will find me doing the same clerk work on a lot of discussions/articles (if you look at my history there you will also find I am not fully dedicated to give you pain as you think, I am just not an active editor here on en.wiki). --Shipmaster 21:22, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

The following is the last I am going to say about the subject:
 * I dont see how joining your group would make the artist more notable, even If I will personally be convinced, and write the article myself, it will be subject for deletion anytime because there are no sources.
 * A sysop doesnt have any extra power in WP, he is just entrusted with more work by the community, his decisions can be contested anytime, note the I was not the one who put your article for deletion on ar.wiki.
 * I am not obliged to look for sources, all I said is that I will rewrite the article if you present enough notable sources so that noone else will contest its deletion.
 * I am not affiliated in any direct way with BA, our group, which is headed by someone else, cooperates as I said with the BA for the wikimania 2008 bid, My suggestion to ask there was simply because the BA keeps all its data published on the internet, and thus can be verified easily.
 * I am flattered by your request to know my name, but I haven't given up anonymity after two years of wiki work and am not about to,and you are not mentioning yours so I dont see the point.
 * If you look at the Afd pages, you will find hundreds of AfDs per month and hundreds of articles get deleted, it is no reason to leave the WP, it is not personal, unless you only registered to make that single page, in that case, please read WP:AUTOBIO.--Shipmaster 11:33, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

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