User talk:Jweiss11/Archives/2014

January 2014
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 * Esera Tavai Tuaolo (born July 11, 1968) is a retired American professional football player. He was a defensive tackle in the [[National

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 * ! scope="row" | E. T. MacDonnell

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MacDonnell
Your suspicion looks to be correct, verified through this obit. I went ahead and added the dates but I thought I'd leave the merging up to you as I'm quite sloppy at it sometimes. Thanks for pointing this out! – Connormah (talk) 05:54, 12 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Connormah, thanks for the research. Do you have access to the full text of that obit?  I can only see a snippet of it. Jweiss11 (talk) 07:47, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
 * By playing around with search terms I did get that he coached at both - . – Connormah (talk) 18:03, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Nice. Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 20:34, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

GA review?
Hi Jweiss, I am looking for a GA reviewer for 2013 Penn State Nittany Lions football team, and was wondering if you would be interested in doing so. I was hoping to claim some WikiCup points, and thus avoid the backlog. Thanks.  Go  Phightins  !  17:05, 12 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Go Phightins!, sorry I didn't reply sooner. I see that the article has been promoted to GA status.  Nice work.  Jweiss11 (talk) 05:09, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Yup, it did. Thanks for your help with it earlier.  Go  Phightins  !  15:07, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

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NFL Draft section format
Hey, I saw that you're a contributor to college football articles, so could you leave your opinion here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject College football. I'm trying to get responses. Kobra98 (talk) 05:17, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Rob Riley (ice hockey)
SInce your main focus here is college athletics, was wondering if you could maybe weigh in at Rob Riley (ice hockey)'s AfD, or possibly dig up sources for the article? – Connormah (talk) 16:03, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

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February 2014
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 * Terry Parker HS (FL) (assistant) Miami (FL) (scout) [[Tampa

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 * Ellenberger can be seen briefly in the 1994 movie,  [Blue Chips]', squatting in a timeout huddle next to Bobby Knight. He also appears in an episode

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 * This is a list of college men's basketball coaches by number of career wins across the [National Collegiate Athletic Association] (NCAA) and [[National Association of Intercollegiate

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Dashes
I was editing a couple of pages the other day and as part of that, I changed some dashes (such as in ones used for a team's record) to the ndash style from HTML. I just noticed that you recently changed some of those on other pages to actual dashes and I was just wondering whether that is the accepted way to do it now on Wikipedia. I'd like to know so that when I update pages I'm not introducing new issues Thanks! Gopherguy | Talk 18:59, 24 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Gopherguy, thanks for the message. I'm pretty sure the generally preferred style is using the wiki-character, not the HTML code.  It's more efficient and certainly makes the edit view cleaner and easier to read.  Its been my SOP going back to late 2011 to use the wiki-character, not the HTML code.  Before then I used the HTML code, so I spend a lot of effort cleaning up my own earlier edits. Jweiss11 (talk) 19:11, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

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Reasoning for removal of info in navbox?
Hello, recently you removed some athletic coaches from the University of Houston navbox, but you did not explain your reasoning for doing so in your edit summary. Can you explain what your idea was? Thanks! Brian Reading (talk) 01:02, 18 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Brian, thanks for the message. The issue of navboxes on sports biography pages is one that has been much discussed at WikiProject College football and WikiProject College Basketball over the past few years.  The broad consensus is that to manage footer clutter in individual articles and to provide objective consistency across articles, biography articles should not be included in team or school navboxes and those navboxes should not be transcluded on such biography articles.  When biography articles are included on such school or team navboxes, the selections tend to lack objective criteria, begging the question why one person is on there, but not another.  Navboxes for the succession of particular position, e.g Template:Houston Cougars athletic director navbox do a much better job of providing an objective, comprehensive, and succinct set of relevant links. Jweiss11 (talk) 01:19, 18 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Sounds reasonable. Thanks for your explanation. Cheers! Brian Reading (talk) 06:29, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

March 2014
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 * Category:St. Thomas (Minnesota) Tommies football coaches

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 * Navboxes

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Need a football perspective on a page move
Hi Jweiss11 - I am looking to create an article for Elfrid Payton (basketball), a likely NBA draft pick and winner of a national Defensive Player of the Year award this past season. His dad, Elfrid Payton has an article as a former CFL player. Technically, the son is a "Jr," but he doesn't play under that name so I think it is appropriate to DAB. It also seems like father and son are about equally notable (or will be soon). My question is this - I'd like to move Payton the elder's page and make "Elfrid Payton" a DAB page. But what is the proper naming convention for someone like him? Would it be "Elfrid Payton (Canadaian football)?" or "Elfrid Payton (American football)?" or "Elfrid Payton (gridiron football)?" Not sure where the football project has landed with the football/soccer project. Thanks for your help! Rikster2 (talk) 13:18, 21 April 2014 (UTC
 * I think the best name for the father is Elfrid Payton (Canadian football) since he seems far more notable for his CFL career than his college football career. Jweiss11 (talk) 15:18, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Fred W. Murphy
I think the IP is correct at Talk:Fred W. Murphy. There's no way he could've coached at UMass and Missouri in the same season. Murphy's CfbDW profile only has him at UMass for just the 1899 season as well. Jrcla2 (talk) 00:12, 24 April 2014 (UTC)


 * No, CfbDW has him at both schools in 1900. It's just a quirk of the website that it only shows him at Missouri in 1900 in that view.  Click through on the 1900 season and you'll see results for both Missouri and UMass.  Of course, that's the case because I recently told David DeLassus to edit the site to reflect things that way.  Things were really screwed up there before.  Nonetheless, the UMass media guide has Murphy (erroneously as "Fred W. Murphy Brown") as the coach in both 1899 and 1900. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:49, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Murphy is also credited as the coach at Umass in 1900 in the 1902 yearbook here: https://archive.org/stream/index1902univ#page/58/mode/2up/search/football. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:56, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * What does the Missouri football media guide say (edit: just out of curiosity, I can stand by your rationale/sources for why he's listed twice in 1900)? Jrcla2 (talk) 12:17, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Missouri media guide has Fred Murphy for 1900 and 1901. Jweiss11 (talk) 15:07, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, verifiability, not truth. I agree. Jrcla2 (talk) 15:51, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Input requested for a college basketball !vote
You're a college sports regular on Wikipedia, so your input is requested at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College Basketball. Essentially, WP:CBBALL is trying to determine if cutting off team navboxes for Division I programs only is the way to go. Thanks! Jrcla2 (talk) 15:51, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

John F. Condon
Per some poking around, it appears the hat at John F. Condon is redundant as it seems that the coach Condon was most likely the one that played a role in the kidnapping. Can you maybe look into it further? Connormah (talk) 07:31, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

April 2014
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 * football coach at Massachusetts Agricultural College—now the [University of Massachusetts Amherst], holding the position for one season, in 1898, and compiling a record of 1–4–1. Weeks graduated in

May 2014
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 * Category:Sportspeople from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

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 * | overall_record    = 11–7  basketball}
 * }

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 * The 2014 Mercer Bears footbal team represented Mercer University in the 2014 NCAA Division I FCS football season.

Roy W. Johnson
According to this article about Roy W. Johnson, he lettered for Michigan's football team in the 1916 season before heading off to World War I. I don't see him listed at 1916 Michigan Wolverines football team, which Cbl62 is usually excellent at filling out. Is Johnson on Michigan's official lettermen winners for 1916, or was it an oversight by their athletics department? Jrcla2 (talk) 12:19, 23 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Johnson is listed only for 1919 on the all-time Michigan roster database. Jweiss11 (talk) 06:01, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Roy W. Johnson (coach)
Nice find on Roy W. Johnson (coach) -- another branch for the Fielding Yost coaching tree! I've added a bit from sources I could find. If someone has access to jstor, they might be able to pull up the biography/thesis that is now referenced under "Other sources." There's likely to be a lot more information there. I've been a lot less active on wiki lately, but keep me posted if you find other topics of interest. Cbl62 (talk) 16:28, 25 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Hello, I appreciate both of your efforts on the page. I've been putting links aside for some time as I was working on the Lobo basketball article, but I'm glad someone beat me to starting this page. The full Barney bio is at the UNM Special Collections library.  If "one of these days" ever rolls around, I'm going to go have a look.  Thanks, again!  Laszlo Panaflex (talk) 20:43, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

When you "sort categories"
What order are you putting them in? Because for many basketball figures they were in alpha order already. Rikster2 (talk) 10:11, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I, too, am wondering about this. To me, alphabetization is the only non-subjective way to organize categories. It is also easiest to find a category one may be looking for. Why would I look for "Basketball players from Pennsylvania" and "Columbia University alumni" at the end of Skip Stahley's categories? I had alphabetized all of his categories this morning, then saw your edit that undid this about a half hour later. Jrcla2 (talk) 16:22, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Apologies for the delayed response here, Rikster, and thanks, Jrcla, for following up. I realize that my SOP for sorting categories might be perceived as idiosyncratic, but it's systematic (sorta), if not formalized.  It seems that more important categories—that is categories that are more core to the notable identity of the subject in question—should come first, and categories of lesser importance—i.e. less core to the notable identity of the subject—like ethnicity and geographic origin, should come later.  That being said, I certainly see the benefits of a simple, alphabetical sort.  I remember reading some years ago a guideline or policy that said that categories didn't necessarily have to be sorted alphabetically.  Am I mistaken or has the written guideline or de facto interpretation in practice changed? Jweiss11 (talk) 23:04, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

June 2014
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 * [Syracuse Orange football|Syracuse]] (DL) Georgia Tech DC} San Diego Chargers (DL) [[Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets
 * }

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 * [Category:1948 deaths]

Nebraska Cornhuskers ADs
On Template:Nebraska Cornhuskers athletic director navbox, it doesn't list Glenn Presnell as the athletic director beginning in February 1942. According to this newspaper source, Presnell took over as AD in 1942. I added the Nebraska AD category to his article but am reluctant to change the navbox. Maybe your source(s) are more reliable and that the newspaper erroneously reported Presnell's hiring as AD? Either way, what do you make of it? Also, should the Nebraska AD category be removed from his article? Jrcla2 (talk) 14:24, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Jrcla, the article you cite above says that Presnell only because head football coach and that John K. Selleck became AD. I have Adolph J. Lewandowski taking over as AD in 1942.  I believe that I created this navbox from a document I found on the Big Ten website a couple years ago that included AD chronologies for all of the conference's member schools.  Let me see if I can track down that document again. Thanks also for your work of late to diffuse Category:College athletic directors in the United States into school-specific categories. Jweiss11 (talk) 20:41, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay, here's a version of the document I was talking about. It has Lewandowski succeeding Jones in 1942. Jweiss11 (talk) 20:47, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks for clarifying. I removed the category from his article. Jrcla2 (talk) 05:37, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Saturday June 21: Wiki Loves Pride
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Sunday July 6: WikNYC Picnic
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Edward Kelley
My name is Jonathan Kelley, my grandfather, Edward Kelley who you mentioned about his football career passed away this morning 7/2/2014 at 5:18 AM from Bone marrow cancer. I was seeing if you could update his birth and decease ? Please and thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jtonkelley (talk • contribs) 19:02, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Jonathan, thanks for the message and sorry to hear about your grandfather. My condolences to you and your family.  I'd be happy to update the article, but it would be best to cite a published source for the details of his death.  If and when an obituary is published, can you point me to it?  Jweiss11 (talk) 00:01, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
 * JW, I ran a Google news search a few hours ago, and could not find anything yet. If Edward Kelley just died this morning, that's not that surprising.  Tomorrow would be the first day any obituaries could run.
 * Jonathan, please accept my sincere condolences on the passing of your grandfather. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 00:19, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

July 2014
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Recent comment on my talk page
Hi Jweiss11,

Recently you commented on my talk page, and you told me that I should list future articles like these in ascending order. Can you show me evidence of this? Robert4565 (talk) 17:10, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Robert4565, I can't find anything at Manual of Style/Lists that says explicitly says chronological lists should be sorted in ascending order, but every chronological list I've come across that has reached featured list status is sorted that way. Jweiss11 (talk) 06:26, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Florida Gators football
JW, when you have a moment, can you please take a look at the distorted material the IP user (IP v6) is adding to the Florida Gators football article under the new "Controversies" section? Thanks. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 22:26, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Ken Hatfield revert
Please explain why my revision was reverted. No explanation was given on the reversion. Erzahler (talk) 16:04, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Erzahler, thanks for the message, and my apologies for not including a rationale in my edit summary. Your edit introduced a sub-optimal mix of references to schools and the teams for which Hatfield coached.  It's certainly acceptable to talk about the "University of Arkansas", "Arkansas Razorbacks", "Arkansas Razorbacks football", or "Arkansas Razorbacks" (piped to football article).  But "University of Arkansas Razorbacks" just looks sloppy. Jweiss11 (talk) 17:00, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. I have been away from Wikipedia for a while, so my editing might be a little lacking. Erzahler (talk) 11:57, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Succession boxes (?)
Hey, JW. I thought we were done with these three years ago -- ND succession box. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 18:25, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
 * We're definitely done with them in college sports, NBA, NFL, and MLB for head coaches, ADs, GMs, etc where we have navboxes. Don't think we've evey laid down the law about coordinators and other assistant coaching positions.  There are still a lot of succession boxes for those out there, particularly in the NFL.  Not sure we want more navboxes.  Perhaps, the best move is to have neither succession nor nav boxes for assistant positions? Jweiss11 (talk) 23:33, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm a little rusty, but I thought it was already understood that there would be no more succession boxes for college sports, and no navboxes for assistants, including DCs and OCs. Undermines a lot of effort made by a lot of people if we're simply going to allow the creation of succession boxes for tight end coaches, linebackers coaches and defensive coordinators instead of head coaches.  And you're right: we don't need more navboxes.  If anything we need to get the crufty minor award navboxes under control and eliminate most of them.
 * For the record, I note this succession box string is for the Notre Dame offensive coordinator. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 00:04, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * You have my support if you want to lead a purge of these navboxes. I'd start by posting at WP:NFL and making sure there are no objections to deleting the NFL ones, e.g. Mike Shanahan.  Also, welcome back.  How's everything going? Jweiss11 (talk)
 * Oh, I'm not looking for a fight with the WP:NFL guys, but I think we can safely purge the ND coordinator succession boxes. Did you happen to notice who inserted the ND boxes?  One of our busy crufter bees.  LOL  He does a lot of good work, too, but he does loves his cruft.  If these guys had their way, we would have succession boxes and navboxes for every assistant coach position -- nothing like 10 to 20 inches of cruft at the bottom of every head coach's page, eh?  I'm sure you remember what it was like . . ..
 * BTW, is there anyone "in charge" over at WP:NFL? It looks like Pats and Eagles are both semi-inactive these days . . . .  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:42, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm not looking to pick a fight either, but it would be better to nip all of that in the bud at once. I'm not sure who the NFL regulars are these days.  Jweiss11 (talk) 01:57, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Is there something wrong with my eyes?
Check this out:


 * Georgia–Tennessee football rivalry vs.
 * Tennessee–Georgia football rivalry.

Speedy one of them? AfD? AfM? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 04:25, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Another non-notable rivalry
Newly created article: Georgia–Vanderbilt football rivalry. I already tried to give the creator a head's up that the series is probably not notable as a rivalry per WP:NRIVALRY and WP:GNG. He seems to think all long-time annual series qualify, and looking at the college football rivalry category I can see where he might get that impression. New rivalry articles seem to have popped up like mushrooms in the cow pasture after a warm spring rain. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 04:25, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Sunday August 17: NYC Wiki-Salon and Skill Share
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August 2014
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 * Horace Gant, Jr. (born April 7, 1985 ) is an American football wide receiver who is currently a free agent. He played [[

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Why?
Why did you return "List of . . ." to "Southeastern Conference football individual awards"? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 04:49, 22 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Take a look at the other members of Category:College football conference awards and honors and things like Gatorade Player of the Year awards. Southeastern Conference football individual awards is not a list of awards.  It does, however, contain several lists of awards winners.  Perhaps, Lists of Southeastern Conference football individual award winners is more appropriate?  But, I think we're better off with one article the discusses the history, process, and whatever else regarding the Southeastern Conference football individual awards and also contains the lists of award winners. Jweiss11 (talk) 21:17, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football
Hey, we need you to chime in on this. I've posted comments to each of these four Requested Move discussions identified on the WP:CFB talk page, by explaining, as clearly and succinctly as I know how, the established consensus naming conventions for college sports articles -- that is the university short name (e.g., "Florida State"), plus the university's varsity team's mascot (e.g., "Seminoles"), yields the sports team name (e.g., "Florida State Seminoles"), which is also the WP:COMMONNAME used by the mainstream media. This should be a slam dunk, but for the fact that these RM discussion have become hopelessly confused as to when it is appropriate to use the "Lady ___" construction in the article titles, and the college sports editors who have been participating don't know the origins and reasons for our naming conventions. These discussions are being poked and prodded by a regular participant in WP:MOS and WP:AT to adopt a completely new nomenclature and naming scheme for American college sports articles. Unless more knowledgeable college sports editors participate in these discussions, we could wind up with four horrible precedents that could take months of additional wrangling to correct, leading to the inevitable instability in article titles as less knowledgeable editors start to implement what they perceive to be a new "consensus." Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:13, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Dirtlawyer1, I've looked at the four requested moves. There are a number of issues intertwined here.  The most basic is whether "State" should be included in the name of certain sports teams.  That's depends on common usage by third-party media in each instance.  The second issue is how to treat schools that have a "Lady X" name for women's sports.  Not sure about that one.  The third issue is the wholesale change in the naming scheme of college sports articles.  I am, as you might well expect, vehemently opposed to that.  I think you and others have justified that opposition well in the requested move discussions.  Whatever the case, that's the sort of change that needs to be discussed at a project or RFC level, not buried in a single or a few requested move discussions.  Does this wholesale change proposal have any real traction? Jweiss11 (talk) 00:47, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree on all three points. The inclusion (or not) of "State" in the team names is determined by WP:COMMONNAME.  Cbl probably had the best idea with regard to "Lady ___": if there is no mascot gender difference except the use of "Lady," then omit "Lady" from the article title, create a "Lady ___" redirect and include "Lady ___" in the lead as bolded text.  I think that resolves the gender problem 90%+ of the time.  As for the new naming scheme, do not underestimate SMcC: he is an MOS regular and a self-styled article title expert on article titles.  He is relentless as a pitbull terrier, and he's right more often than he's wrong, and he sometimes gets his way even when he is wrong.  He has had the Bird, Horse and several other animal WikiProjects stirred up for over a year.  Better to nip that in the bud before we're forced to have a Wikipedia-wide RfC on college sports team names, and have to defend existing consensus to a bunch of people who don't understand the existing naming system.  Cheers, old man.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:16, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Chicago–Michigan football rivalry
Hey Jweiss, not sure what's up with this diff deleting more than half of the Chicago–Michigan football rivalry article. The article is new and under construction, and I was unsure whether the edit which was explained only with the summary ("spacing") was inadvertent or had another rationale. Let me know. Cbl62 (talk) 04:23, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
 * My bad. I intended just to delete a stray extra space, but I seem to have deleted a lot more.  Sorry about that. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:00, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
 * No problem. The article is in need of trimming, which I'll be working on, but that seemed a bit excessive! Cbl62 (talk) 05:02, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Next round of proposed CFB "rivalry" articles for AfD review
Head's up: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football. Your input is requested. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:43, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Unsigned comment by User:Gounc123
"Talk pages are to be used to discuss the development of the article. Your own user space would be a much better place to develop content." Completely disagree. The content I added was a form of discussing if appropriate for inclusion on the article page. You are the problem with Wikipedia as you arbitrarily go on a hunt to remove content.

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Dale Van Sickel
FYI, Van Sickel was an AP first-team All-American in 1928, but he was not a consensus All-American, so there are no consensus AA navboxes for his honors. Different case from some of the other redundant "See also" articles you have recently removed. Cheers. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:21, 31 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Those links are in the infobox though. Jweiss11 (talk) 20:23, 31 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Yup, they sure are, if you know to click on the year following the infobox All-American honors. It is entirely acceptable to replicate infobox links in main body text or the "see also" section.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:36, 31 August 2014 (UTC)


 * DL, peaking of the infobox All-American honors for Dale Van Sickel, why do we need links to All-America there? Why not just the higher-value links to 1928 College Football All-America Team and 1929 College Football All-America Team?  I think a much better form is what we see at Gordon Locke. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:14, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The simple reason why we use "Consensus All-American (2014)" or "First-team All-American (1998)" or "First-team All-Big Ten (1992)" or "Second-team All-Pro (2011)" is because it tracks what is supposed to be the uniform formatting of infobox honors in 14,000+ transclusions of Template:Infobox NFL player, and is also supposed to the established uniform format for Infobox college coach, Infobox college athlete, and Infobox NFL coach. Part of the uniform formatting is to use the parenthetical year(s) to link to the season-specific lists for All-America Teams, All-Pro team, Pro Bowl selections, etc.  There is also the principle of hyperlinks only displaying as much as required as link (i.e., don't link to an entire sentence or phrase when you can link to one or two words); implementing this principle is, of course, a balancing act.  Using the parenthetical date format is also space efficient: it allows multiple awards of the same honor to be reflected on a single line (i.e., "Consensus All-American (2009, 2010)").  Space efficiency becomes a very real issue for many prominent players and coaches, whose infoboxes are often overwhelmed by 20+ lines of awards, honors, championships, records, etc.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 04:31, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

"Cite book" redirect
In 2012 you participated in a discussion about various "cite x" template redirects (e.g. "Cite journal", "Cite book", etc) at Redirects for discussion/Log/2012 August 30. The redirect "" was nominated for deletion yesterday (31 August 2014) and your input into the discussion would be welcome at Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 August 31. Thryduulf (talk) 12:49, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

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Template:UC Santa Barbara Gauchos baseball coach navbox
Saw that a while back you created Template:UC Santa Barbara Gauchos baseball coach navbox with with a ton of pre-1947 information, for which records seem to be fairly spotty. Was curious as to where you got that information as I'm attempting to record the history for UC Santa Barbara Gauchos baseball and would love either your sources/citations or assistance with the article. Thanks!

— GauchoDude (talk) 15:12, 12 September 2014 (UTC)


 * JW and GauchoDude, navboxes like this one which are well over half red links are strong candidates for deletion at TfD. I'm not the one who will do the nominating, but we've been through this process with the TfD template/navbox guardians from hell in the past.  We know what the navbox guidelines say, and this one does not comply.  In the absence of stand-alone articles for most of the listed coaches, I suggest you create a section within the Gauchos baseball article that lists all of the Gaucho baseball coaches, their tenures, their win-loss records, etc., and then use section-specific links in the navbox to link to the list of coaches in the article.  That should provide some measure of cover.  Cheers, guys.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 15:19, 12 September 2014 (UTC)


 * DL, that's what I'm attempting to do however it looks like JW had access to information that I cannot find for the earlier years. It seems too well done and organized to be faked/created, so would love to merge that information into here if possible once I can find sources to cite.


 * — GauchoDude (talk) 15:53, 12 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Go to the Gauchos baseball webpage, click on the archives tab, and them look for the link for the 2010-11 media guide (the last season for which a full blown media guide is available). In the 2010-11 media guide, there is a single page that lists all of the Gauchos coaches with their win-loss records starting in 1947.  Enjoy, GD.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:10, 12 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes, that's what I've been utilizing along with some other things, but I was more curious in the pre-1947 stuff JW had listed in the table ... hence this conversation that he's not even in yet! The navbox lists not only coaches, but seasons and the lack thereof, which aren't made mention to through the UCSB media guide.


 * — GauchoDude (talk) 16:28, 12 September 2014 (UTC)


 * JW and his posse sometimes have access to online versions of school yearbooks. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:59, 12 September 2014 (UTC)


 * I've found this source, which I think sums up the head coaching bit in question above.


 * — GauchoDude (talk) 18:04, 12 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Nice find. And it's buried among many, many other irrelevant tidbits about other California universities.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 18:17, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

I must have built this navbox off of the NCAA database: http://web1.ncaa.org/stats/StatsSrv/careersearch. That site has holes and is not very user friendly, but it can be helpful in filling in some gaps. In the "School/Sport Search" search box, set school to UC Santa Barbara and sport to baseball. Then click on the UC Santa Barbara to the left of 2012-13 towards bottom of the produced list. Then click on View UC Santa Barbara's Year-By-Year W/L Record. Again, not very user-friendly. Jweiss11 (talk) 19:04, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

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Carlos Brown (American football)
Hey J -- You created this article five years ago, when it looked like Brown might break out into a star. Unfortunately, that never happened, and the article has languished. Back in February, an IP user added lengthy copyvio in this edit. I removed the copyvio today. Thought I'd call it to your intention in case you wanted to update the article or revise the section dealing with Brown's senior year. Cbl62 (talk) 22:20, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Michigan deletion assessment
Your input would be helpful and welcome at User:Cbl62/Michigan deletion candidates. Cbl62 (talk) 15:27, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

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Peer review - possible GA/FA contender?
Hi, Jweiss11 — I'm dropping you a line because you seem to be an involved editor at WikiProject College football and you've commented on the talk page at College Football Playoff before.

With football season in full swing, I wonder if there's any interest in getting College Football Playoff reviewed up to standards, perhaps to be an FA candidate sometime before the first playoff this winter (or at least GA status), given its importance as a topic in the football world. I've been trying to smooth and tweak it for awhile now (hopefully not too CRYSTAL), and I think it's gotten to be in pretty decent shape, though it's still rated Start class. I was hoping somebody could give me some feedback.

One area that's important but unaddressed is the history and the old systems — a concise but adequate summary of the BCS-era drama and general teeth-gnashing over the years. User:Dcheagle has begun writing some of that history on this draft page. There are sections from Plus-One system and College football playoff debate that should probably be included, though those articles likely need an overhaul as well. Images, too, are probably needed.

I've never made a run at GA/FA before, so I'm sort of unsure of the next steps for this. Thanks for any help! Woodshed (talk) 00:28, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

More single-game articles
JW, several guys on the periphery of the CFB project are randomly creating single-game articles. The latest were annual single-game editions of the Texas Kickoff and Cowboys Classic, involving one of the editors who has been responsible for many of the recently AfD'ed rivalry and single-game articles. I have converted the single-game articles to redirects to the parent article, but I fully expect to be reverted. I think it's probably time that we adopt a written WP:CFB policy regarding single-game articles, and move to incorporate it into WP:NSPORTS. I wanted to do that as part of a general move to adopt tighter standards for WP:NRIVALRY and WP:NCOLLATH, but I've reconsidered, and I think that taking this in small bites is more likely to be ultimately successful. In any event, that single-game issue needs to be addressed. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 05:52, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
 * This all-star editor just reverted your redirects. I think the best move is to AfD the articles. Jweiss11 (talk) 23:28, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I saw that coming. It was a BOLD move on my part, and I'm surely not going to get caught up in an edit war over it.  I will prepare the AfDs and let everyone know.  I have an AfD hit list of single-game and rivalry game articles which includes multiple creations by the editor in question.  We still need a WP:CFB single-game standard we can incorporate into WP:NSPORTS, rather than refighting/re-explaining this argument every time we have a single-game AfD.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 04:03, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Done: Nominated for deletion, will post notice for everyone at WT:CFB. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 05:56, 7 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Articles for deletion/2014 Cowboys Classic
 * Articles for deletion/2013 Cowboys Classic
 * Articles for deletion/2012 Cowboys Classic
 * Articles for deletion/2011 Cowboys Classic
 * Articles for deletion/2010 Cowboys Classic
 * Articles for deletion/2009 Cowboys Classic
 * FYI, I'll nominate the final two Chick-fil-A Kickoff game articles after the current batch of AfDs close on Tuesday. I'm waiting for feedback from Patriarca12, but in previous conversations he's already suggested several of the Bama single-game articles need to be sent to AfD.  Almost all of the pre-2000 single-game articles look pretty solid; there may be a small handful that need to be critically reviewed, but a definitive consensus will be determined by the time 20 or 25 of these articles are deleted, and the WP:NSPORTS talk page is already entertaining proposals that it's time to clarify the ambiguities in the provisions regarding the notability and suitabilty of stand-alone articles for regular season games.  I believe the CBB and association football guys are already on board with such clarifications, but we need to sound out the WP:Baseball and WP:NFL guys, too.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 23:45, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Assuming the AfDs for these kickoff games close as delete/merge, we'll have to remember to XfD the associated categories and templates. There are definitely some questionable ones from pre-2000, e.g. 1890 Kansas vs. Baker football game.  First game in Kansas?  The first one in New Jersey deserves it's own article for sure, but for the other 49 states? Jweiss11 (talk) 00:04, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
 * FYI, please see my change of !vote: diff. I don't think there's any content left that's still worth merging to the 2014 season article.  You may want to consider changing your !vote to make this easier on the closing administrator.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 07:17, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I've changed the proposal per your suggestion. Jweiss11 (talk) 17:41, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

JW, when you have a moment, I'd be grateful if you would give me your single-game AfD recommendations. Cbl and Patriarca have already provided their recommendations (see me talk page). We're still awfully heavy on games from the 2000s. FYI, 20 single-game article have been nominated so far, and all 14 that have closed were "deletes"; if we didn't have a solid precedent before, we do now. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 00:36, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Now, 18 of 20 deleted. Don't forget to stick a fork in the last 2.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 03:15, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Obscure abbreviations
Weiss, what the heck does "DT" mean in your infobox assistant coach positions? Defensive tackles? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 23:14, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
 * That would be my guess. Was that my edit? Jweiss11 (talk) 23:15, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I figured it out with an online coach's profile. Pretty specific when you only coach the defensive tackles; that's a real specialist.  LOL  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 23:24, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
 * How about the current position of former the main man in Gainesville? Is he in charge of the kicking tees in Green Bay" ;) Jweiss11 (talk) 23:28, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
 * What the heck does that mean? Is he the assistant coach in charge of special teams?  Or is he the assistant to the special teams coach?  Title is not clear.  Quite a comedown for the Zookster; he was a special teams coach in the NFL 20 years ago.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 23:37, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Maybe he's the assistant in charge of the kicking tees AND that net thingy that kickers use to practice kicking FGs on the sideline. Jweiss11 (talk) 00:07, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

WTF?
Why would anyone think this is necessary or desirable: Category:Night Games at Michigan Stadium? >>> CFD. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 12:30, 11 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes, CfD! Jweiss11 (talk) 13:18, 11 October 2014 (UTC)

October 2014
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Most weeks number 1
Hey, I've edited that page the past several years (including defending it from an idiot mob wanting to delete it for fun). Thanks for the additions, edits, etc. I think it's a fun stat that people like to discuss. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.45.122.180 (talk) 17:50, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

FYI: CfD
Category clean-up: Categories for discussion/Log/2014 October 26. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:07, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Keeper vs. AfD?
Do you think the 38-point second-half comeback makes 2006 Michigan State vs. Northwestern football game a worthy single-game article? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:21, 28 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Seems okay. There are one much higher ones on the AfD totem pole.  How about 1997 Linfield vs. Willamette football game and 2001 Cumberland vs. Jacksonville State football game? Liz Heaston and Ashley Martin seem notable enough for bio articles.  But do we need articles about the game in which they established their notability?  Do we or should we have an article for the game at Ebbets Field on April 15, 1947 when Jackie Robinson made his MLB debut?  I don't think so.  And that game was a lot more historic than two.  those 1890 Kansas vs. Baker football game needs to go as well. Jweiss11 (talk) 01:27, 29 October 2014 (UTC)


 * FYI, there are three new AfDs pending for regular season game articles. I'd like to add two more in the next 24 hours.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:46, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

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November 2014
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 * * http://articles.kspr.com/2012-03-20/marshfield-superintendent-mark-mayo_31217462 Marshfield not

Treon Harris follow-up
JW, FYI: and Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard/Archive211. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 02:23, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

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Dumb-ish question re our friend the coaching record fantasist
205.213.195.22 is persistent, and has been warned on their talk page. I'm certainly not an expert on these things, but is now the appropriate time for a school block? —Luis (talk) 21:09, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'd say it's time for one now. The the place to report this is here. Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 21:15, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Reported; thanks for the pointer! —Luis (talk) 02:15, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Leonard George
Hey, JW. Just saw your housekeeping edits to this article. What's your take on the subject's notability per GNG? Leonard George and Willie Jackson were the first two African-Americans to join the Florida Gators football team in 1969-70. Jackson does not have a stand-alone article (note that his son, Willie Jackson, Jr., does), and he was the more distinguished college player of the two. I've been contemplating what to do with this article since it popped on my Wiki radar several months ago, and given the potential racial sensitivities, I didn't feel any need to rush any decision. Having thought about it, I am inclined to recommend a merge/redirect to a Florida Gators football "integration" subsection, with perhaps a reference in a similar subsection in the main University of Florida article. He would get more attention in those articles, and they would place him (and Jackson) in the proper context. What's your reaction? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:31, 19 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Not sure about George. I'd have to look closer to see what sources are out there.  How about Don Gaffney?  He seems certainly notable as both a starting QB for Florida and a member of the Florida House of Representatives. Jweiss11 (talk) 20:33, 19 December 2014 (UTC)


 * Gaffney gets a pass per WP:NPOLITICIAN, but I expect that he would satisfy GNG, too. Gaffney was part of a quarterback controversy that included Dave Bowden, but not for the obvious racial reasons.  Bowden was a classic drop-back passer, and Gaffney was the prototypical dual threat who fit into Doug Dickey's so-called Gatorbone offense (variation of the wishbone).  Fans wanted something that resembled the offenses of the Ray Graves years (think Steve Spurrier in '66 and John Reaves in '69), not a ball control offense that relied on defense to win games (shades of Will Muschamp!).  Ironically, Gaffney would have been a fine drop-back passer, too, but he was never really given the opportunity in that role.  Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:25, 19 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Small world, isn't it. Fancy seeing you here. Drmies (talk) 02:27, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is a small world, Doc, but I wouldn't want to be assigned to paint it. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 16:13, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

UCLA Bruins football
Hi Jweiss11--I had to block those two edit warriors, unfortunately. If you like, maybe this is a good time to look into the matter and make a call. Since I blocked I can't judge content, nor do I care for UCLA anyway ever since one of 'em ran all over us, twice. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 02:25, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

A suggestion
Hey Jweiss, Merry Christmas! I was reviewing the debacle at UCLA Bruins football involving edit warring, and noticed your wholly productive edits in between the edit warring. It occurred to me that if that page were protected to "force" discussion, you would be unable to edit it, and then I got to thinking, why aren't you an administrator? You have been around for going on 10 years, have 140,000 edits, have only one block that was more than two years ago, are an excellent content worker, experienced in AFD and CFD -- both areas that could use some sports administrators -- and would be under no obligation to use the tools a ton, just when you need them or get bored gnoming around. I would be more than willing to nominate, or answer any questions you might have on how RfA is these days [it's a lot better than it was], as I went through the process in May. Let me know! Thanks!  Go  Phightins  !  03:28, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
 * GoPhigtins, you should consider running yourself! Problem in the UCLA case would be that you can't do both, typically--edit and administer. But yeah, Jweiss, consider it please. Drmies (talk) 14:15, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
 * . I did :-)  Go  Phightins  !  14:24, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Oh man I wish I'd known. I would have totally supported as the 47th such editor. Drmies (talk) 15:25, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
 * You did, Drmies :-) Requests for adminship/Go Phightins!  Go  Phightins  !  00:02, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Fellas, thanks for the thoughts and encouragement. I haven't really given much serious thought to applying to be an admin, but I think I'd rather just focus on the editing and project management stuff for WikiProject College football and related projects.  I know one CFB regular (and a regular on this talk page) who should be admin, but, alas, some people didn't think so. Jweiss11 (talk) 23:24, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I have a feeling I know the person to whom your alluding, and believe he would probably pass right now as would you ... let me know if you ever reconsider. You would be terrific, and speaking from experience, it doesn't really have to change the way you edit, it just gives you a few more tools to do so.  Go  Phightins  !  00:07, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

CSU-Pueblo colors
Thanks. I didn't realize that the colors listed on the CSU–Pueblo ThunderWolves page were not the official ones. Thanks for the correction.--SportsMaster (talk) 21:15, 22 December 2014 (UTC)


 * SportsMaster, no worries. It's always worth checking. Jweiss11 (talk) 01:23, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Need your reaction . . ..
JW, please take a look-see at this, and give it some thought. After you've had some time to think about it, and provided some feedback, I'll start inviting Cbl, Paul, John and the rest of the WP:CFB gang to provide their reactions and suggestions, too. I need you to play devil's advocate -- I would prefer not to start a free-for-all food fight until we've cleaned up any obvious oversights on my part.

Once we settle on the parameters/fields to be included, I'll invite Frietjes and/or another template editor to help with the graphics, etc. Beyond preserving a distinctive look for the template, the next thing that comes to mind is that present template is about 15 to 20% too wide. When we're done, I would like as close to a 100% buy-in from WP:CFB participants as I can get.

Chappy Chanukah, Old Man. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:15, 23 December 2014 (UTC)


 * I would also like to get your opinion regarding this article, ESPN College Football on ABC results, and the several other similar topics. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:02, 27 December 2014 (UTC)


 * DL, ESPN College Football on ABC results look like a slam dunk delete. Very trivial. I'll have to take a closer look at the infobox you're working on. Jweiss11 (talk) 22:50, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
 * NCAA Division I football win-loss records in the 1910s and its ten siblings look ripe for AfD as well. Jweiss11 (talk) 22:56, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

JW, can you take a look at the remaining 80 unassessed CFB articles? I've identified 20+ of them as likely AfD candidates, and there are various issues with the remaining 60 or so articles. Several of them are active CFB players of marginal notability, several are non-notable former CFB players who may be notable for something else, and others may be problematic for other reasons. I've been through the list three or four times over the holiday week, assessed 150+ of the original list of 234, and it's probably time for a fresh set of eyes on the rest of them. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 11:17, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your GT color edit
Making it Navy make sense, so thank you for making it that way. I'm sorry if I looked stubborn in my edits on that template. --Wikidude10000 (talk) 08:14, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

okina hawaii
Please do not remove all of the okina's until you actually discuss it. Start a discussion on either a college football discussion page of a college basketball discussion page. It has been done that way for years and years so for you just to decide it should not be that way anymore and change it on every article it is on is wrong. It is not your decision to make and until it is discussed it should remain with the okina's like it has always been. Bsuorangecrush (talk) 22:10, 27 December 2014 (UTC)


 * I have started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football. The okinas and accents are inconsistent and sloppy.  "It has been done that way for years and years" is not a very good argument.  I've made edits to every single Hawaii head football coach bio article going back to early 2010 and never used the okinas there.  There article titling schemes and third-party sources suggest they are not needed. Jweiss11 (talk) 22:25, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Question
JuvieDelinquent (talk) 04:10, 29 December 2014 (UTC) I have a question?


 * Okay, shoot. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:07, 29 December 2014 (UTC)