User talk:Jweiss11/Archives/2017

There is a discussion
at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College Basketball which you input would be appreciated.UCO2009bluejay (talk) 22:59, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Schemes for 2017 Texas Longhorns football team
For the power spread: http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/longhorns/article/Tom-Herman-confident-he-made-right-hires-for-UT-10838856.php

For the 3-4: http://www.burntorangenation.com/2016/12/20/14025450/todd-orlando-craig-naivar-texas-longhorns-assistants-yancy-mcknight

SCIAC Standings
How confident are you with the 1926 SCIAC football standings? San Diego State joined the conference that year, and the SDSU media guide reports them having a 1926 record of Overall: 3-4-1, Conf: 1-3-1. University of La Verne joined in 1925, and I show them with a 1926 record of Overall: 3-2-2, Conf: 1-1-2. That would change several schools' records, right?

College football warehouse has CalTech with an overall 4-3-1 record, Occidental with an overall 4-4-1 record, Pomona with an overall 5-2-0 record, and Redlands 0-8-0. All of those would be changes to the existing template.

Thoughts? Ocfootballknut (talk) 02:52, 9 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Ocfootballknut, here's the source I used, which UW Dawgs dug up. http://static.psbin.com/5/m/x5k85yxyitg1pi/SCIACStandings.pdf.  La Verne is first listed in the standings there in 1927. Jweiss11 (talk) 03:08, 9 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Also, which website exactly did you find those overall record for CalTech, Occidental, Pomona, and Redlands? Jweiss11 (talk) 03:11, 9 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Cal Tech: http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/incomplete_data/game_by_game_discontinued.php?teamid=474&year=1926 Occidental: http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/incomplete_data/game_by_game_current.php?teamid=2363&year=1926 Pomona-Pitzer: http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/incomplete_data/game_by_game_current.php?teamid=2601&year=1926 Redlands: http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/incomplete_data/game_by_game_current.php?teamid=2684&year=1926 SDSU Media Guide showing SDSU as part of SCIAC in 1926: http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/sdsu/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/2016-17/misc_non_event/history.pdf#page=32 The 1-3-1 conference record for SDSU in 1926 only works if you include La Verne.Ocfootballknut (talk) 06:54, 9 January 2017 (UTC)


 * P.S. I compared the PDF file you referenced to the cfbdatawarehouse (1926-1938, the only years I care about). The differences are: 1. 1926: SDSU & LaVerne not listed 2. 1929: SDSU beat LaVerne; game missing from PDF file records 3. The order in 1931 is strange 4. 1932: Can't have 3 total conference ties (has to be an even number). Online data shows Whittier without a tie 5. 1933: Really different. Whittier, LaVerne, Occidental, Pomona 6. 1938: Online data includes UCSB; printout does not. Without UCSB's game included, SDSU's media guide record doesn't work. Ocfootballknut (talk) 07:15, 9 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Found a 1926 article in the Los Angeles Times that shows the standings for the SCIAC, including La Verne and San Diego State: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/8740926/southern_conference_nov_15_1926_la_times/ Ocfootballknut (talk) 06:02, 4 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Have more definitive documentation from 1926 showing LaVerne & SDS in the SCIAC (including the 1927 San Diego State yearbook where they discuss being part of the conference). I've adjusted the template and entered links to the documentation in the talk page. Ocfootballknut (talk) 07:42, 21 February 2017 (UTC)


 * I just downloaded an article from the San Diego Union October 3, 1926 stating that the game they played on 10/2/1926 was their first conference game. Also on the same page an article about La Verne says the same thing.Ocfootballknut (talk) 18:30, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

Self-redirect
Hi Jweiss11. I noticed that you created Santa Barbara State Normal School as a redirect to itself. I assume that this was a mistake, so I'm letting you know so that you can edit the page to redirect wherever it was supposed to go. Thanks! —Granger (talk · contribs) 19:36, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Go Gauchos!UCO2009bluejay (talk) 02:36, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Granger, thanks for the heads up and and, UCO2009bluejay,thanks for making the fix. Jweiss11 (talk) 03:31, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Cal State Long Beach vs. Long Beach State
As a graduate of Cal State Long Beach and a resident of the area, I'm not sure why we have to use a name that hasn't been correct for over half a century. Unlike San Diego State and San Jose State, Cal State Long Beach didn't request the State of California to revert the name to Long Beach State when it was changed in 1964. I guess we have to call it Long Beach State in Wikipedia for some reason, we can, but it's not correct. And when my daughters were considering going there, it was never called Long Beach State either. I'm not saying that term doesn't exist, but it's certainly not the preferred name. Ocfootballknut (talk) 03:53, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
 * What really matters is how reliable third-party sources refer to the school's sport teams. You can see that ESPN calls them the "Long Beach State 49ers" here: http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/299/long-beach-state-49ers. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:27, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Pete Pederson
Jweiss11, I know you usually add links in the "Year" column of the yearly college football seasons. I would have done so myself for Pete Pederson's article but I wasn't sure what NCAA classification the schools were respectively in during the 1940s and 1950s. Mind taking a look and filling in where appropriate? Jrcla2 (talk) 14:23, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

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CSS styling in templates
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February 15: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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1980 Hawaii team
Hey, just want to let you know for WP:College baseball, I'm going to create a season article for the 1980 Hawaii team. Right now, I'm working on it in draft space at Draft:1980 Hawaii Rainbow Warriors baseball team. Quidster4040 (talk) 19:42, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

CCAA in Division II
Is there any reason the CCAA is missing from List_of_NCAA_Division_II_football_seasons, and related pages? If not, I'd be happy to add their data from 1973-1981 (when they stopped football). Ocfootballknut (talk) 07:42, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I think it's just an oversight. Go ahead and add it in. Jweiss11 (talk) 13:40, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

J. Dye
Wonder if the "J Dye" here is Jack Dye? Cake (talk) 22:20, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Not sure. Would take some research to figure it out.  But I did just figre out that Rose Polytechnic's coach in 1903 was A. F. Holste. Jweiss11 (talk) 22:41, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

March 11: Art+Feminism Edit-a-thon @ MoMA (and beyond!)
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Andrew Turzilli
If you would be so kind as to go to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League or Talk:Andrew Turzilli, you would see there is an on going discussion about the issue. Do not add Kansas until consensus is reached. (talk page stalker) Crash Under ride  16:50, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I saw the discussion. There's clearly no consensus to exclude Kansas.  And it defies common sense as well. Jweiss11 (talk) 16:51, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Of course there is no consensus to exclude, seeing as we are in the middle of the discussion. There certainly wouldn't be a consensus either way. Kmanblue and I had agreed to leave it as it was, with just Rutgers, until a consensus, either way, was reached. (talk page stalker) Crash Under ride  17:04, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

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Kansas Jayhawks men's basketball page
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File:Pete Henry.jpg
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Please comment
Please comment on this discussion on how we will name the navbox groupings. If after one (1) week no one has commented, then the suggestions listed will be applied to the groupings. Thanks, Corkythe hornetfan  (ping me) 22:36, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

The Michigan Daily
A donor has paid to make the archives of The Michigan Daily available online for free. The database can be found here. Enjoy! Cbl62 (talk) 19:15, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads-up. Jweiss11 (talk) 23:48, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

University Division
I have searched newspapers.com trying to find reportage on the creation of the NCAA University Division for college football in 1956. I came up blank. However, I did find confirmation that, as of 1956, the NCAA Service Bureau kept separate statistics for "major college" and "small college" teams. See, e.g., here. So, is there a list available somewhere showing which schools were considered "major" and which were "small"? I found conflicting information on this question. For example, I found this list from a Virginia newspaper in Dec 1956 showing the records and schedules of the 98 "major college" teams. I also found this list and this one, both from November 1956, showing the Chicago Tribune list of the records of 167 major college teams. (The Chicago Tribune continued to publish a broad "major college" list in 1957 here) The Chicago Tribune lists have almost 70 more teams listed as "major" than does the first list. Does one of these groupings correspond to the "University Division"? I've not found an answer to that. Do you know? Cbl62 (talk) 16:50, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

College Division
When I finish with Division I-AA, I'll probably create the weekly ranking pages for the Small College division (UPI from 1958-1974, AP from 1960-1974). They would be in the same basic format as 1991 NCAA Division I-AA football rankings. Couple of questions ...
 * The entire category of Small Colleges is missing from Template:NCAA football rankings navbox. Is it okay to add the Small College category to that navbox?
 * Champions in the Small College division don't currently have their own category. For example, the 1966 San Diego State Aztecs football team currently goes directly to Category:College football national champions. But Division I-AA/FCS, for example, has its own subcategory below that (Category:NCAA Division I Football Champions). Should the Small College champions continue to go into the main category, or should the Small College division have its own subcategory? Ocfootballknut (talk) 23:47, 5 May 2017 (UTC)


 * Ocfootballknut, yes, seems reasonable to add a new section to that navbox for the Small College rankings articles. As for 1966 San Diego State Aztecs football team and the other Small College division champion articles, a new subcategory of Category:College football national champions could be created for them.  Jweiss11 (talk) 16:35, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

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College basketball categorization issues
How much of the damage that was inflicted has been undone and how much remains to be fixed? I'd be happy to help clean up the mess. Lepricavark (talk) 16:35, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The damage appears to be much greater in scope than I initially realized. I have reverted a sizable portion, but there appears to be much more that remains. I hope I haven't overstepped my boundaries and I won't revert anymore until I hear back from you, but I just can't understand why all this destruction was necessary. Lepricavark (talk) 17:07, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I think we have another albatross on our hands. See this.UCO2009bluejay (talk) 17:46, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

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Do we go ahead?
We've pretty much got a consensus – group all together, same order as it has been. Question is do we go ahead and start applying this to the articles not or do what this guy says and go to the Village Pump? Corkythe hornetfan  (ping me) 04:12, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I say be bold and start grouping. Although there's hardly anything bold about it. No need to get the limeys involved. Lizard (talk) 04:47, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm asking so I have others on board. As soon as I start, someone will revert me so this is just a precautionary step. Corkythe hornetfan  (ping me) 04:52, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Corky, my recommendation is to completely ignore Eggishorn's closure of the conversation and his ruling on scope of applicability. Let's finish the conversation to hash out any unresolved details, if there are any.  Then when you are ready to deploy, please do so uniformly across all North American sports biographies. Jweiss11 (talk) 07:11, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I personally think we've gathered all of the details (at least that I can think of), and don't need any further discussion. As mentioned above, we have consensus – group all together, same order as it has been in the past – basically we're just slapping the Navboxes template around the navboxes. This does lead me to those that are grouped currently (awards and honors). If we're going to group all of the navboxes together, there is no need for them to be grouped by themselves, so my recommendation is to ungroup that and include them with the rest of the navboxes. If you have any other details you think needs worked out, please share. I will probably start on this project next week after I return from the Holiday weekend. Corkythe hornetfan  (ping me) 07:22, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
 * The only detail left I can think of is the minimum number of navboxes needed to invoke the grouping. Three?  Four? Jweiss11 (talk) 07:26, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Most generally, in a regular article like Notre Dame Fighting Irish football, I would start grouping if there are three navboxes aside from the main football navbox... so four all together. even mentioned here that the NBA project does 3 or move navboxes... I'd personally go with three myself. I do have another question: for current coaches, do we leave the current team's navbox and current conference navbox out like in Bob Stoops article or do we just group it all together? I'd personally go for leaving the current team outside the grouping and then move it to the appropriate space when they leave that position... Corkythe  hornetfan  (ping me) 07:44, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
 * In NBA, we generally leave "current" navboxes like current roster and current team X's list of head coaches outside and on top. And the magic number for grouping is 3 or more. See WP:NBAEL.—Bagumba (talk) 14:27, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I am not a fan of leaving the coaching navbox for current team outside the nest. It is not a "current" template, it is a historical one and belongs after the other coaching navboxes in an article. Rikster2 (talk) 02:34, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I was more describing what was being done, not necessarily my opinion. I see you changed it for Steve Kerr. I'm fine with it grouped as well.  All things being equal, less is more.—Bagumba (talk) 06:13, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree with Jweiss11, go ahead and implement, as this is as strong a consensus as we can realistically expect to get for this. And silence by others does count for something. I don't think many outside of these NA sports WikiProjects are going to care or understand the nuances of the problem we are discussing if you bothered with an RfC.  The major NA sports stakeholders and ones who care enough to implement the mass changes have had their say.  Once the changes get traction, I think Wikignomes will just copy and follow suit.  WP:NBASTYLE has pretty much been stable and implemented with less than a handful of editors ever caring to discuss it. The closing really wouldn't matter much even if it was worded stronger in favor of an overall NA sports consensus.  Consensus can change, so you wouldn't just be able to rest on the closing forever anyways.  Unless new dissenters are organized enough to establish a new consensus, they shouldn't get very far if they chose to edit war.—Bagumba (talk) 14:43, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Agree. I've invoked WP:SILENCE many times because sometimes people just don't give a damn. Lizard (talk) 15:48, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks, guys! I'm glad we're on the same page now! I'll start on Monday, May 29, when I return from vacation. Corkythe  hornetfan  (ping me) 18:31, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Northern Illinois Huskies athletic director navbox
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Speedy deletion nomination of Point Skyhawks football


A tag has been placed on Point Skyhawks football requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a club, society, or group, but it does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the. Nördic Nightfury  09:33, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you for expanding and cleaning up the schedule of the 1939 Villanova Wildcats football team. I really appreciate it. ChuckNoll vs Vince Lombardi (talk) 17:06, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Thursday June 22: Wiki Loves Pride Edit-a-thon @ MoMA
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A kitten for you!
Thank you for helping out some parts of the "college section" about Datone Jones.

 UCLAgirl623  (Whats up!) 18:57, 18 June 2017 (UTC) 

Comments requested
Jweiss, please see User talk:Lizard the Wizard. Thanks. Corkythe hornetfan  (ping me) 06:34, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Union Bulldogs (Kentucky) football
I reverted your edit on Union Bulldogs (Kentucky) football. The subject isn't notable. I will nominate for deletion if this persists. Chris Troutman ( talk ) 20:52, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

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Template:Infobox NCAA football school
Jweiss, what's your opinion on the white box around the logos? I'm thinking of removing it because personally, I don't think it needs to be there, but it would also be consistent with other college sports infoboxes. I've done a test on it at Template:Infobox NCAA football school/testcases and personally think it looks better without the box... thoughts? Corkythe hornetfan  (ping me) 06:53, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

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Bob Foster (American football, born 1941)
This article does not quite make sense. The head coaching records numbers do not calculate, and the infobox list of positions cannot be accurate since he was never a head coach at Oregon. I'm guessing a copy and paste error. Aboutmovies (talk) 03:40, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Aboutmovies, thanks for making those catches. The head coaching record total must have been a copy/paste error.  And Foster was the defensive coordinator at Oregon.  I just made those fixes. Jweiss11 (talk) 14:49, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Sunday July 30: Action=History Wiki-Hackathon @ Ace Hotel
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Survey Invite
I'm working on a study of political motivations and how they affect editing. I'd like to ask you to take a survey. The survey should take 5 minutes. Your survey responses will be kept private. Our project is documented at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Wikipedia_%2B_Politics.

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Idaho's colors
White font on Idaho's gold is nowhere compliant... see here. Black (#000005 according to the university brand guide is much easier to read... see here. A couple of us who primarily work at the module agreed on this a while back due to a disagreement with how the colors should be used for that team. Corkythe hornetfan  (ping me) 03:37, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks for filling me in. The Idaho navboxes were not all the same.  Some had white font.  Some had black.  Can we get them all synced up?  Thanks. Jweiss11 (talk) 03:39, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Should be good now. Thanks, Corkythe hornetfan  (ping me) 03:47, 31 July 2017 (UTC)

Michigan articles
I'm not going to reinstate the edits you reverted, but I'm not sure how many of our readers even know about navbox header links. Lepricavark (talk) 17:32, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
 * The see also sections will get out off control if we follow this course and its run against our editing standards thus far. Jweiss11 (talk) 19:01, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

Unknown parameters in Infobox college coach
Do you want help tackling Category:Pages using infobox college coach with unsupported parameters since there's ~880 articles using an unknown parameter (more than likely CFbDWID)? I'll be glad to help before my life starts to get busy within the next couple of weeks... Corkythe hornetfan  (ping me) 07:21, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Pro Football Hall of Fame logo.png
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Edward H. Adams
Did you see I found his middle name and a portrait? --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 02:31, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

August 30: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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Category:Susquehanna Crusaders football has been nominated for discussion
Category:Susquehanna Crusaders football, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to see if it abides with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Billcasey905 (talk) 16:43, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

September 27: WikiWednesday Salon / Wikimedia NYC Annual Meeting
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 * P.S. On the weekend before the annual meeting, you can join: Action=History @ Ace Hotel (Sunday, September 24, 2017)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Boston College Eagles athletic director navbox
Template:Boston College Eagles athletic director navbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Corkythe hornetfan  (ping me) 00:37, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 2
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 * J. M. Fretz ([//toolserver.org/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/J._M._Fretz check to confirm] | [//toolserver.org/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/J._M._Fretz?client=notify fix with Dab solver])
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 * added a link pointing to Bethel College

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Joint project
Hello JW. Was wondering if you have ideas for any new or expanded undertakings to improve college football coverage. It would be nice to work with you on a joint project of some sort. Let me know any time if you have thoughts along these lines. Cbl62 (talk) 21:14, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Cbl, what you think about filling all remaining gaps for coaches of FBS programs where the article is missing or in really bad shape? Jweiss11 (talk) 05:15, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Is there a list of such coaches? Cbl62 (talk) 07:56, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
 * There's no list exactly, but you can sort through all the relevant navboxes at WikiProject_College_football/Coach_Navboxes. Jweiss11 (talk) 18:15, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Sunday October 15: Wikipedia @ Open House New York / Weekend Photo Competition
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October 18: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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Metropolitan Museum of Art Edit-a-thon (Nov 19) and global online Wikipedia Asian Art Month (Nov 1-30)
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User:Drew1830
May I ask your input on a matter. User:Drew1830 has been inserting coaching and support staff sections into all Miami season articles, which by itself is fine. However, his edits are problematic in that (i) he has been formatting these things in ways that are incorrect (overcapitalization, misplacement, lack of citations), (ii) when I tried to clean up his work, he immediately reverted, (iii) when I asked him to stop and discuss, he refused and continued reverting, and (iv) he takes the position that the articles are "his work" and that nobody should change them without first discussing with him.

Carleton Knights football
Thank you for reviewing Carleton Knights football. If you have any suggestions for improving the article, please let me know. I don't know what rem stands for in the edit summary so I don't know why you removed the coaches template or Carleton Knights category. - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 14:26, 5 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Mnnlaxer, thanks for the message and your work on the Carleton Knights football article. "Rem" simply stands for "remove" in those edit summaries.  I removed the coaches navbox because it's not standard to put those navboxes on any team article; see Michigan Wolverines football and many others.  Generally speaking, an article should not sit on a given category and a parent or child of that category.  Since Category:Carleton Knights football is a child of Category:Carleton Knights, it over-categorization to put Carleton Knights football in both.  See Categorization for more on that.  Jweiss11 (talk) 14:38, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clean up. I improved the layout and added a bit. Not a big deal, but don't you think the article is above start class? I also think the coaches template should stay. Articles like Michigan have lots of coaches wikilinked in the text and a link to coaches in the main template. For Carleton, it provides a lot of unique information. - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 23:20, 5 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The article is maybe borderline C-class. It could still be expanded a great deal.  Many of those coaches, like Walter Hass, should be mentioned in the body of the article.  Also, the line in the lead about Carleton winning "winning 20 conference championships from 1905 to 1956" is dubious.  I'm not sure they were a member of any conference before 1920.  I see that the Carleton website notes "1905: The Carleton football team wins the first of 10 championships in the next 13 seasons."  I think these championships may have been some sort of state championship among the small Minnesota schools, not a conference championship. Jweiss11 (talk) 02:08, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok. It could obviously be expanded, it just doesn't resemble the start-class description at all. But not important. You're right on the almost OR for 20 championships. Pre 1920, I've seen references to Minnesota Collegiate Athletic Conference (unfortunately a juco conference now) and the Minnesota-Dakota Conference. I'd be fine with whatever you think appropriate for the lead. - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 03:26, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I tend to be pretty conservative on rating articles. Feel free to ask others at WikiProject College football to review the article.  I won't protest if anyone rates it C-class.  It definitely needs some work for B-class.  As for the lead, I think we ought to go with the 11 verifiable conference championships. Jweiss11 (talk) 03:42, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I guess you are. (I guess not all the time ) Besides the current ref to 10 out of 13 championships from 1905 to 1917, there is this on page 108, "Since 1895 and including the present year [1915], Carleton has had twelve championships and has tied twice for the championship." And on page 112 says "The conference rules of the Minnesota-Dakota Conference, of which Carleton is a member..." here. I think that's good enough to keep "over 20 championships" in. What do you think? Also, please don't delete the external links to the individual records and the 1992 video. There's no justification for that. - Mnnlaxer &#124;  talk  &#124; stalk 05:19, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The justification for removing those links is we don't include oddball random external links featuring minor aspects of the subject of the article, because there's no limit to the number of such links that could be included. We also don't include links to subpages of the subject's official website.  Generally you only want to link to the subject's official website and any relevant listings in definitive resources for which external links have been standardized with a template. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:27, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

What are your sources for Eddie Lynch coaching in 1931 and George Gibson in 1938? - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 13:43, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Lynch, 1931: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/14927020/star_tribune/; Gibson, 1938: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/14926998/star_tribune/. This Eddie Lynch appears to be a different person from Eddie Lynch, but I'm not entirely convinced this isn't all the same person. Jweiss11 (talk) 13:49, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. MWC records show Carleton won championships in 1923, 1925, and 1926. http://midwestconference.org/sports/2010/7/27/GEN_0727104448.aspx - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 14:07, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I just made changes to Claude J. Hunt accordingly. Jweiss11 (talk) 14:11, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Not the same Eddie Lynch. That one, Edward J. Lynch went to Catholic from 1925 to 1929. This one, Edward B. Lynch, went to Dartmouth 1920-1922 and coached at Dartmouth, Minnesota, Carleton, Wisconsin, and Iowa. source - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 19:21, 6 November 2017 (UTC) Another Eddie B. source. - Mnnlaxer &#124;  talk  &#124; stalk 19:25, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

I started a thread on the external links I'd like to include at External links/Noticeboard. - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 15:19, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I think you are too slavishly following a standard that is too restrictive. Can you point to a college football team article that contains a good example of an allowable external link? - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 21:02, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Off the top of my head I can't think of any, aside from the official websites. Virtually all seem to just have the official website listed, and with good reason.  If someone wanted to standardized links to team pages at https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/ or another good website like that, I'd be okay with that. Jweiss11 (talk) 21:09, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Doak Walker.jpg
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 * I meant to replace that one eventually since there's a lot of PD cards to choose from but it looks like WO-9 beat me to it. Lizard (talk) 15:31, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

November 15: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC @ NYU ITP
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More Carleton Knights football
Hey, thanks for reassessing the article. Would you be interest in starting articles on Warren Beson and Dale Quist, two head football coaches? I've got some sources on the talk page. I could use your experience in starting the articles, I'll chip in after. Thanks. - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 03:40, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
 * If I kick off the Beson and Quist articles, will you give up on the 1992 video external links deal? :) Jweiss11 (talk) 16:23, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Nice try! I have no problem with the offer, but no deal. How about if you convince Beestra to allow the external link, I'll stop posting on the college football notability thread? - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 17:22, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Since some are being really stupid about this, I'll make clear that I was not serious about an actual deal. There is no way anyone would be able to convince Beestra of anything! :) - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 23:24, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Any chance you'd start those articles for me? - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 19:34, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Sure, I will get to these within the next few days. By the way, do you happen to be a Carleton alum? Jweiss11 (talk) 19:40, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
 * 1993, football player, role player, not mentioned in video. - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 07:09, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

I did Warren Beson. Can you check my work and add what you can? Thanks. - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 04:38, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for starting the article. I did some work on the it, as I think you probably saw.  I asked you earlier if you were a Carlton alum because I was wondering if you access the archive of Algol yearbooks at https://apps.carleton.edu/campus/library/now/news/?story_id=850260.  Those could be helpful in fleshing out yearly records and figuring out or confirming who the head coach was in some of those early years where the records area fuzzy. Jweiss11 (talk) 21:46, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I do have access. Looks like they are digitized back to 1890. If there are any particular years to start with, let me know. Thanks. - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 22:01, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * There may be good information in the 1993 Algol that could help improve 1992 Carleton Knights football team. Cbl62 (talk) 01:09, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * well, to start, we still don't know who the head coach was in 1898–1902 and 1906. And we're missing yearly records for J. Arthur Baird, Maury Kent, Claude J. Hunt, Cub Buck, Eddie Lynch (American football coach), George Gibson (American football), Walter Hass, and Warren Beson. Jweiss11 (talk) 02:51, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Dispute resolution
This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! (on behalf of User:Mnnlaxer) --Dirk Beetstra T  C 06:54, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I gave up on this. - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 19:35, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Would you mind...
... helping this user out? He didn't like my response to him on his talk page that we use the seasons they start coaching in the infobox... claiming it was "unsourced". Thanks, Corky Buzz by the Hornet's Nest  16:39, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

December 13: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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Speedy deletion nomination of Pomona-Pitzer Sagehens


A tag has been placed on Pomona-Pitzer Sagehens, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G4 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion discussion, such as at Articles for deletion. When a page has substantially identical content to that of a page deleted after a discusion, and any changes in the content do not address the reasons for which the material was previously deleted, it may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. James (talk/contribs) 21:36, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

Naming Conventions - I Would Like Your Input
I believe there is a naming convention to use, for example, when referring to NAIA college teams. Often, I have seen the state abbreviation after a college. Sometimes, it is omitted. I have seen abbreviations with the 2 upper-case postal abbreviations, and I have seen some with a 3-character abbreviation followed by a period. Examples might be: Saint Francis, Saint Francis (IN), or Saint Francis (Ind.) Is there somewhere in Wikipedia that presents a style book, including which names should have a clarifying abbreviation and which names should omit any abbreviations? Thanks. Jlhcpa (talk) 20:43, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
 * A parenthetical, two-letter state code should be used in infobox and tables only when the short name along is ambiguous. Kevin Donley's infobox is a great example.  He's managed to coach at four schools where the short name alone would be ambiguous without that state code.  However, these parenthetical state codes seem to be overused in many places, like the tournament bracket at 2015 NAIA Football National Championship.  There's only one "Doane" in American college sports, the teams of Doane University.  So that parenthetical "(NE)" is not needed there. Jweiss11 (talk) 00:07, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

University of Detroit
In researching the University of Detroit football team articles, I've learned that the team wasn't known as the "Titans" until 1924.
 * In early years, there was no nickname, and they were simply known simply at the "University of Detroit" football team. In those years, "19xx Detroit football team" seems too ambiguous. We sometimes use the full school name to disambiguate, e.g. Boston College Eagles football. That seems like the better solution in the years where U. of D. had no nickname, e.g., "19xx University of Detroit football team". What do you think?
 * By the early 1920s (including 1921 Detroit Titans football team), the football teams were known as the "Tigers", but "1921 Detroit Tigers football team" creates ambiguity with the 1921 Detroit Tigers (NFL) season (less problematic, but there are is also 1921 Detroit Tigers season). My contemplated solution for such years would be "1921 University of Detroit Tigers football team". What do you think? Cbl62 (talk) 22:05, 15 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Boston College might not be the best comparison, because the "College" there is used conventionally in the short name. The team is never referred to just as "Boston".  But your point about clarity and ambiguity with other early University of Detroit teams is a good one.  Might be worth bring this up at WT:CFB to get more imput. Jweiss11 (talk) 23:59, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I've expanded the article on James F. Duffy and have also expanded the season articles for the years of his tenure. Would you be willing to add one of your "coaching record" charts to the Duffy article?  Cbl62 (talk) 21:22, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I added the head coaching record table and make some other edits to the article. Related question: if you are taking the time to make schedule tables for articles like 1919 Detroit Titans football team, why aren't you using the standard templates/formatting? Jweiss11 (talk) 04:09, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for doing that. I find the standard template for schedule tables to be very complicated and time consuming. A simple table is much easier and faster. So far as I can tell, the only thing lacking from the simple table is the pink/green shading, and I think I've seen someone add the shading somewhere to a simple table.  Do you know how I could add the shading? Cbl62 (talk) 05:15, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Cbl, those templates aren't optional for editors who don't like them. In not using them, you are undermining a very long-standing, core consensus and setting a bad example for new editors.  Those templates really aren't that much more time-consuming to implement than the manually rendered tables you are making.  What certainly takes more time is the amount of time you are spending making on your non-standard tables plus the time that I or another editor will have to spend redoing them properly.  In addition to using the schedule templates, you should also make use of Template:Cfb link wherever applicable.  This keeps all the link pointing to the most relevant articles as new program and season articles are created. Jweiss11 (talk) 22:11, 19 December 2017 (UTC)


 * As for Template:Cfblink, I will try to do better. I like the automatic updating function quite a lot, but sometimes I forget to use it (or get lazy). When I do remember, I get hit with warnings about excessive use of the template. Why do we get these warnings? Isn't there some way to squash/suppress/kill the warnings? Cbl62 (talk) 01:30, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I applied it at here. Is the "school" field required in addition to the "team" field, or does the "team" field suffice? Cbl62 (talk) 01:41, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
 * As for the "CFB Schedule Entry" table entries, there is a huge variation in the Schedule tables that I've encountered in season articles (see, e.g., the godawful versions at 1951 Louisville and 1951 Wash. St.). And, frankly, I lack the massive patience needed to work through the tedious data entry process for each and every game entry. For me, if it were a strict choice between following that process or not creating a table at all, I'd opt for the latter. What I've tried to do is use a simple table alternative that that my impatient mind can tolerate, and which also preserves (to the best of my understanding) all of the functionality, except for the color coding (and Mnnlaxer's suggestion above appears to solve that issue as well). Many of our season articles have been lingering for months or years with no schedule charts (see, e.g., 1880 Stevens before my additions).  Do you really think it's preferable to leave these articles with no Schedule charts as opposed to having me (and other impatient editors) do the best that I (they) can to create something decent and functional?  Cbl62 (talk) 01:30, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Cbl62, you can put "|- bgcolor=#dfd" on rows for wins, and "|- bgcolor=#fdd" on rows for losses. Jweiss11, besides undermining consensus, setting a bad example, and your time, what is the actual harm of using a simple table?
 * Thank you for that. I applied that to 1929 Detroit Titans football team. Is there also a matching color code for ties (as seen in 1992 Michigan)? Thanks in advance. Cbl62 (talk) 01:30, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
 * #ffffe6 you're welcome. - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 02:35, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, Cbl, yes I would prefer if you didn't waste time making non-compliant schedule tables if you find yourself unable to do them properly, and spent your time on something more productive. The 1951 Louisville and 1951 Washington State examples are non-compliant outliers.  They shouldn't be used as an excuse to make more of a mess, which is what you are doing.  Please cease your flouting of the consensus on schedule tables!  Jweiss11 (talk) 04:18, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The last thing I wish to do is to pick a fight with you, but I really don't see what's objectionable about the Schedule chart I added to 1929 or 1947 Detroit Titans. Can you explain in what way those charts are functionally less effective or visually less appealing than your preferred version? Or, in your words, "a mess"? It appears to me that the end products are the same. Cbl62 (talk) 07:13, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Cbl, your manual tables in these examples don't support game times, non-conference opponent indicators, rankings, rivalry links, TV information, and attendance. Now, in principal you could manually add those things in, where appropriate.  But the template facilitates standard formatting for all these elements.  Using the templates also makes it much easier down the road if we decide the change the style or content of the tables.  Imagine if we discovered that there was a contrast issue with the colors we're using to denote wins, losses, and ties?  What's easier, making one edit in the template or editing thousands of articles?  What you are doing by creating these manual tables is forking the style of the season articles and undermining the consistency of the encyclopedia.  Please stop already?  If you find the schedule tables so cumbersome to create properly, just skip them.  Someone else can do them later. Jweiss11 (talk) 01:53, 22 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The point about additional columns/indicators isn't persuasive, as those could easily be added to a manual chart. In fact, attendance is already included in 1947 Detroit Titans football team and all of my manual charts where attendance was readily available. So have rivalry links where applicable (see 1910 Western and 1910 Central Michigan). Most of the other columns/indicators don't apply as I've been working on older, unranked independent teams. Game time has typically only been included for the modern era seasons. Your second point about "macro" level changes in coding is worth pondering. Here's what I'll do --  let me finish the University of Detroit sequence that I've already started. Then I'll stop to ponder and discuss further. One of my concerns is that, if I don't add the Schedule charts, they seemingly never get added. Then we get criticized for their absence. If only there was someone with the requisite patience who could be recruited to create them.  My plan had been to create them for U-D, then Michigan State, then Directional Michigan (Central, Eastern, Western), then the Big Three (Harvard, Princeton, Yale).  You say someone else can create the charts later, but these are article series that have gone literally years (I started 1922 Harvard Crimson football team and 1921 Princeton Tigers football team in August 2014!) without schedule tables. Cbl62 (talk) 02:34, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * FYI, others have been using simple tables to mimic the functionality of "CFB Schedule Entry" for quite some time. See, e.g., 1888 Wake Forest-1976 Wake Forest (tables created 2008 by Rebajc3), 1923 Clemson-1962 Clemson (tables created 2011 by Spyder Monkey), 1942-1959 Duke (tables created Feb. 2017 by Hockeyben). Cbl62 (talk) 05:15, 22 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Those tables are a pain in the ass for me, and I know more about templates than the average editor. BTW, the "bowl=no" on the yearly record start to suppress the bowls column doesn't work. The label goes away but there is still a column of blanks. Also, the basic usage example that everyone copies, "team =" doesn't seem to be a parameter in use. I literally cannot imagine a problem with color contrast in the future. You are vastly overstating the importance of the consistency of the encyclopedia. On the front end, it matters very little, but on the back end? Not one whit. Finally, on 1921 Tigers, "an end with the surname Sniveley" cannot possibly be real, right? With no sources included in the article, I cannot verify it. - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 05:02, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Whoops, my first comments are about the multi-year season record templates. The multi-game opponent templates are easier, but not easy. And much of the detail is often not needed. I updated 1947 Detroit Titans formatting. You don't need to put cellpadding in, it is deprecated. I would not use column widths, the wikitable handles column widths very well automatically. The "|+" is for a caption above the first row, "outside" the table. Also, I added a column for the references, which I think is a huge improvement on the standard templates. I think that's the sound of Jweiss11's head exploding.  - Mnnlaxer &#124;  talk  &#124; stalk 05:16, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I just found an awesome tool to use for tables: Mediawiki Table Generator. You can right align a column with a click! - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 05:47, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

Cbl, you need to stop immediately with this counterproductive editing. That you're offering non-compliant examples by editors clearly ignorant of our many of our best practices is, frankly, intellectually dishonest. Those Wake Forest and Duke articles all need be cleaned up. The more time you spend making improper tables that I and others have to clean up, the less time we have to clean other articles and building out tables for the season article that are missing them. My point about "macro level changes in coding" isn't worth pondering. It, along with my point about consistency between related/parallel articles, should be simply accepted and mark the end of this discussion. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:34, 22 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Mnnlaxer, consistently doesn't matter on the front end or the back end? Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Jweiss11 (talk) 05:36, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes. Maybe you could make your point rather than ask rhetorical questions. - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 05:47, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * It surely doesn't seem like you have any idea what your are talking about because you assertion is absurd, that consistency doesn't matter on the back end or the front end. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:48, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * JW - I offered a reasonable compromise, to finish the UD articles I started and then talk further. I truly do not want to fight with you, as we should be supporting each other's efforts on common topics. But you have now officially thrown a hissy fit and begun a campaign of vandalism by removing every schedule table from the UD articles. This is blatant vandalism. Cease and desist now! Cbl62 (talk) 05:53, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Cbl, you are flouting consensus and providing a misdirecting to unwitting editors. End of discussion.  Start editing properly. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:55, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

Template thoughts
Take a look at this navbox. I think at the FBS level this can be useful but adding FCS, D2, D3 is a bit much. Especially when you take into account only one D2 game has a page, and likely the others won't be created well enough to avoid a merge request like the 08, and 09 pages. And if so, wouldn't they be best served as their own navbox.UCO2009bluejay (talk) 22:49, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps that navbox should just be deleted. Jweiss11 (talk) 23:40, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Ernest Hawkins
Hello. I wanted to know why you deleted much of Coach Hawkins accomplishments at Texas Tech and his success as assistant coach at East Texas State? Also, The 1980 season the ETSU Lions finished first in the LSC among teams that were not members of the NCAA. If you need an explanation as to what happened to make that season strange, I would be happy to provide information.

Thanks


 * The standard in Template:Infobox college coach is only to include championships won as a head coach. Yes, can you give some more detail about the 1980 Lone Star Conference season?  The conference's media guide (https://www.slideshare.net/lscmedia/2017-lsc-football-media-guide) doesn't give any insight there. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:27, 20 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Here is the detail on the 1980 season:

https://thelionwire.com/2017/07/27/championship-chronicles-part-19-1980-east-texas-state-lions/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lion1407 (talk • contribs) 04:31, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

OCR
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/15888120/coach_baird_arrives/ Did you add in the OCR manually or was it automatic? I do not see that feature in my account. --RAN (talk) 14:21, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
 * When I logged out and back in, I have the OCR feature too. Was it added last night when it was offline for a few hours? --RAN (talk) 15:13, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what you mean by OCR here. Jweiss11 (talk)
 * Richard - The "Clip" feature has been available at newspapers.com for quite sometime and is very useful; where employed, it allows even nonsubscribers to see and verify the articles. BTW, and for Jweiss' benefit, "OCR" means optical character recognition, a mechanism to scan documents into a text-searchable format. Cbl62 (talk) 02:50, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

Happy holidays!
'''May the peace and tranquility of a winter snow be with you this holiday (and bowl) season. And may conflicts be resolved and left behind us!''' Cbl62 (talk) 05:52, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Cbl, best wishes to you too. Jweiss11 (talk) 21:57, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Questions
Can you tell me what core Wikipedia principles does having exactly similar tables in appearance and code support? Because if in fact there aren't any core principles that you can cite, it would be intellectually dishonest for you to claim so. And just for fun, without any threat of sanction because I don't think you'll do it again, would you be willing to consult a Third Opinion as to whether blanking 30 sourced tables is vandalism? - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 06:48, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Per principles, see the lead of Manual of Style, particularly: "The goal is to make using Wikipedia easier and more intuitive by promoting clarity and cohesion, while helping editors write articles with consistent and precise language, layout, and formatting." If you would like to get a third opinion on my alleged vandalism, go for it.  I consider my actions a bold move made in an attempt to stop another editor from deliberating flouting consensus when talk seemed be failing to convince them to do so. Jweiss11 (talk) 16:43, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * No one considers the MOS a core principle, it's not even a policy. And that quote doesn't apply to your blanking 30 sourced tables because they were formatted consistently with other tables. OK, like I said, I'm not trying to be punitive. But I do think it would be beneficial to get an outside opinion to resolve our disagreement. - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 17:53, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I said something about the vandalism part. You could say something about the unjustified part. - Mnnlaxer &#124; talk  &#124; stalk 14:59, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

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