User talk:Jweiss11/Archives/2018

Rivalry
Do you know how the process started of capitalizing "Rivalry" in the season schedule charts? Rivalry is not a proper noun and should not be capitalized in this sort of parenthetical usage. We've gotten much better as a project in recent years in removing unneeded capitalization. The initial caps version has been littered all across the season pages, but really ought to be corrected. Thoughts? Cbl62 (talk) 16:14, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Not sure how it exactly how it started, but I think you are correct about the capitalization there. We could probably have a bot sweep through and correct that. Jweiss11 (talk) 16:16, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
 * If that's something that can be done by a bot, I'd support that 100%. A whole lot easier than trying to do it manually. Cbl62 (talk) 16:17, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

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Orphaned non-free image File:Eastern Intercollegiate Volleyball Association logo.gif
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Southern Alabama Jaguars coach navbox
I have moved it to your user space. In the future, would you rather just have me to that? Also, would you just want football or would you like basketball and baseball too? Corky 18:44, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that would be great. You can do that with any college coach or athletic director navbox. Jweiss11 (talk) 02:29, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I've moved Template:Mississippi State Bulldogs women's basketball coach navbox to your user space as well. Corky  16:04, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Any reason why Template:Mississippi State Bulldogs women's basketball coach navbox is apparently your property and not appearing on articles anymore? Mississippi State's now the only SEC team without one, and a lot of less notable ones do too. This should be restored ASAP. Jhn31 (talk) 20:16, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Sure, it can be restored... once there are four (4) coaches articles that have been created. There's only two right now and currently fails Wikipedia's guidelines. If it gets restored without having at least four articles created, I'll just AFD it again. As you can see from the last AFD, it was going to be deleted.  Corky  20:26, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * It's because it has less than four working blue links. Corky has been on a mission for some time to TfD all such navboxes.  This is not something I've been totally on board with, but I've asked him to userfy such college coach navboxes in lieu of deleting them.  How about you just create an article for one of the red links and then we can move the the navbox back to the mainspace?  Jweiss11 (talk) 20:28, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * That's pretty asinine, Corky. Women's basketball hasn't really been around long enough for a lot of prestigious programs to even have 4 coaches, and/or enough dedicated fans to write articles about the coaches from the 1970s. Are you going to delete Stanford, Tennessee, etc., too? Even if you're technically just enforcing a rule, there needs to be some discretion on these matters, and removing all these navboxes is needlessly ticky-tack. At any rate, I have created 2 articles to satisfy the requirement and will create the rest soon, so Mississippi State's can be restored. However, I think if the college sports editing community at large was aware of these deletions, they wouldn't have made it through a TFD in the first place, at least not for obviously high-notability programs. Jhn31 (talk) 22:02, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, that's your opinion. The purpose for red links is that they will be created (soon) after the templates are created. Not some years down the road. The purpose of navboxes is to, which doesn't happen when there are less than three or four links. There is nothing wrong with not having a navbox, categories to the job just fine. If you really want have something at the bottom of the pages, then you can use a . Tennessee should be moved to user space until it has four or more links for the template to be used in, and Stanford has three so it's fine. Corky  22:12, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Whatever you do, do not use a succession box for coaching successions! We purposefully phased those out several years ago. Jweiss11 (talk) 00:47, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Ole Miss Football
Looks like a few people keeps removing wins as you are aware of I am sure. Is there a way to make it where they are not able to remove any wins before they supposed to be removed? Thank you MDSanker 03:07, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

IP created roster at 1972 Michigan
Curious what you think of the IP user's efforts at converting the roster at 1972 Michigan Wolverines football team. I think it looks like a mess. Cbl62 (talk) 14:36, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Also at 1970 Michigan Wolverines football team. Cbl62 (talk) 14:37, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Total messes.  Those roster templates aren't designed to hold all the information. Jweiss11 (talk) 20:21, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * A different wrinkle at 1970 Michigan Wolverines football team. Thoughts? Cbl62 (talk) 02:47, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I like the standard formatting with the roster templates, but I don't like the loss of info. Would be nice to get this IP user engaged in discussion and ideally registered. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:12, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

WP:AC/DS notice
Casting WP:ASPERSIONS like "intellectually dishonest" at people pointing out that you are using the wrong renaming process is precisely the kind of behavior ArbCom warned against in renaming-related discussions, at WP:ARBATC. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  17:59, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Personal attack
is a blatant personal attack.

WP:CFDS says:

When handling the listings: 1. Make sure that the listing meets one of the above criteria.

That is what I have been doing. Any admin is entitled to do their job without being subject to personal abuse. Please retract that attack promptly and unequivocally. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:14, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

February 21: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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UC Davis Football
I got a very nice e-mail back from the Interim Director of Athletic Communications at UC Davis today. I had asked for information about the location of their early games and about the team name. His recommendation is that we use "University Farm" (without the word Aggies) up until 1922, then "Cal Aggies" from 1922 through 1958. Ocfootballknut (talk) 15:29, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
 * So now we know "interim director of athletic communications" is at least how far down you have to go to get a response from anyone in the college administration heirarchy. Lizard  (talk) 15:49, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Ocfootballknut, thanks for reaching out to UC Davis. This recommendation would inform a move of 1955 Northern Branch Aggies football team to 1955 Cal Aggies football team.  How then would we represent the "Cal Aggies" in places where the fight name is typically omitted, like Template:1955 Far Western Conference football standings or the infobox for Ted Forbes?  "Cal" alone would be a bit ambiguous, lending to confusion with the California Golden Bears.  Lizard, I've emailed a bunch of sports info directors at various school and typically do get a timely response. Jweiss11 (talk) 17:46, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I've looked at a lot of Far Western Conference listings from newspapers in that era. Here's some examples of how they listed the teams:Ocfootballknut (talk) 07:02, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

* 1939: Standings: Fresno, Cal Aggies, Chico, Pacific, Nevada * 1940: Team List: California Aggies, College of the Pacific, Fresno State, Chico State * 1947: Team List: Humboldt State, California Aggies, Chico State, Southern Oregon, San Francisco State * 1952: Standings: Humboldt, Chico, SOCE (for Southern Oregon College of Education), Cal Aggies * 1952: Team List: California Aggies, Humboldt State, Chico State, Southern Oregon * 1954: Standings: San Francisco State, Chico State, Nevada, Sacramento State, California Aggies, Humboldt State


 * Why not just make an exception and say "Cal Aggies" in the standings and infoboxes? It's not terribly long and seems more elegant than "Cal (Davis)" or "Cal (Aggies). Cbl62 (talk) 18:15, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Guess I was just aiming too high when I emailed the NCAA's head statistician to try to convince them to fix their record book. Lizard  (talk) 18:20, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Wait a minute. I reach out the the CORRECT UC Davis person according to their website, he has his staff research this, the staff talks to former players and coaches, I get exactly the information I was looking for, and somebody thinks I started too low on some fictional totem pole? How elitist is that? Ocfootballknut (talk) 06:42, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
 * My comment was intended as a lighthearted statement on how difficult it can be to get a reply back from officials, at least in my experience. It wasn't targeted at you at all. I also wasn't entirely serious. Lizard  (talk) 07:26, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I've had great success in getting responses from people at the various colleges or conferences I've been working on. Even had a couple of head coaches respond to SID office queries. On the other hand, when I was working on golf articles a couple of years ago the response / follow-up was underwhelming. I understood the humor, just don't like belittling a helpful 'source', even in jest.Ocfootballknut (talk) 16:02, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Seems like "Cal Aggies" is the way to go. Jweiss11 (talk) 21:20, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

andy smith
Hi, I think we should leave the "Andy" in there. That indicates that its the name he went by, no specific story behind it. Without it the reader will be curious why the section it is Andy in the title, but Andrew as the name. Rybkovich (talk) 06:43, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Rybkovich, my understanding is that there is a site-wide consensus/guideline that obvious nicknames like this should be removed from the bolded statement of a biography subject's name at the start of lead. Let me see if I can locate this. Jweiss11 (talk) 13:39, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I found it at Manual of Style/Biographies: It is not always necessary to spell out why the article title and lead paragraph give a different name. If a person has a common[c] English-language hypocorism (diminutive or abbreviation) used in lieu of a given name, it is not presented between quotation marks or parentheses into or after their name. Jweiss11 (talk) 13:47, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Got it, good to know. Rybkovich (talk) 05:20, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Schedule variation
Have you seen this schedule format before? I am generally not a fan of further complicating the schedule, but wondered what you think. Cbl62 (talk) 15:02, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Are you referring to the subheadings for non-conference and conference game? If so, I have seen them before and typically delete them upon sight.  Such headers do, however, appear to standard operating procedure for college basketball schedule tables; see 2017–18 Duke Blue Devils men's basketball team. Jweiss11 (talk) 16:44, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
 * yes, that’s what I was referring to. Hadn’t seen it before. Doesn’t seem like a useful variation to me since we already have an indicator for non-conference games. Cbl62 (talk)
 * Agreed. And non-conference games aren’t always played in a block at the beginning of the season.  Let’s nuke these on sight.  Jweiss11 (talk) 17:56, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

USC Methodists
Going through some old USC pages and notice that the school name "Loyola" is used in the 1894, 1897, 1899, 1900, 1901, 1902, & 1909 schedules. In all of those years the school was named St. Vincent's College (it's correct on the 1889 page). The Loyola name didn't come about until 1918. I also notice that the 1910 USC page has Throop Academy instead of Throop Polytechnic University or just Throop, and no link to Caltech. Are these just oversights? Ocfootballknut (talk) 07:12, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'd say they are oversights as that all originates from the now-defunct article USC Methodists football, 1888–1910, which was not done the best style in mind. Jweiss11 (talk) 13:16, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Any idea when the Lions fight name came unto use for St. Vincent's / Loyola? Jweiss11 (talk) 13:19, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Doing a newspapers.com search for "Loyola Lions" shows first usage of that term in Nov 1924. Same search in genealogybank.com shows first usage of "Loyola Lions" in 1925. The Loyola Marymount page http://www.lmulions.com/trads/mascot.html says that the Lion as a nickname was suggested in 1919, but it didn't hold. The college newspaper in Oct 1923 said that it would be officially implemented. Local newspaper articles during football season in 1923 don't use the name, nor do articles for basketball in 1924. It's football season in 1924 where the LA Times first uses the term Lions so I'd say we would use 1924 as the beginning.Ocfootballknut (talk) 05:42, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Edward J. Hickox


The article Edward J. Hickox has been proposed for deletion because it appears to have no references. Under Wikipedia policy, this biography of a living person will be deleted after seven days unless it has at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article.

If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Referencing for beginners, or ask at the help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the prod blp/dated tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within seven days, the article may be deleted, but you can when you are ready to add one. MensanDeltiologist (talk) 19:08, 16 March 2018 (UTC)


 * Just a FYI re: your edit summary. A blp prod has zilch to do with notability and everything to do with lack of sources.  MensanDeltiologist (talk) 03:14, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Template:Prod blp is supposed to be used for biographies of living people. Hickox has been dead since 1966. Jweiss11 (talk) 13:20, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

My mistake then. But at least it has a reference now.

John C. Karel
Hi-I read through several newspapers using Badgerlink and I did come across an article about John C. Karel coaching the Lawrence College Football Team in 1896. That was in the Oshkosh Daily Northwestern newspaper. I expanded the article to included his career with the Wisconsin Badgers. I did reread his obituary for 1938 and there was no mention that he coach the Lawrence College football team. Also the Wisconsin Blue Book 1901 entry made no mention of Karel coaching the Lawrence College football. Many thanks-RFD (talk) 09:25, 17 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi-the only reference I found about John C. Karel coaching the Lawrence College Football Team was in the Oshkosh Daily Northwestern newspaper. See above Would you please add the citation you found about John C. Karel coaching the Lawrence Vikings to the article? I am wondering if he was with the Lawrence Vikings briefly-interim? Thank you-RFD (talk) 10:03, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

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March 21: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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New page reviewer granted
Hello Jweiss11. Your account has been added to the " " user group, allowing you to review new pages and mark them as patrolled, tag them for maintenance issues, or in some cases, tag them for deletion. The list of articles awaiting review is located at the New Pages Feed. New page reviewing is a vital function for policing the quality of the encylopedia; if you have not already done so, you must read the new tutorial at New Pages Review, the linked guides and essays, and fully understand the various deletion criteria. If you need more help or wish to discuss the process, please join or start a thread at page reviewer talk. The reviewer right does not change your status or how you can edit articles. If you no longer want this user right, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. In case of abuse or persistent inaccuracy of reviewing, the right can be revoked at any time by an administrator. ~ Amory  (u • t • c) 17:00, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
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New Page Review Newsletter No.10
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Lower division college basketball coach navboxes
We have generally not created these below the D1 level (or programs that used to be D1 or equivalent) because A) nobody is creating the articles for every coach, and B) the modern coaches for these schools often aren’t notable because they may not receive media coverage beyond their local paper. In fact, a number of these were deleted because about a year ago. I realize this is different than how you guys treat college football coach navboxes, but I thought I’d let you know. I’m assuming you aren’t planning to create articles for those red links. Rikster2 (talk) 03:45, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
 * As far I know, the only coach navboxes that were deleted were ones that didn't have a minimum number of four blues links. Template:Washington University Bears men's basketball coach navbox has eight and Template:Wittenberg Tigers men's basketball coach navbox has six, plus Bob Hamilton also coached at Navy, surely he is notable.  Who is "you guys"? Jweiss11 (talk) 04:30, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
 * so, you aren’t planning to create any of those red links. Got it.Rikster2 (talk) 04:44, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Immediately, no. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:45, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
 * or ever be honest. The navboxes have less than half blue links and aren’t ever going to be filled in, just like Johns Hopkins, etc. I didn’t ask you to delete them, I just was telling you the reason there aren’t navboxes for every level like with football. Rikster2 (talk) 04:47, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
 * What exactly am I being dishonest about? Do you think I'm unaware of the population counts of these coaching navboxes across sports? Jweiss11 (talk) 04:52, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
 * What I am saying is that there are hundreds of red links already for D1 coaches and lower division templates just add to that number. Hey, I have created them myself (like Washburn) but only is more than half the coaches already have articles. They just create work and all they solve is filling a gap at the bottom of a page that doesn’t need to be filled. Like I said, I didn’t ask you to delete them, just making you aware of the problem for if you decide to do these in the future. Rikster2 (talk) 04:56, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
 * They don't create work. The facilitate navigation between the articles that do exist.  If Matt Croci is notable, then the article about him needs to be created whether or not Template:Wittenberg Tigers men's basketball coach navbox exists.  That navbox facilitates navigation between the six Wittenberg coaches that already have article and offer context about each's tenure.
 * Well, that would be the question wouldn’t it? Are these coaches actually notable? REDNOT says “Do not create red links to articles that are not likely to be created and retained in Wikipedia.” Templates are generally only links so if you’re creating something that has 75% redlinks of articles where the coaches may not be notable and for which there is no passion around creating the articles then what is the use? There is at least some commitment to create D1 coaches, albeit slowly. I don’t believe the will is there for most lower division coaches. At least it never has been. Rikster2 (talk) 05:09, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, the more Division I gets squared away, the more bandwidth everyone will have to focus on lower divisions. I don't plan to make a DIII basketball navbox for every program I come across that has 3+ coaches with articles.  But Wittenberg and Washington University seemed worthwhile given that 1) they already have 6 and 8 coaches with articles, 2) Wittenberg has been one of the most successful sub DI programs, and 3) Wash U was a long-time member of the Missouri Valley Conference and played many of the big boys in the first half of the 20th century. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:27, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Infobox question
What infobox would be appropriate for Austin Willis (American football)? I don't think Infobox NFL player is the best option and I wasn't sure it Infobox college football player has the fields to list coaching positions? If I were to use a 'player' infobox, then I think the college football one is more appropriate as he didn't really spend much time in the NFL. I also don't want to use Infobox college coach as he has only helped coach at one university – his alma mater... Thoughts? Corky 23:46, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Infobox college football player doesn't have coaching fields but Infobox NFL player does. Might as well keep Infobox NFL player since it supports all the relevant data you'd want to put in the infobox. Jweiss11 (talk) 00:25, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I've updated it, I'll leave others to format it correctly if it's incorrect! Corky  01:00, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Can you chime in on this for me
Hey I know you edit college basketball pages frequently and I'm looking for people to help me with a content dispute I'm having with an IP that seems to be never ending. It's regarding team pages that have a table listing the seed each year the team qualified for the tournament. This IP I am debating has added the years the team missed the tournament to several pages including (and what started this) the page for Kansas. Me and 2 other editors have not only stated the years missed serve no purpose for inclusion but also that it's a consensus not to include the years missed and the IP is not backing down. The debate is at Talk:Kansas Jayhawks men's basketball. Your input would be greatly appreciated!!-- Rockchalk 717 03:37, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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Upcoming changes to wikitext parsing
Hello,

There will be some changes to the way wikitext is parsed during the next few weeks. It will affect all namespaces. You can see a list of pages that may display incorrectly at Special:LintErrors. Since most of the easy problems have already been solved at the English Wikipedia, I am specifically contacting tech-savvy editors such as yourself with this one-time message, in the hope that you will be able to investigate the remaining high-priority pages during the next month.

There are approximately 10,000 articles (and many more non-article pages) with high-priority errors. The most important ones are the articles with misnested tags and table problems. Some of these involve templates, such as infoboxes, or the way the template is used in the article. In some cases, the "error" is a minor, unimportant difference in the visual appearance. In other cases, the results are undesirable. You can see a before-and-after comparison of any article by adding ?action=parsermigration-edit to the end of a link, like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Foss?action=parsermigration-edit (which shows a difference in how infobox ship is parsed).

If you are interested in helping with this project, please see Linter. There are also some basic instructions (and links to even more information) at https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-ambassadors/2018-April/001836.html You can also leave a note at WT:Linter if you have questions.

Thank you for all the good things you do for the English Wikipedia. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:18, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Bo McMillan.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Bo McMillan.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:45, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

This article "might" be a huge issue
See Jeffery Thompson for what I am talking about. What do you think?UCO2009bluejay (talk) 17:12, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Hahaha what. Lizard  (talk) 17:36, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Why. Lizard  (talk) 17:38, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Touche.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 20:46, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Does the article pass notability?-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 20:47, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

April 2018
Your recent edits could give Wikipedia contributors the impression that you may consider legal or other "off-wiki" action against them, or against Wikipedia itself. Please note that making such threats on Wikipedia is strictly prohibited under Wikipedia's policies on legal threats and civility. Users who make such threats may be blocked. If you have a dispute with the content of any page on Wikipedia, please follow the proper channels for dispute resolution. Please be sure to comment on content, not contributors, and where possible make specific suggestions for changes supported by reliable independent sources and focusing especially on verifiable errors of fact. Thank you. Accusing other editors of "libel" may not be an actual legal threat, but it never, ever ends well. SarekOfVulcan (talk)  21:41, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * what I am supposed to do when another editor makes a false statement about me? Jweiss11 (talk) 21:44, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * "I don't believe it's accurate to accuse me of blah blah blah. Would you please retract that?" -- SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:46, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * And if they don't comply or this isn't the first time they've done so? And if they have shown a long history of ill-will towards you? Jweiss11 (talk) 21:47, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * You REALLY don't seem to get it. If you make a legal threat, you WILL be blocked. Do NOT make any legal threats. Period. --Tarage (talk) 21:49, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I promise I will not be suing anyone. But I believe that BHG made false statements about me.  That's all I meant to convey. Jweiss11 (talk) 21:50, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, then I guess BHG could request that you be blocked, since you refused to retract your accusations of dishonesty and are continuing to insult her.
 * Is this really the path you want to go down? -- SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:52, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Sarek, the approach your taking with me here is Kafkaesque. Apparently defending myself from accusations is itself a crime?  I've explained exactly what I meant by "intellectual dishonestly" and I think it's logically sound.  Now I have BHG mis-characterizing my efforts to collaborate with other editors and build consensus as "meatpuppetry".  Does this all simply come down to the fact that she's an admin and I'm not?  Can a non-admin ever question an admin? Jweiss11 (talk) 22:30, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Non-admins can question admins all the time. However, when an admin says "the policy says I can't do this", and you call them a liar, that's where things start going south. -- SarekOfVulcan (talk) 22:50, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Sarek, that's a mis-characterization of what happened. Let's me reiterate what I said at ANI:

"In that discussion, I made an accusation that BrownHairedGirl was being "intellectually dishonest". The reason I made that accusation is that in her opposition to the speedy nomination, she stated "WP:C2D is inapplicable because there is no head article: Amherst Lord Jeffs and Amherst Mammoths both redirect to Amherst College#Athletics, which mentions neither 'Mammoths' nor 'Lord Jeffs'". I responded that "'Mammoths' is mentioned in the infobox and the 'Mascot' section of Amherst College," to which she replied "please read WP:C2D. It's not long and not complex. And it doesn't mention infoboxes." I considered this an intellectually dishonest move because her first comment there suggested that the presence of "Mammoths" at Amherst College would justify a C2D speedy move, but when I showed her that "Mammoths" did indeed appear there, she made a non-sequitur about "infoboxes" not being mentioned. In fact, C2D makes no reference whatsoever to any parts of articles other than their title."

She claimed that the Amherst College article didn't mention "Mammoths", implying that if it did, that would satisfy a speedy move. When I pointed out that the article did in fact mention "Mammoths" in two places, she then made a non-sequitur about WP:C2D not mentioning infoboxes. WP:C2D doesn't mention any specific part of articles other than the title.

Do you have anything to say about her false accusations of meatpuppetry and forum shopping against me? Jweiss11 (talk) 23:01, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Do you or do you not understand the concept of "digging yourself into a hole"? How many people need to tell you that you are wrong before you will accept it? --Tarage (talk) 23:42, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
 * It's not the number of people that should convince someone of something. It's the quality of the arguments. I'm having a discussion here with Sarek. If the mere continuance of this discussion bothers you, you can simply ignore it. Jweiss11 (talk) 00:05, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
 * You're going to end up blocked. I highly suggest that you listen to what Sarek is telling you. You can parrot on all day about 'quality of arguments' but when so many people are telling you to stop and you don't, don't be surprised if you lose the ability to continue. I won't say any more. --Tarage (talk) 00:15, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Who's parroting? Yes, I would appreciate if wouldn't say any more here, particularly if it's going to involve undue pejoratives like "parrot".  Jweiss11 (talk) 00:19, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
 * The title "Amherst College", which is all that C2D covers, makes no mention of "Mammoths" or "Lord Jeffs". That's exactly what she told you, twice. This would be a really good time to admit that you might have misunderstood her, and drop the whole thing. -- SarekOfVulcan (talk) 02:53, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Sarek, I'm quite certain she was talking about the content of the article Amherst College, not the phrase "Amherst College". Jweiss11 (talk) 02:55, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
 * You are quite mistaken. I read her post. She quoted the policy. You misunderstood. -- SarekOfVulcan (talk) 03:55, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Amherst College was hyperlinked in her original comment, which suggested to me she was talking about the content of the article, not phrase. If she truly meant the phrase, then I indeed misunderstood, and what she said would not have been intellectually dishonest. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:09, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
 * You could go a long way to fixing the problems between you and BrownHairedGirl by admitting to her that you may have misunderstood and sincerely apologizing for saying she was intellectually dishonest. If you had assumed from the very beginning that she was applying the policy as it is written then this would not have gone as far as it has.  You carry a lot of the blame for how this whole situation has evolved.  ~ GB fan 11:47, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
 * GB fan, thanks for comment. I think the best move for now is a probably a "cool off" period of no interaction between me and her, particularly considering how my last attempt to apologize for something else went over on her talk page.  I do see that I'm not without blame. Jweiss11 (talk) 02:29, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I disagree that the best course of action is to cool off. Since you don't say what your last attempt to apologize was I looked and found the statement about the removal of her comment. It is just like the rest of your comments in this whole affair, it isn't your fault.  You have finally admitted here that you are not without blame but all your statements to her say you are without blame.
 * Why should she accept anything you say when to this point you have never stated anywhere much less directly to her that your accusation of intellectual dishonesty was wrong?
 * You say you wanted to just let things cool off after the initial intellectual dishonesty statement rather than explain why you felt she was intellectually dishonest, you can see now how that worked out. If you had explained then you might have learned then that the way you were seeing it was not what she meant.
 * I will say it one more time to close this out, I believe the best course of action is for you go to her talk page and tell her you were wrong, you carry the blame for the way this whole situation came out and sincerely apologize for your actions and statements.
 * Good luck in whatever you decide. ~ GB fan 11:42, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I disagree with the disagreement. I think keeping well clear of each other is the best move for now. -- SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:05, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

Ampersand
Hi, and good to meet you if I haven't already. Your revert of the 'and' back to the ampersand in the template section head seems to indicate that this is either a question which has been discussed in the past or it should be re-reverted and the ampersand removed. WP:AMP states that WP doesn't use ampersands except "Elsewhere, ampersands may be used with consistency and discretion where space is extremely limited (e.g. tables and infoboxes)". Template space is normally not 'extremely limited' and, per consistency with most templates, the sports templates should, at least I believe, not use ampersands either in section heads or in added text which does not duplicate an exact name which uses ampersands. I'll ping who is an expert on all things WP:Style to see if he has an opinion, or if he thinks this should be discussed in a wider venue. I've changed many template section heads to 'and' from the '&' and they seem to have gone smoothly. Do you personally prefer the ampersand? Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 16:57, 28 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Good to meet you too. I’m not tied to the ampersand in principal, but it is space-saving there. The use of ampersands in navboxes like these seems as justified as in a table or infobox. What I do want to see is consistency across this class of templates.  The content and style of these templates has been much discussed over the last several years at the relevant WikiProjects. Jweiss11 (talk) 17:28, 28 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Randy Kryn, thanks for re-aading those italics. Apologies for the missing that detail in my revert to restore the ampersands. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:25, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
 * You're welcome, a detail easily missed in a multi-edit. I was hoping SMcCandish or others would comment on the ampersand question. You suggest not changing ampersands on sport templates because of past discussions, which makes sense, although a full discussion at one of the major style pages could be had at some point. Site consistency would either say to not use ampersands in template section titles (whose length could be alleviated by a section break) or allow them because the spaces are 'extremely limited' (which I'd say is a descriptor stretch for template section heads of small or moderate length). If the question is left hanging now maybe at some point soon, if nobody has done it, I'll bring it up at a style page and ping you. Thanks again. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:12, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

Color template
Jweiss: for someone who swears by the documentation on templates, I'm surprised to see you are removing "color" from color. Why? I'm requesting you stop, please, as the documentation clearing says it needs to be included. I've stopped with the removal of excess space that you swore needed to be there, so the least you can do is stop messing with the color templates. Corky 06:47, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The principle I swear by is consistency. I've been doing some cleanup of the coach navboxes.  Is it acceptable to use white or black in navboxes like Illinois Fighting Illini football coach navbox? Jweiss11 (talk) 14:58, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Most university templates and their sub navboxes use color. I guess my question is what is wrong with that template? All white or black is doing is saving space, which really is pointless at this point if all of the excess space is being re-added in the parameter. Corky  00:36, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The white and black templates surely make the code simpler. I can't say whether the color template is more common than the white and black templates among color sports navboxes.  Many of them are still using span tags. Jweiss11 (talk) 00:49, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Template:Kent State Golden Flashes football coach navbox has been using white since your cleanup edit in 2015. Jweiss11 (talk) 00:54, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

I have unreviewed a page you curated
Thanks for reviewing 2018 Saint Francis Red Flash football team, Jweiss11.

Unfortunately Onel5969 has just gone over this page again and unreviewed it. Their note is:

"You might wait until consensus is reached..."

To reply, leave a comment on Onel5969's talk page.

 Onel 5969  TT me 01:55, 22 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Not sure what's going on here. Are you quoting someone else? Jweiss11 (talk) 02:00, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

May 23: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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NPR Newsletter No.11 25 May 2018
Hello, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!

ACTRIAL:
 * WP:ACREQ has been implemented. The flow at the feed has dropped back to the levels during the trial. However, the backlog is on the rise again so please consider reviewing a few extra articles each day; a backlog approaching 5,000 is still far too high. An effort is also needed to ensure that older unsuitable older pages at the back of the queue do not get automatically indexed for Google.

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Paid editing - new policy
 * Now that ACTRIAL is ACREQ, please be sure to look for tell-tale signs of undisclosed paid editing. Contact the creator if appropriate, and submit the issue to WP:COIN if necessary. There is a new global WMF policy that requires paid editors to connect to their adverts.

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Orphaned non-free image File:Frederick M. Ellis.gif
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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:28, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Seton Hall Pirates athletic director navbox
Template:Seton Hall Pirates athletic director navbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Corky 16:59, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:South Florida Bulls athletic director navbox
Template:South Florida Bulls athletic director navbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Corky 17:00, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Dartmouth Big Green athletic director navbox
Template:Dartmouth Big Green athletic director navbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Corky 17:05, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Bucknell Bison athletic director navbox
Template:Bucknell Bison athletic director navbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Corky 17:07, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Rollback
Sorry, no idea how that even happened. I don’t remember even visiting that page this evening. Rikster2 (talk) 01:47, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
 * No worries. I guessed it was likely an accident. Jweiss11 (talk) 01:48, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Larry Keating
I started a draft at Draft:Larry Keating (athletic director). feel free to modify it. if he is notable, we should be able to turn it into an article. Frietjes (talk) 16:45, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

== June 20: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC (and Pratt Women Wikipedia Design this Saturday June 16) ==

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NPP Backlog Elimination Drive
Hello, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!

We can see the light at the end of the tunnel: there are currently 2900 unreviewed articles, and 4000 unreviewed redirects.

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 * Please do not be hasty, take your time and fully review each page. It is extremely important that we focus on quality reviewing.

Thursday July 12: Wiki Loves Pride Edit-a-thon @ Jefferson Market Library
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Objection to links to cities and states in lede?
I'm just curious what your objection is to having links to the city and state in the lede of an article. ElKevbo (talk) 20:10, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
 * It's simple overlinking per Manual of Style/Linking. The city is most relevant when mentioned like this.  And this doesn't just apply to the leads of articles.  It applies anywhere: body, infoboxes, tables as well. Jweiss11 (talk) 20:12, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Can you point to something more specific? The section on overlinking has some examples that seem relevant and they don't indicate that states are familiar enough to readers that they shouldn't be linked. ElKevbo (talk) 20:17, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
 * This passage would apply specifically: "When possible, avoid placing links next to each other so that they look like a single link, as in Irish Chess Championship (Irish Chess Championship). Consider rephrasing the sentence, omitting one of the links, or using a more specific single link (e.g. to Irish Chess Championship using Irish Chess Championship) instead." When state is mentioned alone, I have no objection to wikilinking it. Jweiss11 (talk) 20:21, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not convinced that applies when we're talking about (a) words separated by a comma and (b) words that are frequently placed next one another but always understood to refer to separate (but related) things.
 * Do you mind if I kick this question over to WT:MOS or somewhere similar? I don't see any reason for U.S. colleges and university articles to not be uniform on this particular issue but right now they're not uniform and we're in disagreement about this issue.  Although I don't feel very strongly about linking the state I do prefer that especially for public institutions since the state is very relevant for the subject.  In any case, I'd rather us collectively come to a consensus and uniformly apply it even if that consensus is not the one I prefer. ElKevbo (talk) 20:39, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Sure, we can discuss this at WT:MOS. In the case of state schools, there's probably a better way to work in a link to the state somewhere in the lead, if needed. Jweiss11 (talk) 20:54, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Discussion opened.
 * I concede that there may be a way to link to the state elsewhere in the lead for many articles; this would be particularly easy for institutions that belong to a system that has its own article (I haven't looked but I think that the majority of state systems for four-year institutions already have an article; I don't think that's the case for all of the community college systems). ElKevbo (talk) 14:09, 20 July 2018 (UTC)


 * I'm struggling to see the utility of state, when city (if not well-known) might already be linked. It's a lot of blue splotching in one place. Please remember that hardly any readers follow our internal links, anyway—especially if they're non-technical. Tony (talk)  14:20, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

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Sunday July 29: Annual Wiki-Picnic @ Prospect Park
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NPR Newsletter No.12 30 July 2018
Hello, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!

Overall the June backlog drive was a success, reducing the last 3,000 or so to below 500. However, as expected, 90% of the patrolling was done by less than 10% of reviewers. Since the drive closed, the backlog has begun to rise sharply again and is back up to nearly 1,400 already. Please help reduce this total and keep it from raising further by reviewing some articles each day.
 * June backlog drive


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August 29: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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Sources needed for Days of the Year pages
You're probably not aware but Days of the Year pages are no longer exempt from WP:V and direct sources are required for additions. For details see the WikiProject Days of the Year style guide. If you restore it, please provide a direct reliable source. Thanks. Toddst1 (talk) 18:23, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
 * No, I was not aware. I don't edit day of year pages often and assumed the prevailing style of no references was the standard.  So, old entries with direct sources are grandfathered in? Jweiss11 (talk) 18:48, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The idea is they'll be sourced or removed over time. There are tons of incorrect and unverifiable entries in those articles, especially around entertainers and business people.    has been at the vanguard of cleaning them up and there are several others of us working on it as well.  There are also a few creative ideas like this being kicked around. Toddst1 (talk) 19:06, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for filling in the details. At User talk:UCO2009bluejay, I also just suggested some sort of template to be added these pages until a critical mass of sources can be added. Jweiss11 (talk) 19:13, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

I had to look up "grandfather" as a verb - I guess that's a North American term, and rather a sexist one if you don't mind me saying so. I can see that, if you didn't look at UCO2009bluejay's page before replacing his edit, obviously you wouldn't have understood the reasons for it or known that he'd been warned - but it's wise to find out exactly what the background is before you get involved in an edit war. As an admin, I may not agree with certain of our policies and guidelines, but I see it as my duty to help enforce them. I agree that the guideline should apply equally to all entries, but that would mean wiping the date articles clear because the entries that were created before it was introduced 100% don't comply with it. Likewise, there are many articles that were created without references before the requirement for references was introduced but we don't delete them wholesale. Faced with a choice between spending my time undoing unreferenced entries for obscure US sportsmen and saving articles on figures that may be of historical interest, I try and do as much of both as I can, but undoing takes less time. Yes, I admit it would be different if UCO2009bluejay had, for example, created an entry for someone of international renown who had previously been omitted. It would also have been different if he had listened to Toddst1 first time round - and God knows I argued long and hard with Todd on this topic but I had to accept the community decision in the end. Deb (talk) 08:43, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Deb, yes, I suppose "grandfather" is a North American idiom. And no, it's not sexist.  That's a nonsense opinion. The use of this term does not discriminate again women or anyone, particularly in this context when it's being applied to management of data points.  What is clear here, though, is your anti-American bias and ignorance about the relevant subject.  Chuck Fairbanks is not some obscure American sportsman. He's far more well-known than plenty of the people listed (without reference) at June 10.  Instead of offering empty admonishments to others, you should be focused on how you abused your administrative privileges with an unwarranted protection of the article, deleted good and consistent content, and made pejorative comments that implied an assumption of bad faith when you first addressed me. Jweiss11 (talk) 03:23, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
 * See grandfather clause. The origin of the term is more racist than sexist, but sure, why grandfather and not grandmother? Still, Jweiss did not invent the term, and it's not currently considered sexist. It was used in this August 2018 New York Times article.—Bagumba (talk) 04:43, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
 * It's American slang, presumably referring to "grandfather" because of his perceived authoritative status. I'm not a grandmother yet, but I'll take it, despite the inaccuracy. Deb (talk) 08:31, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

(Jweiss: Hope you dont mind me hosting my comments on your page) I caught this talk page on my watchlist. From what I can see, this unnecessarily escalated once the birthdate was verifiable, even if it was not cited on the actual date page. It would have been preferable to have seen WP:PRESERVE exercised, instead of edit warring on a citation. From WP:DOYSTYLE, it seems that any person with an article can be listed at a date article: All events, births, deaths, and holidays should be linked to existing Wikipedia articles and those articles should mention the specific events. It doesn't mention any editorial oversight for "obscure US sportsmen", which seems instead like a personal preference. The full protection seems undue, but is expiring soon. If the project really is vigilant about enforcing its essay regarding citing new entries inline, may I recommend updating the WP:EDITNOTICE at DOY page notice accordingly? Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 05:21, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I do believe that you're making the mistake of thinking that User:Toddst1 and I are the only people carrying out such fixes. In reality, there are numerous people watching numerous date pages and doing the same; I only watch a small number. Unfortunately, many contributors believe that anyone they are interested in is of worldwide significance and introduce them into the relevant Date article without concerning themselves with recentism, globalization, or the already unwieldy size of these articles. Generally, they do not even think to put them into the Year in Topic article instead. This is an ongoing problem that I've been unable to resolve, even though discussions on the problem suggest that most contributors agree with me. So I concentrate on stopping the continuing flow of "celebrities". Deb (talk) 08:31, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
 * PS., If you really do want to weigh in, I would suggest you re-start the discussion that went on here under "Referencing every single line in DOY is a ... bad idea?" Deb (talk) 08:37, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but I'll limit my involvement to this dispute. It seems as if the non-project members here were bitten for project rules that do not seem to be either clearly defined or explained. Is there a reference about the restriction to subjects of "worldwide significance"? If there is, I would also suggest that it be added to the project's edit notice. Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 09:27, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
 * There is for events, but not for people, and it's already in the guidelines. That's not relevant here anyway - I'm only telling you how I feel about it. Deb (talk) 11:03, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

We need to de-escalate this. My comment above that started this thread was made in the context that Jweiss11 was probably unaware of the changes to DOY and with the best of intentions, He restored the content. Jweiss11 is now (unfortunately, painfully) aware of the changes and it's probably time to close this discussion. Toddst1 (talk) 14:02, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Use of NAIA brand guidelines - State Abbreviations
In the past, I have favored use of the 2-letter postal abbreviations as the way to identify the state locations of various NAIA sports programs. That seemed reasonable to me, and I was not aware of any competing NAIA guidance on the subject. Recently, however, I have come to learn that the NAIA does in fact have published style, brand guidelines to dictate how reference is made to NAIA teams. Their guidance states that the postal abbreviation should only be used in cases of citing full addresses that include city-state-zip. All other references are to follow the AP stylebook for abbreviations. See page 62 at http://www.naia.org/fls/27900/1NAIA/marketing/docs/NAIA_BrandGuidelines_2018_web.pdf?SPSID=1086810&SPID=173008&DB_OEM_ID=27900

Having learned this news, I have now reversed that prior personal belief that the 2-letter postal code is appropriate. Take a look at any press release issued by the NAIA. The AP style is always used. So, to be in harmony with their own preferred use, it seems appropriate to me to use the AP style.

This topic may have been discussed before, but i am not aware of where to find it. Can you please steer me to any previous discussions that have been held on this matter? If the 2-letter postal code is a preference on Wiki or in the NAIA athletic articles, can you cite when and where this determination was made? Thank you. Jlhcpa (talk) 19:37, 11 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Jlhcpa, thanks for the message. I was planning to contact you about this.  Using two-letter state codes to disambiguate college sports teams with otherwise ambiguous shortnames (e.g. "Miami (FL)" for the Miami Hurricanes vs. "Miami (OH)" for the Miami RedHawks) has long been a standard practice on Wikipedia.  I'm not sure I can identify specific discussions to this effect, but I believe the topic has been broached somewhere in the archives of Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football.  This standard practice is also reflected at WikiProject College football/Master team table.  I was not aware of the NAIA brand guidelines, and I don't believe there ever been a discussion on Wikipedia about them.  But I don't think we are under any obligation to follow them, and I don't see how they can be implemented in a way that would produce consistency here on Wikipedia.  There are many teams that were at one point NAIA and are now NCAA.  It would be silly to change the formatting of a parenthetical state disambiguator with such a move between associations. Or consider a coach work who worked for an NCAA program and an NAIA that each require a parenthetical state disambiguate where their shortname is displayed in the infobox, e.g. Kevin Donley.  Should the NCAA team have the two-letter code while the NAIA team has the NAIA-style abbreviation?  Doesn't make for a consistent look. Jweiss11 (talk) 03:10, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
 * It has been discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football/Archive 8, while it doesn't specifically state that using (FL) (OH) is mandatory in all incidences such as prose, it does allude to some sort of establish precedent on the matter.--UCO2009bluejay (talk) 13:53, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Noted and read. Thanks.  Jlhcpa (talk) 16:24, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

1963 Michigan Wolverines football team
You recently converted the schedule template for 1963 Michigan Wolverines football team to named parameters. In the course of doing so, it appears that you inadvertently removed four citations to sources for game results. Please restore that content and take care not to eliminate similar content in the future. Best, Cbl62 (talk) 01:02, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
 * It wasn't inadvertent. I didn't do want to spend time restoring the citations, which are superfluous as the article now stands, because there is a ton of other cleanup needed on these tables on other articles. Please make sure you never, ever replace named parameters with unnamed parameters. Jweiss11 (talk) 01:21, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I will happily abide by your suggestion on conversions, which I believe you are offering in complete good faith. However, the issue at hand remains your removal yesterday of citations from the 1963 Michigan team article. I was surprised to read that the removal was intentional. That strikes me as out of character since your edits are typically constructive. In this case, however, your proffered justification for removing the citations does not hold up to scrutiny. Citations to game summaries, published in reliable sources, are actually the antithesis of "superfluous". To the contrary, such citations further the policy of verifiability and, perhaps more importantly, provide an invaluable resource for further improvement of the article. Accordingly, please restore the substantive content that you admit to having removed intentionally. For your convenience, the four sources at issue are set forth here:




 * Thank you in advance for your anticipated good faith cooperation in restoring the deleted material. Best, Cbl62 (talk) 03:45, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

NPR Newsletter No.13 18 September 2018
Hello, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!

The New Page Feed currently has 2700 unreviewed articles, up from just 500 at the start of July. For a while we were falling behind by an average of about 40 articles per day, but we have stabilised more recently. Please review some articles from the back of the queue if you can (Sort by: 'Oldest' at Special:NewPagesFeed), as we are very close to having articles older than one month.


 * Project news
 * The New Page Feed now has a new "Articles for Creation" option which will show drafts instead of articles in the feed, this shouldn't impact NPP activities and is part of the WMF's AfC Improvement Project.
 * As part of this project, the feed will have some larger updates to functionality next month. Specifically, ORES predictions will be built in, which will automatically flag articles for potential issues such as vandalism or spam. Copyright violation detection will also be added to the new page feed. See the projects's talk page for more info.


 * There are a number of coordination tasks for New Page Patrol that could use some help from experienced reviewers. See New pages patrol/Coordination for more info to see if you can help out.


 * Other
 * A new summary page of reliable sources has been created; Identifying reliable sources/Perennial sources, which summarizes existing RfCs or RSN discussions about regularly used sources.


 * Moving to Draft and Page Mover
 * Some unsuitable new articles can be best reviewed by moving them to the draft space, but reviewers need to do this carefully and sparingly. It is most useful for topics that look like they might have promise, but where the article as written would be unlikely to survive AfD. If the article can be easily fixed, or if the only issue is a lack of sourcing that is easily accessible, tagging or adding sources yourself is preferable. If sources do not appear to be available and the topic does not appear to be notable, tagging for deletion is preferable (PROD/AfD/CSD as appropriate). See additional guidance at WP:DRAFTIFY.
 * If the user moves the draft back to mainspace, or recreates it in mainspace, please do not re-draftify the article (although swapping it to maintain the page history may be advisable in the case of copy-paste moves). AfC is optional except for editors with a clear conflict of interest.
 * Articles that have been created in contravention of our paid-editing-requirements or written from a blatant NPOV perspective, or by authors with a clear COI might also be draftified at discretion.
 * The best tool for draftification is User:Evad37/MoveToDraft.js(info). Kindly adapt the text in the dialogue-pop-up as necessary (the default can also be changed like this). Note that if you do not have the Page Mover userright, the redirect from main will be automatically tagged as CSD R2, but in some cases it might be better to make this a redirect to a different page instead.
 * The Page Mover userright can be useful for New Page Reviewers; occasionally page swapping is needed during NPR activities, and it helps avoid excessive R2 nominations which must be processed by admins. Note that the Page Mover userright has higher requirements than the NPR userright, and is generally given to users active at Requested Moves. Only reviewers who are very experienced and are also very active reviewers are likely to be granted it solely for NPP activities.

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September 26: WikiWednesday Salon / Wikimedia NYC Annual Meeting
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Sonny Dykes
You are nuts. I’m leaving the article but this is ridiculously stupid. The infobox is “college coach.” The sports at the top refer to coaching. If the coach PLAYED baseball, that gets noted in the player year section, not the top. But for a 20+ year football coach who was an assistant one season for a high school to list both - to the point where you have to put “football” after his current title? That is just plumb dumb. Rikster2 (talk) 01:51, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Rikster2, this is the prevailing standard for Template:Infobox college coach. I agree that the parenthetical "football" is awkward, but the sport field is used to list every relevant sport, all those played at college or higher and all those coached at any level.  If you want to change this, we need have a discussion and consider modifying the template to deal with these cases better. Jweiss11 (talk)
 * Show me the consensus discussion. This defies common sense in this case. It’s a different case when you have old timers with long careers in 2-3 sports. Almost certainly Dykes held multiple assistant jobs, and probably taught classes to, in high school. That’s not indicative of his career at all. And, no, the college coach infobox is not meant to show multiple sport PLAYED at the top. That’s to tell the reader what sports they COACHED and there are numerous cases where additional lines are used in the playing years section to describe this. Rikster2 (talk) 02:00, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, clearly the implied intent of sport field is to enumerate all sports played and coached, as detailed lower in the infobox. That's how it is used prevailingly. Can you point me to some of those "numerous cases"? Jweiss11 (talk) 02:08, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
 * No, the template documentation clearly says “sports coached” not “sports coached or played.” It is confusing to the reader to try to use it for two purposes. Rikster2 (talk) 02:11, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The template documentation should be changed because it doesn't reflect prevailing use. Can you point me to some of those "numerous cases"? Jweiss11 (talk) 02:12, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
 * No, it shouldn’t be changed. That is the clear way to get this info across. If someone’s notability comes mainly from coaching (like the vast majority - though not all - of college coaches does) then make the infobox function for their coach career first and foremost. The template documentation reflects logical practice. Rikster2 (talk) 02:17, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Also, I am having a hard time understanding why you are going hard line on this example, where a strict interpretation of practice creates a silly scenario when you still won’t apply the nesting of coach tenure navboxes and the formatting of high school in your hundreds of edits, even though these were decided via consensus. Seems very selective to me. You must not care that much about consistency - just the consistency that you agree with. Rikster2 (talk) 02:23, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I've decided not to spend time nesting those navboxes in lieu or focusing on others things, but have not removed them or obstructed anyone else from nesting them. I've also made efforts (which you weren't very fond of) to help you and other editors make sure you are nesting and organizing these infoboxes in a consistent fashion.  I'm not sure which consensus I'm not aligning with regarded "the formatting of high school".  Are you referring to the use of parenthetical state codes in the coaching fields of Template:Infobox college coach? Jweiss11 (talk) 02:29, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
 * That’s a complete cop-out. You go into hundreds of college coach articles and you make 15 little changes for “consistency” but you always avoid that one and you and I both know why - it’s a consensus change that you didn’t agree with. I don’t care if you try to ensure consistency after that (though you’ve asked me the same question twice about nesting current conference coach templates twice and I have pointed you to the same consensus discussion each time). As for the HS field, I was actually talking about the new format for the pro infoboxes, but now that I think about it I may be wrong that you are a person who is resisting that one - it’s not worth checking, I will just assume I got you mixed up with someone else and apologize. Rikster2 (talk) 02:48, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
 * You're right, I'm not really fond of nesting those navboxes, so I just don't deal with it for the most part. I have cleaned up some instances where you (in some of your earlier edits after the new consensus) or others nested the navboxes in two buckets (coaching tenures, and award/honors/championships)—which wasn't the consensus of the relevant discussion.  Generally, I spend time cleaning up and improving the infoboxes, record tables, and body content of these coaching bio articles.  I'm aware there's been a recent change in formatting of the high school field of Template:Infobox NFL biography, but I wasn't very involved in that discussion and I am not the editor you were thinking of who is resisting this change. Jweiss11 (talk) 02:57, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
 * per your edit on Bill Zwaan, Template:Pennsylvania State Athletic Conference football coach navbox is supposed to be place outside of the nesting, correct? Jweiss11 (talk) 16:55, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes. And when you see these sorts of oversights, feel free to fix them as you would in any other case. Rikster2 (talk) 17:18, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

thanks for fixing that. You've mentioned Gene Keady somewhere these discussions. The infobox for that article as it stands now doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It wikilinks to Kansas State Wildcats men's basketball from the playing career section, even though Keady never played basketball for Kansas State. He did letter in three other sports there. Jweiss11 (talk) 23:36, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
 * You are welcome to make changes to the page, as always. Rikster2 (talk) 00:16, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

Removing Coaching record links at sports-reference.com
There is no consensus that these are not to be used on articles and linking these in the EL section is useful to the reader. Please stop removing these without consensus that they should not be included here. If you would like to install some sort of consensus “banning” these, then take the initiative to start such a conversation. I will be happy to take part. Rikster2 (talk) 08:43, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

== Sun October 14: Open House New York Weekend Upload Party @ NYU ITP and Indigenous People's Justice Edit-a-thon @ Interference Archive ==

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NPR Newsletter No.14 21 October 2018
Hello, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!

, there are 3650 unreviewed articles and the backlog now stretches back 51 days.
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October 2018
Hello, I'm Zackmann08. Thank you for your recent contributions to 2008 Illinois Fighting Illini football team. When you were adding content to the page, you added duplicate arguments to a template which can cause issues with how the template is rendered. In the future, please use the preview button before you save your edit; this helps you find these errors as they will display in red at the top of the page. Thanks!  Zack mann  (Talk to me/What I been doing) 23:47, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

October 24: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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Sunday Oct 28: Wikidata Birthday Party
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Nomination for deletion of Template:Milton Wildcats football coach navbox
Template:Milton Wildcats football coach navbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. cymru.lass (talk • contribs) 18:07, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Here are some sources that could be used to start an article on longtime Milton coach George Crandall:, , , . Cbl62 (talk) 17:07, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

2018 Nebraska Cornhuskers football team
Why are the box scores "inappropriate" for the schedule section of the 2018 Nebraska football team? But now there is a separate column with a "reference" holder for a link to the same box score? Makes no sense. What was wrong with how it was?Wscsuperfan (talk) 19:04, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Wscsuperfan, external links are generally not supposed to appear in the body of an article. This is a basic point of Wikipedia style, per External links.  There's no prohibition on using incline citations, although they are better placed in prose, rather than in tables. I'm not a fan of that source column, for what that's worth.  As such, I have moved all those references further down in the 2018 Nebraska Cornhuskers football team article, to the game summaries section. Jweiss11 (talk) 19:27, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

Wally Snell
First thing

His SABR biography, which is considered a WP:RS, makes no mention of his being a Milton Wildcats coach.

Second

A Brown University alumni category does belong on his page. He attended Brown in addition to being an athletic director, football coach, and baseball coach there. Note that none of those other Brown categories is a subcategory of Brown alumni. As they shouldn't. Being one of those people doesn't make them an alumni.

Back to Milton. We need a reliable source for Snell being the coach at Milton before adding it....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 14:44, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

Please also note that this biographyof Snell makes no mention of Milton either.[[User:WilliamJE|...William], is the complaint department really on the roof? 15:24, 30 October 2018 (UTC)


 * I'm aware that being a coach or an AD at a school does not make one an alumnus. I removed the alumni category because Snell had played baseball there.  What I missed is that Category:Brown Bears baseball players had not been added to the article. I've fixed this my most recent edit to the article.  As for Milton, we have reliable sources indicating that Snell moved to Wisconsin in 1916 to study at Madison, just 40 miles away from Milton College.  Seems to me that based on that info alone it's overwhelming probable that this is the Wally/Walter Snell who coached at Milton in 1916.  I will search for sources that make this connection more explicit.   can you help with that research?  Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 16:48, 30 October 2018 (UTC)


 * WP:SYNTH aka Snell is a football coach plus he was living in Wisconsin at the time equals he being the Milton coach  would cover the conclusion that this is the same Snell. We can't draw that conclusion. You need something that says this is the same Snell and at the moment we have two reliable sources that make no mention of him and Milton....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 17:17, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

Userification
Just noting that I've userfied Template:Lea College football coach navbox to User:Jweiss11/Lea College football coach navbox. Galobtter (pingó mió) 06:59, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

TfD
I noticed this was something you worked on: Templates_for_discussion/Log/2018_November_10. Cbl62 (talk) 13:32, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Advice on Splitting a Page
Hello, I saw that you edited the John Peterman page a while back. I have suggested the page be split to separate the J. Peterman Company information from the biographical information for John Peterman. I believe there is enough information in the J. Peterman Company section to be its own page. Can you give me feedback and if splitting the page is beneficial? Thanks, Kelsey246! (talk) 18:22, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

Texas State M&M
You keep changing all my links for Texas School of Mines to "Texas State M&M". Please stop, as your changes are completely wrong. We are supposed to be using common names (see WP:COMMONNAME), and I find ZERO hits during the period from 1920-1939 for something called "Texas State M&M". The most common names for the school appears to have been "Texas Mines" (12,493 hits), "Texas College of Mines" (4,343 hits), and "Texas School of Mines" (3,872). Cbl62 (talk) 04:45, 13 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Okay, I have no issue if "Texas Mines" is indeed the common name. I was following the scheme at Template:UTEP Miners football navbox.  That should be fixed. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:46, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Also, the team parameter of the cfb link templates should align with title parameter in those schedule tables. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:49, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
 * The historic names used in templates are totally screwed up for many, many programs. When I take on a program, I also fix the templates. But just because the templates are wrong does not mean we should be replicating and propagating the same errors elsewhere. Cbl62 (talk) 04:52, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
 * If I knew the template was wrong, I wouldn't be replace replicating its errors. So, let's fix the templates! Jweiss11 (talk) 04:55, 13 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Agreed, but there's only so much time in a day. The Texas Mines situation is complicated by the fact that it's not clear whether it should be "Texas Mines", "Texas School of Mines", or "Texas College of Mines". (There may also be variations at different points in time that should be run to the ground before the template is fixed.) The only thing I'm really sure of at this point is that"Texas State M&M" is wrong.  Cbl62 (talk) 05:03, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Note you own edits at articles like 1921 Arizona Wildcats football team—these will need to be fixed as well. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:57, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
 * My edits there were before I figured out that the UTEP template (like soooo may others) was screwed up. Cbl62 (talk) 05:03, 13 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Using the New Mexico articles of the 1920s as a case study, the following opponent templates/program articles are totally screwed up: UTEP (Texas Mines, etc.), New Mexico Highlands Cowboys and Cowgirls (known by another name, apparently "New Mexico Normal", in the 1920s), Northern Arizona Lumberjacks (known by other names in the 1920s/1930s), Western New Mexico Mustangs (known by another name) . . . and on and on with other programs across the country. Cleaning up the template mess is a MAJOR undertaking. If you want to tackle it, I'd be happy to provide support. Cbl62 (talk) 05:15, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm happy to update the templates if you want to do the research to establish the common names. I'd say the UTEP navbox is highest priority since they are FBS.  Should UTEP be called "Texas Mines" from 1914 through 1948? Jweiss11 (talk) 05:18, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
 * No clear answers, as the three variations all get significant usage:
 * 1914-1919: "texas school of mines" football (283), "texas Mines" football (36), "texas college of mines" football (6)
 * 1920-24: "texas school of mines" football (421), "texas Mines" football (161), "texas college of mines" football (121)
 * 1925-29: "texas mines" football (792), "texas school of mines" football (431), "texas college of mines" football (384)
 * 1930-34: "texas mines" football (2,316), "texas school of mines" football (630), "texas college of mines" football (869)
 * 1935-39: "texas mines" football (8,167), "texas school of mines" football (1,643), "texas college of mines" football (1,831)
 * 1940-44: "texas mines" football (11,283), "texas college of mines" football (1,629), "texas school of mines" football (465)
 * Cbl62 (talk) 05:37, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I think we can use "Texas Mines" for all those years. That goes with the general convention of dropping "School"/"College"/"University" from the name is most circumstances. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:40, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
 * No objection. Cbl62 (talk) 05:43, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

NPR Newsletter No.15 16 November 2018
Hello ,
 * Community Wishlist Survey – NPP needs you – Vote NOW
 * Community Wishlist Voting takes place 16 to 30 November for the Page Curation and New Pages Feed improvements, and other software requests. The NPP community is hoping for a good turnout in support of the requests to Santa for the tools we need. This is very important as we have been asking the Foundation for these upgrades for 4 years.


 * If this proposal does not make it into the top ten, it is likely that the tools will be given no support at all for the foreseeable future. So please put in a vote today.


 * We are counting on significant support not only from our own ranks, but from everyone who is concerned with maintaining a Wikipedia that is free of vandalism, promotion, flagrant financial exploitation and other pollution.


 * With all 650 reviewers voting for these urgently needed improvements, our requests would be unlikely to fail. See also The Signpost Special report: 'NPP: This could be heaven or this could be hell for new users – and for the reviewers', and if you are not sure what the wish list is all about, take a sneak peek at an article in this month's upcoming issue of The Signpost which unfortunately due to staff holidays and an impending US holiday will probably not be published until after voting has closed.

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Freshmen football and Championship navbox question
Hello, Jweiss11 -- Quick question regarding freshmen football teams. If someone is a member of the freshmen football squad during a season in which the varsity squad wins a national championship, would it be appropriate to put that person in that team's National Championship navbox?

As an example, several notable coaches (Fred Luehring, Harold Iddings, etc.) were members of the 1905 Chicago Maroons football team freshmen squad.

My reason for asking is that, in modern football, non-eligible redshirt players are still counted on their team's respective navboxes. (Scott Frost gets credit for Nebraska's 1995 title team. Cam Newton gets listed in 2008 Florida's navbox.)

Appreciate your input. Thanks,Bigredlance (talk) 05:08, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I lean toward no, but I would pose this question at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football to get input from others. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:18, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:2011 Big Ten Football Championship Game logo.png
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What do you think of this map
on the NCAA Division II Football Championship page. It seems way too bulky if you ask me, and disrupts a few headings.UCO2009bluejay (talk) 18:51, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

1908 Utah Agricultural
I have partially reverted your change to 1908 Utah Agricultural Aggies football team. . . in particular, your changing of Fred M. Walker to Mysterious Walker. Walker did not acquire the "Mysterious" nickname until well after his tenure at Utah Agricultural. A good analogy is referring to Caitlyn Jenner as Bruce Jenner in the article on the 1976 Summer Olympics. In each of these cases, the proper protocol is to refer to the person by the name by which they were was known at the time. Accordingly, Caitlyn Jenner is properly referred to as Bruce in an article on the 1976 Olympics, and Mysterious Walker is properly referred to as Fred M. Walker in an article about the 1908 Utah Agricultural football team. Cbl62 (talk) 04:35, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay, makes sense. I guess 1904 Chicago Maroons football team, 1905 Chicago Maroons football team, 1906 Chicago Maroons football team, and Template:1905 Chicago Maroons football navbox should also be changed? Jweiss11 (talk) 04:43, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, those should be changed as well. Would be best to check contemporary sources to see how he was referenced while at U. Chicago. Cbl62 (talk) 04:45, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

December 19: WikiWednesday Salon and Skill-Share NYC
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NPR Newsletter No.16 15 December 2018
Hello ,

This year's award for the Reviewer of the Year goes to. Around on Wikipedia since 2011, their staggering number of 26,554reviews over the past twelve months makes them, together with an additional total of 275,285edits, one of Wikipedia's most prolific users.
 * Reviewer of the Year
 * Thanks are also extended for their work to (15,059 reviews),  (12,760reviews),  (9,001reviews),  (8,440reviews),  (8,092reviews),   (5,306reviews),  (4,153 reviews),  (4,016reviews),  and  (3,615reviews)., , , and  have been New Page Reviewers for less than a year — Barkeep49 for only sevenmonths, while , with an edit count of 250,000 since she joined Wikipedia in 2008, has been a bastion of New Page Patrol for many years.

See also the list of top100 reviewers.

The backlog is now approaching 5,000, and still rising. There are around 640holders of the NPR flag, most of whom appear to be inactive. The 10% of the reviewers who do 90% of the work could do with some support especially as some of them are now taking a well deserved break.
 * Less good news, and an appeal for some help

At #1 position, the Community Wishlist poll closed on 3December with a resounding success for NPP, reminding the WMF and the volunteer communities just how critical NPP is to maintaining a clean encyclopedia and the need for improved tools to do it. A big 'thank you' to everyone who supported the NPP proposals. See the results.
 * Really good news - NPR wins the Community Wishlist Survey 2019

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2018 Division I FBS independents football records listed at Redirects for discussion
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Saint Joseph's Pumas football coach navbox listed at Redirects for discussion
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