User talk:Jweiss11/Archives/2020

Your question on my page
My reason for considering lifting your T-ban for Andy Ngo was, and remains, that I don't want any editor to have to constantly worry whether they're violating a T-ban or not. Therefore, I'm willing to replace your topic ban with an article ban from Andy Ngo and Talk:Andy Ngo. No gray areas there. Please note that an article ban would apply to any and all editing of the pages in question: don't correct a typo or change punctuation, don't revert vandalism. Nothing. You may discuss Ngo anywhere else on Wikipedia, with the caveat that if you discuss him a lot on other pages, or (I don't mean to ABF, but) appear to be skirting the article ban in some way, I may restore the full topic ban. Though not without a warning first. Would that suit? Feel free to instead appeal at AE or AN for an unconditional lifting of the T-ban, if you prefer. Bishonen &#124; talk 16:11, 7 January 2020 (UTC).

Do you accept this proposal? I forgot to say that I don't think an article ban would need to be indefinite. A year would work for me. Bishonen &#124; talk 12:47, 9 January 2020 (UTC).
 * Bishonen, thanks for getting back to me. I'd really like to clean to slate and have the sanction removed entirely at some point. Are you proposing that you commute the topic ban to an article ban now and then lift the sanction entirely a year from now? Jweiss11 (talk) 01:19, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes. Bishonen &#124; talk 12:04, 10 January 2020 (UTC).
 * How about we change to article ban now and lift the entire sanction one year from its start, September 11, 2020? Jweiss11 (talk) 22:10, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I've taken a good look at your previous edits to Andy Ngo and its talkpage, and I'm OK with that suggestion. Your topic ban from Andy Ngo has been commuted to an article ban per my specifics above, to run from now to September 11, 2020. Bishonen &#124; talk 12:15, 11 January 2020 (UTC).
 * Excellent. Thanks. Jweiss11 (talk) 18:16, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. Logged here, in case anybody asks. Bishonen &#124; talk 19:42, 11 January 2020 (UTC).

Harvard Crimson football 1901
Parke Davis' selection for 1901, as published in the 1935 Spalding's Foot Ball Guide (which he himself edited until his death), was Harvard. (Reference: ) I own a copy of the 1935 Guide. Thus, Billingsley and Davis, the other two retrospective selectors, both chose Harvard. Jeff in CA (talk) 00:44, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Jeff, thanks for dropping a line. Seems there may some confusion about the Parke Davis champ for 1901. See 1901 Yale Bulldogs football team and College football national championships in NCAA Division I FBS.  thoughts here? Jweiss11 (talk) 00:49, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * If any team can lay claim to a 1901 national championship, it's the 1901 Michigan Wolverines football team, of course. That said, the official 2019 NCAA Record Book says that Parke Davis declared Yale, not Harvard, as his 1901 national champion.  See here at p 113. Cbl62 (talk) 03:28, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I wonder if the NCAA just made a typo, as 1901 Harvard Crimson football team went 12–0 and beat 1901 Yale Bulldogs football team, who finished 11–1–1. Jweiss11 (talk) 06:11, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I picked up a copy of the 1935 Spalding's Foot Ball Guide and can confirm that Jeff is correct. Page 233 only makes mention of Harvard being Davis's national champ for 1901. I suspect the Yale thing is just an error in the NCAA records. Should we edit Parke H. Davis, 1901 Yale Bulldogs football team, George S. Stillman, Yale Bulldogs football, College football national championships in NCAA Division I FBS to reflect this? Jweiss11 (talk) 18:58, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
 * My desire, for the sake of accuracy, is to edit those articles to reflect this. I picked up copies of the 1939 and 1941 Football Guides and the 1989 and 1992 NCAA Football records books. I also searched the 1995 Official Records Book at Google Books. 1941 was the first year that the guide was not published by Spalding, although it was still edited by Walter Okeson. The format was changed, and it no longer included Parke Davis' selections of "Outstanding Nationwide and Sectional Teams." The 1939 Guide also did not include Davis' list. In both the 1989 and 1992 records books only a few major selectors are listed (Dickinson, Dunkel, Williamson, Litkenhous and Helms). In the 1995 records book, Davis' selections appear (with the 1901 error) in the format in which they are listed in the recent books. I strongly suspect that this error dates to the first appearance of Davis' selections in the annual records book. Note that Davis' picks in 1900 and 1902 did include Yale. Jeff in CA (talk) 23:11, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I also purchased and checked the 1934 Spalding Guide, and for 1901, Parke Davis' list states, "Harvard." Jeff in CA (talk) 01:35, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
 * If both of you are unequivocally convinced of this error, I have no objection to editing the impacted pages. However, there should be some explanatory footnote on both the Yale and Harvard pages making note of the discrepancy in NCAA records. Cbl62 (talk) 21:05, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

–present formatting
"–present" is supposed to be included; see any article on politicians and other people with terms for this. The lack of them in coaching navboxes was some archaic style that somehow was kept alive over the years. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 03:40, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't know that's it's "archaic". I know "present" was intentionally omitted from college sports tenure navboxes, where the current formatting for all these sports navboxes was first developed, circa 2010.  There are well over 1,000 such navboxes using that format across college and pro sports. Can you show me an example of a politician or other occupational tenure navbox with parenthetical years that uses "present"? Jweiss11 (talk) 03:45, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, do you remember why they were omitted? Also, just check any current-tenured leader's (president/prime minister/CEO, etc) article and you should see it. (some quick examples include Donald Trump, Boris Johnson, and Jeff Bezos) Any ongoing event, like wars and conflicts, also use this formatting, such as the Iraqi conflict (2003–present) and the War in Darfur. Do you know of any non-sports examples that do the same? Because otherwise I just see this as somebody's old personal preference that became a sport-related standard in an era when we had less guidelines and policies. And how come we only omit this in navboxes and not the actual articles of the same subjects? I simply fail to see why we should continue to use this formatting. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 05:41, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't see any navboxes with parenthetical years in any of those articles. I believe the main rationale for omitting "present" in the navboxes was to reduce clutter. Whatever the case, it's not appropriate to just decide that the 32 NFL coach navboxes are an exception to a standard implemented on well over 1,000 sports tenure navboxes; see everything downstream from Category:Sports coach navigational boxes and Category:Sports executive navigational boxes. We should have a discussion first. Also, I believe that you misused the rollback feature in reverting my edits. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:50, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Most viewed Michigan Wolverines football articles in 2019
See User:Cbl62/Most viewed Michigan Wolverines football articles in 2019. It would be great to find a way to automate a list like this. I prepared it manually. Feel free to add anyone (or anything) who you think I may have missed (my criteria was > 10,000 page views). Cbl62 (talk) 22:38, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Jan 22: WikiWednesday Salon NYC
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Michigan bowl game navbox
Someone is adding a Michigan bowl navbox to player bios. E.g., here. This strikes me as wrong since the players are not listed in the navbox. Thoughts? Cbl62 (talk) 23:15, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Certainly wrong. Should be removed. I’m away from a computer the next couple days. Can you drop that editor a note? Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 00:04, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Done. I hope you enjoy your time away from the computer. Cbl62 (talk) 02:19, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

Saturday Jan 25: Met 'Understanding America' Edit-a-thon @ Metropolitan Museum of Art
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George H. Garrey
I reverted your additions to George H. Garrey because they appear to fail WP:V. Have you seen any reliable sources stating he coached for Stevens Point? It's very possible that Wisconsin–Stevens Point Pointers football coach navbox is incorrect. And even if it can be determined that he coached for a single season, I think a head coach statistics box is unwarranted and lends undue weight to a relatively minor aspect of his biography. Garrey is most known for mining geology: his article should thus not look like that of a college coach. His 4–1 season, if verifiable, can simply be stated in text. Cheers, --Animalparty! (talk) 23:25, 22 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the message. I agree about the lack of verification on Garrey being the Stevens Point coach in 1899. All we have is the Steven Points athletic website indicating that a "Mr. Garrey" was the head football coach in 1899; see here. did you ever find anything more conclusive that this George H. Garrey is the guy here? Animalparty, on the other issue, I disagree about the head coaching table, if the connection can be proven. That's a standard table that is included on every bio article for a college football head coach, irrespective of what else they were notable for. Many coaches in the 1800s and early 1900s only coached for a short time before going into other fields like academics, politics, law, finance, medicine, or the military, and often becoming at least as notable or more so in those other fields, e.g. Lucius Littauer, Harry Arista Mackey, William R. Blair, Frank W. Milburn, Fred W. Green, Evans Woollen, Arthur B. Woodford, Thomas Cochran (banker), and many more. Jweiss11 (talk) 01:16, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
 * My apologies for stalking. I suspect that, based on searches, that the Mr. Garrey may actually be Walter E. Garrey, George's brother and a former Chicago football player who in 1899 was studying for a Ph.D and would have potentially taken a coaching job for some easy money.108.21.182.146 (talk) 21:41, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
 * 108.21.182.146, no worries. That's great info. Jweiss11 (talk) 21:46, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Edits
Hi- Just out of curiosity, are you tracking my edits or something, and if so, why? 108.21.182.146 (talk) 16:41, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, I have looked at your edits a few times as you are editing college football coaching bio articles, most of which I have spent time on in the past. Can you check out the formatting edits I've been making to your additions? Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 16:43, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I respect the candor. I will work on my formatting, my apologies for that.108.21.182.146 (talk) 16:45, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Also I am probably going to be making an account soon. FYI so you don't think I'm being a sockpuppet. I will let you know the username when it is created, though I will not want to publicly link it to an IP address for obvious reasons. Once I do I will not be making any edits from this or other IP addresses.108.21.182.146 (talk) 16:48, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
 * No worries. I'm happy to discuss any points of style you might have questions or issues with. I was just about to suggest that register you an account. You seem like you have a lot to offer the project (e.g. that nice research you dug up about the Garrey brothers of Chicago). Jweiss11 (talk) 16:50, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks. That research was nothing. 15-20 min. 108.21.182.146 (talk) 17:02, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I made an account. Thanks.FlaviusFunderburke (talk) 21:42, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Overcapitalization
Is there a reason why, as in this diff, you frequently change "football" to "Football" in categories? It strikes me as overcapitalization since football is not a proper noun. Cbl62 (talk) 19:20, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm aware it's not a proper noun and would never do this for any sort of displayed content, but my understanding is that for category sort keys, each word is supposed to be capitalized. There's probably something turnabout this buried somewhere in the archives of Wikipedia talk:Categorization. Jweiss11 (talk) 19:24, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Template:1903 Midwestern college football independents records
There seems to be an error in Template:1903 Midwestern college football independents records. When it loads into an article, this happens. Any idea what happened here? Cbl62 (talk) 07:29, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Given the successful outcome on the first round of deletion discussions for the independents templates, feel free to nominate 1891-1904 ... or wait until we knock out a few more ... your call. Cbl62 (talk) 20:37, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I've nominated 1889 thru 1905 here. Jweiss11 (talk) 19:27, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
 * 1906 to 1911 1922 are now also ready for deletion. Cbl62 (talk) 05:27, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Cbl62, thanks for continuing to churn through these. Looks like we only have about 20 seasons left to do. If you plan to do finish the run through 1955 within the next couple weeks or so, I'll wait for you and then just do one AfD for all the obsolete templates. Also, how are you doing? Things have gotten real weird on this planet! I'm may look into doing some work on the 1918 college football season, as it is apropos of the times! Jweiss11 (talk) 01:49, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Not sure how quickly I'll be getting through these, but I leave it to you to decide when to submit to AfD. Doing fine here in California.  Hope you're doing well on your side of the continent. 1918 season does seem apropos at this time.  I hope this thing is under control before college football rolls around in five months. Cbl62 (talk) 03:25, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
 * 1906 to 1929 now done. Cbl62 (talk) 03:47, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

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CFB talk page
Did you see my response and counter proposal? Thoughts? FlaviusFunderburke (talk) 02:39, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

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Notice
–dlthewave ☎ 06:05, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

March 2020
Hello, I'm Dlthewave. I noticed that you added or changed content in an article, Race and intelligence, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so. You can have a look at the tutorial on citing sources, or if you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. (concerning this edit) –dlthewave ☎ 04:29, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I did no such thing. I restored content written by other editors. Please stop with spurious template warnings here. Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 05:47, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
 * You are responsible for the content that you add, regardless of whether it was originally written by somebody else. The diff shows that you restored unsouced content. –dlthewave ☎ 05:59, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

I've again removed the Global variation of IQ scores section as it was restored without explanation and the sourcing and off-topic issues have not been addressed. If you would like this content to be included, I would suggest that you add sources that demonstrate how it pertains to the Race and intelligence topic. Additionally, your "hostile and disruptive" accusation has no place on an article talk page; please save these personal comments for user talk or noticeboards. It is neither hostile nor disruptive to ask an editor to provide sources for content that they have added. –dlthewave ☎ 13:31, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Edit warring warning
Right now you and another editor appear to be in a slow motion edit war over whether or not to include a Global variation of IQ scores section at Race and intelligence. A slow motion edit war is still an edit war. If the ongoing discussion about the section cannot produce a clear enough consensus I would encourage you to try other methods of dispute resolution. Continued edit waring may result in other sanctions. Barkeep49 (talk) 15:32, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

AE Notice
I've opened an Arbitration Enforcement request regarding your conduct at Race and intelligence. The discussion can be found at Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement. –dlthewave ☎ 19:34, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Possible compromise
I've suggested a possible compromise between you and Guettarda on the talk page of the race and intelligence article, so I'd like to know whether this proposal is acceptable to both of you. 2600:1004:B14B:BF17:DD28:947E:9154:ADCF (talk) 23:07, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Dispute resolution
I have requested dispute resolution about the "Global variation of IQ scores" section: Please comment there when you're able to. 2600:1004:B166:536E:8800:9BF8:FCBA:FABB (talk) 16:27, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Invitation to join the Fifteen Year Society
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Happy First Edit Day!
 Happy First Edit Day! Have a very happy first edit anniversary!

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Louisville
I've been filling the gaps in the Louisville season articles. It's one of the last two Power 5 teams lacking coverage of all years (NC State is the other). The article on the Kentucky Intercollegiate Athletic Conference indicates that Louisville was a member from 1926-1948. Other sources seem to include them as an independent for at least some of these years. Do you have any sources on this? Cbl62 (talk) 17:31, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
 * In direct contradiction of the Kentucky Intercollegiate Athletic Conference article which claims Louisville as a member from 1926 to 1928, the Wiki article on Louisville Cardinals football says the team was an "Independent (1912–1962)". One of these two articles is incorrect. Cbl62 (talk) 18:18, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Cbl, I've noticed your efforts on Louisville! Unfortunately, I don't have any additional sources on this matter on hand. The 1935 Spalding guide I have doesn't seem to make any mention of the Kentucky Intercollegiate Athletic Conference. Jweiss11 (talk) 13:01, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
 * It's possible that both articles are technically correct (that is, if Louisville was a non-football member of the KIAC...although, as far as I can tell, the concept of joining a conference for only certain specific sports seems to be a relatively new phenomenon, with schools now competing in an average of 15 to 20 sports—including a few random sports that the rest of their fellow conference members may not be interested in sponsoring; back in the old days when schools only fielded teams in 5 to 10 sports, it would seem to have been a much more odd thing to do). Louisville's own website acknowledges winning a KIAC men's basketball tournament championship in 1928 ([]), so I think that it is safe to say that they were a member of the KIAC in at least some sports. Theduder3210 (talk) 19:04, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Theduder3210, that is another possibility. Here's another wrinkle: per the 1935 Spalding guide, Lousiville was a member of the Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Association (SIAA) in 1934. See my edits at 1934 Louisville Cardinals football team. Jweiss11 (talk) 20:14, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

"William Martin (Ameican football)" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect William Martin (Ameican football). Since you had some involvement with the William Martin (Ameican football) redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Regards, SONIC  678  17:15, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

Nomination of Kano (company) for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Kano (company) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Kano (company) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

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Notice
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Edit warring over template protection. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 20:57, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Your response to the behavioral discussion at WP:ANI may be more urgently required than further content-related responses in talk page discussions. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:36, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

April 2020
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 48 hours for persistently making disruptive edits. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page:. RexxS (talk) 18:16, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

I've blocked you for the combination of edit-warring and disrupting Wikipedia to make a point. This edit effectively vandalised 3,176 articles as well as the template. --RexxS (talk) 18:20, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , can you clarify the persistently disruptive edits? Jweiss11 (talk) 18:18, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , were you aware of the ANI discussion above? I already removed Template Editor because of that edit. And in looking at their edits today I see productive positive editing. I am unaware of further template disruption after the start of that ANI discussion. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 18:21, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
 * The standard notice states "persistently", but in my opinion, vandalising over 3,000 articles in addition to edit warring is equivalent. If you disagree with my justification for your block, you can use the unblock template, but I'd strongly advice you to read WP:GAB first. --RexxS (talk) 18:26, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
 * No I have not read the ANI discussion. I came here from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Accessibility and the revision history of Template:CBB yearly record start. Now that I'm aware of an ANI discussion, I'll go and see whether that alters my mind. --RexxS (talk) 18:30, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

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"Wayne Chiang" listed at Redirects for discussion
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"Wayne Chiang" listed at Redirects for discussion
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Category:American military sports coaches
I meant for this cat to be for coaches who were in the military while coaching. The way you reworded it opens it up for coaches either military or civilian. In retrospect, I think the way you have it is better. Thanks. Semper Fi! FieldMarine (talk) 23:28, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Please update
Please update the article []

"Human Covid-19 Immunoglobulin Injection"(Vaccine),trails going in India

https://www.newindianexpress.com/cities/hyderabad/2020/apr/30/hyderabad-firm-awaits-approval-for-covid-injection-trial-2137160.html

https://www.nyoooz.com/news/hyderabad/1440050/hyderabadfirm-awaits-approval-for-covid-injection-trial/

Thanq

(49.206.92.163 (talk) 02:23, 5 May 2020 (UTC))

Sat May 9: Symposium on Wikipedia and COVID-19
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OAC standings
Do you know of a source for Ohio Athletic Conference standings from the 1920s/1930s? Cbl62 (talk) 21:40, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Yep, the OAC record book has the whole history. Jweiss11 (talk) 21:41, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Excellent. Thanks. Cbl62 (talk) 23:02, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Todd Graham
What was the reason behind deleting Todd Graham’s “Coaching Tree” from his page? In my eyes, Coach Graham has a very impressive “Coaching Tree.” 2605:E000:180E:C70B:A5B0:2844:55B:EDCC (talk) 23:49, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for message here. Please take a look at the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football/Archive 23. The short answer is the coaching tree lists are only notable and appropriate for inclusion in cases where there multiple third-party sources discussing a given coach's tree or legacy of disciples as an entity. That's likely only going to be the case for a select number of highly-influential coaches. Jweiss11 (talk) 23:54, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Cat sort keys
Hi Jweiss! I see you pop up a lot in my watchlist, as you just did with 2017 Indiana State Sycamores football team, correcting minor details regarding category sorting. I appreciate the work you're doing and I was wondering if there were any instructions you could give me in how to do these myself in order to lessen the workload for you. Thanks! PCN02WPS ( talk  &#124;  contribs ) 02:25, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Lamar Hunt.jpg
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May 20: ONLINE WikiWednesday Salon NYC
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Kamil Tolon
I created this page. Could you please rewiev. It is from Turkish Wikipedia. Thank you!Yiğitcank (talk) 14:25, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Independents templates
Liking your work on the independents templates. Cbl62 (talk) 19:56, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks. You got the ball rolling breaking up pre-1956 ones into regions. Now it's just a matter of filling in the smaller schools. I've also been working on fleshing out the College Division and Division II independent templates. Jweiss11 (talk) 20:17, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Peter Stevens
The coaching chart for Peter P. Stevens shows Temple as a MAC member in 1958 and 1959, but the Temple media guide at pp. 130-131 doesn't show Temple as a MAC member til 1960. Do you know which is correct? Cbl62 (talk) 17:32, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Looks like Temple was a member of the MAC from 1958 on. See: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/52255390/the-morning-news/. Jweiss11 (talk) 19:49, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

1941 Maine
I created this article at 21:37 and was making further edits to add sources. That effort was lost because you began making stylistic edits to the article at 21:38. Can you PLEASE hold off on editing articles I create to avoid such edit conflicts? It is extremely frustrating to lose one's work due to such conflicts. If you could perhaps wait at least a couple hours after I've finished my initial work before making your stylistic edits, that would be great. Thanks. Cbl62 (talk) 02:43, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Apologies for getting in your way with the edit conflict. I was hoping to steer the formatting so that you'd copy a cleaner version of it the next article and save me or sometime else time down the road. Jweiss11 (talk) 13:56, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks. If you can just give a couple hours of space between my creating an article and your editing it, that would be great. Edit conflicts, especially when an article is undergoing initial construction, can be very annoying. Cbl62 (talk) 14:50, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

University/College Division season articles
We still need to resolve the WP:V and WP:OR concerns in connection with our University Division and College Division football season articles (1956-1972). These concerns were previously discussed last year at User talk:Jweiss11/Archives/2019. I am going to ping since he was the one who initiated that discussion.

As far as I can tell, we have made no progress in clarifying which schools were members of the University Division from one year to the next. As a result, our NCAA University Division and College Division season articles and templates are based largely on guesswork. This violates Wikipedia's core policies. I say this not as a criticism, since the source material is not easy to find.

Earlier today, I created NCAA University Division which can be used as a vehicle for clarifying some of these concerns. To summarize, though, the concerns include the following:
 * It is pretty clear from my research that there was no such thing as a 1956 NCAA University Division football season or a 1957 NCAA University Division football season. The extension of the concept to football came later. The 1956 and 1957 seasons should IMO be reverted to 1956 college football season and 1957 college football season. If you have sources to show that I am wrong, let me know.
 * We still have no sources showing which teams were members of the University Division from 1958 to 1972. Instead, the classification reflected in those season articles and templates is based on assumptions/guesses.
 * We know that membership in the University Division was broader and different for purposes of basketball. Accordingly, we cannot rely on basketball classification.
 * We know that, unlike basketball, membership in a conference did not automatically confer University Division status. See, e.g., this article, noting that: "Classifications are not made by conferences . . . and being in the Southern Conference does not automatically make a school be of major standing. Nor does one sport affect another." Accordingly, we can't just treat all members of a conference similarly.
 * We also know from contemporaneous newspaper accounts (some of which were identified in the earlier discussion) that the ranks of the University Division changed from year to year with some teams being dropped and others added. This divisional migration from year to year makes all the more urgent the need for reliable sources showing who was UD vs. CD from one year to the next.

Given these uncertainties, our current University Division articles and templates raise "red alert" level concerns with core Wikipedia policies, including WP:V and WP:OR. Answers, suggestions, proposals? Cbl62 (talk) 19:59, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
 * This article indicates that the NCAA published an official list each year of which football programs were classified as University Division. It would be great if those official lists could be found. Cbl62 (talk) 21:00, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
 * * NCAA College Division also now created. Cbl62 (talk) 22:02, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
 * * While we've found sourcing, the issue remains with respect to my conclusion that there was no 1956 NCAA University Division football season or a 1957 NCAA University Division football season. Do you have any sources showing that the "University Division" concept was recognized for purposes of football in those years? Do you have an objection on my proposal to revert these to "1956 college football season" and "1957 college football season"?

Offensive and defensive scheme parameters in infobox
You have pointed to the infobox in 1939 Dayton Flyers football team as a model to use in rolling out further season articles. It generally looks good to me, and I am trying to use it as a model. However, there is one issue that I take issue with. I do not think that the offensive/defensive scheme parameters should be included as a matter of routine. If there are reliable sources identifying such schemes, they can be added, but I doubt there are more than a dozen historic season articles where this parameter is properly sourced. To the contrary, these parameters have functioned for too long as a vehicle for original research, unsourced assertions, guesswork, and/or speculation. I would absolutely not encourage such practices by including the parameters as a matter of routine. Cbl62 (talk) 22:57, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I see your point about those. They tend to be bigger problems for more recent years where stuff gets copied over from year-to-year as new articles for the current season get created. Jweiss11 (talk) 23:01, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Ratings
See Talk:1932 Colgate Red Raiders football team -- standards sure have changed since 2009 for rating articles. Cbl62 (talk) 17:39, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Duke Duford
"he was still the coach thru that whole interview (i believe)" -- can you clarify? What interview? I don't see the interview being cited in the article.
 * I meant to say "interval", as in he was the head football coach at Saint Louis from 1940 to 1947, even though the team didn't play in 1943 and 1944. Jweiss11 (talk) 16:29, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * How could he be a head football coach for a team that did not exist? Cbl62 (talk) 16:30, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The sources I see describe him as athletic director in 1943 and 1944, but I don't see any sources calling him the head football coach in those years during which there was no football team to coach. Cbl62 (talk) 16:33, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I found some referring to him as "coach", so I guess this ok. Cbl62 (talk) 16:34, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The team was dormant, but I suspect Duford still held the title of head football coach. See similar examples of other coaches who held their titles through dormant war years: Frank Thomas, Roy Randall, Julius Wagner. Jweiss11 (talk) 16:41, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
 * If they still held the title, it's fine, but there needs to be sourcing for that. Many coaches joined the military during WWII, and it's not good practice to simply "assume" or "suspect" that a coach still held the title of head football coach. Cbl62 (talk) 16:54, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Middle Three Conference
In recent season articles on Lafayette, I have described them as an independent. Some pre-existing articles also follow this, e.g., 1948 Lafayette Leopards football team. The Middle Three Conference is described in our Wikipedia article as a "scheduling alliance" rather than an actual conference. The treatment of these teams is inconsistent across Wikipedia. Compare Rutgers season articles in which I previously assumed MTC was an actual conference. We should settle on a uniform standard and apply it. I plan to do a bit more research to see how contemporary sources treat them. If you have sources or thoughts, let me know. Cbl62 (talk) 22:16, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Newspapers.com searches indicate the MTC was treated as a real conference with champions. Ugh. I need to redo all the Lafayette season articles. Cbl62 (talk) 22:22, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I was going to ping you about the Middle Three Conference. Wasn't sure if it was a real conference or not. There's also the Little Three. Jweiss11 (talk) 22:35, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * And the Western New York Little Three Conference. Cbl62 (talk) 02:35, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

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New Page Reviewer newsletter June 2020
Hello ,

NPP Sorting can be a great way to find pages needing new page patrolling that match your strengths and interests. Using ORES, it divides articles into topics such as Literature or Chemistry and on Geography. Take a look and see if you can find time to patrol a couple pages a day. With over 10,000 pages in the queue, the highest it's been since ACPERM, your help could really make a difference. In late February, Google added 5 new languages to Google Translate: Kinyarwanda, Odia (Oriya), Tatar, Turkmen and Uyghur. This expands our ability to find and evaluate sources in those languages.
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Orphaned non-free image File:William D. Murray.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:William D. Murray.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Kerr Stadium
Earlier today, you made an edit changing the location of Andy Kerr Stadium from Hamilton, New York to Hamilton (village), New York. I've been unable to find a definitive source, but during the build out of the Colgate season articles, I concluded that the stadium was located outside the village limits. See, e.g. here (I infer that the smaller yellow area is the village located at the historic core of the larger town of Hamilton). Do you have sourcing that indicates that the stadium was located inside the village limits? Cbl62 (talk) 17:16, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * No, I don't have a source. I've just been going off the Andy Kerr Stadium article, which indicates Hamilton (village), New York. Jweiss11 (talk) 17:21, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a reliable source, and, while I'm still not 100% sure, that article appears based on my research to be wrong. Cbl62 (talk) 17:48, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Hyphen in "team=Baldwin–Wallace Yellow Jackets"
On a couple of recent occasions you've added a hyphen in the "cfb link" for "team=Baldwin–Wallace Yellow Jackets". Yet the main article for "Baldwin Wallace Yellow Jackets" has no such hyphen. Your edits thus direct the link away from the main article and to a redirect instead. Why? Cbl62 (talk) 13:20, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The school used some sort of grammatical symbol between "Baldwin" and "Wallace" until a few years ago. I'm not sure whether a hyphen or an endash is most appropriate. When using Template:cfb link and the like, you always want to go the contemporary name of the team in question. For example on 1950 John Carroll Blue Streaks football team, you want to use, so the if and when 1950 Baldwin–Wallace Yellow Jackets football team is created, the links will update properly. Jweiss11 (talk) 15:13, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Clarence Munn.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Clarence Munn.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Another edit conflict
I created 1909 Iowa State Normals football team moments ago and was in the process of editing further when you jumped in with edits. This resulted in an edit conflict causing me to have to redo my efforts. This is not the first time. I do appreciate your help on these articles and simply ask that you hold off for a couple hours from my initial work before you start editing. I have asked this in the past and don't think this is too much to ask. Cbl62 (talk) 23:03, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't want to discourage the collaboration, which I do appreciate. But even one hour would help.  The problem is when your edits begin so rapidly, in this case less than 10 minutes after the article was created. Cbl62 (talk) 23:10, 7 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I will try not to be so zealous with the new articles! Jweiss11 (talk) 00:56, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

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Conference records
Those additions of historical conference records are very small edits that combined make a huge difference. Thank you.--Paul McDonald (talk) 18:08, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Paul, thanks. I was going to drop you a line letting you know that I'm working on fleshing out the standing templates for the KCAC. Got Central Intercollegiate Conference and Missouri College Athletic Union complete and Mid-America Intercollegiate Athletics Association done back to 1924. Jweiss11 (talk) 18:13, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I'll check them out!--Paul McDonald (talk) 18:49, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Brian Kelly
Brian Kelly (American football coach)? Cbl62 (talk) 05:29, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Kelly seems like a guy that could have a notable coaching tree: 30 years as a head coach with lots of success and seemingly a shoo-in HOFer. But there's no sources there. Take a look at Todd Graham. In the spring, I went back and forth with an IP editor who was initially adding the section with no sources. Graham strikes me as a guy who doesn't quite fall into the echelon of highly influential coaches. But, ultimately the IP found and added two sources discussing Graham's tree, so I let it stand. Jweiss11 (talk) 20:14, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

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1980 Memphis State Tigers football team
You changed this article which showed the team as a member of the Metro Conference to showing it as an independent. The Memphis Tigers football media guide (here, at p. 272) says they were, in fact, members of the Metro Conference. Also, the Wikipedia article on the conference indicates Memphis was a member. Given this sourcing, what was your basis for changing to independent? Cbl62 (talk) 03:57, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Contemporaneous newspaper accounts confirm Memphis State was part of the Metro Conference in 1980. I'm going to go ahead and revert your edit. Let me know if you wish to discuss. Cbl62 (talk) 04:04, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
 * As described in the lead Metro Conference, that conference never sponsored football. You can see Memphis State listed as in independent in 1980 here: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/57569330/the-boston-globe/. The Memphis media guide is wrong, as media guides so often can be. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:48, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clarifying. I've found most media guides to be more accurate than secondary sources like SR/College Football, but in this case the Memphis media guide appears to be incorrect. Cbl62 (talk) 15:02, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Michigan-Penn State rivalry?
Ten years ago, I'd have resisted the idea of a Michigan-Penn State rivalry article. Still not sure, but it's definitely getting closer. The teams have now played 23 times, including 11 marquee matchups in which both teams were ranked and two games (1994 and 1997) when both were in the top 5. Both teams rank in the top 10 at List of NCAA football teams by wins. Series history here. Thoughts? Cbl62 (talk) 07:42, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * What's happened in the last 10 years to change your mind? Why is the number of total wins by each program relevant. What are you sources like to establish this is a legit rivalry? Jweiss11 (talk) 23:55, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Haven't searched Newspapers.com yet, and I'm not taking a position (yet) ... but there are some developments that are moving it in that direction:
 * (1) The "competitiveness" factor is clearly satisfied. The last 23 years have seen some incredible and competitive games. In the last 15 years, it's frankly been more competitive and interesting than the Ohio State rivalry. The existence of 11 marquee matchups in 23 years is a also a strong indicator of notability.
 * (2) There's also a natural drive in the Penn State fan base to establish "real", meaningful, and current rivalries. The effort to force rivalries with Maryland and Michigan State never really took hold. (There's also an article on a supposed Minnesota–Penn State football rivalry, but that one doesn't appear to have much (or any) substance.) Penn State's practice of scheduling Michigan as the annual White Out game (2006, 20010, 2013, 2015, 2017, 2019) is a strong indicator that Penn State considers Michigan to be The Big Game, i.e., a rivalry. Tellingly, Michigan has been featured in more White Outs than any other program, and the supposed "rivals" Maryland, Michigan State, and Minnesota have never been scheduled as a White Out.
 * Total games won by each program is relevant, as it objectively shows the obvious, i.e, that these are two of the most important historical programs. A rivalry between such programs is more notable than a rivalry between second-tier programs. Cbl62 (talk) 01:29, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

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Dead links
Thanks for killing the dead links on 1934 college football season. I rescued one of them thanks to our good friends at Internet Archive. They had a copy of the yalebulldogs.com link from 2015. I didn't bother with the Google link, I doubt very much archive.org would have archived it, and it was not needed anyway. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  16:22, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

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Do you know where I can find ...
The consensus discussions about NOT adding “U.S” after City, State in infoboxes like Template:Infobox college coach? I’d like to point an editor to these discussions as they seem to be adding this to infoboxes for baseball, football, NCAA coach, etc. Thanks. Rikster2 (talk) 15:49, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
 * If we can’t find consensus discussions for any of the football or college coach infoboxes then the editor is perfectly within her rights to add “US” after City, State. If there is not a consensus discussion then now would be the time to start one of there is energy around this issue. If there isn’t, then I don’t see why the editor shouldn’t add it. Rikster2 (talk) 22:57, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I recall there being discussions about this, but I don't know when and where. Long-established examples in template documentation and overwhelming standards in practice should count for something. It's certainly fine to have a new discussion, but it would probably be best to have a unified one that addresses all North American sports. Jweiss11 (talk) 23:16, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

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NAIA Division II season articles???
I noticed that you created 1973 Northwestern Red Raiders football team. Northwestern College (Iowa) has an undergraduate student body of 1,000 (not sure what it was in 1973) and in 1973 competed in NAIA Division II. NAIA Division II represents approximately the sixth (and lowest?) tier of college football (FBS > FCS > NCAA Div II > NCAA Div III > NAIA Div I > NAIA Div II), competing at a level that is probably lower than many high school programs. While I admire the tenacity, I question the wisdom of starting season articles on NAIA football teams. Cbl62 (talk) 18:09, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
 * 1973 Northwestern Red Raiders football team doesn't strike me any less notable than say 1933 DePauw Tigers football team, which you created. Tjhe 1973 Northwestern team also beat South Dakota State, a program for which you created articles like 1960 South Dakota State Jackrabbits football team. I also don't think there's that much difference in notability once you drop below NCAA Division II. We've already got a navbox for the NAIA champions (Template:NAIA football national champion navbox). Articles for many others NAIA champions have been created. Jweiss11 (talk) 01:50, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I do see that there's a template, and the list of NAIA Division II champions now has three blue links and approximately 30 redlinks. The analysis comes down to GNG, but season articles for the sixth and lowest tier of college football are likely to draw fire from editors with a skeptical view of college football. All I'm saying is that I'd be very reluctant to spend time creating such articles absent a strong showing of GNG-level coverage.
 * As for 1933 DePauw Tigers football team, that article was created as a test case. The 1933 season seemed an appropriate test as it (a) played in the era before college football was stratified into divisions, and (b) compiled a perfect 7–0 record. I would not advocate rolling out season articles for every Depauw season. Cbl62 (talk) 10:12, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Jack Stovall
I'm looking to expand Jack Stovall a little; he seems to have left coaching after the CCSC job. Where did you find these details: ? Thanks, Mackensen (talk) 14:40, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Mackensen, probably digging around on Newspapers.com. Looks like you clipped this article, which has those details. Jweiss11 (talk) 22:24, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Yep, thanks. I think this is also him; unusual career. Mackensen (talk) 22:55, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

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Potential user deletion
Good morning. I hope this is the right place to send you this note, but I was recently referred for "speedy deletion" because of some confusion about the content that you've helped me with. I am very upset about this as my work has been very thorough and detailed, all for the sake of bringing these stories to life. I assisted you on the LA Wildcats of the 1926 AFL when you asked for it and I have complied with every request you've had on edits and changes to the pages I've submitted. I am doing this merely for fun and a deep sense of bringing light to these long-lost stories. I have no other agenda than that, and have no commercial or financial incentives on any of this. What my research has shown, in addition to bringing these old stories to light, is that I have been able to correct some mistakes that various colleges and football reference sites have had with regards to the Jefferson and Dixie teams, because they had these facts wrong, so I am helping them correct their history.

Examples are that I discovered that Oklahoma A&M (OK State, now) actually played a double-header in 1932 against Phillips and Central Oklahoma -- no one knew that, but I proved it and got the record corrected -- OK State later played Jefferson that season. Regarding Dixie, many schools, including those on Wikipedia are confusing that school with the present-day Dixie State College in Utah -- as soon as my Dixie page is fixed, I can correct those mistakes. Meanwhile, both Texas A&M-Kingsville and Texas Tech mistakenly had their games with Dixie listed as road games for both schools -- in fact, they were home games for both schools. Kingsville has acknowledged the mistake and will correct it when they publish their next record book for next season. Texas Tech has not responded yet, but I've emailed them and tweeted them.

I am also going to write a page for Nick Dobbs, the coach of the 1932-33 Jefferson/Dixie teams. About a month ago, I interviewed and discussed with his 90-year-old daughter for over an hour about what I had learned about her father, most of which she never knew, and what she recalled about him. She was born in Dallas while he was here. I tracked down her daughter-in-law through Ancestry.com, who then arranged the call with Dobbs' daughter who lives in Florida, and they are going to send me some more material and photos on Nick Dobbs for the Wikipedia entry.

Can you please assist me at getting this potential deletion stopped? I am merely an amateur at this but I really enjoy writing these stories for Wikipedia's and the readers' sake. If you are able to call me to discuss, or email me, I am happy to accommodate that, if you all are able to or allowed to do that. Thank you. BBrooksDallas (talk) 17:12, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Saint Mary's football
Hi – quick question about when college football at Saint Mary's started? I ask because I did a quick search to see when they stopped using Redmen, which was 1988 per news report here. That report suggests that during the 1926–1935 period, the school hadn't adopted Redmen yet. But I'm not sure if they were playing football during that 1926–1935 period, so wanted to ask. Thanks. Dmoore5556 (talk) 02:07, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Looks like the "Redmen" nickname came into use around 1928, before which the teams were known as the Maroons or Maroon and White. They played from at least 1919 until 1954. See Tom Skemp. Jweiss11 (talk) 02:11, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Got it, thanks. I was able to find a 1930 usage of Redmen here; there may be earlier usages in local or campus papers that aren't in the Newspapers.com archive. Dmoore5556 (talk) 06:14, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * The earliest usage of "Redmen" I've found is January 1928; see here. Jweiss11 (talk) 06:17, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

New Page Patrol December Newsletter
Hello ,



It has been a productive year for New Page Patrol as we've roughly cut the size of the New Page Patrol queue in half this year. We have been fortunate to have a lot of great work done by who was the reviewer of the most pages and redirects this past year. Thanks and credit go to and  who join Rosguill in repeating in the top 10 from last year. Thanks to, , and who all got the NPR permission this year and joined the top 10. Also new to the top ten is DannyS712 bot III, programmed by which has helped to dramatically reduce the number of redirects that have needed human patrolling by patrolling certain types of redirects (e.g. for differences in accents) and by also patrolling editors who are on on the redirect whitelist.
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 * Reviewer of the Year

As a special recognition and thank you has been awarded the first NPP Technical Achievement Award. His work programming the bot has helped us patrol redirects tremendously - more than 60,000 redirects this past year. This has been a large contribution to New Page Patrol and definitely is worthy of recognition.
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Les Miles
Hi, I saw your question about Les Miles at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football. If it helps, I did some quick searches and found that Miles stated "Joshua Eargle will fill in as acting head coach" here, and the loss shows up on the page of Joshua Eargle. Whether Miles' statement equates to Eargle being the official coach of record isn't clear (to me). Dmoore5556 (talk) 06:45, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the note about Eargle, but it certainly isn't clear from this statement who the coach of record is. Jweiss11 (talk) 07:00, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

Western Maryland Bears?
Re: did you mean to make this change? If you did, I think you may have forgotten to change the team name to Green Terror.

Well, I guess a very large angry bear who ate a bad meal might be called a "green terror." davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs) 🎄  02:32, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the catch. I meant to change "McDaniel" to "Western Maryland". I've fixed it. Jweiss11 (talk) 03:30, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
 * You are welcome. I have Category:College sports link error‎‎ on my watchlist, that's how I noticed it and 1997 NCAA Division III football season, which had a clear fix. davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs) 🎄  15:42, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi, American
Do you think articles such as Chelsea Manning - which simply doesn't mention the word "torture" one single time - are also balanced or your critical capacity is limited to reviewing articles of the political enemies of your country? Dornicke (talk) 03:54, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
 * The Chelsea Manning article in fact mentions "torture" twice. Jweiss11 (talk) 03:56, 29 December 2020 (UTC)


 * It doesn't mention "tortured" not a single time. Do you intend to create an article about US journalist Rebekah Jones as being a victim of torture and oppressive dictatorship for exposing Covid data manipulation or is this also reserved for political enemies of your country? Dornicke (talk) 03:59, 29 December 2020 (UTC)


 * There are two instances of "torture" or its variant "torturers" in the Manning article: "Juan E. Méndez, United Nations Special Rapporteur on torture, told..." and "Manning's debut under the new arrangement, "The CIA's torturers...". There is already an article on Rebekah Jones. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:06, 29 December 2020 (UTC)


 * See, Manning's treatment was far more inhumane than being handcuffed, and there is not a single sentence saying "Manning was tortured", such as in Zhang Zhan's article ("Zhang was tortured for three months before sentencing"). Not a single direct reference of her being a victim of torture. Why? Also, why isn't Rebekah Jones being identified as a victim of misconduct? Rather than that, the article presents both her and the authorities account. Why? Only victims of US/Western crimes are elegible to have articles written under a neutral tone, without POV-pushing against the government? Dornicke (talk) 04:18, 29 December 2020 (UTC)


 * I'm not responsible for writing either the Manning or Jones articles. A cursory scan of each suggests they are each reasonably balanced. However, your participation here on Wikipedia strikes me as good example of NOT HERE. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:42, 29 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Oh, ad hominem already. That was fast. I thought you would try to disguise your obvious political bias a little more. People who are here to promote anticommunist, mccarthyst, pro-American, liberal, pro-market, capitalist bullshit will always attack those who are not here for that or who don't share their mindset. You are not the first, you won't be the last, American. I know that - in opposition to the "land of the free" bullshit - you guys actually dream of a world where people are forbidden by law of being leftists, but being a leftist doesn't mean I can not participate of this project - unless you believe this is a right-wing project. Do you? Dornicke (talk) 04:53, 29 December 2020 (UTC)


 * NOT HERE is not an ad hominem. It's an assessment of your editing behavior. Now attacking another editor on the basis of his nationality? That's the ad hominen you're looking for. I think Wikipedia, like any effort that attempts to assemble and disseminate what is true, is in principle a liberal project. Although in practice, at the moment, in some subjects areas, it does suffer from a leftist bias. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:02, 29 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Then read it until you understand that "Respect for core editing standards" includes avoiding political bias. You did exactly the oposite. You tried to impose your political bias in that article as a manner of using wikipedia to attack China. If there's someone who's here not to build an encyclopedia, I guess it's you. Dornicke (talk) 05:06, 29 December 2020 (UTC)


 * I have hundreds of thousands of edits here that have nothing to do with politics, much less work in service of political bias. How about you? Jweiss11 (talk) 05:08, 29 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Me too, thousands of edits and featured articles about alls subjects - from art to science - in Portuguese Wikipedia, where I've been editing for the last 13 years. But I'm tired of seeing US pov-pushing in political subjects in the anglophone wikipedia, which is then replicated in the sister projects. Dornicke (talk) 05:13, 29 December 2020 (UTC)