User talk:JzG/Archive 12

Good work on User:Socafan
I might not have pushed so hard, but you were clearly right, and the Socafan was clearly in the wrong. Keep up the good work, it is appreciated. JesseW, the juggling janitor 22:18, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * ready to archive Just zis Guy you know? 21:02, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

myg0t
Hi, I noticed you had some history reguarding the myg0t article. Well, the article is up for DrV, and I ask that you post your thoughts on whether or not it should be undeleted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review#myg0t - thanks, cacophony 23:24, 14 July 2006 (UTC) ;)

need a vist please
Do you think you could avert an edit war before it starts please? Please see discussion at the bottom of course in miracles. Thanks. Ste4k 23:40, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Sam Sloan announcement
"I did not 'attempt' to post 100 chess biographies on Wikipedia. I did post 100 chess biographies on Wikipedia. All but one of them is still there. I merely waited until [ Rook wave ], [ Phr ] and Louis Blair were not looking and reposted them. I added a new biography yesterday and no I am not going to tell you where it is for fear that they will vandalize it again." - Sam Sloan (samhsloan@gmail.com, NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.199.110.255, 11 Jul 2006 05:23:13 -0700) http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.chess.misc/msg/f245a0650c22f010?hl=en

"My Biography of Dimitrije Bjelica" - Sam Sloan (sloan@ishipress.com, NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.199.110.255, Sun, 16 Jul 2006 19:09:34 GMT) http://groups.google.com/group/samsloan/msg/eefc91bb2aeda9d0?hl=en http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimitrije_Bjelica - Louis Blair (July 19, 2006)

Noel Rawsthorne
No problem! Shame there isn't more information about him online, as I don't know a great deal offhand. David L Rattigan 12:28, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Don't touch my posts
If you touch my posts I will report vandalism —Preceding unsigned comment added by BillyColl (talk • contribs)
 * Like the Talk comment said, that article was deleted. You are the second person to repost it - if you are not the same as the original one...

please see
please see: Talk:Sculpture_of_Ancient_Greece. Thanks. Ste4k 12:27, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Asperger syndrome
I see you've been down this road before. Talk:Asperger syndrome I'm somewhat new to Wiki myself:  is it time for an ArbCom, would that help considering the extensive history, and if so, how does one do that? Sandy 22:34, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * God knows. It's a thorny problem - the reliable secondary sources here are medical, so those who are in what might be termed denial of the medical interpretation simply don't make it into the medical journals.  It might be worth floating it around the mailing list (WikiEN-l) or the admin noticeboard; I freely confess to be well out of my depth with that one! Just zis Guy you know? 13:03, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Editor Crossmr and LiveJournal
Please look at the edit record with regard to Crossmr and LiveJournal: it appears that he is (ab)using Wikipedia rules to systematically remove all material which places LiveJournal management in a bad light regardless of the facts: for example, multiple LJ users' accounts of identical actions by the LJ Abuse Team are removed "because LiveJournals are weblogs and Jimbo Wales has decreed that these are unacceptable as sources" (quasi-quote). OTOH, he allows LJ management statements to appear unchallenged because LJ management speaking for itself is "an official source." The net effect is that the article POV in favor of LJ management. He does this with other material in the article as well. In another example, he has repetedly censored the fact that some LJ users abbreviate the phrase "Friend-list" as "flist", even though a casual LJ user will see the neologism repeatedly in use. A quick scan through the record will show many similar removals and reverts of factual information he just plainly doesn't want to appear in the article, all under the guise of following WP guidelines, following their letter but not their spirit. We have disagreed in the past, but you strike me as basically a fair man. I realize I can be hot-headed when information which I personally know to be true is reverted, and have a tendency to personalize, so I withdrew myself from arguing with him about this several days ago. Your advice and perhaps intervention would be appreciated. Davidkevin 23:05, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I find your accusation that I'm abusing the rules a bit of a personal attack. Just because you want to include material you can't source properly is no reason to start accusing me of abusing the rules. Perhaps you need to re-read WP:OR, WP:V and several of the other policies on including content in wikipedia again, but we don't relax the rules just because you think the content should be included, especially on policies that are the cornerstone of wikipedia. Schmucky was able to go out and find sources for the breastfeeding material, as such, it remains. Its not a complicated process. If you want to include a theory, put forth an original idea, define a term, introduce an argument (like a criticism), or several of the other things on this list WP:OR You need to bring a citation. If you cannot, its original research and cannot be kept in the article. The policy cannot be misinterpreted as it clearly states These three policies are non-negotiable and cannot be superseded by other policies or guidelines, or by editors' consensus. So while you, or I, or a dozen of us may agree that some term means something, without a citation it fails the original research test and must be excluded. The complimentary policy Verifiability also has a very clear definition of what may be included. This is also a non-negotiable policy. The first paragraph very clearly defines the goal of this encyclopedia and what you wanted to include flew in the face of that. This spells it out very clearly The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is thus verifiability, not truth. These are not just good ideas, these are binding policies for inclusion of content.--Crossmr 00:52, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I think it's extraordinarily tacky to attempt to start an argument in someone's User Talk page, but since you have misinterpreted my request for review as a besmirchment, I will reply here this one time. I don't presume to speak for him, but I would request that this not occur again in JzG's User Talk page.


 * I would be more inclined to believe you if these policies were enforced as stringently elsewhere as you enforce them in this one particular article, and if it didn't appear that your pattern of these deletions enforce a particular point of view.


 * However, rather than make the mistake of claiming my perception is an objective fact, I have asked JzG to please review the LiveJournal edit record.


 * If you want to personalize this review request into a personal attack upon you I cannot stop you from doing so, but that is not my intent. My intent is that facts not be disincluded for capricious, arbitrary, or rules-abusive reasons.  An unbiased administrative review will help in this regard, I believe.


 * I am trying very hard (JzG knows with what a temper I can sometimes express myself) to not be "personally attack-ive", as it were. Looking at what I wrote above, I guess I could still have been better at it, and I'm sorry for that.  However the issues are valid ones over which to be concerned, it seems to me, which is why I'm asking someone else to look at the record.


 * I await JzG's review at his convenience, or if he is not able, I would hope he can request someone of equal disinterest to do it instead.


 * Davidkevin 01:39, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Not at all an argument, just ensuring he receives both sides of whats going on. Your tone was accusatory and very negative in regards to your perception of my behaviour.--Crossmr 01:53, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * WP:RS is somewhat ambiguous here. It allows the use of blogs as primary sources when discussing their subject but in this case that woudl depend on whether you consider the subject to be LJ or the individual LJ users.  Either interpretation is valid, and if there are a significant number I would be inclined to allow it with some care given to the wording.  I'd also be inclined to keep it very short, as there is no evidence presented that this event was considered significant by anyone other than the livejournallers themselves.  But that is just my personal view; as always, secondary sources are preferred.  It would be much better to find coverage of this story in one of the tech journals and say "according to s--and-so" where so-and-so is a source of known authority, and most importantly it would allow us to have a secondary source for the purported imnportance of the events, which is the real issue for me.  Have any of the notable web-watchers covered this in sufficient detail to be helpful? Just zis Guy you know? 12:58, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
 * In this case its seemingly used to support criticism about Livejournal and to support a definition of flist. I don't believe anyone's written a blog entry about what they feel flist means, so that usage is definitely out. I'd also mention that RS was recently changed by someone trying to push an agenda for inclusion of certain content in a couple of articles based wholely on unreliable usenet posts. Previous to this it read that blogs were never usable unless the person was a well known researcher or journalist. I think trying to source blog opinion on LJ is a bit pointless. You have no way of knowing if they're in the significant majority (unless you can find some credible sources), so simply saying "xx livejournal user said this" doesn't satisfy the criteria for inclusion because really, why is that person's opinion encyclopedic? There are hundreds of thousands of users, we could make the article pretty long sourcing each of their opinions.--Crossmr 16:20, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I suggets mediation. I really don't have the time to get into another content dispute right now, and the arguments are detailed. Just zis Guy you know? 11:19, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Notices
Thank you for the "Rouge Admin" thingy. Please be aware that I do not use userboxes, nor am I particularly enamored of the sentiment implied by that one. I realize you meant well; however, I have removed it. DS 00:43, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Rouge is as rouge does :-) 12:48, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you can help with this though...
I meant to move a page this morning List of tallest structures in Paris => List of tallest structures in the Paris region) and almost made a mistake - I cut and pasted the article content from one page to another (where there was once a redirect back to the original page) and saved it. I should have used the 'move tab' - I did not know that it was possible to move 'over' a redirect but caught this in time by some 'in doubt' last-minute reading. - and my error gave the page I wanted to move to a history, which made it impossible to complete the move. Could you somehow efface my 'history' error and make the move possible once again?

Thank you, regards,

T HE P ROMENADER 08:05, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * This is a complex move, I will do it when I get a minute. Just zis Guy you know? 12:47, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Really? I had no idea it would be hard to fix - apologies. No hurry at all, as the move has been temporarily 'waylaid' through some creative juggling. Thanks, and sorry for the trouble.  T HE P ROMENADER  13:26, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * It's not hard to fix. I have to delete the redirect, move, then undelete to restore and merge the deleted history.  It's a mildly tedious action but not an especially arduous one. Just zis Guy you know? 13:28, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Wait a second - perhaps I wasn't clear. I was asking that you clear the history of the List of tallest structures in the Paris region - leaving the redirect there - but 'freeing' the namespace for an eventual future move. If a page has a history, one can't move over it - and the only history the List of tallest structures in the Paris region page has is my 'paste' error, so it would seem alright just to just eliminate this without worrying about special treatment. Or did I miss something? Anyhow, thanks. T HE P ROMENADER 14:14, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Done. Might work, but doesn't matter too much if not. Just zis Guy you know? 14:19, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Thank you, sir! Sorry for the mess.  T HE P ROMENADER  21:42, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Overreaction
I think you need to actually look at the edit history of the Religious life. It was never pointed toward Religious order. Your tone is really over the top here. Vaquero100 19:55, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Also, someone who writes this:

I wonder which hoary old argument has just been revived? Could it perhaps be the perenial demand by the Papists to move their article from Roman Catholic Church to Catholic Church? I must wander along and have a look - maybe there will be a new argument this time. Yes, yes, I know - the triumph of hope over experience... Just zis Guy you know? 21:01, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

perhaps should not be so quick to judge. Your edits have a clear bias. I have not seen any evidence that you are willing to engage in a discussion of Catholic naming issues from the perspective of WP conventions and policies. This is problematic for an administrator who can enforce his bias with impunity. If you would like to have a rational discussion, I am more than open to it. But threats will not help the situation. You might also want to read this article: Papist  Vaquero100 20:11, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Since you appear to view everything through the filter of how closely it matches your own agenda, I have little doubt that you would never perceive any position other than your own as neutral. This is known locally as MPOV.  For your information I have taken part in these discussions some while back.  As far as I'm concerned the issue is settled long since, notwithstanding the occasional rehashing of the same arguments.  Of course I, as an Anglo-Catholic, have a bias as well.  The difference is that I am open about it and do my best to discount it.

You are right that the redirect was not to religious order. I aoplogise. On the toher hand, it should have been. To point it to a Catholic-specific article in the first place was a failure of WP:NPOV. Your user page makes it quite plain that you are waging a POV-pushing campaign. Just zis Guy you know? 20:30, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

You are right, I should have directed "religious life" to "religious order." It was a thoughtless error on my part but not with malicious intent. And I have no argument with the present redirect. Your anti-Catholic commentary suggests that you have a bias regarding issues I edit on. When Anglicans and others move an article without discussion, administrators look the other way. If I move it back because there was no due process, I get threats. If you are going to have a role in Catholic related articles (which your Papist comments to me suggests you shold not), then you and other administrators should be more even handed. Also, it would show good faith on your part if you would actually demonstrate in your commentary a familiarity with CC vs. RCC. The arguments have become much better developed than they were in March. The March discussion was not argued from a WP standpoint but a theological one. The arguments on the page just sited are not a rehash. However, it appears that you are comfortable hiding behind "an old conversation" because it suits you. This kind of intransigence among WP administrators will be WP's undoing in the long run. How is it possible for 17 people last March to decide with authority and finality something so obviously controversial. This is irrational.

It is also a convenience for you to label me as one who cannot possibly see another side of an argument. This of course works both ways. You and your fellows have shown nothing but disdain for rational discourse. You almost appear to be afraid of it. There really IS a serious problem when administrators can use terms like "Papist" when they talk to one another and no one says anything. Apparently that is just fine. Apparently it is also just fine when it is brought to your attention on your talk page. If you are going to remain an administrator you ought to have a more professional way of handling things, including recusing yourself from editing topics which arrouse some layers of bigotry within you. Vaquero100 00:46, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh FFS, calm down. It's only a website, you are taking this way too seriously.  Intransigence?  Nonsense.  Like I said, the discussion has been done to death; you are wading in to a long-settled compromise and asserting your particular prejudices.  You appear to believe that only your POV is neutral - read MPOV to see how the community views this kind of thinking.  As I said before, people whyo come to WP to "right great wrongs" tend to be problematic, because when their belief clashes with policy they tend to assume that it is their belief which must prevail.  A look through the Arbcom archives will show you any number of examples.  Just zis Guy you know? 11:13, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Arbitration case will be filed
As you pretend to own anohter user's talk page, abuse your admin power to violate the 3 revert rule in order to push you POV, make derogatory comments, and as I see above not just concerning me and the French, you removed a POV-tag in spite of an obviously ongoing dispute and blocked me in spite of a conflict of interest I file an arbitration case. Socafan 22:19, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
 * If you get round to this, don't forget to post the link so we can comment too. Stephen B Streater 22:30, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It'll be interesting to see how many ArbCom members reject the request. (→ Netscott ) 22:56, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * It will be anti-climactic to see how many reject the request. Admins stick together like stink on shit, and when JzG says "jump," Jimbo says "How high?"


 * Close: it's Jimbo who shouts jump and I ask how high. Which is why I worked so hard to try and keep the Armstrong article from turning into a hatchet job. Just zis Guy you know? 07:42, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


 * My comments are in at Requests_for_arbitration. Feel free to add yours. Just zis Guy you know? 11:07, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Re-incarnation
You might want to quietly 'check' out this reincarnation of an (almost) anagram, I think the editor's  agenda seriously concerns you too(sound familiar?). I see enough edit material to perfectly correlate &. Here he is now          blanking a talk page setting forth his bias & previous uncivil behavior, deleting the (block) tag resulting from his numerical IP address. Other interesting diffsmiracle 1day rfarb, then going down in flames again, wipes the trail at withdrawal; last day scuffling with other admins; I can provide more. He has targeted me in several articles and harps on my topics in false and disparging ways while trying to create new onerous policies. I think a 3rd id is his IP address, I am unsure as to the relation of Hexagon1. His favorite subjects for both named id's: caron & stupidity/IQ; a recurring word is "psychotic". I apologize for the add'l security name, but I am really getting concerned here...--Needza restrayning odor 10:45, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Please email me. Just zis Guy you know? 11:06, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Spell fixes
I just got obsessive compulsive and have to fix 3 minor spelling errors in your statement at RfArb. I hope you don't mind! =D --mboverload @ 11:08, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Not in the least. I have bone-deep burn scars on my left hand dating back to an injury in my early childhood, and I routinely make characteristic typing errors - I'd never be able to successfully run a sock farm ;-)  Anybody is welcome to fix these. Just zis Guy you know? 11:21, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank god, looks like it will be rejected. My RfA failed - guess I won't know what an RfC against me feels like =) =( --mboverload @  12:20, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Wait, that doesn't really make sense, heh. Anyway, thanks for clearing up the sockmaster =D --mboverload @  12:29, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
 * You never know, in time things can change. Just zis Guy you know? 12:33, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
 * =D. I seem to remember you on IRC, do you have a nick there?  We can chat if you want --mboverload @  12:42, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I only use irc for RC and when WP is down. Just zis Guy you know? 12:43, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok, well, nice to "meet" you =D. Laterz. --mboverload @  13:07, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

American International School
Thanks for protecting this article. I was starting to feel like every second edit was a revert there. Kevin 12:12, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Me too man! Thanks so much! --mboverload @  12:14, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Your comment on my talkpage
The comment with the diff you provided on my talkpage, is irrelevant, because I cooled down myself just like ten minutes after that  and you probably knew it. There is no reason to warn me about something I removed, if I already realised my error. Your action doesn't fit the wiktionary nor dictionary definition of warning, because I didn't need to be informed on something I already knew, but it might be seen as bossing, which is an unacceptable thing for anyone here. Please remove the warning yourself. Azmoc 12:20, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * No, I don't know what is going on the other side of your computer screen, I am not psychic :-) is still a personal attack. Just zis Guy you know? 12:43, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I have edited under an IP address for quite some time. However, you should not be questioning my edit count at all. My opinions are as valid as yours even if I didn't contribute to the good thing (wikipedia) as much as you did. Azmoc 12:40, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Like I said, we need ot nkow your history so we can see where you are coming from. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 12:43, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * In what sense is "I find the fact that you think that you are running wikipedia unbelievable?" a personal attack? And like I said, you don't need to know my history at all. Azmoc 12:53, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * At what point did anybody suggest they were runnig Wikipedia? "Us" in this case clearly meant the community, i.e. those editors with a history of contribution to the project. Balance of reply is on WP:ANI. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 13:10, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The real reason why you placed the warning on my talkpage was, that you just didn't like my proposal and were suspicious about the fact that I knew where the village pump is after few edits. You can request checkuser if you still want to know who I am. Stop using warnings in content disputes. Azmoc 14:02, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * ...is the wrong answer. I don't give a flying fuck about your proposal, it has no earthly chance of success. There is no content dispute.  Stop Wikilawyering and accept criticism when you are in the wrong. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 14:44, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I was not wikilawyering, stop spreading your flying fuck around me. You do something that goes against the policies, when somebody says you shouldn't do that you say he's wikilawyering. Azmoc 21:57, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * And the policy which was contravened was?... You got it wrong.  I was perhaps a little harsh with you, but that doesn't change the fact that you got it wrong.  I think we should just let it drop.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 22:09, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Lance Armstrong
Hi. I'm curious why you thought it a good idea to revert Lance Armstrong to your preferred version and immediately protect it - especially since I honestly do not see any BLP issues in the version you reverted. But more to the point, I do not see how a single editor's single edit constitutes grounds for reverting an article and immediately protecting it under ANY grounds. Phil Sandifer 14:07, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not my preferred version, it's simply a version I am comfortable with per WP:BLP. Socafan has repeatedly edit warred over the insertion of content and phrasing whihc implies that Armstrong is guilty of doping, when every test result and an official inquiry say the opposite. I posted it at WP:ANI for review, if others support a different approach they are welcome to propose or implement such.  My sole concern is that Socafan's edits give more credit to the knocking copy than to the fact of his being officially clean (personally I don't believe any pro cyclist is actually clean, but that has no place here either). He also emphasises WADA over the independent review which criticised WADA. WP:NPOV and WP:BLP apply here.  Above all, there has been absolutely no attempt to discuss the detail of content and wording, just the usual "ZOMG ROUGE ADMIN ABUSE" crap, of which I am more than a little tired. As soon as Socafan shows willingness to debate the details of wording, rather than simply edit-warring over it and kicking up a fuss about being prevented from doing so, the problem evaporates. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 14:43, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I think most, though not all of the problems with Socafan's additions are in the quality of his writing, not the content. He's not really adding any material that shouldn't be cited... but he's using odd phrasings and just plain awkward ones. If you look at the edit I made right before your reversion, though, I cleared most (Though not quite all) of them up. Which is another reason why it's very, very bad to protect a page to a preferred version. (Note "Admins must not protect pages they are actively engaged in editing, except in the case of simple vandalism." and "The protection of a page on any particular version is not meant to express support for that version and requests should therefore not be made that the protected version be reverted to a different one." Note also that the protection policy does not support page protection to enforce BLP, and that protecting a page to deal with a user who has recently brought an arbcom case against you is TERRIBLE practice.) Phil Sandifer 15:40, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * You may well be right, I have never been in that position before. If it had been some random article on a Pokémon or some such I would happily have left it at "the wrong version" but recent exchanges on the list have left me with a very strong impression that to do so is simply not acceptable in cases of WP:BLP.  Am I wrong there?  I am astounded that WP:PPOL does not include BLP, since I know of at least three articles which are or have been protected for precisely that, and not flagged as WP:OFFICE (actually my reading of it is that it does cover BLP, but that may well need clarifying in the policy).  Looking back I should have stubbed the section, I think.  That would have been more transparent, yes?   What matters here to my mind is policy, and policy is WP:NPOV especially in cases of biography.  For non-biographic content there is no rush, no deadline, little realistic chance of being sued.  In the case of Armstrong, he had at one point eleven lawsuits going at once.  There is plenty of evidence that he takes this particular issue very seriously indeed.  As always, I am happy to learn from those more experienced.  What would you have done in the face of what you perceive as an editor aggressively pushing potentially defamatory content?  I must have got something wrong here, or the problem would not have escalated as it did. A lot of the active admins are not much more experienced than me, so I'm not overall surprised that WP:ANI did not yield wiser counsel.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 15:58, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, ANI is a mess. I mean, I don't even read it. (Then again, I spend 95% of my time logged out these days, and just log in when I need to speak as a grizzled old fart. Like now.) The thing is, basically, for most purposes, you can act as an administrator in a situation, or as a content editor, but not both. If you're going to edit for content, you can't protect the page. You have to find someone else to do it. In this case, I'd have used WP:RFPP, started an RFC on Socafan (or made a counterclaim in RFAr), and probably pinged someone on IRC to have a look at it, or left a note on another administrator's talk page. Phil Sandifer 16:56, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


 * You're probably right. The disease of immediatism, I guess.  I see a problem, I have a desire to fix it now. I am somewhat jaded about RFCs, at least in respect of providing rapid remedies to problem behaviour, and don't think this has got anywhere close to Arbcom's attention level yet. Ah well. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 16:59, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes
Pretty sure... it likely doesn't matter... I believe the previous name's been abandoned. (→ Netscott ) 14:16, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

How long must the articles be? xaozon 15:09, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Comments re: Userfication of essays
Hi, Guy,

Thank you for your comments at the noticeboard.

I think my major concern is that the essay category in Wikipedia project-space is becoming a backdoor method of instruction creep, without having to build consensus or go through any sort of community review. As you point out, the threshhold for inclusion is pretty low, even though the Wikipedia-space help page notes that, "The project namespace generally consists of polished pages."

This has been a "new" issue that appears to have organically grown in the last six-seven months; and so, no policy or discussion (as far as I've come across) has been put towards it on Wikipedia. Your essay WP:HOLE which you referenced in your comments, likewise dates to February of this year. As noted at the Meta category for essays, "As of 2006, there is some disagreement about whether new essays, particularly personal essays, should be added to Meta anywhere but in user space."

Already the Category:Wikipedia_essays has generated over 200 essays, most of which are in user-space, but an increasing number are moved or created in Wikipedia-space-- including many which either make little sense, or attempt to be policy directives hidden in the guise of essays. To start alphabetically:
 * Alternative_name (created 10 July, 2006 as an article, moved to project-space by Uncle G), which makes the bizarre claim, "An englishman from southern England may refer to London with a diferent name than an englishman from northern England."
 * Amnesia_test, (created 21 June, 2006 by Samuel Blanning) which proposes that before writing an article, editors should "Forget everything you know about the subject."
 * Adminitis, (created 10 February, 2006 by Kim Bruning)
 * Assume the assumption of good faith, (created 30 March, 2006 by Brian0918), which was initially claimed to be a guideline.
 * Avoid using WikiProject talk page templates (created 23 June, 2006 by SPUI) as a proposed guideline, then converted into an essay.

And that's just the "A"s.

While your own essays are very clever and humourous, such as Beware_of_the_tigers (created in December), are they necessary clarification, or do they just create a new Wikipedia-space page that can be cited as a shorthand in discussions-- like the other newer animal-themed essays and No_angry_mastodons (2 Feb 2006) Don't be an ostrich (13 July, 2006)?


 * You raise an interesting point. I would say that MfD should consider each one on its merits.  If several essays address a common theme, perhaps they should be merged.  If an essay gives an easily understood prose description of a common problem or situation (e.g. WP:NFT) then I think it would make very good sense to keep it.  I haven't thought very depely about this myself other than to note that some are very definitely attempts to retrospectively legislate in arguments where people have been on the losing side, often with the deliberate intent of subverting or evading existing guidelines (e.g. WP:NNOT).  I guess CREEP counsels against more guidelines - proposed guidelines seem to arrive at the rate of one a week or quicker.  So: I don't know :-D  But I do know that one of those I looked at did seem to have at least some utility.
 * Perhaps we should organise them into a menu like WP:TPL, and maybe you're right there does need to be some kind of bar. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 15:21, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


 * There's definitely utility in many of the essays; I certainly wouldn't claim they don't have useful points to make. However, should these count more than everyday comments people post on various discussion pages? Effectively, we have a sort of "rule inflation": even as guidelines are increasingly viewed as policy, non-consensus essays are given a "sheen of legitimacy" by virtue of being in Wikipedia-space and having an abbreviated WP: shortcut-- and thus are being treated (and cited on talk pages) as if they are guidelines. I would have no problem with the "good" ones being upgraded to proper guideline status, given appropriate community review. However, surviving an MfD might be seen as a further legitimisation; an essay that is "kept" would in effect, have de facto consensus approval to be a guideline, in a sort of round-about way. Recall the ongoing Great Userbox debate: given opportunity and no policy against it, some Wikipedians will turn innocuous "features" (like being able to write essays, or to create userboxes) into a means to promote a particular viewpoint.


 * In my view, the category of "essay" is currently too open for misuse, when placed on Wikipedia-space. I might suggest that essays which are not being sought as proposed guidelines be either userfied or moved to Meta. Essays on WP-space which might become guidelines, should be changed to "proposed" status and thus gain approval or rejection. The problem is there are dozens upon dozens to go through, and rarely do they get brought up for deletion-- except when they are seen as being venues for personal attack. In any event, the quantity of pseudo-namespace redirecting to personal essays should be pruned back-- it reminds me of .COM registration, with people vying to get "cool" domain names for their personal pages. --<font face="Verdana,San-Serif" size="-2"> LeflymanTalk 16:29, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Cliff Notes
What do you think of this? Special:Contributions/WileyPublishing. Looks like publisher adding a link to the Cliff Notes for all the classic works of fiction. Not sure about the rules, but seems wrong. Fan-1967 15:27, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Tricky. This looks like the entire Cliff Notes online free, which is a boon for students of the subject, but as you say a problem for spamwatchers.  Since it is to the content, not to a sales blurb and off-the-page sales pitch I'd be inclined to allow it.  But I'd need to lok at more than a couple to assess whether this is really full content or just enough to suck you in and sell. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 15:30, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Of course, I wish I'd had these available when I was in school. I had to actually buy the Cliff Notes, or actually read the book. Fan-1967 15:58, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Damn, that's harsh :o) "Once more into the breach, dear friends, or close the wall up with out English dead..." Fammit, I can almost hear Olivier saying it. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 16:14, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Had to watch out for trying to use the movies. I think Olivier's Hamlet left Rosenkrantz and Guildenstern on the cutting-room floor. Kind of lost a bit. On the other hand, we did have the Classics Illustrated comics way back when, but they were awfully abridged, too. Fan-1967 16:18, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * But.... Rosencrantz And Guildenstern Are Dead! :o) I'm off to get on my recumbent bicycle for a nice ride in the sun.  Later. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 16:20, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks like he's been blocked. -- Fan-1967 16:21, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I have posted an opening for a discussion at Village pump (policy). -- Fan-1967 20:30, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Apology
Hi there, thank you very much, I had not expected that. I am impressed, honestly. Can we start discussing at the article talk pages now? Socafan 16:05, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm already there. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 16:12, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I am afraid your recent biased edits leave some doubt for me to believe in an honest apology:   . Socafan 16:43, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * You are such a bad, bad rouge admin. :-) (→ Netscott ) 17:53, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


 * First, I apologised for being obnoxious to you. I am completely sincere in that.  The fact that I stongly dispute the tone of your edits surrounding the doping allegations against Armstrong is completely separate.  I think part of your problem here might be a failure to separate issues fomr personalities.  It is perfectly possible to disagree and still remain civil.  It is not, however, permissible to editorialise and insinuate guilt where none is proven.  To take content which has been rejected in some form in one article and insert it into another in the same form is not permitted.  It is called a POV fork.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 18:20, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Andrew Homer
So, you left the Astrology page when the getting was good. The BS continues. I wonder if you might look at the above user and his talk attacks. Some examples:. Basically, he just pops up on talk every once in a while to name call. He was blocked a month ago and replied as follows. Sorry to bother. The page has been an absolute drain on my Wiki-time. Marskell 16:09, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Clue-by-four wielded. POV warriors we don't need. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 16:20, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that. It's obviously not going to affect his behaviour, unfortunately. Marskell 19:37, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Judging by his email to me, no. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 15:34, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Gregory Lauder-Frost
I'm sorry about the delays regarding this article. I will check on the status shortly; I've just returned from holidays so am not aware of the status. - Amgine 17:04, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Appreciated, thanks. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 18:21, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not able to communicate with Brad, who is out of office on a support-raising trip. I'll be following up as soon as I am able. - Amgine 00:12, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Xenphobic comments
I'm very concerned about the xenophobic comment you made on the "Lance Amstrong" talk page. I don't think Wikipedia admin shall behave this way. As for now, I'll watch your edits, just to be sure it was an incident.JeDi 19:13, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * This has already been addressed. The intent was to point out the very high levels of ill-feeling the Americans had engendered in the French at the time, and the corresponding likelihood of UCI letting Lance Armstrong, of all cyclists, get off a doping charge.  It is an absurd idea.  Ullrich and Basso have both been suspended this year, UCI have in the past pulled entire teams.  There is no plausible basis for believing they would allow Armstrong to get away with it. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 19:19, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I concur with JzG's explanation. You read it wrong. --mboverload @  19:23, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Stefan
User:Bikeable found a copy of that book in the library where he studies. You can read what he has to say on my talk page but the core is that the book is about the Holy Roman Empire, and has nothing about Schwarzenbergs in any century. Our desperate housewife is the kid and was lying though his teeth as usual. Fan-1967 00:31, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Not unexpected. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 13:28, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

ACIM
I saw your note on the ACIM page. This are so many subjects of interest to groups of people in the world that do not fall in the realm of academic.

As far I am concerned, what was a good article (with good referencing considering the material) has been destroyed. I believe that particular user has driven the original author away from WP. The person that was trying to help appears to have left. As far as I know I was the last person familiar with the subject. If it is the policy of WP to let "editors" who have no knowledge of a subject destroy the work of others then I have no desire to have much interaction with WP any longer.--Who123 14:50, 19 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I disagree about the original quality of the article - it read as a homily or dissertation. Pretty much all the referencing was to the book itself, which made the whole article original research.  If there are no secondary sources, then we can't have an article, certainly not one of any substance, per WP:V.  It really is that simple.  Yes, it's a problem.  But we can't simply ignore it.  It would be better to work with Ste4k and address her (valid) concerns rather than simply complain that, in essence, because we can't have certain content per policy then we should ignore policy.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 15:45, 19 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I see what you are saying but how does it differ from this article? Rainbow_Gathering --<font color="#008080" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Who <font color="#9400D3" face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"> 123   20:48, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Simple: I'm interested in ACIM :-) There are many carp articles.  Hopefully, one by one, they attract the attention of people motivated to fix them.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 21:08, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Re: Warning
I take it that you have deleted without discussion the Category:Junk science road safety which I created earlier, given that you have 'reverted' the three (Road-rule enforcement camera, Speed limit and Speed bump) articles which I had added to that category before it disappeared, and that you left an unexplained 'warning' on my talk page. All of those articles (and others which I was about to add to it) rely on junk science for one side of the debate or the other. Can you please explain your apparently rather draconian reaction, and explain why you do not want to see road safety articles which are linked by a common theme of controversy related to the use, interpretation and appropriateness of research, related through a common category reflecting that link. -De Facto 15:08, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Correct. The road safety articles already are linked by a common theme of controversy, it's Category:Road safety.  As was clear in the deletion debate for the previous category, there is pretty much nothing in road safety which is without at least some element of controversy - but equally there are few if any road safety interventions which are without at least some arguable merit.  Replacing the deleted category with something even more POV is pointless and absurd.  The smart move would be to write an encyclopaedic article on controversies in road safety, as suggested in the CFD debate.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 15:18, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * You'd allow me to write Controversies in road safety, even though it uses the 'c' word - but would I be able to list the articles that were in the deleted category in it. There is, to me at least, a subtle difference between the generic kind of controversy inherent in most, if not all road safety measures that you allude to, and the so-called 'junk science' supported/opposed measures, or those supported/opposed by research subject to much legitimate scientific scepticism.  Those few articles of the latter types are the items that I wish to group together in a category so that other interested readers can find them in one place without the need to trawl through the lists of innocuous Category:Road safety items. -De Facto 17:11, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * DeFacto, as a largely disinterested observer, I must say the above is scarcely coherent. Your attempts at persuasion might be more effective were you to take a bit of time to think through your points and present them cogently. Try to see the following sentence (if we must call it that) as though you hadn't written it: There is, to me at least, a subtle difference between the generic kind of controversy inherent in most, if not all road safety measures that you allude to, and the so-called junk science supported/opposed measures, or those supported/opposed by research subject to much legitimate scientific scepticism. Now read it again; I'll be back with a handmade sandwich before you're done. Five commas. Two slashes. You've given your reader an urgent case of lexical indigestion by the time he's got to "subtle"! Scheinwerfermann 18:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The answer is obviously that yes, you could write an appropriately neutral and balanced article on controversies in road safety because - as I've pointed out more than once - I can't think of a single area of road safety that is entirely free from controversy. A category is meaningless for that reason, and an article can detail the areas of controversy.  For example, I can't foresee much controversy about the idea that parking on a busy through-route during peak periods is selfish and antisocial, but clamping someone for parking on a road with no traffic on a Sunday might well be controversial.  In my view the majority of controversy stems from details of enforcement.  Similarly, you can't call the science which underpins speed limits junk science - that's a label I'd have to reserve for the likes of Paul Smith - but there is some questionable use of statistics and some evidence of fallacious arguments in those who argue for enforcement in some circumstances.
 * Just for the sake of argument, let's take a short trip through Category:Road Safety:
 * 5 M factors - motorist centred.
 * AA Motoring Trust - motorist centred
 * Accident blackspot - accident migration, regression to the mean
 * Accident migration - risk compensation theory
 * Association of British Drivers - "selfish bastards" wasn't it?
 * Centre for Automotive Safety Research - car headbands, risk compensation
 * Construction site safety - controversy over which is the source of risk
 * Crash attenuator - risk compensation theory, pedestrians are not fitted with them
 * Cycling Proficiency Test - obsolete playground-based training, superseded by National Standards
 * Driving simulator - no substitute for the real thing
 * Fatality Analysis Reporting System - supposed massive under-reporting of injuries
 * Fitch Barrier - risk compensation again
 * John Fitch (driver) - and again
 * Jaywalking - why blame the pedestrian? They use the roads by right, motorists only under license
 * Killed or Seriously Injured - inaccurate but widely used due to larger numbers than (more accurate) fatalities
 * By which time I lost interest. I can see areas of controversy attached to every item in that category, and actually the only real differentiator is the degree of controversy.  Incidentally, I'm somewhat surprised you chose not to place ABD in there since they are undoubtedly highly controversial.
 * The whole subject is controversial, there is not even universal agreement over what constititutes safety (safety for whom? from whom?). Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 20:53, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Victor Niederhoffer
Hi, This article is in need of a bit of NPOV'ing I feel. I don't want to get into a revert war over it - any suggestions appreciated. Dl yo ns 493  Ta lk   19:20, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * That article reads like an advertisement! I think the first step is to get some profiles from mainstream magazines, if any are available.  I'm out of my depth here because I know nothing of that world (even though I work for a company active in the financial markets).  I'd also try to find out how the returns his trading made compare with other similar figures.  Was he one of Soros' top traders or somewhere in the middle? Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 20:36, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Removing external links from AfD pages
I've reverted your "delinking" of Articles for deletion/Israel News Agency (3rd nomination) and Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Israel News Agency (3rd nomination). We now have rel=nofollow enabled on pages outside the main namespace, so those links won't contribute to search engine rankings. Thus there is no point in not making them real links. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 12:08, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. I will continue to unlink offsite copyvios, I think. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 12:09, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Your signature
Second time I've chanced across your name on something - good to get a sense of Wikipedians overlapping, but you really ought to cut down that HTML in your sig. Unless you've written it to look great in a specific browser that I'm unfamiliar with, the following alternative cuts 18 characters off of it:-


 * Just zis &lt;b style="border:1px;padding:2px;color:#fff;background:#008;"&gt;Guy&lt;/b&gt; you know?

Although to be honest it does seem a bit jarring and unprofessional to have a big blue word in a signature; I was expecting an excited new Wikipedia user rather than an admin, when I hit your userpage. But I guess it's your call. --McGeddon 13:28, 23 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The reason for it is so I can easily spot my sig in long conversations. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 15:29, 23 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, just so you know that it breaks up the flow for everyone who isn't you, and makes editing slightly disorientating when the sig takes up a full two lines of source (which the abbreviated HTML would at least cut down, if you feel like using it). Wikipedia's signature guidelines have a few thoughts on this sort of thing, if you've not seen them. --McGeddon 15:58, 23 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Seen them, enforced them. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 17:23, 23 July 2006 (UTC)


 * My unsolicited vote: It creates no real problem for anyone. There are things worth griping about; this isn't on the list. Scheinwerfermann 18:18, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Just zis <b style="border:1px;padding:2px;color:#fff;background:#008;">Guy</b> you know? <-- Any difference? I like the JzG sig myself... but with my own sig I suppose I'm a bit biased. :-) (→ Netscott ) 04:27, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Redirects for British style
For british locations like here, would it be a good/bad idea to create British-location style redirects (i.e. "Somewhere (Shire)" redirects to "Somewhere, Shire")? The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 15:29, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Probably not, unless people are asking or it's a common alias. I live in Reading, Berkshire not Reading (Berkshire), but I do know that St. Albans (Herts) was common usage A Long Time Ago, not sure if it still is.  Er.... dunno :-) Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 20:07, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * OK....I just remember seeing a user somewhere who used commonwealth english all angry about the comma construction...they made a big deal about the parentheses style, but I guess it isn't all they made it out to be ;) The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 21:55, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

In case you miss this reply in the noise
I opposed the Sean Black RfA. I have never had any contact with Sean as an admin, certainly no negative experiences. But on doing research he failed to meet the qualities that I would like to see in an admin. This was not an oppose vote based on malice. I would like to think it was quite objective. Last time I checked people can oppose for any reason they like, although weight will only be given to reasonable rationales. I think that creating a list of those that oppose, for who knows what reason, is well beyond the bounds of acceptable behaviour in this community. That does not extend any level of good faith to those that decide to oppose an RfA. So those that question us for asking the role of such a list, with the argument "you need to assume good faith", are totally hypocritical (i don't think you have made this argument but many admins have.) Below is your original comment with my reply. Thanks for taking time to see this from a different perspective. David D. (Talk) 00:03, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Sean was a good admin before, nobody produced any credible evidence that he had abused admin tools, he requested desysopping, resysopping should be a formality. I don't think we should even have had a vote, since there was no reason to desysop him other than his own request.  To my reading (based on a quick survey) a number of the Oppose votes were sour grapes from people against whom he'd taken (well-founded) actions.  This might be a sampling error, of course. Anyway, User:Danny made a fair case I thought. I invoke the No Big Deal clause, myself. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 20:30, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Guy, you wrote "nobody produced any credible evidence that he had abused admin tools". My oppose vote was not based on his use or misuse of the tools.  My oppose opinion was based on the fact that he seems to bite people in the process of using the tools. If someone had made any effort to defend my olppose on this basis I may well of reconsidered my vote.  Instead there was quite an ad hom campaign against those that had expressed this opinion.  Such comments are not reallly the best way to try and change someones opinion. On top of that my opinon was further cemented when Sean wrote:
 * "I don't. I compose edit summaries to inform whomever may read them what the edit I'm making is. They sometimes express frustration, because I am sometimes frustrated. They sometimes express humour and good cheer, because I am sometimes happy. They sometimes express apathy, because I am sometimes apathetic. They sometimes express rudeness, because I am sometimes rude. They are sometimes blunt, because I am sometimes blunt. They always express humanity, because I am always human. I see no reason to pretend that I have no emotions under the guise of being "civil"; if my emotions are extreme to the point that I will do something I will regret, then I cease editing."
 * I would be more comforted to see him stop editing before he becomes rude, as well as before his emotions become extreme. I look for admins that can stay cool in stressful situations, count to ten before writing the edit summary or recuse themselves from the situation. He may be human but i'd rather not see the worst traits of humanity being expressed from the wikipedia admins. Everyone is always talking about community but how can we have a community if people express all their negitivity when people disagree. An admin should be able to reason with those that diagree.  I have no problem with admins being firm but i want to seem some sensible rationale too.
 * Finally he ignored the very valid question from El C with regard to the B list; El C asked:
 * "I notice that the contents of User:Kelly Martin/B (Deleted revision as of 3 July 2006) features the following [list of people]. Then, the next edit by Sean Black features the following addition: My question, then, is what was meant by that addition, and if you have time, maybe a hint as to the purpose behind the entire thingy."
 * Why wouldn't he answer such a question if the list was a joke or something trivial. This kind of backroom chatter and list making has no apparent purpose for the benefit of the encylopedia. What ever happened to AGF? It is quoted ad naseum at those that question the existence of the list. So where is the good faith of those editors that created the list in the first place? Seriously, a list of those that oppose you in an RfA.  What good could possibly come from such a list?  ElC deserved an answer to this question.
 * So, overall, my oppose that start off as quite weak grew stronger and stronger. I am now sure i made the right choice. David D. (Talk) 23:42, 23 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Anyone has the right to oppose (or indeed support) a candidate for any good reason, and that good reason doesn't have to seem like a good reason to anyone else but themselves. But I stand by my comments: he was a good admin before, I see no reason to doubt he'll be a good admin again.  Since he voluntarily gave up the sysop bit I think its reapplicaiton should be a formality, absent any evidence that he abused his status before. This is supposed to be no big deal.  This is in any case well within the range of closing 'crat's discretion.  If you find Sean abusing his admin status there will be plenty of people in line to join the lynch-mob :-)  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:00, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Missed this earlier. I may have confused you with this original message.  I was not soliciting you to change your opinion, or even justify your opinion.  Only for you to see that not all the oppose votes were due to negative interactions with Sean and certainly not due to malice. This seemed to be an underlying suspicion throughout the RfA. As far as the closing of the RfA, i had no problem with the closing 'crats discretion. I agree that the bar should not be as high for returning admins. David D. (Talk) 10:03, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh sure. I looked through some, and they did seem to be, but I'd never accuse you of that and I apologise if you saw it as such.  I think I stated that it was a very cursory review, and thinking about it I probably concentrated on the names I didn't know from other debates, which would bias the result towards the sour-grapes types. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 10:05, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Sydney Heritage Fleet
Hey JzG, sorry to bother you but would you mind taking another look at the above article? I don't understand how it isn't a copyright violation. It seems to me that a couple of words have been removed and the sentences reversed but it's basically the same text. The second paragraph of the Wiki text is nearly word-for-word:

Wiki text:
 * Lady Hopetoun and Port Jackson Marine Steam Museum, the forerunner of the Sydney Heritage Fleet, was founded in 1965 by a public-spirited individuals to preserve Sydney’s steam yacht "Lady Hopetoun". The organisation later changed it's name to the Sydney Maritime Museum. In 1998 the museum adopted the trading name Sydney Heritage Fleet, which remains the name today

Aust Heritage Fleet text:
 * The Lady Hopetoun and Port Jackson Marine Steam Museum, the forerunner of the Sydney Heritage Fleet, was founded in 1965 by a group of public-spirited individuals to preserve Sydney’s 1902 VIP steam yacht Lady Hopetoun. The organisation later became known as the Sydney Maritime Museum Limited. In 1998 the museum adopted the trading name Sydney Heritage Fleet. The Fleet now comprises 10 historical vessels which is amongst the largest such collection in Australia.

Cheers, Sarah Ewart (Talk) 13:04, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It's a rewording (albeit minor) of a very small subset of the web page, which may therefore be fair use, and the subject is unquestionably encyclopaedic; I say give them the benefit of the doubt and ask the author to clean it up. Or tag it again and see if another admin will bite, I don't claim to be an expert,. just doing my best. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 13:07, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I know you're doing your best, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I just don't understand. And FWIW, the person who posted that article has posted multiple copyvios despite warnings. Thanks anyway, I appreciate your help. Sarah Ewart (Talk) 13:14, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


 * No implication implied :-) Looking at it, yes, they are of differing degrees of blatant. I think I might just rouge it up a bit after all. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 13:19, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

reply
thanks for your message above. i saw kelly gave a reasoned response to the list. Apparently research for an upcoming talk. That sounds reasonable. Now step away from the computer and "get on yer bike". You obviously spend far too much time here according to the charity message above. ;) David D. (Talk) 22:10, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I rode both ways to work yesterday and rode in this morning - it's 25 miles each way. Willthat do? ;-) Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:39, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Grr...
You closed out the Warders guild AfD just as I was about to make a brilliant point (well, I thought it was brilliant). :) --DarkAudit 13:21, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * You owe it to the world to let us know what that brilliant point was! Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 13:25, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Even the most notable of gaming guilds/clans, Panda Attack and Djork, don't have articles on them, and probably never will. :) --DarkAudit 14:33, 25 July 2006 (UTC)



Nourhaghighi by User:Nourhaghighi
I don't know if you remember Articles for deletion/Nourhaghighi. If so, you'll really love the second round, Articles for deletion/Nourhaghighi (2 nomination). -- Fan-1967 03:07, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I tagged this last night before I went to bed, and didn't have time then to review other contribs. Amazing. I'm at a loss for words. Nice cleanup effort by you, Kinu and Mak. Fan-1967 14:41, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Zazz
Mate, There are two sources and none of them is a press release, Where did people get that from? Feedyourfeet 05:34, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Apart fomr the one which is a press release, obviously :-) Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:31, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Earl of Berkhamsted
Hi, if you remember I added the speedy deletion-tag on this article. You have removed it because the notation was right anyway. It isn't. I had created the page and the redirect, but it I forgot a "P". It should be Earl of Berkham"P"sted, an article which I had noticed later exists already. So my creation is wrong written and unused, both things together a good reason to delete it. Greetings Phoe 07:30, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Berkhampstead is an archaic spelling of Berkhamstead and is a redirect, so if it is formally a mis-spelling it's a likely one. Redirects are cheap :-) Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:30, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, you've got right, one redirect more won't crush wikipedia's server. Maybe my actual mistake will avoid unsuccessfull searches by other users. Thanks for your explanation. Good day, week, year ... life :-) Phoe 09:10, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

WikiWoo
I was wondering if you could help me with one of the countless problems I’m having with WikiWoo. He’s was messing around with List of Ontario census divisions (although I admit it was because I redirected one of his garbage pages to it), adding every single tier municipality in Ontario to the list, even though the page is about census divisions, which don’t necessarily correspond, so to fix the trouble I created List of Ontario municipalities (a page I agree may be far too crowded). On the page I separated single and dual tier municipalities and then subdivided these into type in order to make things at least somewhat manageable. I have explained to WikiWoo more than once, through edit summaries and his talk page, that no information he is attempting to convey is lost in this arrangement. He is ignoring this, however, and pasting the entire list of single tier municipalities, in an unwikified an unorganized format, into the article, claiming that I am censoring him. Now I realize, as you’ll see by reading his talk page, that I am interacting with him very harshly. But the number of ridiculous things he’s done, and the claims of conspiracy and vandalism he’s lobbed at me are really getting to be too much. I really think he needs an administrator to set him straight on some things. <b style="color:black;">Oz</b> Lawyer  20:08, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I am wondering if this is a case of loose tigers or a loose screw. Hard to tell right now; God alone knows what he's trying to do and why. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 20:22, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, he's attepting to show that the Regional governmental structure in Ontario is "bad." In particular, he's dealing with articles related to Peel Region, inserting anything he possibly can to try to denegrate the region.  I and a couple other people have been having a lot of trouble with him on Susan Fennell (although he seems to have moved on to something else for today at least).  Thanks a lot for your help, and I apologise in advance if I end up coming back to you again and again over him. =( <b style="color:black;">Oz</b> Lawyer  20:26, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Guy Chapman (film)
... any relation? (may be red-linked by the time you read this; you'll have to peek behind the curtain.) JDoorj a m    Talk 02:39, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * No. I think this is the same man as does the video games, though.  There is also a New Zealand lawyer and a famous historian by the same name.  Common as muck... Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 10:12, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Axis of medieval
Please re-visit the discussion. Uncle G 09:51, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Don, thanks. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 10:01, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Your comments regarding my filing for arbitration
In your comments on my filing for arbitration which you made earlier here. You mentioned "personalise everything, for reasons I am at a loss to understand". You might find those reasons stated on my talk page in comments here, in a discussion with Will Beback concerning another matter entirely. Please feel free to contact me in that regard on my talk page. Thanks. Ste4k 20:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * No, I really don't understand what motivates you to take things personally even when people say they are not personal. Honestly. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 20:43, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Best Products
Why the revert? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Best_Products&diff=66406276&oldid=66404240 My input was based on knowledge of SITE's work, which I have researched thoroughly.
 * It can go in the SITE article. Sorry, I should have got round to posting at your Talk but I got sidetracked. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 21:31, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I see what you're saying. However I do feel that the caption of the showroom/store photo should be changed, as typical Best Products showrooms were simple big-box buildings, not the high-concept works that SITE created.  That particular photo is of a 1979 piece that incorporated water walls and a greenhouse of sorts within the facade.  Definitely atypical.
 * Fair comment. You could make that point (succinctly) in the image caption, perhaps? Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 21:45, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Removal of warning on Geogre's page
I appreciate your frustration stated at AN/I towards those of us who would like to include school articles in the project. I also respect Geogre's (and others') right to disagree with those of us who feel that school articles are worthwhile. Nonetheless, it doesn't change the fact that in the course of a discussion/argument, it is a personal attack to say "I'm not interested in playing games with the feeble" as it obviously refers to some participants in the said discussion. Even with the contradictory defense that he didn't intend it towards anyone specifically, expect that it was intended towards someone else further down the page, it is at the very, very least uncivil. You know as well as I do that people have been reprimanded for similar personal attacks. It doesn't matter that he is a admin or that you are an admin - this sort of condescending personal attack on other editors isn't acceptable (as I've learned from my own past experience). To then remove the warning from his page as "trolling" is offensive in the extreme, and arguably a violation of WP:VAND. I have a legitimate issue with him name-calling other editors as "feeble" in the course of an AfD discussion. This has nothing whatever to do with the fact that he holds a different position, I have pointed out that other "inclusionists" have behaved in an uncivil manner on recent AfDs. I also feel it inappropriate to use the patina of adminship to somehow justify his personally attacking other editors by calling them "feeble". I implore you to consider objectively whether or not, in the course of an AfD discussion, referring to other editors as "feeble" is appropriate, especially from an editor with such a long-standing history as Geogre.--Nicodemus75 23:25, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The two of you are never going to agree and there's no sense stoking the argument. Neither of you is going to benefit by fighting, both of you are long-term good faith contributors.  Walk away, it is just not worth the trouble.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 09:12, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Tell me I'm not crazy
Can you take a look at Articles for deletion/John Corvino? Interested in an outside comment. It has links to two other AFDs and three other articles (two deleted, but still in Google cache). Looks to me like we keep debating the same article. Fan-1967 03:53, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I deleted the repost and closed it. Let me know if you see it pop up again. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 09:11, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

John Corvino
Is it your contention that "generic associate professor"s speak to over 100 university campuses ? Wjhonson 17:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Not uncommon. Lecture tours and all. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 22:55, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

That cat
Stop adding the stupid cat thing to articles. It's complete bollocks and please do believe that the number of people outside YTMND who care about YTMND fads is between none at all and even less than that. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 19:41, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, who would've thought an image from a long running YTMND fad would belong on the YTMND article in the fad and meme section? --NEMT 19:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * See WP:OR and keep it out of the article. Thanks 24.167.68.211 19:49, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the insight, anonymous RoadRunner user. --NEMT 20:02, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Strange thosugh this may seem - and I know it will come as an enormous shock to some people - YTMND fads not only fall below the level generally considered globally significant, but are actually negligible as far as pretty much everybody outside YTMND is concerned. As you know, NEMT, you added that cat bullshit to more than just the YTMND article.  I deleted Happy Cat as a repost. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 20:08, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Examples? The only place I put the image was on the YTMND article in the specific fad section. I don't want to call you a liar and a policy violator, or even an incompetent admin, but hey. --NEMT 20:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * "The lifespan of this breed is 10 to 15 years unless exposed to doom music" in British Shorthair? It's not an image, but it's definitely "that cat bullshit," and fucking around with Wikipedia.  &middot; rodii &middot;  20:51, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * You're right rodii, it's not an image. --NEMT 21:01, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * ...  &middot; rodii &middot;  21:14, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Apparently in NEMTworld "thing" and "image" are synonymous. A limited vocabulary indeed. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:28, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * WP:NPA, do I have to put you up on request for intervention? --NEMT 01:18, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * You're welcome to try. Or you could recognise that what you were doing was vandalism and simply drop it.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:27, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Schools/Arguments
Can you hop over to Wikipedia talk:Schools/Arguments? Rob is persisting with this vandalism nonsense, to the point where he's edit warring with popups. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 20:04, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

JzG: I appreciate that you're trying to be "fair" as you perceive it. However, we all know that if I were to go over to WP:BEEFSTEW, redirect it to WP:SCHOOL, then after that action was reversed, open an MfD on it, then when the consensus was developing on that MFD to retain the contents of the page (what else is there to retain, I might ask?) was clearly forming, to go ahead and REPEATEDLY blank the contents while the MfD is still pending I would earn myself a block faster than you can spell B-E-E-F-S-T-E-W. I understand that "admins stick together" around here and all that, but the fact is that AMIB is acting unilaterally and in opposition to the clear consensus developing at the MfD in question. I find it troubling that the only thing you seem to be able to say is: "Come back in 24h". You know quite well that any regular editor would not be able to get away with this clearly disruptive behavior. Irrespective of all other considerations, blatantly blanking a page while it is under consideration for MfD is vandalism, plain and simple. It is no wonder that so many users on wikipedia today complain that the collegiality of admins has become a pernicious cloak for their bad behavior.--Nicodemus75 22:28, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Nicodemus, the obduracy of you and a small group of others has stymied any attempt to come to a compromise, and you have effectively implemented a rule which goes entirely against long-standing policy and guidelines - in no other area would stub articles which are simply a restatement of te article title be tolerated, let alone tenaciously defended at AfD by reference to an essay which failed to achieve consensus for adoption as a guideline. It takes a great deal of work to wind up A Man In Black, but you have succeeded.  With luck things will calm down, but this wil not happen as long as you continue pouring petrol on the flames.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 07:23, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Tallest structures in Paris
Hi, I'm having problems with that List of tallest structures in Paris again. This article was incorrectly named, as 70% of all it contains is not in the city of Paris, so I moved it to List of tallest structures in the Paris region. It's been moved back twice by two contributors who are of course unable and seemingly unwilling to provide any valid reference or argument to maintain their case. Basically what this amounts to is a couple of what seems to be suburban kids (amazingly similar in opinion and editing habits and article contributions) using Wiki to make it look like they live in the Big City - that Paris isn't. I've provided on the article talk page sources proving inaccuracy and links to Wiki naming conventions outlining what should be the correct name, but in spite of this all propositions go unanswered and any attempt at correction is reverted. This is a situation beyond pigheaded, and I'm even being dogged by one of the above contributors - you will no doubt get an answer to this below. I hope I'm wrong.

If you see the reason in the above and in the article talk page, would it be possible to move the article from its present space to List of tallest structures in the Paris region once again?

Sorry again for all the trouble. T HE P ROMENADER 13:11, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

PS: for a clear picture of what I'm talking about, you can have a look at this map. Cheers. T HE P ROMENADER 13:21, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * See the Talk page. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 13:27, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the input - left you an answer.  T HE P ROMENADER  13:43, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Silly me - I should have gone about it the official way from the start. I've just filed a WP:RM. Thanks and cheers.  T HE P ROMENADER  15:42, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure if you've been following, but since your intervention the teapot turned tempest. The London vs. Greater London example you cited earlier was dot-on for London, as both are both commonly and even officially called "London", but the only region comparable to Greater London in the Paris area is called the Île-de-France, not Paris. The "Paris metropolitan area" term (a term never used here, btw) describes an area even bigger. The simple fact of this is verifiable most everywhere. (looking up and down) You seem to have more than your share of things to worry about though - just consider this an update. Hopefully things won't get out of hand again. T HE P ROMENADER 16:44, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

BLP Clarification
On your Deletion Review vote on Jim Shapiro, you mentioned that you thought WP:BLP be clarified. I'm curious as to what you mean by that. I agree with your vote on this deleted article. How could the BLP be better clarified? Thanks.jawesq 14:09, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The AfD was blanked, I believe. I have started a discussion on whether it is necessary to explicitly include project space in WP:BLP, specifically the nuke-on-soght policy for unsourced negative comments, since at present it could be read as excluded.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 14:15, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

WikiWoo yet again
WikiWoo has now recreated the deleted Articles for deletion/The Unique Regional Government Structure in Ontario, this time named Regional Government Structure in Ontario. <b style="color:black;">Oz</b> Lawyer  15:20, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Hammertime. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 15:55, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

The Scourge of Solihull
I realise you may be busy, but could you have a look at the article at Andrew Howlett? - I've stuck a db-hoax on it, but given the amount of effort that has gone into it I doubt it will go without a fight, and I am unusually busy for the next few weeks.

Many thanks in advance for any help you can offer. Aquilina 17:39, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Nuked per WP:BLP and the snowball clause (obvious hoax, the picture was Kenneth Williams) Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 17:53, 31 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Many thanks for your rapid mopping! Aquilina 18:34, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Vandalizm and Lies by You
I am about to start an arbitration proceeding against you because of your vandalism and lies.

User:JzG has lied about me. He wrote: "User:Sam Sloan recently poosted on Usenet that he has re-created every chess player article of his which has been deleted." There is not much here to establish the importance of the subject. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 12:52, 19 July 2006 (UTC) Articles_for_deletion/Geoffrey_Borg

This is an outrageous lie. I have never made and such statement on usenet or anywhere else.

Administrators who lie should be blocked and removed from Wikipedia. I demand that this be done.

Because of these lies by Louis Blair and User:JzG about five good articles have been deleted from Wikipedia and even "salted the earth". Another 30 or more articles have been vandalized by User:JzG. For Example, Geoffrey_Borg is Vice-President of the World Chess Federation, an organization of 159 member nations and thus is clearly a notable person within the standards of Wikipedia. Ali_Nihat_Yazici is President of the Turkish Chess Federation, an organization of 125,000 members and is the subject of an article in the current issue of ChessBase Magazine and thus is clearly a notable person. Both artocles were deleted by User:JzG

The vandalism by User:JzG of these obviously notable persons plus his lie about me is more than suffieient ground to get User:JzG kicked out of Wikipedia.

I have just been elected to the Executive Board of the United States Chess Federation and you can expect to receive a strongly worded letter soon if this miscxonduct is not corrected. Sam Sloan 09:02, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Pick better examples. Here's your admission on Usenet to the action you deny above:, and from the deletion log for Geoffrey Borg
 * 10:48, July 27, 2006 User:Proto (talk • contribs) deleted "Geoffrey Borg" (Articles for deletion/Geoffrey Borg)
 * 04:14, March 19, 2006 User:Luigi30 (talk • contribs) deleted "Geoffrey Borg" (We are Geoffrey of Borg. You will be deleted.)
 * I guess the "vandalism" of which you speak is the removal of links to your website, which you added. WP:EL says do not add links to websites you own. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 09:15, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

YTMND
Why do you hate YTMND so much? I must know the reason for such an "irrational" opinion! ;D TacoNazi 02:09, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I am indifferent to YTMND, but most of the YTMNDs linked contain copyright violations either in the images or the soundtracks. YTMNDers are also engaged in viral marketing and I see no reason to help them along. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 09:58, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Swearing in the edit notes seems a bit over the top for someone who considers YTMND to be immature... 83.105.37.55 13:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * In calling them wankers I was characterising the YTMNDers' action in adding their fads to mainspace article as being essentially masturbation - i.e. providing pleasure only to the perpetrator and generally substantially less enjoyable (if not outright nauseating) for any onlookers. It was a simple factual statement. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 14:14, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Although I agree that YTMND fads do not belong in mainspace articles, and I also agree that vandalism should be dealt with swiftly, there are many edits that do not look like vandalism. While I agree that they should be reverted, and while I will revert them if I come across them, I should ask you to join me and assume good faith on edits that do not look like obvious attempts at vandalism.  On several of the WikiProjects I'm involved with, I merge a lot of this cruft, but me and the other editors always assume good faith in the people who wrote the content we merged (we leave them friendly messages, not hateful ones).  Just because something is out of hand doesn't mean we should ignore the foundations of our community. Sir Crazyswordsman 13:20, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * On edits that do not looks like vandalism, I do indeed try to assume good faith. Adding NEDM to the list of breed standards, linked to the YTMND fad, was vandalism, as were many of the other edits.  You can only adda fad so many times to an article before it becomes obvious that the article is the playground du jour.  Perhaps if it did not happen quite so often it would be easier to be sanguine about it... Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 13:29, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I understand, and I will try to help you as much as possible. And I agree completely with your thoughts on NEDM, and if I cared about NEDM (I personally don't like it), I'd have definitely been there to help revert it.  Still, if an editor is making his or her first edit with regards to a fad, it's still a good idea to help them understand positively so as to not shoo them away.  I've done so several times and have been thanked by these people, many of whom contribute in a positive way to articles now.  That should be our ultimate goal here. Sir Crazyswordsman 16:16, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

'''Personally I see no difference between what they have done and your response, but will agree with your definition. Maybe someone with less of a compulsion towards self gratification should deal with them in future.''' 83.105.37.55 14:41, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Get back under your bridge or I'll call the big billy-goat gruff to kick the shit out of you again. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 14:43, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

No need to involve your wife, I'm merely pointing out that swearing is immature and attention seeking. 83.105.37.55 14:49, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I am amazed that you think my wife, who is 5'4" tall, could kick the shit out of you. Clearly your body is as puny as your intellect. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 14:51, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

To me,it seems that you provoke YTMND for continuing vandalism,look at the link in the British Shorthair talk page. I wish you think of something that they can agree on,so this nonsense will stop. TTFN. --72.50.20.55 16:55, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Experience indicates that removing the link is all the provocation YTMNDers need. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 13:30, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Pensacola Christian College
It appears that we were simultaneously editing the Pensacola Christian College article after 68.209.195.2 raised objections to information in the Accreditation section. After reviewing both the edits where the info was originally inserted, as well as the resulting discussion, I opted to move most of the material in question to the talk page pending verification. I tried to keep most of the info you added on Christian college accreditation and TRACS. Please accept my apologies if I inadvertently stepped on your toes (or edits). --Kralizec! (talk) 13:42, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Responded at article Talk Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Re: Deletion of Celeste (VelvetGeisha)
How come you nominated this page for deletion? The author of the site hasn't even been given time to write his case of why it shouldn't be deleted. Also I have also found more sites on Wikipedia that is of the same type that has been there for ages without getting deleted (like Masuimi Max) so what makes this article any different? Please respond as I would greatly like to hear your thoughts on this matter. I run the official fan club of that actress btw.. She may not be up to Masuimi Max's status yet but she has a fan base and we don't understand why the article on her has to be deleted.
 * I nominated for deletion via AfD because User:Ryulong requested deletion, which you contested but without giving any reason. To unclutter CAT:CSD I moved it to AfD, as I usually do.  Your being aparently a single-purtpose account also gives an impression that this subject is being promoted.  The picture has a copyright issue.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 16:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I haven't had time to write any reason as there is a time difference and I have been at work. What do you mean by single-purtpose account? I am only just beginning to edit and post at Wikipedia and have edited 2 articles so far (one being the one on Celeste the other on Kurt Nilsen altho I am having problems with the picture I uploaded from the fanclub page.) As for the picture copyright issue I have permission from the copyrightholder and have added this to the tekst under the picture as of now. If it makes it better I can hand over the article to another member of Celeste's fan club so he can edit it if my status is in question.
 * AfD takes five days, you have plenty of time to fix the article before it finishes. See WP:BIO for the kinds of evidence people are looking for.  The meaning of single purpoise account is in the linked document - calling yourself velvetgeisha looks a bit sus, under the circumstances.  Not that it's necessarily a problem, as long as this is not a role account, which is verboten.  Don't worry, you'll get used to our Wiki-ways soon enough :-)  I'll post some helpful links on your Talk page. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 16:19, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The account acctually was Celestes but was given over to her fanclub as she never used it. I should have made my own but I never thaught about it. THink I should make one for myself to avoid further problems in the future maybe :) And all tips are most welcome :)

Regarding Ektron CMS400.NET
Something is screwed up with Articles for deletion/Ektron CMS400.NET. It appears that your nom was appended to an earlier closed AfD, and that after your nom it was speedily redirected and deletion out of order. I've slapped an at/ab pair on it, but you may wish to review/revert. — Kaustuv Chaudhuri 21:04, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks. That happens sometimes - I use Jnothman's AfD helper and if there is no AfD notice on Talk to give a clue, previously deleted articles sometimes get appended like that>  I usually fix it but I guess that must have been about the time the hub mail server went offline :-) Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 07:39, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

In regards to your comment about WP:SCHOOLS
In regards to the following comment you made on AMIB's talk page:


 * Good idea but doomed to fail. The usual suspects are already sabotaging it while simultaneously asserting that they will never accept it. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 21:01, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Wow. Talk about bad faith. And to think I just joined Wikipedia a few months ago, and already people like myself and over a dozen new people who signed up at WP:EiC in the last few months are being lumped into "the usual suspects". I understand you guys may have been here since the dawn of time (in terms of Wikipedia), but give everyone a fair chance, will you? --Stephane Charette 01:15, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Go and read the previous discussions. I recall two excellent compromise proposals and a number of other good ideas all of which were rejected out of hand because they were not "keep all schools".  Those of us who were looking for ways to cover schools without violating WP:V and WP:RS and without being a mere directory were repeatedly called deletionists, although no deletion was ever proposed, only merging or transwiki. The most common mantra as I recall was "all schools are inherently notable", which is proof by assertion.  I'm happy to take part in the debate, but I have no confidence in a good result because for some people this is a religious issue: no school article may be anything other than a separate article.  Even when it's been shown that the article was a hoax, some schools inclusionists have voted keep at AfD simply because the article had the S word in the title.  In no other area do we have defence of articles which are simply a restatement of the article title, or a copy and paste from a directory.  it is an anomaly, but some people are determined to keep it so.  See my old school for a school which I consider borderline notable. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 07:32, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Delisted DRV
To be honest, that DRV was in need of a bit of rougeness. I did warn the user concerned that I thought listing it was a bad idea, and it seems that I was right. With any luck the matter ends here. (Some good did come out of it, as it gave me a chance to notice that the DRV daily subpage hadn't been transcluded). --ais523 11:37, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * ready for archive.Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 11:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks
This will make the list of backmasked messages a lot easier to clean up.  Λυδ α  cιτγ  23:22, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * ready for archive Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 11:49, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Request for move, Headlight &rarr; Headlamp
Attempted to rename Headlight to Headlamp, unable to do so because Headlamp contains a redirect with an edit history. Rationale: While it is common for the two terms to be used interchangeably in colloquial speech, headlampis the technically correct term for the device itself. All regulations and technical specifications worldwide refer to headlamps, and not to "headlights". All manufacturers of such devices consider themselves makers of headlamps, not "headlights". All human-factors and traffic-safety researchers worldwide refer in their works to headlamps, not to "headlights". "Headlight" properly refers to the light itself, produced and distributed by the headlamp(s). This is certainly a distinction that would not be honored in everyday conversation or informal writing, but we're writing an encyclopedia here, so precision counts. Talking about "sealed beam lights" or "round lights" or "rectangular lights" or "replaceable-bulb lights" might be acceptable in a stylistic analysis in which the devices are significantly only by dint of their existence; such usage, though, is technically improper in a discussion of lighting devices. This article's improper title has been a low-level irritant for quite some time; 193.202.109.254's attempt to standardize on one term, even though s/he picked the wrong one, is the impetus for requesting a pagemove to correct that impropriety. Your assistance would be appreciated. TIA, Scheinwerfermann 16:59, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Still thinking about this one. More Talk needeed I think. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 11:49, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

SirIsaacBrock
I noticed that you were the one to enact the block on, it appears that a user  has shown up who seems to be interested in Hitler and Dog fighting, SirIsaacBrock's favorite topics. Four edits probably aren't enough for insta-blocking as sockpuppet, and checkuser could take weeks - so maybe you might like to keep an eye out. - Trysha (talk) 07:07, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Reviewed. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 11:49, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

ACIM
Would you please look at the discussion page on ACIM under Introduction. It seems that whatever is written for this article, Ste4k is going to obstruct. Thanks--<font color="#1E90FF" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Who <font color="#9400D3" face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"> 123   02:49, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Moot, user blocked. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 09:25, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

You deleted an article against consensus
You deleted the article David Walsh (sports reporter). You had been edit warring there and violated the rules about biographies of living people. You showed no willingness to resolve the conflict. I had asked for a third opinion, you ignore it and delete the article even though your suggestion to merge it had failed. You can delete my messages as "trolling" but you cannot deny that you abuse your administrative powers. Socafan 23:54, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Nope. I deleted nothing, I redirected Walsh and Ballester to an article which included the text which was otherwise virttually identical between the two, there being almost nothing in either of them other than the book.  There was no consensus to merge to Armstrong, but no consensus is needed to merge two article which have dulplicate content.  In fact, it's encouraged.  No admin tools were used.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 07:18, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm going to write a rouge anthem eventually, you know. <font color="#FFFFFF" style="background: maroon;"> RasputinAXP  c  09:26, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * There was a third opinion helping on the content. You however ignored it and made it redirects, thus deleting the history and hiding that you had violated the same rules about biographies of living people you had claimed to have blocked me for. Your blocks of me while in a content dispute were abuse of adminship. Restore Pierre Ballester and David Walsh (sports reporter) immediately. Socafan 11:30, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Like I said, I merged two articles with substantially identical content to a single article which more accurately reflected the nature of that content. This has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with adminship, it is a perfectly normal editorial action which can be performed by any registered user.  The third opinion text was about the book it remains, unaltered, in the merged article. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 11:34, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * You know very well that blocking other editors to gain an advantage in a content dispute is abuse of admin power. And you know very well that your argumentation had failed to convince and you should not make articles redirects if there are others who disagree. Socafan 11:37, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

DRV
Thanks for clearing up the messy layout. You got there before me. Tyrenius 12:06, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * De nada. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 11:47, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Barnstar
Many thanks. Cheers -- Samir  धर्म 05:25, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * De nada :-) Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 11:47, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

"Traditional counties" of Scotland
The County Watch and ABC are at it yet again: trying to claim that Scotland has "traditional counties". We knocked that myth on the head last year, when we merged the Traditional counties of Scotland article with the Administrative counties of Scotland article. Well now they are trying to say that the situation in Scotland and England is equivalent, see Template_talk:Scotland_counties. It is not. I am sick to the back teeth of this. Can you please keep an eye on the situation? --Mais oui! 09:42, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Responding there. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 11:46, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Armand Navabi
Hey dude, regarding Articles_for_deletion/Armand_Navabi I have added some new stuff to the article and put a new source in (he was featured in a big computer magazine as well as Wired). I reckon the kid passes WP:MUSIC now. Wondering if you might reconsider your vote. Drett 02:26, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Visited. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 11:46, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Cycling icon
I hope you'll forgive the impersonal nature of this note; inasmuch as I've essentially the same message for four editors, I'm copying it to the talk pages of SimonBrooke, Mindfrieze, Guy, and Vclaw. In any event, a discussion was recently undertaken at Portal talk:Cycling as to the image used in Template:Cycling project (which discussion, I should say, seemed to be altogether a good one); acting boldly, and consistent with my idiosyncratic and obsession-driven attempt properly to refactor or format the sundry Portal talk pages, I moved the discussion to Template talk:Cycling project, where such discussion is more likely to invite participation from others interested in the topic). I mean not at all to be indecorous, and so if one of you should revert, I'd certainly understand, especially inasmuch as Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cycling, another page at which such discussion might belong, seems generally moribund.  Joe 04:06, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Responded there. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 11:45, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I have reverted your userpage
User:I love ytmnd added a userbox to your page. I can only assume this was without your authorization and I have reverted it. If you would like me to refrain from reverting vandalism to your userpage in the future, just say the word. &mdash;ptk⁂fgs 11:38, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Heh! Amusing.  Yes, it was without my consent but full marks to him for at least keeping the silliness out of mainspace :-) Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 11:42, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

User:Irate
I must admit straight off that I do not know the details of this case, but, based on what I do know, I have suggested that User:Irate be unblocked, as long as they commit to Wikipedia policy. If I am way off the mark, then please say so. You will find the discussion here: Thanks. --Mais oui! 19:38, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Long_term_abuse
 * Not sure about that, but the trad counties mob are really begging to be taken down a peg at the moment. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 20:35, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Richard Pombo
Could you semi-protect Richard Pombo from vandalism? C56C 22:06, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * IP vandal is blocked Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 22:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

5RR
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Miniclip&action=history I didn't want to jump through the hoops, saw you were active. =D --mboverload @ 22:12, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, blocked. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 22:18, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&user=Israel_sucks Put tag, forgot to block --mboverload @ 22:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh yeah, and thanks for being on duty =D --mboverload @ 22:23, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Already blocked, username. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 22:23, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

User:SirIsaacBrock back again?
Hello JzG, could you take a look at ? Here's a WP:ANI report about this user. I'd say this is our guy. Thanks. (→ Netscott ) 05:09, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't feel qualified to recognbise the pattern since I don't really know Brock's edits that well, but I will have a look. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:44, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Never mind
I've got to get some sleep. I withdraw the proposal. --List Expert 12:12, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Seems a bit extreme. There is nothing wrong with making a proposal, as long as you proceed on the basis that all sides of the debate are acting in good faith. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 12:14, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Opinions of other admins
JzG, may I suggest you make sure a couple other admins are keeping an eye on this thing, so that your actions (if you end up blocking him further) are not taken as those of a real "rouge admininstrator." :) <b style="color:black;">Oz</b> Lawyer  16:59, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Good thought. Posted to WP:AN. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 11:46, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Once again I do care about policy that is not for you state if I do or don’t the fact is the word 'glorious' is not offensive in any way, any time I make contributions you go back and delete them--Acadamenorth 15:05, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * If you genuinely care about policy then I strongly suggest that you accept the advice of long-standing Wikipedians when they explain it to you. Repeatedly having your contributions reverted or deleted is generally an indication that you don't understand policy. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 15:09, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * And it wasn't Guy who reverted the "glorious" (which you misspelled, by the way) on Marshal Tito; it was me. We have articles with facts about people, not opinions. If, as you claim, you care about policy, you would know that, and abide by it. Fan-1967 15:15, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Request for user-space undeletion
Some time ago, I contributed a short article on Dorcas, a character from the Book of the New Sun. While a fairly minor character in a somewhat obscure book, I thought having the material I placed there easily available to other readers would be useful. The protagonist, for example, already has a significant article. (The book is famously impenetrable; it's sort of SF's Ulysses, if you will.)

Anyway, someone disagreed, and nominated it for deletion. I didn't log back into WP in time to see the warning, so now it's gone. I'd like to make a case for its restoration, which I'll likely do When I Get Some Extra Time, but more pressing than that is my own desire to have a copy of what I wrote there. Would it be possible for you to grab it and email it to me, or place it in my userspace, or something? You're listed as someone willing to do user space restorations....

Thanks very much in advance. The article was called Dorcas (Book of the New Sun). --Chetfarmer 17:32, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

best, chet farmer / chet at nogators dot com
 * Done. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 18:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks very much! --Chetfarmer 19:04, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Attention seeking
If by trying to actively improve Wikipedia, you mean attention seeking, then yes attention-seeking is what I am doing. You know not my motives. User:Dfrg.msc 08:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * For one who is not attention seeking you do a very fine job of, well, seeking attention. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:32, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Than' you Sir. User:Dfrg.msc [[Image:DFRG. MSC.jpg|10px|User talk:Dfrg.msc]] 01:10, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Attention seeking
If by trying to actively improve Wikipedia, you mean attention seeking, then yes attention-seeking is what I am doing. You know not my motives. User:Dfrg.msc 08:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * For one who is not attention seeking you do a very fine job of, well, seeking attention. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:32, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Than' you Sir. User:Dfrg.msc [[Image:DFRG. MSC.jpg|10px|User talk:Dfrg.msc]] 01:10, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Edit reversal?
JzG, may I ask why the edit I mad was considered inappropriate or not suitable? I noticed you reversed the contrib and was curious as to why. Thanks. User:MrKryz
 * I can't trace an edit by you that I've reverted. Details? Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 21:44, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The History Log edit at <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkgreen; font-weight:bold">16:03, 3 August 2006 is the reversal I am referring to. Thanks for replying so quick too ! <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:red; font-weight:bold"> User:MrKryz
 * OIC. WP:EL, commercial link.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 22:06, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I understand now. My next noob question would be why is that not a good external given that it goes to a non commercial guide/tip page w/o advertising or any service/sales info? Would it had been better to listed to the index of all guides and articles available as the [] added after that? Thanks for the help & advice. --Mrkryz 22:11, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The problem is that it is a commercial link - the site is actively selling something. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:28, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Kittie May Ellis
Why did you state here that this article is unverifiable? In my previous versions I've posted at least 15 secondary, published sources. Are you just reading what other editors have claimed (without any basis I might add). The newspaper the Snohomish Tribune is a verifiable source just for one. Wjhonson 18:45, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Replied there Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:31, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

FYI
CanadianCaesar Et tu, Brute? 06:54, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Reviewed. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:31, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Arbitration Request Filed
I have asked for abrbitration involving User:Nscheffey. See here. Please post any comments you desire to add. Ste4k 08:57, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Moot, user has left the building. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:34, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

OR Complaints
I am having trouble understanding your standings on WP:OR in regards to the article YTMND. Following that argument that all YTMND's are OR, does this mean that all information on YTMND would have to come from outside sources? How would the YTMND Wiki be a viable and acceptable, non-OR source, if it gains an overwhelming majority of info from YTMND's? Would the "YTMND News" be considered OR, since the only source is Max Goldberg?

I will be attempting to remove OR from the YTMND article, but i fear it may be labled as vandalism since it would remove a large part of the article. What steps would you advise me take as a precaution? 24.167.68.211 19:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Replied there. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:32, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

My neck
Aim higher, please -- you will hit nothing of value. Seriously, I read you loud and clear.--Mantanmoreland 23:24, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Flay me neck! Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:33, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Brett Kavanaugh
Hi, a while ago you undid some vandalism on my talk page and banned the person who did it. Could you explain to the editor at Brett Kavanaugh that putting conspiracy theories on a federal judge's article is not acceptable. I have explained his sources are questionable-- that is one of his books claims that Clinton was behind the Oaklahoma City bombing. Thanks. C56C 05:57, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Dear JzG:

Thank you for adding your comments to the discussion page of the Brett Kavanaugh article. A neutral viewpoint can be helpful to improve the article and make it as accurate as possible.

Apparently without reading the book, "The Secret Life of Bill Clinton," by British journalist Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, published by Regnery 1997, C56C has made the charge that the book, "claims that Clinton was behind the Oaklahoma (sic) City bombing." Perhaps C56C found this statement in a citizen's online book review at Amazon.com since the charge appears there. Reading online book reviews is not equal to the task of reading the book.

C56C used this false claim to unfairly smear the entire book and further allege other "sources are questionable." C56C should be asked to provide a direct quote with the page number from Evans-Pritchard's book to support the outrageous charge. The book either "claims that Clinton was behind the Oklahoma City bombing," or it does not. If the book does not make the claim then it is C56C who is actually the questionable source.

On page five the author did raise this question, "But what if the Clinton administration has not told the full truth about the Oklahoma bombing, as many of the families now suspect?" The blame for not telling the full truth is directed primarily at the Justice Department. Whatever faults are in Evans-Pritchard's book, claiming President Clinton was behind the tragic bombing is not one of them.

To be fair, the title of the book, "The Secret Life of Bill Clinton," may confuse readers to believe that somehow Bill Clinton was to blame. I personally know that privately the author Ambrose Evans-Pritchard objected to the title, but the publisher Regnery insisted on the title. The poorly chosen title may have unfairly cast a shadow over the former President, but the author never even remotely claimed, "that Clinton was behind the Oklahoma City bombing."

Reading the source documents used as references to the Brett Kavanaugh article should be done before discussion or characterizing the sources as "questionable." Loaded words like "conspiracy theory" are not a substitute for good scholarship. Thank you, Thomist 16:45, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I love conspiracy theories - as a fan of irony and satire they strike me as some of the funniest material out there. When I was an H2G2 researcher I wrote the article on conspiracy theories:   The one repeatable feature of all these is that they apply a SEP field to any obvious, prosaic explanation.  What's more likely: a deranged libertarian extremist bombing a Federal building, or the President of the United States arrranging it for, er, some real good reason, honest?  Anyway, I have no real opinion here other than that we should take a small-c conservative approach in the case of any living individual.  If these theories are really so very plausible then there will be numerous excellent high-quality sources we can cite.  If there aren't, well, we know what inference we can draw. Pace Jimbo, I think we are too ready to assume good faith on the part of people who, frankly, fail to demonstrate it.  Not saying that's the case here, I'm just getting a bit weary of POV-pushers and soapbox merchants.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 19:06, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The Amazon.com editorial for "The Secret Life of Bill Clinton," states the book "connects the president to everything from 1997's Oklahoma City bombing to Arkansas's drug underworld to the mysterious death of White House aide and longtime Clinton friend Vince Foster, and, of course, to Paula Jones." As for Christopher Ruddy's book Thomist cited, "The Park Police, the F.B.I., Special Counsel Robert Fiske and Foster's family all concluded that he had killed himself where he was found. But for four years a floating crap game, including Clinton bashers, radio hosts, Net crawlers, kooks, Jerry Falwell and a few journalists, has questioned the verdict, suggesting or insisting that he died elsewhere or by some other hand." Referring to Ruddy's evidence "some of Ruddy's unanswered questions are undoubtedly the normal static of police work." That's of course, if you read Amazon.com and NY Times editorial. Maybe Thomist believes they too are part of the conspiracy? C56C 20:45, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


 * But have you read the book? Anyway, the solution is to debate on Talk first and steer clear of novel syntheses.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 21:05, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I haven't read that book. I haven't read any book or video by Kent Hovind either. Yet, since both defy commonly held beliefs and are part of a fringe population I can depend on experts in the field. Experts have concluded there was no Vincent Foster cover up and Hovind is wrong on his beliefs as well.


 * Hovind's work and the criticisms of it are widely available on the net and in print. Criticisms of Hovind do not rely on novel syntheses or interpretaitons of reviews - we can attribute criticisms directly to named authorities in many cases.  And the Hovind article is not one of the better examples to look at anyway since opposition to him is on the basis of science not political affiliation. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 09:25, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Hovind is an excellent example because we are talking about evidence in both cases. The conspiracy Thomist wants to add is contrary to evidence presented by official investigators-- I mean three separate, independent investigations (including one that cost 80 million US dollars). Politicial affliations are irrelevant as long as the facts can be backed up with reliable sources. C56C 11:05, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * If people want to dispute the Amazon.com and NY Times reviews then should take it up with those sources. C56C 23:54, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me. C56C has been misleading JzG. C56C concealed from JzG that book reviews were used in place of reading actual books or documents and by calling me the name "conspiracy theorist" convinced JzG to issue me a "warning."

I appear to be the only person here who actually read the Official Investigative Report and the two books used as sources. JzG wrote, "If these theories are really so very plausible then there will be numerous excellent high-quality sources we can cite." By "these theories" I assume we are talking about grand jury witness intimidation which is the issue C56C seems unwilling to allow into the article. One "excellent high-quality source" that I have cited is the second highest court in the United States, the Special Division of the U.S. Court of Appeals that released the Official Report. Within the Official Report, the grand jury witness intimidation is discussed on several pages. This court IS the most "excellent high-quality source" to issue an opinion on "these theories."

C56C wrote, "The conspiracy Thomist wants to add (sic) is contrary to evidence presented by official investigators." First, can we agree not to call each other names? Is it necessary to give me the label, "conspiracy Thomist?" Second, the statement is absolutely false that I want to add something contrary to the evidence presented in the Official Report. How would C56C even know this having relied on book reviews (second hand opinions) rather than reading the actual books or Official Report? Name-calling is the result of poor scholarship.

The references, regarding grand jury witness intimidation, cited in books ARE consistent with the discussion of grand jury witness intimidation found in the Official Report. C56C has now made TWO FALSE statements: 1) That Evans-Pritchard's book "claims that Clinton was behind the Oaklahoma (sic) City bombing." 2) "The conspiracy Thomist wants to add (sic) is contrary to evidence presented by official investigators."

Should Wikipedia use these false statements by C56C to determine reliable sources?

Only by reading the Official Report will it be clear that I have not offered any novel syntheses. I have only presented the facts as they officially are. Absent reading the official document it would be prudent to withhold judgement on novel sytheses. I have been unfairly judged enough by the uninformed. Thomist 02:11, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Dear JzG:

On July 28 you inserted a heading "Recent edits" at the Brett Kavanaugh discussion page. You wrote: "I have removed this form the article and asked Thomist to achieve consensus here befopre reinserting this content."

I respected your advice and have been working toward that goal, with patience. User C56C who first contacted you at the top of this discussion on your page is participating in the discussion, yet C56C continues to edit the article. It seems unfair that I must wait to reach a concensus before making changes to the article while C56C continues to make changes independent of others.

You seem to be fair-minded. Could you put things back as they were on July 31, and encourage C56C to wait until we reach a solution before editing the article. Thank you. Thomist 01:52, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * See The Wrong Version Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:33, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Request for opinion: Talk:British Shorthair
Another user has added the NEDM/Happycat information into the British Shorthair "Famous British Shorthairs" subsection. In an effort to prevent another revert war over this, I have moved the debate into the Article's Talk Page. Your opinion and vote would be greatly appreciated. --Targetter 04:55, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Replied there. YTMNDcruft, not fit for inclusion. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:35, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Threatening me
Read my userpage. I dont take lame threats from users like you seriously. By the way, I'm re-adding the NPOV tag as other users like User:Incorrect have also stated that The Guardian is anti-Semitic and the article is biased. Tchadienne 16:15, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Read my userpage: I don't make "lame threats", I am a rouge admin - my threats are real and substantive. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 16:30, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Touche. You've really got me scared now. I'm shakinggggggg. Why dont you read ? Or is he not qualified? Is that your argument? Because this looks qualified to me. Tchadienne 16:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Are you serious? I'm really trying to stretch WP:AGF into believing that you didnt look at the history of his userpage and see that that was vandalism. User:ArbiterofTruth added that. Jeez. I cant believe your even an administrator. Tchadienne 16:55, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm serious. I don't give a toss what anyone else has done, what you are doing is edit-warring over uncited content. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 18:45, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Disappointed
Very disappointed that you deleted my whole comment (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Teenage_Fanclub&oldid=67630366 ) without making any attempt to refactor it. As it says on the RPA page, "Removing an entire comment is almost always poor form" and this holds true for this case. In future, please notify me via my talk page and maybe we can come to some agreement as to the content to remain. Deleting entire comments out-of-hand smacks of censorship with no attempt to understand the parties involved. Or as the RPA page states, "Altering another person's words -- even when well-intentioned -- invites accusations of censorship and misrepresentation. Moreover, because removing personal attacks is itself a controversial guideline, any instance of doing so invites further controversy about whether it's appropriate." I am always happy to enter into polite discussion about (virtually) anything, and feel that this would have been a far more productive way of dealing with any personal attack (RorI) --Scottbeck 18:01, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I have nothing against you making a fair comment, but see little if any productive purpose to adding a crowing comment to a long-dead debate. What role did your comment play in building a great encyclopaedia?  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 18:07, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * So you removed the entire comment cos you didn't like the content and flagged it as a RPA? Do you think that would be appropriate on Talk:Israel or any other page? Why/Why not?

Crowing is not a personal attack! "I'm right and you were wrong" is not a personal attack and is a perfectly valid addition to a talk page (from observation of many). The approach taken by the other party ("Well, i edit lots of articles so I get to say what goes into the wiki and I will remove anything i dislike" sound familiar?) definitely deserved an answer, even long after the fact, and some small reinforcement ensure the truth was understood by the other party. I am a reasonably longterm wikipedian and the reason that I have stopped editing articles (except for obvious misprints) is my utter disgust in those who will shout (edit, remove) over any words which they don't want to hear instead of reasonably and logically discussing the issue and coming to a reasoned solution. I see many people take this course, including far too many admins. So I don't edit many articles, feel little sense of ownership and don't donate much of my time/money to building a greater encyclopedia. Your act of removal instead of negotiation only further reinforces my disappointment in the failure of wikipedia as a colloborative community.--Scottbeck 18:40, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It was a gratuitous and unhelpful comment, so I hit Rollback. It's a blunt instrument, obviously, but as I say I don't see any benefit to the project from your comment. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 18:44, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * That's your prerogative as an admin, i guess, but I'm still disappointed in the lack of discussion and the flagging of the entire comment as RPA. But I've had my say, and will continue to refrain from actively editing. Thanks for further convincing me--Scottbeck 18:53, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

User:Acadamenorth
You really need to unblock that guy. He was blocked once, which caused my IP to be autoblocked for the 6973769379379th time this year. I told the blocking user, and they unblocked. Now another block! My IP is switching back and forth between the Acadamenorth one and another one, which is why I'm able to edit at the moment, though I wasn't several minutes ago. Mad Jack 18:48, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Classic AOL collateral, but that is one disruptive user. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 18:57, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Tchadienne
Hi. I fear this user may have issues dating from his former identities at wikipedia. He has placed a NPA template on my user talk page, although I have been nothing but civil to him. Do you think it would be ok to remove it, as it was clearly placed there inappropriately? Well done for your block of him. --Guinnog 18:41, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * will remove it. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 19:17, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot! --Guinnog 19:19, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Re:Lostpedia
Thanks for your message. Yeah I'm fully aware of the history of the page, and have read the logs about the review etc etc. However, I still think its a worthy article but I shall look for sound evidence before making a challenge to Wikipedia --Nickb123 II 17:17, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, but bear in mind that if you don't actively work on it in userspace it's liable to be nuked; holding deleted content in userspace can get people in trouble, but if they are showing a good-faith attempt to fix the cause of deletion that's generally OK. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 18:11, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, got it. From reading the original format, I appreciate the initial reasons for flagging up the article. However, I think with a more suitable format that isn't "shameless advertising" as one user called it, an appraisal could perhaps be carried out at a future date. I am thus trying to fix the cause of deletion and so hope the content can stay for the moment under my talk page. Thanks for the advice --Nickb123 II 19:59, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe. My view is that a brief paragraph in Lost is all that's needed, this is pretty much standard for fan forums.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 20:07, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your help, and I apologise if I was brass, I appreciate that you are just following Wiki policy that's established for a reason. However, I still disagree with the deletion (which is obviously a view I'm entitled to have) and will try to campaign for a revert on the delete. Thank you for your help, and I will lodge my protest in a formal manner abiding by Wiki rules. Thanks again --Nickb123 II 20:30, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * No problem. It's fine do disagree, policy is there so that all us folks who disagree can get along anyway :-) Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 20:40, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah I get that. I've got some arguments together and written them down. I'm just really following the WP:WEB guidelines and looking for more source material that reference the site in order to give validity to my proposal. Other than that I guess the only other things I can do is provide an article alternative if someone was to request it. When I'm done, I should post my initial request in the deletion review right? I know you don't agree with Lostpedia having an article, but if you could give me any line of enquiry to go down that'd be greatly appreciated --Nickb123 II 21:59, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

In response to the AN/I Discussion
(Carreid on from the discussion here- I really have no desire to get invovled with this dispute. However, I found the above statement- "I think it's not exactly a secret that some people accuse anybody who is not completely uncritical of Israel of being antisemitic" was inappropriate to bring up here. Since it very much relates to divisive and emotive issues. Your comment was needlessly inflammatory.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 22:29, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It is relevant and speaks directly to the case at issue. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 22:36, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I really don't see why you would even get into all that on the AN/I. Also, While it is a common accusation that people are accused of being anti-semitic if they criticize Israel, you would be hard- pressed to actually find instances of non-fringe Jewish organizations accusing someone only for criticizing the country. Regardless, I think it was only nominally relevant to the discussion and I would never have even paid attention to the dispute if I didn't see the snide and inflammatory remark that we are currently arguing about.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 23:00, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I went into it on WP:ANI because it is the root of Tcadienne's problem. He accuses The Guardian of antisemitism because The Guardian has printed reports critical of the Israeli government.  That is not antisemitism. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:20, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Applying the WP:CORP criteria for products and services
UKPhoenix79 has cited several independently sourced product reviews in magazines, to demonstrate that the products satisfy the WP:CORP criteria for products and services. Please revisit the discussion with an eye to determining whether the WP:CORP criteria are satisfied by these published works (and any others that can be found), and thus whether fixing the article is a matter of cleaning it up using sources other than just the advertising and press releases put out by Bose itself, rather than deleting it. Uncle G 12:36, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Reviewed. I don't see the applicability, Bose already has an article after all. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:36, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The applicability is that they are products that are manufactured by Bose, and thus fall within the remit of the the WP:CORP criteria for products and services. &#9786;  The intent is that we don't have individual articles for every individual product made by every individual company on the planet (Think about all of those companies that make screws, for example.), but that we do include notable products or product ranges. Uncle G 14:40, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Uh Oh
Take a look at User:NOBS. --Guinnog 19:21, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * No surprises there, I guess... Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 19:57, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * You forgot to add your signature on User talk:NOBS! Don't forget next time. ;) Tchadienne

Sexual Freedom League
Hi Guy : - ) I left a comment on the Afd. Looking at the article I noticed that it was started by Amorrow using the sock Pinktulip. Morrow and Sloan made most of the content edits. Since a banned user started and made a large number of the edits, one option may be to speedy delete and immediately start over using verifiable reliable sources. Strange as it may seem, if the article is a keep I recommend this route. FloNight   talk  13:52, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

I also left an opinion in th AFD page. I think there's a very thorny issue here. Sam Sloan seems to be an aging guy who was at the core of this and now wants his historical due. I sympathize, but the problem is, he is himself a "primary source" and therefore not possibly NPOV. But his page, that was removed from links, has a *lot* of baby in the bathwater. From his page, we get this link:

http://www.oac.cdlib.org/findaid/ark:/13030/tf967nb3x9

So, there are objective sources available -- sloan says they once were available online, but no longer. the OAC says:

Collection Title: Sexual Freedom League Records Contributing Institution: Bancroft Library Collection Dates: 1962-1983 Items Online: None online. Must visit contributing institution.

I'm about the same age as Sam Sloan, was active in "counter-culture" during the same periods. I think the material is historically important, and Sloan was central. His book, "Sex Marchers," was co-written with the SFL's founder. If Sloan lacks an understanding of the Wiki and how it works, that's not sufficient reason to excise him from history...that's not NPOV. Bustter 19:19, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Sloan understands perfectly well, he just suffers from MPOV :-) Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 20:13, 6 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe so. Larry Flynt is no prize, either, but I wouldn't leave him out of the history books. Berkley's sexual feedom movement (at least as the contemporary media viewed it) was a direct successor to Mario Savio's Free Speech Movement, so it's not non-notable. The irritation Sloan has caused here may be the greater threat to NPOV than his inflated idea of his role. Bustter 20:23, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

User:Acadamenorth
It is extremely imperative that you either unblock this guy or do something else about this - because - the autoblock on my account consistantly returns (I'm writing this because I don't know if it will vanish soon or not). It is incredibly and pointlessly frustrating to be autoblocked every once in a while, as I have been so persistantly throughout this year. Mad Jack 06:25, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well? I was blocked again all this morning. I simply categorically refuse to be autoblocked any further. Mad Jack 17:35, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * That is an absurd statement; you can refuse all you like, the fact of dynamic IP users being caught by autoblocks is a long-standing one. I am trying to find out how to alleviate the problem. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 20:14, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Of course it's an absurd statement, yet I am never the less making it. :) I haven't got the autoblock in the past several hours, but that may just be temporary. Though, of course, I hope not. Mad Jack 22:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm actively trying to find out how to minimise this collateral damage. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 22:18, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Awnsering

 * I respectfull disagree here, Guy. I know Tchadienne a bit better than you, and in his 9,000 edits has always been a staunch opposer of pov-pushing. Even the Guardian was born from legitimate concerns, the too apologetic tone of the article, even if the solution, a criticism section, was probably not the best way too solve the issue, and Tchadienne took it too personally. But as I said, I know quite well Tchadienne's edits, but maybe you'll inform me that all his edits with very few other editors in central Africa was part of a secret agenda. I think that from his edit history Tchadienne should have earned some respect from the community, and please remember that WP:BLOCK when speaking of controversial blocks says: blocks of logged-in users with a substantial history of valid contributions, regardless of the reasoning for the block. Cheers,--Aldux 22:43, 6 August 2006 (UTC)


 * In this case he is insisting on inserting uncited material and apparent WP:OR. Which is fine, we all have opinions.  He edit-warred over it, which got him a short block.  Which is fine, it happens to everyone.  Then he started repeating the edits from anonymous accounts (quite openly) and taunting admins for failing to prevent him continuing to pusah his POV.  Which is not fine and got his block extended.  To which his response was to continue editing anonymously and then register a new account, which again is not fine.  There is nothing controversial about briefly blocking for tendentious edits, and there is nothing controversial about resetting and extending blocks when an editor blatantly evades a valid block.  I understand this is not the first time he has behaved in this way.  We have a number of users who have a long history of problematic editing, blocks and such - User:SPUI springs to mind.  As long as they accept preventive blocks and don't try to circumvent them, this is cool, they can continue to contribute once the dust has settled.  But block evasion is bad - always - and when it's done in this style it's very bad. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 10:34, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

deletion of smartassembly contributions
Hi,

Thank you for getting back to me so quickly :-)

I understand. 1) Can I try to insert the links for example: http://sharptoolbox.com/categories/code-protectors-obfuscators, or is it too commercial too? 2) Can I try to create a 100% neutral smartassembly page, as another user, only stating what it does?

Thank you for your help. --Smartassembly 18:04, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Extenrla links are worse, perWP:EL. Sorry.  our best bet is to see WP:SOFTWARE and see if you can establish the importance of the product; also you need to study some other articles and the links at the top of your Talk page to see how to write a properly neutral article.  User:Stephen B Streater is in my view very proficient at writing neutral articles, his advice may be worth seeking. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 18:25, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

The User:Tchadienne incident
Hi! It’s OK to be frustrated about the whole thing, but venting the frustration in an edit summary—especially one for an administrative action—is not so great. If it’s any help, keep in mind that letting a troll provoke you is an admission of defeat. —xyzzyn 22:41, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I know. But let's be honest, registering another account to evade a block is fuckwittery... Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 10:35, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Sympathies. I guess I'd recommend you stop rising to the bait on his talk page -- conversation with this fellow has rarely solved much. (But then, I'm on his hit list, so I suppose I'm biased.) &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:19, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Hey, not only am I on his hitlist, I'm now on Hivemind! Apparently I have been hiding behind a secret identity in order to harass people.  Or something. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 17:36, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Congratulations, that's always been a goal of mine... sabotaged at least in part by my total anonymity and lack of a photo, I guess... &mdash;Bunchofgrapes (talk) 18:33, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Formatting matter
Hey, I'm having some trouble formatting a DRV request on for Category:Pseudoscientists. The title section doesn't want to show up. Any help from the Hivemind would be appreciated. Thanks. JoshuaZ 21:13, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Never mind. Got dealt with. JoshuaZ 21:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Formatting matter
Hey, I'm having some trouble formatting a DRV request on for Category:Pseudoscientists. The title section doesn't want to show up. Any help from the Hivemind would be appreciated. Thanks. JoshuaZ 21:13, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Never mind. Got dealt with. JoshuaZ 21:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

WikiWoo Two
User seems to have a thing about Ontario regional government bureaucrats. I first noticed that he (or she) has recreated the AfD'ed David Szwarc as a redirect to Madarins of Regional Government in Ontario (sic), and in checking his (or her) contributions uncovered what seems to be a walled garden in support of Ontario regional government bureaucrats. I mean, "Senior administrators" as a redirect to Madarins of Regional Government in Ontario (sic)? It look slike admin assistance is required, and as you've apparently dealt with him before... --Calton | Talk 00:24, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * responding there. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 11:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I think it's about time he get a very long block. He's recreated the recently deleted David Szwarc, Mitch Zamojc and Roger Maloney and redirected them (along with Senior administrators to Madarins (sic) of Regional Government in Ontario. He obviously has no regard for any rules here. <b style="color:black;">Oz</b> Lawyer  02:10, 30 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Hasn't he exhausted the patience of the community yet? Anyone who fixes his edits, along with an explanation of why they violate WP policies is immediately met with a "You'reacensoringgestapovandalencyclopediasaresupposedtoprovideinformation..." rant with no attempt to engage other editors' explanations of why his edits are contrary to WP policies.  WikiWoo seems incompatible with the WP community for the following reasons:
 * Does not WP:AGF. That does not fully do his behavior justice, actually.  It is not merely that he fails to assume good faith, he lives in an alternative reality where good faith disagreements do not exist.  If someone takes issue with one of his edits, it is because that editor is a paid agent of the Peel regional government.
 * Violates WP:CIVIL. Once again, this does not appear to be a concept he is capable of grasping.  I have yet to have a single interaction with him where he does not personalize disagreements over edits to articles.
 * WP:V, WP:RS, WP:CITE. He has strong opinions about the Ontario regional governments and is here mostly to promote them because T HE T RUTHTM must be told.  Believes that newspapers, etc. are bought and paid for by the Peel regional government and so cannot be trusted to tell T HE T RUTHTM .  Therefore, he must use WP to disseminate T HE T RUTHTM about the Peel regional government to a waiting world.
 * An RFC was started for similar behavior back when he was WikiRoo. This does not seem to have resulted in improved conduct at WP, however.  <font face= "Old English Text MT">  JChap   T  /  E   01:20, 8 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, this conversation is obviously proof of the conspiracy against him! He must have made over 500 edits by now, almost all of which have required reversion or editing, and in all the battles he's caused, not one other editor has ever agreed with him (which just feeds his conspiracy theories). I started the RfC against him, and in the middle of it some admin decided it would be nice for Wiki to start with a clean slate instead of having to go through the RfC. Just mind boggling. Something really needs to be done on the admin level. --Gary Will 06:41, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Unblocking Tchadienne
As the original blocking admin, I'm inclined to remove Tchadienne's block now that he/she's settled down. However, you placed a range block on 4.249.0.0/16, which I would prefer not to remove without your approval. Would you be willing to do so for now? Ral315 (talk) 17:19, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Happy enough, I was just stopping him evading your block. He does appear to have climbed off the ceiling now, although is still very obviously labouring under a substantial burden of misconceptions.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 17:26, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi JzG. I see that you haven't yet removed the range block you posed on Tchadienne, since Ral315 is for unblocking, and I had interpreted your exchange with Ral as meaning you agreed, could you do it? I would be grateful, and don't think the range is needed anymore, as yourself said. Cheers,--Aldux 15:07, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I will do it, I had assumed Ral was going to. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 15:09, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Images
Why are Fair use images not allowed in userspace? Feedyourfeet 20:38, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It's a copyright thang. Fair use applies to illutrsting the subject only.  There are some people who specialise in this, User:Geni is particularly clued-up if you need a pointer. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 20:51, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Bicycle helmet
Hi JzG. I would like to contribute to the cycling helmet article and make it more neutral. Please do not blanket-revert my edits.Prospect77 15:35, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * You are most welcome to contribute and I liked some of what you did, but the problem was the removal of too much material, much of it cited, all at the same time; I tired working through it but it was too hard fopr my poor overworked brain :-( I agree that there is a good deal too much opinion there, I suggest we work together to fix that a bit at a time.  See you at Talk :-) Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 15:39, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * If I'm making big changes, I often do it a piece at a time so people can revert just the bits they dislike more easily. Stephen B Streater 16:02, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The problem hewe was a fairly rapid series of such changes which had the effect of completely altering the tone of the article from a sceptical bias (which did indeed need fixing and more cites) to a pro bias, with citations to some very dodgy sources. As far as I'm concerned the scientific method applies: the proposers of an intervention must prove their case.  Here, they have not - the predictions from the only type of study to show benefit have never been realised in any real population.  The only study ever to show benefit in a real population was another case-control study.  The case-control article describes quite nicely the problems with this kind of study.  There aren't many areas where I consider myself particularly well-informed, but this is one of them - having had my assumptions challenged, I went out to find out more and now have a collection of a little under a thousand documents of one sort and another, including all the major studies.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 16:10, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I always get very hot in helmets. I look forward to reading up on it all :-) Stephen B Streater 22:59, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Some of my document collection is on a private extranet server, drop me an emu if you want a login. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 23:01, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

What do you think you're doing?
Besides abusing your power, I mean. All I added to the article was the bit about an Indian burn also being called an Indian Bracelet, and the related Indian Necklace. That other crap must have been added by someone else, which you would have seen if you bothered to look. Then you go and (unjustifiably, as you know) protect the page. I think I'll look into who you should be reported to for abuse of power. 70.53.111.162 23:37, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Uncited content is always a legitimate target for removal. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 06:34, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Gaza
I have added a number of references to the RfA.

Do you consider the Vatican, Reuters and Encarta to be dubious sources?

Carbonate 01:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * No new information. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:30, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

User talk:Tchadienne
Hello, this user complained to me about your protecting his talk page. I fully agree that some action was needed, and hopefully the protection has communicated that his previous behaviour was improper. However, I do think that leaving the talk page protected for any length of time is a poor solution, as long as Tchadienne is freely able to edit other users have to be able to contact him. I would suggest unprotecting the page, and hope the message has been received. If the previous behaviour continues, then, in my mind, a block coupled with talk page protection would be fully appropriate. - SimonP 00:16, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict)Hi Guy. I'm sorry I have to disturb you again (and always for the same story), but don't you think you've exagerated with the blocking of the Tchadienne's talk page? To make an example from my wiki experience, I edit a lot in the Balkans, an area where edit-wars are very common, and there are there quite a lot of users who systematically remove warnings and blocks, without admins finding it such a violation to intervene. I don't ask you to do that, but if Tchadienne decided simply to archive the page, would there be any problem? I must admit I find this dispute on the user talk page quite futile.--Aldux 00:22, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * If he wants tochange accounts that's fine, but he has not been harassed, and he knows it, and selectively removing the exchanges relating to what he has done wrong and leaving the nice messages is simply not on. This is a repeating pattern with this user: tendentious edits, blocks, whitewash the Talk pagfe, move on to a new account, the while playing the injured innocent. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 06:36, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I waned to insert this at the user's talk but cannot as it is protected. You may if you want to.


 * "Most users treat their user talk pages like regular talk pages, and archive the contents periodically to a personal subpage — either when the page gets too large, on a regular schedule, or when they take a wikivacation. Others delete comments after they have responded to them.


 * Actively erasing non-harassing personal messages without replying (if a reply would be appropriate or polite) will probably be interpreted as hostile. In the past, this kind of behavior has been viewed as uncivil, and this can become an issue in arbitration or other formal proceedings." (Talk pages) --Guinnog 12:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

User talk:Tchadienne
Hello, this user complained to me about your protecting his talk page. I fully agree that some action was needed, and hopefully the protection has communicated that his previous behaviour was improper. However, I do think that leaving the talk page protected for any length of time is a poor solution, as long as Tchadienne is freely able to edit other users have to be able to contact him. I would suggest unprotecting the page, and hope the message has been received. If the previous behaviour continues, then, in my mind, a block coupled with talk page protection would be fully appropriate. - SimonP 00:16, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict)Hi Guy. I'm sorry I have to disturb you again (and always for the same story), but don't you think you've exagerated with the blocking of the Tchadienne's talk page? To make an example from my wiki experience, I edit a lot in the Balkans, an area where edit-wars are very common, and there are there quite a lot of users who systematically remove warnings and blocks, without admins finding it such a violation to intervene. I don't ask you to do that, but if Tchadienne decided simply to archive the page, would there be any problem? I must admit I find this dispute on the user talk page quite futile.--Aldux 00:22, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * If he wants tochange accounts that's fine, but he has not been harassed, and he knows it, and selectively removing the exchanges relating to what he has done wrong and leaving the nice messages is simply not on. This is a repeating pattern with this user: tendentious edits, blocks, whitewash the Talk pagfe, move on to a new account, the while playing the injured innocent. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 06:36, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I waned to insert this at the user's talk but cannot as it is protected. You may if you want to.


 * "Most users treat their user talk pages like regular talk pages, and archive the contents periodically to a personal subpage — either when the page gets too large, on a regular schedule, or when they take a wikivacation. Others delete comments after they have responded to them.


 * Actively erasing non-harassing personal messages without replying (if a reply would be appropriate or polite) will probably be interpreted as hostile. In the past, this kind of behavior has been viewed as uncivil, and this can become an issue in arbitration or other formal proceedings." (Talk pages) --Guinnog 12:23, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Wiki "BADASS" Woo Redux
It appears that nothing can convince this user to stop his pattern of tendentious editing, and even that he is rather proud of it (as evidenced by his new sig). Most recently he has recreated an article merged by consensus, behavior for which he has been blocked before. I'd report this to WP:AN/I, but this would likely result in a temporary block and his previous blocks have not resulted in a behavior change. Repeated explanations of WP policies also do not seem to have resulted in him being more willing to follow those policies. I'm convinced a more permanent solution is in order. There was an RFC discussing his behavior back when he was WikiRoo. In your opiniion, would another RFC be appropriate at this time, should this go straight to RFArb or should a third course of action be pursued? There are numerous editors who have tried and failed to resolve problems with this user. <font face= "Old English Text MT"> JChap   T  /  E   12:48, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I have agreed to advocate for WikiWoo. (See generally User:TheronJ/Advocacy/WikiWoo).  Unfortunately, I'm still coming up to speed.  If possible, I'd ask everyone to give this several more days before bringing an RFAr or similar proceeding.  (I'm also going to ask WW to take it easy during that same period).  Thanks, TheronJ 13:12, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Good plan. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 13:18, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict) I can agree to wait. The advice you give him at the advocacy page is good.  The best outcome would be for WW to learn to work within consensus, assume good faith and work from sources.  As this advice has been given to him before by numerous editors and he has neglected to take it, I am not all that optimistic that it will happen this time, but I am willing to give you a chance to try. <font face= "Old English Text MT">  JChap   T  /  E   13:26, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Nazi moon base
The humor of Wikipedia having an article about Nazi-related UFO activity, with reference to a book by "Commander X", doesn't escape me, but that's pretty much how any paranormal concept is going to look to skeptical minds. I found more book citations in the Nazi mysticism article, which with the Zundel book and the Serrano and Terziski stuff show that it's not merely one person's theory. Being able to document the marginal as well as the conventional is Wikipedia's strength. Gazpacho 22:23, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * For what value of marginal? We deleted aetherometry.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 22:27, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Do you think I've adequately separated fact and fantasy? I also added a scholarly source on this craziness. Gazpacho 16:13, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Re : An AfD close
I have to agree that it doesn't deserve an article on its own, but in strict terms a merge isn't a delete. Considering this the majority votes in deletion stands at about 55%. The best solution, rather than going through the process again, is to simply merge anything slavagable per Uncle G in the AfD debate, and redirect. - Best regards, Mailer Diablo 15:16, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Done that. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 16:01, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Nazi moon base
The humor of Wikipedia having an article about Nazi-related UFO activity, with reference to a book by "Commander X", doesn't escape me, but that's pretty much how any paranormal concept is going to look to skeptical minds. I found more book citations in the Nazi mysticism article, which with the Zundel book and the Serrano and Terziski stuff show that it's not merely one person's theory. Being able to document the marginal as well as the conventional is Wikipedia's strength. Gazpacho 22:23, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * For what value of marginal? We deleted aetherometry.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 22:27, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Do you think I've adequately separated fact and fantasy? I also added a scholarly source on this craziness. Gazpacho 16:13, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Re : An AfD close
I have to agree that it doesn't deserve an article on its own, but in strict terms a merge isn't a delete. Considering this the majority votes in deletion stands at about 55%. The best solution, rather than going through the process again, is to simply merge anything slavagable per Uncle G in the AfD debate, and redirect. - Best regards, Mailer Diablo 15:16, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Done that. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 16:01, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

School accreditation
Please review School accreditation. CaliEd 21:49, 8 August 2006 (UTC)


 * It is important to note that some states require accreditation and have exemption for religious schools, and that exemption is sometimes used by diploma mills. Tim4christ17 removed that cited fact. CaliEd 03:45, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Take it to Talk. Written neutrally and backed by a decent citation that can go in, as well as his text, which is fair and neutrally stated. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 06:37, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Please review Template talk:Unaccredited. CaliEd 22:04, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Requests for adminship/Mets501 2
Hi again. Sorry to bother you again but see the two messages on my talk. I replied to Mets on his talk and would like to say something to Tch about not being so uncivil in an RfA. Maybe you could say so on my behalf. I might make a note on the RfA about the questionable good-faith of Tchad's vote too; what do you think? Best --Guinnog 15:54, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, I'm over there. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 22:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks, again, for your support. In retrospect I slightly regret assuming good faith inasmuch as I tried to help him avoid the drop he was clearly heading for, for a day. I knew he had a history, but wasn't personally involved last time around. Oh well, one lives and learns. --Guinnog 23:22, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, you never really can win with that one. I've AGFed on people who have ended up indef-blocked, and I've been suspicious of folks who turn out to be charming and indeed model Wikipedians (yes, Stephen, I mean you).  Bugger of a job, sysopping... Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 23:31, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Tendentious editing
User:JzG/Tendentious editing is very good. I would just like to comment to you that while the dictionary definition of "tendentious" is basicly "biased" or POV, both the feel of the word and its use in Wikipedia might suggest to someone who doesn't look up the word that it is as much about tedious repetition as it is about bias. just sayin' WAS 4.250 22:25, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I think I incorporated that, feel free to change it if you think I got it wrong. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 22:35, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Requests for adminship/Mets501 2
Hi again. Sorry to bother you again but see the two messages on my talk. I replied to Mets on his talk and would like to say something to Tch about not being so uncivil in an RfA. Maybe you could say so on my behalf. I might make a note on the RfA about the questionable good-faith of Tchad's vote too; what do you think? Best --Guinnog 15:54, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, I'm over there. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 22:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks, again, for your support. In retrospect I slightly regret assuming good faith inasmuch as I tried to help him avoid the drop he was clearly heading for, for a day. I knew he had a history, but wasn't personally involved last time around. Oh well, one lives and learns. --Guinnog 23:22, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, you never really can win with that one. I've AGFed on people who have ended up indef-blocked, and I've been suspicious of folks who turn out to be charming and indeed model Wikipedians (yes, Stephen, I mean you).  Bugger of a job, sysopping... Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 23:31, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Tendentious editing
User:JzG/Tendentious editing is very good. I would just like to comment to you that while the dictionary definition of "tendentious" is basicly "biased" or POV, both the feel of the word and its use in Wikipedia might suggest to someone who doesn't look up the word that it is as much about tedious repetition as it is about bias. just sayin' WAS 4.250 22:25, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I think I incorporated that, feel free to change it if you think I got it wrong. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 22:35, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks
Thank you very much for tackling the user who seems to me to have been trying to turn this place into Spankiwankipedia. It was about time someone did. I wish you luck of it as I am not sure he listens, but if it works, then great. JuniorJetKaptain 21:44, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
 * (note to self: Fastifex (talk • contribs • [ page moves ] • block user • [ block log ]) ) Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 13:07, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Deletion of JunJiDo
JunJiDo 23 unique Google hits for this variant of karate apparently restricted to a single redlinked school. The only mystery is why it suddenly popped up on my watchlist, since there is no sign of it having been deleted before. Just zis Guy you know? 16:54, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I believe you nominated this for deletion. Why did you nominate it? How can I get a copy of it? I am following the complex rules for deletion and understand it was nominated. I have read Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/JunJiDo and it is not clear why it was nominated. If it's not clear for me, how can community consensus of 3 people be taken seriously. Why couldn't I be notified? What does "Delete per nom." mean? I would hardly call 3 people a community consensus. How can a get the content of the deleted information back to rework it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frodoat (talk • contribs)


 * I nominated it for the reasons stated. You can challenge the deletion via deletion review if you think the cited concerns are fixable. The cited concerns in this case are the lack of reliable secondary sources, the appearance of advertising and the lack of evidence of importance. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 14:36, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for clarification of your reasons. I and the community would be able to understand and debate the nomination for deletion when you cite your concern this way. I cannot provide secondary source as this style is new. Advertising was not my intent and the link could have been removed. I am sure new styles of martial arts are important to many people, but maybe this article should be part of a larger article on the growth of new martial art styles. Is there a way to get the content back or is it lost forever? --Frodoat 14:51, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Nothing is lost forever. If you intend to work on it and build a new article with reliable sources discussing new martial arts movements or some such thenb I will undelete it to your user space where you and your friends can work on it.  If it's not actively worked on it may be deleted again from userspace, but something which shows evidence of being under active deevlopment would not normally be nuked. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 15:05, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I am trying to learn with the little bits of time I have scattered throughout the day. I believe I have created a userpage User:Frodoat correctly. I would appreciate a copy, to work on, being restored there. Thanks again for you help. --Frodoat 13:50, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Good job JzG, in explaning the procedure and things that Frodoat needs to know, definitely much quicker than if I were to type it out again! :) - Cheers, Mailer Diablo 15:21, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Marvin Heemeyer
Would you mind taking a look at this and the talk page? There's an editor there I swear needs whacking with a clue-by-four, and he's starting to get on my last nerve. The article concerns a guy who welded steel-plate armor to a bulldozer and went on a rampage, destroying half a small town in Colorado before blowing his brains out. One editor seems to think he's some kind of folk hero, and keeps trying to insert language to that affect, including {badly sourced) charges that a corrupt municipal government drove this guy to do what he did. American libertarian hoo-hah, don't you know. So is it just me, or is this editor grinding a very large axe? --Calton | Talk 14:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe they did, but since they are stiull alive we can't say so unless it can be proven by reference to reliable secondary sources. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 14:17, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Local newspaper article about folding bicycles
You're interested in the Brompton Bicycle, right? I saw this article in my local newspaper about folding bicycles in the United States, and I thought you might be interested in the article. Apparently, sales here are on an upswing.

I don't think I'm going to leave my mountain bike behind just yet, though. --Elkman - (Elkspeak) 14:56, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Hey, thanks - the picture shows a guy running with a Brom, I prefer to ride them :-) Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 16:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Re: Rear_Window_Captioning_System
Did you close this as a speedy keep, or just delete your nomination? --Porqin 19:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Bit of both. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 20:40, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Rouge Admins
The cabal is trying to delete the rouge admin category. Your input, as one of the category's creators, is requested. --M @ r ē ino 19:19, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * If they do I will climb the Reichstag dressed as Spider-Man. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 20:40, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Or you could just go there as an ordinary visitor—saves the trouble of climbing. It’s open daily 0800–0000. Of course, that would be not much of a protest. —xyzzyn 21:46, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Where's the fun in that? Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 22:07, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Deletion review/Log/2006 August 10
Accusations of vandalism for good-faith deletion nominations and plainly in-process deletion, along with copious brand new user involvement, harden my heart Wow, really good reason to retain it's deletion. I suppose you haven't even bothered to READ the evidence that claims that the project exists and is released; by the contrary, of course, if that article is permanently deleted, I guarantee that many other articles such as Duke Nukem Forever which should be deleted under the Exact Same Pretex will also go up for deletion. <font size="1" face="Verdana">Ameise -- chat 19:18, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * So I'm a bad person. If the arguments for keeping were not good enough the solution was to bring better arguments, not to get all your friends to come along and make the same arguments all over again. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 20:21, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * They came on their own, I had nothing to do with that; in fact, I told them NOT to make accounts and vote. We have better arguments, however, I cannot stop it if the people who are doing the deleting completely IGNORE mine and other arguments FOR it. There is absolutely NO Wikipedia regulation under which the article should been deleted -- it IS notable (LucasArts, Sony Online Entertainment, Slashdot, etc, all acknowledge it's existance), it IS a released product (released in early July), and it does in fact exist (I think I have proven that). So, as far as I am concerned, anyone who completely denies that those things are true, and continues the deletion process, is in fact a vandal. <font size="1" face="Verdana">Ameise -- chat 20:38, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * In fact, the people who support the delete, including yourself, have absolutely no arguments in favor of a deletion, except 'it is not notable', which is entirely untrue, and which I have disproved numerous times. <font size="1" face="Verdana">Ameise -- chat 20:56, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Think we haven't it all before? There is no deadline, we can wait until it's at least out of beta. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 22:37, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I changed the header above. -- ADNghiem501 23:53, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Good lord
Look at all the meatpuppets. It kind of reminds me of AfD but not. Whispering(talk/c) 22:40, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * You callin' me a meatpuppet? <font size="1" face="Verdana">Ameise -- chat 23:26, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Nope can't say I am. Whispering(talk/c) 23:45, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I did a pre-emptive semi of your user page, pls revert if you disagree but IMHO it was indicated. KillerChihuahua?!? 23:31, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Automotive failures afd
A large part of what you removed has been re-added. diff Viridae Talk 12:09, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh and I apologise for the horribly typo ridden edit summary. I am cold tired and my brain is numb from trying to work out BLAST. Viridae Talk 12:14, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think those comments aid mature discussion, I've removed them again. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 12:57, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

User:Wiarthurhu
I've taken the liberty of extending your block on Wiarthurhu to 1 week. I hope this does not come across as critical at all of your actions. I just feel he's gone too far and is testing our patience. Its time for stronger measures to try to get the message across to him. If this does not succeed, I am willing to propose a community ban to remove him from Wikipedia permanently. Best, Gwernol 16:14, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * No problem. The guy's being an arse and richly deserves it. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 16:33, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I have restored it per the German Userbox solution, and put in the redirection to where the template code is now, safe on userspace. Crazyswordsman 03:38, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 12:59, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Hillman/Dig
Hi, you might be interested in this MfD which is a consequence of threats by User:Tim Smith and User:DrL to have me blocked, subsequent to the recent deletion review on CTMU in which we both participated. (I think they have misread the relevant policies.) ---CH 23:42, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Discussed at WP:AN and elsewhere, thanks. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 12:59, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Gastrich?
created Robert Morey. (someone on or about) 24:00, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I deleted the repost, but I don't think this is actually Gastrich. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:29, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Recognition

 * Thanks! Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 13:06, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Acadame North
I respect your opinion but I do not agree, I am not doing this in 'Vanity' as you stated [please view wikipedia's personnel attacks policy] I am writing these articles for Socialism! You would not be here today if the glorious red army did not march in to Berlin in WW2, Do not disgrace Josip Broz Tito his Partisans Freed us! Acadame North honors that! You are acting like a Fascist! Do you no why Capitalism has failed? The League of Communists in Yugoslavia maintained a Orthodox religious community, loyal to god and their nation! Shame on you —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Acadamenorth (talk • contribs) 21:26, July 31, 2006.
 * Responded somewhere, can't remember where. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 11:47, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I would not call putting the word 'glorious' in an article vandalism don’t worry I am writing user names down so in the event I do get blocked I can send a nice long email. Please don’t give me those links I really don’t care about those policies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Acadamenorth (talk • contribs)
 * You might not, others do. I know you don't care about policy, that is why you are a problem. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 13:58, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Lindsey German image
Hi JzG

Sorry you have been dragged into this stupidity. I will fill you in on the background.

The User “JK the unwise” is a long standing member of the Community Party of Great Britain. This group is characterised by its extreme sectarianism towards other groups on the left. JK has an obsession with Lindsey German. In July 2005 he travelled up to the Make Poverty History Rally in Scotland with a camera and proceeded to take as many pictures of Lindsey German and her partner John Rees as he could possibly fit on his memory card. People thought he was an undercover cop until I explained he was from the CPGB. Please have a look at the history page on the John Rees article to see the image he has been trying to upload for the last year and you will get some idea of JK’s agenda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Rees_%28UK_politician%29&diff=66274898&oldid=66274544

I do not bother to talk to JK because he is not serious and will simply try and pretend he is being reasonable. All he cares about is posting unflattering images of people whose politics he hates with a passion. It is sad but such is the nature of the CPGB.

Don’t waste your time trying to reason with him. He has only one agenda. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fashion1 (talk • contribs)
 * Monitoring the article. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 21:05, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually there is nothign wrong with the picture. It shows the subject with two notable associates at a notable event, and it's on Commons rather than being an unfree image.  Why do you have such a problem with it? Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 00:41, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Re: Fast work :-)
I try my best :) — FireFox  ( talk ) 12:29, 03 August '06
 * Ready for archiving Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 08:35, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Various things
A bunch of things at once:


 * 1) From above: you would be hard- pressed to actually find instances of non-fringe Jewish organizations accusing someone only for criticizing the country No, non-fringe Jewish organizations and/or their supporters first apply a heay coating of rationalizations to explain why the people they're name-calling are just crtiticizing Israel. See "New anti-semitism, a favorite recent rhetorical club.


 * 2) Socfan: it's one thing to conclude that a brand-new user from the same country as a banned user, who only has posted during times that the banned user has been blocked, is not, in fact, the banned user. But it's another thing to use language which is complete bollocks, like I think we all recognise was unfairly tarred with the Socafan brush. One, I'm not convinced; two, it was a reasonable suspicion -- note also his Socafan-like singling me out for "censoring" him, when I was the THIRD editor who had reverted him in the trolling he complained about -- go check the history); three, using loaded anguage like "tarred" is, frankly, insulting. If you want make nice to new editor, try to do so without hitting others in your backblast.


 * 3) Tchadienne: He's evading his ban, posting on my Talk page to drum up support for his edits to The Guardian. Apparently, he believes I'm an enemy of yours AND an admin (I'd also appreciate an immediate unblocking of my account), the latter despite the clear message at the top of the page. FWIW, I think his edits to page are also complete bollocks, so he's going to have to look elsewhere.

Sorry for the multiple subjects.
 * Addressed at Talk for The Guardian and elsewhere. Thanks Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 12:58, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

your opinion sought at WP:LIST talk
I've made a proposal here, and am seeking feedback. Best,--Anthony Krupp 14:09, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Will look when back in the UK Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 12:59, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Question
Why is linking to Wikipedia from your own website considered spam? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.50.86.162 (talk • contribs)
 * It isn't. Linking from Wikipedia to your own website is considered spam.  See WP:SPAM and WP:EL. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 09:19, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Hyles

 * has returned and started making Hyles edits. User removed all notice of the ongoing Requests for comment/Vivaldi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.163.100.197 (talk • contribs)
 * Diffs? Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 22:12, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Church, reply to you

A delicate issue
How does one approach an editor whose English may be poor, and who appears to be taking material from somewhere (or writing it) and running through a machine translator? This isn't a handful of articles to clean up, it's dozens. . Editor is clearly well-meaning, but none of these are readable English. They look like babelfish results. Fan-1967 22:40, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Happycat RFD
I opened an RFD on Happycat earlier. You may be interested in commenting (or acting) on it. &mdash;ptk✰fgs 08:24, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

EditGrid AfD
I have added a few external references on EditGrid to demonstrated that it "has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the company itself" in compliance with WP:SOFTWARE (which, as at the current version, no longer mentions the requirement on innovation, incidentally). I believe these should suffice to make the article notable for Wikipedia. Please take a look there again when you have time. Thanks. --Pkchan 15:04, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Reviewed. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 20:23, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Would like to let you know that I have added a few more references to EditGrid after your review. You may be interested to take a look there, as well as the re-listed AfD.  --Pkchan 10:43, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Email
FYI, I've sent you an email. JoshuaZ 22:27, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Uninterruptible power supply
Where does WP:EL say "don't link personal sites"? --Pmsyyz 00:16, 12 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Personal sites are not reliable sources and have no authority. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 09:57, 12 August 2006 (UTC)


 * That may be true for references, but not External links. --Pmsyyz 17:22, 12 August 2006 (UTC)


 * To be fair WP:EL does indeed say "Links normally to be avoided ... 2. Any site that contains factually inaccurate material or unverified original research, as detailed in Reliable sources". However I think the link in question is probably ok for the article. Thanks/wangi 17:25, 12 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The purpose of WP:EL is not to be exclusive, it's to list the things which might be acceptable for inclusion. This is not on the list of things acceptable for inclusion.  I like to see a compelling reason for keeping a link to a personal site.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 17:43, 12 August 2006 (UTC)


 * It's not exactly a "personal site".  says that it's a group work with contributions from many people (not unlike Wikipedia in that respect :-); there's also a disclaimer that opinions are those of the present maintainer, who holds the copyright.  Most of it seems to be technical, factual, and useful to readers who need further information.  It looks to me to be covered by WP:EL point 4: Sites that contain neutral and accurate material . . . [which are] copyright [or have] a level of detail which is inappropriate for the Wikipedia article. -- JimR 07:03, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

wavelet.biz
Wavelet.biz should not be deleted

It is an establish project at sourceforge.net, mature and used by more than 100 companies in asia....

check this out http://sourceforge.net/projects/enterprise

cheers

Please check this out ALSO http://www.google.com.sg/search?hl=en&q=%22wavelet.biz%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta= —Preceding unsigned comment added by leehongfay (talk • contribs)


 * Please remember to sign your posts. Sourceforge is open to everybody, presence on Sourceforge is not evidence of notability.  See WP:CORP and WP:SOFTWARE for applicable guideliones; do nto remove AfD notices form articles; writing about yourself or your company is a bad idea. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 09:56, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

destroying content in CMS System review
Please do NOT remove listing from relevent vendors in the CMS comparison lists. You had deleted the entry for ADXSTUDIO, which is a relevent player in the WebCMS marketspace. They attend many CMS and Microsoft tradeshows, are an AIIM member, a Microsoft Gold Certified Partner, and are on all relevent CMS portals. They have been in business for more than 8 years, and have a recent product that is still very relevent to the market. When you delete CMS vendors from the list, you are destroying the value of the content for all other readers.

I also noticed that you deleted ONLY the ADXSTUDIO listing, yet Ektron CMS 400 is also redlinked, but you did not delete them. This leads me to believe that you have ulterior motives and are not using appropriate editorial discretion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shan mcarthur@spamcop.net (talk • contribs)


 * As you have been told before, linking to your own company's products is considered spamming. Those lists do not include redlinks, only significant products with articles.  You have also been told before that removing non-articles from this list is not "destroying content".  And you'vebeen told before that edit warring over your addition of content relating to your own company is bad. All in all I can't imagine why you would want to draw wider attention to your actions here. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know?

Thanks
Hi JzG, I just wanted to thank you for your comments on the talk page of my RfA. NOBS/Tchadienne was really creating problems, and thank you for standing up for me. — Mets 501  (If responding, please do so on my talk page) 13:38, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Requests for arbitration/Israel-Lebanon
Hello,

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Requests for arbitration/Israel-Lebanon. Please add evidence to the evidence sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Israel-Lebanon/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Israel-Lebanon/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, --Tony Sidaway 19:01, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

User talk:Acadamenorth
Me again. The autoblock has returned after a week or so of not returning. You know the drill. Mad Jack 20:18, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
 * You really need to either unblock this guy or do something else. It's grossly unfair that I keep getting blocked. I refuse to continue like this. Mad Jack 06:18, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Deletion of personal sub-pages
Reference Sinstar. I thought that personal sub-pages were exactly that - personal.

There were no links to it from article pages - only links were from my talk. So why it was deleted is a mystery to me. What gain except a couple thousand bytes of storage? What is the point? Not that it was an important article, and I probably should have removed myself, but why didn't you get my response 'before deletion?

Incidentally, the article was stored like that since it was a fangirl written piece that resulted in an amazing discussion regarding deletion that ended up driving the writer away from Wikipedia. (My talk with her has also been saved in my talk archives.) She had done a thorough job but the controversy was regarding the nebulous issue of "notability", which had no decent guidance on definition other than consensus. The debate got unnecessarily acrimonious. The article was reasonably supportable and well written. Wikipedia lost a potential enthusiastic editor with clear writing ability over this and I felt it was a example of one of the weaknesses of wikipedia.

wcf <font color="660000" size="1">Facts are stubborn. Comments? Originally posted 08/14/2006 - check history if you question this.wcf <font color="660000" size="1">Facts are stubborn.


 * Is there a reason you have not replied to the above?
 * wcf <font color="660000" size="1">Facts are stubborn. Comments? 04:08, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes. I have been away in the States for a week and haven't yet recovered from jet-lag, I caught up with some things before others.
 * User sub-pages are not personal any more than any other page on Wikipedia. Nobody owns them.  Articles moved to user space after result of deletion debates can be kept for a while but in the end they have to be either fixed or removed, because Wikipedia is not a free web host.  We allow users to sday something about themselves on their user page because although Wikipedia is not a social networking site there is a degree of social networking between editors and using user space to facilitate communication between them, within certain limits, seems to help to build the encyclopadia.  I regret the departure of any Wikipedian (although my definition of Wikipeidan does not include those who come here to push a barrow), and AfD is not a great place some of the time, but in the end fanpages generally get deleted.  It's not about notability, it's about verifiability from reliable secondary sources.  Fanpieces are no different from novel interpretations of historical events in this respect: Wikipedia is not a publisher of first instance.  If you want to fix up the article or need the text to take to your own website there are plenty of admins - including me - who will gladly facilitate that, but consensus deleted content is to be deleted, not moved to some place where it gets less scrutiny.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 11:58, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * One of my points was the material was at least partially verifiable, and was deleted as non-notable. I don't care about that article and you were right to delete it under the policy. If you would, you could also clear out some other pages which I have tagged for speedy under owner request. Thanks.____wcf <font color="660000" size="1">Facts are stubborn. Comments? 05:48, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Looking for Support?

 * Hi JzG, I noticed you've done a great job keeping up Comparison of content management systems - I am trying to defend a page for a project that I lead, and request your input on the [discusssion]. Thanks for your time. --Spiderr 23:20, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Feedback requested
At Wikipedia_talk:List_guideline Thanks! --Anthony Krupp 00:01, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Could you please grab me some deleted material
G'day mate, do you reckon you could let us have a squizz at the material that was deleted in this AfD: Articles_for_deletion/Quick_and_the_dead. Don't want to put it up again or nuffin, just got a personal interest in such matters. Cheerz, Drett 03:24, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Requests for arbitration/St Christopher
Hello,

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Requests for arbitration/St Christopher. Please add evidence to the evidence sub-page, Requests for arbitration/St Christopher/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Requests for arbitration/St Christopher/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, --Tony Sidaway 13:01, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Admin coaching
Thanks for signing up as a coach. Your new trainee is Brazucs and your fellow coach is Mysekurity. Once coaching has started please move the relevant entry in the coaching box up to 'Active'. Let me know if you have any questions. Cheers, Petros471 16:04, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

LG15?
I was wondering if we could quash something before it got started again. It seems that the Lonelygirl15 was reposted....again even after it has failed the AfD and nothing new has been added. I was wondering if you could take a look, squash it, then perhaps protect it from being reposted for a while since it seems sockpuppets are the ones reposting it?--<font color="Purple">Brian ( How am I doing? ) 05:11, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Salted by Ohnoitsjamie Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 18:12, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

User:Acadamenorth
Again and again and again, you need to unblock this dude. I can not stress this enough. The autoblock just keeps coming back and back and back and back again. Nothing works. Not clearing the IP, not removing the autoblock as some have tried to do. Nothing. I don't think I want or need to go into a tirade about how grossly unfair and a gross waste of time this whole thing. Just unblock the guy. As for your argument for the block on Academenorth's talk page, the fact is for 7 months there hasn't been a similar incident of a blocked account causing this, only anon IP vandals, which are easier to handle. Unblock. Enough already. Mad Jack 07:54, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


 * JzG, I have just sent you an email about this situation. Jack is understandably annoyed about the situation.  You may not be aware of what is going on so hopefully my email to you will clear things up a bit.  Thanks.  --Yamla 14:27, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


 * This is going to happen any time an AOL user is indef-blocked. I am sure Acadamenorth is not the only cause of this problem. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 17:50, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not AOL, but Cogeco (but that's irrelevant), and the fact that it does happen doesn't mean it should keep happening. Mad Jack 18:12, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Whatever. The point here is that it is the result of a software issue; it will happen again any time an indef-blocked user uses any IP which might be used by any other Wikipedian. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 02:11, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Of course it will. But the fact it, it didn't happen at any point from January until late July. 7 months. That's pretty good. I'm willing to do this twice a year. Anyway, right now I don't think I am autoblocked, but this thing keeps coming back even after long periods of time. Mad Jack 07:10, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
 * You are missing the point. This is an issue which is inherent when any user is indef-blocked.  Indef-blocks are not uncommon these days. If it's not you then it will be someone else. If it's not Acadamenorth then it will be someone else.  The solution is not to unblock persistent vandals, it's to find a way to fix the problem. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 12:09, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

St Christopher's arbitration
Head's up that you forgot to sign your last posting to the arbitration page. Also, please see my comments on the Evidence page including my question whether dispute resolution short of arbitration would make more sense now that ParalelUni is out of the way. The answer may of course be no, that's a decision for you and the other editors on the page, but I'd hate to see a case like this lumbering through ArbCom unnecessarily for months, which might not be helpful to anyone. Most important, I hope you are enjoying your time in America. Regards, Newyorkbrad 19:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 02:10, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

dude, you need to realize this is not about a theology college, its about medical college. i agree with most points you are making, however, I am taking in account the fact that you don't know how the medical education works... Please, i request you to read about the path to medical licensure in United States before doing anything else... there are a lot of safety nets and loop holes to be gone through before medical graduates (foreign) even get to residency programs (and the catch is they are all standardized for internationals and US grads) which answer all the quality assurance qs that anyone has.

The other thing is the accreditation link is posted on my side of the arbitration with Senegalese accreditation and charter verification, please refer to it and change the unaccredited part that was placed by you on the actual article. If not done, i will be forced to muck around with it tomorrow evening for an hr or two, which i really don't want to do.--Vtak 06:53, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


 * As I made plain in the arbitration evidence, the point is very much that this is supposed to be a medical school not some theological college. As such, accreditation actually matters.  Which is why the fact that the GMC specifically lists it as unacceptable, for example, is particularly important.  Your assertion that I don't know how medical education works is problematic.  Actually I do have more idea than the average Joe.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 11:10, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

RfA
Thank you for co-nominating me. I've answered the questions and accepted, and added a comment to this effect underneath yours on lethe's talk page. Stephen B Streater 22:20, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
 * And now the fun starts :-) That's the trouble with offering something for free ;-) Hopefully, I'll get a clear idea of what people need for a video solution here. It's a pity people feel the need to oppose the RfA based effectively on not having the final free video solution in place yet. Stephen B Streater 14:43, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * People have the oddest reasons for supporting or opposing. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 15:24, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I knew I'd be treading on a few toes by fixing up the Wikipedia video issues ;-) Thanks for waiting for the weekend so I could be around to answer some of the wild accusations and insults in my RfA. It seems that some people at Wikipedia have been working on a Java player after all, and in a format which FORscene could easily output. This will save me a lot of work and cost :-) Stephen B Streater 08:15, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm now an admin
I'm now an admin — your user page was been on my watch list for an age now, very much respected, Let me know if I can be of help. Thanks/wangi 00:27, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * w00t! Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 19:40, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

TS guy is back
I put a speedy tag here: TourettesGuy.com. Sandy 02:00, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Quelle surprise. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 15:28, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

?????
Is there a rouge admin but for non-admin. there should be. How you admin get to have all the fun. Think of us commoners too when you sit in your mansion drinking your brandy and eating your caviar.

Culverin 06:36, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I was in a decent hotel, does that count? Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 15:49, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

What ho
Yes, it was very nice meeting you as well, and yes it was too short. Perhaps some day you'll visit again and we can carve out some time. Glad to hear you got back safely! <font face="Times New Roman" color="FF2400">&#0149;Jim <font face="Times New Roman" color="F4C430">62 <font face="Times New Roman" color="000000">sch&#0149; 15:45, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The boss is already making when will you be back noises, so this might well happen. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 15:48, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Prequalified
Could you check out this new article started by WikiWoo, which is just a dictionary word but with a definition which is POV, unverifiable, unsourced, and just plain ridiculous? └ O z L a w y e r  / <sub style="color:black;">talk  ┐ 16:31, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * That's an impressive set of tags it's accumulated :-) Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 17:37, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Redirects
Is there any way to speedy the school and state redirects at Redirects for discussion/Log/2006 August 19? CaliEd 21:54, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I applied a little rouge. It came as no surprise to find that this user's other work includes creating a disparaging category just for Michael Moore, and work on Hyles-Anderson College. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 22:12, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

suspect a sockpuppet of User:SirIsaacBrock
hi, I noted that you were one of the admins that blocked/banned User:SirIsaacBrock. I wanted to bring your attention to User:What123, who I suspect to be a sockpuppet of User:SirIsaacBrock. User:What123 seems to follow the same pattern of edits to articles around the Israel-Arab conflict, depopulating articles relating to abarigional conflicts for Category:Conflicts in Canada, etc... but the diff here (the use of "Cordially" at the end of his comment) is what makes me sure it's him. Are you a good person to come to for my SirIsaacBrock-blocking needs in the future? or should I take this sort of thing over to wp:ani? Thanks in advance and sorry for the trouble. Mike McGregor (Can)
 * 100% sure, Hello JzG, this is an irrefutable sockpuppet of SIB. See this AN post. What123 (talk &bull; contribs &bull; [/wiki/Special:Log/move?user= page moves ] &bull; block user &bull; [/wiki/Special:Log/block?page=User: block log ]) 's edits on Dog, Nazi, Canadian and war topics plus the usage of "Cordially" at the end of his talk page comments makes this a slam dunk closed and shut case. (→ Netscott ) 15:47, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Deja vu all over again
It's baaaaack! Articles for deletion/List of famous members of Mensa (2nd nomination) ... your 2¢ would be appreciated. --Dennette 15:40, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Listcruft-o-rama... Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 17:37, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Arkansas Project
the same guy who waa adding the conspiracy stuff at related webpages has now been hitting Arkansas Project. He claims an author who was part of the activity and the NY Times articles aren't WP:RS. C56C 19:16, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


 * He has started removing material claiming a Washington Post article is not WP:RS because it cites anon. sources. This is tied to Talk:Brett Kavanaugh theory he was seeking to put in. User is made his conspiracy theory won't be included, and is trying to wash other articles that disagree with his point. C56C 20:43, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Now he's removing whole sections of sourced material. C56C 22:08, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Warned. If I don't spot it, let me know of further infractions. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 22:13, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Cabal proposal
Hello JzG. As I am a very sporadic Editor and greatly dislike Barnstars and do everything I can to keep my head down (without great success lately), I am never in on any Cabals. I know there are Cabals because User:Essjay talks about them so much. So I was thinkin, maybe we could have an J(x)G cabal?. Cabal usernames must be J-any letter-G. Are you down with it? JDG 23:39, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Count me in ;) J(David D.)G (Talk) 23:56, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

removal of links
I noticed you removed several links like http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Psalms&diff=prev&oldid=71156720 saying that they were polemical. I don't see how they are controversial as the transalation and the commentary or Rashi is one of the most accepted in Judaism. I have readded those links. --PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€  12:43, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I have a major problem with links in non-Judaism articles to a site which supports a minority Jewish view, as well as carrying strong political opinions. Commentaries on Christian subjects from politicised Jewish sites are unnecessary.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 13:05, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

WikiDiscussion Manager
Hi - what version of WDM were you having a login problem with? I've moved your comment at User:Eagle_101/WikiDiscussion_Manager/Features to User:Eagle_101/WikiDiscussion_Manager/Bugs to reflect the nature of it. Please could you reply there? Thanks -- M  a  rtinp23  15:27, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * 0.8.14. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 22:13, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Essay
I haven't written an essay yet. Someone suggested I write an essay about video issues on Wikipedia (perhaps after my RfA when I have more time). Do you have any tips? And would be interested in casting your eye over it before it goes live? Stephen B Streater 22:24, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I write essays to illustrate interpretations of policy. A user subpage about the video issue might clarify mtters, though. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 22:51, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Tendentious editing
I thank you for introducing me to a new word: precis, although aren't you using a noun as a verb in your essay (at least, according to the Wiktionary entry, it's a noun). └ O z L a w y e r  / <sub style="color:black;">talk  ┐ 01:24, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. I have always assumed it is allowed as an adverb, but you may be right.  My usage of English is notoriously poor.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 01:39, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh come, your usage of English is nothing of the sort. People with bad English don't usually write essays for fun. =) └  O z L a w y e r  / <sub style="color:black;">talk  ┐ 15:39, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Vandalism Fad & British Shorthair
I think you really need to talk to User:Voice_of_All about semi-protection for British Shorthair. Every time you have semi-protected the page, VoA removes it. --Targetter <tt style="color:#900;">(Lock On)</tt> 02:03, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * No, it's fine. VoA unprotects articles when they've been protected for a while, if the idiots return then they get protected again, if they don't then no problem.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 11:03, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Page at User:Josh west
I see you deleted the page, which is fine (CSD-U2), but how did you figure this as an attack page? has reverted to and reposted edits by. Gimmetrow 13:29, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Might be a misreading, but I have a crush on this girl in my class name rachel and this other girl name hunter.I also have this disorder that keeps me hyper 24/7 sounded a bit like the usual sophomoric nonsense. Rereading it, maybe not.  But either way I think no loss. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 13:54, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

persistent hostility
JzG, I see that you are an admin involved in bio of living persons. We are having a long-term problem with one editor who has seized the Haley Barbour page (using several IP addresses or his User:Cortez3100) and insists on removing a neutral, sourced passage regarding the 2003 campaign and re-inserting his own POV which ultimately concludes that the governor is guilty of "race baiting tactics." At least five different editors have returned the article to the more nuetral version over the past several weeks, and each time he reverts back to his own POV, to include obviously false remarks in the edit summary (like "reverting POV attack"), or adding nasty, flamethrower remarks against other editors to the talk page. He has been asked numerous times to be civil, and adhere to to NPOV, which he patently refuses to do. I considered leaving another warning on his talk page, but think it'd be better if you could intervene at this point. --Alsayid 16:27, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I've made some suggestions at Talk:Haley Barbour. Please pitch in. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 16:42, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

On deletion
Re: your comments at User_talk:Badlydrawnjeff. I agree that Afd is a problem. The solution that seems best to me might be seen as terrible by some people, but what I think we really need is more people deleting things more easily, with or without a specific criterion for speedy deletion. Admin discretion is what we use in real life, and the various CSDs are IMO a poor attempt to make it look like there are specific, rigid rules about what is or isn't a proper deletion. I'd be happy to see them go away entirely. Ideally we're use Afd only when there appears to be reasonable disagreement over the deletion. I already do this in practice, on new pages patrol, simply by deleting whatever I think we're better off without. Don't know if you've ever read about pure wiki deletion or the various experimental deletion methods, but those were attempts to move things in the right direction, IMO, as was prod. Anyway, just some food for thought. Friday (talk) 16:43, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually I agree. PROD was supposed to achieve this, but didn't because it allows anyone to dispute deletion.  Fundamentally, we have to have AfD as a way of handling contested deletions.  Fundamentally, too, the problem is the volume of crap, since when the volume goes down (as it did in the early days after anon creation was stopped) people have more time to reflect.  Maybe breaking the AfD page into hourly segments would help, I don't know.  But the truth is we are all to blame for the problem, and there is no "them" to fix it.  Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 16:55, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I think it'd be reasonable to put further restrictions on who can make a new article. But this may be a foundation issue that simply cannot change.  We could think about some new article holding area where someone else has to agree that it's worth having in order to move to article space, but this might be overly-elaborate in terms of required software changes AND process.  Who knows.  Anyway if there's yet-another-Afd-reformation attempt sometime, I'd be interested in throwing in my two cents also.  Friday (talk) 17:05, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Rogueness needed at Diana Irey
An anon IP (keeps change) has made continued POV edits at Diana Irey (a canidate for the 2006 election). I posted it two days ago at the [WP:AN/I]], and contacted the user on his/her talk page and the article talk page. user keeps inserting tags (one that she is an ongoing election), one that the controversial interview was an ad. If you look at the page history this anon. has violated WP:OWN. An IP of this range has been watching over this for over a month making POV edits, and reverting other people's good natured improvements. C56C 22:09, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I semi-protected it to stop the edit war, the anon should register an account and engage properly. Try asking for a third opinion if you can persuade them to register. Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy you know? 22:18, 23 August 2006 (UTC)