User talk:K. Lastochka/Archive 1

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I uploaded that pic to the sandbox....didn't think I had to go through any official stuff there...K. Lastochka 22:41, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Welcome
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And i surely hope that you'll get my joke about Turkmenbashi one day :) --Amir E. Aharoni 23:21, 24 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Shalom Amir, I was pretty sure it was a joke but just wanted to make sure. :) I have Turkmen friend who has several times had his life nearly wrecked by that maniac, so it's a slightly sensitive topic for me. K. Lastochka 22:40, 25 May 2006 (UTC)


 * If your friend can get on Wikipedia and write some stuff about Turkmenistan, it would be great. I'm very curious about this country and its history and language, and not just because of the crazy dictatorship, but information is very hard to find. --Amir E. Aharoni 06:58, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately he doesn't really have the time. :( K. Lastochka 15:29, 26 May 2006 (UTC) One thing he did tell me about Turkmenistan is that before the fall of the USSR, Ashgabat was the third-most cosmopolitan city in the whole USSR, a big, vibrant city with people of all sorts of ethnic backgrounds, and as much of a cultural center as is possible in Central Asia. :) First was Moscow, he said, then Baku, then Ashgabat. It's really sad what has happened to that poor little country. K. Lastochka 16:52, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

hi, i am new to Wiki, I really want to talk to you guys, especially lastochka, but i do not know how, can you guy help me out by telling me how to sign up and how you guy communicate in real time if ever so, just leave a message under my message right here, thanks---Tamdir

Hi (or is it "salam"?) Tamdir, this is not a good place to communicate (after all, this is my archive), so I messaged you on your talk page here. K. Lásztocska 01:48, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Central Asia
WikiProject Central Asia has finally been created! If you're interested, please consider joining us. Aelfthrytha 21:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Neat, I'll drop in occasionally! :) K. Lastochka 02:32, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Salam Lastochka! Thanks for your message. Yeah, I joined to Central Asia project and do some small edits on articles. You may have noticed that my English is not good, so I'd appreciate if you help me with it :) --Atamyrat 21:14, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

1956
And a hearty jó napot to you too... I am 100% in agreement that 56 should be up as feature on 10/23 (or any time during late October), and the AID is the critical path for this. Thanks for putting out the word, but it seems we are stuck at 21 for right now. Maybe contacting each of the Hungarians that hang out on the Hungarian pages? Ive done a few with mixed success... And please dont feel the need to explain or apologise for ethnicity (sorry if Im not catching a joke, but this IS email really) You are welcome on this side of the barricade as russian, czech, magyar, or whatever.Istvan 19:42, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I WAS basically joking about the awkwardness my Russian username--I've only recently found out that I'm (very little) part Magyar and all my email/internet/whatever else stuff is all Russian. I'm just multicultural, I guess. :) Anyway, there is a whole list of "Wikipedians in Hungary" that I stumbled across, maybe we can bother some of them. Only if they write back in Hungarian, they're officially YOURS to deal with....csak egy kicsit beszelék magyarul. :) K. Lastochka 21:56, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi,

Thanks for notifying me about that voting. (This English wikipedia is so huge and complicated that I just can't keep my eye on all the pages where a vote would be needed :)) We recently started to use our noticeboard at Hungarian Wikipedians' notice board, if you have any Hungary-related thing to say, you can post it there. I already notified them about the voting. BTW it's a big shame but the Hungarian Wikipedia's article about the revolution is hardly more than a stub at this moment, it is more likely that we'll expand the HuWiki article from that of EnWiki than vice versa... we just realized yesterday that we'll have to work on it a lot in the next few weeks :) – Alensha    talk  13:12, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi Lastochka, An idea - if you are connected to Czech wiki or Czech groups then please ask for their votes for 1956, and extend our support for Prague Spring in 2008 - I will certainly vote for it when the time comes, and Im sure they'd be willing to vote for 56 if they knew it was up. BTW, quite an impressive jump today - good work to you and Alensha! Istvan 21:01, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

No kidding! and I hope this Hungarian Revolution thing doesnt morph into more current event than historical reference. Thanks for the promotion BTW - your promotion and Ryanjo's editing are great helps in putting 56 up as feature on 23 Oct. Istvan 16:06, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations on the AID victory! and thanks for the barnstar too.Istvan 02:20, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Szívesen. (that's "you're welcome") and egeségedre (close analog to "cheers" in the US sense). I purposely only gave those to people who were not already awarded one from you (it would look odd) it is up to you to do as you choose. I was thinking that the first thing we should do is to archive all the old discussion and start the discussion page with a clean slate. Although the article is not in good shape, it is much better now than it was two or three weeks ago - we should remember to recognise those who have put their hearts into it. Also, please dont expect a mass influx of attention - the AID response is often underwhelming, though we may be suprised (its amazing what a small group of dedicated people can do). Still, this is the nominal process to take towards feature status. Istvan 15:59, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, but could I make a suggestion? that the very last bits from the previous discussion (now in the archive) be retained; I would suggest at a minimum NCurse's comments, and at a maximum everything below "50-years old echo" - These are still somewhat topical. (I certainly dont want to seem to be reverting your edits, especially that I recommended...)Istvan 17:57, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

OK, its done without reverting.

Re: 1956 revolution article
Generally, the introduction should be a ~3-paragraph overview/summary of the entire article. While it doesn't have to go into too much detail, it should be pretty understandable if read alone (without the remainder of the article). Kirill Lokshin 18:12, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Hello Lastochka, I think to go from AID to FA(C) we need lots of tidying up and especially more photos (lots of them). Its too early to put this up for FA right now, but I think by the time you hear back from the HA re: copyright and can put up the photos, then it will be ready. Istvan 01:44, 2 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the compliment - yes, its coming along very nicely, and yes, it was a big pile of garbage a few months ago but the credit goes to all, and especially to Ryanjo for starting the process - putting it into the shape of a real article. What is remarkable - compared to about a year ago, is how much progress has occurred with so little discord. Still, - ne igyál elõre...
 * I think it should go up as FAC right away. As for the photos, we cant wait for them anymore - the clock will kill us, and if we can somehow swing it during the review process, then it will certainly be almost as good.
 * The main thing now besides the photos, is the unevenness of the references. Ironically, they are only appearing during the main body and are not repeated in the summaries of the top - I dont know if this is good form or not, Im sure we're about to find out... Istvan 22:02, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Re: our new-and-improved 56 article
Very nice! I think the major concerns from the peer review have been resolved now; the only remaining points I can see are the title of the article and the large template at the bottom, and those are both fairly minor. I would suggest submitting this to the A-Class review, and, once that passes, moving on to FAC. Kirill Lokshin 14:08, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the barnstar :) (Sorry that I'm late, I just noticed it because I hardly ever watch my own user page :D) love, Alensha    talk  16:23, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

OK, we're up for peer review and Ive asked Kirill to give us a re-rate on the MilHist (so we dont have to overload the FAC nomination with caveats and give antihungarians an easy target). Question to you - what can we do to help the peer review request along? I intend to do more copyediting/streamlining but need your help with the photos - (creating the 56 barnstar illustrates the limits of my graphics abilities) Thanks!Istvan 19:08, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Szia, Ncurse, the freshly minted Hungarian admin, wrote back regarding the 56 pics (its on my talk page)
 * "Hi! Of course, I'll try to help you in that wonderful task. So I've contacted with some admins on IRC, and they've agreed with me about the tag: Template:CopyrightedFreeUseProvidedThat, with the exact source and an e-mail address. And we should send a new mail to the owner of that page to inform him about these images. I hope it helps. NCurse work 06:38, 9 October 2006 (UTC)"

So, this looks like a green light to me. Do you see anything wrong with using them? Istvan 07:06, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi L, there is a page on the commons called "Hungarian Revolution of 1956" that contains all the ones I uploaded plus all the Newspaper front page Images. Could you please link your uploads there so we have them all in one spot? Dont worry about axeing Konev - Im not cyring for him. He was just a placeholder, and the only remarkable thing about the photo is how he resembles Rkosi. Istvan 19:00, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I am as frustrated about it as you - perhaps a statement "reminder: 1956 was a revolution, not a species of tree frog, nor a video game, nor someone's bus stop". Emotion is prerequisite to revolution. Washing it out is censorship. To force a moral equivalency upon unarmed demonstrators on one hand, and those who would fire upon them with heavy weapons on the other is both wrong and factually incorrect. To describe 56 without reference to emotion is like describing Monet without reference to colour. Perhaps there should be a new guideline "56:rev". How to overcome this? Every Hungarian must vote "strong support", lobby every wikipedian they know, and mention, in their own words, that 56 was a very bloody revolution and the strong emotions were a very real cause of it: the ÁVH *was* hated, people *did* dissapear under Rákosi (often on the flimsiest of pretenses), the phrase "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" *was* indeed used, and often. And to top it off, this is all mentioned in the referenced UN report that nobody seems to read. To ignore these is to ignore the event itself. Im preaching to the choir, I know... Istvan 04:36, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Hungary portal
I was wondering, would you be interested in working with me on Portal:Hungary? It's nice to see you love Hungary this much :) It is now updated every second week only, and I don't know how frequently are other portals updated, but I'm sure the popular portals are updated more often... Right now I'm the only maintainer of it, because every other Hungarian editor was just too happy to leave it to me :) but maybe the two of us could update it weekly. – Alensha    talk  16:30, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi,

It would be enough if you could contribute to the portal every two weeks, I would do it for the other 2 weeks, then it would have weekly updates, like most of the portals. Then we could also ask our very first Hungarian admin to help making that "currentweek" system, then we could make the selected articles in advance and it would update automatically and would help archiving the previous updates (I don't really know how that system works...)

About politics: I long decided it's not worth worrying about, I only vote at local elections and there I vote for the candidate who could do the most for the city, without caring about which party he belongs to... :D

– Alensha    talk  17:33, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I used to vote for Fidesz too but now they're allied with KDNP, a far too right-wing ultra-religious party, and in my opinion Fidesz managed to alienate many of its former supporters... now there are simply no good parties to vote for. >:-( – Alensha    talk  18:30, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

They have to, because MSZP is allied with SZDSZ and together they have more voters than Fidesz, and Fidesz had to look for some party to be allied with. Now, at the local elections I haven't even seen "Fidesz candidates", only "Fidesz-KDNP candidates". I don't know much about politics but this should be forbidden that minor parties stick to the large ones and in the end they are the ones who decide the outcome of an election... like that anarchist SZDSZ would be nowhere without MSZP, KDNP would be nothing without Fidesz, and these alliances do nothing but keep these stupid small parties important. – Alensha    talk  18:38, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

and Fidesz was a liberal party at the beginning, and they're becoming more and more conservative. I'm too young to be conservative yet :D – Alensha    talk  18:39, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with that :) btw I guess on HuWiki we would already have been warned about all this politics talk; it's lucky that EnWiki admins don't keep an eye on everything :D – Alensha    talk  18:43, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

My RfA
You're welcome. :) Have you uploaded the images to Commons? What about FAC? I'm a reviewer of Wikipedia Release Version team, I can take a serious look at the article, when you plan to nominate it. NCurse work 18:55, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

FAC involvement
Hi! I rewritten my support vote, but I don't see why I would have to be an involved editor to say that it is great (and also seeing its original state I could say "it has become"). Anyway I didn't write on the FAC page that I was an involved editor as I didn't actually edit the article (not that I remember), I am proud that I found the Time cover for it and permission to use some newspaper covers (now on commons, that were'nt used as theye are in Hungarian, and thanks to you there are many, more informative pictures in the article), but I don't feel ashamed or anything because I didn't edit the article itself, as with no actual involvement in the events (maybe my grandparents), not seeing any films about it (and even if I have they still would have been fiction), not learning about it in school yet, not reading any books or reports about it, and with the Hungarian article (that I could have translated text from) wasn't in such a good shape, I just didn't feel that I could add anything to it apart from my moral support and technical suggestions (for ex. here). Hope you understand, and you don't see this as me rejecting my connection to this article by not stating that I am an involved editor in it, but as not stating a lie, though if you (really, really )feel that it wouldn't be stating a lie, I would really be a happy person "running" to the FAC page telling the whole world that I was an editor on that article.--Dami 12:01, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Szervusz Lastochka, yes, its tilting our way. I hope the vote is soon, because Ive been "warned" to have all our AHF pics deleted from the commons. Do you know of a plan B? Either a different tag or hosting on the EnWiki itself? Ive put out some pleas for help, but alas.... It would really suck if those were yanked right before the vote. BTW, Paul keeps saying the UN doc ref doesnt work for him - it works for me, what about you? Istvan 02:07, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

WE'RE FA!!!!! pop the pezsgõ !!! lets get our nom up! Istvan 20:59, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the barstar award. I appreciate it, and accept it with gratitude and humility, though I'm a latecomer to this effort. It is User:Istvan, and User:Ryanjo who have been laboring away at this article for a very long time. I'm glad they put it up for AID, or I wouldn't have noticed it. Congratulations to all!--Paul 22:40, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

FA for 23 October
Well we'd better get our nom up immediately. I notice some noms mention (in the nominating text) a requested date for feature. Since 23 October is the very next one to be chosen, I would suggest to put up Paul's version of the textbox, and a version of my text as the nom article (which includes the ref to 50th anniversary, bravest act, etc.) (please see NCurse's request to Raul654 - it worked) just keep it coolheaded. Would you like to do the honours this time? Paul? Ryanjo? First one gets it. I dont want to hog these things. If nobody has put something up in one hour, I will do it. Istvan 21:14, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Hey KL, take a look at the queue now... :) Istvan 04:43, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Barnstar of St. Stephen
Many thanks for the barnstar and kind words. Your enthusiasm, tact and wit comes through in the words of Hungarian Revolution of 1956. Regards, Ryanjo 00:07, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

And thank you from me too! That was quite a coordinated effort! To have made so much progress with so little conflict is remarkable (lets all remember the lessons of Muhi and not celebrate too early) KL, your passion, brains and drive have been decisive in our success. Istvan 01:11, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Userboxes
Your boxes are nice too :) Why don't you put them in Babelbox templates so that they will be under each other, not scattered around on the page? :) – Alensha   talk  19:02, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

just like you did with the language boxes. check the source of my userbox page to see. :) – Alensha   talk  19:12, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Trolling
Please first take it easy. :) It happens really often in wiki. Second, I try to join the debate by sending a message to the Jacob Peter user. Hope it helps. Anyway this kind of editing (not vandalism) must always be handled by community dynamics. You have to explain why he is wrong with his edits. Then if he continues, you can contact other admins. That's the best way to walk on. NCurse work 06:03, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Budapest
This might be a better place for this kind of talk: You might be right in that that the police is a bit harsh, but from here its just a POV: Anyway the point is that Hungary is a bit divided now, and things won't get better in my opinion if either radical change doesn't happen (MDF or MIÉP winning an election) or the protesters won't get bored or too cold on the streets. Also if you want to get a full picture see these pictures:
 * the protesters didn't get permission for protesting anywhere else but the Kossuth square so after leaving it you might argue that the police had the right to "read the riot act" ,also after being chased out of K. square they could have just gone home or they had the right to protest on the streets
 * when this all started there were about 200 injured policemen (about two weeks ago) that has led them to be a bit more radical
 * also one could argue that order has to be kept (see Death of a president film, how the American police deals with protesters)
 * also I would argue that whatever Gyurgyáncs have commited or might have commited or didn't commit isn't reason good enough to disturb the commemoration events
 * http://index.hu/gal?dir=0610/belfold/lefoglalt/ - weapons found in Kossuth square after protesters left (some are camping equipment (that can be used as weapons, not too safe near the delegations), but some are undenyable weapons)
 * http://index.hu/gal?dir=0610/belfold/okt23_3/ - people shot by rubber bullets and such
 * http://index.hu/politika/belfold/2006/elkurtuk/galeriak/ various other pictures

--Dami 18:56, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Anyway, If you'd like I could provide you with semi-real time commentary based on Index.hu-s reporting if you'd like.--Dami 19:01, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I didn't think you were, I was just trying to illustrate that it can be seen from two sides, and neither is an utopistic view (the people are rioting for truth vs. order and peace is kept according to the rules of democracy). I mentioned Miép as earlier Csurka(their leader) said that both Gyurcsány and Orbán should leave the political palette.

About this whole thing I'm just sad, as it totally ruins Hungarys reputation in the sense that it has been peaceful and stabil in the region... also I'm not a fan of Gyurcsánys "packet" but these protest also have a negative effect on the economy and I fear this will make things worse.--Dami 19:20, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Re: Mancs
Yes, I know :( We already added the info to the articles (I learned about his death in Hungarian Wkipedia...) – Alensha   talk  20:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

his statue in the downtown is surrounded by candles... people loved him so much. – Alensha   talk  16:13, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

thanks you
dear friend, nice to find some nice people in wikipedia, my work in hungarian and slovak wikipedia is a lot easier. for slovak/serbian problem is necessary to speak/read hungarian, but I did some achievment and evereone can read my opinion at discussion site. --Mt7 10:22, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi!
Hi! Thanks for your words, I didn't know, that I have to deal with some real brickheads here, I thought it is a speciality of smaller wikis, like huwiki... see example here. PS: I made that kind-of-userbox on huwiki what you have on yr userpage's upper right corner, but linked to the article instead of the flag. (but at least, the line: 1956-2006. 50 éve - and the flag - remained from it :) )--VinceB 13:41, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your lines again :) Silly thing that I'm usually better informed than them :) Oh, I had to dea with a guy, who is concerned, that the Kingdom of Hungary was an apartheid system (with a hungarian supremacy) read this - No comment. Only going through the maps, you can find tons of mistakes (or some intresting/weird stuff), like showing Budapest (instead of separated Pest and Buda) on "pre-1873" maps, or showing Bratislava instead of Pressburg on "pre-1919" maps, to point some obvious ones. I've just started a (seems to be long long long) journey right now, to adjust the contents of these pages to the cruel world outside reality. Main problem is that most of the, let me say bullshit, what can be found in hu-related history articles are derivered from this article, and I'm not an expert in ethinc stuff and not even was intrested in it before, just history. If you know some users here, who are well informed, please, let me know. Thanks!

PS: I took the flag off on nov 4. (for some reason) --Vince hey, yo! :-) 14:33, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, you're absolutely right! (As I see, I'm not the first one, who got this...umm..."not nice"...umm..."welcoming" from them) Do you (we) have any new project(s) since the 56 article? Maybe I can help too. Take care, regards --Vince hey, yo! :-) 15:37, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Borat
Hey...I similarly asked for semi-protection for the Nursultan Nazarbayev article, and it was also denied. I don't understand why they need mass, prolonged vandalism to protect it? I think all wikipedia articles should be semi-protected, or at least the vast majority of them. Oh well. Thanks for trying again.--Thomas.macmillan 19:04, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I would also like to thank you for trying to get this protected. I cannot figure out why the request was denied. Thanks anyway, KazakhPol 01:23, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Puskás
Hi KL, I nicked your userbox for Puskás öcsi - I didnt think you would mind (sincerest form of flattery and all...) normally I dont "do" userboxes, but this is such an exception.... thanks. István 05:30, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

signature test
I just tried "Magyarizing" my unusually Russian signature, here's to see if it works... K. Lastochka 03:12, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Wow, nope. let's try again...K. Lástocska 03:13, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
 * There we go!

D'oh....and it takes me this long to realize that if I'm gonna Magyarize, I need to fully Magyarize--which means adding that "z" I forgot....K. Lásztocska 17:54, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * to heck with accuracy. That looked stupid. K. Lástocska 20:22, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, but now I don't know what to do! It looks weird with the Z...but I have immense respect and love for the Magyar language...if anyone is reading this and cares to offer an opinion one way or the other, I'd be glad to hear it. KL

Hungarians
No, I did not said that Hungarians do not exist as a nation. There is no doubt that Hungarians as a nation exist, but I only speak about origin of the Hungarians, which is mostly Slavic. If you do not trust to me, then trust to this: http://www.le.ac.uk/genetics/maj4/EuropeMap+Tree.jpg I am not talking here from my head, by I speak what I saw in sources. That map for example show that Hungarians are not different at all from Poles and Ukrainians. And regarding those Hungarians who "look sort of Asiatic", that is called a mestizo (i.e. half European-half Asian), but even among them you have a Slavic half. :) However, according to this genetic map, number of such "mestizo Hungarians" is really not a large one. Regarding racism, the racists claim that their own race is better than other race. Did I claimed something like that? No, I did not. What I said is that Hungarians and Slavs belong to SAME race and I never said that one race is better than another. So, how can that be a racism? And Serbs do have much Illyrian and Thracian blood of course, did I ever said something different? Read all my posts on all talk pages and then make conclusion. Regarding statement that "Hungarians are not Hungarians", I did not meant that Hungarians today are not a nation, but that they are not Hungarians according to the definition what was one Hungarian 1000 years ago. I am not native English speaker, so I might not always express my thoughts in English in proper manner. PANONIAN   (talk)  02:27, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Jaj, csak nem megint evvel a teljesen rossz genetikai mappával jön... már megmagyaráztam neki, hogy miért egy nagy marhaság, de úgy látszik nem értette meg. Például, ha jól megnézed a térképet, látod hogy a Norvégoknak ugyanolyan genetikája van mint a Macedónoknak meg a Cseheknek (???) :). Nem tudom hogy mennyire profik azok akik csinálták, de pld. nem áll sehol, hogy eggyáltalán milyen embereket és hol (ez nagyon fontos lenne) teszteltek. Én is tudnék 10 embert tesztelni, de az erdemény akkor sem mondana semmit. --Öcsi 16:38, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


 * "What I said is that Hungarians and Slavs belong to SAME race and I never said that one race is better than another." Hey, comedian, you are joking again. Bruhahaha! --Öcsi 16:40, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I've given a definition of 1000-years-old-hungarians to you on Talk: Sajan (village), and I would estimate that 66% (that's 2/3) of today's hungarians look very similar to one of the two groups. --Öcsi 16:43, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Do you know which kind of people use expressions like "race"; yes, I think you are guessing right. Öcsi


 * And by the way, I did not saw you here much before, so I assume that you are relativelly new user (I might be wrong), but you may notice that my statements there were simply answer to some Hungarian users here, who for a long time trying to "prove" that entire Central Europe is "ancient Hungarian land". So, I really do not care from where Hungarians came, but I only showed to them that they are in big delusion about some things. PANONIAN   (talk)  02:32, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

"Isn't EVERY nation/ethnic group/people different now than they were 1000 years ago?"

But that was exactly my point there: those Hungarian users that I mentioned claim that Magyars today are same as they were 1000 years ago and that entire Central Europe belong to them. Regarding the Slavic origin of the Hungarians, that do not refer to origin of those Hungarians from 1000 AD, but to origin of present-day Hungarians, that are, according to many sources, rather descendants of Pannonian Slavs than of Hungarians that settled here under Arpad. Also, the present-day Hungarian language have many Slavic words and Hungarian folk music in Vojvodina have many similarities with Serbian one. Regarding those namers, Attila is not Magyar, but Hunnic name, while Vajk could be of Slavic origin (according to one source it is Magyarized version of Slavic name Vuk ("wolf"), and there are many Serbs with name Vuk). So, you again did not understood what I said because I did not claimed that original Hungarians are of Slavic origin, but only present-day Hungarians. And yes, six months that you are here is not a long period by my opinion, but you should look to see more about edits of some users like Bendeguz, fz22, Osci, HunTheGoat, VinceB, etc, and then you will have a full picture about what I speak here. PANONIAN  (talk)  03:57, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


 * You are the one here, who is talking about Greater Hungary and Greater Serbia and editing ambiguous maps. --Öcsi 16:47, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


 * And "Vajk" has nothing to do with "Vuk". --Öcsi 16:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, regarding sources, I showed you map about genetic origin of the modern Hungarians, it is from the United Kingdom source, so I do not see why it should not be accurate. I also have some books in Serbian about this, but I do not think that these books could be usefull to you. And regarding these Hungarian editors from the list, we have these arguments not for months but for years already, so if you have few years to spend here, you can start to argue too. :)) PANONIAN   (talk)  04:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

1. There are plenty of Hungarians who look sort of Asiatic, I've seen some. They don't look like the Khanty, but they don't look entirely Slavic either.

2. Even though it is obvious that the original, Asiatic Magyar tribes have in the past 1000 years intermarried and had children with various Slavic peoples from the region, thereby ending up looking more "European", that doesn't mean that "the Hungarians are not Hungarians at all." Such an argument is at best silly and at worst downright racist. It smells of ugly theories of "racial purity" that have terrorized the world for centuries. I'm sure even the Serbs have some "foreign" blood in them. Surely the current Hungarians are somewhat different from the original Hungarians that went with Arpad into the Carpathian basin a millenium ago, but do NOT tell me that "the Hungarians are not Hungarians." As long as we have our language, our stories, our music, our...interesting national character :), and our culture in general, the Hungarians ARE still "real" Hungarians. K. Lástocska 01:48, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Na, én is pont ugyanezt mondom neki, és mi a válasz: Vagy az hogy egy irredenta nagy-magyarországos vagyok, vagy félrebeszél és ma´s témát kezd. Olvasd csak el a Talk: Sajan (village) elsö részét.--Öcsi 17:02, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

'''Hey! Quit arguing on MY talk page, take the fight to your own! :)'''K. Lástocska 02:16, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Bibó again
The absolutely right man for you is User:OrbitOne. Please contact him, he'll surely be able to help. NCurs e work 06:43, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

From another KL
Hi there Lástocska (am I right in guessing – using the interwiki on this page – that your name actually means a kind of swallow, or fecske?), I don't use the User talk namespace too much but a few things came to my mind recently that I want to tell you:
 * "Puskás Öcsi" should be written with a capital Ö, since "Öcsi" is used as a nickname in place of his given name "Ferenc". Do please fix that. (I know it's a wiki, but I somehow don't like the idea of editing other people's user pages or comments.)
 * I'm not sure you noticed that it was me who put up the "Special Moments" article on AfD but if you did, I don't quite know what to think about your comment on the noticeboard the other day... you hopefully didn't mean what it looks like it's saying. Anyways, I hope I'll be able to enter the discussion there later today.

Have a nice day & thanks for your involvement into Hungarian topics,

KissL 11:41, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Re: Hungary portal, and problem articles
Szia! No problem, I haven't had any time for the portal either, so I can't blame others for not having time for it :) btw it's not hard to edit portals, that's what the small "edit" links are for in the different sections :) I just started a new portal for my hometown, it is kind of a vanity project, but I've always planned to do so :) If you want to try and update the Hungary portal, the next update will be due around 15th Dec (since I promised when I took over the portal that it'll be updated at least twice a month...)

I've seen the list of problem articles too, but those subjects are bound to lead to big nationalistic wars and I don't really like being involved in those... I'm sure the Polish Wikipedians would be nice to us, Polish people generally like Hungarians :) and theirs is a large Wikipedia community (plwiki is among the 10 largest WPs if I remember well). They could be of help but it shouldn't look like a Polish-Hungarian alliance against the Slovak-Serbian alliance. :)

– Alensha   talk  20:29, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

There aren't many Czechs around here, I've noticed that too. Will you ask the Poles for help? I don't really know where do we need help right now; haven't been following the problem artices for a while. (btw I like Poland too, I have some Polish ancestry :) – Alensha   talk  21:24, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's really my birthday :) Thanks! (my Miskolc portal was kind of a wiki-gift to myself, I planned to start it today :) – Alensha   talk  22:01, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Liszt
Um…I have a book of music that says the place he was born isn't in Austria or Romania: Raiding??? I thought that place mentioned in the article was the place he was born, but now I'm confused…? &mdash; $PЯINGrαgђ  Always loyal! 23:25, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Un-confused; Raiding is in Austria. &mdash; $PЯINGrαgђ  Always loyal! 23:26, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


 * yeah, isn't Central European geography fun! :) K. Lástocska 00:09, 4 December 2006 (UTC)


 * That's for sure…the one place where my knowledge is weak. :P &mdash; $PЯINGrαgђ  Always loyal! 00:31, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't help that everything's changed its name at least five times and belonged to about eight thousand different countries/kingdoms. We still haven't figured it all out! :) K. Lástocska 00:44, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Independence and Foundation
(sounds like Asimov, hmm?) Your textbox edit works just fine. Dont feel you need to apologise for anything here, those Central Europe pages are sometimes short of diplomats. István 21:46, 4 December 2006 (UTC) Thank you for the kind words István 13:49, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

RfA...
Thank you. I must say, I thought long and hard about leaving you a message, but again, as "advertising" appears to be frowned upon, I resisted. However, I will let you know next time. By the way, are we ready to do anything new with the '56 Revolution article? I've still got a few ideas kicking around, and then there's that dormant template... Biruitorul 01:11, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * A section on events outside Budapest was indeed one of my desiderata and fortunately, we still have the raw text here. Time permitting, I'll convert that into article format within a few days/weeks. I just noticed we make no mention of the Suez Crisis - the fact that it happened during the Revolution is a pretty big deal because it distracted the West and allowed the USSR to intervene. I also think we should have something on historical interpretations (maybe in a separate article) - why did it happen? What did they want to do? We don't truly know, but the speculation is interesting and, provided we find proper citation, could be included. Finally, I agree on the need for more discussion of repercussions. We do give a fairly good overview in the "Aftermath" section, but more is evidently needed. For instance, I've been planning something on the simultaneous student protests in Romania (thousands of both nationalities arrested and 24 eventually executed) - since the materials are mostly in Romanian, I'll do the bulk of the work on that one. So, in sum, there's a lot to do, but there's a lot else going on in our lives; hopefully by early January we'll see some results. Biruitorul 04:11, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

memo to myself...
Found a good link to a Hungarian history database, figured I'd put it here before I forgot it. :) KL The Library of Congress >> Especially for Researchers >> Research Centers >> Hungary


 * Just be aware that it dates to September 1989 - right before some pretty important stuff.... István 04:34, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks--looks pretty good for earlier things though. :) K. Lástocska 16:43, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Ghirlaphobia
Your accusations of "the large amounts of accusations of extremism, nationalism, trollism and other nasty things coming from Ghirla" are taken seriously. Welcome to the ranks of Ghirlaphobes. -- Ghirla -трёп-  08:03, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you for your kind comments on my RfC. And yes, welcome to the ranks of those who have dared to criticize Ghirla. You will know no peace... :> PS. Ghirla has a custom of reverting 99% of critical comments from his talk page, I suggest you reply to him here if you want your comment to be visible.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 18:53, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not a 'Polish-Russian war', as much as Ghirla is trying to make it look like one; there are many 'eastern' editors who are perfectly reasonable; I hope we will hear from them soon. As for I'm beginning to think I shouldn't have said anything - do remember: The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:31, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I am actually partially sorry to have involved anybody in this. Wiki is my hobby, it usually relaxes me - but Wiki politics is not my idea of 'fun', and this particular conflict is honestly the worst experience I have had in many, many months. Something must be done to solve this, but I have no idea what. Hopefully some people at this RfC seem to have an idea (mediation? again? I would try it...). Anyway, I posted a loooong answer of many issues raised by several users on talk. If this doesn't show the people the root of the problem, well, I am running out of options. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 21:42, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * This message is what the RFC is about. Piotrus, please look at your contributions and estimate how much of them are "requests for input", "Ghirlandajo said... so I search for your opinion", "I know that you have had conflicts with Ghirla, so please comments on his latest outburst...", "thanks for reporting on Ghirla's actions", etc, etc. I don't how others feel in such situations, but I regards such actions as objectionable and incivil. How many Russian editors did you ask to comment? I suspect that zero. Can you name a single instance when I acted this way? -- Ghirla -трёп-  17:10, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Gentlemen, please do not use MY talk page for YOUR arguments.K. Lástocska 17:28, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

That's what they are there for :) Seriously, WP:CABAL sais it all, and if some people still use - and believe - the cabal arguments, well, that's only to be expected; in the end, this is little different from other conspiracy theories out there. As for RfC, I believe that the best thing that can happen is if more people see it and comment. The number of biased users is tiny, but of course such groups will tend to gather around such threads. If others learn about them, the vast neutral and fair majority will silence them - and we already are begining to see this. Thus I am not suprised some users try to ironically limit the number of people who learn about this RfC - if they can get only a few people to comment, they win, if many come, they will loose... so once again, thank you for your comments. If you want, you can continue to take part in the discussions or ask others to comment, but you have already done a lot. Thank you again, --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 03:30, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't think he has much of a point, but I apologized for the one offensive remark I can think of. In the end, for each slight I might have done - after being provoked by his much more incivil comments - he has done hundreds. It would be interesting to see if he will not admit I have a point, or apologize. That would be a first.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 23:38, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Portal
Looks good. I knew you'll find it easier than you thought :) Usually the subjects of the featured article and the featured picture are not related (b/c the aim of the portal is to cover a wide range of topics), but on special occasions like this one they can be. Congratulations on your first portal-update! –  Alensha   talk  16:04, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Your joke
Thank you for your apology, which was very nice of you, but it really wasn't necessary. "Impale" does indeed bring up instant associations with Vlad, especially internationally. I for one am not part of the ever-increasing group of individuals who takes "offense" at the drop of a hat. If someone insults Romania or expresses anti-Romanian sentiments (which you didn't), I use reason and logic to try and bring him round to what I see as a more enlightened position; I don't walk away in feigned disgust. And if someone is persistently anti-Romanian, I don't begrudge him the right to hold that opinion; I may even be his friend. For, though I am a nationalist/patriot, I realize that all nations are but temporary creations of man (some more enduring than others), one day set to be swept away entirely. So if you were so inclined, you could hurl all the insults you wanted to at my people; I wouldn't think the less of you, particularly because the Transylvania issue is still a painful one for many Hungarians. Biruitorul 23:13, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * July, August... I'll cool off for a while (wrong season for that metaphor, but you get the idea). Biruitorul 23:24, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

MedCab request
Hello! I'm from the cabal which doesn't exist...You have done a good thing by attempting to bring a mediator into the fold here. However, I looked into the case more deeply, and it's probably beyond the scope of all but the most patient and tactful mediators. I used to think that was me, but I got sucked into a brutal edit war myself and have pretty much resigned myself to light-duty caseloads for a while. Most often, just waiting will allow this thingto blow over. THese two obviously HATE each other, however. I see this all the time. Editors are more concerned with fighting each other's POV and never actually reach a consensus, and stop actually caring about what Wikipedia is all about. As long as this argument doesn't spill over into article content, I wouldn't worry about it. Hopefully, given time, they will cool off. I'm not going to take your case, but I'll sign on as a mediator and keep my eye on the dispute. If nothing else, I may be able to help cool these guys down, even if I can't make them agree on anything. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Antimatter---talk--- 23:16, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for trying. In the end, AbCom seems like the last best hopewe have...--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 13:06, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your kind words
Thank you very much for your cookie and even more for your kind words! I wish more editors were like you. You certainly do not need to apologize for the behavior of other users. You are one of the most civil editors I have had the pleasure to meet here. Your warm comments and attempts to mediate make Wikipedia a better place to work for everyone around you. That is very precious. Unfortunately, I started to believe that the users of your kind will be always in minority. I just do not know if it is worth contributing if national myths are valued more than knowledge and the only recognition for your work is harassment. Anyway, köszönöm very much again:-) Tankred 23:50, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

XMAS gift
Lots of good intentions flying around, but not much in the way of useful stuff. Here is a nice template I found to organize your ever-growing collections of awards :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 14:36, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Your Wiki Suicide

 * "I may have essentially commited Wiki-suicide here, because I am certain that now I too will endure attacks, ad hominems, name-calling, accusations of cabalism, and perhaps vandalism."

Merry Christmas, you Nagyite chandelier! ;-) István 21:58, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

userpage editing, etc.

 * Ah, and I was wondering how to say Merry XMAS in Hungarian ;p I fixed (hopefully) the problem with your userpage, let me know if there are any other issues you'd like to see. Being a vane person as you can see my userpage and talk page are stuffed with all kinds of gadgets - and so I had to learn how to make them like each other (hey, I even got a Barnstar for that) - so I think I can do some nas... nice, I mean, things to your userpage too, if you wish :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 22:34, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Check User:Piotrus/Sandbox/Userpage design project. Placeholders can be deleted, commented out or replaced by anything you want, there are basically 10 'puzzles' to place wherever you want. Let me know if you like it :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 23:58, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I'd strongly suggest you chose a table layout - like the one in my sandox, or my userpage or one of others used. With lots of graphical elements, table layouts are much better...--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 11:41, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

WP:RFAR
Ghirla and Piotr have agreed to try mediation with me. JzG who initiated the arbitration request has asked the committee to give this a chance to work. If you'd like to provide input your comments are welocme at User talk:Durova/Mediation/Input. I'd appreciate if you'd append your comment at the arbitration request to allow mediation unless you really want the formal case to go forward. Durova Charg e! 23:10, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I thought your statement was very well written - it's not common to see a frank honest piece like that on ArbCom. IMHO it is my better then the new one, which doesn't really say as much :( --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:21, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I believe that an important reason for our progress is the pressure of RfArb, and the more people certify various claims, the more likely it is that parties who refused to accept them will have no choice but to agree with the majority. For example, Ghirla never in the past had admited that he was uncivil, what we are seeing now is the 'first'. Similarly, if people think I have abused the admin powers, nothing but a large amount of them coming out and saying this will convince me I had done so. Therefore sometimes it is necessary to say the 'ugly truth' - because hushing it up and being polite and non-commital has not worked in the past for either one of us. Btw, when you copy the page from my sandbox design, please blank it (to erase the categories). I am glad you like it!--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:36, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Re:Ghirla left
Wouldn't be the first time (,, ...), so I am inclined not to treat such annoucements seriously. ATM I don't see what could have caused such reaction from him - just a few posts ago he admited at ArbCom that we are making progress. I guess this story wouldn't end that easily, though (note that ArbCom request has been accepted by 4 ArbComers, perhaps this annoyed him - I am not sure what he means by his statement about users leaving, though). Anyway, judging by my experience, he will be back, especially as he just wrote about a break, not leaving like last time (which lasted the entire week or so anyway).--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 13:06, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
 * 'I told you so :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 23:01, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

LOL--I guess that's one thing he and I have in common, we stink at taking wikibreaks. :) K. Lástocska 23:44, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Requests for arbitration/Piotrus-Ghirla
Hello,

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Requests for arbitration/Piotrus-Ghirla. Please add any evidence you may wish the arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Piotrus-Ghirla/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Piotrus-Ghirla/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, --Srikeit 05:33, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Weird vandal: reply
Köszönöm és a legjobbakat neked is. :) It's really funny, I'll watch this user's contributions. But it seems that he has already raised the attention of other admins. Sorry for the late reply, I had an exam, but I'm back in action. :) NCurs e work 20:24, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Hungarian Culture Project - Puskás, then Musicians?
Hi KL, arent you a musician? A good place to start would be with the more fameous of Hungarian musical types - Bártok, Kodály, Liszt are all in fairly good shape, have much longer HuWiki articles (i.e. we could bring material over) and would make pretty good FAC after some work. Soundbytes might be very applicable here as well (I suppose Im on an auditory kick today) and I would certainly help. Mind you, I think Puskás should come first, but as long as we're looking for a place to start, whaddaya say? István 17:31, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Vandal tags
Thank you for reverting vandalism on Wikipedia! Be sure to put warning tags on the vandal's user talk page (such as,  ,  ,  ). Add each of these tags on the vandal's talk page, in sequential order, after each instance of vandalism. Adding warnings to the talk page assists administrators in determining whether or not the user should be blocked. If the user continues to vandalize pages after you add the  tag, request administrator assistance at Request for Intervention. Again, thank you for helping to make Wikipedia better. --Kralizec! (talk) 23:12, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Re:national culture wikiprojects
Well, my advice is - just write articles :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 21:52, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Really, it is. I will try not to write a large essay about such projects; I like them, but they do little but provide a forum for discussion and sometimes help organize stuff like categories or WP:1.0 assessment stuff. Word of warning: don't try to create more then one forum for discussion - this is why WikiProject Poland redirects to WP:PWNB - we simply don't have enough editors to support to discusson threads. And since we have so few editors, even our subprojects like WikiProject History of Poland in fact are inactive, with all editors channeled to the one single forum.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 15:05, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks :)
Just wanted to say hi and thanks for all the hard work you've been putting into the Liszt article lately. I'm quite a big fan of his and read as many books as I can get my hands on about him lol, unfortunately I don't always have the time to put as much work into the article as I'd like to. Just so you know the work you're doing isn't going unappreciated, thanks! Especially with all this nonsense about him being slovak... M A Mason 16:27, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Vojvodina
Sorry for not in English, but I'm tired. Nem hinném, hogy gondot jelentene. Ha ez egy userlapon lenne, akkor ugranék, de éppen arról beszél, a változtatásával még óv is. Sztem erre kár lenne egy adminnak érdemben reagálnia. Ha másként gondolod, kérlek szólj. NCurs e work 20:30, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * he basically said that it is too irrelevant to make a big issue out of it; if it was on a user page, he'd do something about it, but it's just Panonian speaking about that he's trying to protect Hungarians with this deletion. But if you have a different opinion, just tell him. – Alensha   talk  17:16, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, that's what I thought, just wanted to make sure. köszönöm nagyon szépen for your help! :) K. Lásztocska 19:49, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Most látom, frissítetted a magyar portált? :) ügyes vagy! (I'm quite busy now in HuWiki and real life, only managed to update the Miskolc portal this month...) – Alensha   talk  20:19, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry for my last message, I'll always write in English. Anyway, I absolutely agree with your last reply. NCurs e work 06:49, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I woner about "unrelated links" why?
these uprisings directly related, if you are read what there written —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Oscar Jet (talk • contribs) 23:25, 3 January 2007 (UTC).

They are only related in that they were all uprisings against the Soviet Union, but there was no cause-and-effect relationship, it's not like the Hungarian revolution triggered those other two. We can't put in links to all the articles about all other uprisings, it's unnecessary and wastes space. K. Lásztocska 23:30, 3 January 2007 (UTC) Yes, I see, probably you are right, especially the page is full --Oscar Jet 23:45, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

The Poem Project
Just a kind note, but the poem isn't yours, and the moral integrity and actions of the charectors in the poem are the collective item of all it's writers, if you would like to argue the charector that is fine, but please remember that everyone can add to it and change the charector. --&#91;&#91;User:Yossi842&#124; Yossi842]] 19:58, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Our 15 minutes of anonymous fame
Nice catch about the blog mentioning the 56 article. Im sure you agree, it feels good to see some explicit recognition, after all that work we put in, and to think - this was posted on 10 October, well before the article hit top form, much less before it went frontpage on 23 October! How did you find this? Nice catch! I just posted a reply. István 03:55, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Very good indeed! István 05:12, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Wow...
Just checked the blog you mentioned to István. It feels good to see your work being appreciated :)

I remember the day when Imre Nagy was reburied, on June 16th 1989. My family and me were in Kőszeg visiting my mother's family; 16th was the day we planned to go home, and Dad was worried that we have to drive through Budapest and maybe there would be demonstrations. I was 8 and a half years old, didn't understand much of the historical significance of the event, and found it funny that the guy being reburied has the same name as one of my schoolmates (who was later teased by lots of us for "his" burial making headlines :) (anyway... this was just a small tidbit of how it all looked to me as a child :)

I'm gonna "steal" lots of your userboxes but right now Wikipedia is expreriencing difficulties again... HuWiki can't even be edited today, here in EnWiki the situation is somewhat better. Funny that servers always do this during fundraising campaigns, as if they wanted to demonstrate that Wikimedia needs that money very bad. :)

Anyway, your user page is way more informative now that it was last time I checked it. It's nice what you wrote about your role as a Wiki-diplomat (I'm trying to play the same role in HuWiki :) I never knew you were female. Your interest in football implied that you were a guy but then your "little bird" user name didn't – but of course, these thoughts were based on gender stereotypes, which one must get rid of quickly in this online world where one meets all kinds of interesting people :)

If you'd like to read something in Hungarian to exercise the language, may I recommend the touching anecdote one of our editors posted on the talk page of the Hungarian version of the Puskás article? It's under the title Anekdota on the talk page. It's very nice and I think you'd love it. If you don't understand some of the expressions, I'll help.

Pusztalakó – I was wondering whether you'll notice it :D You know NCurse lives in Debrecen in the big, boring puszta, and there's a long-standing rivalry between our cities because they aren't smart enough to recognize the superiority of Miskolc :)) (no, there's no similar word for people from Miskolc, at least nothing that can be mentioned in polite society... :)

Best of luck with your auditions!

– Alensha   talk  15:03, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

p.s.: Sorry for this long long long message. I'm frustrated that Wiki is this slow and a graphomaniac like me must type something all the time.)

Puskás on Puskás
A seller on British eBay has the book. 10 GBP plus 6 for shipping; get it fast if it isn't too expensive.

(damn. I just broke my oath that I won't even think of any eBay sites until my next paycheck.)

It would be nice to get the article featured. I'd help too but my knowledge on anything sport-related is extremely limited. I'll notify the other Hungarians, maybe they can help.

About Liszt: His article states that he was Hungarian; this is what really counts, not the lists of Austrians :)

The pusztalakó has a great sense of humor, I'm sure he doesn't mind this nickname. :) Are you planning to visit Hungary in the near future? We plan to have a Wikipedia meetup in Kassa (okay, that's not exactly in Hungary, but let's be irredentists for a short while :)

– Alensha   talk  16:32, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Redeeming Qualities, you ask?...
Short answer: I wouldn't say there aren't.

Long answer: ooooh...let me count the ways.....Firstly, we have produced per capita the highest number of Nobel laureates. Apropos, in maths, Hungarian kids repeatedly score top in Europe, and third only behind Japanese and Korean kids on those international mathematics tests.

Hungarian sense of humour is delightfully subtle and razor-sharp, at least as distinctive as that of the English (too bad nobody else can understand it).

Hungarian is a beautifully lyrical language. Even though just about everyone on this planet attests that *their* native language is the most "expressive", Hungarian poetry certainly punches far above its weight, having produced far more and better works than any other nation of 15 Millions. As a knock-on, Hungary has given the world more than its share of musical treasures (I know you dont need elaboration here). This includes not just "high culture" but also the continuum of magyarnóta-klezmer-gypsy music (which is arguably the most passionate on earth). Hungarian radio (unlike say German or Dutch) plays mostly home-grown contemporary music, and unlike much of Europe, it's actually pretty good (mostly). Some Hungarian lyricists/musicians would be famous worldwide if others could understand them. (e.g. Cseh Tamás)

Hungarian food is objectively in Europe's top rank - (in taste, not health - which is a different story) typical of catholic cultures' taking their food very seriously, Hungarian cuisine is universally recognised in Europe and many Europeans travel there mostly for the food (and the drinks). Similarly, Hungarians are among Europe's most compulsively hospitable people (something Anglophones could learn from) Just tour Hungary and its neighbours in the same trip, and see for yourself. Indeed, so long as Hungarians around you know that you are a foreigner, they will be pleasantly helpful with you (something Francophones could learn from) and anyone exploiting or making trouble for you would immediately be regarded as a low-life (or a taxi driver) (or a BKV tickets inspector).

And...I must admit...Hungarian women are arguably the best in the world (except for the overly neurotic ones). They are top drawer in attractiveness, temprament, and are quite competent in the art of being feminine. This is, safe to say, also a pan-European opinion, not just mine.

There are perhaps a thousand reasons Hungarians are different, special, and sometimes even better at some things but in the end one can say that, yes, there do exist redeeming qualities. István 01:38, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Have to disagree on the contemporary music part... the last time Hungary had good pop music was in the 80s (now that was what I call music), but since then it deteriorated into something awful. Listening to any radio it seems that it tries to imitate British and American music (lots of the time they "cover" foreign songs, which is basically just a nicer word for stealing) and all the lyrics are full of clichés. I'm very disappointed of Hungarian pop music, the only good music I can think of is the music by the group NOX, which doesn't try to imitate foreign music, but reaches back to the roots of real Hungarian music (they sing modernized folk songs, etc.)
 * And actually there is a law that says every radio station must play Hungarian songs in a certain percent of their air time (around 20%, I'm not sure), otherwise no one would request these songs on radio. It's true that almost every album in the top40 is a Hungarian one, but that's because of the elatively high price of CDs here – almost everyone I know downloads music from the Internet, and CDs are bought only by those who are too stupid to use a computer, and their taste is not the most refined...
 * Hungarian women: I'd take Istvan's opinion as a compliment if I wasn't afraid that my anxiety disorder puts me in the "overly neurotic" category :D
 * – Alensha   talk  17:46, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, in true wikipedia fashion, I must zealously defend my position and preface with the disclaimer that on second reading, my above crie de coer seems embarrassingly sappy - (KL: this is cardinal sin in Hungary). Alensha, you describe a sad trend gripping the entire world. I compare the H scene with the rest of Europe. Latin Europe also plays mostly homegrown music (French is also pretty good) but Germanic Europe plays mostly US/UK, or dismally formulaic synthesised Bierzeltmusik with lots of jabber in between. I base my H observation mostly on the period from the twilight of socialism to the mid-90s when there were several good artists getting plenty of air time. If its worse now (I dont argue that it isnt), then you are comparing it to the previous Hungarian standard, not the current European (or better "Western" one). Techno-synth-(c)rap rákzene knows no culture and is equally bad all over the world. Even America and UK are getting too stale, and the world is, IMHO, stuck waiting for a new genre to be born, something as fundamentally revolutionary as rock-and-roll was in the 50s - some fresh air to overthrow what needs overthrowing. It will probably happen via MP3 over the internet. and no, I don't read you as being "overly neurotic" at all, but a quite pleasant and good wikipedian István 18:33, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey, there's always room for cris de coeur, at least if you're stuck in the Romantic era like me. :) It may have been sappy, but I found it rather touching, and definitely helped me get out of a rotten mood/long dark night of the magyar soul. :) As for the global pop music disaster, I agree 110% with you guys that something new has to come along to sweep away the crap. I like to think that it will be a revival of folk music, but that probably won't happen. Then again, you never know...look at the táncház movement, I sure wouldn't have predicted that one. (How's it doing btw? Do people still dance the old dances in Budapest? I have GOT to get over there...) K. Lásztocska 23:20, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Alensha, that's because I'm the neurotic one around here--the one that gets thrown into existential despair by stories about the stupid Curse of Turan and can't take a proper wikibreak... :) K. Lásztocska 02:23, 9 January 2007 (UTC)


 * "stuck waiting for a new genre to be born, something as fundamentally revolutionary as rock-and-roll was in the 50s - some fresh air to overthrow what needs overthrowing." István put it better than I could have.
 * "It will probably happen via MP3 over the internet." Another possible source is world music. Recently it's fashionable to put world music samples into pop and r&b (Truth Hurts's Addictive is one example), and I love it. – Alensha   talk  21:00, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Curse of the Turan
Don't get superstitious....its bad luck. István 02:40, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Auditions
Kalappal! István 06:46, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Köszönöm! :) K. Lásztocska 01:48, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

én is szurkolok :) írd majd meg nekünk, hogy sikerült!

I've just left a long rant on Viktor Orbán's talk page... I should have known that all the gods will strike down upon me if I break the resolution I made after the last parlamentary elections, (about not talking about politics), 'cause it just makes me annoyed >:-( – Alensha   talk  21:00, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Next time, try being a little bolder, 'kay? ;-) you are spot-on about (among others) the highways - I love the new M3 - not life-threatening like the old one - maybe now Miskolc's population can start going up again. István 17:30, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, Alensha, brilliant rant on Orbán!! LOL! Do I sense that you too are a disgruntled and disgusted erstwhile Fidesz supporter? :) although I heard that Viki might be moving to the Christian Democrats and taking his right-wing cronies with him, so Fidesz might be able to swing back to the center...I hope, I hope... :) K. Lásztocska 01:58, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Good luck with the auditions! I was trying to find out how to say it in Hungarian but couldn't find anything :( I'm guessing it's Kalappal, but I didn't want to look daft if it was wrong :p Let us know how it goes :) M A Mason 16:45, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Vojvodina incidents
Such incidents happen in every country and the real question is whether they have ethnic background or not. Vojvodina is a multiethnic place and if two men become drunken and start a fight because of pretty woman, it could very likely to happen that such men are of different ethnic origin. The question is whether they started fight because of woman or because they were of different ethnic origin (to see the answer read my previous sentence). Also, the web site that you quoted is not reliable one - for example, among other things, it claim that Hungarian leader (who else but Kasa) was attacked by hand granade. The fact (confirmed by the police) is that the target of that granade was not Kasa but his neighbour living in the same street several blocks away - of course Kasa claimed that he in fact was the target, but just think why. If you want to writte reliable information about events in Vojvodina, then please find a official report of European investigators who investigated those events. PANONIAN  (talk)  04:20, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Hehehe, well, I did saw some of your other edits (not in Vojvodina article), but I often read edits of some Hungarian users, including Hungarian notice board, and yes, you might not be "big" nationalist (like some other users), but you are not angel as well. :) - no offence of course - Just think about this: why I never edited articles related to Kosovo or Croatia to writte there that "evil" Croats and Albanians attacking Serbs (and believe me, news in Serbia are full of such reports). Besides this, you already have article named Anti-Hungarian sentiment where those things are mentioned and I certainly do not believe that "normal" geographical and historical articles should contain such controversial paragraphs. PANONIAN   (talk)  04:35, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I will read that link tommorow - it is 05:37 in the morning and I have to sleep a little. :)) PANONIAN   (talk)  04:42, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, good night. We will have to continue this discussion (much) later--I'm returning to my extended wikibreak now, since I have much better things to do than get insulted and distrusted just for being a damn Hungarian. K. Lásztocska 04:50, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, distrust does not came from the fact that you are Hungarian, but from the nature of your edit in "History of Vojvodina" article. Regarding your "nationalistic bias in the past", I could not find this in your recent edits, so either it was in some of your older edits either I confused you with some other user, in which case I apologize, but that anyway do not change the nature of your last edit in the history of Vojvodina. Now about "your" link: http://hrw.org/reports/2005/serbia1005/7.htm That link too say that it mention "incidents with alleged ethnic motivation" (notice the word "alleged"), and that political representatives of Vojvodina Hungarians are source for such allegations. Also, not to mention false information that could be found on that page, such is that "the Serbian criminal code does not contain any offenses proscribing acts of violence motivated by racial, ethnic, religious or national hatred", which is complete lie because Serbian criminal code do have sanctions against ethnically motivated violence and even against ethnically motivated "speech of hate". Regarding examples of ethnic incidents mentioned there, we can also discuss them one by one, but then we would have very long discussion - it is clear that authors of this site only assume that those incidents had ethnic background, and I see there no larger proof than their assumption. The basic fact that Serbian criminal law do proscribe sanctions against ethnically motivated violence (and this site claim that it not) and that participants in those incidents were not charged for ethnically motivated violence (because of lack of proof for such charges), show us what is the true background of such story - nothing but just another example of forged story in western media about "evil Serbs". If you want to have real story about those events, then please read the official report of European investigators. PANONIAN   (talk)  13:53, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, here it is- official European Parliament Resolution on Vojvodina may be found here which summarises the resolution adopted unanimously censuring Serbia for not controlling ethnic violence.István 15:43, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Pannonian, this reference from international Human Rights Watch rephrases much of what you discount as national-bias of the original reference, and this one  addresses the problem you mention above of police and official denial of ethnic-motivated violence, and states that "In spite of the numerous incidents against the minorities during 2004 and 2005, there were no criminal convictions against adults for violations of article 134." On many points you are correct- indeed there are Serb laws on the books against hate crimes (predating 11 July 1995?). Ive heard that Mexico has tough environmental protection laws and Thailand has laws against prostitution and heroin. You are also correct in that the deleted paragraph does not belong on History of Vojvodina; because it documents a current event it rather belongs on the Vojvodina page.István 15:13, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

he/she
I noticed that too. and i'll assume your good faith until i see otherwise. it only started because i thought something (your paragraph) was being taken out for no explained reason. but i don't know enough about the situation to really be able to judge. cheers! Murderbike 05:49, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

';-) whadda chandelier! István 03:01, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

LOL...we're never going to entirely get over that are we...I am rather proud to be almost certainly the only person alive or dead to have ever been called a "Nagyite chandelier." Thanks, Piotrus and Ghirla! :)K. Lásztocska 04:32, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Pole, Hungarian, two good friends
It's always a pleasure to collaborate with others on various articles. Sometimes when old (or not so old) nationalisms raise their heads it can be a little stressing (as we both now), but in many cases it's a pleasant experience (for example - one of many - I immensly enjoyed collaborating with one of my Romanian friends on the Polish-Romanian Alliance). It would be a pleasure to work with Hungarians on some articles of mutual interest (hmm, perhaps Moldavian Magnate Wars would contain some interesting tidbits? It's a pet project of mine, now a little bit forgotten, about a place and period virtually unknown to most Westerners). Another project which I am slowly movign towards is the Polish Revolution of 1956 - an interesing and important, if less known and widespread, counterpart of the Hungarian Revolution of 1956. Other articles of likely mutual interest would include szabla or Stefan Batory, perhaps?--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 03:37, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Hungary & Liverpool & Userboxes :)
Hi! :) I was delighted with seeing, that You are not only a fellow Hungarian, but also a fellow LFC fan. =) I made some userboxes recently, maybe You would find them useful. :) User:Jaderoc/UBX/Pool Hungarian version: http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JadeRoc/UBX/Pool Best regards, JadeRoc 20:09, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Welcome back
I hope the auditions went well. István 22:41, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, welcome back, and congratulations. While you were away, I didn't do that much work on '56 except that I translated one article (Bucharest student movement of 1956), but I suggest you read this version because in its current incarnation, it's been ravaged by a Commie (an actual one), and I haven't yet summoned the energy to go back and address his changes. By the way, I much prefer Viktor Orbán in office in Hungary because he and his party are more anti-Romanian. While a hot conflict would not be in either party's interest at the moment (Romania has all the territory she needs as far as her western borders are concerned, while Hungary would be crushed), I think it's important that a certain antagonism be maintained between the two sides. Otherwise, we might be lulled into too great a rapprochement and sleepwalk into autonomy or worse for the Székelyföld (or all of Transylvania), which would not be fun. Quite Machiavellian of me, no? Finally, have you seen this stirring video? A group of brave souls gathered in Sfântu Gheorghe (75% Hungarian) on Romania's national day, singing, "Noi suntem români, noi suntem români, noi suntem aici pe veci stăpâni!" (We are Romanians, we are Romanians, here we are masters for the ages!") Sometimes that fact is forgotten, but it's good to remind people of it from time to time. Biruitorul 05:42, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

That video isn't stirring, it's frightening! That's basically a Hungarian village, and think about what those "brave souls" are saying--to me it sounds like, we rule over you, you are our inferiors, don't forget that we are masters and you are slaves. I'm not an irredentist exactly, but just think for a moment, how would you feel if there were large numbers of Romanians stuck in, say, Turkey after a not-entirely-100%-fair peace treaty. You'd be concerned for your countrymen, wouldn't you? You'd want them to be able to keep their language and culture and not be harrassed by the hypothetical Turks, wouldn't you? Then imagine on Turkey's national day, crowds of flag-waving Turks descended upon the Romanian villages to say pretty much the same thing those Romanians are saying to the Hungarians. Not so stirring now is it. K. Lásztocska 15:32, 25 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, that was somewhat deliberate, but all in good fun. And I had a hearty laugh reading the Székely manifesto. Maybe (maybe) before 1989 they had a legitimate complaint about living in "defencelessness and subordination", and certainly they lacked "freedom" (just like everyone else in Romania), but in 2006/7 such concerns are, I would say, misplaced.
 * What frightens you naturally stirs me. Look, the important point here is that that area is an integral part of Romania, and very important to our identity. Most of us accept the large Hungarian presence there as a fact of life, and they are not being denied their linguistic and cultural rights. However, it's also crucial to understand that, unlike Germany or Russia, Romania has no tradition of federalism or devolution. Thus, any moves toward local autonomy are seen as part of a sinister plot by foreign governments (ie, Budapest) to undo Trianon. While in this form the argument may be nonsense, I do believe in territorial integrity (at least when it comes to the Székelyföld - you'll notice my user page advertises my support for an independent Kurdistan, but that has more to do with my historically-rooted antagonism toward Turkey) and it's important for the national government, and members of the titular nationality, to regularly and robustly emphasise who's in charge. Of course, I underline the fact that no violence was committed, that this wasn't random (it was Romania's national day, a day in which, theoretically, the Székely should also be participating as good, loyal Romanian citizens), and that we don't know who's in that video - perhaps they're some of the 23% of Romanians who live in the city - surely you wouldn't want them to go without a good celebration of their national day?
 * About that song specifically: I think it dates to 1918, and it doesn't say Hungarians are inferior, but rather expresses joy at the fact that, for the first time in over 300 years, Transylvania - an integral part of Romania if there ever was one - is once again under the control of its rightful rulers, the ethnic majority of that region. You probably cringed when you read that, but don't feel bad - Romania herself is still lacking Bessarabia, northern Bucovina, and southern Dobrogea, and will do so for the foreseeable future.
 * 1848 sounds like a very exciting project. If you're doing stuff on Transylvania (or even if you're not), then I'd be glad to help out. Biruitorul 18:09, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. I'm honoured. Of course, if you enabled wiki-mail, we might witness some real derangement, but here, in public and bound by certain rules, we do have to curb our enthusiasm.

Incidentally, to respond to your point about Turkey: there is somewhat of an analogy: the Herţa Raion. This was part of the Romanian state from its inception, was first forcibly incorporated into the USSR in WWII, and is over 90% Romanian to this day. I regard the Ukrainian claim to it as very weak indeed, and if a band of Ukrainian nationalists waltzed in there on Ukraine's national day, waving Ukrainian flags and singing patriotic songs, I would regard that as a serious provocation. However, if you look at Transnistria, (which despite being about a third Romanian has never been Romanian territory), then I would not mind if Soviet (and Transnistria really is still Soviet) nationalists (which I know is somewhat of an oxymoron) were to do the same in a Romanian village on, for instance, the anniversary of the October Revolution. A lot of this has to do with the validity of historical claims.

I didn't say they had to be loyal Romanians, but I would expect it. Before I tackle their particular situation, let's step back a moment. There are, I think, four types of minorities in Europe today: those who have their own state elsewhere in Europe (Hungarians in Romania and Slovakia, Turks in Bulgaria, Swedes in Finland, etc.), those who have a state outside Europe (Jews, Moroccans, Algerians, Chinese, etc.), those who have no state (Kurds, Roma), and regional, stateless minorities (Basques, Welsh, Corsicans...). Probably each of these relates to the state in which they have citizenship differently. For the first group, the tendency is probably strongest to resist loyalty to their state, cultivate links with the other state, and wish for a redrawing of boundaries. But for the time being, Europe's boundaries are fixed, and it's probably a good idea for them to make the best of their current situation.

Now, to the Székely in particular. They can in fact find a comfortable place within Romania, which makes no claims to be a nation for Romanians exclusively and which offers generous protections to its minorities. It is possible (though difficult) to craft an identity which encompasses both a Székely regionalism and a de-nationalised Romanian nationalism (or not). So I'm not under any illusions - Romania's Hungarians are (I would surmise) mostly Romanians of convenience, and if the Hungarian Army ever rolled in there again the  would no doubt repeat themselves. But until that day comes, they're stuck in Romania, and they should learn to work within those confines (which aren't very burdensome).

True, they're not Romanians, but neither are the Transylvanian Saxons, or the Turks, or the Serbs - but you don't hear any noise from them, only from the Hungarians. The former have more or less all managed to live in Romania quite peaceably. When you say that their language and culture isn't Romanian, that's only true to an extent. At home, maybe their culture is more purely Hungarian, and also they are not Orthodox. However, almost all Hungarians in Romania speak Romanian - this is decidedly not the case in Hungary. Additionally, they serve in the Romanian Parliament and, when taking any governmental oath, swear loyalty to "my fatherland Romania" and to her "unity and territorial integity"; they also compete on Romania's Olympic teams, take Romanian school examinations, etc. - again, things that no Hungarian citizen does. I don't, like Ceauşescu, claim that they are "Hungarian-speaking Romanians", but they are Romanians in a civic sense, as are all Romanian citizens, regardless of ethnicity.

Did they in fact not choose to live in Romania? After all, except for 1940-4, they have been doing so since 1918. That's a long time to try and integrate into one's state. Furthermore, and this is not intended to be a lazy ultranationalist "let them leave" type of statement, but if they find life in Romania to be that unbearable, the border is now wide open. Clearly they don't, and they're attached to their ancestral lands, but they could choose to leave if it came to that. And it's more than an accident of history that they live within Romania: our claim to the region is not a mere accident. Furthermore, in a borderless Europe, it now seems rather odd to wish to put up a fence around one's own little region. With Kurdistan there isn't so much of a comparison to make, as ♠♣♥♦ (don't you get the urge to press those buttons?) the Turks have consistently oppressed the Kurds in a way Romanians haven't done, and as Kurds live in a compact mass that can easily be chopped off Turkey (and Iraq), unlike the Székely, who happen to live in Romania's dead centre.

Again, I wish Orbán were in power: Budapest would look far more sinister that way. As for the Hungarian claim on Transylvania: yeah, maybe, but with under 20% of the population now, it's bound to remain a mere historical memory. Biruitorul 20:38, 25 February 2007 (UTC)


 * It is interesting how Wikipedia attracts that sort of character. Ah, well - they spice things up, for sure. I'm actually doing fine without adminship, but I will accept a nomination starting July 1st; we'll see how that goes.
 * But he still is the head of Fidesz - if they win, he'll presumably become PM. However, with elections probably due three years from now, a lot could happen till then, and I don't discount the possibility that he could be replaced by then. However, there's always the chance for an even more fanatical successor. Dare we hope for a new Ferenc Szálasi? Maybe not, but I remember during last year's demonstrations there was talk of fascist elements among the demonstrators, and I, for one, was hoping for a successful repeat of the 6 February 1934 crisis. Not that fascism itself is desirable, but European politics is so dull these days. Biruitorul 21:40, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

No, an actual return to Arrow Cross days we can do without, but still, I thank Hungarians for doing what people across Europe had been hoping for ever since the revolutions of 1989 - that is, enlivening politics yet again. They did that in 1848 and 1956 too, which is a little ironic, as Hungarians are in a sense among the least European of Europeans (given their Asiatic origins - which are very distant, but Romanians like to make a big deal out of that). It's just one of the paradoxes that comes with being Hungarian, I suppose. Have you flipped through this book? I suspect you'd enjoy it. Biruitorul 22:18, 25 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, pretty funny, but one should know Hungarian to fully appreciate it, I would think. In return, let me point out this video. The actor is playing Gigi Becali - billionaire, football team owner, nationalist politician, a man not known for being cultured. He's in the intermission for Romeo and Juliet. I'll translate the dialogue:


 * Mr Becali, what's your opinion of the play?
 * I like it. But their Securist parents and nurse annoy me - they won't allow them to go out for a drink of juice or to a nightclub. If I lay hold of that Securist nurse, I'll punch her toothless mouth. That's what I want to do - got it?
 * You seem rather revolted.
 * Of course I'm revolted. Isn't it normal to be revolted? To see these poor kids wanting to get married and be stopped by their parents? My heart and knees are going weak.
 * Mr Becali, what do you think of the latest polls?
 * Look at this guy's face! You look like Voiculescu's man! Even at the theatre I can't be rid of that devil, Voiculescu! Take his phone! Give me that phone! Erase the tape!
 * Mr Becali, what do you hope happens in the second part?
 * What do I hope? What kind of a question is that - what do I hope in the second part? I hope Romeo takes Juliet and runs off to the Caribbean with her. I hope they ditch their Securist parents. And I hope to hire Romeo for my team, to replace [another player] whom I haven't seen today - just wait till I lay my hands on that guy too! Biruitorul 05:15, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Good night to you too. I'd skipped that video but I agree now, quite uproarious. And indeed, idle chatting is fun but time-consuming - ever try AIM? To be continued, when we've got more time. ♠♣♥♦ Biruitorul 06:40, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I was referring to the edit by IP: 84.55.83.49 which changed poor to "non existant" on the Turkmenistan human rights article. Perhaps "vandalism" isn't the right word, but it was a meaningless edit which served no purpose and it's simply not true that they're "non existant". Turkmenistan may be a totalitarian dictatorship where freedom of speech is non existant and corruption is widespread, but it's a world better in terms of gender equality than bordering Afghanistan and Iran.

Either way, no hard feelings.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Impulsion"

Revolutionary Cockade
...Im nicking your ribbon. Thanks! István 23:57, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Ashik Kerib
If you want, perhaps we should move Ashik Kerib to "Ashik Kerib (film)" and Ashik Kerib (Lermontov) to "Ashik Kerib". That would mean either copy + pasting the text from the short story article (which means we lose the little edit history that it has up to now), or taking it to WP:MOVE. Esn 03:09, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikisource, Commons
Those pics are public domain. What the pinheads on Wikisource and Commons wont realise (because they are lazy and wont look very hard) is that the *webpage* is copyrighted, not the images, which are public domain as per their statement. If I were you I might consider reverting your entry to 56 talk, it can only be a lightening rod for trouble. (and trouble goes by many well-known names here) I have no patience to argue copyvio with the hysterical pinheadeds on Wikisource or the Commons - been there, done that. István 22:57, 7 March 2007 (UTC) The contact (from last October) at AHF is atilla.kocsis[at]americanhungarianfederation.org I wrote him and later spoke to a different person who identified himself as "Mr. Takács" István 04:05, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I got carried away with the pinhead remark. Whoever undeleted the image is likely not a pinhead. ;-) I would recommend not mentioning Takács as it is completely unverifiable (I only spoke with him by phone) but they were very pleased with our work (they called me twice). BTW, did you get that Puskás book yet? Good read? Good idea shooting for FA by his death anniversary.  István 04:17, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Advice
Should I stay or should I go, as goes the song. Please advise me what would be my course of action right now. I have enough material but not know would I have support of the wikipedian population. Is that support really neccesary or I could give arguments and trust someone would judge fairly. Imbris 02:20, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I meant - does it pay off to try with mediation or some other form of judgement inside the Wiki. I will not withdraw in my debate with Panonian. -- Imbris 22:23, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Contest
Hello. About that RO-HU contest proposal: I have two ideas - 1. This is more mechanical but easier. Each group translates an FA from its own wiki on a subject we don't have on en.wiki. For example, hu:Rákóczi-szabadságharc and ro:Tâmpa. 2. This is more challenging but could be more rewarding. Each group writes an article on something not covered (or barely covered) on en.wiki that should be covered - and that has nothing to do with Romania or Hungary. Examples include the Bisbee Deportation, the 1906 UK election, and the 1951 NCAA scandal. If you have other ideas, do tell. Otherwise, I'll let you pick one of these variants (not necessarily on the subjects I proposed). Biruitorul 06:50, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * ♣♣♣Well, here was my idea. (By the way, let's do #2 later - the concept there, by the way, was to draw people out of their element and see what happens. It may be fun watching a cat climb a tree, but it would be that much more entertaining to watch one swim the length of a pool (provided it enjoyed doing so, which is rather unlikely.)) Let's each of us make an announcement on our respective boards, something like this:

Greetings, fellow [Hungarians/Romanians]! I am pleased to announce round 1 of what will hopefully prove an enduring Hungarian-Romanian positive rivalry on Wikipedia. The rules of the contest are as follows: 1. Participants are to translate (hu:Rákóczi-szabadságharc / ro:Tâmpa) into English. You may add supplementary material. 2. Within three days of this posting, you may nominate the resulting article for DYK. The team whose article gets DYKed first is the winner. 3. If the Romanians lose, all Romanians who significantly contributed to the article must write, for one week, atop their user pages: "This user supports the cession of Transylvania to Hungary". If the Hungarians lose, all Hungarians who significantly contributed to the article must write, for one week, atop their user pages: "Long live the Treaty of Trianon!" (In the event of a tie, both teams win.)


 * How does this sound so far? Biruitorul 02:58, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, five sounds good - let's say Friday. Biruitorul 17:52, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * How about - just so there's no ambiguity - "you may nominate the resulting article for DYK starting Saturday, March 17 at 08:00, Wikipedia time". Biruitorul 00:45, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, and I just looked up March 15th (I was wondering why you'd want to celebrate Caesar's assassination) - well, yes, but just wait till our team wins the contest! Biruitorul 00:53, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I did figure that out, and post the message - hopefully everything goes smoothly. Biruitorul 01:03, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok
Peace accepted...until the next war: http://www.purplemoon.com/Stickers/dove-nuke.jpg :))) PANONIAN   (talk)  11:53, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Nice that you like this dove/nuke picture. As the "greatest son of Yugoslav nations and nationalities", Josip Broz Tito said, "we should work expecting that peace will last for 100 years, but we should be prepaired expecting that war will start tomorrow". :)) PANONIAN   (talk)  21:49, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Commons 56
Hey! I'm doing quite well as my medical blog is really growing. :)

So I can't help you, but I asked the Hungarian wiki community to help you there in Commons. I hope it helps. NCurse work 16:42, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Our annonymous friend...
Hi again :) I just wish were talking under nicer circumstances. I've replied to his latest post. I don't see what he wants from us at all. I have no qualms with people discussing relevant points about the article in a civilized manner, but what he's doing is just not productive. It painted a pretty clear picture of what he thinks of us when he described we lesser mortals as "naïf". And I nearly spat out my coffee when I read him describing you as tied up in your emotions wanting Liszt to be one of your own. It's madness! Liszt not Hungarian indeed...

I think he just wants to show off his debating 'skills' arguing that Liszt wasn't Hungarian, must give him a buzz to think he's more intelligent and well-read. It's just scholarly one-up-manship. Hopefully he'll get bored with us as his play things after a bit and stop bothering us. M A Mason 21:10, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Hello again! I had to laugh on your user page, wondering just the other day what you'd do with one of those wikistress things :D I've given up on him. And I'm glad you're doing the same. If he doesn't like the article he can edit it, I for one am just going to ignore his edits to the talk page. I had a good old giggle as well at the editing of the german wikipedia :D good going there!
 * I just want to say thanks really. Sticking up for Liszt like that. It's a shame that people don't seem to care about things like this these days. I'm just sorry it came to such a stressful conclusion, and that I was pretty useless in the debate. Anyway, I've been working on it a bit today and intend on carrying on doing so. It's a long time since the mention of working towards it becoming a featured article, but I'm back up for that again. When/if you're ready for that I'd be honoured to work with you on it. M A Mason 19:54, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Haha I'm loving the response to him :D Next time he might just reconsider when wondering whether to waste his time or not! He really should talk crap ofr Germany, I didn't bother to read half of his paragraphs. Drivel. As my history teacher might say :D Hope you're keeping well, M A Mason 22:16, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Re: Rákóczi
OMG, you and Biru are crazy :DDD I'll try to do my best. :) – Alensha   talk  15:02, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

What should its English title be? (I'm sure I've seen it in one of your posts but can't find it now.) We could start by shortening the section in the Francis II Rákóczi article and moving the largest part of it into the separate article. – Alensha   talk  16:48, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm afraid it will be renamed to "uprising", but let's keep the Hungarian point of view as long as we can. BTW the original meant that it was the first significant freedom fight after Hungary was freed from Ottoman rule, not that it freed the country from them. Hungary was actually freed from the Ottomans by the Habsburgs, who kept us occupied after then (much like the Russians. Seems like every superpower which freed us from an occupying power forgot to go home after they liberated us. :) – Alensha   talk  17:16, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Oops. I thought something looked fishy about that first sentence. Én stupid külföldi vagyok. I can only hope that my translating skills will improve thanks to this project....K. Lásztocska 17:58, 12 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, kedves K. Lastochka! If it's possible, I'd like to help in this project. If you need help, please contact me on my Hungarian talk page or via Alensha – whom it seems I need to teach a lesson on Hungarian history :) --Mathae 17:18, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I never said I'm an expert on this part of history, but, Mathae, if the Habsburgs were not oppressors, we'll have a hard time explaining why Rákóczi felt the need to revolt against them. :) I translated a short paragraph now, more will come later (I'm quite busy with out-of-wiki things now...) – Alensha   talk  17:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Since basically the whole revolution was described in details in Rákóczi's article, I copied the text to the revolution's article. Now it needs to be shortened in Rákóczi's; could you do that? I'm not really good at shortening articles since I've always been an inclusionist and don't have much experience in deleting :) I also added some info about the events leading to the revolution (esp. Thököly's uprising, which was not only a significant event on its own, but also had a major effect on Rákóczi's personal life since Thököly was his stepfather). – Alensha   talk  19:34, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Köszömö
Oddly enough, with the medal you gave me, I think to have been more useful for the week I spent on English Wiki than during the three months which followed my adhesion to the French Wiki. Anyway I don't think that my hardly approximate english speaking would have been up to settle Liszt's nationality issue without your help and understanding.

So : Köszömö, kisasszony Lásztocka (in french : Merci, mademoiselle Lásztocka)

Alexander Doria 19:18, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

15 March
And a happy belated Ides of March to you too! István 14:50, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Petőfi
Thanks for keeping an eye on the article. I tried to explain the situation on its talk page. – Alensha   talk  15:21, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Why did it not qualify? :O Anyway, since you mentioned you're interested in Petőfi, thought I'd mention that one of his poems is included in the article Castle of Diósgyőr. (He wrote the poem in that castle.) Could you please check if the translation is good? I tried to make it rhyme in English too :) – Alensha   talk  20:56, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Contest
We still have 2 ½ hours to go. I'll get back to you when I'm ready. Cheater! Biruitorul 17:29, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * No problem; we're a magnanimous people. Biruitorul 17:31, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, now we can talk. First, I have to say I'm disappointed you caught your mistake on the DYK page (I knew it, but I wasn't going to tell you about it). Second, the hu.wiki version of your article is 10 pages long, so you still have some distance to go, assuming you want to cover the subject in depth, but I suppose you're not breaking any rules by submitting a shorter article. History can indeed be complex, but I assure you I didn't intend to trip you up - and by the way, you could have selected any article you wished. On the other hand (correct me if I'm wrong), your Hungarian is not as good as my Romanian, so that was an advantage for me. Maybe in the future, we can have contests just between Alensha and me.
 * I must say I enjoyed the March 15th demonstrations - the ghost of Szálasi still floats above Budapest! And where was László Sólyom? In Erdély! Need I say more?
 * Looking ahead, I'm now reading Charles Gati's Failed Illusions, and at least two interesting angles have emerged. One, he says that 182,000 fled Hungary in 1956, a somewhat lower figure than the 200,000 we cite and the 194,000 that our source claims. We should look into this. Two, he mentions having tea with Zoltán Kodály a number of times, and the composer's attitude to the regime, which was neither to fight it nor to conform, but he did write some subtly patriotic themes in later years that the censors didn't dare cut. Anyway, our article on him is essentially a stub; I'm sure there's a lot to mine in the longer hu.wiki version. Biruitorul 21:09, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It's possible that both will be featured simultaneously.
 * Ah, but were they just drunken hooligans? Or were they attempting to restore the Arrow Cross party to power?
 * Folk music is not my strong point, but maybe. I lack adequate sources, though, so I suggest you just go ahead with the Hungarian side.
 * As for learning Hungarian, well, good luck. It seems one of the hardest European languages. You're from Chicago, right? According to this, there are lots and lots of Hungarians there, and they even have their own church. That's usually a good place to find people to talk to (and talking is a great way to improve one's language skills), so maybe that would work. Especially older people who have a lot of time on their hands and will patiently guide you through the more challenging grammatical points. Biruitorul 22:07, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, that's not so good. Until you do move, though, I'd say online would be your best bet for conversation and language improvement. For instance, if you're on facebook, you'll know that there are quite a few Hungarian clubs there, so you could talk to some of the participants, either through messages there or on AIM. I'm sure you're right about the demonstration participants, which is actually reassuring if you don't like fascism. Biruitorul 22:51, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Sad, isn't it? I'd even prepared my message : This user supports the cession of Transylvania to Hungary.  . Well, at least we have two new articles. Mine needs some more work, and yours probably needs more (though I can't say for sure what's in the hu.wiki version).
 * By the way, I've found a really great site. A lot of that material should be here. In fact, perhaps someone could contact the site owners for a copyright release, because our coverage of the period is, by comparison, quite weak. Biruitorul 18:56, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

For when you come back: we won! Biruitorul 15:45, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Haha, excellent (in a Béla Lugosi sort of voice, though given that he was a Hungarian from the Banat whose native town was ceded to Romania by the Treaty of Trianon, invoking his name in this context is a bit off). Perhaps the tiny yellow letters violate the spirit of the agreement, but as I was planning to do exactly the same thing, it would be hypocritical even for me to complain. Anyway, I'm glad to see that you uphold the territorial integrity of Romania, Slovakia, etc. Bwahahahahaha! "On the surface, Hungary between the wars was placid, but underneath, her people seethed with rage". Biruitorul 16:30, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm more of a religious, mystical blood-and-soil (though not a Nazi) romantic ethno-cultural nationalist - assuming one can hold all those ideas at once. And I'm all for stable borders to Romania's west; in the north, southeast and east I'm an open irredentist. By the way, there was an interesting article in a Romanian paper about a Székely centenarian and his memories of the 1918 union. I'll translate bits if you want, or you can try to learn yet another language - one which you'll probably pick up a little more quickly! Biruitorul 02:36, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, we do seem on the same wavelength. (Though as a religious nationalist, I was just recently almost weeping with emotion at the thought of a rather more distant, non-Romanian event.) And while that is indeed quite a difference, I haven't even mentioned my own slight, but extant Hungarian ancestry . Biruitorul 03:57, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Request
Hi. Would you mind checking out this, this, and this—and let me know what you think? Thanks, Khoikhoi 20:20, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * No problem, thanks for your help! Khoikhoi 02:08, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Priskin
Oh, not Priskin again. Did you see what was going on in huwiki? (see hu:Vita:Szlovákiai magyarok (where the war started), hu:Vita:Ismert szlovákiai magyarok listája (my failed attempt to resolve the issue by creating a list where it can be detailed what links does each person have to Slovakia), hu:Vita:Priskin Tamás, and the page histories.) I'm not even sure the guy is famous enough to have a WP article about him, but this debate was one of the bloodiest wars in huwiki's recent history.

Mt7 was not attacking you, he just attacked Zello and the Hungarian community in general, about you he only said you had no arguments to support what you said. – Alensha   talk  16:52, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Re: possible troublemaker
Hmm, which specific articles? Also, can you give me diffs of the harassment? Thanks, Khoikhoi 02:05, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I was going to warn him, but I see that you already have. I think that the dispute at Image talk:Serbia02.png just isn't going to solve itself—have you tried WP:RFM? Khoikhoi 05:20, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Requests for arbitration/Darwinek
Hello,

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Requests for arbitration/Darwinek. Please add any evidence you may wish the arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Darwinek/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Requests for arbitration/Darwinek/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Newyorkbrad 19:03, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, but I think I'll stay out of this one. :) K. Lásztocska 19:16, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

A star for you



 * Well, it's just like Schumann and Brahms (and Chopin too I guess), whose lifes parallel their music so much, you just have to do the best you can. I wish I knew more about Liszt though, because if I did I would become my own scholar. ;) Just try to intertwine it as best as you can. :) &mdash; $PЯING  rαgђ  19:54, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

And so say all of us. Might I say a resounding "Köszönöm!" for your efforts?! Sorry to see you depressed, life has a horrible way of getting us down. Hope you feel better soon :) M A Mason 22:21, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I would say something in Hungarian but what I hear I can't spell and what I read I can't pronounce. :P &mdash; $PЯING  rαgђ  23:31, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * How about this? ;-) István 02:48, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

István!! Are you back?!

Thanks for all the kind words, guys, it's really nice to know I'm among friends here. :) K. Lásztocska 21:22, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes and no - the real world is still taking all my time, but I do peek in once and again because I suppose Im one who cant live without wikihol (whatever you call that type). I'll be 100% back probably in May. István 21:58, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

A "wikiholic"? Yeah, me too. ;) I'l be 100% gone by mid-June and will have severely limited internet access all summer. And then after that I'll be in conservatory (assuming I don't get too many more rejection letters) and it'll be anyone's guess how much free time I'll have. K. Lásztocska 22:09, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikimood
Hey, I have just seen your wikimood. I am so sorry. I hope you will be better soon. I have been through a period when both the real life was problematic and some people here annoyed the hell out of me. Do not give up! I am sure it will not last for long. Tankred 17:07, 27 March 2007 (UTC)