User talk:K6ka/Archives/2014/May

The Signpost: 30 April 2014

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Talkback
- Damian Zaremba (talk • contribs) 17:03, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

Response to your message about "vandalism"
Well, i think that calling jupiter a planet or saying that an eagle is a bird is not vandalism, off course if you think that a child rapist can be called a "children's friend", it's ok. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.255.208.157 (talk) 02:39, 4 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I hit rollback primarily due to instinct. How many cases of vandalism did I see that involved "George Bush is a terrorist" or something of the like? Then I saw the previous revert and I'm not sure what else to do with it. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 02:55, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Adeiny Hechavarria
Your picture was incorrect. Adeiny plays for the Miami Marlins so I replaced it with a picture of him with his current team. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Heywhatsup222 (talk • contribs) 12:11, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

About jonas brothers being a the christian bands list
Where does it say that they are a christian band, or what made you think they're christian? that's why I tried to remove it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.97.216.18 (talk) 16:38, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
 * It said so in the citation provided, which links to here. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 16:41, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Username can't be a company
I wanted to get some clarification on the username policies. I submitted a username request to have my account name changed to the name of the company for whom it's for, but I received a message saying the username can't be a company name. However, when I search multiple other companies we encounter on a daily basis, I see that their usernames and the names that appears at the top of their pages are in fact their company names. Can you please explain? Thank you. Family Features 19:23, 6 May 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by FamilyFeaturesEditorialSyndicate (talk • contribs)


 * While having a company name as your username is against the username policy, having a username that indicates that you're an individual that's part of a company is okay (e.g. Nicole at EA Games). Also, are you confusing a userpage with an article? My userpage is not a Wikipedia article - Electronic Arts is not a userpage. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 19:57, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. Perhaps I am confusing a userpage with an article. Ultimately, I want to create something that looks exactly like the Electronic Arts example you showed me. So, does that mean that under my userpage (FamilyFeaturesEditorialSyndicate), I need to create a new article for Family Features? Family Features 20:15, 6 May 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by FamilyFeaturesEditorialSyndicate (talk • contribs)


 * Nah, you probably want to develop your article on your userpage or a subpage of your userpage. You might want to use Articles for Creation as a handy guide for creating articles. Please keep in mind the Five pillars of Wikipedia when developing your article. If you have questions, you can ask at the Teahouse and a team of friendly, experienced editors will assist you. Also, please sign your posts on a talk page by adding four tildes ( ~ ) at the end of your remarks. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 20:24, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

RE: MMORPG
Your change to MMORPG: what do you mean by realiable source? It is pure grammar. Look it up! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.16.157.204 (talk) 18:51, 7 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Just like "Two persons or more" is technically bad grammar - yet it's still the "formal" term. Anyways, MMO indeed stands for "Massively Multiplayer Online", per this, this, and this. It's just the way it is. Wikipedia reports on what other sources say - we should never say anything that another source doesn't say as well (i.e. not a venue of original research. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 19:14, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
 * What's funny is that it's not bad grammar: "massively" is an adverb modifying the adjective "multiplayer". Of course, even if it were bad grammar, you're 100% correct that we'd go by reliable sources. (Sorry, didn't mean to intrude, I just saw your message on the IP's Talk page.) Woodroar (talk) 20:01, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Age of Earth
I honestly feel that the assumption that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old is a false statement. First of all, radiometric dating is a huge flaw because it is what we think how old that piece of rock is. How do we know is scientists removed a parent or daughter chemicals added to the rock?Science requires that there's a logical, orderly universe. And that only makes sense if there's a logical, orderly God who created that universe and maintains it in a logical, orderly fashion. You see, if the universe were just an accident, a by-product of a Big Bang, then why would it have any order at all? Why would it obey laws.like the laws of physics that you've heard of? Well, you see, that makes sense if God made the universe, if there's a mind behind it. And that's what the Bible teaches. So science actually requires the Bible to be true in order to work. The Earth is really about ~ 6,000 years of age stated by the Bible. Why are scientists wasting their time making assumptions when they can easily stick with the truth. I would really be offended if nothing was done about this. Please at least mention something about Christianity and the Earth's real age of 6,000 years. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.124.2.201 (talk) 22:41, 7 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I have no idea why you have come running to me when I did not even revert your edit to the article. Remember that we need reliable sources for everything in the encyclopedia. I know this is a very heated debate, and since it never seems to go anywhere, I withdraw from said arguments and sit on the fence instead. In short - this topic barely interests me. I would advise you instead to take this discussion to the article talk page instead of some random, innocent editor. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 22:54, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

milo
ya sorry revert it all — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.36.76.141 (talk) 10:56, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 07 May 2014

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Prof Francis Pereira
The info about Prof Francis Pereira is true. I just received the message through email. 68.113.195.92 (talk) 13:02, 10 May 2014 (UTC)kurusj


 * We need a reliable source to back it up. See this page on how we cite sources on Wikipedia. Generally, if someone e-mailed to me that my grandpa has died, I wouldn't believe him unless I knew the person that sent me an email. Also, if my grandpa was somehow notable to have his own Wikipedia article - try as I might, but I can't add his death to the article until a third-party source, such as a newspaper, reported on it. Simply adding it and using "I saw him die" or "I got an email" is viewed as original research, which is prohibited on Wikipedia, unfortunately. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs)  13:07, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

COI Removed, TV2me
hi! I noted that I'd studied and confirmed the article via the references; nothing was erroneous, dubious or expressed in an unfactual tone, so removed the COI. I understand the COI's concern with the fact article citied other work by the same Schafer... as would be fitting, though! I think therefore that the COI is itself misleading, wouldn't you agree?

50.67.176.209 (talk)Fil


 * Fixing the COI isn't my concern. What did concern me was how you removed conversations from the talk page. It's better to just write "I fixed the COI ~ " than to remove the conversation. Why else do you think they archive conversations at WP:ANI years after the issue was resolved? Because someone might be curious, that's why ;) --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 11:56, 13 May 2014 (UTC)


 * ) sorry - understood. Apologies for my not having observed the RED warning - novice ;) 50.67.176.209 (talk) 12:05, 13 May 2014 (UTC) Fil

Putney Magpies
Mate can you please put the Putney Magpies detail back? I have played for the club for 5 years and been secretary for 2 (Rob Paterson). The president is Phil Crow and I have also asked him to contact you. I appreciate the job you do but how on earth would you know what our nickname is and what is appropriate for the page? I didn't use any vulger language or 'vandalism' as you put it. Please put it back 2.28.11.145 (talk) 17:05, 13 May 2014 (UTC) Rob Paterson

Putney magpies
Hi,

I'm the president of a London based Australian football club. My name is Phil Crow. We're new to Updating Wikipedia.

You have just reverted a change a club member (Patto) made to update the page. Can you please cancel that revert as his changes were valid.

Thank you Phil/crowie — Preceding unsigned comment added by PhilCrowie (talk • contribs) 17:05, 13 May 2014 (UTC)


 * For starters, I don't believe that you are the real "president of the Putney Magpies". But let's not get ahead of ourselves. Please cite a reliable source for your statements. Original research, such as personal experience, is not accepted. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 17:12, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Mate feel free to visit the Putney Magpies Facebook Page and you will see that both Phil Crow and I (Rob Paterson) have been on that page for a number of years as players and of recent time a more active role. I don't know why we're having to convince you that Phil is legitimately the President. Feel free to come to the club or ask the question on the Putney Magpies facebook page and see the response you get. Put it back now buddy because it's all correct 2.28.11.145 (talk) 17:27, 13 May 2014 (UTC) Rob Paterson


 * I was referring to you and PhilCrowie claiming to be members of Putney Magpies here on Wikipedia. Anyone can create an account and claim to be a person, i.e. impersonation. Even if a user account named "Barack Obama" came right here to Wikipedia and asked, "I want this and this changed to my article", the response would be "No". Also Rob, you are editing under an IP address and I can't confirm your true identity with an IP address either. Everything on Wikipedia requires a citation, and I am asking for one. I am not asking for more original research or unsourced statements. Nor do I require more "Put it back because I know it's right". --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 18:36, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

PCA Riesentoter section
can you tell me why exactly you reverted my changes to the PCA Riesentöter section - I was adding more info from our website

199.200.27.7 (talk) 17:04, 14 May 2014 (UTC)


 * The passage appeared to have been copied off a website - i.e. COPYVIO. It was also unencyclopedic, as it added an address, contact information, etc. The thing was also written in a slanted point of view - we require that articles are written in a neutral point of view, i.e. no "I" or "we". Also, when you said "our website", you give me the impression that you may have a Conflict of Interest in the subject, in which you might want to ask another editor for assistance in writing the article. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 17:51, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Regarding Your Reverting on Aristophanes
Thanks! I saw your Revert Here and posted a Page protection Request Here. Thanks For the Edit. Dudel250 (talk) 11:14, 16 May 2014 (UTC)


 * No problem. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 11:51, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Angus Taylor's Wikipedia page
Dear K6ka

I am not sure if you are Wikipedia or you are one of the trolls. It is all very unclear to me how this all works. Here's the explanation anyway.....

Angus Taylor's Wikipedia page has been hijacked by trolls from the Australian wind industry. I am his wife. I have legal qualifications and I help with his media in a volunteer capacity because his office is understaffed.

The wind industry has trolled him on facebook, then twitter and now wikipedia. The posts by others are so misleading and unbalanced that they are bordering on defamatory. Someone has spent a lot of time very carefully preparing information which at first glance and to an unsuspecting reader appears fairly sourced and credible. But the posts are misleading and lacking in balance - and frankly very unfair. The post comes from persons with a vested interest in diminishing Angus's reputation in a debate about wind energy that is currently occurring in Australia - in which we assume it is perceived by them that he has some influence (which is debatable, but neither here nor there).

For me or Angus to deal with (effectively defend) the Wikipedia page by correcting and restoring balance under Wiki rules would take enormous time and resources, which we do not have.

This experience has made me appreciate that Wikipedia is unsustainable as a brand, if it is so easy for trolls and badly motivated people to alter what is basic, balanced and factual - and then so incredibly difficult to do anything about it. We don't have time to sit on a computer and play games and spend inordinate time sourcing material for the counter argument.

In essence, the explanation for removing the text that we removed is that the page has been trolled, and we have tried to take down the offending information.

I understand one of Angus's staff has approached Wikipedia but there has not been any progress yet, and in the meantime his reputation is trashed.

Can you help? Suggestions? This has been going on for a few weeks now. We take the info down and they out it back up. We just don't have the resources or time to keep playing the games the trollers are intent on playing. The next step is to instruct defamation lawyers, I guess?

Louise Louiseclegg (talk) 13:12, 16 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Hello. The Wikimedia Foundation, while having power over Wikipedia, don't write or add to content in most of its articles. These are dealt with by the community, most of them volunteer editors. I do not work for Wikimedia; I am just an editor.


 * Your edit was reverted because it removed a large amount of content 1. Without an explanation in the edit summary and 2. Content that was sourced. Wikipedia writes in a neutral point of view and does not see reason for excluding information that was well publicized by reliable sources. If Barack Obama did something silly in the public, the media would publicize it heavily, and it would inevitably make its way into the Wikipedia article. While it may be difficult to remove it, it's important to make sure it does not give readers the immediate impression that the person was evil - i.e. a "neutral point of view".


 * Consider browsing our policy on the biographies of living persons, and bring this discussion to the article's talk page. If needed, you may ask for advice at the Teahouse, where experienced, friendly editors will assist you, and if the matter becomes serious, you may bring it to the Biographies of Living Persons Noticeboard for an administrator response. But there's not much I can say about this though - I only caught your edit while on recent changes patrol and have no interest in the subject... I hope the links helped, though. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 15:37, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Clifton Community School
Hi,

Can you help me get this page semi protected from new registered/anonymous users misusing the page and also vandalizing the page. That would be grateful.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifton_Community_School

Thanks, Joe Parkinson (talk) 14:56, 16 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I see you've already made a request at WP:RFPP. I'm not an admin so I can't protect the page myself. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 15:37, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 14 May 2014

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Notice
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

RE: Charlotte Hornets
instead of removing my "vandalism" why not move the page to Charlotte Hornets? no other NBA team article is title team name followed by (National Basketball Association) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.168.144.47 (talk) 16:58, 20 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Propose changes on the designated talk page for the article, and not in the article itself. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 17:01, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

VisualEditor newsletter—May 2014


Did you know? The cite menu offers quick access to up to five citation templates. If your wiki has enabled the "" menu, press "" and select the appropriate template from the menu.

Existing citations that use these templates can be edited either using the "" tool or by selecting the reference and choosing the "" item in the "" menu.

Read the user guide for more information.

Since the last newsletter, the VisualEditor team has mostly worked on the new citation tool, improving performance, reducing technical debt, and other infrastructure needs.

The biggest change in the last few weeks is the new citation template menu, labeled "". The new citation menu offers a locally configurable list of citation templates on the main toolbar. It adds or opens references using the simplified template dialog that was deployed last month. This tool is in addition to the "" item in the "" menu, and it is not displayed unless it has been configured for that wiki. To enable this tool on your wiki, see the instructions at VisualEditor/Citation tool.

Eventually, the VisualEditor team plans to add autofill features for these citations. When this long-awaited feature is created, you could add an ISBN, URL, DOI or other identifier to the citation tool, and VisualEditor would automatically fill in as much information for that source as possible. The concept drawings can be seen at mw:VisualEditor/Design/Reference Dialog, and your ideas about making referencing quick and easy are still wanted.


 * There is a new Beta Feature for setting content language and direction. This allows editors who have opted in to use the "" tool in the "" menu to add HTML span tags that label text with the language and as being left-to-right (LTR) or right-to-left (RTL), like this:   .  This tool is most useful for pages whose text combines multiple languages with different directions, common on Right-to-Left wikis.
 * The tool for editing mathematics formulae in VisualEditor has been slightly updated and is now available to all users, as the "" item in the "" menu. It uses LaTeX like in the wikitext editor.
 * The layout of template dialogs has been changed, putting the label above the field. Parameters are now called "fields", to avoid a technical term that many editors are unfamiliar with.
 * TemplateData has been expanded: You can now add "suggested" parameters in TemplateData, and VisualEditor will display them in the template dialogs like required ones.  "Suggested" is recommended for parameters that are commonly used, but not actually required to make the template work.  There is also a new type for TemplateData parameters:  wiki-file-name, for file names.  The template tool can now tell you if a parameter is marked as being obsolete.
 * Some templates that previously displayed strangely due to absolute CSS positioning hacks should now display correctly.
 * Several messages have changed: The notices shown when you save a page have been merged into those used in the wikitext editor, for consistency.  The message shown when you "" out of an edit is clearer.  The beta dialog notice, which is shown the first time you open VisualEditor, will be hidden for logged-in users via a user preference rather than a cookie.  As a result of this change, the beta notice will show up one last time for all logged-in users on their next VisualEditor use after Thursday's upgrade.
 * Adding a category that is a redirect to another category prompts you to add the target category instead of the redirect.
 * In the "" dialog, it is no longer possible to set a redundant border for thumbnail and framed images.
 * There is a new Template Documentation Editor for TemplateData. You can test it by editing a documentation subpage (not a template page) at Mediawiki.org: edit mw:Template:Sandbox/doc, and then click "Manage template documentation" above the wikitext edit box.  If your community would like to use this TemplateData editor at your project, please contact product manager James Forrester or file an enhancement request in Bugzilla.
 * There have been multiple small changes to the appearance: External links are shown in the same light blue color as in MediaWiki.  This is a lighter shade of blue than the internal links.  The styling of the "" (character formatting) drop-down menu has been synchronized with the recent font changes to the Vector skin.  VisualEditor dialogs, such as the "" dialog, now use a "loading" animation of moving lines, rather than animated GIF images.  Other changes were made to the appearance upon opening a page in VisualEditor which should make the transition between reading and editing be smoother.
 * The developers merged in many minor fixes and improvements to MediaWiki interface integration (e.g., edit notices), and made VisualEditor handle Education Program pages better.
 * At the request of the community, VisualEditor has been deployed to Commons as an opt-in. It is currently available by default for 161 Wikipedia language editions and by opt-in through Beta Features at all others, as well as on several non-Wikipedia sites.

Looking ahead: The toolbar from the PageTriage extension will no longer be visible inside VisualEditor. More buttons and icons will be accessible from the keyboard. The "" link will be moved out of the "" menu, into the "" menu. Support for upright image sizes (preferred for accessibility) and inline images is being developed. You will be able to see the Table of Contents while editing. Looking further out, the developers are also working on support for viewing and editing hidden HTML comments. VisualEditor will be available to all users on mobile devices and tablet computers. It will be possible to upload images to Commons from inside VisualEditor.

If you have questions or suggestions for future improvements, or if you encounter problems, please let everyone know by posting a note at mw:VisualEditor/Feedback or by joining the office hours on Thursday, 19 June 2014 at 10:00 UTC. If you'd like to get this newsletter on your own page (about once a month), please subscribe at w:en:Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Newsletter for English Wikipedia only or at meta:VisualEditor/Newsletter for any project. Thank you! Whatamidoing (WMF) 22:16, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Japanese cyberpunk
Please read article first! Also i use description when removed anime,manga,game section from this article. I dont know who put this section in article where clear specified: Japanese Cyberpunk is a genre of underground film produced in Japan starting in the 1980s. Not a game! And Japanese Cyberpunk not "any cyberpunk made in japan"! Its a form of local mix of western cyberpunk ideas (not visual and plot!) and interpretation of western body horror! Please, help me defend this page from mindless editors! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.191.35.74 (talk) 14:35, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm on anti-vandalism patrol and the goal is to reverse vandalism quickly. There's usually no time to view the entire article before making a decision. Next time, you may want to 1. Use a proper, valid edit summary, 2. Do not use "GTFO" as your edit summary because recent changes patrollers do use edit summaries to determine whether an edit needs to be reverted, and 3. You may want to discuss on the article talk page before reverting the article again as this falls under the category of edit warring. I won't help you "defend the article against mindless editors" because I'm not a habitual edit warrior nor do I have any plans on being one. Comment on the content, not the editor(s). --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 15:00, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

change of date and place of birth of Keri-Lynn Wilson conductor
Hello,

My name is Lynn Sharples and I am Keri-Lynn Wilson's mother. I have tried to change the information on your Wiki site about her. I gave birth to Keri-Lynn on May 17, 1967 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

It is my birthday on May 18 and perhaps because my name is LYNN, you thought this was my daughter. She also has Lynn as a part of her first name.

I hope you will correct this quickly, as it gave us a big problem in Iasi, Romania this past week. The opera administration thought her birthday was the 18th but heard me say it was her birthday on the 17th. They did a big onstage party for her after she finished conducting Don Giovanni in Iasi on May 17. They said they were confused but were glad they heard me confirm her birth date and proceeded with the special presentation.

This was a small incident but the information you have is totally incorrect and could lead to further misunderstandings. Kindly correct this for her and me asap.

Thank you kindly, Lynn Sharples — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.84.199.174 (talk) 17:00, 23 May 2014 (UTC)


 * On Wikipedia, we ask that all information be properly cited and backed up by reliable sources. We have a page that details how to add citations, see WP:CITE. Wikipedia discourages the use of original research (i.e. personal experiences), as these cannot be properly verified. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 17:02, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 21 May 2014

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Talkback
Replied to your question.  Go  Phightins  !  02:04, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

World distribution of wealth
Hello! Err... I'm a bit confused. I recently received one of your messages saying that I vandlized the World distribution of wealth page, but I'm sure I didn't edit anything at all. In fact, I don't think I've ever edited anything for the last two years or so. I visited the page, that's true, but I'm really not quite sure what's going on anymore.

What edit, exactly, did you think I made? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.53.98.54 (talk) 20:03, 26 May 2014 (UTC)


 * It was likely that the edit was made by a previous user of this IP address. IP addresses can change owners over time, sometimes daily, sometimes every time a user connects to the Internet. So the warning probably landed in your lap instead. You might want to create an account of your own, so any messages sent to you will only go to you. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 20:08, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Vandalism
Good work on the reverting, you're doing a good job! Zarcadia (talk) 16:53, 27 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks! --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 16:57, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Maternal healthcare in angola
Hi! i just saw your edit where u replaced Angola with "people". I reverted it, but I saw you working and anti-vandalizing the article! Good luck editing the rest but keep the correct english format in mind! :) Tomato 33 (talk) 16:47, 27 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I think you're barking up the wrong tree. The edit was made by the vandalizing IP, not me. I was the one who reverted ;) --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 16:57, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * You're totally right, sorry :) Tomato 33 (talk) 20:21, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Untitled
hello k6ka I don't get why you edited my edit please contact e on my talk page please give answer — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jinthedemon (talk • contribs) 18:36, 23 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Which edit are you talking about? Please don't expect me to be able to read your mind through an Internet connection. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 21:19, 23 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Without any magic trickery, I manage to which edit the user ment. Ta, da! ¨ (t) Josve05a  (c)


 * Thanks Josve05a. I reverted your edit because none of the games you listed exists. The Sims Douchebag? What? As an avid player of The Sims myself, along with being an admin of The Sims Wiki, I know immediately that a game with that title doesn't exist. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs)  00:26, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Birthday
Can you add Matt Stone's birthday. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:96C0:AF00:183:C6F0:B21E:B2F5 (talk) 00:12, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I responded over at Talk:Matt_Stone. I'll need a citation first... --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 00:15, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Nooooo.....I saw the subjet 'Birthday' in my watchlist, and off I ran to find a nice cake to K6ka, but to my horror when I opened the talk page, to see that is wasn't K6ka's birthday... (t) Josve05a  (c) 00:17, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
 * My birthday was May 2.... so unfortunately you missed it. --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 00:26, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

AvanT-Garde Page
Hi, I didn't know how to comment on why it had been deleted, but a comment that is still there explains that this statement makes no chronological sense and I checked sources to double check what it could possibly mean, to no avail. The statement is completely wrong and very misleading, Regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.164.218.137 (talk)


 * I don't understand.... do you mean that no sources, other than the one given, made any sense to you? --k6ka (talk &#124; contribs) 19:30, 30 May 2014 (UTC)