User talk:Kahooper

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AfD nomination of FantasyLiterature.net
An article that you have been involved in editing, FantasyLiterature.net, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Articles for deletion/FantasyLiterature.net. Thank you. Deor (talk) 16:40, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
 * In case you don't have that page watchlisted, I thought I'd let you know that I responded to your message on Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/FantasyLiterature.net. Deor (talk) 17:24, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Links to FantasyLiterature.net
Please do not add inappropriate external links to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a collection of links, nor should it be used for advertising or promotion. Inappropriate links include (but are not limited to) links to personal web sites, links to web sites with which you are affiliated, and links that attract visitors to a web site or promote a product. See the external links guideline and spam guideline for further explanations. Since Wikipedia uses nofollow tags, external links do not alter search engine rankings. If you feel the link should be added to the article, please discuss it on the article's talk page rather than re-adding it. Deor (talk) 22:45, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi Deor, (I posted this in your talk area before realizing that it probably needs to go here. Sorry, I'm new to this and just starting to figure it out.) I understand the reasons you mention for removing the links. However, I'd like to ask you to reconsider for a couple of reasons:

1. Our FantasyLiterature.net author pages have extra, relevant information that is not on Wikipedia. We have publisher's descriptions of novels, novels listed in order by series, author interview, reviews, upcoming publication dates, and we display the cover art of each novel. These are features that any person interested in a fantasy author definitely wants to see.

2. Current Wikipedia author pages have external links to very similar websites. Fantastic Fiction is just one of several. It is similar to our site, except that it does not have interviews or reviews or the latest coverart. You have removed my link from Joan Aiken's page, but kept a link for a very old page (updated 20 years ago) of a personal website: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tibsnjoan/JoanAiken/  How is my page not more relevant?

3. I AM affiliated with the website, but I'll bet that many of your external links are created by people affiliated with the sites they list.

4. I am not promoting a product or trying to alter search engine rankings. I think we have an excellent resource that would be extremely useful for people who are looking for information about particular fantasy authors. If I were looking up these authors, I would certainly want to know about FantasyLiterature.net.

Thanks for hearing me out, and I hope you'll reconsider. I admire your work (mostly). :)  Kahooper (talk) 19:07, 10 February 2008 (UTC)Kahooper


 * The template message I left you above explains the correct procedure for adding a link to your own Web site: "If you feel the link should be added to the article, please discuss it on the article's talk page rather than re-adding it." Adding the link across multiple articles without discussion is not the way to go (especially when you use an edit summary that suggests that the linked page contains bibliographical information when, in fact, all it contains is a review of a single book by one of your site's "approved" reviewers). Deor (talk) 13:33, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Number 4 of the Wikipedia guidelines for external links states that links SHOULD be included to:

"4. Sites with other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article, such as reviews and interviews."

FantasyLiterature.net contains reviews and interviews and therefore, according to Wikipedia guidelines, should be included. I own the website and will ask our readers not to add links to author articles that we do not have reviews or interviews for.

Thank you. Kahooper (talk) 19:12, 16 February 2008 (UTC)kahooper

Conflict of interest
If you have a close connection to some of the people, places or things you have written about, you may have a conflict of interest. In keeping with Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy, edits where there is a conflict of interest, or where such a conflict might reasonably be inferred from the tone of the edit and the proximity of the editor to the subject, are strongly discouraged. If you have a conflict of interest, you should avoid or exercise great caution when:
 * 1) editing articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with;
 * 2) participating in deletion discussions about articles related to your organization or its competitors;
 * 3) linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Spam);
 * and you must always:
 * 1) avoid breaching relevant policies and guidelines, especially neutral point of view, verifiability, and autobiography.

For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have conflict of interest, please see Business' FAQ. For more details about what constitutes a conflict of interest, please see Conflict of Interest. WLU (talk) 22:36, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I own the website and will ask our readers not to add links to author articles that we do not have reviews or interviews for.

You state that the website contains links to interviews - all I saw was reviews for the books by non-notable sources; the page shouldn't just have any reviews, it should have reviews from people who are worth listening to. And random individuals' reviews are not appropriate - why should we care what an anonymous individual says? What is to prevent anyone with a web page from linking to the page as an external link? Another aspect of the policy is that links should be kept to a minimum, and only added when there is something of merit included in the linked page. There are no interviews with Ms. Wurts on your site, so at least on that page it is inappropriate. Also note that links with advertising are not appropriate, and there's a considerable amount at the bottom of the page, and every single book on the page appears to link directly to amazon. The only thing it adds to the page is the opinion of someone, identified only by initials (note that it really doesn't matter who this is, unless it is a major, and notable, book reviewer).

Further, you should never be adding that site to pages, as you can be blocked for violating our conflict of interest policy. If you think I am being unreasonable, feel free to bring it up on the administrator's noticeboard or Wikipedia talk:External links. Further, now several other editors have removed your website from the various pages, so it is not just me. If you like, we can also bring this up at WP:3O, WP:RFC or with an administrator for their opinion, but I am very sure that their opinion will be the same as mine. WLU (talk) 22:36, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Please note as well, that merely having reviews and interviews does not mean we must link to the page, only that they could be linked. If several people disagree with your edit, you should seek consensus on talk pages first before re-adding them.  WLU (talk) 22:49, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Administrator's noticeboard
My apologies, I should have linked to this sooner - there is a discussion about you on the AN - Administrators%27_noticeboard. Apparently you are a she rather than a he, I was not aware. My apologies for this as well, I will refer to you as female from now on but I won't correct the past as it's a lot of work and in some cases it would mess up the links. WLU (talk) 00:04, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

No problem -- I understand. How could you know? I have responded on the Administrator's noticeboard. Thank you for directing me to it -- I wouldn't have known about it. I hope you'll read my response because I have addressed the issue of unnamed reviewers there. Also, I'd like to say that I do not have a conflict of interest in the article about Janny Wurts. She discovered and praised FanLit.net on her forum here: http://www.paravia.com/discus/messages/9/2862.html?1201897487 and has told me by email how much she liked the site. So, there is proof that we are not connected in any way other than mutual admiration. Kahooper (talk) 03:06, 17 February 2008 (UTC)kahooper
 * Her opinion is still ultimately irrelevant to the contents of her wikipage. WLU (talk) 13:59, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

okay Kahooper (talk) 18:32, 17 February 2008 (UTC)kahooper

Discussion about external links to FantasyLiterature.net
I'm trying to consolidate this discussion (which seems to be in several places and is making me dizzy), so let's continue here

Kahooper (talk) 21:53, 22 February 2008 (UTC)kahooper

Apparently, this discussion has died down with no consensus. I will do as has been suggested by most of you: suggest links on author discussion pages. If editors feel like they should be included, then they can add them instead of me. Thank you for all of the useful discussion -- I appreciate it! Kahooper (talk) 20:42, 26 February 2008 (UTC)kahooper