User talk:Karen McAulay

Welcome!
Hello, Karen McAulay, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful:


 * Introduction and Getting started
 * Contributing to Wikipedia
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page and How to develop articles
 * How to create your first article
 * Simplified Manual of Style

You may also want to complete the Wikipedia Adventure, an interactive tour that will help you learn the basics of editing Wikipedia. You can visit the Teahouse to ask questions or seek help.

Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or, and a volunteer should respond shortly. Again, welcome! --Ipigott (talk) 07:27, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Women in Red
Hi there, Karen McAulay, and welcome to Women in Red. The best way to gain experience in editing is to go through The Wikipedia Adventure. Once you feel ready to create your own articles, you should look at our Ten Simple Rules. Please let me know if you run into any difficulties or need assistance. Happy editing!--Ipigott (talk) 07:31, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Well, I've done my Adventure, and I understood everything there, but I still don't understand how I get started. The only place I can find is to create a Draft - but I am concerned that this doesn't sound like the process as described in your Primer for Writing. Basically, I type my lady's name in the box, and she gets a red link because there's no article - but I cannot find a 5th bullet point down saying Special:Mypage/file name. I can't find any bullet points at all, only the link that eventually becomes a draft.

If I do that, can I share it with someone at the project before publishing it? Or does it sit waiting until Wikipedia approves it?

Oh dear, feeling more and more stupid now!

Karen McAulay (talk) 15:31, 19 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Don't worry. We have all experienced that kind of difficulty. You should add the name of the article to your user space as follows: . You can try it out in your next message here. That should produce a red link. If you click on it, you will receive a prompt to create the article. Then just start writing, previewing and publishing changes. Alternatively you can add the same sequence to the search box at the top of the page without the square brackets and press enter. Let me know if it works. If not, tell me the name of the article you want to create and I'll create it for you.--Ipigott (talk) 16:26, 19 November 2019 (UTC)


 * So its now at User:Karen McAulay/Elizabeth Williams (cataloguer).--Ipigott (talk) 20:00, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

OK, so the article is there, but I couldn't work out the What links here, and in no way do I seem to be linked to Women in Red, or the fact that November is Libraries Month - or anything else. Please could you take a look and see what needs to be done next? Sorry to dump this on you! Karen McAulay (talk) 21:10, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Here it is - I had a job tracking it down! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Karen_McAulay/Elizabeth_Williams_n%C3%A9e_Lambert_(cataloguer)_1789-1875 Karen McAulay (talk) 21:35, 19 November 2019 (UTC)


 * I think I first need to iron out a few misunderstandings and then comment on your draft article. I had tried to suggest a more reasonable title but I see you used the one you had put together yourself. Don't worry about it - we can always move the article when it has progressed sufficiently.


 * You can't expect anything under "What links here" until the links have been established by including the article title in other articles. We don't usually do this for draft articles. The same is true for links to Women in Red. When an article is created (or moved) to mainspace, if we have created the article under Women in Red, we usually include a template on the article's talk page which creates a banner mentioning Women in Red. You can, by the way, find your article easily by typing its title into the search box at the top of any Wikipedia page.


 * As for the article, you have included a lot of detail but in its present form it would not be accepted. You must start by explaining why the person is notable and what her main achievements have been. The last few articles I have created are Anette Fischer, Aase Bredsdorff, Laura Aller and Lilly Brændgaard. Look at the first few lines of each and you'll see what I mean.


 * The other main problem is the sourcing. All biographies must be supported by in-depth secondary sources (books, journals, newspapers, award ceremonies) which explain why the person's importance. Primary sources (directly related to the person) are not acceptable for establishing notability. I realize this is unlike academic practice but it's the way Wikipedia works. In connection with women's biographies, you should look carefully through our Ten Simple Rules.


 * The format we use for referencing is as follows (filling in as many items as are applicable):




 * You will see examples in the articles I mentioned above. See if you can use this approach for you own article.


 * When you feel you're ready, try to draft a new version of Elizabeth Williams. If you can't find at least two good secondary sources, then it might be better to develop a biography of someone else. Please let me know whether all this is clear to you. I hope we can soon resolve all your difficulties.--Ipigott (talk) 14:13, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi Karen! Do I have your permission to edit your article draft in userspace directly? Thanks! Megalibrarygirl (talk) 15:56, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for you kind offer, . From my point of view, that could be a great help.--Ipigott (talk) 17:28, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Reply to Megalibrarygirl
I'm sorry, if you take a look at my response to Ian Pigott, you'll see I'm having to delete my entire article. I'm really sorry, but I can't provide Wikipedia with published sources for a story that I have entirely researched an unearthed myself. So I shall be deleting it, regretfully. I'm posting it on my research network blog instead - a shame, but unavoidable. Karen McAulay (talk) 16:10, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Oh! I see. Well if you need any help in the future with other articles, I'm here! Just ping me. :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 18:24, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

A bit of an impasse
Thanks for your very full reply. Obviously I have a lot to learn. OK, yesterday morning you advised me to do the adventure. At 15.31 I advised that I'd done it, and you told me how to make a page. You said to get back to you if it was successful, and otherwise you would make a page for me. Straight away I tried and did manage to make a page, so I got on with it, unaware that you had made me a page anyway. Then when I replied to say that I'd entered the article but was still having problem with the Wikipedia links, at that point I discovered you had made the page.

That's not a problem at all - however, I am afraid I shall have to delete the entire article, because there is NO printed source giving any more information about Elizabeth Williams. I am not just the leading expert on her life and achievement - I am the only one, since every single fact and link I've provided was discovered by me. If that goes against Wikipedia's rules, then I regret that there's no alternative but for me to place the article somewhere else, because there's nothing else I can provide to make it conform with requirements. It's a shame, and I apologise for wasting your time. I really would have liked her to have had her own entry, but she just doesn't meet requirements. Please don't do anything with the text that's there until tomorrow - my husband's in hospital having an operation today, and I can't be sure when I will have copied the text. Thanks Karen McAulay (talk) 14:59, 20 November 2019 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry to hear you feel so upset about all this. May I suggest you wait for at least a day or two before you delete everything. I would seriously suggest you take up 's kind offer to work on the article. Once it's in a more familiar format, it will be easier to access the sources you have included and examine to what extent they justify an article. I'll also take a closer look myself. The advice I gave you earlier may seem a little harsh but the fact remains that all biographies must be based on notability expressed from secondary sources. Give us a bit more time and we may be able to help you further. It's late in Europe now but I'll try to get back to this once more tomorrow.--Ipigott (talk) 21:02, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm going to wait and see if Karen wants me to go ahead, . You should check out her blog post. Karen, I'm sorry to hear about your husband. Take care. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 21:08, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Leaving it for now
It's very kind of you, Susan, but I'm leaving it on the blog for now. (https://ClaimedFromStationersHall.Wordpress.com)  It can't be simultaneously on the blog and on Wikipedia without plagiarising - either self-plagiarism or plagiarism by a third party. There are no further references that I could supply that would make it fit with Wikipedia's requirements of printed sources. Someone else has suggested I try to publish it in a printed source so that my article would itself become the secondary source, but again, that would lead to plagiarism, particularly since it would be the sole source of information. In addition to Hugh being in hospital, I also had major surgery a fortnight ago - I just don't have the appetite for turning it into an extended project right now. But I do appreciate your kind offer, which was very good of you.
 * I'm sorry to hear both you and your husband have been going through a rough period. I hope both of you get well soon.
 * I happened to come across https://claimedfromstationershall.wordpress.com/ by navigating through your blog. If you give Megalibrarygirl and me a few more days to think about how best your work could be reflected on Wikipedia, we may come up with something. Now that I am able to read a "clean" version, I can see the biography is quite revealing. You have done an excellent job of putting the piece together. It's just the kind of thing other contributors could drawn on to enrich the encyclopaedia but I'm afraid it you were to do so it would be considered origial research.
 * I've also been looking at your own CV and achievements. I wonder whether a useful first step would be to write a Wikipedia article on the University of St Andrews Library, drawing on the library's history and other articles you have written such as Mrs Bertram's Music Borrowing. With your own experience of the library, you may also be able to suggest some other historical accounts we can draw on. I see by the way St Andrews has several different libraries. The one you are interested in appears to be the King James Library, now combined with St Mary's College Library. All very interesting...--Ipigott (talk) 12:33, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

December events with WIR
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 18:43, 25 November 2019 (UTC) via MassMessaging

February with Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 19:31, 28 January 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging

September Women in Red edithons
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 17:51, 29 August 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging

October editathons from Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 15:10, 21 September 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging

November edit-a-thons from Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 18:51, 28 October 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging

December with Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 16:42, 26 November 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging

A New Year With Women in Red!
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 03:02, 29 December 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging

April editathons from Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 20:16, 22 March 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging

May 2021 at Women in Red
--Rosiestep (talk) 21:36, 28 April 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging

August Editathons from Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 22:26, 23 July 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging

January 2022 with Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 16:02, 28 December 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging

February with Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 15:10, 31 January 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

March editathons
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 16:37, 27 February 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

April Editathons from Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 22:45, 22 March 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

May Women in Red events
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 16:53, 30 April 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

June events from Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 09:21, 31 May 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red in July 2022
--Lajmmoore (talk) 15:47, 27 June 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red August 2022
--Lajmmoore (talk) 10:59, 29 July 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red in September 2022
--Lajmmoore (talk) 15:36, 31 August 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red October 2022
--Lajmmoore (talk) 14:59, 29 September 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red November 2022
--Lajmmoore (talk) 17:34, 26 October 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red in December 2022
--Lajmmoore (talk) 20:55, 26 November 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red January 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 18:02, 27 December 2022 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red in February 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 07:28, 30 January 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red March 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 12:53, 26 February 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red April 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:52, 27 March 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red May 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 18:28, 27 April 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red - June 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 09:16, 28 May 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red July 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 07:43, 27 June 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red 8th Anniversary
--Lajmmoore (talk) 11:01, 18 July 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red August 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 19:25, 28 July 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

September 2023 at Women in Red
--Victuallers (talk) 16:54, 25 August 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red October 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 10:53, 29 September 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red - November 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 08:22, 26 October 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red December 2023
--Lajmmoore (talk) 20:23, 27 November 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red January 2024
--Lajmmoore (talk) 20:17, 28 December 2023 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red February 2024
--Lajmmoore (talk 20:09, 28 January 2024 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red March 2024
--Lajmmoore (talk 20:22, 25 February 2024 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red April 2024
--Lajmmoore (talk 19:42, 30 March 2024 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red May 2024
--Lajmmoore (talk 06:17, 28 April 2024 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red June 2024
--Lajmmoore (talk 07:05, 23 May 2024 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Women in Red August 2024
--Lajmmoore (talk 14:28, 30 June 2024 (UTC) via MassMessaging