User talk:Katelynn.cox/sandbox

Katelynn's questions
What's the best way to begin editing our page? Should we start with the way we want the page formatted or begin adding information relevant to the article? J.R. Council (talk) 04:57, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * First of all, you'll start developing your additions to the page in this sandbox. The Wiki Ed people can look at it when you feel it's time to start moving your contributions to the actual article. I suggest that you develop new sections in a way that you can add them to the existing page without deleting the material that is already there. You should use the sandbox to work out formatting for the material you are adding. That way if you make mistakes, they won't be "public."

1. There isn't much on the talk page except for the article not having yet been reviewed for its quality and importance by the WikiProject Psychology.

3. What's the best way to begin editing our page? Should we start with the way we want the page formatted or begin adding information relevant to the article? Katelynn.cox (talk) 04:46, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

1. Like Katelynn said, there hasn't been anything on the talk page from other Wikipedians as far as what should be improved and worked on.

2: Some sources I found:

3. Do you have any suggestions on specific sections of information we could include about metapsychology? Would sections like History, Contributors, and general concepts be appropriate to have? Jocelyn Converse (talk) 05:07, 27 February 2015 (UTC) Katelynn.cox (talk) 16:36, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Jocelyn's questions
Do you have any suggestions on specific sections of information we could include about metapsychology? Would sections like History, Contributors, and general concepts be appropriate to have?
 * After looking at the existing article, I think you'll definitely want to add new sections. Within the existing section on Freud, you could add a subsection on the history of Freud's metapsychology. It also makes sense to start the article with more discussion of metapsychology in general. If there are other specific contributors to the topic besides Gerbode, add them in by all means. J.R. Council (talk) 05:08, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

To-Do-List
1. Add more about metapsychology in general at the very beginning of the article. Maybe add a picture related to metapsychology or something Freud or Gerbode related. 2. Include more information in the Freud and Gerbode sections. For example, explain more on Freud's psychoanalytic metapsychology and how he applied it in his work. 3. We could add another section that talks about the use of metapsychology in the world today. 4. Other information we could add is what are the benefits or limitations of this type of psychology. Katelynn.cox (talk) 04:34, 6 March 2015 (UTC) 5. Work on organization within each section. For example, what would be the best way to lay out information in each of the Freud and Gerbode sections? What is the best way to lay out the history? 6. As well as talking about the use of metapsychology in the world today, who contributes to the topic today and how it is used in modern psychology? 7. We could also talk about which parts of metapsychology aren't used anymore. 8. We could add in information about how it relates to other forms of psychology. Jocelyn Converse (talk) 16:14, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

I can talk about the use of metapsychology in the world today, who contributes to it, and how it's used in modern psychology and the parts that aren't used anymore. I can also add to the Freud section. Jocelyn Converse (talk) 17:16, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

For Assignment 7, I have added more information on Freud's theory behind metapsychology, the date of his correspondence with Fliess, and some more information on content in some of his papers.Jocelyn Converse (talk) 04:22, 27 March 2015 (UTC) Added information on one of his followers and an advocate of his theory of metapsychology, David Rapaport.Jocelyn Converse (talk) 04:23, 27 March 2015 (UTC) Added information on another advocate, Benjamin B. Rubinstein.Jocelyn Converse (talk) 04:38, 27 March 2015 (UTC) I have also added another reference to the list.Jocelyn Converse (talk) 04:42, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

I can add more information to what metapsychology is in the beginning. I can focus on the Gerbode section and expand more on his contributions. Once we start adding more information and seeing how its going to look, I think we should get together then and really figure out how we want the layout of the page to be and how the information should be organized. I can also contribute to the information on how it is used today since its such a big topic, like what the benefits or limitations are of using metapsychology. Katelynn.cox (talk) 17:36, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Okay - good start
I see you've got a to-do list started. Make sure to do the outline and refs. Jocelyn, sign your contributions so you get credit. J.R. Council (talk) 05:22, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I see everything now except statements of commitment. What you've added makes sense and is a good start on Assignment 7. J.R. Council (talk) 03:18, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Outline
 Metapsychology  Katelynn.cox (talk) 05:59, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Metapsychology (Greek: meta 'beyond, transcending', and ψυχολογία 'psychology') is a speculative psychology which seeks to understand the structure of the mind in terms which may not be empirically verifiable. It is an organized and consistent set of concepts that, because of Freud's research, explains the experience of psychoanalytic clinical work. Katelynn.cox (talk) 06:10, 27 March 2015 (UTC)The term has also been used interchangeably with "General Psychology Theory." Jocelyn Converse (talk) 16:20, 6 March 2015 (UTC) Metapsychology also has a strong influence in terms of biology, neurophysiology, and mechanics which is opposed to the typical attitudes of clinical psychoanalysis Katelynn.cox (talk) 05:16, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Metapsychology is also used to refer to a theoretically explicit psychology, as well as to one that seeks to unify mind and body in a person-centered context. This psychology is meant to emphasize the "experience as viewed by you --the one who experiences-- from the inside out," and not by the psychologist trying to find out what is happening on the inside. Metapsychology recognizes that a person is at the center of their own experiences and therefore have the means of being able to improve themselves and the environment around them. Katelynn.cox (talk) 04:14, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Metapsychology was conceived my Frank A. Gerbode to use a person-centered approach, while simultaneously being directive and structured. Metapsychology deals with what is common in experience which can lead to agreement and understanding. Thus, it can serve as a secure base in an experiential or person-centered psychology system. Katelynn.cox (talk) 05:53, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Freud
Psychoanalytic metapsychology is concerned with the fundamental assumptions of the Freudian theory. Freud originally used the term in his correspondence with Wilhelm Fliess, to refer to his addition of unconscious processes to the conscious ones of traditional psychology: “I would ask you seriously whether I may use the term metapsychology for my psychology which takes one beyond consciousness''. Freud theorized metapsychology as a "simultaneously closed system, fundamentally unrelated and impervious to the external world and as an open system inherently connected and responsive to environmental influence. Katelynn.cox (talk) 05:53, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Subsequently he came to use it to cover a comprehensive description of any mental process - one comprising dynamic forces, quantitative relations and structural elements in the human mind. His overall goal was to be able to psychologize any object of his scientific interest. Jocelyn Converse (talk) 16:23, 6 March 2015 (UTC) However, some of Freud's criticism has stemmed from the methods in which he performed his research and analysis. Freud used an analogical method but his critics claim he use of the term "quantities" is misleading in that "quantities are not measure, but only compared, as quantities of libido become quantities of aggressive urges" and "such transformations of quantities take as an assumption the convertibility of instinctual energy." This idea is essential to metapsychology. Jocelyn Converse (talk) 03:08, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

In the 1910s, he began writing a series of 12 essays, to be collected as Preliminaries to a Metapsychology. While five were published independently, the remaining seven remained unpublished, Freud replying to Lou Andreas-Salome in 1919 as follows: “Where is my Metapsychology? In the first place it remains unwritten”.

Some of Freud's followers, like George S. Klein, came to privilege his clinical thinking over his metapsychology.

Gerbode
The modern metapsychology movement was founded by psychiatrist Frank A. Gerbode, and stresses therapy as a way of developing the spirit for personal growth, rather than as an answer to mental disorders. He helps illustrates Freud's overall goal of developing metapsychology by making the analogy that, "While parapsychology and metaphysics concern themselves with uncommon experiences, metapsychology deals with what is common in experience." Jocelyn Converse (talk) 16:34, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

New References to Add
Gerbode Katelynn.cox (talk) 06:07, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Dunn Katelynn.cox (talk) 06:07, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Rieff Jocelyn Converse (talk) 17:21, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Brenner Jocelyn Converse (talk) 17:21, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Erwin Jocelyn Converse (talk) 03:23, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Gerbode Katelynn.cox (talk) 04:29, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Eriksson Katelynn.cox (talk) 05:16, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Boczar Katelynn.cox (talk) 06:10, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Royce, Mos Jocelyn Converse (talk) 03:22, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Statements of Commitment
I commit to working on the opening part of the article, which gives a clear description of what metapsychology is. I also commit to expanding the section about Gerbode and expanding more on what his contributions to metapsychology. Katelynn.cox (talk) 03:05, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

I commit to expanding more on Freud's contributions (as well as some of his followers and advocates) and his underlying theory to metapsychology while also helping to more clearly define the term itself, since it has been a huge subject of question throughout its history. I am also hoping to find more information on how metapsychology is used today to expand on the opening part of the article. Jocelyn Converse (talk) 04:45, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

scoring so far
From what I can tell, Katelynn has 1 talk edit and 1 sandbox edit, for 6 total. Jocelyn has 1 talk edit plus 2 sandbox edits, for 7 total. However, I may be wrong. I think one or both of you didn't sign all your contributions. J.R. Council (talk) 03:50, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

Possible Article Sections
I have run across some articles that talk about the debate as to whether metapsychology and psychology can actually go together because metapsychology closesly relates to the science of neurophysiology. We could expand on this debate and possibly view it from both sides but still focusing mainly on the psychological side of metapsychology. Katelynn.cox (talk) 04:39, 27 March 2015 (UTC) This could be a good idea, actually. I think we could definitely expand on the debate as it seems important to the topic.Jocelyn Converse (talk) 03:17, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

I added a small part in the introduction about there being some disagreement among psychoanalysis and metapsychology.Katelynn.cox (talk) 05:23, 27 March 2015 (UTC)

I was having trouble find information about the uses of metapsychology today and its benefits but I found an book about metapsychology that goes more in depth on its use and benefits. I found this on google scholar, so maybe it will be easier to find uses about it today there rather than through other databases.Katelynn.cox (talk) 16:55, 27 March 2015 (UTC) Thank you for finding this! I, too, was having troubles finding information on the uses and benefits from reliable sources.Jocelyn Converse (talk) 03:18, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Dr. Council's comments on Assignment 7
Very nice start! You two have done a great job of pulling together information on a fairly obscure topic. Some specific comments: J.R. Council (talk) 21:07, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Some of this is written well enough to make me worry about plagiarism. (Not that I'm accusing you, but I know the difference between student and professional writing.) Be careful to paraphrase and cite your sources. Remember what Jami said - Wikipedia is actually very good at finding plagiarism.
 * 2) On the other hand, don't use colloquial terms like "jump on board"
 * 3) The intro and Freud sections have come along very well. The main areas you should be focusing on for the next assignment are Gerbode and Metapsychology today.(Note lower case t in today.)

Just about ready for prime time!
I really like the way that this article has developed. Just a few suggestions at this point: J.R. Council (talk) 04:25, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Beef up the introductory paragraph. This is the most important part of the article. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section
 * 2) Do some more work on the last section, Metapsych today.
 * 3) Proofread carefully. You want to be proud of this when you go live.
 * I repeat - this needs a careful proofreading. I noticed a number of typos and grammatical errors. The other comments also are still in effect. Let me know when you are ready to submit this to the Wiki Ed expert. J.R. Council (talk) 04:07, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Question?
Dr. Council-- I have been browsing for any more valuable information or sources to use for the section Metapsychology today. I am having a pretty tough time finding good sources, especially since the term is hardly used itself. Would you happen to have any suggestions on how we might be able to strengthen this section? Thanks, Jocelyn Converse (talk) 03:03, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry about the delayed response. I don't think you really need to do anything more with the Metapsychology today section. I'm going to go ahead and send the link to Ian for his feedback. You can still work on it while he's looking at it. J.R. Council (talk) 16:05, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Feedback
Nice work on your draft article. I made a few minor fixes (which I have explaining in my edit summaries). A few things that need doing before you move the article into mainspace


 * When it comes to choosing references to support what's in your article, ask yourself if you are picking the best reference you can find. Are, for example, websites the best sources you can find for a given statement. And if so, make sure you can answer the question "why do I trust this source" to your own satisfaction. Who wrote it, why should you trust them. That kind of stuff.


 * The article needs more wikilinks. Adding links to other articles helps to better integrate your article into the encyclopedia. They help readers by allowing them to learn more about topics they may not be familiar with.
 * Looks good.J.R. Council (talk) 22:26, 4 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Your 'Introduction' needs to become a lead section, per WP:LEAD. Rather than serving as an introduction, the lead section should be a brief summary of the main points of the article. Yours isn't bad, but it's important to remove the header before that section.
 * This looks good. Remember, lead does not have a title. J.R. Council (talk) 22:26, 4 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Parts of your article seems to assume that the reader has a background in psychology. Take a careful look at the Freud section, and the Metapsychology today section and see if you can rephrase things so that a general reader, who has no background in psychology, might understand it. Rather than just saying Freud the first time you mention him go with Sigmund Freud (with a wikilink).
 * Looks like you've taken care of this. J.R. Council (talk) 22:26, 4 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Your referencing is inconsistent. Your links to web pages just include a page name and a url in many cases. As urls change (and they inevitably do; see link rot) it can be difficult for someone to track down what page you actually referenced. If, on the other hand, you included a complete reference, it can be easier to update links. If you use the cite web reference template, and fill in as much information as you can track down, you create a reference that's likely to continue to be useful for a long time. Some of your other references are inconsistent as well. For example, reference #3 simply says "Donald Meltzer, Studies in Extended Metapsychology (2009)" This appears to be a reference to a textbook, but it lacks information like publisher, edition, or page numbers. Page numbers are especially important when referencing a book, since Meltzer's textbook is listed as having 224 pages. That's a lot to ask someone to look through if they want to verify a reference.

Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 21:55, 23 April 2015 (UTC) ''This feedback from Ian is right on the mark. It is detailed, but will not be hard to accomplish. Thanks Ian!''J.R. Council (talk) 03:29, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Looks like you're almost ready to publish to article main space. The main thing left to be done is to fix up the references. Pay attention to first and last bullet points above. Let me know when you've done this and are set to publish. Nice work! J.R. Council (talk) 22:26, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Congratulations! Metapsychology article published
Nice job Katelynn and Jocelyn! Good to see this published. J.R. Council (talk) 21:20, 11 May 2015 (UTC)