User talk:Kathovo/Archive 4

Jesus
Hello,

I am just trying with my bot and some manual editing to get consistent interwikis between fr:Jésus-Christ and fr:Jésus de Nazareth.

This is very complex. With your revert, interwikis are now inconsistent.

Regards,

Vargenau (talk) 11:26, 15 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Correct me if I'm wrong but shouldn't de:Jesus Christus correspond with en:Jesus since they are both concerned with the traditional view?--  R a f y  talk 21:39, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Isa (name)
Thanks for intervening on talk page; If I were to have to go through things which have already been explained repeatedly before, I might not keep my cool... AnonMoos (talk) 02:00, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
 * No problem, Honestly I'm also growing tired of the discussion there.--  R a f y  talk 13:57, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

You kick ass
That is all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.169.168.226 (talk) 15:41, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I know.--  R a f y  talk 20:19, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Michael the Syrian's views on Assyrian continuity
Hi Rafy,

I've now had time to follow up the various references to Assyrians in Michael the Syrian, and have decided to become an Aramean nationalist.

As far as I can tell, Michael the Syrian would have called himself a Syrian or an Aramean, and seems to have regarded the Chaldeans and the Assyrians (in biblical times) as subsets of the Aramean people. The relevant proof text is as follows:

'With the aid of God we discuss the memory of the empires which were established in antiquity by our Aramean race, that is to say the descendants of Aram, who were called Suryaye or people of Syria.' (Chabot, translation, iii. 442).

He also says that that no memory of these ancient kingdoms has survived, because the relevant books were burned when these peoples became Christians (this is merely an inference from an incident recorded in the Acts of the Apostles, where converting pagans burned their books at the feet of the apostles). Here is the text in question:

'These primitive kingdoms [viz. Chaldea and Assyria] were annihilated by the kingdom of the Persians, which began with Cyrus and finished with the Darius who was killed by Alexander. The Persian Empire lasted for 231 years, and during this space of time every people throughout Asia was subdued and brought under Persian rule. After Alexander, we should also include the period of the descendants of Seleucus and Antiochus, who were styled 'kings of the Syrians'. Their dominion lasted for 220 years, until the Roman Empire began with Gaius and Augustus. At this period there appeared the Saviour of the Universe, Christ, the Son of God. So our people were without kings for 550 years. But when the lifegiving teaching of the Gospel appeared, this people adhered to it and professed it enthusiastically; and then they neglected and completely despised the other books, which contained stories about their ancient kings. In their ardent zeal for their faith, they burned all the books which contained the stories of their ancient kings, because the names of these kings and the series of their reigns were intermingled with the diabolical stories of their paganism. For this reason they turned their faces away from all these books, as though from a foul smell, and they burned them so that their memory should not be preserved by their children and by following generations. The book of the Acts of the Apostles alludes to this, when it says, "Those who believed brought the books of their fathers and burned them at the feet of the apostles, books whose value was estimated at a high price."' (Chabot, translation, iii. 446-7.)

Apart from noticing Michael's inability to add up (231 plus 220 does not make 550), I was struck principally by the fact that this passage demonstrates that, at least in the twelfth century, there was NO Assyrian continuity worth speaking of. The only people who knew or cared anything about the ancient Assyrians were educated men like Michael, who gathered what they knew about the Assyrians from the Bible and from learned commentaries on the Bible. Michael has to guess why no trace of these ancient empires has survived, and infers (he cannot know, since there is no surviving evidence) that the records had been burned.

It is certainly interesting to find Michael reacting angrily against Greek provocation by claiming that the Arameans/Syrians had a proud past, but I think it would be eccentric to read into him the idea that there was an Assyrian consciousness in the twelfth century. If we accept Michael's views, modern Assyrians should instead adopt an 'Aramean' identity and forge links with their fellow Arameans in the Syrian Orthodox Church. No, only joking ...

Djwilms (talk) 06:09, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Generous request
Hello Mr. Rafy,  I really appreciate your work, you have made some very interesting and unique contributions to WP. As you may know already, my interest in the Arabic language made me interested in your File:Arabic Dialects.svg which is why I ended up doing much independent research on the subject because I knew the map needed a little fixing. I already posted the finalized updated file twice, but you don't approve b/c it's not a real SVG. To be honest I modified the image using microsoft paint b/c using inkscape would take me a long time as I don't know how to use it. But I should point-out that the version I posted was well researched and well sourced as seen on the file's talk page. Although it is not 100% perfect (and it never will be), I truly believe that my updated version is much more accurate than the original one posted, but I just don't know how to recreate it as an original svg. That is why I came here to ask you nicely if you could please recreate my finalized version as an original svg to make it the best Arabic dialects map ever! Thanks and bye. 

(by the way, I'll also post this message on your wikimedia talk page just to make sure you can see it, but if you read this first then don't bother reading the second one)Moester101 (talk) 01:15, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Hagarism
Please do not remove that information again. WP:WEASEL clearly indicates that "However, views which are properly attributed to a reliable source may use similar expressions if they accurately represent the opinions of the source." You first removed the sourced information based on the existence of a single exception. You then did it again when you asserted that the source didn't describe the book as generally rejected when in fact it did say it was almost universally rejected. I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve, but this clearly is attributed to reliable sources that use similar phrases to describe the acceptance of the book. The exception to WP:WEASEL thus applies. 98.227.186.203 (talk) 02:58, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

CVUA

 * Hi there, I am your instructor! Your page will appear very shortly appear at User:Mdann52/CVUA/Rafy. But first, I need you to outline your experience and what you want to gain from this course. Welcome on board, Mdann52 (talk) 06:19, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Brock diagram
Nice diagram... History2007 (talk) 17:55, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks--  R a f y  talk 20:42, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Iraq
Hi Rafy. Could you take another look at the revision history of Iraq. There is some Arab nationalist POV-pushing and sockpuppetry going on. I've reverted it twice today already. Thanks. Irānshahr (talk) 19:05, 23 August 2012 (UTC)


 * (sockpuppet and single-purpose account) is edit-warring with everyone at Iraq. Irānshahr (talk) 19:52, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

saint from bahrain
Bahrani people: The Baharna (singular Bahrani, Arabic: بحراني ، بحارنة‎) are the indigenous inhabitants of the archipelago of Bahrain and the oasis of Qatif on the Persian Gulf coast of Saudi Arabia (see historical region of Bahrain). The term is sometimes also extended to the Shi'a inhabitants of the al-Hasa oasis. They are all Arabic speaking, and claim descent from Arab tribes. Their dialect of Arabic is known as "Bahrani" or "Bahrani Arabic," and they are overwhelmingly adherents of Shia Islam.

Bahrani people before islam: Bet qatraye sometimes also called (the isles) was the ecclesiastical province Kuwait, eastern Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Qatar several Christian settlements, both monasteries and churches, and have now been found within the province, including two in Kuwait, two more in Saudi Arabia, and at least one in Qatar[10]

By the 5th century, the Bet Qatraye was a major centre for Nestorian Christianity (which had come to dominate the southern shores of the Persian Gulf), with Samahij[11] being the seat of bishops. It was a center of Nestorian Christianity until al-Bahrain adopted Islam in 629.[12] As a sect, the Nestorians were often persecuted as heretics by the Byzantine Empire, but Bahrain was outside the Empire's control offering some safety. The names of several of Muharraq Island’s villages today reflect this Christian legacy, with Al Dair meaning “the monastery” or "the parish."

In 410, according to the Oriental Syriac Church synodal records, a bishop named Batai was excommunicated from the church in Bahrain.[13] It was also the site Bahrain of worship of a shark deity called Awal. Worshippers reputedly built a large statue to Awal in Muharraq, although it has now been lost, and for many centuries after Tylos, the islands of Bahrain were known as ‘Awal’.

Isaac of Nineveh bahrani becuse he born in historical region of Bahrain:He was born in the region of Bahrain.[1] When still quite young, he and his brother entered a monastery, where he gained considerable renown as a teacher and came to the attention of the Catholicos George, who ordained him Bishop of Nineveh far to the north. The administrative duties did not suit his retiring and ascetic bent: he requested to abdicate after only five months, and went south to the wilderness of Mount Matout, a refuge for anchorites. There he lived in solitude for many years, eating only three loaves a week with some uncooked vegetables, a detail that never failed to astonish his hagiographers. Eventually blindness and old age forced him to retire to the monastery of Shabar, where he died and was buried. At the time of his death he was nearly blind, a fact that some attribute to his devotion to study.Ashrf1979 (talk) 10:38, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

CVUA
Hi there, I noticed you haven't answered my query above. So, I would like to know if you want to start the course. If so, can you tell me your previous experience, and what you want gain from the course

Thanks, Mdann52 (talk) 05:52, 28 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry for my late reaction. I have replied to your request.--  R a f y  talk 20:43, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Isaac of Nineveh
Can you read in Arabic.--Ashrf1979 (talk) 03:20, 29 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes.--  R a f y  talk 20:43, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Ashrf1979 (talk) 16:22, 30 August 2012 (UTC) نبذة تاريخية عن كنيسة المشرق في الجزيرة العربية والقطر البحري بيث قطرايي الشماس نوري إيشوع مندو

http://www.ankawa.com/forum/index.php?topic=494444.0

المعجم البحراني الكبير

حسين محمد حسين الجمري

الديانة المسيحية في البحرين

http://culturebh.wordpress.com/category/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AF%D9%8A%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%AD%D9%8A%D8%A9/


 * These articles are not written by academics and are thus not a WP:RS. Anyway, I can't find in them that Isaac was a native of modern Bahrain, as you know the region of Bahrain or Qatar extended along the western bank of the Persian Gulf and the modern Kingdom of Bahrain only formed a tiny part of it.
 * Secondly, being born in that region doesn't make him a Bahrani in the modern ethnoreligious sense i.e. Shiite Arabs of the Gulf states, not only this is anachronistic but it also doesn't take in consideration other possibilities namely that he was an ethnic Persian or Syrian, both whom historical settlements are well attested on various islands in the Persian Gulf.--  R a f y  talk 16:10, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

فكرتك خاطئة انا لا اقول انه من دولة البحرين الحالية فدولة البحرين الحالية لا تمثل الا جزء بسيط ومحدود من منطقة البحرين التاريخية التي تضم دول الكويت وقطر والبحرين اضافة الى المنطقة الشرقية والتي يطلق على سكانها الاصليين اسم البحرانيين ومن الثابت تاريخيا ان اسحاق النينوي ولد في منطقة البحرين التاريخية وينتمي لسكانها الاصليين ولا يوجد ما يشير الى انتمائه الى اصل سوري او فارسي اسحاق السوري هو قديس آخر كان يعيش في عصر قريب من عصر اسحاق النينوي اما اسحاق النينوي فكان يطلق عليه لقب اسحاق السرياني الذي ترجم في بعض المصادر بشكل خاطئ الى اسحاق السوري

(Our venerable father Isaac of Nineveh, also known as Isaac of Syria, is a 7th century saint known for his strict asceticism and ascetic writings.

St. Isaac was born in the region of Qatar on the western shore of the Persian Gulf. When still quite young, he entered a monastery with his brother

He is not to be confused with the other St. Isaac the Syrian, Abbot of Spoleto, who lived during the mid-sixth century (April 12). )

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Isaac_of_Syria.--Ashrf1979 (talk) 17:38, 31 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Well of course Isaac of Nineveh is also known as Isaac the Syrian, just take a look at his Greek name (Isaac Syrus). Syrian doesn't necessary reflact relatedness to "Syria", it can also be used with ethnic end religious connotations.--  R a f y  talk 22:23, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

CVUA - New lesson!
I have set a test at your CVUA page for you - please complete it ASAP, and I will mark it and then tell you what needs to be done. Mdann52 (talk) 18:29, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Script bug
You can not call call "unexplained" or "without an edit summary" this edit, as you did. Debug your script or whatever tool you use. 62.147.11.238 (talk) 22:22, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac Diaspora
Hello Rafy thank you for your introduction! about the Assyrian Diaspora article I changed it because there are many Syriacs who consider themselves as Assyrians like myself! so to put it like this "Syriac-Aramaen" its wrong in my opinion, its better to describe it like it was before "Assyrian/Syriac" or "Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac" --Suryoye85 (talk) 13:57, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

National groups
Following the recent agreement on "Iraqi people" article and the consequent expansion of the understanding to articles on Syrian and other modern national groups, i think we should perhaps create a special template for national groups, rather than the "ethnic group" template used today and causing confusion. Do you have an idea to to create an infobox template of this kind?Greyshark09 (talk) 18:48, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't really mind using the ethnic groups template as long as it doesn't show them as an ethnic group. I've seen that the Israelis article employ a table instead of an infobox, this could be imitated there but as I said I don't really mind the current one.--  R a f y  talk 23:02, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

The Arabic file
Hey Rafy, it's been almost 2 months now since I uploaded the updated file to File:Arab_World-Large.PNG. I thought you told me you would vectorize it and then upload it on File:Arabic Dialects.svg. I hope you didn't forget about it. Please remember to update it as it has significant and important improvements to the original version. Any q's just tell me man. Thanks and bye. Moester101 (talk) 04:39, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Hey Moester, I took a alook at the map but I found several inaccuracies imo:

Regards.--  R a f y  talk 16:40, 16 October 2012 (UTC) Hey Rafy. As I mentioned earlier, I cited all changes to the map on its own discussion page, but since you focused on a specific few points I'll give you some clarifications. First you mentioned Afar and Somali as not Arabic. I'll have you know that I was in no way referring to their respective indigenous race or language, but rather I was referring to the fact that these people do speak fluent Arabic with their own distinctive dialect which is why I labeled them. In other words, my labeling of them is for the fact that they speak perfect Arabic of their own dialect, not of their own indigenous tongue. I also have their change sourced on the talk page. Come on now, have you really never heard Somalis speaking excellent Arabic? Second you mentioned Hijazi not being spoken in Sudan in Eritrea, but that was not the point! I had labeled purple as "Hijazi AND Rashaida" which is a sub-dialect directly derived from Hijazi Arabic.....AND I have it well sourced on the talk page. Rashaida Arabic is spoken on coasts of Sudan and Eritrea, see the sources I provided for Rashaida on the talk page. Third you mentioned Tuareg language as not Arabic. Again I'd like to use the first argument that I previously used for Somali Arabic which is that even though the Tuareg have their own indigenous Tuareg language (Amazigh), I was specifically labeling them for their very widespread ability to speak fluent and excellent Arabic with their own distinctive dialect, and also like all other changes I had this one sourced. Again let me ask you, have you really never heard Tuaregs speaking excellent Arabic? By now you should be noticing that none of my changes were randomly made-up, I had done my research before making the changes. Fourth and last you mentioned Judeo-Arabic which is probably the only point that I kinda agree with you on. Except one thing though, why did you originally include Judeo-Arabic in the original map's key if you're so staunchly against it being included? If you really want it out then just exclude that one when remaking it, but don't discredited the entire map for it. Nonetheless I still think it would be a good addition even if it is a collection of all the other dialects, I guess you can just add in parentheses next to it that it is a collection of all other dialects. Anyways, great talking with you. If you still disagree on something let me know. I think this map is really important and I want it to be perfect, if not for us then at least for the WP readers who deserve to see the best and most accurate maps which is what most WP readers focus their attention on. Thanks and bye! Moester101 (talk) 07:55, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) Afar and Somali are not Arabic, not even Semitic actually.
 * 2) I don't think Hijazi is spoken in Sudan and Eritrea.
 * 3) Tuareg language is not Arabic.
 * 4) Judeo-Arabic is actually a large host of different dialects and shouldn't be included at all since it denotes any variety spoken by Jewish. It could be thus Mesopotamian, Leventine, Maghribi, etc. depending on the geographical location of its speakers.


 * I assume that some Persians also speak a variety of Arabic and thus need to be included as well. Otherwise the map should be restricted to native speakers of these varieties.--  R a f y  talk 13:59, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Massacre of Aleppo (1850)
Great thanks for creating the article. Really appreciated.--Preacher lad (talk) 13:09, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Khentrem :).--  R a f y  talk 13:49, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Some good faith?
I do not have one bad faith edition in WP. Have you seen many of my editions? How can you accuse me like this? --E4024 (talk) 22:02, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
 * OK my remark might have sounded harsher than intended, but by removing non-Turkish names you showed typical partisan behaviour.--  R a f y  talk 22:53, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Did you do the same to the user who reverted my addition of a Turkish name to Yerevan? Next time you do this to me better apologize... --E4024 (talk) 23:01, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Solluba
The DYK project (nominate) 16:05, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Phonecia
Hello,

I believe that Line 79 where it is stated Modern "Israel" should be at least changed to simply "Israel" this I say due to the fact that the "Israel" that exists today did not exist in the past and was only created in modern day "Palestine".

Secondly Line 335, there is no such thing as an ancient "Israel" only ancient Palestine, I therefore believe the changes I made their should stick.

--عقيدة (talk) 19:58, 11 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Correct me if I'm wrong but I also don't think that the modern political entities of Lebanon, Syria, Cyprus, etc. existed 3000 years ago, why pick Israel and keep them then?--  R a f y  talk 20:09, 11 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I just stumbled on to this and I don't know what the context of this is so I don't know if what I say here will be of any help


 * Cyprus in addition to being a modern political entity is also an island, and the island of Cyprus existed 3000 years ago. Syria I think even before the creation of the modern political entity was a name used for the Northern Levant. The romans called it Syria. Lebanon as far as I know is only a modern political entity. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 14:22, 26 November 2012 (UTC)


 * A common practice in Wikipedia is to include modern political entities which were part of ancient ones in the infobox, see for example Roman Empire and Ottoman Empire. By the way, the name Syria first appeared during Hellenistic times, that is almost a thousand years from the time Phoenicia flourished, while the name Israel is certainly older.--  R a f y  talk

ziryab
Unfortunately some nationalists keep removing Persian from the article.. The article can be cleaned up with the sources intact  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.96.169.227 (talk) 23:47, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

...
Merry Christmas! History2007 (talk) 20:37, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Please do not direct editors to discuss articles on your talk page
Rafy; You recently left me a message saying that if I had any issue with your revision, to bring it to your talk page. I'll not be doing that. Instead I'll leave a message on the article's talk page, which is where article talk should go. This note is sounding way more churlish than I intend. Read it as if I have a silly voice, if that helps. 124.168.221.199 (talk) 04:13, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I've removed the section pending more meaningful discussion, see Talk:Festivus. Thanks for dropping me that note, it was kind of you, and totally above the call of duty.  Every second sentence of mine today sounds grumpy, don't know why.  Feeling groovy. - 124.168.221.199 (talk) 04:22, 28 December 2012 (UTC)