User talk:Kawika1000

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April 2018
Hello, I'm Peaceray. An edit that you recently made to Robert William Wilcox seemed to be a test and has been removed. If you want more practice editing, please use the sandbox. If you think a mistake was made, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks! Peaceray (talk) 00:57, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Elizabeth Kekaaniau
Can you add specific page numbers to the books you are citing in the article on Elizabeth Kekaaniau? It will help other cross reference the content. Mahalo.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 14:40, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Mahalo for the corrections...can you help to properly tag Keka`aniau portrait in Kawaiaha`o? Kawika1000 (talk) 14:19, 27 June 2018 (UTC)


 * I wish I can help but this is tricky. The copyright belongs to the artist and she is dead. Copyright law in the US is really strict. You may have to ask permission from the heirs of Mary Koski, get evidence of that permission, and upload the image with something called an OTRS tag. See commons:File:Henry Hoolulu Pitman, Peabody Essex Museum.jpg for an example. I’m not too sure how the process work. I can ask the OTRS noticeboard about this specific example and see if permission from the artist’s heir can count (since I’m not sure about that either). In order for you to use this route you must track and contact Mary’s heirs. Otherwise under Wikipedia’s copyright policy you can’t upload this until the year 2090.—KAVEBEAR (talk) 16:13, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I've posted on the Commons:OTRS/Noticeboard. Do you have an email or Facebook account? I like to ask you a few questions about the Laanui family. Are you a descendant? —-KAVEBEAR (talk) 16:13, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Hello, Kawika. Here is the instruction on how to upload a work that is not yours once you have gotten the permission from the copyright holder of the work. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:OTRS#If_you_are_NOT_the_copyright_holder If you can do the same for the portraits of Gideon Peleioholani Laanui and Gideon Kailipalaki Laanui that would be great too since because they are fair use, they can’t be used on elsewhere on other language Wikipedia pages or any other pages for that matter. -KAVEBEAR (talk) 15:43, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I just realized you already started the process at File:Portrait of Kekaʻaniau in Kawaiahaʻo royal pews.jpg. Just in case it becomes a problem for Koski’s daughter or your cousins to forward the emails themselves directly. You can also forward the email conversation threads they had with you to permissions-commons@wikimedia.org as well. Provided that the permission was given in those email threads already.–KAVEBEAR (talk) 16:12, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Response from Mark Miller: Possible heirs of Gertrude Miller-Toledo
It is not certain if she had children. It appears she was a battered wife (there is a book source for that claim) and divorced her husband in a rather controversial situation. I don't know the full details but it might be a tender subject should you approach anyone. Here is a list of her siblingsin order to identify any possible heirs. This is public information so, no issue there.

Daisy Kaihikapumahana Miller, John Kilioe Miller, Virginia Kahelekaapuni Miller, Margaret Kaahumanu Miller, Mona Jane Miller and Elmer Ellsworth Kalahumoku Miller (and again, no relationship to my line although several names are similar).--Mark Miller 22:36, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

The original paintings are displayed at Liliuokalani Church (808) 637-9364. They may be able to provide some information.--Mark Miller 22:42, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Just found this; her daughter and probable heir to Mary Koski is Kathy Long of Kamuela (public info from http://merriemonarch.staradvertiser.com/faces-of-merrie-monarch-the-arts-fair/)--Mark Miller 22:59, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Hopefully this helps the user.—-KAVEBEAR (talk) 23:03, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I actually do not think any portrait of Kekaaniau exist at Liliuokalani Church in Waialua. Where is the evidence of that? I am thinking you may assume the painting of her father is at those two places thus hers is there too. There are two version but I think one at Kawaiahao and one at Royal School.—-KAVEBEAR (talk) 23:09, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
 * The information is from the portrait of Gideon at Kawaiaha'o Church on the information plaque under the painting. I can e-mail that to you if you wish. I can only read the information off Gideon's portrait as the plaque on Elizabeth's is blurred in my photo. Therefore it may be referring to only his portrait.--Mark Miller (talk) 03:12, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the information, yes I am a descendant of La`anui, my aunt commissioned Mary Koski to paint all the La`anui's portraits and gave her the rights for use. She made several of each painting which my aunt gave them to me when she died. The portrait of Gideon La`anui II, is the only one made and hangs in my house. I will have to "dig" for the permission document. You can contact me at keouanui@yahoo.com for questions....mahalo nuiKawika1000 (talk) 23:12, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Gertrude Kapiolani Miller Toledo was my aunt who gave me extra the portraits.Kawika1000 (talk) 23:19, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Mahalo nui loa for sharing that here. We are very distant cousins. Gideon is a 5th cousin, 1x removed. Keōua is a 9th great grandfather. Clearly you have enough of a direct connection to find the information about the commission. If it was a simple commission, copyright belongs to the artist. If it was a "Work For Hire" the copyright belongs to the one who paid the commission and their heirs. It would be easier for you to know the line of succession or what her will stated and who her heirs are. If your aunt has an archive of papers it would be there, however Mary Kosk's daughter may also have that information. Even if there is no actual paper contract if you can contact Kathy Long (I'll bet she would love to here from you), she might be able to give permissions for OTRS if she maintains the copyright for her mother, which is likely. If you have any questions or wish for some help, don't hesitate to ask myself or KAVEBEAR. He has a pretty good handle on how Wikipedia works and has achieved several articles of the highest quality here. It is not uncommon for artists to allow specific works to be shared with a creative Commons license but be sure and explain that this allows for the commercial use as well. Be sure that is what you, as well, wish before uploading to commons should you discover the piece was a "Work for Hire".--Mark Miller (talk) 03:12, 29 June 2018 (UTC)


 * There is one possible way to use the painting under "Fair Use". A photo of a painting is considered a "faithful reproduction of the original work" (which is why copyright is so restrictive over such). But this works around the "photo itself" discussion requirement for "fair use" when the article mentions the painting itself. For the article to mention the painting, a strong, reliable source would be required for referencing the mention. This should be able to allow the image of the painting to uploaded to Wikipedia in a low resolution "fair use" work to illustrate the mention of the work in the article.--Mark Miller (talk) 04:38, 29 June 2018 (UTC)


 * I just noticed something that made me kind of smile. While trying to do some research I fell on it by accident. On the website keouanui.org (the site itself is called Royal Family of Hawaii, Official Website) on the Royal School/Succession page I found the image of the portrait of Elizabeth Kekaaniau by Mary Kosk next to a portrait of Queen Liliuokalani by.....me (and an unknown photographer). Liliuokalani-queen color close up 2 copy.jpg :) The image is licensed as Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 International license. The image page also has attribution instructions that indicate unattributed use must e-mail for permissions. Usually this would require permission for use in this manner but I also allow unattributed use for promoting sovereignty issues and don't have a problem with the use. In a way, this is being transparent in case anyone else should notice that but also...well...now that's a humorous coincidence!--Mark Miller (talk) 07:02, 29 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Kiwiki (if I haven't scared you off) I'm actually a Hawaiian artist myself. The image of Liliuokalani above was the basis for a portrait in oils on canvas board that was gifted to one of her ancestors through Analea Keohokālole. The original colorized image of the queen or the oil portrait has been at the head of the January 17 march for several years and I am extremely honored by its use. I was very moved to see it on the front page of the Star Advertiser this past January after the 125th Anniversary of the overthrow and Onipaʻa Kākou march with her ancestor carrying her. I made all of the colorized images available on commons as they were created but I keep full copywrite for the painting (with permissions for public display, and photo jouranlism as long as it is respectful to Liliuokalani and promotes Hawaiian sovereignty). I don't post all of my art on Wikimedia Commons but I have uploaded at least three oil portraits for possible use in the future on Wikipedia. I don't sell my works to the general public and I'm not really a well known name but I love painting these portraits of my ancestors and cousins. It is through Wikipedia that I discovered my Hawaiian genealogy and history and where I have rediscovered my heritage just before my own father passed. He got to see a little of what I had researched. He never told us anything but my sister found a family tree in 2013 that was hand written by our uncle. She called me to ask about the names on it and then asked dad if the tree was true and if we were related to the Hawaiian Royal Family and he confirmed it. His long lost family even saw some of the research on Wikipedia and saw my name, contacted me and he was able to see his sister who he hadn't seen since she was 11, just before he passed. I'm descended from John Papa ʻĪʻī's kahu and Kamehameha III and Kaʻahumanu's kahili bearer.--Mark Miller (talk) 08:12, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Mark...I was able to get permission from Koski's daughter to use on Wikipedia, also my cousin's give me permission as well. So I will try to re post with proper certification and tag. Yes no doubt we are related along the chiefly lineages of our ancestors, I am sure we will run into each other one day. I know of the Lili`uokalani's painting you are speaking of on the Keouanui.org site... I was appointed to help maintain the site and can insert you credit for it, please let me know how you wish it to be diplayed. It is a beautiful re-touch, something to be proud of... congratulations on its public use. Mahalo a nui loa Mark & Kavebear for your help in this matter. Kawika1000 (talk) 13:12, 29 June 2018 (UTC)
 * The site supports sovereignty and the use of the Liliuokalani portrait is highly respectful so does not need attribution as I have publically declared off Wikipedia. It is an honor to be able to share my work in a way that supports the Hawaiian culture and I continue to learn every day, growing as a Wikipedian and an artist.--Mark Miller (talk) 23:38, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Unspecified source/license for File:Elizabeth4.jpg
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File:Portrait of Elizabeth Keka`aniau in the Royal Pews.jpg
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 * Aloha, if you would like assistance in understanding copyright and fair use please let me know. This mage fails fair use in the instance it is being used because there are free images of the subject available.--Mark Miller (talk) 23:32, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
 * The image of the portrait of Elizabeth Kekaaniau is actually 40 years old and the artist may not have given up their copyright. Copyright is maintained for 75 years PLUS 70 years from the death of the author/artist. It's display within a sacred area does not give an editor the right to upload against Wikipedia and Commons policy. Please respect the intellectual property of the artist and the kuleana in regards to the use of the image. Mahalo.--Mark Miller (talk) 23:37, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Copyright
Please see familiarize yourself with our copyright policy at Copyrights.--Mark Miller (talk) 23:56, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Kaloiokalani wife of Kalokuokamaile and Kamehameha I
Well, here is something interesting. I was directed to Mary Kekaula Keliʻihoʻomanawanui's line as a direct descendant of Kamehameha I. Her mother was Kuhala (w), the youngest of five children of Luhane (w) and Kamakele (k). Mary's father was Keliʻihoʻomanawanui (k). What was interesting was the link to Kamehameha when you go back in this primary source document called the "DESCENDANTS OF KAMEHAMEHA I" (there's a copy on scribed) and look at #19 it says; ""Kaloiokalani (w) married Kalokuokamaile (k), son of Keōuakupuapaʻīkalaninui (k) and Kahikikalâokalani (w). She was also known as Kaloi (w). The four known children of Kamehameha I and Kaloiokalani (w) all born in the kingdom of Hawaii were as follows: 19 I. Luhane (w)2 married Kamakele (k)……""

"Kamehameha's Children Today" does list Kaloi (w) as the mother of Luhane and her four siblings on page 59 but have not seen if the book source mentions more about Kaloi (w).--Mark Miller (talk) 06:30, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Photograph of Elizabeth Kekaaniau
Hello, Kawika. Do you know where the original 1850s photograph of Elizabeth Kekaaniau is currently now? It graces the cover of your cousin David Castro’s book and I see it on the Keoua Nui website but none of them are of the best quality. I heard Owana Salazar mentioned it on her Facebook when she posted a cover photo of the portrait that used the photograph as an inspiration and she seems to have an original photograph of Theresa Laanui too. I was wondering if you or your ohana would know something more and could get a better version and post it online than these below. They are ok but not as good as the museum ambrotype currently on the page now. Mahalo!–KAVEBEAR (talk) 16:04, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

COI
Please review Conflict of interest.--Mark Miller (talk) 02:44, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

A COI is not a blackmark or a suggestion that you do not have value as a contributor at Wikipedia. This COI seems pretty narrow and does not affect every article you edit however, above you declared a conflict of interest as the website manager for keouanui.org. If you are paid for this service, see the behavioral guideline ~ Paid editing but if you are volunteering your service for a family website that is or has been used as a source or you added that source yourself in the past, you have a COI. This does not mean much past any article not directly within your conflict and does not mean you cannot contribute to an article you have a COI with (see guideline for proper way to contribute to an article you have a COI with). In fact, if you have expertise in a specific area, have access to the person/subject with notability for a stand alone Wikipedia article, it would be a net loss to the project if this were to put you off from further contributions. You deserved a clear explanation. There are many editors that can assist you in the right direction but you can also request assistance.--Mark Miller (talk) 06:28, 17 September 2018 (UTC)