User talk:Kaylatheprfreelancer

Welcome!
Hello, Kaylatheprfreelancer, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful:


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Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Questions, ask me on my talk page, or, and a volunteer should respond shortly. Again, welcome! Jytdog (talk) 16:37, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Paid editing in Wikipedia
Hi Kaylatheprfreelancer. I take it from your username that you are.. er.. a freelancer who does PR for people. :) If that is true, would you please confirm?   After you do (if you do), I'd like to get you oriented to paid editing in Wikipedia. I work a lot on these issues, and there are ways to do it right, that will lead you down a relatively peaceful path, and ways to do it wrong, that will cause you and others all kinds of grief.  This is one of things where the correct way is fairly narrow and there are lots of ways to go wrong, so please hold off editing further until we work through this.  You can reply here, just below this -- I will see it! Jytdog (talk) 16:39, 15 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi Jytdog, we don't charge our clients to make minor edits on Wikipedia. We do have a few clients who are interested in having profiles created. What is the best way to do that that fits everybody's guidelines? Kaylatheprfreelancer (talk) 16:49, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your note, OK so you are in the realm of paid editing. We have a policy called WP:PAID, and a WP:COI guideline, that I will talk you through. The first step, is that you are obligated to disclose your employer and the client.  Clearly the client for that edit was Joel Block; would you please disclose who the "we" is?  Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 17:03, 15 May 2018 (UTC)


 * From now on, we'll just make suggestions then. Joel Block did not ask us to touch his Wikipedia page, even though he is a client. Since he has a new book, we thought it would be okay to add the information. The company I work for is the PR Freelancer: http://theprfreelancer.com/ Kaylatheprfreelancer (talk) 18:58, 15 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Also Jytdog, can you answer a question for us? If we have a client who we believe is deserving of a Wikipedia page but they don't have one how do we go about recommending them for a Wikipedia page or how do we go about creating one for them if that's allowed? Kaylatheprfreelancer (talk) 19:03, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for replying. Please disclose your employer and please explain to whom you are referring when you write 'we" and "us".  Above  I said that there are many ways to go wrong. Not answering direct questions is a way to go wrong.  Please answer, simply and directly. Jytdog (talk) 19:23, 15 May 2018 (UTC)


 * "Us" and "we" are the team at ThePRFreelancer, Inc. www.theprfreelancer.com ThePRFreelancer is a company name and my employer. Kaylatheprfreelancer (talk) 19:35, 15 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks for replying, and clearly.  Quick note on the logistics of discussing things on Talk pages, which are essential for everything that happens here. In Talk page discussions, we "thread" comments by indenting (see WP:THREAD) - when you reply to someone, you put a colon in front of your comment, which the Wikipedia software will render into an indent when you save your edit; if the other person has indented once, then you indent twice by putting two colons in front of your comment, which the WP software converts into two indents, and when that gets ridiculous you reset back to the margin (or "outdent") by putting this  in front of your comment. This also allows you to make it clear if you are also responding to something that someone else responded to if there are more than two people in the discussion; in that case you would indent the same amount as the person just above you in the thread.  I hope that all makes sense. And -- you are already doing this part -- at the end of the comment, please "sign" by typing exactly four (not 3 or 5) tildas "~" which the WP software converts into a date stamp and links to your talk and user pages when you save your edit.  That is how we know who said what to whom and when.


 * Please be aware that threading and signing are fundamental etiquette here, as basic as "please" and "thank you", and continually failing to thread and sign communicates rudeness, and eventually people may start to ignore you (see here). Jytdog (talk) 20:47, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

OK, now I understand. Thanks for disclosing and explaining that. I had no idea there was such a company (I thought "PR freelancer" was just generic). So you work for PR Freelancer, and Joel Block is a client, and your company was giving him a "freebie". That is still paid editing here in WP.

Now I can help you make a complete disclosure on your user page. Would you please write there "I work a PR firm called " ThePRFreelancer, Inc" and will be editing here on behalf of clients of the firm. I will list those clients below". And you can list the clients there. If you want to add anything else there that is relevant to what you want to do in WP feel free to add it, but please don't add anything promotional about the company or yourself (see WP:USERPAGE for guidance if you like).

You should also always disclose locally, at the relevant article talk page. There is a tag that can be placed in the header (see the example at Talk:Bottega_Veneta for example)

I added a tag to at Talk:Joel Block, so the disclosure is done there. Once you disclose on your user page, the disclosure piece of this will be done.

There are two pieces to COI management in WP. The first is disclosure. The second is a form of peer review. This piece may seem a bit strange to you at first, but if you think about it, it will make sense. In Wikipedia, editors can immediately publish their work, with no intervening publisher or standard peer review -- you can just create an article, click save, and voilà there is a new article, and you can go into any article, make changes, click save, and done. No intermediary - no publisher, no "editors" as that term is used in the real world. So the bias that conflicted editors tend to have, can go right into the article. Conflicted editors are also really driven to try to make the article fit with their external interest. If they edit directly, this often leads to big battles with other editors.

What we ask editors to do who have a COI or who are paid, and want to work on articles where their COI is relevant, is:
 * a) if you want to create an article relevant to a COI you have, create the article as a draft through the WP:AFC process, disclose your COI on the Talk page with the Template:Connected contributor (paid) tag, and then submit the draft article for review (the AfC process sets up a nice big button for you to click when it is ready) so it can be reviewed before it publishes; and
 * b) And if you want to change content in any existing article on a topic where you have a COI, we ask you to
 * (i) disclose at the Talk page of the article with the Template:Connected contributor (paid) tag, putting it at the bottom of the beige box at the top of the page; and
 * (ii) propose content on the Talk page for others to review and implement before it goes live, instead of doing it directly yourself. Just open a new section, put the proposed content there, and just below the header (at the top of the editing window) please the  tag to flag it for other editors to review.  In general it should be relatively short so that it is not too much review at once.  Sometimes editors propose complete rewrites, providing a link to their sandbox for example.  This is OK to do but please be aware that it is lot more for volunteers to process and will probably take longer.

By following those "peer review" processes, editors with a COI can contribute where they have a COI, and the integrity of WP can be protected. We get some great contributions that way, when conflicted editors take the time to understand what kinds of proposals are OK under the content policies. (There are good faith paid editors here, who have signed and follow the Statement on Wikipedia from participating communications firms, and there are "black hat" paid editors here who lie about what they do and really harm Wikipedia).

But understanding the mission, and the policies and guidelines through which we realize the mission, is very important! There are a whole slew of policies and guidelines that govern content and behavior here in Wikipedia. Please see User:Jytdog/How for an overview of what Wikipedia is and is not (we are not a directory or a place to promote anything), and for an overview of the content and behavior policies and guidelines. Learning and following these is very important, and takes time. Please be aware that you have created a Wikipedia account, and this makes you a Wikipedian - you are obligated to pursue Wikipedia's mission first and foremost when you work here, and you are obligated to edit according to the policies and guidelines. Editing Wikipedia is a privilege that is freely offered to all, but the community restricts or completely takes that privilege away from people who will not edit and behave as Wikipedians.

I hope that makes sense to you.

I want to add here that per the WP:COI guideline, if you want to directly update simple, uncontroversial facts (for example, correcting the facts about where the company has offices) you can do that directly in the article, without making an edit request on the Talk page. Just be sure to always cite a reliable source for the information you change, and make sure it is simple, factual, uncontroversial content. If you are not sure if something is uncontroversial, please ask at the Talk page.

Will you please agree to learn and follow the content and behavioral policies and guidelines, and to follow the peer review processes going forward when you want to work on the Joel Block article or any article where your COI is relevant? Do let me know, and if anything above doesn't make sense I would be happy to discuss. Best regards Jytdog (talk) 20:59, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I see that you updated your userpage and have started a draft, with disclosure. That's great, thanks!  Would you please reply, and let me know that this is all makes sense, and why we do this?   There has been a lot of drama in the community about paid editing, and I want to be sure you understand well.  Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 00:25, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi Jytdog, thank you. I believe we do understand. If I have any questions at all, I will definitely ask you. Thank you so much for all of your help. 68.196.236.7 (talk) 19:02, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your reply. You said "we".  Please be sure that only one person uses this account, and that this person refers to him/herself as "I".  If other people from the operation want to edit Wikipedia, each one of them needs to have his or her own account, and is individually responsible for making the required disclosures and for following WP policies and guidelines.  We do not allow shared or corporate accounts here. OK? Jytdog (talk) 15:38, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay, thank you.Kaylatheprfreelancer (talk) 15:43, 4 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi Jytdog, I was wondering if you could help me. I believe I have followed all of your instructions on how to get my article : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Smith_(Hearst_Media) reviewed asap. Thank you for your help. Kaylatheprfreelancer (talk) 17:41, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
 * That was incorrect in a bunch of ways. I have moved it back to draft space.  I cleaned it up a little, as you can see in the history.  I also left you a note on the talk page, here. I appreciate that you are trying to work within the bounds of the PAID policy and COI guideline - thanks for that. Jytdog (talk) 18:11, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Mike Smith (Hearst Media) has been accepted
 Mike Smith (Hearst Media), which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. If your account is more than four days old and you have made at least 10 edits you can create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for Creation if you prefer. Thank you for helping improve Wikipedia! &mdash; Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 11:49, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
 * If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the  [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_talk/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Mike_Smith_(Hearst_Media) help desk] .
 * If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider.

MfD nomination of Draft:Mike Smith (businessman)
Draft:Mike Smith (businessman), a page which you created or substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Draft:Mike Smith (businessman) and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ). You are free to edit the content of Draft:Mike Smith (businessman) during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Legacypac (talk) 10:44, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Mike Smith (businessman) (November 17)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Legacypac was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Mike Smith (businessman) and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Mike Smith (businessman), click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "db-self" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Mike_Smith_(businessman) Articles for creation help desk] or on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Legacypac&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Mike_Smith_(businessman) reviewer's talk page].
 * You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Legacypac (talk) 12:31, 17 November 2018 (UTC)