User talk:Kboffice

November 2009
Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you.  -RadicalOne --- Contact Me  21:57, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Klaus Badelt
You appear to express a desire to rewrite the article on Klaus Badelt. Doing so would be welcome, provided Wikipedia Guidelines are followed: Additionally, you claimed to be one of Badelt's team. This does not hold any substance here on Wikipedia. Not only can the truth of your statement not be verified, it is in direct violation of a Wikipedia guideline of editing credentials.  -RadicalOne --- Contact Me  02:53, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Material must be properly sourced; see Verifiability and No original research.
 * It must conform to the rules governing the biographies of living persons.
 * Content must be editorially neutral.
 * Material must be free or conform to the Non-free content criteria. Direct copies or pastes from websites are not acceptable.

Reply by ShadowRanger

 * Somewhat more seriously, you need to pay close attention to the rules on conflict of interest, reliable sources and original research. We can't take edits on faith, and an argument from authority is not considered valid on its own. Wholesale copying from external websites is flat out forbidden unless the site in question has a licensing scheme compatible with Wikipedia. If you have reliable sources (personal knowledge doesn't count, others need to be able to verify them) and write your own neutral point of view prose referenced by those sources, then the edit is acceptable. If you can't provide that, then I'm sorry to say we cannot accept the edits. &mdash;ShadowRanger (talk 03:44, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Blech. Sorry for duplicating Radical's info. I read his post as only being the final line and missed the serious list of bullet points above it. I need to get more sleep. &mdash;ShadowRanger (talk 03:47, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Reply by Kboffice
I understand your point of view. First of all the biography we wanted to put up there was not copied and pasted from any other webpage, it is the only biography approved by Klaus Badelt, thus the source is Klaus Badelt himself. You claim that the content must be properly sourced and that is has to follow Wikipedia guidelines. How do you explain then that some facts on Klaus Badelt's site are not true at all? Apparently the person that put the article up did not follow any of your guidelines. Just an example, Klaus Badelt was neither born in 1968 nor in December. The information on the current page is just false and misleading. And what about the speculation that he did not compose the score for Pirates of the Caribbean? That statement does not follow any of your guidelines at all. It is hear-say, speculative, not true, misleading, and not neutral. The list just on this false statement could go on forever. This statement alone can damage Klaus' reputation and we probably should take legal actions to get it removed. If you are so hung up on guidelines then look at the article and remove all of the stuff which cannot be verified by reliable sources. You will see what will be left over then. Kboffice (talk) 04:16, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Reply by RadicalOne

 * First off, you are making blanket and baseless statements. Instead of actually providing examples of what you see to be wrong, you simply repeat "it's not neutral/correct/etc" over and over. I see nothing that is the defamation you claim, and as for factual inaccuracy, if you have conflicting information, post on the talk page; do not replace the entire article with an obvious copy-paste like you did before.

Also, have you just threatened legal action against Wikipedia? Doing so is strongly discouraged.  -RadicalOne --- Contact Me  04:39, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Reply by Kboffice
First of all I am not making baseless statements. You asked us to follow Wikipedia guidelines before we are editing the article, which we agreed to. I just wanted to point out that some things that are mentioned on the current page do not follow the guidelines you ask us to follow. Instead of looking into that you keep attacking us. And as I mentioned before, we did not replace the entire article with an obvious copy and pasty. I have the feeling I am repeating myself here. Kboffice (talk) 05:26, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Reply by RadicalOne

 * I get the feeling I am repeating myself, too. I did not have time to specifically address everything before, but I will do so now. Your main concerns seem to focus on an erroneous birth date and the comment about the POTC1 score.
 * Regarding the former, you are flat-out wrong. Checking two reputable sites, I get birthdates, while not specifying month, that both list it as 1968. Don't believe me? Check here and here. Such blatant inaccuracy puts your credibility in doubt.
 * Regarding the latter, the speculation arises from stylistic consistencies with Zimmer's work, and is not unique to Badelt. One example of a similar concept relates to - you must know this name if you are who you claim to be - Steve Jablonsky, who also wrote part of the POTC score, in point of fact. Jablonsky's score to Transformers (2007) is largely regarded as sheer imitation of Zimmer. A great many people have been rather vocal on both sides of this issue, with some reviewers criticizing and others defending Jablonsky, and with many fans doing one of the two as well. This is largely due to the fact that Zimmer's studio - which employs, among many others, Badelt and Jablonsky, has built its reputation and popularity on the genre of orchestral epics like Pirates, Transformers, Armageddon, and the like. Because of this, all Remote Control composers tend to write the same kind of music. Many people simply cannot tell the difference. There is another issue to consider as well. Zimmer was the producer's original choice for a composer, and Zimmer, unavailable, then suggested Badelt to the film studio. Because of time constraints, Zimmer ended up helping Badelt with many of the themes. Also notable is the fact that the POTC score seems to have two sides. One one side, Badelt is clearly the composer, with his liking for Celtic influence and instrumentation being demonstrated - one example is the track "Fog Bound" - and the other side consists of Zimmer-esque action theming, exemplified by the opening of "Barbossa is Hungry" and parts of "He's a Pirate".
 * And finally with regards to your obvious copy-and-paste: You did - from FACEBOOK - and the proof is here. A simple Google search of the first few sentences from your version of the article make that clear. Stop lying, get your facts straight, and try to be constructive. My patience for this crap is rapidly waning.  -RadicalOne --- Contact Me  21:10, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Reply by Kboffice
Regarding the birth date, I am sorry to say, but you are wrong. We are aware of the fact that the birthdate on Klaus' imdb page is 1968, which is wrong. Our PR person hasn't gotten around to change it yet, but you should check back in a couple of days. Concerning your other "reputable" site, they probably just copied the info from imdb.

You are right, the bio we wanted to put up on Wikipedia is the same bio as on Klaus facebook fan page. Because Klaus' fan page is run by himself and his team. I said that before and I am repeating myself, that is the only biography that Klaus has approved and that he wants to appear on the web. The source for the bio is from his own team, thus we did not copy and paste it from facebook because we have the source file.

I ask you to refrain from accusing me of lying. I will give you a last chance to work with us on improving Klaus' Wikipedia page. You are welcome to contact us via email (kbtech@me.com) and we can send you all the proof you need that we are in fact working for Klaus Badelt. Kboffice (talk) 22:07, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Reply by RadicalOne

 * One: EVERYWHERE it is listed as 1968. Either you are wrong, or there is a vast conspiracy against Badelt. Pick one.
 * Two: "You are right, the bio we wanted to put up on Wikipedia is the same bio as on Klaus facebook fan page." And this after vehemently denying copy and pasting. "I ask you to refrain from accusing me of lying"? I'm going to call you on it when you lie in that manner, as will others in other situations.
 * Three: "that is the only biography that Klaus has approved and that he wants to appear on the web"? You or Badelt do not control Wikipedia; unless there is an issue of libel, copyright violation, or some other illegality, you cannot force change. Wikipedia does not care who you claim to be. This seems to parallel images on Wikipedia; Wikipedia, like for text, requires freely licensed images. As such, the images that most PR representatives implore Wikipedia to use cannot be used, as they are not under such a license. It would do you well to learn how Wikipedia articles work before demanding specific content.
 * Four: "I will give you a last chance..." Is that a threat? Of what? Of the legal action you hinted at earlier?
 * Five: Your email links to another, obviously personal site - it screams "web hosting" - unaffiliated with the real composer. Nowhere on the site is there anything about Remote Control Productions - something I doubt Klaus would miss - and the YouTube page is an obvious fake. Not only is it rather obscure for such a famous composer - I have 13 times as many channel views - it has videos obviously not linked with Badelt. Not to mention the copyright infringement, uploading sections of the movies. You are what is colloquially known as a poser; Thank you for proving that you are lying about your identity, your credentials, your position, why you are here, and so on. Goodbye.  -RadicalOne --- Contact Me  22:26, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Reply by Kboffice
To Two I said I did not copy and paste it from Facebook, which I did not, his team wrote the biography, we have the source file. You may accuse me of copying the source file, which I never denied.

To Three Yes we do not control Wikipedia and we never intend to, we just wanted to get the facts about Klaus right. As far as I understand that is the same that you want.

To Four No, that was not a threat to take legal actions, just a reminder that this is the last time I will ask you to help us creating a Wikipedia page that reflects the truth. We wanted to work with you in a friendly way but apparently that is not possible. Thus, we will not ask again.

To Five Please check your facts, Klaus has his own company, that's why you could not find anything about Remote Control Productions. Maybe check imdb Pro, there you will find our contact information. You are welcome to give us a call.

Kboffice (talk) 23:21, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Reply by RadicalOne
You claim "his team wrote the biography". Can you prove this? More, copying the source material is still in violation of the Wikipedia policy. You want to get the facts about Klaus right? Then why are you pushing incorrect ones, like his birth date? Klaus has his own company? What is its name? And why, then, does its YouTube page refer - repeatedly - to the scores written by Badelt, which are Media Ventures property? More, why is the page of such a famous composer so obscure? ImdbPro? How convenient that some proof exists in an inaccessible location which one needs to pay fees to view.  -RadicalOne --- Contact Me  23:35, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Reply by Kboffice
That is what we are trying to do, but you don't let us. We want to put up a biography that follows all of the Wikipedia guidelines. As we are new to this whole Wikipedia editing thing and you a) seem to know the rules and b) are a fan of Klaus Badelt, we asked you for your help. And I am repeating myself, I am not pushing incorrect dates like his birthday, if you would contact us we can send you the proof that he was born in June, 1967. I just don't understand why you take info from other webpages for granted? We are just in the process of launching Klaus' new webpage and we are trying to straightening out all the false information that is on the web. But we just started and you may agree that this process will take a while. And you can't blame me that imdb Pro is not free, but if you checked the page you would know that you get a 30-day free trial. Please do that, get the contact info and feel free to contact us. Kboffice (talk) 23:53, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Reply by RadicalOne
How exactly do you propose to explain every single site on the internet getting his date of birth wrong? I find it hard to believe that somehow, everyone else is wrong, making the exact same error. You claim to have proof of Badelt's putative "real" date of birth; Can you post a link here? I'd like to see this proof.  -RadicalOne --- Contact Me  00:25, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Reply by Kboffice
The explanation is probably very simple. I would guess that they just copied the wrong birthdate from imdb, which we are working on getting changed. We can send you the proof of his birthdate if you are willing to contact us over the contact information on imdb Pro or by emailing us. I hope you understand that we are not posting anything on a webpage that is open to everyone. Beside that there is no risk for you contacting us. Kboffice (talk) 00:39, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Reply by RadicalOne
I fail to see what is so private about proof of age... If you must, I can be contacted through YouTube; that should be private.  -RadicalOne --- Contact Me  01:03, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Reply by Kboffice
The only way of properly proving age is through the presentation of some form of legal document. You do understand we are not posting it here. Please check your email that is linked to your Wikipedia account as another member of our team contacted you there. Kboffice (talk) 01:17, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Reply by RadicalOne
I received - and read - the email, and I have drawn the following conclusions: So this is how it will work. Go ahead and edit the article. I won't revert it. But chances are, someone else will. <font face="Courier New"><font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:black"> -RadicalOne --- Contact Me  01:27, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * 1. This is not an issue for me but rather one for an administrator, as the edition you desire is not in accordance with Wikipedia policy.
 * 2. The email - or at least significant portions of it - are written in a rather threatening tone and I want to have nothing to do with this.

Update by RadicalOne
I have removed the "there is debate about how much of the POTC score he composed" comment, replacing it with "One of his more famous - and more popular - scores is the score to the 2003 film Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl" - with a citation. <font face="Courier New"><font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:black"> -RadicalOne --- Contact Me  03:56, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Reply by Kboffice
Dear RadicalOne,

we and especially Klaus appreciate that you deleted this comment. We already changed his birthday on imdb to the correct date, but it takes up to two weeks until changes are final. Maybe you want to check imdb in a couple of weeks and then make the appropriate changes on Wikipedia. Thanks again. Kboffice (talk) 17:58, 27 November 2009 (UTC)