User talk:Keahapana/Archive 8

Apologies again
Hi, I'm sorry to have delayed the DRN case on Confucius Institute; I'm currently on holidays and do not have stable internet access, but I'll try my best to reopen it this week.--PCPP (talk) 09:10, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi PCPP, and thanks for the explanation. I hope we can reach an amicable resolution. Keahapana (talk) 20:59, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Not strictly Wikipedia
Hi Keahapana! Thanks for all your work, and especially your invaluable help with some of the stuff I've been working on (e.g., Kunlun Mountain (mythology) -- what a thing to get into! -- what a fertile ground for future research!), and, also, my commiserations to you, over the CI fiasco. Anyway, I was wondering if you had any thoughts on some non-strictly Wikipedia, somewhat related stuff. One is in regard to World Digital Library/Library of Congress content related to Classical Chinese poetry (per talk page of User:SarahStierch at User talk:SarahStierch, who's some sort of Wikipedian resident). The other is the glaring error at the University of Virginia's Tang 300 site (and ultimately AFPC, I guess), confusing Zhang Ji (poet from Hubei) (張繼) and Zhang Ji (poet from Jiangnan) (張籍). I wouldn't even know who to contact there (I may have previously pointed out that I am a poet, not an academic). Anyway, just wondering if you had any interest in this, or in sharing any thoughts in this regard? Dcattell (talk) 00:44, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Dcattell. The CI controversies page dispute isn't over, it's stalled while waiting for a new RfC to be filed (see above). Sure, I'll look into both these problems. For the first, see SarahStierch's talk page. The second looks easier, this CTI page has two email links for comments. Best wishes, Keahapana (talk) 03:50, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Li sao illustré 3 8.png

Hi, Keahapana, the Lord of the East reference was to the picture which User:SarahStrierch came up with and posted to Li Sao (a wonderful picture, and almost right), and which I moved to Jiu Ge (Dong Jun, see above, or to the side, or somewhere near here). I think the 2.1 image looks like an intro to "Li Sao", but I'm still working on trying to read through the series. The illustration files on Commons area at Category:Li Sao, but the whole reproduced work is at http://www.wdl.org/en/item/4459/zoom/#search_page=8&view_type=gallery&countries=CN, apparently the original work was taken apart and pasted down onto new pages, rebound into four volumes, but after some damage had already occurred, especially to the page edges. I downloaded the complete set of pdf's, and am in the process of looking through them. I'll look at the UVA link and silkqin.com (one of my favorite Websites, anyway, though I seem to spend too much time listening to the music, rather than reading through it!). Cheers! Dcattell (talk) 05:25, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Re: Nine-month delay
Hi Keahapana, I'm terribly sorry about the delay. I'm in hospital right now and has been here for the past month. If I can manage I will reopen the case by March 31th, if it's not open by then feel free to consider the case void and readd whatever you wish. Regards, PCPP.--PCPP (talk) 14:32, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * HI PCPP, I understand and hope you get well soon. Yes, of course, we can wait until the end of this month. Regards, Keahapana (talk) 19:47, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Notice of Dispute resolution discussion
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute in which you may have been involved. Content disputes can hold up article development, therefore we are requesting your participation to help find a resolution. The thread is "Concerns and controversies over Confucius Institutes". {| style="border: 0; width: 100%;"
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Hi Keahapana, just letting you know that I've reopened the DRN case, feel free to respond if you have time, thanks.--PCPP (talk) 13:37, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'm ready and willing to settle this. I hope your personal issues are all resolved and you are in good health again. Best wishes, Keahapana (talk) 01:26, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Hello, from a DR/N volunteer
This is a friendly reminder to involved parties that there is a current Dispute Resolution Noticeboard case still awaiting comments and replies. If the dispute is still ongoing, please add your input. Guy Macon (talk) 22:50, 14 April 2013 (UTC) --Guy Macon (talk) 22:50, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you for the improvements to Yiminaspis!--Mr Fink (talk) 00:31, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I was glad to assist. If you come across any other scientific nomenclature deriving from Chinese or Japanese, please let me know and I'll wikify it. Keahapana (talk) 03:46, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

This might be of interest.
Some recent news from Australia regarding CIs.

Hope all's well. Homunculus (duihua) 22:47, 27 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, all is well with me. Thanks for this useful link, which I'll eventually add into the C&CoCI article. It looks like the DRN was successful, and I'll wait a week or so for a reply before making the appropriate changes. Then I'll start adding the new refs, and any help would be appreciated. Best wishes, Keahapana (talk) 03:46, 28 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Hey Keahapana sorry for the delay again, I'll be out of the hospital this weekend and I should have time to work on the rest of the CI talk page. Cheers.--PCPP (talk) 09:35, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Good. I was wondering about you and would much prefer to have your cooperation on the changes. Since we've already waited a year I guess we can wait until next week. Get well soon. Keahapana (talk) 22:57, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

eight immortals
hello;

when you were cleaning up some non-english material on the article Eight Immortals, you also removed the link to commons?(which i have since restored)

was this accidental?

Lx 121 (talk) 21:59, 29 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, it was my mistake. Thanks for correcting it and informing me. Keahapana (talk) 20:07, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

WP:COMMON discussion
Because of your participation on Talk:Sinosphere, please check out Talk:Adoption of Chinese literary culture, which is about the dispute over the concept's WP:COMMON name.--Ross Monroe (talk) 21:30, 10 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Done. Thanks for letting me know about this discussion. Keahapana (talk) 01:57, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Xirong Part II
Hi Keahapana. The new map for the Xirong article is coming along nicely and while we're on the subject there seems to be a further issue. I am at a loss to see why there is a DAB page for Xirong that points to Xionites wherein there is not a single mention of the word "Xirong". Reading the article the Xionites appear to emanate from way to the west of Huaxia and it seems unlikely anyone would could confuse them with the Xirong. Apropos of that, I would like to get rid of the DAB page and replace it with the extant Xirong article. What say you? I'm also not sure how to do this since we would want to maintain the talk history for Xirong and one cannot copy over an existing article (i.e. the DAB page). May need an admin I suspect. Best Regards, ► Philg88 ◄ star.png 06:36, 24 August 2013 (UTC)


 * HI Philg88. Yes, you're right. I can't find any reliable Xirong-Xionite connection, and deleting the DAB seems like the best solution. The page history shows that Xirong originally redirected to Han chauvinism, then Chionites, and then Xionites. In June 2012, Mnmjnm added 20+ redirects to all kinds of Central Asian people, which was rolled back to the current page. The zh interwiki for Xionites is correctly titled Xiongniteren 匈尼特人, but the ja one is incorrectly Seijū 西戎 (maybe from the en page?). I just noticed there's a Xīróng (西戎) redirect to Xionites too, which is likewise unneeded. I've almost finished working on a new Siyi (Four Barbarians) page. Please take a look and make any corrections or changes you think appropriate. One thing that became clear is that Xirong, etc. were directionally generic terms and did not refer to any particular "people" or "tribe". Taking the 西 in Xirong to mean the 西方 (as in the Liji context), some scholars translate "barbarians in the west" or "western quarter/direction" rather than the usual "western barbarians". Thanks again for working on the map. Best regards, Keahapana (talk) 23:05, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Keahapana, I've requested a speedy delete for the Xirong and Xīróng (西戎) DAB/redirect pages - former will be replaced by Xirong (people) latter will vanish. New article looks good - I corrected one spelling mistake :) You could add a bit that says that referring to the British and their allies as 夷 was specifically prohibited in the 1857 Treaty of Tientsin. Best Regards, ► Philg88 ◄ star.png 11:32, 25 August 2013 (UTC)


 * Good. I just realized that it might be better to have the article titled Xirong instead of Xirong (people), for the semantic reason above and for parallel with Nanman, Beidi, and Dongyi (none with "people"). Thanks for the "wordview" correction, and I'll add the Treaty reference. In addition, I remember, but can't find, a modern usage of Siyi referring to four western powers (including England). Have you seen anything like that? Best regards, Keahapana (talk) 22:37, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi Keahapana. Yes, the Xirong (people)article has now been moved to Xirong. Sorry, I'm not familiar with a modern reference to "Siyi" but will keep my eyes open. Best, ► Philg88 ◄ star.png 06:29, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Map Request

 * Hi Keahapana! please can you tag your map request at the Graphics Lab as "resolved"? Thanks and best regards, ► Philg88 ◄ star.png 10:07, 1 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Done. No, thank you for creating this understandable map for WP readers. All best wishes, Keahapana (talk) 19:45, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

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Graphic pejoratives in written Chinese
Congratulations on the excellent new article - comprehensive and both well-written and researched. Well done! Best, ► Philg88 ◄ star.png 11:46, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Wow. Thanks very much. As you know, editing WP can be solitary work and it's gratifying to learn that others appreciate our contributions. I've got lots more graphic-pejorative material to add. Thanks again for creating the Siyi map. Best wishes, Keahapana (talk) 02:14, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Hsigo?
Hsigo flying monkeys (just off the top of my head) sounds amazingly familiar. Didn't someone do a prank on http://baike.baidu.com/ a year or two or so ago? Top 10 (or more?)self-made-up animals by the prankster, or something. Put up a bunch of silly articles, stayed up awhile, etc.... I'm not sure, I could try to research it, though it seemed kind of humorous at the time (at the expense of Baidu, to be sure. Best, Dcattell (talk) 05:10, 19 October 2013 (UTC) ....Yeah...."Baidu": must of been a hundred... Dcattell (talk) 05:25, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Chuckle, do you mean bai "hundred"? I never heard about this prank and would love to see it. Keahapana (talk) 20:52, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Never got to a hundred, but there was an anti-censorship thing which I remember. Not sure whether hsigo was actually part of it, or if I just ran into it when looking it up, when editing "Chinese mythology". It was pretty funny, since it was a play on the Baidu animal theme, but kind of explicitly making fun of them in regard to their content regulation versus their free editorial contributions -- one of the reasons I contribute to Wikipedia -- sometimes I think the other is that sometimes I forget it's not my personal online notebook!(but then there are the stimulating contributions of others...). Anyway, the made-up animals portrayed features critical of censorship, and Baidu specifically. Someone actually more-or-less took credit for it. I think I downloaded some of the material onto a local hard drive, which may be more or less accessible. I don't see anything about it on a quick Internet search (although archive may be available). Just working off memory here, but sorry if you missed it! Maybe we can dig it up. Dcattell (talk) 10:39, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Xiao (mythology)
Anyway, congratulations on the "Xiao (mythology)" article. Definitely more than a stub! I think I left the spurious "Hsigo" in the "Simian" section, since it otherwise would have been a bit empty (and, besides, I never know if such things are Pokémon characters, or such). 囂 has somewhat of a verbal aspect to it. I've been interested how the exiled poets of Tang and Song endured so many nights in lonely mountain temples with the continuous simian/hominid howls, which also emanated from both banks of the Yangzi gorges during perilous passages. I suppose mythology is inherently messy, with people born before their grandparents, monkey-birds, and so on. These monkeys(?)/lemurs/gibbons/goblins are often not seen, and are only known by their menacing cries. In other cases, the poets claim to have personally fended off "goblins". On that note, we have the other xiao of mythology: "Xiāo (魈; xiao1): mountain spirit or demon", as its listed in "Chinese mythology". (Just as an observation).
 * Good observation. The Feilong and Kui articles mention shanxiao 山魈, which sounds vaguely familiar to me . Keahapana (talk) 20:52, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

& "Hsigo" again
On the one hand, reminds me a bit of "Daoshi", which doesn't seem such a bad article now, does it? Maybe not entirely necessary. On the otherhand "hsigo" seem like annoying little Frankenstein monsters. They exist because Wikipedia said they existed, and now the genii's out of the bottle.... Deleting the article, and let someone reconstitute if and when... with a better reference than some less Harry Potteresque source wouldn't be the worst thing. It doesn't seem to have much current support, and no reliable referencing. Metamythology? Cheers Dcattell (talk) 17:29, 19 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'd forgotten about the original Daoshi article. "Potteresque" is an apt description, a word with over 54,000 ghits. Check Talk:Hsigo for a Borges connection that I just found. Best wishes, Keahapana (talk) 20:52, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Another xiao
Interestingly enough there is another xiao, the Xiao Yang, 梟楊, mentioned in the "Xian (Taoism)" article. Also, apparently taxonomically in the primate family, despite the suggestion of bird-like (owlish) qualities from 梟. (Ai shi ming, line 113. David Hawkes glosses it as a "hideous man-eating demon living in solitary places." And says further, in his notes to Ai shi ming, that it is "an anthropoid monster" with a big upper lip covering his face when his sinister laugh indicated he was about to dine on human flesh. The 楊 character seems fit enough for an advance guard for someone apparently named after a tree, 赤松! Dcattell (talk) 16:44, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

New story from The Nation
This is one of the more comprehensive examinations of the CIs that I have seen to date. Homunculus (duihua) 15:04, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Wow, this is a formidable condemnation of CIs, particularly since Marshall Sahlins wrote it. From a quick read, it looks like many of the criticisms are already in the WP article, but we should add all additional relevant information. It will be several days or a week before I have time to work on this. Would you be able to start sooner? If not, we could post The Nation link on the Talk pages of the CI and CI criticisms articles, and someone else might begin. Thanks for sending me this link, Keahapana (talk) 00:27, 3 November 2013 (UTC)


 * If time allows I'll write something up, though I also can't foresee having too much time to devote to Wikipedia for the next few weeks. Let's see who gets to it first. Homunculus (duihua) 03:47, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Requested article
You have an article waiting for you to download. Please mark it when done. OhanaUnitedTalk page 21:51, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for finding this. Best wishes, Keahapana (talk) 00:44, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Monkey!
Regarding "Monkey" article: probably not too hard. I thought that by "Ox in Chinese mythology," that maybe I'd worked out a basic outline scheme for such an article (general, about Chinese mythology, somewhat related to the 12 calendar critters, etc.). But, overly simplified for task. Anyway, the very interesting subject of the potential diversity of recorded Chinese thought on simians of various types deserves an article (articles...?).... and, a lazy voice in my head goes "Why not by the Year of the Monkey, starting February 2016?" Maybe better ignore natural history somewhat; as, how much is known? I've been reading how "gibbons" inhabited -- noisily -- as far as Lantian County, just south of Chang'an, during the time when Wang Wei (8th century poet) wrote a poem asserting this, dedicated to an imperial parks and forest inspector (as mentioned, more or less, in #9 of Stimson's 55 T'ang Poems, backed up more or less by some on-line material from the Gibbon Conservation Alliance's Gibbon Journal, Nr. 4 May 2008, based on evidence from painting surveys). After all, the various more or less mythological "gibbons," "apes," and other simianoids of Chinese culture deserve an article on English Wikipedia, most likely something like "Monkeys in Chinese mythology" (as opposed to a more singular focus on that popular rascal Sun Wukong). Good luck! Best! Dcattell (talk) 08:14, 9 December 2013 (UTC)


 * PS if there's anything I can do to help, don't hesitate to let me know (I've found some pictures interesting along these lines, etc.)! Dcattell (talk) 08:32, 9 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Many thanks and yes, I'll probably adapt your bovine format. I'll let you know when I get started monkeying around, but first have to finish working on Cold-Food Powder (which has been fun to research). Your comments on gibbons reminded me of a great book: Van Gulik's (1967) The Gibbon in China: An Essay in Chinese Animal Lore. I have a copy somewhere; huh, it's in Google Books. Thanks again and Happy Holidays, Keahapana (talk) 00:51, 11 December 2013 (UTC)