User talk:Keith D/Archive 28

Listed buildings and church of england churches cats for Lincs
Hi Keith - as you probably noticed Ive been working on finding "something" to write about for the previously redlinked Lincolnshire Villages. Been working my way through A-Z with a fair bit of help from User:Acabashi who is following me doing copyedits and etc for the same. We have come to the point where we are unsure what to do regarding Categories for Church of England churches in Lincolnshire, and Grade I II* and II listed buildings - as he points out, the articles in question are in regard to the entire village/hamlet - not the building in question. However, it seems to me to be unlikely that Ill be able (or anyone else) to create a reasonable seperate page for said buildings, as not enough information is available. So, do we add the category lists to the village/hamlet pages, or do we not? It seems sad to me that if we cannot reasonably do that, then an awful lot of churches and listed buildings will not be added to their relevent categories? Also one final thing, please could you do one of your bot-sweeps for Lincolnshire articles - (I THINK thats what it is anyway!) as I have now reached N and a lot of recently created articles are missing from the WikiProject Lincolnshire group. Many many thanks for your help. Panderoona (talk) 18:15, 16 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi, thanks for the hard work on all of the Lincolnshire places. I am surprised what can be written about church buildings, take St Stephen's Church, Copley as an example. Though that is not going to happen for most of them and a section in the location article is best we can hope for. I would suggest that you set up a redirect from the church article name to the section in the location article. You can then add the categories to the redirect. This will get the appropriate entry in the category, it will show in italics to indicate it is a redirect. I usually tag the redirects with the project tag setting the class to "Redir" so they can be tracked and changes detected.
 * I do not have a BOT for tagging, I just use AWB to locate the appropriate articles. I will run through my usual tagging when I get AWB started. Keith D (talk) 19:08, 16 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I have now been round tagging the articles in the Lincolnshire categories and updated the watchlist files. Keith D (talk) 23:08, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Kulmerland/Chelmno land
Hi, I notice you've undid the attempts to move back the article to its proper name in the past. Basically this article was moved improperly, against consensus, without a RM, with only some bogus google searches as back up on August 3, 2008 and the original title quickly salted   in order to prevent moving back the article and apparently out of spite  (the user has since been indefinitely banned from the topic area. So basically the article needs to go its old proper title of "Chełmno land" but the move feature cannot be used to do this.

Which means that, since apparently a cut-n-paste move cannot work, an administrator such as yourself needs to move it back. An alternative would be to do a cut-n-paste move but then make a dummy edit to indicate attribution (I've seen this done before in similar tricky cases). Or the present Kulmerland article can be made into a disambiguation page, separate articles on Kulmerland (Teutonic province) and Kulmerland (ship) can be created, while the page Chełmno land which is presently a redirect can be made into a proper article - this would essentially involve splitting the article information. Any thoughts on which one of these would be the best course of action? Moving back the article to its original title would be the simplest and solve the solve problem directly.Volunteer Marek (talk) 09:58, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * As there is little useful history at Chełmno Land, I would be inclined to just delete it and move the present article over from Kulmerland. Though the last couple of edits that you made yesterday could be merged in as long as there have been no more edits since. I assume it should be with a capital "L" as there is no article under lower case "l". I can move it if you require. Keith D (talk) 10:45, 20 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, I think that would work. I can re-make the edits myself. And yes, I think it should be a capital L here. Thanks!Volunteer Marek (talk) 10:49, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * OK. I have moved it (at second attempt) and added your later 3 edits. hope it is OK now. Keith D (talk) 11:36, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks!Volunteer Marek (talk) 12:09, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Whitby
I'm still clunky after being absent from editing for a while. What still needs doing to Whitby? Are there any new "rules" that I should know about to get it to GA. please?--Harkey (talk) 18:17, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Do not think that there is anything new that needs to be done. The main thing as I see it is the referencing where there are several bits still needing cites adding. The middle bit of Landmarks needs some referencing, I was going to convert the heights/areas but was hoping for a reference that would give imperial versions to keep the article imperial first throughout. The twinning section is unreferenced and Literature is also thin on references.
 * Good to see a few of us getting stuck in and improving an article - a refreshing change. Keith D (talk) 18:33, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for not getting back to you
Re User talk:Keith D Georgian Railways and. I tried the internet and got no where. I would guess that the only way to confirm this one is to find a very, very, antigue copy of Jane's World Railways. Peter Horn User talk 18:52, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * User talk:Keith D/Archive 27, ah, this is better. Peter Horn User talk 21:38, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Railroad Gauge Width, this site is of no help Peter Horn User talk 21:43, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Hull City A.F.C.
Hi. I'm not really in with the kit designing on here (got a little lucky with the new York kits with there already being a matching template), but I see it was User:Bruno-ban who made the template for the home kit. Perhaps you could drop him a line and see if he'd mind doing the away kit? And thanks, I got a new camera recently and went a little trigger happy on its first outing! Cheers, Mattythewhite (talk) 00:02, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Bruno-ban has come up with the goods and I have now updated the page. 17:37, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
Template talk:WebCite I updated the template. It is now working with a new parameter. mabdul 18:00, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for the change. Keith D (talk) 20:57, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Scarborough castle
Hi Keith, I'm trying to get some of the books mentioned in the citations from North Yorkshire Libraries. They may take a few days (maybe up to a week), though. --Harkey (talk) 16:43, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. I tried both Coventry and Warwickshire libraries but neither had anything in stock at any of their branches that covered the castle. I was going to have a look in Hull next time I was up there. I would have thought that North Yorkshire would have most of the titles in stock, probably at the Scarborough branch. Keith D (talk) 17:36, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Stan Collymore
Hi Keith. The Stan Collymore page is just about the worst wp:BLP I touch and I would support anyone stripping it down to properly cited statements. Cleverjanous committed a serious libel by suggesting Collymore was dead. It can seriously offend relatives particularly if the person is actually ill, and I feel he should have been given a final warning.

Regards JRPG (talk) 22:25, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I should have issued a warning when I reverted the change. I have given them an initial warning as it is the first message on their talk page. Keith D (talk) 22:31, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

East Riding of Yorkshire
Will this do for the election results?--Harkey (talk) 18:07, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

GENUKI
Hi Keith,

I had in the past merrily added Genuki pages as inline refs until I read a WP discussion (can’t find it now) about the veracity of the site. I now only add as an external link, which seems innocuous enough.

Genuki is described as a primary source (here), and is staffed by voluntary contributors (here), although I can find no indication on the site that contributors are vetted by the website or their contributions peer reviewed. I suspect much or all that is written is accurate even though most is unreferenced. The site pages often include promo stuff (eg on this page unnder "Description and Travel") that I happily take scissors to on WP, and indeed provides its own helpful tourist links (here) for those wanting to spend their money on self-catering cottages, camp sites and golf – perhaps this helps pay for the servers.

Do you know if there has been WP guidance on how to use this site, if at all, and do you have any views and advice on this ?

Secondly, a style question on citing the source. The site logo is full caps "GENUKI", but this appears to run against WP trademarks and MOS:ALLCAPS. I’ve been tending therefore to write it as "Genuki", or to be safe, just writing the "www.genuki.org.uk" link. Could you give your opinion on this ?

Many thanks, Acabashi (talk) 19:20, 2 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I think that those doing the updating of the site do the vetting of the user supplied information - Lou does for the Lincolnshire pages that he maintains. I do not think that the site makes any money from the advertising links just recommended places by people who submit them. I also do not recall anything about the site being discussed.
 * We do have GENUKI article which uses all uppercase letters as it is an abbreviation. PamD created some templates for Yorkshire articles, see Genukiwry, she may know more about this. Keith D (talk) 19:39, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Many thanks, I'll ask her. I shall look again for the discussion - it was there. The site may vet, I can quite believe it does, but I see no statement indicating this quality control (in a primary source which allows advertising via its contributors) - I may well have missed it. The article has to be headed in upper case of course, but further references to it on WP might not have to be, re MOS. I appreciate the speedy response. Acabashi (talk) 20:10, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Hope you dont mind Keith, if I pop this in here, since it seems to make sense to consolidate the whole GENUKI question on one page. I rarely use it as a cite, although I often check the page as it very often gives clues as to what to look for etc on other sites. If I can find relevant info elsewhere I use the elsewhere. The one exception to this seems to be in regard to church redundancies, where its often noted that a church is closed with a date, whereas other sites often have no date. If I cant find it elsewhere, I do use that. I also write GENUKI in caps... :S possible big woops. Panderoona (talk) 20:26, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily your big woops - might be mine - just want to get clarification. Acabashi (talk) 20:31, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed:) Panderoona (talk) 20:45, 2 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Hi, PamD coming to chip in to the discussion. I think GENUKI is worth adding as an external link as it links to so much useful information not appropriate to be copied wholesale into WP articles, but relevant to the area and useful to some readers of WP. I created a set of 4 templates to cover the parishes of Yorkshire: I get the impression that Yorkshire is one of the more thorough areas of GENUKI, as it is certainly patchy across the country (each county being maintained by different people). It looks to me as if Lincolnshire is unusual, if not unique, in having a "Holidays and Touring" section with commercial links - search GENUKI on either of those words and it is conspicuously near the top among a collection of dissimilar pages!  In any case the tiny amount of commercial links in Lincolnshire does not seem to me to be an "objectionalbe amount of advertising", to quote WP:ELNO.  I always use caps for it, but if there was a decision that it should be written as "Genuki", I could change the 4 templates for Yorkshire.  It would be easy to construct similar templates for other counties, on the model of the Yorkshire ones (Genukiwry etc - I should possibly have used more caps in the template names, as they use the county codes WRY for West Riding of Yorkshire, etc). PamD (talk) 21:06, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I have to agree that the site is patchy on information. Yorkshire and Lincolnshire are particularly well covered, Warwickshire is poorly covered and most of its pages just have a description from a directory created by the chap who maintains the Yorkshire pages. Keith D (talk) 21:27, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Butting in... I have aways used GENUKI (caps) as I took it to be an abbreviation. I have never seen the commercial links: quite a surprise. The transcriptions of original material (for Yorkshire)have been accurate whenever I have checked against originals e.g.. The historical snippits from gazeteers are as accurate as any 19th century writings were. A bit obsequious in some cases & they tended to copy from each other quite a lot. On the whole I have found them as reliable at transcribing as FreeBMD and Ancestry. Pity there are no images of the originals to check against. A good pointer to other sources and sometimes the only "reliable" source for a statement made on a commercial website.--Harkey (talk) 22:39, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Carlton-le-Moorland
Hi Keith,

Could you look at this one please? An interesting case of "get your copyvio in first", and certainly original research as it stands. Never come across a whole article that is personally signed with the excuse that what is there is going to be the village web site blurb. Don't quite know what is the appropriate response to this. Acabashi (talk) 08:40, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I have had to remove the whole lot for the moment and left a note on the article's talk page. Keith D (talk) 14:54, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I had a bit of a go at it in the hope that whoever that was will get an idea of what we are trying to achieve. Panderoona (talk) 18:32, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - August 2011
Delivered August 2011 by ENewsBot. If you do not wish to receive the newsletter, please add an * before your username on the Project Mainpage. → Please direct all enquiries regarding this newsletter to the WikiProject talk page. → Newsletter delivered by ENewsBot (info) · 04:48, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Flipping the output
Hi Keith,

I'm puzzled that you flipped the display of Greeme Horne from what was displayed in the Huddersfield Giants. The data I supplied was as given by the Huddersfield Giants, supplemented with Imperial measures in parentheses. You mentioned flipping the date in your edit description so I was surprised to find that you had changed other data. Michael Glass (talk) 23:50, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I flipped the data as it is a UK article and I expect heights/weights to be imperial first for those related to the UK. Also that was the established order for the article until you changed it round.Keith D (talk) 23:58, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Before I checked the information the height of the player was out by about 5cm (2 inches) and the weight by 10kg (11lb) from that given by the Giants, so the information was not established, just guessed at. I followed the data given by the Huddersfield Giants, surely that's appropriate! Michael Glass (talk) 00:22, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I was talking about the order being established. Flipping keeps the data the same but the order follows the existing order of the article. Keith D (talk) 00:25, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I know that, but surely the usage of Huddersfield Giants (and most of the other Rugby League teams) would take precedence in a sporting context! Michael Glass (talk) 01:13, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I must say I find this conversation surprising. Although miles are still used for roads Britain has officially used metric units for longer than I care to remember and generations of children have been schooled in metric. Is there really a rule about putting imperial first for UK related articles?--Charles (talk) 08:54, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * As with most things in wiki the first formatting of the thing usually rules, such as date format, ref format, etc., so as the article was with imperial first it should remain with imperial first. I personally prefer imperial first for UK/US articles. Keith D (talk) 12:33, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

The first formatting rule can be appropriate when usage is stable, as with most of the differences between English and American spelling. However, when usage is changing it becomes problematical. This certainly applies to the some uses of the metric system in Great Britain. The Huddersfield Giants and almost every other rugby league team in Britain use kilograms for weight and centimetres for height of their players. Therefore I see no reason for not following their usage in this case. Michael Glass (talk) 13:36, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Foo school, Sheffield
Has there been any opposition to this? If not, please proceed with the others in. (The comma looks neater to me.) I ask because I have just opened a cfd nom on, which should obviously use the same name as the article. Occuli (talk) 13:38, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I have been converting them over as I come across them but have not gone round looking for them. There was discussion at some point at WikiProject Schools and I think that the comma for UK schools was more favourable but no agreement was reached. I have not had any reverted that I know about. I did one at the beginning of the month where the cat is now out of step with the article see King James's Grammar School, Almondbury Keith D (talk) 13:52, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I've done 2 redirects + KES. I'll see if any outrage ensues. Occuli (talk) 15:27, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

James Fowler (architect)
Could you do an assessment for the Lincs project on this new one please? Many thanks. Acabashi (talk) 03:06, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I have done that. There is a problem with the place of birth, the infobox has Lichfield while the text has Litchfield. Keith D (talk) 10:50, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pointing that out - corrected the typo. Acabashi (talk) 18:23, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

A bit like tomato sauce!
Hi Keith, I now have the books on Scarborough and James Cook, the Whitby peer review is through and I have to go to a funeral in Kent next week. Its a bit like:

Tomato sauce,

shake the bottle,

none'll come,

and then a lot'll.

I'll get on to stuff when I can. :-)--Harkey (talk) 20:04, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for letting me know, I had not spotted the Whitby review, I was thinking that it would get archived without any comments. Keith D (talk) 20:08, 12 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry about the US dates. I do the refs with a Firefox add on Cite4Wiki that has both formats. I keep hitting the wrong item on the menu. I'll try harder in future. :-(--Harkey (talk) 11:22, 13 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks - I have got used to searching for wrong style dates in articles. Keith D (talk) 11:24, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Barmston
Are the two things the same - "Barmston" is definately the historical name, the downloadable spreadsheet at http://www.ons.gov.uk/about-statistics/geography/products/geog-products-area/names-codes/administrative/index.html doesn't list anything with "fraisthorpe", also search for postcode YO25 8PJ ..

If they're the same then using a redirect under either title with a "also known as ..." should do it. But I'm not sure if they are actually the same thing?

I don't really know what the answer is. Imgaril (talk) 12:22, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I have used the name used by the East Riding County Council for all of the East riding of Yorkshire civil parishes this avoids the use of the dab of (civil parish) which just complicates the matter. I know in some cases this is at variance with the O/S and what was the original CP name on the ONS site. I must say that I thought that I had added the council stats page as a ref when I added the areas to the civil parish articles (those that are not named after a village) but obviously missed Barmston. Keith D (talk) 18:28, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Jonathan Silver
Hello there, Just wanted to get your opinion on this. BradfordPal has created a page called Jonathan Silver (Salts Mill). Presumably becuase the existing page Jonathan Silver is currently a redirect to the band Genesis article - John Silver was a drummer in the band. For starters the redirect is obviously wrong - it should point to John Silver, if anywhere. Assuming you think that the Salts Mill Jonathan Silver is sufficiently notable for an article, I wonder if his article should be named differently - possibly even being the straight Jonathan Silver - however I don't have sufficient priveleges to do that. A disambiguation page is probably needed too, which I could create, but no point doing that until we're happy with what pages we have. What do you think? Nick Watts (talk) 16:25, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Above article is very heavily based on this with a few minor changes. --GuillaumeTell 17:58, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I have my doubts about notability of this person as has already been tagged by another admin who appears to have performed the moves for the page. As they have left it for the moment see what develops. May be that link should go on the page as the reference as it is currently unreferenced. Keith D (talk) 18:44, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Have added that source and a Yorkshire Post article which gives quite a bit more about him, and done a bit of cleanup on the article. Pam  D  19:13, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Keith D (talk) 19:16, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Lissett and Ulrome
Civil parish, as above, moved to Ulrome (civil parish) (I'm assuming that "Ulrome CP" would be more confusing.) I found quote: Eddie Bartram, chairman of Lissett and Ulrome Parish Council - still don't really know if the parish councils are the same as civil parishes because I'm not really a geographer - but wonder if civil parishes can choose to call themselves what they like at a local level? (The official uses seems to be just "Ulrome" though eg OS map etc.)

If you need to swap it back do that, but please leave the redirect, and disambiguation - because I wasn't looking for the OS title, so I guess others will be looking for that too. Maybe someone local on WP:Yorkshire will know what is going on here? Imgaril (talk) 17:07, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * As per above I must say I do not like the use of the (civil parish) qualifier and think it better to go be common name and council usage. Keith D (talk) 18:32, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Katie O'Brien
Just incase you missed it in the reference, "Former British number one Katie O'Brien has announced her retirement from competitive tennis". Afro ( Talk ) 12:03, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I missed it as I did a search for retire and it did not find it for some reason. Thanks for the prod. Keith D (talk) 12:35, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Scarborough Castle
Do you know of any WP:GAs about castles, please. I can only find Nunney Castle. I'd like somthing to model the Scarborough Castle article on.--Harkey (talk) 20:41, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
 * There is Aberdour Castle and at FA Bodiam Castle. Keith D (talk) 20:57, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you. It's a bit late to start this evening. I'll have a go tomorrow evening.--Harkey (talk) 21:04, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

UK Miners' strike (1984-1985)
Have doubts about Christian1985's intervetions as he is not particularly subjective (his views are obviously far right wing and he has frequently and unpleasantly espoused hatred,abuse and contempt for those with liberal/moderate/left wing views;just check his talk page if you don't believe me),so I don't think he is entitled to contribute to this page objectively and fairly as he so clearly wants biased right wing opinons expressed on this subject.-- 13:55, 17 August 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.97.22.69 (talk)
 * Don't you hurl accusations at me on here. I am NOT 'far right wing' at all and I have not espoused hatred or abuse at anyone. I suggest you retract these offensive remarks immediately. I am perfectly entitled to edit what I want you can't tell me what yo do. I suggest your remove this nonsense now. Christian1985 (talk) 21:51, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

IP 80.235.236.54
Hi thanks for your help with the Rachel Reeves article. I've noticed quite a few non neutral edits by the IP in question and tried to deal with most of the one to the Reeves article. The contribution here to the [Armley asbestos disaster] is also breaches npov quite significantly and just seems rather promotional in tone and context. I don't really know much about the topic so I wondered if you could take a look seeing as it is Yorkshire related. Thanks.--Shakehandsman (talk) 18:00, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I have no knowledge of the topic either. The edit was made last year and has remained largely unaltered though has has a few tweaks and a reference added. Keith D (talk) 18:36, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I have trimmed the first sentence a little but cannot see any obvious changes to make to it. Keith D (talk) 19:31, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Undo a move
Hi, can you undo this move ? The move was done without discussion, it has spelling/grammar errors in the new name, is factually incorrect (the dude was High Duke of Poland primarily, not duke of silesia) is obviously controversial and POV and then the mover salted the redirect so that it could not be moved back through standard means.

I left a comment on the article's talk page as well.

Thanks.Volunteer Marek (talk) 21:04, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I have restored to original name - but did not see the salting when I did the move. Keith D (talk) 21:13, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh ok, thanks.Volunteer Marek (talk) 21:37, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Sigh. Volunteer Marek (talk) 09:55, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I have restored to original title and move protected this time. Keith D (talk) 10:41, 19 August 2011 (UTC)


 * There is an Arbitration request regarding user:Smith2006. As one of the editors that has reverted his recent changes, you may wish to comment. Thank you. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 14:22, 19 August 2011 (UTC)