User talk:Keresaspa/Archive 11

Surprise
Look who I added to the rogue's gallery today: Donald Hodgen. Alas it needs a lot of fleshing out, especially from the time that he joined the UDA to become C Coy's chief enforcer.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:24, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't worry about that, he is a big character in Lister and Jordan so I should be able to add a bunch of stuff later on. Keresaspa (talk) 17:29, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Great! Thanks a million!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:02, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That's the best I can muster. Keresaspa (talk) 00:36, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * And the result is fantastic!! You did a marvelous job making the article informative, highly-readable and well-sourced. Thanks once again.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:12, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. I knew the Mad Dog book would have plenty about him. Keresaspa (talk) 20:57, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Got another idea!
Seeing as UDA West Belfast Brigade more than adequately covers C Company thereby making a separate article redundant, I've another idea by which we can list the C Company members. Why not create a C Company category?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 13:01, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Just did it and its being added to lots of articles!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:27, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I made it a subcategory of Category:Ulster Defence Association members so you might be as well to remove everybody in the C Company category from that unless they were also associated with another section of the UDA for a significant period. Keresaspa (talk) 20:57, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh so whoever is in C Company category cannot be listed in the main UDA as well?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 04:57, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Some might get a bit snippy about it because as I made C Company a subcategory of the main UDA members category it is implied that everybody in the C Company category is a UDA member. You will often see articles in a subcategory and a main category but it is supposed to be avoided according to WP:SUBCAT. That's why, for example, John Hume is not in Category:Social Democratic and Labour Party politicians as his inclusion in Category:Social Democratic and Labour Party MPs (UK) means it is presumed he's an SDLP politician. Mind you, it's not that important in the grand scheme really. Keresaspa (talk) 17:34, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * To save myself work I'll wait and see if someone notices it LOL. BTW, this is our wee secret!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:38, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Goes without saying. Not the sort of thing would concern me really. Keresaspa (talk) 18:20, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Tommy English
Just a heads up that I've written an article on Tommy English. I've found a little on his last few years, and lots on his death, but there's not much on his time in the UDA - I don't know whether there's anything in your books? Thanks, Warofdreams talk 11:56, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Strangely enough, I was searching for info on former UVF chief of Staff Tommy West, but kept coming up with Tommy English instead. He's quite notable and there should be plenty about him in books.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:34, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the work on the article and the nice comment on my talk page! You have both been doing some great work over the past few months, and I was finally inspired to create a new article when I saw his name in a few places. Warofdreams talk 15:13, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I never even thought about doing an article on English as my mind was set on finding something about Tommy West. I'm glad you decided to create a page on him. I added an image with a non-free rationale.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:38, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Good work, folks. I'll see what I can add after me dinner! Keresaspa (talk) 18:02, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the additions! Today's submission is John "Bunter" Graham.  There's lots to say about him, but most sources are understandably rather cautious in how they report it. Warofdreams talk 14:06, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I like it. You handled a very sensitive topic regarding a BLP with much discretion and at the same time provided quite a bit of information which is a difficult task considering the circumstances and who its alleged he is.Very good show inded, Warofdreams. I made a few minor tweaks.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:11, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well done again Warofdreams. I'll have a scout around for anything to add, although obviously I'll tread carefully on this one. Keresaspa (talk) 16:35, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I had wanted to do an article on him a while back but was reluctant to do so as it required the delicacy of a cat on a hot tin roof. Warofdreams carried off this feat magnificently. I'm glad we have a page on Bunter.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:43, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

And they say vice doesn't pay
Today, I left behind the wee hard men and created a page on this 16th-century dolly bird.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:55, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * New one on me, mate. I still have a variety of far right moochers to create myself. Keresaspa (talk) 17:08, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Back in 2008 I created an article on her conrade-in-arms Charlotte de Sauve.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:24, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Again, new to me. Really not my time period. The likes of Waldemar Pabst, Ferdinand Ďurčanský and Max Liebermann von Sonnenberg would be more my sort of thing. Keresaspa (talk) 17:42, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I adore the 16th-century as it was a century which saw the rule (both de jure and de facto of many very powerful and influential women: Anne Boleyn and Elizabeth I in England, Mary, Queen of Scots in Scotland, Catherine de' Medici in France and Elizabeth Bathory in Hungary. This trend had started in the 15th-century with Margaret of Anjou.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:01, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * We did a bit of Elizabethan history in school and to be honest I was glad when it was over. Like most boys around 12-14 I was just itching for us to get on to the Second World War. By the time I did my BA in history (and politics) my interests were still in that period as well as the Nineteenth Century and even bits of the early Middle Ages but the Tudors and that never really caught my imagination. Keresaspa (talk) 23:26, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I am also interested in both World Wars and the Middle Ages. BYW, those articles you linked to above are great. You did a fantastic job on them.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:39, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm more a dabbler in the Middle Ages, I wouldn't claim any real expertise. A bit of a hangover from my early teens when I went through my role playing games phase I reckon! Keresaspa (talk) 22:56, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

This guy?
Would UVF member Norman Sayers be notable enough for his own article?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:09, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * If you think so and have the sources but I can't see anything. I can find some sources but none of them seem to be much more than incidental mentions. He is frequently described as a "top UVF man" but it is never elaborated on. Keresaspa (talk) 22:55, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I believe he was a gun-runner. But I'll need to come up with more info before I can consider doing a page on him. Harry Stockman seems notable as well and he was very high-ranking. Another person whom I think we can find plenty of sourced info on is Jackie Mahood.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:59, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Sources seem very limited for all the UVF men because of how secretive they are. Mahood seems to have some available although most of them are about his death so it would probably be unbalanced but from what I can see looks the most doable. Keresaspa (talk) 17:20, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * If only I still lived in Dublin. I'd pay a wee visit to the National Library where they have copies of all the back issues of The News Letter. I used to spend hours poring over the pages. I'm sure I'd find plenty of info.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:29, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Jackie Mahood is now available for your editing pleasure. Keresaspa (talk) 17:36, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * This has got to be the fastest article-creation in the history of Wikipedia and it looks good!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:47, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It's still very incomplete at the minute but it will do for a start. I haven't looked online yet so hopefully more will turn up. Keresaspa (talk) 17:55, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I know HighBeam will have stuff on him. I added more to the Billy Wright article this morning and Mahood came up in the articles I was sourcing from.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:58, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That's what I was banking on to be honest. Keresaspa (talk) 17:59, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll get to work on it tomorrow starting with the HighBeam articles.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:02, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Stickin' out! Keresaspa (talk) 18:08, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Another crazy suggestion
Well, they encourage us to be bold, so here I am being just that making a suggestion. How about we add a section to the Shankill Road article about the various pubs and their colourful histories including the Rex, Imperial, the Brown Bear, Bayardo, Windsor Bar, Lawnbrook social club, etc, etc.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:03, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Would it not be easier to just integrate them with the section on the part of the road they are found on? Otherwise you might have to start filling it up with anecdotes. Obviously if you want to do it then no problem but any more than one or two sentences for each might be overkill. Keresaspa (talk) 17:18, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I suppose you're right. The pubs are all pretty notable but a section might be considered unorthodox as no other Wikipedia articles has a section on a given street's drinking dens and watering holes.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:32, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't let me put you off or anything and I don't see why adding a bit about the more notable ones to the relevant sections would not be a good thing. As a section though I do agree that it might be a bit unorthodox. Keresaspa (talk) 17:37, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll get around to following your suggestion. I can see it's by far the better option.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:52, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * If nothing else it would give the article a better sense of how central to life on the road paramilitary activity was. Keresaspa (talk) 17:59, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes and how much was actually planned and conducted in the pubs themselves. I don't think their republican counterparts were that brazen.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:04, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * No that does rather seem to be specific to loyalism. Keresaspa (talk) 18:07, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Rex Bar
I had originally assumed the Rex Bar was on the Middle Shankill-it being a UVF haunt and all, but when I did a Google it said it was on the Lower Shankill. I shoud have used Google map. Thanks for correcting my error. Oh, an IP inserted a strange prediction on the Sandy Row article-namly that the huge UDA/UFF mural is to be removed this summer. I reverted him as he didn't provide a source! Would you happen to know wher exactly the Windsor and Long Bar stood?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:09, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Lower and Middle Shankill are really just local unofficial things but the usual demarcation line is Northumberland Street/Agnes Street and the Rex is a couple of hundred yards beyond that. It's just past Crimea Street although it appears to be on a corner of a now defunct street that I'm told was called Moscow Street once upon a time. There aren't any boozers in the lower Shankill apart from the Diamond Jubilee these days and even it has shrunk. Windsor Bar was on the corner of Downing Street (lower Shankill) and the Long Bar close to Northumberland Street (also lower Shankill). I hasten to add I have no reliable sources for the location of either (or the Moscow Street thing) and they are both long gone. Oh and IP address is, for once, right as that announcement was made today . C'est la vie I suppose as from an artistic point of view it is one of the poorer ones and it is pretty derivative. Keresaspa (talk) 18:28, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I have just moved the Long Bar and Windsor Bar to their proper locations in the Lower Shankill section. A pity their aree no proper photos of the "Brown Bear", but I suppose it would have been a foolhardy thing to stand outside the pub snapping pictures considering who were coming and going!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:50, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * On the car park/bit of waste ground (delete as applicable) where the Brown Bear was there is a temporary hoarding thing with a brief history of the pub. It's put up by the local historical society so obviously it is kid gloves treatment/lies (delete as applicable) but a nice touch nonetheless. And funnily enough there was a Red Hand Commando mural quite nearby that actually was pretty nice that has also been removed recently. A lot of these are biting the dust now. I wonder if being painted over has any impact on their copyright status?! Keresaspa (talk) 19:15, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Forgot to mention that the Malvern Arms was also on the lower Shankill. Keresaspa (talk) 20:31, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Is that a UDA or UVF pub? I remember all the King Billy murals back in the 80s. Oh where the "Brown Bear" stood is now a carpark? Typical.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:47, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Check your e-mails for more on these topics and others! Keresaspa (talk) 19:53, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

I think technically speaking you could still call The Pony Club on Malvern Street an active drinking establishment.With regards to The Rex I think its actually been closed for a few months now and I recall a recent arson attack on The Berlin Arms on the Shankill Road too.DColt (talk) 14:08, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The Pony Club could indeed be counted as could the Ulster Rangers Club. Rex looked pretty open when I passed it the other day. Keresaspa (talk) 23:04, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Weren't you tempted to go in LOL?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:59, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I did go into the Mountainview to, shall we say, use the powder room once but the Rex - never in a million years! Keresaspa (talk) 17:21, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

I just had to create this page
What do you think so far: Jimmy Nesbitt (RUC)?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:21, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Cripes that was quick. The book I edited the John Weir article from might have some useful stuff on him. Keresaspa (talk) 23:08, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I added more to the article. What do you think? BTW, would you happen to know when he retired and the year he received the MBE?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:21, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * It looks smart and no mistake. I added a couple of small bits but you have everything covered already really. Keresaspa (talk) 17:45, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually I've just noticed that he looms quite large in "The Committee" so I'll see what I can glean from it after dinner. Keresaspa (talk) 17:52, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh lovely, that way the article will look more balanced. Oh read the bit about his opinion on how killers live with themselves. Wanna bet that leading Mid-Ulster UVF man was wee Jacko?!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:41, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Now done it. He emerges from the Committee as a much dodgier character, all things considered. And if that's not RJ I'll eat my hat. Keresaspa (talk) 18:56, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * That was exactly the convoluted logic Jacko employed. I spent most of the day padding out the article. Does it look OK? I like the work you're doing on the loyalist template.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:37, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I've always reckoned the Jacko article was probably your finest work on here. It's top standard. About the templates - that was an idea I was toying with. I'm not 100% sure that the basic loyalist paramilitaries template we have now is as useful as it could be and it struck me that it might be better to have three separate ones, one for each group, also brining in other related articles beyond members. I still have a doubt in my mind about whether I should go ahead that's why I kept them in my namespace. I was hoping for your input actually seeing as if I did do it you would be dealing with them a heck of a lot. Keresaspa (talk) 17:43, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Why not get some feedback from other editors such as Asarlai?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:51, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I was thinking that. I was going to approach the original creator of the loyalists template but he seems to have retired. Keresaspa (talk) 18:53, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I like your idea of the three separate templates. They are easier to follow seeing as we've added so many new articles since the oroginal template was created. Oh you'll need to add Rosemary Nelson to the LVF template under prominent victims.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:56, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I hesitated over Nelson as her article says Red Hand Defenders and Wikipedia still seems to be working under the delusion that they actually exist as a distinct group. But listen, even though they're on my sandbox page you're more than welcome to make any changes that you think would improve them. At least that way it would seem less like something I've knocked up unilaterally and decided to impose. Keresaspa (talk) 19:01, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I think I've managed to add the new UDA template to all the members' articles. It looks good.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:46, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Cheers mate, nice one. And as an addendum to the previous discussion I can confirm the Rex Bar is still going strong. It was absolutely packed today for some reason. Keresaspa (talk) 18:12, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps Stephen Nolan was on his way to interview the patrons to find out whether they knew what Lenny Murphy was up to?!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:21, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Too busy feeding his face down at the KFC to be annoyed :D Keresaspa (talk) 18:33, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm KFC, wonder who delivered the chickens? (Twilight Zone theme plays...)--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:40, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Told you he was still alive! Keresaspa (talk) 23:30, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Do you own a copy of McPhilemy's The Committee? I believe there are details of Jackson's funeral in the book. It's strange he had a private funeral rather than a paramilitary one.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:57, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Certainly not. That's illegal here you know. Keresaspa (talk) 00:04, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Yesterday I had a preview of heaven

 * Spent the day getting drenched by torrential rain on the Lisburn and Falls Roads myself. I'm not sure which of us saw the better scenery or weather :D Keresaspa (talk) 23:22, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Weather and scenery apart, I would dearly love to walk down a Belfast street again. My E-Mail hasn't been working since yesterday, probably needs an update. A pity Ireland was beaten by Croazia.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:14, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The weather has been filthy recently here. Every day now the rain is just torrential. I suspect the Mayans be right about 2012! My computer has been running slower than a tortoise on quaaludes recently and my hotmail account has been freezing constantly as a result. Annoying. As for Ireland, not bothered one way or the other myself as I don't support either of the Ireland teams. I don't really do patriotism. Keresaspa (talk) 00:17, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * We're having an intense heatwave down south, but in the North of Italy there have been thunderstorms and a freak tornado in Venice which uprooted a few trees.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:31, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * A couple of weeks ago it was boiling hot here and like a total moron I decided to walk up the Ballygomartin Road to the junction with Upper Whiterock near the summit of Black Mountain. Although I have dark brown hair I have ginger style fair skin so I got the worst sunburn I have had in years as a result of being exposed on a mountain top. Still it was (almost) worth it for the amazing panoramic view and the urban cattle. Since then it has rained every day. including the heaviest rain I have seen in years earlier this week. Again like a moron I was taking a stroll in it and got soaked the whole way from the middle of the Lisburn Road, across Stockman's Lane as far as Kennedy Way. How I didn't get pneumonia is anybody's guess! Keresaspa (talk) 00:30, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Any ideas?
I would really like to create a new article but just cannot think of any person or event that's got enough information available on which to source. Ideas? Suggestions?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:45, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Not got a clue to be honest. Keresaspa (talk) 23:44, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I might take a look through the Peter Taylor book, see if I can find anything which could be expanded into an article.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:06, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Why not do that expansion job you wanted on Down Orange Welfare? Keresaspa (talk) 23:29, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, that article could definitely be expanded. I was also thinking that Chris Hudson would make a good subject for an article. I had wanted to do a page on him a while back but got distracted by another subject, so he was put on the shelf.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:25, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Normally I would have acted on your suggestion regarding Down Orange Welfare but the stuff I wrote to begin with was all I could find. Not a lot of coverage out there really. Keresaspa (talk) 19:09, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I expanded the Down Orange Welfare article somewhat and added a couple of refs, but am stymied by the lack of further information which I need to really proerly flesh out the page. Weir only mentions the weapons, Breen and the RUC used as middlemen. He gives the name of the man who actually manufactured the guns but I left it out due to possible BLP issues. I did provide the location though.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:49, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Anything on the to do list or list of UDA brigadiers appeal? If not, there are those last two UVF Chiefs of Staff, and I'd love to see an article on the Red Hand Commando Billy Elliot.  Obviously, some of those are very short on sources. Warofdreams talk 11:22, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Everything I found I already added so I know what you mean. They only existed for a short while so it's not surprising really. Keresaspa (talk) 23:25, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Regarding the last two UVF Chiefs of Staff, I assume you are referring to Tommy West and the elusive "Mr Smith"? The latter is totally out of the question as his identity is a mystery; as for West we are stymied by the lack of sources and substantial info. Billy Elliot of the RHC would be grand providing we can find enough info on him.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 11:28, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I've seen a few comments online from people who think they know what "Mr Smith"'s full name was, and they agree on it, but if they are correct, he seems to be entirely unmentioned elsewhere, so I agree that an article there looks impossible. Sadly, as you say, the same is probably true of several of those other suggestions. Warofdreams talk 11:48, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, I yielded to temptation (somewhere I am hearing Heaven 17 playing) and created the Billy Elliot (RHC) article. If you can add any info please do. I have heard that "Mr Smith's" actual name was something Harding Smith and that he's related to the former UDA leader Charles Harding Smith.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 13:44, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Great work on the new article. I can't find anything more on him at the moment - but you've found plenty for a decent article.  You've evidently seen the same things about "Mr Smith" - and even those small bits of information aren't sufficiently verifiable. Warofdreams talk 14:45, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll check Google Books to see if i can find more stuff on Elliot; preferably about his other activities within the RHC apart from the terrible Margaret Wright killing.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:37, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, very good work. I had never even thought of Elliot personally. Keresaspa (talk) 19:09, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for all your additions and improvements!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:36, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, it was nothing (almost literally). Keresaspa (talk) 23:25, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The article's looking better and better! One other idea for an article, if you're still searching: there's a lot out there on Eddie Kinner. Warofdreams talk 15:25, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you, but I'm not sure if I really want to spend time here creating and improving the encyclopedia when my work gets reverted and deemed OR. I have given over four years to the project but am going through a period where I just couldn't be bothered. Thanks again for your praise as it is very much appreciated.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:13, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Billy Wright's Protestant denomination
Would you happen to know Billy Wright's exact denomination prior to becoming a born-again Christian? A notable Free Presbyterian minister officiated at his funeral indicating he was most likely a member of this church; however his dad's funeral was held at a Baptist church and I believe I once read that his mother is buried at the Drumcree cemetery which is Church of Ireland. This makes his own religion hard to figure out. Thanks.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:46, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * "Although brought up in the strong Presbyterian faith, attending church twice on Sundays..." - Chris Anderson, Billy Boy - The Life and Death of LVF Leader Billy Wright, Edinburgh: Mainstream Publishing, 2007, p. 23. That solves that one then! Keresaspa (talk) 23:34, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks a million. I have just added it to his article.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:05, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Good show. Keresaspa (talk) 23:29, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

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The goregrinder is back!!
I've had enough of all those goregrind concerts at the beach!!! LOL.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:31, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Can't beat a bit of it! Keresaspa (talk) 17:53, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * My daughter is a fan of the "Saw" slasher films. Yuck.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:49, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * So being gory runs in the family then :D Never seen them myself - not a big film buff. Keresaspa (talk) 23:16, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I've never been a fan of Stephen King or slasher films. I prefer thrillers.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:38, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I very rarely watch films myself but for horror movies I preferred the old Hammer ones as their high camp is much better than the gore and guts of modern ones. Keresaspa (talk) 17:20, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Schweizerischer Vaterländischer Verband
I's added the required reference for founding date and also listed more literature about SVV on Talk page there. Pavel Vozenilek (talk) 00:10, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks good. I wasn't doubting your word or anything I just thought it would be better with a source. Is there anything else worth adding to the article out of that book? I would do it myself but I can't read German. Keresaspa (talk) 00:26, 9 July 2012 (UTC)


 * I merely browsed articles, noticed the difference between Wikipedia and everything else and fixed it. I do not have access to the listed books, only what Google Books shows. The German language book about Swiss innner security contains relevant details about the era, especially the general strike of 1918 (not covered in Wikipedia, not even by a red link). I, however, do not have enough of knowledge to edit this topic. Pavel Vozenilek (talk) 00:40, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks anyway :) Keresaspa (talk) 00:45, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

A QUICK HELLO
How are you Keresaspa? I am still on holiday at the beach. TODAY WAS BOILING HOT EVEN THE WATER!! Georgeous...spent the day swimming! Take care. --Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:49, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I was wondering where you had got to. Not long back myself actually after my time in rainy London. Keresaspa (talk) 23:11, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

New image
I uploaded an image of a YCV flag to it's page.Apologies for the shoddy quality and for its location on the ground.The photo was actually taken at a Republican Internment bonfire.The flag had been stolen from a loyalist area and it was the only chance I had to get a snap of it before it got toasted!It was from last year and I only remembered I had the photo.DColt (talk) 19:08, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You're too hard on yourself, that's a good image and a useful addition to the article. I tried to get one of a flag that myself from a lamppost but the wind here never blows quite right and my zoom lens is a bit weak so that's far better. Nice work! Keresaspa (talk) 00:18, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Seeing as the two YCVs used the same emblem and the modern flag has the original YCV's battles listed on it I added your image to the 1912 YCV's article as well. Keresaspa (talk) 19:11, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Seeing as the flag is lying on the ground I think the caption should say that the flag was about to be burned at a Republican Internment bonfire. Let me also add that it is indeed a nice image, DColt!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:46, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Heres another newbie and quite a rarity.A UFF flag in Finvoy(a rural area outside Rasharkin).These flags don't appear too often nowadays and in a random place too so I couldn't resist.Its been added to the main UDA page.DColt (talk) 18:59, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed you hardly ever see them now. Saw one in Monkstown about a year ago but I didn't have the camera with me. Good capture. Keresaspa (talk) 00:06, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

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Back from paradise
I've returned for good from my two months at the beach. Still drying myself out after all the swimming I did. Anyroad, I had a fantastic time!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:54, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Two months?! How the other lives eh :D I was beginning to think you had just walked away from all this nonsense. Not been overly busy in your absence and I've been virtually inactive on Troubles articles. When I have been on I've been catching up on my earlier far right articles, some of which were in an awful state. I was also in London, Dublin and (briefly) your old stamping ground of Brighton myself so that took me away from here. Glad you had a good time and hope you're battle-ready once more :D Keresaspa (talk) 17:12, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I have already had ny first post-holiday battle. See my talk page and the subsequent noticeboard insults I was forced to put up with. Now I'm being accused of "tainting the project". Fuck this place and most of the people who skulk around the pages. I hope I get reported. I really do.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:50, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Welcome back eh. Never changes round these parts. This is why I keep interaction on here to a bare minimum. Keresaspa (talk) 23:31, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the welcome. At least you make me feel glad to be here. You are wise to retrain from too much contact with other editors such as ref desks, etc. People somehow find the courage to say things to a PC screen that they'd never manage to conjure up in a real-life situation.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:25, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
 * People on the internet in general just tend to be a lot ruder in my experience so I largely stay out of all that sort of stuff. It's a large part of why I have never gotten involved in all the Facebook and Twitter nonsense. On here you have the added fun that everybody (admittedly including myself on occasion) is a self-proclaimed expert who knows more about whatever the topic is than you and everybody else. And of course they're brave behind computer screens because in real life they're all probably about five feet six with a stutter and a patch over one lens of their glasses! Keresaspa (talk) 17:45, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You notice these types never reply to comments straight away. They alsways wait a couple of hours only to come back with a manifesto nobody can even be bothered to follow.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 19:02, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Probably off calling up the meat puppet troops the way they invariably do! Keresaspa (talk) 00:25, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep. You'll note they all use the same words to back each other up.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:00, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

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Desmond Balmer
Ever heard of Des Balmer? I saw several death notices for him dating from 2008 (when he died) and one of these was from Anthony "Chuck" Berry of Windsor Bar fame!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 13:30, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

I recall that name from Martin Dillon's book on the Shankill Butchers.DColt (talk) 21:56, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Doesn't ring a bell. Keresaspa (talk) 00:09, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Notice in the Belfast Telegraph-http://www.belfasttelegraphclassified.co.uk/advert/FD2-085358628/BALMER-DESMOND-DESY DColt (talk) 10:49, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Shankill Butchers book extract http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fnatf8OHp0kC&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=dessie+balmer+uvf&source=bl&ots=rWtnj1FDi2&sig=rIuRQ0bCSnIcMoG0dHnjaKRik2M&hl=en#v=onepage&q=dessie%20balmer%20uvf&f=false DColt (talk) 10:49, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I saw one notice from Anthony "Chuck" Berry. Balmer was obviously a regualar patron of the Windsor Bar. Thanks for linking to these, DColt.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 13:22, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Welcome back
Glad to have you back here, Keresaspa. Wikipedia was an arid desert full of circling, snarling wolves without you.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:44, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Cheers, mate. I'm still around, I just haven't been on much as I've been bogged down in real world stuff, most of it to do with redecorating the house - God, I hate DIY! I was on a wild goose chase for wallpaper in east Belfast yesterday hence my addition to the Andy Tyrie article. No idea what the Andy Tyrie Interpretative Centre is about but it reeks of an ACE Empire to me. Keresaspa (talk) 19:27, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, DIY can be a pain, and sometimes ends up costing as much as hiring professionals to do the job. Never heard of the Andy Tyrie Interpretative Centre but it's a good photo! Last weekend I spent at the beach. It was lovely returning even for just a few days. At least I did some swimming and was able to dance two nights at my favourite disco! We had a thunderstorm Saturday afternoon and I took some lovely pictures at the beach just before the storm broke.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:52, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't mind DIY if I wasn't so bad at it. I'm a naturally very clumsy guy so anything that requires dexterity and precision is a no-no for me. Andy Tyrie Centre must have only recently opened as when I was over that way a few weeks ago that sign wasn't there. Mind you I try to avoid the Newtownards Road as I find it a rather depressing place for some reason. It's no "worse" than West Belfast in terms of being run-down and economically deprived but, whilst I'm happy to while away my time on the Shankill, Falls or Glen Road, I hate going into east Belfast for some reason. Smart pics too - I was on Brighton beach for a little while recently but that's about it as I generally avoid beaches due to my very fair skin burning far too easily. I'm not ginger but my complexion would make you think I am. I like the picture on the right best - the sky is very dramatic in it and well captured. Sky pictures often get overexposed but if you get them just right they look amazing. Beautiful looking town too - it looks very old. Keresaspa (talk) 16:28, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Taormina in the backdrop up on the hills is ancient as is Naxos which was Sicily's first colony, but actual Giardini where the beach is located didn't have much human settlement prior to the 17th century as it was used as orchards by the Greeks. I used to live in Brighton-has great night life and a lively pub scene. Have most of the old buildings on Newtownards Road been demolished by the planners?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:36, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It's just got that style that I associate with southern Italy. One thing's for sure, if a town existed in Northern Ireland built like that it would be demolished ASAP! I was in Brighton for a day when I was in London during the summer. Nifty enough town although I didn't care for the pier much as I have a phobia of crossing bridges and the like and there was too many opportunities to gamble (I never gamble as once I start I can't stop). One side of the lower Newtownards Road has had a lot of redevelopment (the side with Dee Street on it) whilst the other side has more older buildings, although recently it too has seen the wrecking balls arrive. There are a bunch of empty shops on that side which lay untouched until very recently when some bright spark got the idea of bolting pretend shop fronts onto the front of them. I have to say it is possibly the shoddiest thing I have ever seen, tantamount to saying "we know there is no hope of anybody ever renting these dumps so we'll just pretend they're in use in case any Titanic themed tourist bus happens to pass as we wouldn't want visitors to think the recession is crippling us". Just leave them as they are as at least the properly derelict buildings have a bit of character about them and if they're accessible the homeless can doss in them when the really bad weather comes along. Mind you, nothing those morons on the council do surprises me any more. Come next year when the hype is dead I fully expect them to paint visitors on the walls of the Titanic Centre due to there being no more visitors :D Keresaspa (talk) 16:51, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * At least if they left a few old traditional buildings standing, the next time a film is set in Belfast it could actually be filmed there!!!!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:12, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Just had a look at the fake shopfronts. What a monument to crashing bad taste. Shoddy doesn't begin to describe the eyesores. Why not leave the buildings in their natural state?!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:15, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It beggars belief really doesn't it? The worst of it is the Council probably blew a wedge of green on some worthless "consultancy" fees only for the overpaid idiots to come up with that ludicrous plan. The buildings themselves will stand for a while until the right "offer" (for which read bribe) comes in then they'll be demolished and the land sold off to some hateful property developer for a fraction of its real value, with the councillors suddenly able to mysteriously afford brand new cars or loft extensions. A bunch of jerry-built "apartments" will then be flung up and the gentrification of another working class area will continue, with the real residents chucked out to hellholes like the Ballybeen estate or Tullycarnet, all conveniently located outside the limits of the Belfast City Council area. Money doesn't so much talk here as scream at the top of its lungs! Keresaspa (talk) 17:21, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Jeez and I thought Italy was about as corrupt as a place could get. THe poor working-class keep getting shafted.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:26, 7 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Think of all the areas like the Pound Loney and Sailortown that have disappeared from the inner city and if building patterns are anything to go by the Market won't be far behind. Meanwhile you get the appearance of places like Rathcoole, Monkstown and Ballyduff in the north, Ballybeen, Tullycarnet and Braniel in the east and Twinbrook, Poleglass and Lagmore in the west, all conveniently outside the city limits and all with shocking amenities. Lagmore has one primary school for several thousand displaced residents and they're building more houses up there as we speak. I dread to think what class sizes must be like but the chances of a good education in those circumstances is negligible. Still, it's not Belfast City Council's problem as it's outside their jurisdiction whilst the other councils (Newtownabbey, Castlereagh and Lisburn respectively) are not only just as crooked but also have a lot less money due to being able to claim less rates. Why we need so many councils, and MPs and an Assembly is a mystery to everybody but considering these decisions are made by politicians it's rather like asking the turkeys to vote for Christmas. There have been plans to reduce the number of councils for decades but they keep being delayed and even then they don't go nearly far enough but the main parties have to keep their people in money and unfortunately people vote on sectarian lines in the council elections too. You get the odd sensible councillor elected like Mark Langhammer but inevitably they get swamped by the same old DUP-Sinn Fein rabble taking their orders from McGuinness and Robinson so it's the same the whole place over. Shambles, but it shows no signs of changing as people still vote these morons regardless. Keresaspa (talk) 17:40, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * And they wonder why rioting breaks out on these far-flung and dreary estates?!!! If neighbourhoods like Pound Loney and Sailortown had not been demolished I wonder if rioting would have been as intense during the Troubles?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:48, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Funnily enough I was reading about the Lenadoon trouble in 1972 earlier and it just contrasted with the mixture of Sailortown so much. And nice pic again. So are your kids Italian then? Keresaspa (talk) 00:14, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * My youngest two are: Richard was born in Naples and Tataina in Catania. My eldest two sons are Irish-both Dubliners.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:03, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It must have been pretty scary moving to a country with a totally different language and culture. Keresaspa (talk) 17:15, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh and before I forget, you may have got a weird e-mail purporting to be from me. Ignore it - my account was hacked by a spambot which fired off e-mails to my whole address list. I've changed my password now so it shouldn't bother you again hopefully. Keresaspa (talk) 17:29, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Just checked and there aren't any e-mails from this spambot. How did he manage to hack your account? How scary.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:35, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It's happened to me a few times before. I guess they just have random number and letter generators that keep trying to find your password and eventually manage to do it. All they ever do is send out spammy e-mails to everybody on your list but that's a nuisance as people will be tempted to click on the links in the e-mails as they assume it is from me. I've got e-mails from people myself where it is supposedly somebody I know but it is obviously an account hack. Fortunately the e-mail address hacked is the account I use for talking to friends and other fairly flippant stuff rather than my more formal account for my bank and the like. I keep that separate and rarely give it out just in case. Keresaspa (talk) 18:01, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Johnny Adair
I've been caught up in revamping the Adair page. I was surprised by the few details it had on his expulsion from Northern Ireland.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 19:02, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Nice one! Keresaspa (talk) 23:26, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
 * There is still a lot that needs to be added especially regarding the "loyalist day of culture" and his feuding with the UVF and other UDA brigadiers.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:56, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'll get on it later, although the day of culture bit doesn't look too bad to my eyes. Keresaspa (talk) 17:57, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Wow, you really added a lot of good stuff to the page. It looks complete now. Excellent job as usual. Oh, would you happen to have the page number in the Lister & Jordan book where Adair makes his notorious "Catholics normally travel in the boot of my car" statement? Thanks.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:30, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Cheers. I'll have a look for the page number later. I don't think it was me who added that line so I'll have to have a bit of a dig for it. Keresaspa (talk) 19:01, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I did a bit of cleanup on the William James Fulton page. I'll see what I can unearth over at HighBeam.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:49, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I noticed your additions to Jim Fulton last night. Good work. It looks a lot better since we had a go at it as the article was pretty atrocious to begin with. Keresaspa (talk) 16:05, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * All I basically did was tighten it up a bit, expanded the lead and Billy Wright's founding the LVF. Some of the same info was repeated in every paragraph! I had meant to work on it today but ended up editing Brendan Hughes!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:17, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
 * You referenced his family background too, which was a bit of a glaring omission given the Prentice link. Two leading figures in the Mid Ulster UVF related to alleged Committee members - imagine that! Keresaspa (talk) 16:24, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Found another one
I came across this guy: James "Tonto" Watt whilst reading a peek of Dillon's Shankill Butchers on Google Books. It seems that he was the UVF's top bomb maker so decided to create an article on him this morning. Would you happen to have any info on him to flesh this page out? Thanks a million!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:26, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Nothing unfortunately. He doesn't figure in Cusack & McDonald or any of the rest and everything in the Shankill Butchers has already been included by you. I'll keep looking but I've drawn a complete blank so far. Keresaspa (talk) 23:28, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Isn't that typical? Being the UVF's chief bomb maker should attract media interest, yet they often ignore the big wheels for the little spokes like Taylor did in Loyalists. Thanks anyway.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:30, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Publicity goes to them that want it I suppose. Keresaspa (talk) 15:59, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
 * It's strange that there was only one article that mentioned him on HighBeam. I found his name mentioned in lots of books on Google but they all said that he was the UVF's top bombmaker and nothing more.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:03, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
 * He just never wanted to talk, I guess. Keresaspa (talk) 23:39, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
 * He'd most likely been involved in numerous bombing attacks, given he was the head buck cat UVF bomber. But he obviously isn't going to admit the attacks he wasn't convicted of so he's keeping quiet and staying out of the limelight. Wise course of action to take considering he's now a preacher!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:06, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
 * To be fair I suppose they weren't crash hot at the bombings compared to the Provos. But definitely when they find God they always seek to downplay the past. Keresaspa (talk) 00:54, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree. I'd say the only UVF bomber on par with the IRA was Billy Hanna with his military history which is why the Dublin and Monaghan bombings caused such carnage and devastation. You'll note that after his death the UVF never attempted similar,, large-scale attacks. I have noted a lot of the prisoners who suddenly "see the light" want to forget their dark past"!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:03, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Definitely about Hanna - militarily he was a big loss to them once he had his breakdown after the bombings. And definitely about the prisoners who see the light too, even though a couple of pastors kept their hand in with the LVF. Keresaspa (talk) 19:13, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

And yet another
I created this article today: Harry Stockman. I figured being the UVF second-in-command merits an article! Thoughts?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:05, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Good work. He's pretty recent so I'm not sure if he'll show up in any of the books but I'll check later on. Meanwhile I've added a note to the Harry Stockman article in case anybody goes there looking for him. I can almost guess who you'll create next from this one. Keresaspa (talk) 18:41, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and checked there now and found nothing. I suspected as much to be honest as he was very low profile until the stabbing. If you're looking to expand the number of articles on more recent UVF Brigade Staff members I imagine it will be the same for all of them as they are a lot more clandestine than the UDA. Keresaspa (talk) 18:59, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your edits-article is definitely improved. I like your "reputed" instead of "rumoured". Yes, I'd like to do a page on David Madine, although his dad Billy "Dog" was obviously the more notable of the two. Alas, there's scanty info available apart from the juicy stuff one finds on blogs.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:41, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I found nothing of substance to add unfortunately, just added a few of my linguistic quirks. I think reputed gives the statement a bit more of an authoritative air. You got the notion that Bunter is hetman from a reliable source so reputed makes it clear that it is likely to be true because you trust the source, whereas rumoured (to me anyway) makes it sound like a bloke down the pub told you. Have you found much on David Madine as, like I mentioned, he and his daddykins are conspicuous by their absence in the books. Keresaspa (talk) 18:47, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I like the way you write so thanks for improving the phrasing. David seems to get more newspaper coverage for the attempted murder of Stockman than his dad gets for his entire life despite the latter having been a big wheel in the UVF who even sat on the Brigade Staff during the 1970s. He's dead but there still remains a wall of silence surrounding his activities.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 11:56, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Is there anything else about David Madine in the coverage apart from the Stockman incident? I only ask because if there isn't you run the risk of it being nominated for deletion as there is some rule about articles needing to demonstrate notability for more than one thing. OK, we know he is but if it isn't in reliable sources you know what they're like. Information on most of the UVF ones is pretty scarce, unless they ended up in the PUP or died violently. There again they never really shared the UDA's taste for publicity. Keresaspa (talk) 19:19, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about Madine. He's really only notable for having stabbed Stockman and I'm not sure about his rank in the UVF. I'll do some more checking to see if he appears in other sources apart from the stabbing. His dad should have an article as he was a big wheel..--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:00, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't let me put you off doing the article or anything as I don't know what all you have found but it did just occur to me that the risk of somebody making that argument does exist. Keresaspa (talk) 00:04, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

I recall when he was stabbed the Sunday World newspaper included in the story how Stockman worked on the factory floor in Bombardier.Unfortunately thought the Sunday World isn't exactly known for it's accuracy and theres no online version of it.DColt (talk) 13:28, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The Sunday World's website is worse than useless really isn't it? There's nothing on there. Keresaspa (talk) 00:04, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Shankill Mirror Photo
Flicking online I discovered a memorial notice placed in the Shankill Mirror for Brian Robinson, beside the notice was a photograph of him and his mother.I wonder if it would be eligible for use on his article.Sensitivites aside it would be a great addition.DColt (talk) 13:20, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, seeing as he's deceased it would come under Non-Free Fair Use. It would enhance the article. Nice work, DColt!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 13:41, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
 * What she said basically. As long as he's dead and there are no free images available (which there aren't) then it's fair game. Keresaspa (talk) 00:05, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

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Ramble Inn attack
Now here's another attack that has been completely overlooked by the media. It's Like the "Rose and Crown" bombing- a wall of silence built around both events. Strange?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:04, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I suppose of they ever give free access to digitised newspaper archives from that time there would be more available but unfortunately pub attacks were a dime a dozen in the mid 70s so they're all a bit ignored now. Keresaspa (talk) 15:59, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * When I lived in Dublin I often passed many a rainy afternoon in the Dublin National Library going through back issues of the News Letter. The 1975 and 1976 issues were full of attacks such as Ramble Inn. Not a day passed when there wasn't a sectarian shooting or town centre being bombed.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:15, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Very much. As you probably worked out from my recent edits I got a copy of "Lost Lives" recently and there are about three years in the 70s that combined are longer the whole rest of the book. What an awful time it was - glad I wasn't born until 79! Keresaspa (talk) 16:21, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Gloomy stuff. I remember always leaving the library feeling very depressed after having read about so much death and destruction meted out on a daily basis. And so many of these atrocities have been forgotten. For instance nobody writes about the horrific Michelle O'Connor car-bombing in 1975. She was a three-year-old girl killed when the bomb meant for her dad blew up as he drove her to nursery school.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:56, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed they have. I must admit the Ramble Inn wasn't one I had hear of before the article was created. They tend to be well remembered in their own areas (hence me knowing about the Rose & Crown given that I was born round the corner from it) but not so much in a wider context. Keresaspa (talk) 19:20, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Well well well what a surprise
I was just watching Nolan's documentary on the Shankill Butchers. In Part 3, there is an interview with a guy who grew up with James "Tonto" Watt. They even showed a photo of him!!! He was quite nice-looking, dark-haired with a moustache. Certainly not the type you'd ever associate with being a UVF bomb maker. Just goes to show how looks can be deceiving.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:03, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
 * You're braver than I am watching that. Not because of the subject but because of presenter. Keresaspa (talk) 19:21, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Gerard Casey
Interestingly you mentioned this man the other day, I had a quick scan on his page and realised it's in bad need of attention so I've acquired a photo of him and some more details about him.DColt (talk) 20:07, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Nice work. That article was very weak but it's a lot better now. I'll see if Lost Lives has anything worth adding. Keresaspa (talk) 00:08, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, DColt you did a good job and the photo definitely improves the article.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:52, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

A quick look in the book
Here be a few more Nazis potentially for the list.

I hope you find them.Hoops gza (talk) 22:05, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Hermann Hackmann
 * Fritz Wächtler
 * Jef van de Wiele
 * From what I can see van de Wiele was only ever a member of Devlag which, whilst embracing a specifically Flemish form of Nazism, was not part of the Nazi Party itself so I would leave him out. The other two look better candidates. Wächtler should be easy enough to find given that he was a Gauleiter although Hackmann might be a bit tougher. I'll see what I can find though. Keresaspa (talk) 00:28, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Image Licence
Is your knowledge of image licence in Commons any good?I can't find the appropriate tag for the images of Jack Glass and Gerard Casey.It would be a big loss if the images were deleted.DColt (talk) 12:34, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * As far as I'm aware you can't put fair use, non-free images like those ones on Commons. Ones like those two need to be uploaded to Wikipedia itself rather than Commons as they can only be used specifically on one article on here. Somebody over there might be able to show you a quick way to transfer but it's beyond me unfortunately. I suppose alternatively you could just leave them to be deleted unchallenged over there and then upload them again on here yourself. In that case use the same tag I did here here as it was just a picture I found in a book and claimed fair use for. It's not something I've done very often so I can't tell you any more than that really and I have a suspicion they have made the process a lot more complicated recently as I abandoned my most recent attempt at something similar. If Jeanne is looking in maybe she can tell you more as she has done it more than me. Keresaspa (talk) 21:16, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for that, I just realised my mistake.I forgot to add them on the upload file section of Wikipedia.I've recently added an image on the Quinn brothers no problem at all.DColt (talk) 22:10, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Might give it another go myself in that case. Well, if I can remember what it was I wanted to upload I will! Keresaspa (talk) 22:21, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
 * DColt, don't ever add Fair Use images to Commons. That trigger-happy lot over there will delete them ASAP!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:57, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Raymond McCord
I only created this article not long ago and before you touched it was basically a shell if you will, a brief overview but thanks to your hard graft it has improved immensely.Good jobDColt (talk) 13:03, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
 * No problem. I had a stroke of luck actually as I was briefly in Glengormley on Friday and found a copy of his book on sale for 30p so that did all the work for me. I'm only about a third of the way through it so there should be more to add eventually. Mind you the basis you had created was good to begin with as you summarised the whole Mount Vernon UVF business very well. I was always wary that a Raymond McCord article could be easily become very controversial but so far we seem to have kept it nice and sensible. Keresaspa (talk) 19:58, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes I agree with everything Keresaspa said. You did a good job on the article DColt, adding relevant info but adroitly skirting around possible BLP violations. I was also wary of handling such a page but like your Bunter Graham article you handled it very well indeed. Congratulations. My imput at Wikipedia is much reduced due to the quarrelling over a GA I created on a medieval heiress and worked my arse off and now its reliability is being disputed. I have no wish to spend too much of my free time at a place where I've benn accused of "tainting the project". However, I will continue to help both of you on any Troubles-related page and in future I shall restrict myself to Troubles-related articles.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:00, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I've been in and out myself. Unlike your rough time (this is why I never bother with the whole article rating process, it's just too much like hard work) nothing in particular has happened to me, I just can't always be bothered these days. McCord is my first big burst of activity in a few weeks. Keresaspa (talk) 19:59, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

There is no doubt about it.Wikipedia and The Troubles related articles have benefited from editors who put in a lot of hard work regardless of how often they carry out edits.Thats the whole beauty of WikipediaDColt (talk) 11:09, 19 November 2012 (UTC)