User talk:Keresaspa/Archive 13

Religion Edits on Swiss Fascists
Re: reversion of edits on Oltramare, Fonjallaz, Henne, Oehler - the Dictionary of National Biography lists religious affiliation, as researched by the dictionary, in a short form at the beginning of the article. For instance, in the Oltramare article, the extract 17.4.1896 à Genève,décès 16.8.1960 à Genève, prot., de Genève. stands for his being a Protestant (prot.). http://www.hls-dhs-dss.ch/abrev.php?abrevpage=2&abrevlang=f. Homagetocatalonia (talk) 15:02, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
 * OK, fair enough. Keresaspa (talk) 18:37, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Heinz Macher
Heinz Macher's article states that he was a Nazi party member but it is without citation. Amazingly, there is no German article on Macher, one of Himmler's assistants. The Spanish article does not provide a citation either.Hoops gza (talk) 19:03, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I can only find this source that states explicitly that he was a Nazi party member but I'm not sure it would count as reliable as it seems to be just one enthusiast's personal website. It is used in the article on here though so it might suffice for the List of Nazis page. Keresaspa (talk) 23:13, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

It's up to you whether you feel this suffices.Hoops gza (talk) 20:32, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I've added him to the list using that source. If there are objections I'm sure he'll be removed and I'll keep looking for a better one regardless but for now it will do. Keresaspa (talk) 16:50, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

British Biographical Index
I have just recently checked out of my university library the British Biographical Index, 1990 edition. Full text to the most recent 2008 edition is available online (apparently in a PDF format) at a charge. I was wondering if you know whether Wikipedia already has the entries (redlinks and all) indexed somewhere on it or how I might be able to find out? If it does not have it indexed, I would like to create an index that all of Wikipedia can use so that Wikipedia editors can create articles for the redlinks. I thought you might be able to help me with getting this started since you have done similar work with the Nazi redlink list. Thanks.Hoops gza (talk) 21:42, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually I didn't make the Nazi redlinks list, I copied it. A user (not sure who) basically copied the entire Nazis category on the German Wikipedia and created the original List of Nazis page with its contents. This was nominated for deletion where User:Dr. Blofeld and me were the two who argued, successfully, to keep the article but the compromises reached in order to secure the keep decision were breaking the list up into four, referencing every entry on the list and removing the redlinks. So whilst this was ongoing I just copied a version of the original list to my own namespace and then removed all the bluelinks, making the list we have now.


 * Given that this is the English language version I would imagine the vast majority of British Biographical Index are already on here but I'm not aware of a master list being in existence. If there is then I suspect the people most likely to know would be over at WikiProject Biography and if there isn't they're also the most likely to be conducive to the idea of creating such a list. I'm pretty short on time these days so it's probably not something I could become involved in. Keresaspa (talk) 23:40, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the info and for pointing me in the right direction!Hoops gza (talk) 01:58, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Robin Jackson
Thanks for removing that quote. It was added by an editor who has since been banned from editing Troubles-reelated pages. If Jackson was not specified in the quote, it did not directly relate to him so you were right to delete it.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:14, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The "referring to another individual" bit made the alarm bells ring once I saw it so it had to go. Oh, and I know which user you mean but you and I have already been rapped on the knuckles for naming names on this talk page so I'll say no more. I have a theory there but again, not for public consumption. Keresaspa (talk) 00:23, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Karl Streibel
Please look into Karl Streibel for the list.Hoops gza (talk) 02:29, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
 * He's another of those ones where sources for his SS membership abound but none of them bother mentioning that he joined the Nazi Party. There must be a published list of NSDAP members in existence somewhere that could be used as a source for all of these sort. Keresaspa (talk) 20:21, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

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Advice
Combining your knowledge of politics and football would it be perhaps wise to include this little nugget I discovered in Lost Lives?A cousin of George Best was a member of the UDA and was killed in 1974, it didn't elaborate on how closely he was related.Just a cousin.I don't what it seem I'm trying to bash Bestie or politicise his article as I had already added his family links to the Orange Order a few months ago.Thoughts please.DColt (talk) 19:55, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I had to have a quick look as I remember mentioning that in an edit once ages ago; I finally found it in the Ned McCreery article. For my part I don't see why adding a line or two in Bestie's article would be an issue - Kenny Shiels' brother's Troubles death makes his article, for instance. Like you say it doesn't need to be a big thing but it still seems worth a passing mention to me. Whether others might agree with me is another matter but I would say either place it with the bit you've added about the Order or maybe the bit about the DUP rumour. Keresaspa (talk) 01:05, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, I will just mention it is a snippet simply because that is all it is.Saying that I am still prepared for any possible objections as it may appear I'm trying to slander him or sectarianise his article.I could also put in about the fact that UYM member Glen Branagh was a cousin of Kenneth Branagh.DColt (talk) 12:57, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with Keresaspa. It shouldn't be a problem if it's sourced. We're here to provide facts.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 13:16, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's just a case of it being a fact related to the subject of the article as far as I'm concerned. If there was a similar thing about a relative of a footballer from a Catholic background having IRA links in his family then I would say the same. I suppose objections about undue weight would be raised if a new section about the relative was started but one or two lines seems perfectly acceptable. The same with Branagh, I reckon - as long as it's sourced I can't see a problem.
 * By the way JB, do you still have that Highbeam account on the go? If so could you click the link I added to the Billy McFarland article and see if it says anything about why he was stood as brigadier. I have my own suspicions but can only access the first few lines and it would be useful if we could add more details. Cheers. Keresaspa (talk) 19:15, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Lost Lives is a treasure chest of info.A godsend for Wikipedia.With regards to "The Mexican" McFarland quite a bit has been mentioned about him in the local Ballymoney Times and of course the Sunday World.The usual stuff about drugs appears to be the reason for his downfall and I recall something about a punishment beating gone wrong in Mosside a year or two ago may have contributed.Given the fact it's from the Sunday World doubts would have to be raised!DColt (talk) 20:53, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Drugs was my one too - even Ian S. Wood mentions him as a big drug pusher. However, other than that Highbeam link, there's nothing online that can be linked to. I don't suppose you have any specific references from the Ballymoney Times as it would be a reliable source. Keresaspa (talk) 00:06, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

I wish I could but unfortunately the local paper websites barely touch the surface with detail.Most of the content only appears in the actual paper.DColt (talk) 19:54, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I checked their site and indeed it's pretty useless really. What is it about Northern Ireland and being rubbish at the internet?! Keresaspa (talk) 01:25, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Sadly, my Highbeam account has expired. It was a treasure trove of info.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:25, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Well look what I have found.A Sunday World article from November on possible reasons for The Mexican's standing down.http://www.sundayworld.com/top-stories/northern-ireland/weights-champ-wanted-revenge-for-torched-car DColt (talk) 22:12, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Ah, well done, sir! The article looks a lot better now with the explanation added. Keresaspa (talk) 01:13, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

another for the list?
I doubt that this man was a Nazi - Hans-Georg von Friedeburg. Perhaps you could sort it out?Hoops gza (talk) 11:27, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Emil Haussmann as well.Hoops gza (talk) 11:36, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Ernst Weiner - not sure, very few sources available.
 * Alwin-Broder Albrecht? - listed as an NSKK member which was a branch of the Nazi Party but its unsourced. Probably sourceable but I'll leave it for now.
 * Ernst Bergmann (philosopher) - party number is in German article. I'll look for a source.
 * Matthias Kleinheisterkamp (gives his party number in the article) - will look for a source.
 * Fritz Freitag - probable but no sources.
 * Hans Jeschonnek - another career officer so probably not.
 * Walter Krüger (SS general) - probably a member but sources are lacking.
 * Karl Steubl - same as Kruger
 * Karl Fischer von Treuenfeld - states in German Wikipedia that he wasn't a Nazi Party member but the claim isn't sourced.
 * Wilhelm Burgdorf - career officer again so once more I'm leaning towards not a member.
 * Anton Rintelen - his article was nearly all my handiwork and when researching it I never came across any sources explicitly stating that he ever joined the Nazi Party. As far as I'm aware he never actually did, despite some involvement in Nazi plotting in Austria.
 * Karl Silberbauer - no idea, but I'll check.
 * Otto Steinhäusl - no claim made in the German Wikipedia, but I'll check.
 * Siegfried Uiberreither - definitely was but I'll need to hunt out a source.
 * Hanns Albin Rauter - will need to find a source, although there seems some doubt in the German Wikipedia.
 * Hermine Braunsteiner - don't think so, but I'll check just in case.
 * Anton Malloth - not claimed as a member in the German WP so probably not.
 * Paul Bredow - maybe but I doubt a source will say so.
 * Josef Hirtreiter - claimed as a member in his article so I'll check for sources.
 * Willi Mentz - claimed as a member in German WP so I'll look for a source.
 * Max Möller (SS officer) - same as Paul Bredow.
 * Theodor van Eupen - maybe but again sources.
 * Kurt Petter - almost certainly was but we'll need a source.
 * Hans-Georg von Friedeburg is a probably not. I can find no evidence that he was and most high-ranking officers weren't members. Emil Haussmann was but I don't have an immediate source to hand. I'll look for one however. I've stuck notes beside each of the above according to what I think.
 * By the way about what you were saying on another talk page about removing articles from the category Nazis because they are added on the list of Nazis. Personally I wouldn't recommend this - lists and categories should complement each other so if a list and a category do the same thing relevant pages should be in both. You won't need category:Nazis if the article is in a subcategory of Nazis (e.g. German Nazi politicians) but in the case of Otto Weber (theologian) he isn't so it's best to leave him in the Nazis category as well as adding him to the List of Nazis. Keresaspa (talk) 02:23, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your comprehensive response. One of my new years resolutions is to retire from this negative topic, so don't expect further inquiries or help from me on this topic. By the way you may be interested in adding articles to my recently created category trees of Category:Nazis who committed suicide by location and Category:Nazis who committed suicide by method, as well as the following new categories: I know that you are more likely to find a Nazi who is missing from these categories than anyone else is. For the categories I have highlighted in bold, I have already exhausted what is currently in the parent categories in order to create each of these new categories, so don't bother looking there for more. Happy new years!Hoops gza (talk) 05:41, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Category:Austrian Nazis who committed suicide
 * Category:Executed Austrian Nazis
 * Category:Nazi collaborators who committed suicide
 * Category:Nazis convicted in absentia
 * Category:Nazis sentenced to death in absentia
 * I'll probably not be able to anything this way for a while as I'm pretty busy at the minute elsewhere. But I'll get round to it eventually, especially those ones above I said I would look for sources for. Keresaspa (talk) 19:08, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I've ticked off everybody I've added but the rest - no can do. They either weren't members or I can't find sources. Keresaspa (talk) 20:55, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Great! I shall add the rest to my bluelinks list as a future reference for you. Unless you think it would make more sense to not add them?Hoops gza (talk) 23:32, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, add them to the list. Some of the ones I missed probably were members, I just couldn't find any sources so if they're on the list we can both keep an eye out for a source in future. Keresaspa (talk) 01:11, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Hans Hingst
I had to remove Hans Hingst from the list because he is a different person from Hans Christian Hingst. I have kept the source here for future reference.
 * I've added him to User:Keresaspa/Nazi redlinks and moved the source there instead. It'll be easier to find as I archive my talk pages regularly. Keresaspa (talk) 02:26, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

By the way this Hans Hingst for which we have an article is also a likely NSDAP member, though I doubt a source can be found.Hoops gza (talk) 05:43, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

One final category to look into
I have just created the Category:Nazi lawyers and I am sure that you could add a ton of articles to this starter.Hoops gza (talk) 22:56, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Nazi serial killer
Paul Ogorzow Hoops gza (talk) 13:52, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Added. His article had the wrong source for much of its information but once I tracked down the right one (it was from the same website) it was easy to source his Nazi Party membership. Keresaspa (talk) 19:59, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

one more for the road
Fritz KlingenbergHoops gza (talk) 01:22, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
 * No, better add him to your list too as I can't find any for him. Keresaspa (talk) 01:29, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

list of nazis
You may want to change the wording of the criteria on the main page for the list of nazis, as this criteria excludes some people who were in fact members of the party. An editor has recently removed the category "Nazis" from the article Peter Kreuder for this very reason.Hoops gza (talk) 23:26, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
 * It's not up to me - I don't WP:OWN any of the lists or the categories. If you want to add Kreuder back to the Nazis category do so and argue your case with the editor who removed him. Besides the Lists of Nazis also states "...or who were members of the Nazi Party according to multiple reliable publications" so that editor is mistaken in their logic for his removal anyway. That and the fact that the list does not define the category or vice versa - both are separate and independent of each other and what are criteria for one are not automatically criteria for the other. Also I hasten to add that I didn't write nor was I involved in coming up with any part of the wording of the criteria in the list; I've no idea who did but it wasn't me. Keresaspa (talk) 01:35, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Heinz Thilo
Heinz Thilo-Hoops gza (talk) 16:19, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Friedrich Panzinger-Hoops gza (talk) 19:38, 27 January 2014 (UTC) Could you please confirm Panzinger's death date as well if possible?Hoops gza (talk) 19:46, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Both added - Thilo's source was in his article and I found Panzinger's on Google Books. As for his death date I can't find an exact sourced date - the closest I can get is an unspecified date in August 1959 from here . Personally I would go with 8 August 1959 as that's the date the German article uses and it seems more detailed and better sourced than the Spanish one (just noticing on the article history that those were the two main sources you used to write the article). Keresaspa (talk) 20:07, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Erwin Schulz - Hoops gza (talk) 23:46, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * And done. Klee to the rescue again! Keresaspa (talk) 00:50, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Lothar Fendler - Hoops gza (talk) 16:32, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Gustav Adolf Nosske - this one should be in Klee.Hoops gza (talk) 21:03, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Wilhelm Höttl - good luck on this one.Hoops gza (talk) 21:32, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Bernhard Wehner - Hoops gza (talk) 22:45, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Otto-Wilhelm Wandesleben - Hoops gza (talk) 00:25, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
 * All done. Wandesleben was the hardest of the lot but I found a weird German source in the end. Keresaspa (talk) 01:05, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Erich Roth (SS officer) - Hoops gza (talk) 01:45, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Yup Keresaspa (talk) 02:01, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Ferdinand aus der Fünten - try Klee.Hoops gza (talk) 05:49, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

I apologize for being imperative in my previous request. One more for the books: Carl-Heinz Rodenberg, looks like this one should be in Klee as well. - Hoops gza (talk) 20:13, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Hey, no problem. Most of them will be in Klee but using him is contingent on the German Wikipedia giving the page number, which it doesn't always. I'll look at these two now though aus der Fünten looks like he might be difficult for that very reason. Keresaspa (talk) 00:21, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Friedrich Mauz - should be in Klee.Hoops gza (talk) 02:18, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Friedrich Panse - Klee as well?Hoops gza (talk) 02:20, 31 January 2014 (UTC)
 * That's them done. Keresaspa (talk) 20:14, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Well that's it for me on this subject, a month later than anticipated but that's okay. We've had a good run. Thanks for your help in these matters and best of luck to you in the future.Hoops gza (talk) 21:01, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
 * You've done some great work on this so if you ever get the notion to go back to it give me a shout. Otherwise it's been great and good luck. Keresaspa (talk) 21:40, 1 February 2014 (UTC)