User talk:Kerry Raymond/Archive 9

New Page Reviewer Flag
Hi, Kerry Raymond. I've noticed that you are an AfC reviewer but don't yet have the New Page Reviewer flag. Would you please consider heading over to PERM and requesting it? (check the flag requirements HERE)

As part of a larger plan to increase cooperation between New Page Patrol and Articles for creation, we are trying to get as many of the active AfC reviewers as possible under the NPR user flag (per this discussion). Unlike the AfC request list, the NPR flag carries no obligation to review new articles, so I'm not asking you to help out at New Page Patrol if you don't want to, just to request the flag. Of course, if it is something you would be interested in, you can have a look at the NPP tutorial. Please mention that you are an active AfC reviewer in your application. Cheers and thanks for helping out at AfC, —  Insertcleverphrasehere (or here)  06:32, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

I thought
There had been serious blood thirsty battles in the past to no allow halls of residence, departments or components of Universities to not be valid as stand alone article worthy (no fixing that bad grammar) - is there something I missed about why they now should? Like scout groups or similar amazingly notable items - I thought the higher level division - the university is where it stopped. ? JarrahTree 08:31, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
 * It does not seem contrary to any documented notability policy and there are some seriously good researchers there (Nobel Prize, Australian of the Year) so it struck me as likely to be notable. But if you don't think it's notable, do nothing about it and it will die of its own accord in the AfC graveyard. Kerry (talk) 08:59, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh well I can remember long departed editors and their travails over such things some ten years ago, never really sure where the precedents to loosen up ever occurs - as to my personal sense of notability - I am but one of the chooks in this farmyard, who knows what might happen... JarrahTree 09:12, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

awnb
a look at craigs page will see that a direct request to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alex_Shih would probably hit the mark, as there was a discussion about the main user page and its fate JarrahTree 23:46, 16 April 2018 (UTC)


 * wow quicker than you can say wmau - it has been done https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Craig_Franklin_(SLQ)&action=history&offset=20180417002216 - ✅  JarrahTree 00:47, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

PC Reviewer granted
Figured you might find it useful in your editing world, happy to remove it if you don't want it. Didn't feel like spamming you with a big ol' template, so feel free to check out Reviewing pending changes and the like at your leisure. ~ Amory  (u • t • c) 12:58, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Invitation to WikiProject Portals
The Portals WikiProject has been rebooted.

You are invited to join, and participate in the effort to revitalize and improve the Portal system and all the portals in it.

There are sections on the WikiProject page dedicated to tasks (including WikiGnome tasks too), and areas on the talk page for discussing the improvement and automation of the various features of portals.

Many complaints have been lodged in the RfC to delete all portals, pointing out their various problems. They say that many portals are not maintained, or have fallen out of date, are useless, etc. Many of the !votes indicate that the editors who posted them simply don't believe in the potential of portals anymore.

It's time to change all that. Let's give them reasons to believe in portals, by revitalizing them.

The best response to a deletion nomination is to fix the page that was nominated. The further underway the effort is to improve portals by the time the RfC has run its course, the more of the reasons against portals will no longer apply. RfCs typically run 30 days. There are 19 days left in this one. Let's see how many portals we can update and improve before the RfC is closed, and beyond.

A healthy WikiProject dedicated to supporting and maintaining portals may be the strongest argument of all not to delete.

We may even surprise ourselves and exceed all expectations. Who knows what we will be able to accomplish in what may become the biggest Wikicollaboration in years.

Let's do this.

See ya at the WikiProject!

Sincerely,   &mdash; The Transhumanist   10:22, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 April 2018
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NSWSHR
How goes this? Haven't heard from you about it in a while and just thought I'd check in. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 02:52, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The generator is advancing. I've been improving its ability to work out people's name as authors of the citation provided. But I've done nothing much for the last week or so as I was in Cairns doing outreach work and taking about 900 photos of Cairns Region which I am uploading at the moment (hopefully I got a photo of every town/suburb/locality in the Cairns Region). Once I get the photos uploaded, it will be back to the generator. From my perspective, the generator is close to as good as it's going to get as most of the problems I am seeing are due to "garbage in, garbage out" due to the bizarre things that lurk in the heritage register itself. I guess the next step for me is to announce the generator on the Australian Wikipedian's Noticeboard and get some feedback there. I think we need to do that before rolling out. So not forgotten but not number 1 on my priorities at the moment but hopefully moving forward with it in a week or so (it seems to take as long to upload and describe the photos as driving around to take them in the first place!). Kerry (talk) 03:03, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Info please
Hi Kerry.

I am still learning about WP and am curious as to why you did this edit ? The few old reference links to Trove I tried seemed to work fine.

Regards. Aoziwe (talk) 12:41, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, Aoziwe! What you are seeing is my use of the IABot tool with the option to "Add archives to all non-dead references" which is a form of pre-emptive archiving. We have a major problem with Link rot with citations as government departments and other organisations frequently design their website or throw information away and so our Wikipedia citations to their former content stop working. Unfortunately once the URL stops working, it then becomes a matter of chance whether or not there is an archive copy available to use as an alternative. Pre-emptive archiving is the solution to this; it makes an archive copy of every non-dead URL in the Wikipedia article. If you notice in the diff, all of them are marked as "deadurl=no" which means the user will be taken to the normal URL in preference to the archived version. However, if the URL disappears or its content changes significantly, then we can just make it "deadurl=yes" and after that the user is taken to the archived version. So that's what's going on, just protecting the article against future linkrot. I usually run IAB over any article I have added new web citations to and often to articles that comes up on my watchlist that have had new web citations added. Just trying to protect everyone's hard work from going to waste due to link rot.


 * Now when it comes to Trove citations, things are more complicated. Trove makes a commitment to persistent URLs and it seems that IAB knows that. If you look at Hannah Maclurcan (an article I have had processed byIABot), you will see that while the first and last citation have had an archive added for them, all the Trove citations have not had an archive added. So, what's the difference between Hannah Maclurcan and Ellen Savage. The answer is that the Hannah Maclurcan articles is using Trove's persistent URLs while the Ellen Savage article is not. For example, in the Ellen Savage article, we have

Savage signed herself as Ellen in formal letters, {{cite web |url=http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/212258562? |title=Centaur Sister Praises Appeal for Nurses ...

which isn't a persistent Trove URL. It means that the person who created that citation did so manually and in doing so used the URL in the address bar of their browser (which is not a persistent URL). The persistent URL for that newspaper article is given in this citation to the same article:

{{cite news |url=http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article212258562 |title=Centaur Sister Praises Appeal for Nurses |newspaper=Brisbane Telegraph |location=Queensland, Australia |date=26 February 1948 |accessdate=10 May 2018 |page=5 (CITY FINAL) |via=National Library of Australia}}

and, when you are looking at any digitised newspaper article on Trove, you will get this citation by going to the "i"-in-the-circle icon on the left-hand tool bar. Go to [http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/212258562? this newspaper article] now, and click on that "i" in the circle and then scroll down to the bottom where you find the Wikipedia citation for that newspaper article ready to just copy and paste into the Wikipedia article and it uses the persistent URL. You see, Trove makes it trivial for Wikipedians to cite things in Trove. If you are looking at books, journals, pictures etc in Trove, you will get a button called "Cite this" which does the same thing as the "i"-in-the-circle icon for the newspapers (the difference was the need for a more compact solution for the newspapers). If you are not using it, start using it as it is both quicker than doing the citation manually and it uses the persistent URL (double win!). Kerry (talk) 06:02, 10 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Many thanks Kerry!  Not sure how I missed that.  Is it documented somewhere obvious?  It was me who did the initial bulk of the work for Ellen Savage and yes manually creating the references is a bit painful.  Not sure if I will back track all my other Trove references and fix them but will certainly be using the circle i from now on!


 * Regards. Aoziwe (talk) 12:38, 10 May 2018 (UTC)


 * {{ping|Aoziwe}} For a long time it wasn't in any of their public documentation but, after some nagging from me, it is now sort-of documented here but whether that is "obvious" is a matter of opinion and you will note that they describe the URL provided in the variously formatted citation as "recommended" but don't come right out and say it's recommended because it is persistent. But do enjoy the pre-formatted citations -- they save a lot of work when writing articles! Kerry (talk) 21:01, 10 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Thanks Kerry. So would you recommend I run IABot over every article I create or come across that would benefit from it?  Aoziwe (talk) 11:50, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, my answer would be yes. There is talk at the moment of perhaps doing automatic archiving of any URL as they are added to articles but that hasn't happened yet. Kerry (talk) 08:46, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Help with heading
Hi Kerry. A fellow Wikipedian has prepared a draft entry about The Women's Library in Newtown, Sydney. I am hoping you can help with some ideas for its heading. Unfortunately, The Women's Library redirects to Women's Library which is about The Women's Library @ LSE. I appreciate that throughout the entry, including the lede and infobox, the Australian Library can be referred to by its actual name, The Women's Library. It's just the title that needs to be sorted out. Your suggestions would be appreciated.--Oronsay (talk) 04:09, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Call it The Women’s Library, Sydney. For bonus points, add a hatnote on the other one using Template:redirects to point the reader to the Sydney one if they find themselves at the LSE one; happy to help with this step of it’s not clear what to do. Note the name of any article can be changed later using Move so it’s not cast in concrete if you didn’t pick a good name to start with. Kerry (talk) 13:51, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Kerry: Many thanks! I like your suggestion for the heading and have created red links accordingly. Just need to convince the author of the entry! I'd forgotten about hatnotes, and will make sure they are used appropriately. Again, thanks.--Oronsay (talk) 20:03, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Kerry, the article is now up! Its author accepted your advice about the title, The Women's Library, Sydney. Thank you again!

Merger discussion for List of Masonic buildings in the United States
An article that you have been involved in editing&mdash;List of Masonic buildings in the United States &mdash;has been proposed for merging with another article. If you are interested, please participate in the merger discussion. Thank you. Doncram (talk) 16:26, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi Kerry Redmond, you were actually contributing to the world-wide List of Masonic buildings back in 2016, not the U.S. sub-list, but I have opened the formal merger proposal about the U.S. sub-list, and it should apply also to the world-wide list. Your participation would be appreciated. --Doncram (talk) 16:27, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Event coordinator
Hi, the English Wikipedia recently created a new user permission for editors involved in off-wiki outreach work, event coordinator. This new permission allows users to mark accounts for confirmed for up to 10 days, and also allows them to create accounts for events without rate limits without some of the features of the account creator right that aren't used at edit-a-thons and other events. I have added the event coordinator permission to your account and removed the account creator permission, as you appear to have been using it mainly for outreach work.This should have no noticeable impact on your ability to create accounts, and will give you the extra ability to temporarily confirm accounts if you need to. For more information, you can see the information page on the right, or you can ask me if you have any questions. TonyBallioni (talk) 18:33, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 24 May 2018
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Thank you very much
The RfC discussion to eliminate portals was closed May 12, with the statement "There exists a strong consensus against deleting or even deprecating portals at this time." This was made possible because you and others came to the rescue. Thank you for speaking up.

By the way, the current issue of the Signpost features an article with interviews about the RfC and the Portals WikiProject.

I'd also like to let you know that the Portals WikiProject is working hard to make sure your support of portals was not in vain. Toward that end, we have been working diligently to innovate portals, while building, updating, upgrading, and maintaining them. The project has grown to 80 members so far, and has become a beehive of activity.

Our two main goals at this time are to automate portals (in terms of refreshing, rotating, and selecting content), and to develop a one-page model in order to make obsolete and eliminate most of the 150,000 subpages from the portal namespace by migrating their functions to the portal base pages, using technologies such as selective transclusion. Please feel free to join in on any of the many threads of development at the WikiProject's talk page, or just stop by to see how we are doing. If you have any questions about portals or portal development, that is the best place to ask them.

If you would like to keep abreast of developments on portals, keep in mind that the project's members receive updates on their talk pages. The updates are also posted here, for your convenience.

Again, we can't thank you enough for your support of portals, and we hope to make you proud of your decision. Sincerely,  &mdash; The Transhumanist   11:04, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

P.S.: if you reply to this message, please ping me. Thank you. -TT

Proposed deletion of Chinese Graves and Burner at Nyngan Cemetery
Hello, Kerry Raymond. I wanted to let you know that I’m proposing an article that you started, Chinese Graves and Burner at Nyngan Cemetery, for deletion because I don't think it meets our criteria for inclusion. If you don't want the article deleted:


 * 1) [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&action=edit edit the page]
 * 2) remove the text that looks like this:
 * 3) save the page

Also, be sure to explain why you think the article should be kept in your edit summary or on the article's talk page. If you don't do so, it may be deleted later anyway.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions.

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:35, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

I have unreviewed a page you curated
Hi, I'm Graeme Bartlett. I wanted to let you know that I saw the page you reviewed, Chinese Graves and Burner at Nyngan Cemetery, and have un-reviewed it again. If you have any questions, please ask them on my talk page. Thank you.

Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:30, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The reason is that CC-BY-4.0 is not compatible with Wikipedia. You are either going to have to rewrite this in your own words so that you can release it under the 3.0 license or it can be deleted. In the mean-time I will place a prod on the page, so that if nothing happens it will disappear. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:32, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * While there is an issue with CC-BY-SA-4.0 (for reasons I don't fully understand), the source material in question here (the NSW State Heritage Register) is CC-BY-4.0 which is compatible if appropriately attributed (the attribution appears in the References section of the article). See FAQ/Copyright for the list of compatible and incompatible CC licenses. Kerry (talk) 23:38, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, you appear to be right, so the page can stay. Ignore the prod below. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:06, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

News from Craig Franklin's funeral
I came across your statement here. I think that this would be good to share on Wikimedia-l, if you are willing to do so. Thanks, --Pine✉ 20:29, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not a subscriber to that list, so I suspect I cannot post to it. However, I give permisssion for you to circulate it if you think it appropriate. I know Craig was much respected within our community. Kerry (talk) 22:46, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you. --Pine✉ 18:23, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Tasmania
Is there something you want to know? JarrahTree 00:06, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 June 2018
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A goat for you!
Hi and cheers for the edit response. I misunderstood that each place with a link had to be linked to another wiki page. Read your wiki quality section, "for someone to take the time to edit, to delete would offend the contributor and make them less likely to contribute in future." So would offending them with the wrong choice in words. Quite ok with them being deleted based on not being linked to a wiki page. Self-promotion? Regards

PetalsM (talk) 09:47, 18 July 2018 (UTC) 

Comments at the beginning of articles about Australia
Hi. I asked The Drover's Wife why there were comments on the top of some of the articles he created and he told me that it was your doing.

Can/should I remove the comments when I come across an article with them?

No need for you to hurry about this, the articles aren't going to run away. Enjoy your vacation.

Aisteco (talk) 15:21, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * These are machine-generated articles. The comment at the top reveals what input they were generated from (it’s much easier for a machine to read the comment at the top than it is to dig into the article to find the attribution statement). Kerry (talk) 10:36, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Meetups #87, #88, #89, #90
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 17:33, 19 July 2018 (UTC) via MassMessaging

The Signpost: 31 July 2018
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Urgent Help
A User named Kashmiri is constantly following all my edits and reverting it. I kindly request you to suggest me some solution to get out this trap if possible.Veganvegan (talk) 15:50, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Would you be interested in writing what is IMO a badly-needed article? I've already asked three Aussie editors, across three states, who all felt it too close to home to write it up. (I'm a Pom. It doesn't feel right for me even to attempt to write the article.) Narky Blert (talk) 22:16, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, it's not exactly local for me either being 1700 km away (roughly the distance from the UK to Hungary!). However, I did my best given my total lack of knowledge of it (you might as well have written it for all I knew about it). Take a look, feel free to improve it! Kerry (talk) 00:24, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Want to help?
I wonder if you might be interested in User:JKlein (WMF)'s plan at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T201550 from the POV of someone who teaches people how to use the visual editor. Would you like to help with the evaluation process, or could you suggest someone who might be interested? (Please ping me so I don't miss your reply.) Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:36, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, I am interested. I think I can bring two POVs to the task. One as a trainer as you mention, but I think I also fit the "community members who are superusers and edit with Visual Editor" category. I see I am still in the top 500 and probably one of the few that uses Visual Editor for my content contributions on a regular basis, resorting to source editor primarily for heavy-duty template work (not currently a VE strength). Kerry (talk) 21:30, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll tell Jess.  I'm not sure what the exact timeline is, but I think she's still hoping to get this underway this month.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 16:45, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

who do you know?
Do you know a good template tweaker? that Australian template item needs to be fixed imho JarrahTree 04:41, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Since they have gone around super-protecting the popular templates, I can't say for certain who has the ability to edit such templates. I've been locked out of editing templates that I've created and maintained up until that time. I assume you are talking about Template:WikiProject Australia? If so, it was fixed fairly quickly when I reported the previous problem; I presume this new bug is an unintended consequence of that fix and that it will be sorted out sooner or later (probably sooner). Kerry (talk) 06:06, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
 * apology - our tweaker of the west got in very soon after the comment - he fixed it.JarrahTree 09:50, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Sherwood Arboretum
Hi Kerry

The article about the Sherwood Arboretum which you started in 2014 has the following category - 'Category:Protected areas established in 1925'. I have checked both the relevant Queensland Government website and the CAPAD 2016 summary for Queensland and cannot find any mention of a protected area status. Do you know if the arboreteum had protected area status under previous state legislation? If not, I will remove the above category.

Please reply here if you wish to reply.

Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 10:34, 19 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Interesting question. That category was added in this edit so I didn't add it. My first reaction was "no, it's not a protected area", but having thought about it, I think it's a question of the semantics of "protected area". Your searches above are for national parks, conservation areas etc which are protected for their natural qualities, which matches the way I think we use that term here in Australia. However protected area says "Protected areas or conservation areas are locations which receive protection because of their recognized natural, ecological or cultural values" and heritage register defines a heritage register as "inventories of cultural properties". Being listed on the Queensland Heritage Register gives legal protection to the Sherwood Arboretum and that protection is defined by a well-defined published boundary (i.e. an area). So ... put all those definitions together and Sherwood Arboretum is indeed protected area (and it was established in 1925). So given the definitions used on Wikipedia, I think the categorisation is correct. Kerry (talk) 14:24, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Russell Island
Jingeri,

You undid my edits on Russell Island, I've gone and completely reworded and added extra sources, can you tell me if it's right now? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Island_(Moreton_Bay)#Proposed_name_change

Thank you

Nyanyah BlackfullaLinguist (talk) 04:55, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
 * , I haven't undone any of your edits on Russell Island (Moreton Bay) so I am guessing you were not logged in at the time (which is why I didn't write on your User Talk page at the time). My issue isn't that the island might be renamed Canaipa, that's well-sourced. But it's a question of which language the name Canaipa comes from and the sources to support that. Now, I don't pretend to have any expertise in Indigeneous languages and how they relate to one another, so I am looking to see the sources be explicit. If we work through the current article's sources, it's still far from clear to me how there is support for your claim that Canaipa is a Yugambeh word. Let's look at the sources (the numbers relate to the current version of the article)

The Quandamooka people articles talks about their language but doesn't mention it being related to Yugambeh or Bundjalung languages. The Yugambeh people article doesn't mention the islands as part of their traditional lands but says the Quandamooka people were to their east. Similarly Yugambeh language doesn't mention the islands. So I think the best source we have is [14] (and it's a little tentative) and that isn't making a connection to the Yugambeh language/people which is the claim you are making "The name Canaipa was collected from Yugambeh people". From what you know, did the Quandamooka people use the name Canaipa for Russell Island? If so, is it not then part of their language, which might well be a name that other Indigenous people in neighbouring areas also used to describe the island having learned it from the Quandamooka people? Kerry (talk) 09:50, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
 * [13] "The early settlement": Although the citation does not include the URL for the full text, I managed to locate it and it says Kanaipa is the indigenous name, but no language is mentioned. This citation does not appear to support the claim in the text it is immediately associated with "The name Canaipa was collected from Yugambeh people"
 * [14] "Proposal ...": talks about the Quandamooka people and says the name "is *reportedly* derived from the Aboriginal word, Bundjalung language, Ngaraangbal dialect, Pimpama clan" [my emphasis]
 * [15] Yagambeh Language site, says Canaipa is a "ganaybah" language word (and I cannot find information on what "ganaybah" is)
 * [16] doesn't name the language, but mentions the Quandamooka people
 * [17] isn't available online but the meta-data says "Yugambeh is the name of the language spoken by Aboriginal family groups within the area roughly bordered by the Logan and Tweed rivers" with no mention of the islands.
 * [18] mentions the Quandamoooka people but no mention of the language.

Requesting your thoughts about editathon metrics
Hi Kerry. I really appreciated your thoughtful comments on the Event Tool talk page. I've posted a new list of questions there, asking event organizers what you need in terms of metrics, since these are likely to be a focus for this project.

It would be a big help if you could offer some thoughts at your nearest opportunity. Thanks so much for your help! JMatazzoni (WMF) (talk) 21:31, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Be careful what you wish for! :-) Kerry (talk) 02:54, 24 August 2018 (UTC)


 * That was a very salient warning, I'll need a couple of stiff drinks just to read that now... JarrahTree 04:44, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Murders of Margaret and Seana Tapp
Hi. Would you be interested and or able to add photographs of Margaret and Seana Tapp to their article (Murders of Margaret and Seana Tapp)? Please i hope you can. Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 11:34, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure anyone will be able to help you with this request. Given the time frame, any photos of them in the media will still be in copyright. Unless someone knows of a family member or friend who might donate a photo they have taken, I doubt a suitably licensed image will be found. Kerry (talk) 21:51, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 30 August 2018
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not sure
what has happened at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:TWGHistory - as to why two welcomes are necessary... for the public record and a btw - I am always highly suspicious of any editor who claims to have some sort of official username - some notoriously difficult editors have it as their badge to have such - and even if its a personal mission to be the 'custodian' of certain knowledge - the even more fickle WP:OWN comes to mind. Anyways trust you are suitably recovered from your 'stop off' in Perth and the preceding time elsewhere... JarrahTree 07:39, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I am not sure I have to justify welcoming someone (not sure there is a policy limiting the number of times that someone can be welcomed) but since you ask. Mine was a WikiProject Australia welcome which points them at that noticeboard. Also as you suggest they may be affiliated with one of the Toowong history groups, organisations whose events I sometimes attend, so I thought I ought to reach out as I already may be known to them, which may be useful to if they want to ask for help. Kerry (talk) 08:00, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 * actually in the case of some editors - multiple welcomes from certain angles are well worth it - and like so much to do with talk pages and user pages - there are so few real guidelines. It is good to know that you have a personal connection with the place as well - that goes to my long held thought that when the cohort had a larger involvement - to have created the possibility of regional correspondents of a voluntary sort who might be located in places not otherwise with actual editing communities as such - cairns, broome and so  outon...

I wasnt so much asking you to have to justify your inclusion even though it reads that way - it was much more a half thought and thinking that we really should encourage our template wizards to actually develop state specific sub welcomes in my thinking - it would be so much more positive to the regional variants in things... - so despite the possibly challenging query it was sitting on the dark horse of doubt about our state capital tendencies - the dream is for mount isa or broken hill or kalgoorlie to have editor(s) willing to identify their location and interests... JarrahTree 10:51, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

your assistance
I was going to drop a word bomb -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Queensland_Museum - but suspect your involvement would be more productive - I was going to go for username and COI and whatever else - any assistance in the short term would be much appreciated. Thank you in advance. JarrahTree 00:52, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Small problem this is a generic problem - so many Australian institutions have dived into editing into articles as if there is no tommorrow, and as we have the name aobut to be blocked due to common sense watching of such items - there is the problem of trying to find out who in what department is doing that - and consequentially the possibility of your being able to counsel the person/s - gets lost before you start. JarrahTree 01:04, 18 September 2018 (UTC)


 * sigh - gone - the great thing about attempts at outreach and then the rules is like trying to speed to save someones life in a car - you can get booked.. The fact they had been editing for a year unchecked says it all JarrahTree 04:50, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

1912 Queensland state election) listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect 1912 Queensland state election). Since you had some involvement with the 1912 Queensland state election) redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Thryduulf (talk) 09:05, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Designations
Any chance you could add the ACT and NT Heritage Registers to the designation template? I daren't mess with these things. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 13:18, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I daren't either. I have always just followed the instructions at Template:Designation/doc so feel free to make this a learning experience for yourself!

I don't see a problem with getting the NT HR, but at this point in time I cannot find any evidence that an ACT HR exists which is something of a barrier for the requirement to first create an article about the heritage register! Logically one might expect an ACT HR should exist. There is of course a truckload of heritage sites in the ACT on the Commonwealth Heritage List, many of which are Commonwealth buildings so they obviously belong on the Commonwealth Heritage List. So the question is whether there is any non-Commonwealth heritage in ACT? One might think there would be a church, a homestead, or something that isn't a Commonwealth structure that could be separately listed on an ACT HR. But if you look at this blurb about the CHL, notice the words " heritage on Commonwealth Land" because I think that's the issue. When the ACT was created, they resumed a lot of the land so they weren't impeded in building the national capital and certainly all the folk I know who live in Canberra are on 99-year leases from the Commonwealth for their house block. Certainly this ACT homestead on the CHL says "The family continued to live at "Gungahleen" until 1915, when the property was resumed by the Commonwealth following the establishment of the Federal Capital". So I am wondering if everything in the ACT is Commonwealth land and therefore, even if on a lease, still puts it within the scope of the CHL eliminating any need for a separate ACT HR. Reading what the National Archives says about land in the ACT makes clear that it was the orginal intention to have all land in the ACT owned by the Commonwealth and then released under a leasehold arrangement for private purposes, but it also makes clear this didn't fully happen when the ACT was established. In 1970 Cabinet decided to acquire all remaining freehold land over the next 3 years, but it doesn't clearly state whether this actually occured. The next paras talk about the appropriateness of the leasehold arrangements but fail to say outright that all land in the ACT is Commonwealth land. So, although it needs confirmation, I think that from the 1970s all ACT land is ownowned by the Commonwealth and hence anything that meets the criteria can go onto the Commonwealth Heritage List and this is why I cannot find a separate ACT HR. Since the Dept of Environment people were very helpful with the coords, I shall see if they can confirm this theory. I also need to ask them about their CC-BY images (an awful lot of them say "Seek permission before using" which seems odd in the presence of a CC-BY license, so I need to clarify the intention here, hoping it is a carry-over from before they CC-BY-licensed their whole website and can now be ignored). Kerry (talk) 00:51, 22 September 2018 (UTC)


 * The ACT Heritage Register certainly does exist! Not sure why it wasn't coming up in your searches. And there's plenty of heritage there that isn't on the CHL because it's not regarded as Commonwealth owned. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 04:55, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, that solves that mystery in my life! Goodness knows why I never found it when I was compiling the list for Wiki Loves Monuments. OK, include it in the new designations! I see it is divided into places and moveable objects, and a lot of the entries have a "removed" status. Sadly it's all copyright. Kerry (talk) 05:43, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Redirects in VE
Hi Kerry,

THought I might ask you first, is it possible to create redirects in the Virtual Editor? Or is it in the "template heavy" category, and have to switch editors? Thanks! Nat965 (talk) 19:39, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes you can do it in the Visual Editor. On the VE toolbar, look over to the right for the 3 horizontal bar icon and choose Page Settings from that menu and you will get a box labeled “redirect” where you add the article to be redirected to. 21:39, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Oh my, how I skipped over the page settings option, reminder to put my glasses on! Thanks a bunch. Nat965 (talk) 08:22, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 1 October 2018
 * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:44, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Results from global Wikimedia survey 2018 are published
Hello! A few months ago the Wikimedia Foundation invited you to take a survey about your experiences on Wikipedia. You signed up to receive the results. The report is now published on Meta-Wiki! We asked contributors 170 questions across many different topics like diversity, harassment, paid editing, Wikimedia events and many others.

Read the report or watch the presentation, which is available only in English. Add your thoughts and comments to the report talk page. Feel free to share the report on Wikipedia/Wikimedia or on your favorite social media. Thanks!

-- EGalvez (WMF) 19:25, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Growth team updates #2
Welcome to the second newsletter for the new Growth team!

The Growth Team's objective is to work on software changes that help retain new contributors in mid-size Wikimedia projects.

Our plan for the next quarter is ready

After consulting with many communities on the best ways to increase retention, we will focus during the next 3 months on these projects:


 * Understanding first day: to see what new editors do right after creating their accounts. We will be careful with user privacy, and we hope to share initial results in December.
 * Personalized first day: this idea will also help us learn a lot about new editors by adding some optional questions to the new editor’s registration process. We hope to share initial results in December.
 * Focus on help desk: we plan to invite or redirect people to the local help desks where they can ask questions to help them make their first edits. We hope to have an initial experiment running in December.

You can read about the details of this plan on our team page.

How did we get to this plan?

We have set up our plan based on the 8 ideas we were considering. You can read about our analysis in our team updates, and detailed discussion on each idea.

We are looking for volunteers

Do you want to participate to our experiments? We are looking for new communities to work with us (especially a new mid-size wiki), and people to become ambassadors to help us to communicate with the different communities. Discover how you can involve yourself or your community.

Learn more about us

You can visit our team page to find out why our team was formed and how we are thinking about new editors, and our project page for detailed updates on the projects we'll work on.

'' Growth team's newsletter prepared by the Growth team and posted by bot, 13:31, 4 October 2018 (UTC) • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. ''

Why did you delete my Brisbane opening?
My version was far superior as an opening for Brisbane than the current one, mine was also much longer. Why did you delete it?--Caltraser55 (talk) 05:43, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Please see talk. You might have liked it better, but it does run foul of some of our policies. Kerry (talk) 05:55, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

Outdated Image
Kerry thank you for your feedback on my previous edits. The image on the page is outdated, and I have recent image provided by the organisation (HOTA) although I don't own the copyright. Do you have any advice? Thank you.
 * Sigh, it's not easy. There are two alternatives. 1. You upload the file to Commons, saying accurately where the file comes from and that it is licensed as .... (CC-BY-4.0 would be my recommendation). You then go to the copyright holder and give them the file name on Commons and tell them they should release it CC-BY-4.0. The copyright owner then has to give consent to this, which is done by the copyright holder (or appropriate staff member if an organisation is the copryight holder) going to here and "clicking on Use The Interactive Release Generator" (and filling in the form and inserting the name of the Commons file at the right spot) and then it gets emailed to permissions-commons@wikimedia.org - from my own experience, most copyright holders will now say "oh, it all sounds too hard, I'll do it next week/month/..." and it never happens. Likelihood of success is generally low in my experience. 2. You go there and take a photo of the place yourself. Then it's your copyright and you can upload it in the normal way releasing it under the appropriate licence in the usual way. Likelihood of success is high so long as you live locally. Indeed, the best strategy would be to pursue both concurrently. Upload your own while you wait to see if they will provide you with a better one under a suitable licence. Kerry (talk) 09:02, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you Kerry! That's really helpful.

Dab key
Hi Kerry. I'm not at all happy with the disambiguator "Matron" for the article I've just started, for whom an adb article and redlink to a memorial exist. Can you suggest a less ambiguous term ? Doug butler (talk) 23:37, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, there are some alternative forms mentioned in Matron like nursing superintendent, chief nurse, head nurse that might be more what you are looking for. Kerry (talk) 23:43, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

RE: William Lane
Hi Kerry, sorry about the lack of sources on the William Lane page. My edits were supposed to be quick while I had the info (as I was quite busy the last few days) and the citations were to be added later. I know that's not how you guys do it around here but I definitely had the intention to add it. You can see I added a notice on the top about it. Even then a lot of substantial information was there before I got there, I simply summarised what was there and put it in the opening paragraphs, as well as added a few biographical details. It appears a lot of what's already there was retrieved from the Australian Dictionary of Biography website and other sources which I'll certainly get to putting in as citations. 220.245.52.83 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 02:25, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
 * No worries. I know that the article was lacking in citations before your edits, but since you were active and seemed to know a lot about Lane, I figured you probably did have some sources. And as you are editing anonymously, it is hard for me to judge how genuinely new you are to Wikipedia and what you do or don't already know. I would strongly encourage you to create a user account as it is much easier to collaborate that way, but of course it is your choice. If I can be of help, don't hesitate to ask. While I am not an expert on Lane, I do find him a fascinating character. You might be interested to read about Byrnestown, a rural locality in the North Burnett Region in Queensland, whose history is linked to the Qld Govt concerns about the popular support Lane was attracting for his New Australia project. That was a bit of Queensland's history that came as a complete surprise to me. Kerry (talk) 11:46, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

How does one propose a possible Queensland Wikipedian project for 2019 International Year for Indigenous Languages?
Hello Kerry ..I was once a more active editor essentially initiated into editing by Mattinbgn whom I see, seems to have 'retired' and may no longer be available to obtain advice and/or assistance .. where:


 * I am a north queensland based anthropologist who has recently been doing work on original Aboriginal place names (in local Aboriginal languages) as often recorded by early ethnologists, linguists, and others .. see for instance Djungan named Lake Koongarra


 * I note next year is the United Nations International Year for Indigenous Languages .. see for instance Queensland State Library INTERNATIONAL YEAR OF INDIGENOUS LANGUAGES 2019


 * I would be keen to become very active and even share ethnologist and linguists references and more .. to create articles for the likes of Lake Koongarra, and other places on the Queensland place names register holding locally indigenous language names and stories .. also allocating the names to the relevant indigenous languages .. a possible Queensland project for the United Nations International Year for Indigenous Languages

I am writing now, on your talk page, as I have not been active for some time and find myself:
 * - not knowing who or where to go to ask how one might go about seeking interest in and proposing a possible UN Year of Indigenous Languages project of the above kind as a possible Wikipedia Queensland project?
 * - also not knowing, should there be some interest in a project of this kind, if and how one might go about publicizing and letting the likes of the Queensland State Library and others including the Department and others responsible for the Queensland place names register know we might be undertaking such a project

Sincerely hoping, in Mattinbgn retirement .. advise, assist, encourage, and/or at least point me and/or refer this request in useful/right direction .. please? Bruceanthro (talk) 01:16, 10 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Page lurker: - rather than just Queensland - there is all a possibility that the whole of australia to be involved - the states and territories.  Ideally at the Australian noticeboard and the indigenous project noticeboard.

Cannot load the full argument/etc about the needs for a full Australian version of this idea at this moment, but can followup soon. JarrahTree 01:28, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
 * thanks JarrahTree. please keep me posted or let me know what I might do/ should do about around this, for the Australian noticeboard? Bruceanthro (talk) 21:48, 11 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi! I have seen you on-wiki over the years so welcome back from your recent hiatus. In some ways I don't know how to answer your question. Really anyone can start a project any time they like (I do!). Obviously you might want to promote it in the hope of attracting others, but at the end of the day, if you are happy to plug away with it on your own, then that's all it needs. I guess the other reason to talk about it widely is if there are likely to be issues that the Australian (or wider) community might need to be comfortable with. I know one of the issues with Indigenous history and perhaps also for Indigenous language is the Wikipedia desire for verification in reliable sources and a reluctance to use oral sources; I don't know if you forsee this as an issue for your project, if so we would need to canvass the community views about this. I would suggest doing any discussion/promotion of this project at Australian Wikipedians' notice board in the first instance, as the sub-project Queensland does not have an active talk page. I am aware of some other contributors who add Indigenous material who we might approach explicitly. I regularly meet with State Library of Queensland and support their Wikipedia-related activities, so talking to them is no problem. They have a strong commitment to the Indigeneous Knowledge Centres (including one at SLQ) so I think they would give us their moral support if not more. Similarly I have had some dealings with DNRM folks who are aware I use the Place Names and their Qld Globe when writing for Wikipedia -- they were the Dept in the Queensland Government who were strong champions of CC-BY licensing from the outset, so we can probably get a meeting with them. Perhaps we want to talk with the Department of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Partnerships or other areas with QG with indigenous interests; I don't have any contacts there but that doesn't mean we can't cold call or get an introduction through someone else (e.g. SLQ). Happy to talk further about this. I will send my phone contact details via the email on your User page as it might be faster to talk than type. Kerry (talk) 12:34, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Gee Kerry (talk) 12:34, 10 October 2018 (UTC), this is a wonderfully encouraging and useful response plus offer to assist, where I see this morning I have received your email and phone contact details and will be contacting you! Sincerely Bruceanthro (talk) 22:19, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

far too big and...
West Kimberley - is really in need of splitting - the bibliography alone could be a separate article, and I dont know why or how encyclopedia articles deserve to carry the vast heritage assessment weasel word worm farms - there is far too much effusiveness that is not encyclopediac.

That said, well done, lesser mortals would not have done something like that. Its hard to express the ambiguity adequately to commend you highly on the effort, but at the same time wonder how the hell the rest of the articles that already exist inter-weave with the larger article, and which really deserves to have parralel information carried at the same time. It is all a bit hard to take it in from one review.

It is very very difficult to know how to appraise something that is bigger than the extant articles about the kimberley, and also knowing how much effort it would have taken to create it. In the view of the reader, I think that there is a need to question your inclusion of heritage assessment in articles, as to whether they belong in encyclopedia articles - in reports fine, but...   Also there is a very limited practice that has not been picked up in the Australian project - of having separate bibliographic articles, this article alone calls out for the practice to be started.

One thing that the wa project has been very lucky, to date, is that we have been very careful as a project to not go over-size with anything. Newspapers do not exist in one big list, they have been collected into regional articles. Until now most phenomenon that exist around the state have been formulated into regional articles, and kept to reasonable sizes. JarrahTree 14:51, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's a monster, but remember WP:NOTPAPER! Indeed, I had wondered if you might take a look at it. As you say, it probably intersects with some other articles and could use a few as well as just plain wikilinking. Because I don't normally work on WA articles, my knowledge of what other articles are out there is poor so I have no sense of potential interweaving. I note that it was entirely generated without any wikifying as I have yet to build a WA wikifer. I think the moral to that story is that I should not have attempted it until I had built the wikifier. ("Never send a man to do a machine's job" - The Matrix). I don't see a need to break the article up particularly. The language is a bit lush at times (I've removed a bit of the lushness as I went along). However, having now had to read the content, I actually know a lot more about West Kimberley than I did before (I've been to Broome but not much else up that way), so I feel quite motivated to go back and see more of it. It does seem pretty special in terms of fauna, flora, geology, and culture. My goal at the moment is to ensure all the Australian National Heritage List entries have an article. There's 3 more redlinks in the Australian National Heritage List but I need to double-check to see that there is nothing missing from that page. I must say Rangasyd and The Drover's Wife are working very hard on the NSW SHR at the moment (about 2/3rd done now). Kerry (talk) 15:01, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Re the heritage assessment. Such content generally addresses the question of "why it matters". I do prune a lot of duplicate material from heritage assessments, also stuff that is administrative rather than about the merits of the topics. And I put that section last in the article quite deliberately (it appears first in the heritage registers themselves as a general rule). Kerry (talk) 15:06, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * In most cases they are crap, repetitive and non encylopediac. In this case they are full of more weasel stuff.
 * Kerry it is very commendable to get the ANH list up - I would never want to discourage you on that...
 * Bit lush? sorry - there is plainly non encyclopediac language all the way through, this is not wikivoyage. So it is in very contradictory paradoxical one dimensional AGF that I thank you for your enriching the western australian project, but hell...
 * I personally see a very good precedent to separate the bibliography and possibly parts of the article - as it basically looks like a parallel universe to what exists at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Kimberley_(Western_Australia)
 * probably intersects is a real under-statement - the big problem now is to work out what the hell exists in the article - and what in other articles or the category just mentioned. That can be a real slog, and we are unlikely to have anyone prepared to do anything (or with the appropriate skill sets of some of the information) to glean the differentials between existing material and the article.
 * Once again a genuine thanks, but also hey thanks for the challenge to the wa project it now presents...


 * And please dont sweat on my response, (it is meant in honest good faith) I am sure the new article will attract appropriate editors to come and gnaw away at the weasel and non encyclopediac elements with clearer view than either of us can at this time of night. What set me off was the trully rex mossop beginning of the article - tautological to a t! JarrahTree 15:47, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

JarrahTree 15:19, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * The lushness was mainly at the start and I have rewritten it to be less lush. There are some "spectacular landscapes" and other phrases like that sprinkled through it, but I don't see the problem with that as we are talking about one of 100 places that, as a nation, we have decided to give the highest level of protection, through an thorough assessment against a set of well-defined criteria, and it's all appropritely cited. We're not quoting the holiday brochure here. Kerry (talk) 15:54, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * it sure smells like one in parts - anyways signing off for the night, cheers and thanks for the interaction, I am sure it will turn out well in the end

JarrahTree 16:00, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Hyne & Sonn
Hello Kerry Raymond,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Hyne & Sonn for deletion in response to your request.

If you didn't intend to make such a request and don't want the article to be deleted, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&action=edit edit the page] and remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions.

Pkbwcgs (talk) 09:01, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

You deleted entire section of Brisbane economy
You just deleted the entire section of the Brisbane economy in the opening introduction with your clause being that it is uncited content, with content such as "The main airport serving the city is Brisbane Airport", I don't know how something like that would even need a citation, I mean sure there are other airports in the city, but I don't think its a stretch to say its the main airport.
 * Take it to Talk:Brisbane. Kerry (talk) 05:35, 25 October 2018 (UTC)