User talk:Kew Gardens 613/List of unopened subway entrances

Crosstown Line
Where did you get access to the actual document for this? Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 18:58, 11 April 2023 (UTC)


 * Same for docs like this. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 18:58, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * You need a NYPL account and card to reserve the items and view them in person. I’ll see what I can do to share pictures; the documents reveal many stairs were slabbed over from day one and likely never opened at all (Willoughby, Broome/Essex, Rivington/Essex, Henry/Rutgers, etc)
 * There’s much more I need to unpack; I’ve sent a doc listing which items I’ve browsed to your email. QueensBlvdTransitway (talk) 19:56, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much. Pictures would be amazing, and I cannot thank you enough for doing this. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 20:28, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Why did you remove "provision at closed mezzanine area to south side of Houston Street at Houston Street Playground"? What is going on with the unfinished east mezzanine and the two stairways there? You didn't happen to scan F-528, right? You cite F-565 for Second Avenue, but I don't see scans of it-and that is for East Broadway. I didn't see where it shows that the eastern mezzanine for Second Avenue at Second Avenue was barricaded at the time of the station's opening. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 20:25, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, shouldn’t have deleted that stair to the playground area. I must have mis-cited something. I think that’s how F-565 got there. Also didn’t scan F-528. It’s been a long week.
 * I remarked that it’s closed when the station opened because that’s in the crosstown line document. It’s an oddly placed group of drawings at the end of the Route 107 contract drawings. It has everything you need to know about which stairs were closed at the time of opening, including a bonus map of the Essex BMT stairs. QueensBlvdTransitway (talk) 20:36, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I have been looking at things in order, so I didn't see those yet. I can't thank you enough for doing this. I noticed two pairs of "future stairway"s at Clinton-Washington mezzanine to the platform, which is peculiar, and one pair at Classon, which has a very baffling station layout Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 21:45, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * So many stations are poorly designed. We will have unnecessarily wide full mezzanines, but will put in switchback stairs with no sightlines/that are around corners/and are out of the way. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 21:52, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Absolutely. What strikes me as odd is how few stairs are off the platforms at Steinway St and how poorly configured the mezzanines are, despite it being a bustling commercial street. This, along with the massive sewer next to the southbound platform, are probably contributing to the enormous $119M ADA costs. QueensBlvdTransitway (talk) 21:55, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Interestingly, F-538 says "Note This stairway subject to change or omission" Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 22:33, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Now I am even more confused. A future mid-block exit on the north side of Lafayette Avenue west of the stair to Nostrand Avenue at the northeastern corner of the widened mezzanine area??? Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 21:56, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * You also have many stations with staircases inexplicably only to three corners. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 22:01, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * How they decided to save some money by not building some entrances and just provisioning them, I have no clue. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 22:04, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Walton SE at Flushing Ave now makes sense-many IND stations (Hoyt-Schermerhorn, West 4th, Spring, etc.) were designed with temporary entrances on empty lots that would be replaced with in-building entrances. Are those not provisions at Wallabout? They aren't mentioned as such in the diagrams. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 22:07, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Hmm. Mercer and the ones west of Broadway and the three staircases to the Mulberry mezzanine at Bwy-Laf are shown as slabbed. This section does say "Entrance not completed to street" for the Second Avenue playground one in F-565. Oh, wow, the east mezzanine at Second Avenue says "No entrances constructed". Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 22:22, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Suspected number of booths
An intersecting find from the contract drawings was that 46 St/QBL was never supposed to have a 47th Street entrance; the diagonal walls accommodated one change booth and its own mid-platform fare array; both platforms had a fence running the entire length that allowed passengers to enter from either exit and be equidistant from the change booth mid-platform, so each platform actually had *one* booth even though both exits were open! I presume this was to accommodate crowds from the MSG Bowl. This may artificially lower the number of “open booths” any of us find in articles on hathitrust. Just something to keep in mind! QueensBlvdTransitway (talk) 18:12, 12 April 2023 (UTC)


 * I wonder if this applies to IND stations with booths split into NXXX and NXXX-A (as 46th St is). This would imply that at least Northern Blvd and Myrtle Will had similar passages in the past. Mtattrain (talk) 05:50, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Myrtle Willougby had no fences and the contact specially required that the Willoughby exits be slabbed over from day one. Northern Blvd I’d have to check but likely wouldn’t have room for a fence and a mid-platform booth QueensBlvdTransitway (talk) 13:26, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Maybe I missed something, but am I correct in seeing no western exit at 155th Street?--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 18:13, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Correct, this was never planned. Almost all the platform stairs face toward the only exit at the east end, likely for the Polo Grounds crowds. QueensBlvdTransitway (talk) 18:20, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I should have trusted the available information before that instead of my gut, lol. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 18:26, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I might have to go back to the unopened article; it seems the Queens Plaza stairs were to a public comfort station at the street level (so it’s a quasi-entrance), unfortunately didn’t get the detailed drawings for that comfort station itself QueensBlvdTransitway (talk) 18:30, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Interesting. I noticed that at 87/CPW it says "future change booth", which is interesting. It shows it with two high wheel turnstiles. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 18:34, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * ^one high exit, one high entrance Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 18:34, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I am seeing many double-width intermediary stairs with no marks for future second stairs, interestingly. The SE corner entrance at 52/8th was moved into a building and flipped in the other direction at some point. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 18:57, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I found one you missed-there used to be a second stair at the SE corner of 50th/8th. The two stairs seem to have been consolidated into one when moved into the building. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 19:00, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I didn't realize there was a direct entrance to Madison Square Garden at the SW corner of 50th/8th. There is no street stair on that corner. The NW one got moved within the building line at some point. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 19:06, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * It says "To Madison Sq Garden and Street". There are shop windows and a door, and it appears to show another stair leading to street level through MSG. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 19:08, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * No booth at all interestingly at 71st. The Majestic entrance is "Door N.P.C." right? That doesn't seem to be in the building line. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 19:18, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * "Future passage to surface cars above" for the South Mezzanine at 59th??? Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 19:23, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * OOH. "Space provided for future controls", with a future passage to just north of the northeastern corner of Central Park South and Columbus Circle-from the north central mezzanine- Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 19:32, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * It leads to “present area” and there’s a wall separating the area. I interpret that to be a basement vault-like space beneath the sidewalk. Someone here also suggested there was a Majestic entrance so I put one and two together QueensBlvdTransitway (talk) 19:36, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The eastern corner Broadway/Houston entrances were rebuilt at some point when compared to the existing station layout. There also used to be two stairs to the NW corner of Lafayette and Houston. The eastern one was removed. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 19:52, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * And there used to be two stairs to the NW corner of Mulberry/Houston-both outside the building line. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 20:01, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Wow, no booths at 56th/Northern-just 2 HEETs and 1 HXT Manhattan-bound and 1 HEET and 2 HXTs Queens-bound. There are change booths at the closed 65th entrances-interestingly. Seeing the Upper Level Roosevelt station is surreal. It says "Shuttle Platform". Wow. The fare control area at Court Square is completely flipped-wow. I have seen multiple images of the Van Alst mezzanines-and it is wild. They must have been drunk designing it-it is so overbuilt. South 4th is wild. For NW Johnson/Union in F-504 it says "Stairs to be slabbed over at street." It may have never opened. Johnson NW isn't shown as a future entrance. The Upper Broadway Mez booth was not part of the contract. The S4/Meserole ones were slabbed from the start.
 * Wait, what??? From Hudson Terminal, a passage to/from Cortlandt Street BMT??? A stair to SW Vesey/Church, a stair within the building line at the NW corner of Fulton/Chambers. OOH, a future stair to NW Barclay/Church on F-502!!!
 * Future second stair to SE Spring/6th!!! Like I suspected, NE and SE Spring/6th, NW Van Dam/6th were temporary stairs with temporary enclosures that would have gone within buildings-both being within the building line. NW and SW Charlton/6th were also in the same boat. There is a future second stair at Prince Street and MacDougal Street, and a second at NW Charlton/6th. I feel stupid for not realizing there was a northern underpass.
 * Huh-NE W 3/6th is also temporary wooden. It says temporary stairways and superstructure or SE West 4th and Greenwich/6th. The NW West 4th is one of the dumbest designs I have ever seen. It unsurprisingly says temporary superstucture for SE Washington Place. These temporary ones occur where the streets were widened for the IND and where buildings were knocked down (6th Avenue extensions, Houston, Schermerhorn). They wanted them in buildings since they were doing them from scratch, and many of the temporary ones were never made permanent for some reason. The 9th Street passage is wild. Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 18:54, 24 April 2023 (UTC)