User talk:Khoikhoi/Archive 23

Stop your vandalism
Now you will tell me why you reverted all of this:. If you cannot give any arguments you will stop reverting it. I assume that you are not a Finn and are not familiar with the discussion about language politics of modern Finland?

The same with Pähkinäsaaren rauha. It was a treaty between Russia and Sweden, yeah, so what? It doesn't prevent the Finnish name from being even mentioned, does it? Especially since the treaty is important in Finnish history and concerns the territory of modern Finland, and the people living in the area, Finns, used the name of the treaty.

If you do not answer, I will complain about you. --Jaakko Sivonen 02:23, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

user:Vanitysmasher revealing personal info
I know it is bad form, but I am cross-posting from AN/I WP:AN/I, where I am concerned this may be missed:

An account was created less than an hour ago, User:Vanitysmasher, all of whose edits are directed towards attacking user:Halaqah by
 * 1) accusing him of conflict of interest editing
 * 2) revealing personal information
 * 3) adding Totally Disputed and Noncompliant tags to articles he has helped author

I am not an admin, and do not know what, if anything should be done, but the revealing personal info part concerns me.

Jd2718 03:02, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

That was fast! I have two questions: will user:Halaqah be notified of what transpired and will the edits remain visible in the history of the affected pages? Jd2718 03:25, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


 * And I e-mailed oversight with a list of difs I had created, so those will go, too, and I reverted them in the meantime, as Carcharoth advised me. Thanks for the help and the lessons. Jd2718 04:24, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Turkey
That guy is back you banned him like yesterday. Click Nareklm 07:12, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks! :) Nareklm 07:16, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * lol you speaking a little Armenian there? Nareklm 07:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah i understood im not sure what you speak though i think Azeri? Nareklm 07:20, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Yup but it means like no problem, youre welcome is like i donno lol Nareklm 07:24, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Sshh
I was going to tell you then realized you became an admin, you little snake. By the way, I keep getting anonymous e-mails accusing you of being anti-Turkish. Someone even found me on a forum, weird.--Doktor Gonzo 08:50, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Happy new years by the way.--Doktor Gonzo 08:51, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Flickr Images
Hey you know that website if i upload images from there to wikipedia commons is that acceptable even though there not mine? thanks for the help :-) Nareklm 09:08, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm im not too sure what that means, Would this do amazing picture ;-) City in Turkey Nareklm 09:19, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Also check out the arpacay river amazing site! poke here Nareklm 09:29, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * :'( Nareklm 09:45, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm i found one! :D Sevankank so i upload it to commons? )O_o Nareklm 12:49, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi, there!
Yep, it did. :-) Behemoth 10:19, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I could not get an allowance for a long time. Today is Kurban Bayramı so I have a day off in the city. Behemoth 10:24, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Internet is not available at the barracks. December was a very busy month for me. I was taught to use RPG-7. That's way I neglected to leave a message. Behemoth 10:37, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, I cannot forget this. They just don't let me. I hope to the end of January, it will end. İnşallah...Behemoth 10:44, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * What "sort of similar"? D'you mean a rocket launcher? Behemoth 10:56, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I feel that I wanna hear this... Behemoth 11:00, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I do have a gmail account. I don't know how to send you this (safely). Behemoth 11:10, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I guess you despise Internet safety. Once, my e-mail account password was cracked and some people sent my discussion groups porn pictures, etc. That's why I think I have to be cautious. Behemoth 11:18, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll do what you say. Ta ta for now, I have a rendezvous. Ciao! Behemoth 11:42, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Kandahar
Hi Khoikhoi. User:NisarKand keeps deleting neutrality, accuracy, and citation needed tags from the article, without any proper sources or discussions. He is also flooding the article with unsourced POV. Your help is once again needed! Tājik 16:21, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


 * User:Tajik is placing citation needed tags for no real reason other than to make the article look bad. When the sentence says that there is "speculation" about the name and that it "may" derive..... there is no need to place citation needed tag because it is telling you clearly that it is not sure. User:Tajik, your intentions are to make Kandahar article look as untrustful as possible and as bad as possible...by all possible ways. You're not here to contribute and help Wikipedia....all you do is delete other people's edits. You've deleted all my edits and you keep doing it...that is the act of vandalism. If I was an administrator, believe me, I would've banned you permanently from editing.--NisarKand 16:31, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Indonesia
Hello. I wonder if I could have your opinion on a particular dispute - maybe you could suggest what I should do next. I put up a message on WP:3O, but since more than two people are involved, I was told to take matters elsewhere. Since the nature of the dispute hasn't changed, I'll just repeat my 3O message here:


 * I've created templates for the presidents and vice presidents of Indonesia - Template:IndonesianPresidents and Template:IndonesianVPs. I inserted these, User:Indon removed them, I re-inserted them, whereupon stern warnings followed here on my talk page. The claim is that these are redundant and create needless clutter, since each page already has an infobox. However, nations whose Presidents or PMs have infoboxes and templates include the US, Canada, Mexico, India, Brazil, Japan, Romania, Germany, France, Italy, Australia, Poland, Ireland, South Africa, Iran, Venezuela, the Philippines, Nigeria, Liberia... So why not Indonesia? Biruitorul 19:21, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the advice - I will consider it. Biruitorul 03:41, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

User:SummerThunder and WP:VPM
After more block evasion I've extended the block on this user to indefinite - not as a community ban, only until he stops evading his block (a 4th or 5th or 6th temporary block would be ludicrous). I've suggested closing this irrelevant discussion/ranting about another wiki we have no jurisdiction over at Wikipedia talk:Village pump (miscellaneous), and would appreciate your thoughts. --Sam Blanning(talk) 00:05, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

First, Happy New Year! I've noticed your interest in Transnistria, and maybe you would like to vote in the survey on the inclusion in Tiraspol article of the images with the Soviet tank monument in Tiraspol and Transnistrian Government building in Tiraspol with statue of Lenin in front. The survey is here. Thank you, Dl.goe

Marc Lemire
Thanks for your help so far. Any further help you could give would be appreciated. There was a lot of good material in the site, but one big problem is that facts which are evident in reliable sources were sourced to completely absurd sources (message boards). It will take a bit of study to sort it all out.--Jimbo Wales 02:49, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * With respect, having looked at the sources provided, I was only to find one example (the first source for Marc Lemire's birth date) that was a message board. AnnieHall 03:36, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

image deleted on Marc Lemire
I deleted the image that you added there... like the other one that I deleted, it was uploaded by an "anonymous redshirt" of a name of "former user"... I have every reason to think that this image came from a banned user, and any claims to having permission to use it are highly questionable. We need to be seriously careful here to do a GOOD job.--Jimbo Wales 03:53, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I added a quote
If we keep slowly but surely going through the old article, restoring things that we can verify, this will probably be totally rebuilt but good in another 24 to 48 hours. Help me find people to help us? :) --Jimbo Wales 04:26, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

NYT / IHT article on the Chinese Wikipedia
Hi, and Happy New Year to you! =)

Here's my debunk of this article as promised:


 * Switch to Wikipedia in Chinese, and one discovers a very different man. There, Mao Zedong's reputation is unsullied by any mention of a death toll in the great purges of the 1950s and 1960s, or for what many historians call the greatest famine in human history.

This is pretty trickily phrased, because it is true that in the November 29 version of the Mao Zedong article, there was no numeric death toll given anywhere. However, to say that his reputation is unsullied is another matter altogether. In the November 29 version of that article, you see the following:


 * (in the intro): 他同時也是大躍進、文化大革命等一系列政治運動的發動者，使得很多大陸人民非正常死亡，對中國的文化古跡也造成了很大的破壞. He is also the instigator of a series of political movements like the Great Leap Forward, the Great Cultural Revolution, etc., causing the deaths of many people in the Mainland, and great damage to the cultural relics of China.

pidou is a Cultural Revolution term, which generally refers to public verbal and physical abuse and humiliation. di-fu-fan-huai-you is one of those pithy Communist acronyms referring to "landlords, wealthy peasants, reactionaries, bad members of society, and rightists".
 * (in the biography section): 1966年毛澤東發動文化大革命. 紅衛兵批鬥中共幹部、知識分子、地富反壞右，並展開大規模毀壞文物和書籍的「破四舊」運動. 劉少奇被批鬥並失去人身自由，遭迫害致死，鄧小平也遭免職. In 1966 Mao Zedong launched the Great Cultural Revolution. Red guards pidou'ed Communist cadres, the intelligentsia, and di-fu-fan-huai-you, and began a massive campaign of vandalizing and destroying artifacts and books known as the "Breaking the Four Olds".


 * (in "Mao and the intelligentsia): 1957年，毛澤東的知識分子觀呈現向下的趨勢，其間雖多次自我糾正，總的趨勢是向「左」的方向發展. 1957年的反右鬥爭，文革的1966年-1968年階段，是知識分子受迫害最為嚴重的時期. 文藝界有許多知名人士自殺，其中包括傅雷、老舍（也有人稱其是在批鬥中被打死老舍之死的兩種說法）等等. From 1957 onwards, Mao's view of the intelligentsia began to tend downwards. Although he corrected himself many times, the general trend was toward the "left". In the Anti-Rightist campaign of 1957 and the Cultural Revolution of 1966-68, intelligentsia suffered the worst oppression, and many famous people in culture and art committed suicide, including Fu Lei and Lao She (some also claim that Lao She was beaten to death during a pidou session).


 * 儘管毛澤東認為「革命」可以促使知識分子更加接近工人、農民等普通群眾的運動，但由毛澤東發動的文化大革命使得中國文化和中國知識分子經受了一次浩劫，不重視文化、漠視思想的現象也在文化革命中的部分人心中產生. 中國大陸大量知識分子在文化大革命中受到迫害，迫害致死者無數. 著名例子有作家老舍、劇作家田漢等人. Although Mao Zedong believed that "revolution" would cause the intelligentsia to be closer to the campaigns of workers, peasants, and other regular folk, the Great Cultural Revolution launched by Mao resulted in the undergoing of a catastrophe by Chinese culture and the Chinese intelligentsia; a lack of respect for culture and thought was created in the minds of some people during the Cultural Revolution. Many of the intelligentsia were oppressed during the Cultural Revolution, and countless numbers died as a result. Famous examples include author Lao She and playwright Tian Han.


 * (in ending commentary) 多數中國大陸民眾認為毛主政時期多年「左」傾政策尤其是文革給中國帶來巨大災難，中國文化和教育遭到破壞：大躍進和反右打壓了知識界正常的學術爭鳴，一些社科學科被取消；文化大革命中，很多國家領導人、幹部、知識分子等以及平民遭到了各種程度的迫害，大量的文物、古跡遭到毀壞. 一代中國人無法正常接受高等教育，造成了知識斷層，影響了中國後來的發展. Most mainland Chinese people think that during the many years of Mao's rule, his "left"-tending policies, especially the Cultural Revolution, caused great disasters to China, and damaged China's culture and education; the Great Leap Forward and Anti-Right movement oppressed normal scholarly disputation within academia, some social sciences were cancelled; during the Cultural Revolution, many national leaders, cadres, intelligentsia, and regular citizens were oppressed to various degrees, and a large number of cultural artifacts and historical sites were vandalized and destroyed. An entire generation of Chinese could not normally receive higher education, resulting in a fault line of knowledge, and affecting China's subsequent development.


 * 有觀點認為毛澤東因為害怕赫魯曉夫的"反個人崇拜"會在中國重演，才是他反對赫魯曉夫主因，從而導致了中蘇決裂. 而此事不單另中國失去了蘇聯援助，更惡化了中國周邊的地緣戰略，其一事例是以後的中越交惡. Some believe that Mao's was afraid that Khrushchev's "anti-personal cult" campaign would be repeated in China, and that this was his real reason for opposing Khrushchev, resulting in the Sino-Soviet split. Not only did this cause China to lose Soviet support, it also worsened China's geopolitcal situation, with one example being the Sino-Vietnamese War.


 * 有觀點認為三年困難時期是毛主導政策下的人禍. 毛澤東的政治掛帥和以階級鬥爭為綱的作法和不顧實際盲目趕超，打亂了中國的經濟發展，破壞了1950年代前期的良好發展勢頭. 在他主政時期，中國的經濟政策極不穩定，經濟發展常常被政治運動干擾，人民物質文化生活匱乏，落後於日本，1970年代後落後於亞洲四小龍. Some believe that the Three Years of Difficulties was a man-made disaster resulting from policies under the leadership of Mao. Mao's political leadership and his emphasis on class struggle, as well as a lack of regard for reality while blinding trying to play catch up, messed up China's economic development, and destroyed the positive economic trends of the early 1950's. During his rule, China's economic policies were very unstable, with economic development often influenced by political movements. The material life of people was scarce, falling behind Japan, and falling behind the Asian Tigers after the 1970's.


 * 一些反對者認為他是20世紀與希特勒、史達林並列的三大獨裁者，認為無產階級專政是「一黨專政」，也有人批評毛澤東是「一人專政」. 由此，一些自由派人士認為毛澤東與中國共產黨建立的政權是一個社會退步. Some opponents believe that he was one of the three dictators of the 20th century, together with Hitler and Stalin, they believe that proletarian dictatorship is "single-party rule", and some criticize Mao as "personal rule". As a result, some liberals believe that the regime created by Mao and the Chinese Communist Party is a backward step for society.


 * 許多人認為毛澤東雖然主持了1954年中華人民共和國憲法的制定，卻缺乏憲政觀念，封建帝王思想濃厚，阻礙了中國大陸社會的法制建設和民主改革，這是他晚年一系列錯誤的根源，也是大躍進、文化大革命失去控制，給國家造成深重災難的主要原因之一. Many believe that although Mao presided over the 1954 writing of the Constitution of the People's Republic of China, he lacked a concept of constitutional rule, and his Feudal / Imperial mindset was thick, thereby obstructing the building rule of law and democratic reform in Mainland Chinese society. This is the root cause of his mistakes later in life, and a major reason for the loss of control in the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, and the terrible disasters they caused to the nation as a result.

Okay. Weasel words? Yes, a lot. Featured article? Nope. GA? Hardly. Sources? Nowhere. Wishy-washy in some places? Sure. But "approved by the censors" as expressed in the IHT?

IHT:


 * But on sensitive questions of China's modern history or on hot-button issues, the Chinese version diverges so dramatically from its English counterpart that it sometimes reads as if it were approved by the censors themselves.

How would any one of the above paragraphs be approved by censors in Mainland China?

In any case, after the article came out, I added a numeric death toll (a vague one, but definitely in the ballpark). You can now find the following in the negative commentary section:


 * 有觀點認為，三年困難時期是毛主導政策下的人禍，並且導致了中國幾千萬人民的死亡. 毛澤東的政治掛帥和以階級鬥爭為綱的作法和不顧實際盲目趕超，打亂了中國的經濟發展，破壞了1950年代前期的良好發展勢頭. 在他主政時期，中國的經濟政策極不穩定，經濟發展常常被政治運動干擾，人民物質文化生活匱乏，落後於日本，1970年代後落後於亞洲四小龍. Some believe that the Three Years of Difficulties was a man-made disaster resulting from policies under the leadership of Mao, resulting in the deaths of tens of millions of people in China. Mao's political leadership and his emphasis on class struggle, as well as a lack of regard for reality while blinding trying to play catch up, messed up China's economic development, and destroyed the positive economic trends of the early 1950's. During his rule, China's economic policies were very unstable, with economic development often influenced by political movements. The material life of people was scarce, falling behind Japan, and falling behind the Asian Tigers after the 1970's.

This one is Mao. Next up is Taiwan. IHT:


 * Similarly, the English-language Wikipedia mentions the settlement of Taiwan by aborigines who are genetically related to Malaysians, about 4,000 years ago. It also places the first meaningful settlement of the island by Chinese in the 16th century.


 * The Chinese version of Wikipedia, though, merely speaks of cultural affinities with Malaysians and speculates about the possible exploration of the island by Chinese as far back as the third century.


 * A parallel, and purely homegrown, effort at creating an online encyclopedia in China, Baidu Baike, skirts controversies like these altogether. Baidu Baike, which is owned by the biggest Internet search engine company in China, asserts that Taiwan's original inhabitants "came from mainland China directly or indirectly," and not from Malaysia.

Okay, this is just pure boneheadedness deriving from an utter lack of knowledge about the history of the area.


 * Yes, Taiwanese aborigines and Malays (not Malaysians, Malaysia = country founded in 1963, Malay = ethnic group for hundreds of years) are both Austronesian peoples. However, Taiwan, not the Malay Archipelago, is the source of Austronesian peoples. Secondly, it is unknown whether proto-Austronesians came from mainland China to Taiwan, though it is mostly agreed that they did not came from the south (i.e. the Malay Archipelago), which was populated by Negritos. Hence, the comparison between the English Wikipedia, Chinese Wikipedia, and Baidu Baike about whether Taiwanese "came from Malaysia" is just utterly boneheaded. You might as well say that the Aztecs originally came from Brazil, and that the English Wikipedia doesn't have this, meaning that the US wants to take over Mexico.


 * Second, BOTH THE English and Chinese Wikipedias are clear that there are inconclusive records of Chinese visiting a certain island to the east in the 3rd century. Both the English and Chinese Wikipedias agree that first meaningful Chinese settlement and control in Taiwan was in the 16th century.

From the November 26 version of the History of Taiwan article:


 * 在中國史書當中，曾經有三國時期之孫權派兵到夷州的記載，有學者據此主張夷州即是今之台灣，但有學者主張目前的證據不足，並無法證明夷州就是台灣，也有學者認為是琉球群島.  In Chinese histories, there are records of Sun Quan sending troops to Yizhou during the Three Kingdoms period. Some scholars say that this Yizhou is Taiwan, but other scholars say that there is not enough evidence, and there is no way to prove that Yizhou is Taiwan. Some scholars believe that it was the Ryukyu Islands.


 * 在《隋書流求傳》則有這樣的記載：「流求國在海中，當建安郡東，水行五日而至. 」 此外，在《文獻通考》也可以找到以下的敘述：「琉求國在泉州之東，有島曰澎湖. 煙火相望，水行五日而至…」. 有學者主張隋朝的「流求國」或「琉求國」就是今日的台灣. In the Book of Sui - Records of Liuchiu [Ryukyu], it is recorded that "Liuchiu is in the sea, directly east of Jian'an Prefecture, and is reachable by 5 days of travel on water. In Wen Xian Tong Kao one can find the following description: "the country of Liuchiu is east of Quanzhou, with an island called Penghu. Fires can be seen [from shore?] and it is reachable by 5 days of travel on water." Some scholars claim that "the state of Liuchiu" during the Sui dynasty is modern day Taiwan.


 * 關於台灣何時成為中國版圖，史書上的記載： 《明史、列傳、外國》中，有記載「雞籠」：「雞籠山在彭湖嶼東北，故名北港，又名東番，……有十五社……老死不與鄰國往來……至萬曆末，紅毛番泊舟於此，因事耕鑿……稱台灣焉. 」此段記載在《明史》的外國列傳中，可知「東番」與「朝鮮」「安南」等，明朝均視之為外國，而非中國版圖. About the time when Taiwan became a part of China, in the History of Ming - Records - Foreign Countries, there is this record of "Keelung": "Keelung Mountain is in the north of Penghu Island, and is therefore called Beigang (northern port) as well as Dongfan (Eastern barbarian). ... there are fifteen villages ... there has been no contact with neighbouring nations. Near the end of the Wanli Era, red-haired barbarians arrived here by boat, and as they farmed and mined (?) ... they called the place Taiwan." This is recorded in the Records of Foreign Countries in the History of Ming, and we can see that "Dongfan" as well as "Joseon" (Korea), "Annam" (Vietnam), etc. were viewed as foreign countries during the Ming Dynasty (1368 - 1644), and not parts of China.


 * 此外，清朝，清世宗雍正皇帝說：「台灣地方，自古未屬中國，皇考（指康熙皇帝）聖略神威，取入版圖」（參：《大清世宗皇帝實錄》卷十），乾隆年間《重修福建臺灣府志》序言：「台灣……然自宋元以前不登經傳. 至明季而後，始有荷蘭屯聚……迨康熙癸未，始入版圖，改隸郡邑. 」，卷二又寫道：「台灣府，古荒服地，先是，未隸中國版圖. 」. 故由中國史書記載而知，台灣在清朝之前未屬中國，而在1684年（康熙二十三年）納入中國版圖. In addition, during the Qing Dynasty, the Yongzheng Emperor said, "The place of Taiwan has never been a part of China. The emperor before (Kangxi Emperor) had saintly strategy and godly power, and took it into our territory." (See Records of the Shizhong Emperor of the Great Qing, scroll ten.) During the Qianlong era, the Redone Almanac of Taiwan Prefecture, Fujian Province says in the introduction, "Taiwan.... was not seen in historical records before the Song and Yuan (1279-1368) Dynasties. It was during and after the Ming Dynasty that the Dutch arrived and settled ... it was in the year of Kuiwei in the Kangxi Era that it was first added to our territory and organized as prefectures and towns." In Scroll 2 it is written: "Taiwan Prefecture was barbarian lands and was never within the boundary of China." Thus we can see from Chinese historical records that Taiwan was never a part of China before the Qing Dynasty, and was added in 1684 (the 23rd year of the Kangxi Era).

If I ever see anything to that effect in a mainland Chinese book, I will totally eat my shoes. *

( * -- this promise does not apply to banned books in Mainland China, dissident books in Mainland China, or any other book that has trouble with censors; and loses effect upon democratization of mainland China, a resolution of the Taiwan situation, or some other unforeseeable circumstance =P )

But of course, the part that infuriated the most people were not comments about individual articles, but about the Chinese Wikipedia as a whole. IHT:


 * In each of its language versions, Wikipedia is collaboratively written and edited by online enthusiasts, and contributors to the Chinese-language site explain the differences in content by citing the powerful influence of Chinese education, which often provides a neatly sanitized national perspective on sensitive aspects of the country's past.


 * This parochialism is reinforced by the blocking of foreign Web sites, and by the conformism of the carefully censored mass media. Alternative viewpoints are sometimes available, but usually only to a restricted circle of people who have the means and determination to seek them out.

This is just ugly jumping to conclusions.

Firstly it utterly disregards the demographics of the Chinese Wikipedia. I remember seeing a statistic that 45% of visitors of the Chinese Wikipedia come from within mainland China, while 55% come from outside mainland China. This was before the block. I don't have stats from after the block. Maybe sysop numbers are better. In September 2005, 20 out of 54 sysops (37%) were from Mainland China. Today, 29 out of 86 sysops (34%) are from Mainland China.

Secondly, it utterly disrespects the ability of Mainland Chinese to circumvent governmental control of information and think for themselves. I'm not going to name names, but I know of at least one Mainland Chinese sysop who for the longest time used a crossed-out hammer and sickle as a part of his signature. And I should add that both SummerThunder and Uponsnow, our recently made friends on the Village Pump, are presumably Mainland Chinese based on their use of Simplified Chinese characters.


 * On the evidence of entries like this, for the moment, the fight over editorial direction of Wikipedia in Chinese is being won by enthusiasts who practice self-censorship.


 * "Most of the people who contribute to Wikipedia rarely touch upon political topics," said Yuan Mingli, a frequent contributor from Shanghai. "They prefer to write about things like technology. There are other things in life."


 * Others denounce compromises on content as a deviation from the original mission of Wikipedia, which they say is to spread reliable information and to seek truth. In any case, they add, self- censorship has already proved naïve because the government still frequently blocks access for most Chinese Internet users.

It is true that some have wondered aloud whether to practice self-censorship on the Chinese Wikipedia to get the block on us lifted. These ideas have always, always been shot down. We have never agreed to any such policy. That quote of Yuan Mingli, which is somehow intended to buttress the IHT's assertion, simply adds insult to injury, because Yuan Mingli probably never even intended his quote to be used in this way.

I don't think the IHT is aware of the indignation that came out of the Chinese Wikipedia after the government blocked us, and the fury Chinese Wikipedians have towards Baidu Baike for collaborating and then getting ahead of the Chinese Wikipedia. I believe that some Mainland Chinese Wikipedians had unrealistic expectations of the mainland Chinese government, i.e. "If we hold on to NPOV, they have no legal basis to challenge us." Well, guess what? They did. You don't need a legal basis to do things in Mainland China.

At one point, a group of Chinese Wikipedians attacked and eventually hacked into a Baidu-Baike-like, self-censoring Wikipedia clone, and forced it to shut down. (Of course, the Chinese Wikipedian community condemned the hacking of other websites, but this is to give an idea of the kind of fury involved here.)

Another example was the Chinese Wikinews. Before the block, there were one bajillion and one votes on the Chinese Wikipedia on the opening of Chinese Wikinews. The con side focused on one single point: We don't want to get blocked, do we? Let's not annoy the government. So the Chinese Wikinews was stalled, constantly. After the block, there was one vote. It passed, pretty much unanimously, and the Chinese Wikinews was created. Was there a con camp going, We want to get unblocked, right, so let's not annoy the government further? Nope. People were disillusioned. If they wanna screw us, then we'll screw them. I apologize for my French.


 * (edit: this is the vote history for creation of the Chinese Wikinews.


 * Initial launch; gathering of contributors :


 * 17 people interested.


 * October 2004 vote :


 * 9 - for; 12 - against.


 * Special Feburary 2005 vote on WHO should decide to launch the Chinese Wikinews :


 * 22 - launch now; 4 - global vote; 22 - Chinese community vote.


 * April 2005 vote :


 * 13 - for; 13 - against; 1 - for with self-censorship. *


 * October 19, 2005 --- blocked.


 * February 2006 vote :


 * 39 - for; 1 - against; 1 - neutral.


 * -- I'd like to call attention to this vote. 13 people believed that we should press ahead, government schmovernment; 1 person believed that we should press ahead, and please the government; and 13 believed that no Wikinews is better than a self-censored Wikinews. And we are supposed to be self-censoring Wikipedia?)

In short, to say that the Chinese Wikipedia somehow collaborates with or panders to the government, that touches a nerve. Everyone already feels victimized, they don't need another kick in the face.

-- ran (talk) 05:47, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Azerbaijan (Iran)
Khoikhoi, you have to understand that the terms "north" and "south" were invented in Azerbaijan SSR for political reasons of seperating our land from Iran. The terms "north" and "south" Azerbaijan have no historical basis, they are only half a century old! They are not geographically in anyway as Grandmaster suggests. Do I need to remind you about the TIME quote regarding Wikipedia: "Wikipedia is an encyclopedia based on consensus rather than fact". Lets try to end this!Azerbaijani 07:52, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Semi-Protection
You know, I just took time to read the plate. This user talk page is currently semi-protected to... yada-yada. Please discuss changes on the talk page, or request unprotection. Huh. Maybe, I need to start a user talk:Illythr/Talk page talk page to discuss my talk page with newbies... :-D I guess you can kill the plaque. And the protection too, of course.
 * And Happy New Year, BTW! :-)
 * Oh. --Illythr 15:43, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, every minute Boni spends vandalizing my talk page, the Mainspace remains safe from his nefarious influence. :-)
 * Whoah, about twenty edits! Perhaps by openly stating that you're an Epsilonist Rouge admin will make them realize their folly? :-)
 * "Можно" deals with asking or granting permission for something, its general meaning is close to "OK". The line is a little play on imperialist Russians, who expect everyone to be able to speak Russian (a bit obsolete). I tried to translate it on my Ru userpage for English chauvinists as well (not obsolete ;-) ), but it doesn't sound as good as the original. --Illythr 11:41, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

User:Monkeydan101799
Hey Khoikhoi can you block this user for at least 24 hours he vandalized 3 times and i think he will again. Monkeydan101799 Contributions Nareklm 17:40, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Nareklm 02:52, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Marc Lemire and Warren Kinsella
I addressed the concern regarding Mr. Warman on the talkpage of the Lemire article. I think that I provide evidence enough to confirm he is a reliable source of information. One concern that I do have concerns Veritas-Canada's claim that Kinsella is a "known liar" give V-C's claims the original article libeled Lemire despite documentation suggesting otherwise. Is not calling Kinsella a known liar without providing objective evidence to support that claim libel? As such I personally don't give V-C's claims much credit right now. AnnieHall 19:19, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

User harrasment
User:Vanitysmasher whom you block is continuing to attack me on wikipedia, this user is also User:Osirica, i am a valid contributer here and this user has been not only attacking my contributions but has a record of attacking other editors whoese politics they disagree with, my contributions are clear and i am a popular editor on wikipedia, halaqah is a very popular arabic name for forum, almost like saying scott free another editor is scott free the production compaany (because he likes scott frees films) i have added people and topics to wikipedia across the board, further more everything i have added can be checked as valid. i have created many pages on wikipedia and have worked on many projects, nothing i have added is in dispute or cannot be verified, these kinds of people are destruptive and is angry that he was banned under user osirica.--HalaTruth(ሀላካሕ) 21:06, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

many thanks, he will return but in differnt form, i think i was part of his banning and because my "politics" make me a target he is using it to get others to discredit me. or try to discredit me and my contributions.--HalaTruth(ሀላካሕ) 21:37, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Ardahan
Hello - I wanted to point out that the links section of the Ardahan article is again being edited without discussion and repeatedly reverted. Can you again step in and share your thoughts? Thanks! --RaffiKojian 23:50, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Also please see this . In his edit summaries he called me racist and left a note on WP AM's talk page by saying "A Turk is removing links repeatedly". Content dispute is one thing, but this is another. Funny that he acts all cool when he comes to your talk page. He clearly says in his edit summaries that the article is being "vandalized" by a "Turk" who is probably "racist".Baristarim 04:45, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "rv vandalism - there is no "official links" only policy, therefore your action is vandalism and I suspect racist in motivation despite the other link also being removed." Does this really constitute as a personal attack he was directly saying it to your edit. Nareklm 05:01, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi Kholkhoi, I think we have a good agreement on the Ardahan article to proceed with. Please unprotect it.  Thanks!  --RaffiKojian 18:53, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Admin
I see the Admin list on your User page so I assume you are an admin. I also notice that you are involved in several pages I am involved in. Can you look at this guys edits? User Bm79. He continuously vandalizes pages and makes POV edits and removes information, and lots of other things. Please talk to him or something.Azerbaijani 00:50, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Yep
Happy new year to you too, and thanks for the kind words. I suppose you are right about the spelling (I couldn't really say it is or isn't so, since I don't speak any Hungarian). I had only checked with sources that did not use any or any proper diacritics for the Hungarian name, and had to guess it. Feel fre to make any change you consider necessary. Dahn 03:09, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * My main difficulty in languages with different sets of diacritics is that, if I can get to memorize what they may stand for, I cannot really know how much pronounciation is "allowed" to vary (for example, if I were to know that the a in Rozvany[i] is closer to an a than it is to an o, I would know that it needs the sign - but, as a complete stranger to Hungarian, I could not have told if Rozvany[i] is a widespread version). Same for the diacritics in Jeno. About the y vs yi, I have no clue (though I'm guessing my sources went by ear). So, I encourage you and others to correct me in every such instance. Oh, and many, many thanks for the vote on the FAC page. Dahn 03:30, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Open proxies
For open proxies it is usually best to block for some very long period of time, such as 3 years or 5 years. Except for commercial or otherwise established proxy services, these IPs are not likely to continue to be open proxies for more than a few months even, and blocking indefinitely will end up just blocking innocent users or another admin will need to spend time investigating and unblocking. —Centrx→talk &bull; 03:23, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry about that, I suppose I'll block for 6 months from now on. By the way, when they stop being open proxies, what do they become? Khoikhoi 03:25, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I've been blocking for 3 years, unless I have some special reason from port scanning, etc. to think it should be shorter (e.g. exploited server) or longer (established anonymous proxy service). I think 6 months would be too short in most situations, 3 years is just a 'long time' weakly approaching infinity. An IP may no longer be an open proxy after the IP itself has been re-assigned to a different person or company. While most open proxies are not dynamic IPs, such as with home computer users, they will eventually be re-assigned either to a separate computer within a company or to a new individual or company—that will then find themselves to be banned from Wikipedia if they try to edit. Even blocking an IP for 10 years would be better than indefinite with our current system, though it would (almost) always be longer than necessary, so that an admin does not eventually need to unblock it. Some computers, also, are exploited servers, so that when the company wipes and re-installs or replaces their servers it will be gone, and the anonymous tor network is like an open proxy and for the purposes of Wikipedia equivalent to an open proxy, but is relatively dynamic; tor nodes are usually blocked for a month. —Centrx→talk &bull; 06:29, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks from HighInBC
Thanks for reverting the vandalism on my user talk page. It seems someone resents not being allowed to advertise here. HighInBC (Need help? Ask me) 03:37, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Azerbaijan (Iran)
So what if they are Iranian sources? Should we go to every article that uses English sources and say "according to English sources....". This is evident bias. A source is a source, and those terms are politically motivated and they are very very incorrect.Azerbaijani 04:06, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * How do you know the sources are biased?Azerbaijani 04:10, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I will search, but to let you know, Iranians are mostly defending their history, westerners dont care much. Like you mentioned, our current government doesnt care and is making enemies with the whole world, therefore, countries with good relations with the west influence western preception of history in their own favor. You cannot and should not dismiss Iranian sources, because most of the time they are the only ones that are reliable in cases like this. Our government doesnt care at all and many projects that were formerly funded by the Iranian government during the shah's time have now been abandoned and have only been able to continue through donations from the Iranian community in the west. Its really sad.Azerbaijani 04:21, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Could you please watch him by the way incase he continues to keep making his POV edits. Also, the issue with Turkmen that he is talking about is also his POV, he doesnt seem to understand that there are Turkmen tribes in Iran also. Everything he says and does is based on his POV. He is obviously not Iranian, please do not let him fool you. He doesnt know the simplist facts about Iran, like the fact that there are Turkmens in Iran and on top of that, there are Turkmen tribes in Iraq too!Azerbaijani 04:51, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

SP
Hey, I think the semi-protection of your talk page may be confusing new users. Granted, there's a note right at the top of this page, but judging from how often people fail to sign their posts on my talk page, notes at the top of the page don't get read too often! Maybe you should make it bigger and shinier. I also noticed that WP:SPP suggests leaving your talk page un-SP'd as much as possible. Anyway, what you do about it is up to you, I just figured I'd give you the heads up. Peace, delldot | talk 06:42, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Archive index
Hi, I have been working on a bot, User:HighInBCBot. It indexes archives. I have used your archive set as part of my test, you may be interested in the results: User talk:Khoikhoi/Archive index. HighInBC (Need help? Ask me) 06:59, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Re:Scuttle
Thanks, works for me. &mdash;siro&chi;o 07:03, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Re ...FYI
Hi Khoikhoi,
 * ''The infobox at Turkish people is all screwed up now...do you know how to fix it? Khoikhoi 06:58, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Sigh... It's becoming ever more evident to me that Infobox Ethnic group's layout and formatting needs a major overhaul if not rewrite... Unfortunately User:Estavisti reverted my latest efforts without indicating the problem/s he encountered (cf here) so two possibilities re Turkish people jump to mind: either unrevert Estavisti's reversion, or undo (revert) my attempt to tabulate the population information in Turkish people. Please implement whichever action you believe is least likely to fail (!)

There seems to be two types of template shoe-horned into the one current Infobox Ethnic group: those carrying detailed breakdowns of populations (for which I'd say the current Infobox Ethnic group is unsuited) and those without (i.e. each parameter only one or two lines in length, without tabular information). At present, I'd say Infobox Ethnic group caters for the latter before the (more complex) former, whereas it ought to cater for the more complex first, in which the latter then becomes a simple instantiation. (Hope all that makes some sense...) Therefore, crazy thought I must be, I volunteer (with deep breath!) to try redesigning Infobox Ethnic group...

Yours straightjacketly, David (talk) 07:15, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Minor question
If an editor is using one book, one author in an entire article what grounds do i have to oppose this? It is a very broad topic and i feel it a POV to use 70% of the references from a source which is very controversial (in some opinions), what policy protect against this kind of over quoting?--HalaTruth(ሀላካሕ) 10:00, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Skopje Airport
There has been a move war with User:Macedonia at Skopje Airport and the talkpages are messed up. Do you think you could put it right at the original location (the airport has not yet renamed - check their website). //Dirak 14:05, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello Again
I am reporting this user, Elnurso, for his continuous vandalism and removal of information that he does not like on the Azerbaijan and Kasravi pages. Please look into it.Azerbaijani 16:54, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * User Grandmaster has just blanked out the whole section on the Azerbaijan article. I think Elnurso and Grandmaster may be the same people. But its shocking, because Grandmaster hasnt done such a thing, and I see from the history that the section has been up a long time and he didnt do this kind of thing before, but all of a sudden he starts vandalizing it... Something is suspicious here. Please warn him. There is already a tag up anyway. Also, look at his contributions. He has the nerve to warn other people about removing sourced information yet he comes to the Azerbaijan article AND BLANKS OUT AN ENTIRE SECTION!Azerbaijani 19:21, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Reverted edits on Kabyle language
Why did you revert my edits to Kabyle language???


 * If you speak French, here are some sources:

  and Languages of Algeria.


 * Yes, the first one is the Université Laval, Canada's oldest university, and North America's first Francophone University, and the second one is INALCO: the Institut national des langues et civilisations orientales and the last one is a Wikipedia article, related to the Kabyle one, if all these sources aren't enought for you, I just don't know, and I returned the article to my version. -- Escondites talk 20:41, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * For example? -- Escondites talk 20:41, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Honestly, 3 millions are just too low, over 1/4 of Algeria's population speak Kabyle, according to most sources of the 21st century, and with a population of 32.3 million people... -- Escondites talk 20:46, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, If you think that you can remove about 35%-40% of the languages' speakers because of this... I'm pretty sure the rest of the people here in Wikipedia wouldn't agree. -- Escondites talk 20:51, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Alright, give a range. -- Escondites talk 20:54, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Protective action
Hi, I notice that you have blocked the anon 165.228.131.12. Please also consider the user FabulousRain as this appears to be the same editor, judging by the incoming links created to the page Chinese Singers (which I have deliberately not linked here). The latter editor has just removed the protection from a sensitive page. Fayenatic london 23:01, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, I've put in a request at WP:RFCU. Thanks. Fayenatic london 09:45, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Update: Case now listed. Fayenatic london 14:00, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi Khoikhoi, the RFCU case has been archived now. I'm confused; what was that supposed to achieve?  I thought someone was going to trace the IP used and confirm whether they were the same, and if so apply some sort of further sanction. However, nothing new appears on either of the user's talk pages. Fayenatic london 14:19, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I see, thanks. Yes, I suggest that a block is in order on the sock.  The anon also seems to need at least another warning after further vandalism yesterday, see  (already reverted but no warning left). Deleting that particular section certainly calls the editor's motives into question.  Fayenatic london 08:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That editor really doesn't want people to know about protective software... As Aarontay pointed out, it's free, so the deleted links are not spam as the anon stated in one of his edit summaries. Fayenatic london 21:19, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Spamming
Please look at the contribs of User:Armandeh and User:Naconkantari. They have removed all links on WP to WikIran and accuse me and Zereshk of spamming. They have no leg to stand on. Can we take this issue to Jimbo? Even alot of WP articles now include content from WikIran, like Rafsanjani. Khodavand 23:32, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Reported vandalism from a user: user:Nisarkand
Hi khoikhoi. Sorry to bother you but there is an issue I wanted to bring to your attention. The user Nisarkand today made a change today without any discussion on the Afghanistan article and made his thoughts and intentions very clear on his edit's comment. Please take a look at this: [].

His thought process is right there. Apparently he thinks someone is a loser so he thinks that is enough for him to remove them from this encyclopedia. But ofcoarse, the real reason he removed that picture is not because he thought he was a looser, it is actually because (in my opinion) he is a Pashtun nationalist. I have suspected this for a while now, and now it has become fairly obvious to me, and this latest edit nails the coffin on that suspicion. He thinks the Afghanistan article should only have pictures of Pashtuns, a clear form of ethno-nationalism (a POV). Since you are an Administrator, please try to either tell him to stop his POVs or to simply ban him from some articles (mainly Afghanistan and History of Afghanistan, whichever you think is best. Thanks a lot khoikhoi! Parsiwan 23:57, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

What the hell?
What the heck is your problem? I have contributed once reverting one change and I became an involved party??? My revertion was justified by something which has become a guideline on Wikipedia, about geographic locations name convention which Grandmaster was well aware of, since just like me he got involved with it. I had no idea of the rest of the contents, neither the revert wars going on, I just have seen that Grandmaster revert contained the name of the place in Azeris language, which is not justified by name conventions. He could have very well readded the rest of the reverted stuff, but he made a total revert including the change which is against that specific guideline. A guideline which I thought that even Grandmaster agreed on. Fad (ix) 00:56, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It is amasing how you've changed since you have become an administrator. I don't appreciate you taking such an authorative tone. No, reverting someone in an article which I have never edited neither written in the talkpage can hardly be considered as getting involved. You claim having tried to resolve the issue, but I wasn't even there, as an administrator you should be able to know who are involved in a dispute before adding their name without their consultation. But this is history, since I am now involved thanks to you. Fad (ix) 08:23, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * And you don't need to add empty reply either. Fad (ix) 04:42, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * My reply followed your inclusion, and you know it. I am now a part of the conflict, by your inclusion and Grandmaster adding my name in his correspondance with another Admin, with assumptions about the reasons of my one single revert. So, I was finally dragged in the conflict, so your adding of my name in the list is now valid, but I won't sign my name on it. Because after verifying, I don't see you having mediated, so no trial of dispute resolution. You should have commented and proposed, not just saying what the problem is and leaving others dumping their materials in, and finally requesting mediation. This was in my opinion a wrong decision, there are articles with more obvious disputes which don't end up with a formal mediation. Anyway, this won't last long, as Grandmaster and Dacy69 are mixing a town and a province. A town which existed after the fall of the province. Fad (ix) 04:51, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi KhoiKhoi
Oh great God grant me:). I need some advice on a couple of pictures that were inserted this morning into Gonagala massacre. The current situation is a delicate one. The author is currently only letting me copy-edit and reword the article.

A second editor came this morning and there was almost a revert war until the first user realized the second user was trying to help (which he did immensely). However, the second user also inserted 4 pictures of bodies into the article. I've talked him down to two. Unfortunately, I believe these are copyrighted images - or at least one of them is.

I just want an experienced person to look at them and tell me if that's the case, or should they should come down altogether. I'll explain it to them as best I can and take them down myself if what I believe is correct. It's a small thing, but a big painful subject. Feel free also to shoot me towards another competent and active admin that you trust. Nina Odell 02:37, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Situation is being handled. No worries. Nina Odell 17:23, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Signpost updated for January 2nd, 2007.
You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot 07:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Pontic language
Greetings and happy new year. Will you unlock the article in order to move it to "Pontic Greek language"? Miskin 09:35, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Leonte Tismăneanu and Vladimir Tismăneanu
Would you please watchlist Leonte Tismăneanu and Vladimir Tismăneanu: an obstinate user keeps pushing POV in both, and uses unacceptable material as his "sources" (I have rendered the disputed content in English, on the respective talk pages). A lot of libel is floating around in there, and the user is currently accusing me of all sorts of things. The spirit and letter of wiki policies are breached, and it would be good if you to expressed an opinion on the respective talk pages. Dahn 16:02, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Dahn 06:29, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Barack Obama
Copied from my posting to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection and also copied to Talk:Barack Obama:

"I request that the current semi-protection tag be changed to the less obtrusive and removed after an appropriate timeout interval. I believe that any move to establish permanent semi-protection is premature and preemptive for this article. I have previously expressed this view on the article's talk page, where no consensus has yet emerged on the issue. While it is true that some IP edits have been needlesome, they are manageable because the article is closely watched by a global audience. Reverts have been made by many editors, including some with IP addresses. Blatant vandalism is usually corrected within minutes and at all hours of the day. I have been an active contributor to the article since September 2006. Though I appreciate that there are others who may define the role of semi-protection differently, I have reviewed the policy documents and I think my view is more to the mainstream of the current thinking. Kindly consider my request. --HailFire 15:27, 3 January 2007 (UTC)"


 * (posted on User talk:HailFire): I don't think that is what HailFire was saying - he was asking that the tag be changed to sprot2 which I did, and that the semiprot not be permanent, which it is not. His last note on my talk page  asked that we follow Robdurbar's suggestion, which was for a 2-3 week semiprot to see if things calm down, as the recent 8-day block wasn't enough. Although my sense is that we may need longer than that, I am happy to agree to this timeframe, and we'll take it from there afterward.  So please do not unprotect at this time.  Thanks.  Tvoz | talk 05:08, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Baklava
Someone reverted my edit aren't we allowed to use the fact template even though there are references below? Baklava Nareklm 20:28, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * And please read this im outraged about this sentence its not well documented but its... "The history of baklava, like that of many other foods, is not well documented. Though it has been claimed by many ethnic groups, the best evidence is that it is ultimately of Central Asian Turkic origin" theres not enough references and baklava is Assyrian as much as it is of Turkic origin since there are no sources for those except alleged books he needs more references and i will remove it its very inaccurate. Nareklm 20:31, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * So he added a reference but i did not see anywhere in the book on Google where it shows it is "ultimately of central Asian and Turkic origin" Nareklm 09:43, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well it says turks but no central asian orgin etc. Nareklm 09:55, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Also i have books on Google that say its Greek origin how will we fix this than? Nareklm 09:55, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Nakhichevan
Could you please unprotect this article? -- Clevelander 23:02, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

An observation regarding User:Armandeh
Hi Khoikhoi.

For the sake of record keeping, I'd like to mention that User:Armandeh who initiated all this anti-WikIran campaign, posted the following: on my user talk page.

Note the title "Wi‌‌‌‌kIR‌‌an" that he uses, which is in Fingilish. The way he's spelled it (with the spacing), it literally translates to: "we fuck them" or "we fuck it". "kir" is a highly derogatory term in Persian meaning "cock" or "dick". When used as a verb, such as here, (e.g. "kir zadan"), it means fucking someone or something while inflicting pain.

These battles for AfD and RfC and deletion have all become so greatly discouraging to the intention of WP. In the next chat that you have with Ocee, Daniel Bryant, Naconkantari, Eagle_101, Nilfanion, et al, please ask them: With abusive admins like Hesam Armandeh, would you really prefer to have wikipedia as an archive of talk pages filled with battles? Or would you prefer to side with non-admin users whose contributions have enhanced the site's actual content? They can check my edits since I joined in 2004. I can safely claim that I and a select very few others wrote or started 75% (if not more) of the entire content of all articles on WP pertaining to Iran. Is bullying out WP's top 1% of editors (in terms of content contribution) becoming a norm? Why do I have to keep putting up with petty quarrels from people like User:Armandeh--Zereshk 23:49, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Elnurso
He is continually taking out sourced information. Thats vandalism. Lets base things on fact rather than consensus for a change.Azerbaijani 04:47, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry. Maybe I'm misinformed about vandalism. So what is it when a person removes sourced information? How do I combat it. Is it Wiki policy to negotiate with any such person who decides to come on and continuously remove information they dont like until they get what they want?Azerbaijani 15:03, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * What is there to talk about? Neither Grandmaster nor Elnurso brought up any evidence to contradict anything? Elnurso has tried to distort a quote which Grandmaster himself put in. Also, Grandmaster just says that the sources are unreliable, but as Ali himself also said on the talk page, the sources are very reliable. Dr. Farrokh and Dr. Atabaki are no joke. They are serious and well know historians in the field of Iranian history. Dr. Farrokh is himself an Osset-Azerbaijani. Grandmaster just throws out sources saying they are "unreliable" with no evidence. Khoikhoi, can you not see the obvious POV that Grandmaster and Elnurso have? They dont even have the facts to back up their claims of these sources being unreliable. Furthermore, I even posted an letter to the UN by an Armenian delegate regarding the Nargo-Kharabak conflict. Within that letter, it clearly says that the name Azerbaijan was adopted for the Caucasus region in order to seperate my land (Iranian Azerbaijan) from my country (Iran).Azerbaijani 17:36, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Regarding what you said about attributing sources: No. Why should we have to attribute our sources just because they are Iranian? That is biased if you ask me. Do we do that with English sources? Just because some one, out of nowhere, doesnt like a piece of information and starts attacking the source without anything to back him, doesnt mean that we have to give in to their demands. What if I start going around removing information and just say "the source is not reliable". Do I have the credibility to say whether a source is reliable or not?Azerbaijani 16:58, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Khoikhoi, look, again they are still removing the information, even after it was shortened by Mardavich and made neutral! See, what I have been saying all along is correct, they dont want a compromise, they just do not want that information in the article becuase they do not like it. I hope you can stop their POV editing.Azerbaijani 17:03, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Elnurso just created another account after being blocked just so he can edit war: .Azerbaijani 17:20, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Ethnic group
Hi Khoikhoi,
 * ''...I have seen your efforts on the template and I thank you for that. Hopefully Estavisti can give you some suggestions on how to improve it, but I have another suggestion: you come up with different designs for the infobox, and then post them on the talk page. The version that gets the most support can then be implemented. What do you think? Khoikhoi 04:13, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your encouragement – see what you make of this! Best wishes, David Kernow (talk) 12:09, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

The Bat!
Hello! At the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bat%21 the user User:85.178.126.29 has deleted your note

'The text in this section is from SilverStones.com, used with permission.''

Do you think that this deletion is justified?

--Maxim Masiutin 15:41, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

History of Pakistan
This page is again "protected" with Indian propaganda. We have been trying remove controversal Indian perspecive from these Pakistani pages. You have "protetedt" the page with Indian propaganda. The Pakistani contributors have so far refrained from History of India. But the Indian have been virulenty changing text on Pakistani pages with thier propaganda. It would request you to consider your decision. I would prefer it to be protected with Pakistani version of our history. Siddiqui 03:56, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Warning
Do not write on my talk page in any language other than english. I'll remove it. Don't use your imagination power either. Read assuming good faith again and again. Hessam 08:52, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Personal Attack
See the first example here: WP:PA and see this and show me you good faith please. Hessam 10:31, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

More personal-attacks and vandalizm by User:NisarKand
Khoikhoi, please see this recent comment by NIsarKand:. It's a reply on the Talk:Afghanistan page to User:Tombseye. I think it is really time for you to react ... this is your job as an admin. And he has also once again started to write racist stuff, and he claims that such racist comments are based on historical docuemnts (for example, he claims that Babur considered the Tajiks "dogs", and that this is the reason why he vandalized my talk page: ).

He is really vandalizing (he removes entire sourced passages without any reason, he removes tags without discussion, etc etc etc) Afghanistan-related pages with garbage, and he says himself that he does not accept any sources - not even reliable ones - if these sources contradict his own made-up POV ... he believes that he "was born with extra knowledge" (see the comment to Tombseye):


 * "... I don't have time to read your lame sources ..."

Please also have a look at this comment to the Encyclopaedia Iranica and Prof. D. Balland (whom NisarKan considers an "idiot" without even having read his articles).

Your help is needed. If you do not want to help, please let me know so I can contact another admin. Thx.

Tājik 12:06, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Return of the Greek/Turkish placenames issue
Hi, I'm having a discussion with Politis at Talk:Kalymnos about a way out of the old placenames impasse, based on Naming conventions (geographic names) (which has been updated and promoted to actual guideline since last time I looked). Thought you might like to comment before people rush into applying changes on a wide basis. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:46, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Jalil Mohammad Gholizadeh
Hi! Please be advised on the current "mild" revert wars on this page. The person was born to an Iranian family from Khoy. He also lived and worked in Iran. And also according to Ebrahim Nabavi (a wellknown Iranian Azeri satirist) he was a proud Iranian. However some wikipedians may feel uncomfortable to call him Iranian-Azerbaijani. They also do not want to accept that his name have been spelled in various forms. His named spelled in some Iranian and also Azerbaijani articles like this:Jalil Gholizadeh Some thing that is clear by a simple google search. Please help! Thanks alot in advance. Sangak 15:46, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Already solved sorry for the inconvenience. Sangak 19:54, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Block
You can block User talk:209.104.230.34 now, he replaced the page on the computer mouse with, do you want a fanta?.--Rasillon 16:16, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Armenia
Khoi, could you unprotect the Armenian article? -- Clevelander 00:33, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * There is currently no active discussion on the article's status on the talk page. It was closed for edit-warring and its continued closure is hampering development of the article. Basically, I really just want to help further improve the article, but this seemingly never-ending closure is preventing me (and other editors I'm sure) from doing so. -- Clevelander 00:37, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, you're most likely right about that, but could you unprotect it temporarily and allow me to make at least some changes (e.g. adding the new map and some new images that I've uploaded)? I assure you, they have nothing to do with the current edit war. -- Clevelander 00:42, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

knock it yourself
As long as this idiot slap his rhetoric of Armenian this and Armenian that, he'll be answered in kind as it is the only language he understand. I am an Armenian, and I am offended by his prejudicial comments and as long as you refuse to understand that and close your eyes, I will ignore your answer. Had such a parasit been ejaculating on public in the Holocaust article he would have been ArbComed a long time ago. It is so sweat to the ears to hear Armenian propaganda, again another Armenian, Armenian this or Armenian that in every answer than having that replaced by the word Jewish. Also, it will be nice that you give any single example of positive contribution by that parasit. But I won't expect you to ask him to behave, since as long as he doesn't attack a Wikipedian, he could continue his racistic rhetoric. Fad (ix) 04:47, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey
Happy new year, my friend:). and nice to see u back as well. Hectorian 12:11, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * You gave me the wrong link, but i figured out that u reverted back:). I think it is OK, since it is called by modern scholars both Eastern Roman and Byzantine, and, apart from some ignorants, noone disputes the Empire's Greek character... So, fine by me. Hectorian 00:04, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Btw, could u please unprotect my user as well as talk page? i forgot them semiprotected since the times of the "ΕΥΠ-accusation" vandalisms. LOL:) Hectorian 00:45, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks:). revert if my page gets vandalised again and u are online... and block the IPs till he gets tired:p Hectorian 00:58, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Türkiye Portalı
Merhaba geçenlerde Türkiye Portalını seçkin portallara aday gösterdim Wikipedia:Featured portal candidates/Portal:Turkey/archive1. Fakat bir Vikiproje Türkiye üyesi dışında kimse oy kullanmadı. Gelen karşıt oylarla kabul edilmemiş oldu. Lütfen oyunuzu kullanın.--Absar 12:21, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

yo
Im a noob with wiki. Could you make my page protected. I dont want other users to be able to edit my page unless I want it. Also thx for making my page look good hahah :D (Barakus 14:11, 6 January 2007 (UTC))

Mediation needed
Khoi, could you mediate this conflict between Grandmaster and I? Thanks! -- Clevelander 14:46, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: Ip vandal
I know, I left the message and I relised you weren't here, so I went through to WP:AIV and reported it, sorted in a second. :)--Rasillon 16:27, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Vandal IP 209.183.138.82
Hi Khoikhoi, can you please block the anonimous vandal IP 209.183.138.82? He vandalized Romanian Revolution of 1989, I reverted him and he vandalized again. Thanks--MariusM 18:39, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks like he passed his last warning here. Could you please block him. TSO1D 00:25, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Reply
Hi.. I am sorry for the late reply. I am also a bit stressed out since we were just slugging it out somewhere else :) That's why I kinda headdived into the diaspora article. As for Sinan, u might be right. Maybe we can simply leave the category for people of the Ottoman Empire. I don't think I will revert. It is true that those kind of cats can be problematic... Otherwise, how are you doing? I still have to get back to you for the circumflex and Kuştul Monastery, don't I? Work is piling up, I don't know what to do!!! Baristarim 01:26, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Re:
Thanks so its saying its disgraceful to remove them lol? not sure, well i always remove that particular users because he asks something from me but when i ask it back to him he is disrespectful he always messages me and wants me to tell mods about the Mitanni myths, he also floods my page and telling me if I'm there i just find that annoying, thanks but i wasn't clear on the quote but it seems as though i do? Nareklm 01:36, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Can you please ban this user? he keeps on messaging me after i told him 50 times not too he knows nothing about history which he thinks the Sumerian's, urartu, akkadians are Armenians because of words which has nothing to do with history this was discussed along time ago by historians meaning names can serve no specific evidence unless such artifacts are recovered this user is driving me crazy!. I even tried to talk to him on his talk page but he still messages me its getting old and he knows basically nothing about history which i wouldn't say i have a professional level only basics or average. Nareklm 03:37, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

More vulgarity from Hessam
Please see this edit - Hessam still uses the attack that Zereshk talks about above. This is not the Wikipedia way and is disgusting behavior for an admin. Khodavand 10:10, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It's completely different from previous imaginations! What is the problem with this form again?!?! Did you find another pinglish word inside?! Hessam 10:36, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I also have to say that these vulgar comments and the confrontational behavior from Hessam is making me very uncomfortable and making it difficult to edit peacefully. Khodavand 10:19, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Please stop reverting edits in Mehmed II !
Dear friend. I would like to draw your attention to the following: "The term Byzantine Empire was never used during the Empire's lifetime. The Empire's native Greek name was Ρωμανία, Rōmania, or Βασιλεία Ρωμαίων, Basileia Rōmaiōn, a direct translation of the Latin name of the Roman Empire, Imperium Romanorum. The descriptor Byzantine was introduced in western Europe in 1557, derived from Byzantium, the earlier name of Constantinople, by German historian Hieronymus Wolf about a century after the fall of Constantinople. Hieronymus had taken it from the writing of 15th century Byzantine historian Laonicus Chalcocondyles. He presented a system of Byzantine historiography in his work Corpus Historiae Byzantinae, in order to "distinguish ancient Roman from medieval Greek history without drawing attention to their ancient predecessors".

The term 'Byzantine' was introduced in the English-speaking world by Sir George Finlay in 1851, in his History of Greece, from its Conquest by the Crusaders to its Conquest by the Turks." (from "Byzantine Empire" article).

So what conclusion to draw? Mehmed II conquered the Eastern Roman Empire, not the so-called Byzatine Empire. Please stop reverting my edits thereon.


 * Thank you for your prompt reply. You say " Eastern Roman Empire already redirects to Byzantine Empire, so if you have a problem with the title, please propose to have it renamed". You're right about the term being redirected to the Byzantine Empire. However, it is quite obvious that the Byzantine Empire article discredits its own title. Whatever; I will propose such amendment.Syuksel 20:33, 7 January 2007 (UTC)syuksel

Re: Nakhichevan
It's about this exclave of Nakhichevan called Karki which is completely surrounded and currently controlled by Armenia. During the Karabakh war, the area of Sadarak in nothern Nakhichevan was shelled by Armenian forces and Karki was subsequently taken. Armenians contend that Azerbaijani forces were shelling villages in Armenia for months prior to the attack. The Azeris claim that the attack was totally unprovoked and was a clear case of Armenian aggression. This is where the dispute comes in.

Grandmaster believes that the attack was unprovoked and uses the Human Rights Watch, K. Weisbrode, and Michael P. Croissant as his references. However, all these sources only state that there were Armenian attacks but neglect to confirm if they were indeed unprovoked or not. It is hard to ascertain what happened as no outside or independent sources were present in the area when the incident occured. As the Nakhichevan article stands now, it uses HRW to confirm that the Armenians started the attack, thus supporting the Azerbaijani point of view. I suggested that the information instead be presented as so:


 * ''Nakhichevan became a scene of conflict during the Nagorno-Karabakh War. On May 4, Armenian forces attacked the area's Sadarak rayon by shelling.   The Armenians claimed that the attack was in response to cross-border shellings of Armenian villages by Azeri forces from Nakhichevan.   David Zadoyan, a 42-year-old Armenian physicist and mayor of the region said that the Armenians lost patience after months of firing by the Azeris. "If they were sitting on our hilltops and harassing us with gunfire, what do you think our response should be?" he asked. The government of Nakhichevan denied these charges and instead asserted that the Armenian assault was unprovoked and specfically targeted the city of Sadarak, the site of a bridge between Turkey and Nakhichevan.


 * The heaviest fighting took place on May 18, when the Armenians had captured the Nakhichevan's exclave of Karki, a tiny territory through which Armenia's main North-South highway passes. The exclave presently remains under Armenian control.  After the fall of Shusha, the Mütallibov government of Azerbaijan accused Armenia of moving to take the whole of Nakhichevan (a claim that was denied by Armenian government officials). However, Heydar Aliyev declared a unilateral ceasefire on May 23 and sought to conclude a separate peace with Armenia. Armenian President Levon Ter-Petrossian expressed his willingness to sign a cooperation treaty with Nakhichevan to end the fighting and subsequently a cease-fire was agreed upon.  -- Clevelander 22:21, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * That’s not accurate. HRW accuses the Armenian side of starting the fighting:


 * The hostilities broke out around May 4 when three people were killed in the first Armenian attack on Nakhichevan, and have escalated subsequently. The heaviest fighting there took place on May 18 when it is reported that Armenian forces captured the hills surrounding the town of Sadarak using rockets and shells, allegedly leaving as many as twenty Azerbaijanis dead and 120 injured. Armenian authorities have denied any official Armenian involvement, maintaining that the Armenian advances are being perpetrated by irregulars.


 * It is a thrid party source, and it's opinion should not be ignored, considering that it is the only source that actually investigated the situation. Grandmaster 07:29, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * That doesn't mean anything. The HRW report neglects to confirm if the attack was unprovoked or not and it lacks details (they don't even mention the Armenian claims).  There were no independent reporters in the region at the time, therefore no fully accurate information on the conflict can be ascertained.  There are only Armenian claims and Azeri claims. -- Clevelander 11:36, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Re:
Hi aeropagitica, can you please explain why his/her username is inappropriate? Khoikhoi 23:15, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The username is very close to Persian Poet Gal, as reported on WP:AIV. It is a softblock, so the user can register a new identity, if required. (aeropagitica) 23:30, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Blocks
Could you be more descriptive in your summaries than this. There was no talk page and it is harder for people to come to the same conclusions you did in the future. Thanks, Cbrown1023 01:07, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Hurriyet link
Yes you are right, I reread the changes before they are saved and try to have seperate lists of words to modify, but it must have slipped in there. I also click on ignore weblinks and images so I don't know what happened there Baristarim 06:40, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Request for Feedback
Hello, I am trying to improve the article Hamparsum Limonciyan. I made a request for feedback Requests_for_feedback. Any pointers you might have as to what the article needs would be appreciated. --Free smyrnan 08:51, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Many thanks! I will put in sections. Best regards, --Free smyrnan 06:15, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism again
They are putting Hay-satan where it says Haystan our land's name. Please protect the site or revert those edits. Thanks. Ararat arev 18:56, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah it was fixed a while ago. Thanks. Ararat arev 06:27, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Reverting map change on Sweden
That was entirely uncalled for, especially as I had just posted a message on the talk page urging people to cease revert warring. I don't want to get into that, so could you please self-revert the map back to the original one (the one you reverted away), and post your opinions on the talk page? Jobjörn (Talk ° contribs) 22:38, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi
Hey, can you take a look at a dispute that just developed? User:KazakhPol is insisting that he adds "Terrorism in Kazakhstan cats to Grey Wolves, PKK and some other organizations. He left nearly ten messages to other people about it. He had also created a template Terrorism in Kazakhstan template that I just TfDed. He is insisting on removing my warnings about 3RR and posts to his talk page and insistently accusing me of I don't know what. Can you take a look at the articles, my and his talk pages and the TfD? Baristarim 02:59, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The above user means TfD'd. I have not accused this user of anything except misinterpretation and unfamiliarity with Wikipedia's policies. He/She appears to be very new, so I am bearing with his/her incivility, but my patience is seriously trying, KazakhPol 03:02, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Check user histories, I was here before you were, and I have much more edits than you do :)) Baristarim 03:11, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Can you just keep an eye on this ? Unfortunately I suspect WP:POINT here. In any case, talk pages are where these should be ironed out. Sorry to bother you btw.. Cheers! Baristarim 04:16, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Terrorism in Kazakhstan
There is no category on Designated terrorist organizations in Kazakhstan. Not a bad idea though... KazakhPol 05:31, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Signpost updated for January 8th, 2007.
You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot 06:51, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Turkish Cypriots; nationality and continent
They told me you are interested about nationality issues. I have a big problem with user:Saguamundi. Not only he puts the Turkish Cypriots under category:Turkish people but he also put their politicians under Asian politicians, claiming that it's because they have descent from Asia !!!! I have every day to revert his lot edits about Turkish Cypriots. Since he doesn't understand, can you talk him a bit and making a report for him? KRBN 15:10, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I sent you a present
No, it's not "link spam". It looks to be a hotel room performance by Richard Thompson on acoustic 12 string guitar. My Mother sent me an even better one that I'll send some time that, if it doesn't bring tears to your eyes, you are officially dead. Keep up the "good fight", KhoiKhoi.

I have no idea what you're doing (I removed you from my watchlist to focus on my own work for now), but I know it's a good thing. I'm reminded of our almost-gone "best generation" when I think of you. Nursing homes are no places for them, on a side note. They should all be sitting in rocking chairs with their feet propped up telling these young bucks about the last good war.

I'm removing you from my watchlist right after I post this. Whenever you're down, KhoiKhoi, feel free to post or email me. Even if you're plain tired, think of me. I'm just the "advance party" of even better days for Wikipedia. If you look around a bit, it's already happening. The "good" will always outweigh the "bad" here. In truth, even the "bad" is "good". Sincerely, NinaOdell | Talk 14:41, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Ararat_arev
Hey, this guy just reverted some six times on Armenia and is spamming my talk page along with several other users talk pages. I thought that after a while his behaviour will change but it's been consistent since the day he registered here with no foreseeable prospects of improvement.--  Ευπάτωρ   Talk!! 19:18, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Your 3RR block of User:A Link to the Past
Hi. I happened across your 3-day block of User:A Link to the Past on the 3RR board, based on his edits to the admin conduct RfC against User:InShaneee. As I'm sure you know, this is a long-running situation involving prior blocks, the RfC, stated intentions to bring an arbitration case, discussions on ANI, etc. I think this is very likely going to be a disputed block and it might save some time and drama if you outlined your rationale for the block and its length on the userpage. Regards, Newyorkbrad 01:40, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I replied to your response on my page (sorry for not copying it here, but I'm out of town for the day using a lousy hotel computer and it's a mess to do that). Anyway, I see you've amplified on his page. Regards, Newyorkbrad 02:23, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Marshal Bagramyan
Hey there, the article Hovhannes Baghramian spells his last name with the -ian suffix (is that what its called?) which most Western Armenians use instead of the -yan ending which is more correct for Armenians from Armenia itself. Can you change the name of the page since Hovhannes Baghramyan redirects it to the aforementioned page? Most articles on Western Armenians are spelled like that (i.e. Monte Melkonian) whereas those from Armenia proper or Russia (Eastern Armenians in general) are spelled the other way. Small issue with little to none complaints, but its just so we remain consistent. Thanks, --MarshallBagramyan 01:45, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Strange Edits...
Hello Khoikhoi, this user has created fake userpages of indefinitely blocked sockpuppets of MascotGuy. Seems a tad suspicious to me. Mind checking it out? Thanks.¤~Persian Poet Gal (talk) 03:50, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Found another one for you...¤~Persian Poet Gal (talk) 04:05, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Terror categories
What I'm thinking right now is that for the vast majority of these local terror orgs, if I can find which ones are banned where in Central Asia, I'll probably be able to put them in just Category:Terrorism in Central Asia since the Shanghai Cooperation Organization mandates that its members outlaw certain organizations as terrorist orgs and 4/5 of the CA Republics are in the SCO. KazakhPol 06:34, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Normally it would, but this isnt user labeling. I am going only by what governments and the media have called them. Wikipedia stays neutral in calling them terror orgs by referring to their participants as "members" of the "banned terrorist organization." KazakhPol 16:24, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: Nakhichevan
No, I think that if we use a quote from an Armenian (Zadoyan) and an Azeri (which we don't have yet), then we'll be fine. I don't want to use the HRW quote again, because then we'll be back to sqaure one. -- Clevelander 11:46, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Rica Ediyorum, Atatürk High School of Science, Istanbul DEGIL dogrusu Ataturk High School of Science, Istanbul
Tekrar ediyorum. Bu sekilde davranmaya devam ederseniz sikayet yoluna gidecegim. Onganer 14:06, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: Turkish Cypriots
To stop reverting the Turkish Cypriots articles and puting them into Turkish people category, like Turkish journalists etc. and to stop putting their politicians under asian politicians stub KRBN 18:21, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Azerbaijan
Hey man can you lock this for now? A edit war has started maybe for a few days will cool down tensions thanks. Nareklm 00:23, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Nareklm 00:27, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * How convenient for Nareklm, who reverted sourced information without giving a reason. While I don't agree that there is an "edit war", the restoration of this sourced information, as well as the link improvements(Median goes to Medes, etc.), will occur even after "a few days".  I hope you will not stand by Nareklm's reasonless revert of sourced information.  The Behnam 00:32, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Please take your edits to the talk page before making such inaccurate edits. Nareklm 00:34, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

User:Hectorian/Timeline of Modern Greek History
Hello Khoikhoi:). I would appreciate it if u could take a look when u have the time at my new subpage. it is not complete yet, and may need to be neutralised at some points, before i make it an article. comments will be welcomed Hectorian 00:56, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for moving that comment from my userpage. I will include some more info in that subpage of mine, and then i will make it an article; hope it won't create any problems... And, yes, i think it is about time for me to archive again! for u too, btw:) Hectorian 15:51, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Need help
Hi Khoikhoi I am writing an article on the treatment of Shia Muslims in Arab countries. I am not sure how to make a new article with this title situation of Shia Muslims in Arab countries. Your help will be much appreciated. Let me know if I may be any help in any issue like the Paytarakan or .. --alidoostzadeh 03:51, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Sounds Good! I have prepared a portion of it and will work on it.  --alidoostzadeh 21:39, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Armandeh again
Please tell him to stop following me around and removing my edits to the noticeboard. he also accuses me of votestacking on the AfD for Articles for deletion/US Democratic Party-Iranian fundraising controversy. This boy has problems - he is not an admin here and should not be acting like he is and giving commands and orders like a dictator. Khodavand 12:27, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Ataturk High School of Science, Istanbul
Please write you argument on why you moved the article "Ataturk High School of Science, Istanbul" on the talk page. Onganer 14:09, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I also replied there, so there is not much new to add. However feel free to take a look Khoikhoi :) Baristarim 16:00, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Protecting "Azerbaijan" Freezing Biased POV
Dear Khoikhoi,

I just discovered that you put protection on the page named Azerbaijan. I know, that the protected page is not the one that is being endosed as it is declared in wikipedia rules. However, the protected version includes a paragraph that is being endorsed by few against the will of the majority as can be seen in the realted talk page. At the same time, it is a paragraph that overwhelmingly relies on pan-Iranian and Armenian sources, which are by definition biased vis-a-vis Azerbaijan at the current time. Could you please at least remove this paragraph, which is the main source of contention? I am not asking for replacing it with a version that majority agrees upon, I am just asking for its removal so that the protected version does not reflect neither sides opinion. Plase consider. Thank you!

Here is the paragraph:

"With the collapse of Tsarist Russia in 1917, the Musavat ("Equality") Turkic Federalist Party, which had pan Turkic elements within it[4][5], met in Tbilisi on May 27, 1918 to create their own state, which they named Azerbaijan. According to some sources, the name Azerbaijan was adopted in order to claim north western Iran.[6][7] The Bolsheviks re-conquered the Caucasus and kept the name Azerbaijan, in hopes of later adding north western Iran into the Soviet Union.[8][9] Mohammad Amin Rasulzade, the leader of Musavat party, later admitted a mistake in choosing the name Azerbaijan for the state, saying that Albania (referring to Caucasian Azerbaijan) was different than Azerbaijan (referring to Iranian Azerbaijan). Rasulzade Also declared his eagerness to do "whatever is in his power to avoid any further discontent among Iranians".[10]"

Elnurso 20:22, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I second that request. A letter from Armenia's UN representative to the UN, arguing Armenia's side in the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, is one of the "some sources".  To use a statement of an enemy country(who was writing about a point of conflict) is a very biased approach to describing an entire country; it is like using tons of Islamist sources to describe USA, and then just calling them "some sources".  "Some sources" is much too innocent of a term.  Other dubious sources, such as a random banknote site, and pan-Iranist articles, are dominating on the page.  I think that these controversial ideas should only be on the History of the name Azerbaijan, with a one-line introduction leading to this link, such as "The naming of Azerbaijan is a heavily disputed topic", and then a lead to the link.  With the controversial and uncertain nature of this issue, it seems wrongly disparaging for this one-sided presentation to be on the main page for the entire nation of Azerbaijan.  As there is already an article devoted to the topic, the allegations serve no positive purpose on the main page, but only cause strife and a neutrality tag.  I recommend you unlock the page and allow work to be done against the POV currently dominating some parts of the page.  The Behnam 01:16, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I understand your worry about the edit-warring. The fact is that I have brought up, on the talk page, my Atropates edit, and even notified Nareklm about this, but he has not responded.  My guess is that he is satisfied with the way the article is now, since his rv happened last, but I don't know how I can discuss anything if nobody else joins the discussion.  Have any advice for this kind of situation?  The Behnam 06:35, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll give that a try. Thanks for the help.  The Behnam 06:39, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Wheel War
No, I didn't realize that. Thanks for letting me know! :) User:Zoe|(talk) 03:06, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

New Page
Honestly, I dont know. I mean it is reality that their are Syriac Orthodox in Northern Europe that refuse to be identifed as Assyrian, and I have acknowledged that in the Assyrians in the Netherlands page. I mean, this is one community, they all live in the same area. They all go to the same churches, its just that some call themselves Aramean and some Assyrian. But I dont know to tell you the truth about the merging. Chaldean 04:13, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


 * And the title would be? Chaldean 06:07, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Go ahead. Thanks for your interest and work. Chaldean 06:10, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Do you see this sentence - Almost all Arameans in the Netherlands belong to the Syriac Orthodox church of Antioch from Arameans of the Netherlands. This sentence is indicating that that article is only talking about those who call themselves Aramean in Holland - a small, maybe at most 50% of the population. Because their is a sizeable ACOE and Chaldean Catholic presence their as well. Plus not to mention at least half of Syriac Orthodox consider themselves Assyrian in Holland, but anyways.. Chaldean 06:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the simele massacre page has turned out really nice. I dug really deep and did some long research about the topic. Just wished I could complete the map, but I just couldn't see all the villages. Oh well. Chaldean 06:15, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Khoi, 50% of Syriac Orthodox Church. Thats like 25% of the total Syriac Christians in Holland. The Chaldaen page is another one. I mean we can merge it with the Assyrian in the United States, still use the term "Chaldean" when describing the migration. Theirs nothing wrong with that. Its a different situation with Chaldeans, when being compared with Arameans - Chaldeans in US, dont completly deny Assyrian identity like Arameans. Chaldean 06:21, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, he lives in Europe, he would've been exellent for this. I'm guessing he would probably suggest the title be Syriac Christians in Holland. The article I posted Assyrians in the Netherlands, was written by a Syriac Orthodox lady in Holland that I exchnged email conversation with. Chaldean 06:26, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

User:82.77.7.239
Translation of the message received here: "You stink from far away. One can tell you are a stinking kike. Never mind, there's a place in front for you at the next holocaust you regurgitated thing you! You'll leave this message [on your page], as it is not maculature! You altered shit! I would make soap out of you, but you kike meat is stinking and unsuitable for soap!" This is perhaps the time to call admin's attention to the fact that this person and his acolytes roam free and untouched on Romanian wikipedia, and that they have authored hundreds of articles with demeaning and strongly anti-semitic content. Dahn 18:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That person also uses this IP, and I suspect he is also User:Daos. It is entirely possible that all of them are avatars of ro:Utilizator:Dacodava. Dahn 19:11, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, man. Dahn 09:46, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Re
No, apparently not. While the correct way of pronouncing his name is Bagh-ramyan, most, if not all, books and journals writing it without the H, hence Bagramyan. So we might as well change it to that.--MarshallBagramyan 18:18, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I think Hovhannes Bagramyan is the right way to go.--MarshallBagramyan 07:20, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

User:Ararat arev
This user has broken the 3RR rule in at least three different articles please see Haik for the latest ones this should be a block right? thanks. Also considering he has been warned by Baristarim also me and other people he continues to spread his theory on the so-called armenian origins claiming that Armenians are Sumerian's and Aryans he ignores everything thank you. Nareklm 21:34, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "blocked "Ararat arev (contribs)" with an expiry time of 24 hours (3RR violation at Proto-Armenian language)" but when you replied on his page you said 31 hours. Nareklm 22:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Yup i thought something was wrong but i think 1 week would be justified. Nareklm 22:47, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well i mean man he violated it on several different articles in one day and he knows about this since Bairtism warned him before and considering Interiot has blocked me for a week before for uploading copyvios and he uploads alot of violations he doesn't care. Nareklm 22:50, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That's true, and all those images on his pages are violations i can list them all. Well your right better than no block :-D Nareklm 22:54, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Ill report them in a while ;-) Nareklm 22:58, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Eupator and Nareklm keep removing factual info
These guys Eupator and Nareklm keep removing info I put in the Haik page which is factual. For example in the Armenian translation of the Bible, where it says Orion in English it's "Haik" in Armenian version of the Bible. Haya is also the Sumerian word Ararat arev 21:44, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

They cant keep reverting those info, thats vandalism. Haya you can look up in google.com its not taken from one site, which most probably they will tell you that its taken from armenianhighland.com. Its not just there, this is Sumerian history any site you see about Sumerian history "Haya" is there, which is exactly at Haik's time. Ararat arev 21:45, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Some other pages I even put sources from New York Academy of Sciences even, and they remove without discussing or giving a good reason. They just keep putting "Rvv" "Rvv" "Rvv" "Rvv" over and over and over. Thats vandalism. Ararat arev 02:51, 13 January 2007 (UTC)